1 BIÓLOGO X 25 VEGANOS | FT. RICHARD RASMUSSEN

You were accused of misbehaving You accused me of not being able to discuss what you're saying

I can't discuss it because I was indisciplined That's a lie he said You come with your personal offense I'm going to study your life and I'm going to find a lot of holes If you're going to offend me I get up and leave

No, it's not science of Richard, it's science of most people

who disagree with you

So if this is not suffering, what is suffering? Let's improve this, this condition

Yeah?

Woo! Woo!

If the slaughter was so calm, why don't you post on your Instagram

how is the slaughter of an animal?

I hope you bring a better discussion than your accusation

You're the one who's the most racist

You're the one who thinks you're the only one

No, wait, I'm still talking

I'm gonna fuck you up

You brought me here, I came from the fucking house to come here, I was slaughtered.

What happened to the dog there? Ear there? It was a horrible thing. It's very different from a slap.

Humanize the animals and treat the pets in a way that is excessively humanized. It brings problems.

It brings psychological problems.

Like a biologist, who is in favor of life, right? That biology is basically that.

You have to choose which animals you kill.

How many days does she spend immobilized, lying down? How many days does she spend?

You don't talk because you're aggressive. So, no, you're not, because you go by people. If I found out your life, I would have things to talk about you. Have you ever been in a slaughterhouse? foreign foreign I'm not asking her. No, it's not. Why don't you sit down? She will sit down. You don't sit down. Can I speak or not?

Or only you speak? I want to know your name. Give me your name, since you have a number. Because we must have a number.

Yes, it's a scientific concept.

This is what you want.

You said you're not a scientist.

Now you want to don't know what. All you do is raise a paper. There is only ox because someone eats the ox.

Or you have the ox as pet in your house.

You have some ethical basis to do the things you want.

Yes.

Right? For example, you don't eat dogs.

No, I don't know, the ox doesn't exist. Are you a student of the circus? I am, I have a master's degree. I am too.

He's a drug dealer.

Do you know anyone better to argue with?

He's a drug dealer.

Please, please, bring someone better.

I saw it in your video.

So you saw my video, so you don't understand my video. I have a lot of problems. It's for you, but not for me. Who cares about most of the candidates in the field? And the risk people are taking today is to die from coronary diseases or cancer. No, the risk we have today is to get shot when you go out on the street. Well, I'm Richard Rasmussen, I'm a biologist, I'm an economist, I'm a journalist, I've been on TV for 25 years, doing environmental programs,

and lately, with the internet, in the last 7 years, I've opened my range talking about other subjects. Today I came to debate about veganism and... pet peeve too? On RedCat.

May God help me. Treating animals as human beings is a form of mistreatment.

Good evening, Richard. I'm Paula. Nice to meet you. First, Richard, I'd like to understand this statement as problematic. Because I think we didn't understand. We even talked like this, but we didn't understand why she's problematic.

Actually, it was suggested here. It's an affirmation that I already have, that I've said a few times. It's not a problem. It's a fact.

Or what does she have to do with veganism, for example?

No, nothing.

Nothing, right?

Nothing, but since she's a pet's father, too, you know? Ah, I got it. It was a dance like... It's not only veganism. Are you a pet's father? Yes. Ok, wonderful. Pet's mother, pet's father, whatever.

Pet's mother.

Uh-huh.

Ok, all right.

All right, right? Because...

Do you disagree with what I said?

No, because...

It's a good thing we won the first battle.

Yeah, we started well, right? We started well. we, who are vegans, don't have the slightest intention to make a big defense about this issue that the animal needs to wear clothes and celebrate the birthday. There are several ways to humanize the animal, and I think that each one, inside their home, will do it in a different way.

From the moment that each person considers himself the animal of the family, somehow, you are humanizing a little bit. There are people who humanize a little bit, and there are people who humanize a lot. In our case, veganism intrinsically has nothing to do with this. About humanizing or not humanizing the pet. But this question has moved me because of the expression of mistreatment.

And, inevitably, as a vegan, I will bring your questions, which we see in the news. They are not accusations that I am making, but we see in the news.

Let's go to the staff, is that it?

It's not staff. It's not staff, it's your job.

No, we're debating the subject. You don't think, you disagree with me, that the fact is, you're going to start to become something else. You're going to start looking at me and listening to me. It's typical of the subject. We're not debating the subject. We're talking about animal abuse.

No, we're talking about...

Since the beginning I told you not to attack personally.

Richard, but that's your job. These are accusations based on your job. When we see a news saying that you went there to wake up Jacaré and Bernardo, and that you were accused of mistreatment for that.

And I was released.

I think that this is more mistreatment than making a dog's birthday.

So, let's go. I'll explain what happened in Pantanal, for your delight. I went to Pantanal, and everyone was worried about this painting. I spent two years with a project called Brasil Biomas. Where we took not only a veterinary clinic, because one of the things I did to be in my place of speech, because otherwise it would be very easy to be where I am,

I invested in well-being. The only veterinary hospital in four wheels of Brazil is mine. It's not a trailer, it's not something, no. It's a veterinary hospital worth 1 million reais. Me and four other sponsors built it to be able to attend. We took it to the fire. I stayed there for two years.

Do you know Pantanal?

No.

Oh, ok.

It's a little hard to explain how the alligators live there.

Because the alligators... I don't know Pantanal, I can't talk about a bad news. For example, there's another news of animal trafficking accusations, of you having taken animals to... in the news... taken animals illegally to the breeder. You are taking this discussion to something else.

You have no ability to discuss the subject.

Of course I have, dear.

And you are taking it to personal offense.

What does this have to do with...

Even if I were a trafficker. Come on, even if I were a trafficker.

Ok, let's say I'm a trafficker. I'm a trafficker. It's mistreatment. I'm a trafficker. Look, wild animals, for example, let's talk about mother and father of pets. How many biologists we see, not only biologists, but people who understand.

You have no conditions to discuss the subject.

Being mother and father of pets. You have no conditions to discuss the subject. You lost the objective of your... She is a mother and father of wild animals. Is he a drug addict? Please, bring someone better. Bring someone better, because this girl has no conditions. This girl?

She's not a girl, she's a girl. She has no conditions. Let's bring someone better, let's take the level of the discussion. Can I talk about the accusations? No, you can, but the problem is that you don't take it. I'm taking it, so let's say I was.

I'm a criminal, I'm a criminal accuser. of a crime charge Go there, daughter Go there I don't know your life I don't know your life

I don't know your life

You could be my daughter when you were older Let me talk Let's start well I hope you bring a better discussion than just the charge Because even if I were What she told me I am

What I wasn't

It's a public mystery Let me speak or not Or only you speak Only she speaks, There is no regulation? Because only she speaks, she already sat on the bench, she has to be quiet. Is that it? Isn't that it? No, there is no public mystery.

I went to the CNB, I've been there. What you said about the alligator, it was a complaint that was made. Anyone can report anything. I can report you because you have pink hair and I think you don't know what. especially for a public person. Especially for a public person. It's very easy to do that. I've been here for 30 years. But if that's your point, then I shouldn't be here.

I should be in my place to say, this has to go. So why did you come to argue? Why did you come to argue?

The fact is this.

The fact is this.

I saw all the people I don't have an explanation for the... The fact is... The alligator. I saw all the people saving the alligator, worried about the jaguar. And on the way to the jaguar, I'll say it again, I know Pantanal, I've been going there since I was 4 years old, we built a veterinary hospital, I spent 2 years in the fire. I was there, 2 years in the fire, I was there, two years in the middle of the fire, recording the things that were happening.

And horrible things were happening in the fire. There has never been a time in Pantanal so dry and with so much fire. And the jaguar suffered so much, the jaguars were burned, they were taken to rescue centers, they were cared for. And everyone forgot about the alligator on the way to the jaguars. There were dead, dry alligators, nobody cared about them. I went there with my team, I had a hospital, I had veterinarians,

and we took those alligators out of that condition, we gave them serum and returned them to another place. And then, there was exactly this position, I was accused at the CRIBIO, at the CRIBIO they thought that my attitude was consistent with my profession. So much so that the following year, the following year,

ICNBIO moved the largest shark rescue operation in the country's history in the Pantanal. I think I poked a jaguar with a short stick, literally. So that's what happened. Now, I think we have a agenda. If you want to take your accusations, you can stay. The newspaper is there, you can take it.

Now, if you want to talk about the subject that Paula...

Paula?

That Paula couldn't discuss, we won't get anywhere. It doesn't matter... Let's say I'm a drug dealer, that I'm... That it's not true, but the discussion is about the subject of mistreatment, about PET. So you accused me that I can't discuss it. What are you saying that I can't discuss the subject?

Because I was indiciated. You have to discuss the subject, if it's mistreatment or not. And you didn't know how to answer the question. I hope there's someone better to discuss. Your family was very bad. You were very bad, Paula. Very bad. Let's wait for a better person than you.

How are you? All right?

Hello, I'm Rodrigo. Rodrigo, nice to meet you. Are you a pet's father?

I am.

You're a pet's father. Ok, because I think... What is a pet's father? That's what I wanted to ask you. Let's define it first to understand. I have pets, I don't know if that means... I have many pets. It would be my same question for you.

Because there is a humanization, treating with respect, treating an animal well, it doesn't mean humanizing, it means civilization, right? It means you recognize that it is sentient, recognize that it is a animal worthy of right. So, we agree with that. Treating the animal well because it's a rightful animal. That's Pet's father.

Perfect. We agree with that. And then, going back to... There was a misunderstanding here, a lack of intelligence. I think there's a misassociation that's important for us to tell people in educational terms. Because if we treat animals as objects, as objectification, when we don't respect them...

I don't know if it was a correction... Anyway, what happened recently with the dog, right? That teenagers treated it the way they did, we saw what happened. I think this is a way that we are... When we say, as you put it, Pet father, or treat humanizing,

being mistreatment, we are passing a wrong message, right? For children, for education. So, you, as a biologist, as someone who is there, not knowing about your project, do you think you could invest in passing this education to children, educating them in an anti-speciesist way, something that would be more connected with us?

I'll ask you, if I said something... Let's go back to the sentence? Let's go.

Because we're discussing the sentence, right? At first... Everyone agrees.

I don't know if it's out of context, because it's veganism, I came to talk about veganism, and we're talking about pets, but I think there's a big relationship, even because pets are...

If it's a cat, it's strictly carnivorous, this is not a discussion I'm going to put here, It's a carnivorous animal, preferably. It's described, anyone who googles artificial intelligence will see it. So, they eat meat. Ok. I think this is a much more relevant question with what you do,

being your choice, because I want to say, I have nothing against your choice. Guys, if I say...

You're in favor of veganism. I'm not. I'm in favor of freedom. I'm a libertarian. You can do whatever you want with your life. Be happy. The big problem with veganism... The animals too. I'll try to answer.

The big problem with veganism, in my opinion, is trying to impose, to put a medal on the chest of virtuosity. That's why I joked in the beginning, I said, the first thing when you meet a vegan, is he who will say, I'm vegan. You don't even know who I am. Why? Because this is a preaching that seems to put them on a different level from other people by the food choice they made. And that's fine. We'll have time to talk about several choices we make,

which is cotton, cell phone. We'll have time to talk about it. I have nothing against you. The problem is when I have what? I have against people who don't know how to argue, who accuse me. I have a history that no one can deny. I've been working for 30 years. I have laws that were created on top of my work for protection. And I'm not some god or something. But it's my work, it's what I've done. But do you think veganism helps your work, that it's in favor of animals? I think no. Does it get in the way?

It doesn't get in the way. Veganism is your choice, be happy. What is veganism for people to know? It's your food choice. Be happy. As you want, have sex with whoever you want, dye your hair the way you want, be happy the way you want, I'm a libertarian. It's a choice like any other. It's not a choice that puts you in a different box.

The problem is that veganism became more or less a religious and ideological choice. And if you take veganism seriously... There's an equivocation, because veganism is precisely freedom for all sentient beings. Like a biologist, who is in favor of life, right?

You have to choose which animals you want. That's a phrase from Yellowstone, I won't say it. That's classic speciesism. But you can't run away from it. You can't run away from it. You selected the animals that are nice, that are not nice.

If a spider enters your house, you kill it.

I don't kill.

But most kill. If a snake enters your house, you don't know how to deal with it, because you kill it because you're afraid. I don't eat animals, and it's all right. The problem is that when you put yourself on a pedestal and look at the rest and say, you're on another level, because you're not real human beings. What happened to the dog there,

the ear, was a horrible thing.

Is it very different from a slaughterhouse?

That's horrible. Yes. I'll tell you why. You used violence there. Have you ever been to a slaughterhouse?

Yes. Do you know how it's done? Unfortunately.

Ok.

So, is it in Machadada?

The vast majority...

No, it's not. The vast majority is not. And you know you're wrong. Sorry. You're talking...

Well, I'm just checking the data. You're talking for talking. And we have... No. We know that... Please check the majority of the refrigerators For you to license a refrigerator, you don't need to go to the agency If there's a guy on the site that kills the cow with the... I think you have to sit here to talk, my friend So, ok

So, if you... If you...

I don't even know where to go

What do you want me to do?

You're going to count to the next one

Oh, ok

So, let's go to the next one

Let's go is I've done it. I've shown the whole circuit. I didn't see it. I searched and didn't see it. I'll follow you. You can put it. I... I showed everything. You know what made me get into the agro business?

What?

It was... Actually, the pressures. Because I always came from...

I came from...

The environment. And in the environment there's everything. There's everything I've said. There's everything. There's all kinds of people, not necessarily you. There's the person who eats meat, there's the person who is vegan, there's vegetarian, there's everything. The environment, because it's a common agenda for all of us.

Perfect?

I started... After I left, I went on the internet, and for now I was only on television, so people only saw what was on TV. When the internet started, it showed my habit, who I am, my day-to-day. And this gave room for many discussions, people started to... People said, how come you love animals and eat animals?

So I was very questioned. And the first thing I did, about five years ago, was to investigate how animals are treated in their inoculature, av cattle culture, in the cattle culture, I don't think anything is perfect, you know? But, like, it's far from the violence I see

in the way animals are treated, it's far from that violence. So, for example, in the swine culture, what do you think about this practice of cutting the teeth and the tails of the pigs? The teeth? the teeth of the pig, and also the teeth and tail of the pigs, you keep the animals in cages,

when they are in gestation, you keep them in cages, even I saw a video of your partner, who has a sleeping culture, they stay in minimal cages, an animal of I don't know how many kilos, they are not laid on the puppies and kill the puppies. Yes, how many days does she spend immobilized, lying down?

How many days does she spend?

Let's put it like this. Just explain to me, please, how the question of when they are works. I don't know exactly, I don't know if it's 50 days or something. 50 days they are immobilized and lying down for 50 days, breastfeeding. No, they don't get bedridden. They can get up, but there is a system of equipment that when they lay down, they can lay on the bedridden. The question of bedridden, when the animals are in the breeding, they cut the bedridden's teeth, they cut the bedridden's tails, the animals are confined in an extreme way And the animals, when they are, as Richard himself says, They stay for 50 days, totally immobilized

No, they stay totally immobilized Totally immobilized No, they don't stay, that's what you're saying So that the animals can't move This is not a lie This is a lie he said

What he's saying is never to do with the test. I saw it in your video. So you didn't understand the video.

I think we have to give something.

We are dealing with fake news.

Guys, wait a minute.

Let's go to the screen.

Treating the dog as a human being is mistreatment.

Pleasure, I'm Philipe. I'm a biologist. I saw you when I was a kid on TV, I grew up with you on TV. Well, I think I'd like to conclude this subject. I think everyone who agrees that, in fact, humanizing animals and treating, in a way,

pets in an excessively humanized way brings problems. It brings psychological problems. What we were a little in doubt about in relation to veganism is how this agenda relates to veganism.

But I didn't put the agenda. They took an affirmation of mine, it's an affirmation I've already made, and brought it to the agenda, since the agenda is veganism and pet father.

Ok, so we agree with the agenda, but the problem, in fact, our fight is more in relation to animals, not pets, because environmental problems and animal cruelty occur on a large scale in animals produced for food. I think I've concluded, I just want to pass on, because the problem is not this theme, the problem is the animals that are said to be consumed. I was a little worried about some of your speeches,

especially as a biologist, because I believe that biology should take advantage of a series of data that exists on how animal consumption directly affects animals, the planet and our health.

Do you think most biologists are vegan? No, unfortunately, this is a sadness. I think it's very sad, paradoxical. Maybe because they understand that this is not the point. I think they don't understand science. Animals only exist, slaughter animals, because there are people who eat it. And you, as animalists, who love animals and like to keep them there, in the so-called sanctuaries, which I think are wonderful and beautiful, I think, man, I like it, I think you have to live your lives.

The problem is not that. The problem is that you bring this agenda and want 99%, I don't want to say 99%, otherwise I would be a stupid scientist,

but you know you are a minority in veganism.

For sure. 14% of the population is vegetarian or vegan. Vegetarians are far from vegan, because they marry animals. 7% of the population is vegan.

Pure veganism, I doubt it.

It is impossible to be totally vegan. Veganism is within the possible and the practicable.

Pure veganism, if we take this, we're running away from the subject, but anyway.

I'll come back. Let's talk about curiosity, ok?

I, in my path, my friend, as a biologist, within agro, are there wrong things? Yes, there are. Do you have a driver's license? No.

Let's do this, a guy runs over a bunch of people, drunk, and we're gonna take the driver's license from all human beings because this guy, a tramp, did something like that. So, the animal cruelty I've been through, I'm gonna speak from the bottom of my heart, man, it's not the way they speak. It's not. So, but, look, for example, they are using this same thing. The fact is that it is a slaughter. You create an animal to kill it and eat it. This is not disputable. This is the fact. Now, the way to say that the ox was unhappy his entire life

for later you kill it, is not true.

It was, it's true.

And most importantly, no, this is your opinion.

It's your perception, sorry, but it's not. doesn't help in anything regarding climate change.

Good evening, Richard. Good evening, man.

You are?

I'm Victor. I'm an urban architect, I've been a vegan for practically 9 years.

I followed you on Instagram, you're one of the few I've seen on Instagram. And what did you think? Did you see the rabbit face?

No.

No?

No. There was someone from the rabbit.

Were you wearing a leather shoe, bro?

It was vegan leather.

Beautiful thing. I thought I was going to catch you in the jump. No, but this is very much in the middle of you. I think the vegan himself, I think your agenda is a fucking hard agenda, because to be a vegan is hard.

Sorry, I'm taking your time. I'm going to take a break, since I'm here, so I'm going to do it my way. I think the agenda... What I think is important is the agenda... I stopped the time.

No, it's ok. I had about 40 seconds hidden.

The vegan agenda is a hard and complicated agenda. And unfortunately, many adepts of veganism are the enemies of veganism in my opinion Because they end up sliding They end up raising flags that then contradict each other I think this is negative for the movement It's a fucking awesome movement, you stop really, to be a real vegan

Here, the majority, I'll tell you the truth, in total, here there are vegans But they are not real vegans, 100% 100% veganism that I know... In... in... in... In... if you take this to the root... To the root... Isn't this recording?

Of course it's recording. Of course it's recording. It's recording everything.

Of course!

Of course. No, no, no.

We're here to record. But, ok. No, we agree, right? That's why we study, bring data, we are always looking to update ourselves and such. And, well, first point here, I think it's important to put that I disagree with this statement, right? That veganism does not help in anything in relation to climate change, I already disagree.

And I would like here to make a round table, right? We exchange information.

No, let's talk about climate change.

Of course, of course. That's exactly what I want to bring. So I'm going to ask you some questions, you do others, and we can talk about the topic. First of all, you as a biologist, scientist, you have an important role in Brazilian society,

without denying, you have your whole history of trips, which I think, at least me, personally, I don't have yet, I want to have, but, in relation to science, I'd like to ask you some questions. Do you know the difference between a case study, a literary review, a systematic review? I'd like you to comment a little bit about this kind of difference.

Let's go.

Well, let's clarify, then. It's a case study, as the name says, a study of a specific case and a systematic review, a literary review. He looks for several case studies and usually reads the conclusion of the articles, the conclusion of the dissertations, to have a broader view on that topic, to bring more relevant and firm data for us to have public policies, for us to have laws, for us to have public speeches, for us to make scientific publications with data that we

can have a broader view on that topic. So, for example, this question of veganism doesn't help climate change, when we look at literature and, mainly, systematic revisions, it doesn't hold. When we observe, for example, the consumption of water climate change, when we look at literature and especially systematic revisions, it does not sustain itself. When we observe, for example, the consumption of water for the production of

foods that are of animal origin and plant origin, they are very different. And this is the literature itself that brings. The emission of greenhouse gases also has a difference. The use of land also has a difference. I think, for example, when you have this important role of scientific dissemination, you have your millions of followers on Instagram, you have your millions of followers on YouTube, I think it's important for you in this role, when you bring these types of statements,

and statements that are similar to these in other videos of yours, as you commented, you are a public figure, so we can access most of what you comment on, podcasts, comments, interviews, and when we observe several of your statements regarding veganism and the lack of potential in relation to climate change and it hits literature, it's not quite like that, right?

So come on, can I talk now?

Let's go, let's go.

First, the literature you read has redpill and bluepill. I don't know the literature you read. No, science. If you say that your science is correct, I can bring another science here and say that you are wrong. Today, the question, going back to the question of global warming,

no, people, science. We went through of science here, I won't get into it, and we've made a lot of mistakes. And it's normal, science points a way, and then it turns and says, the egg gives cholesterol, and then there's no more cholesterol. Ok, fine. So, what I want to say is, first, define what climate change is. Because I don't think that neither veganism nor anything, in my opinion, will change the climate issue. The big question is, is there a climate change?

Obviously there is. Obviously. I'm with you. What is this climate change? More warming? Because there are people who say it's more warming. There are people who say we are in a time of Holocene.

So, science points out different paths, ok? You absorbed your science, and ok, you got yours. This is a truth that fits in your narrative, and you will pull this one for you, because it is interesting for you to defend it. And that's fine, I'm not arguing about that. Be your truth, no problem.

I disagree because I have another truth and another literature.

Based on what?

You will discuss my literature based on different literatures. We don't have today a... A big symptom, for example. We don't have today... I'll ask you, since you're well-studied. What percentage does the human being influence in global warming or climate change? What percentage? Do you know?

So, we have measurements... Careful! We have, for example, measurements that...

I want to know the percentage. Give me a percentage, since you have a number. Because we must have a number. So... So we can change things in life. Give me a number. I know, you asked for the speech, I gave you the speech. No, I asked for a number, not a speech. You are a studied person, I asked for a number. Do you have this number or not?

Do you have it or not? Richard, let me answer. The question is simple, I don't want you to enter a course. I will not answer a number, I have a number. Can I answer? Now you can. What is the number? So, the measurements of the impact of human beings on global warming currently revolve around 1.5, 1.6 degrees above

the average temperature. So, Richard, I'll bring you another question. You commented on science...

No, but we're still in this, we're still in this.

Yes, of course, of climatic changes. You speak right now. You already spoke, and I'm answering. Let's discuss science, right?

The first thing was...

You're a scientist, aren't you?

So I'm answering you. The first... I'm not, I'm not. I'm a biologist, I'm an economist, I've already copied it, you don't talk about veganism and put numbers? No, but first of all... Are you a professional in the area? Are you a student?

I am, I have a master's degree.

So I am too.

So that's why I want to discuss science with you.

You can discuss science, but you...

So, but we're talking, Richard. What's your profession? Anyone can do a master's degree in environmental stuff. Sure, you can. If you take a garbage collection course, you can do it too. But there's a selective process. It doesn't give you the capacity to be able to... Let's go back to environmental discussion.

What is methane gas emission?

Since we're concerned with cows, right? We're concerned with cows. What is... I have a graph, a pizza graph, actually, of bars, I've studied it on the internet, anyone can access it. What's the percentage...

About 70%, I know that's your question.

What's the percentage of methane emission from cows? In Brazil, 70%. It's 2%.

No, 70%, this data is wrong.

Richard, let's go back two steps, please. Do you know what else emits? 28%... Let's go back two steps. Do you know what limits us? 28%... Let's go back two steps. I'll finish and I'll give you the data. Let's go back two steps.

This data is wrong.

28% is energy, 28% is transport, 20% is industry, 5% is commerce and 2% is... I'll send you the source later. 2% is the cow.

No, Richard.

I'll finish and I'll let you go. 2% is the cow. And we decided... No, Richard, no.

I'll finish talking and then you can say whatever you want. And we decided to fix the problems in the world using 2%. How can you have a budget in your house and spend 28% on rent, and you want to solve the 2% you're spending on gas?

This job doesn't make sense.

It's important that we discuss what science is.

You've discredited the IPCC.

I have to swallow your number, my friend.

It's scientific consensus, Richard.

No, it's not.

Yes, it is.

This is what you want people to believe.

Richard, you said you're not a scientist. Now you want to take back scientific data.

No, I'm not a scientist, now you want to take scientific data No, I'm just not an idiot, that's it, man I'm an idiot, you're an idiot too I'm not an idiot, I read, I don't need to be a scientist

It's science for you

Do you produce science?

Yes, I have production Do you have production? I looked, so I looked to read what you write

I looked to read what you write I speak to your master, what did you publish? What was your publication? Show me your publication about me Give me a publication about global warming No, it's not Richard's science, it's the science of most people who disagree with you

We just disagree with you I don't talk to you because you're aggressive So, no, you're aggressive No, but it's not, because you go by people. If I found out about your life, I would have things to talk about you. Just search a little bit. Yeah, I don't do it.

You, unfortunately, are not on the internet for that, right?

Very easy.

Well, as...

You're back, kid.

I'm back. I tried. I tried. I tried to talk a lot about this subject, especially because information, especially in biology. So if we think about it, in South America, 88% of the deforestation that occurred in South America is due to agriculture. But 71% of these 88% is due to grazing. Agriculture comes after the ox.

First comes the ox, and I agree with that number.

And 71% is for grazing.

And I wanted to give you a data that is very important from the Amazon, because it's something I have. Have you been to the Amazon? No, but I know it's one of the most devastated habitats due to the meat consumption. It's a rich and wonderful place, with only poor people and low GH. There must be something wrong with the formula of the richness of the Amazon, that we didn't know how to work with. But, okay, let's go.

In the Amazon, in fact, the livestock industry is illegal. The illegal livestock. I've heard about it. If you want numbers, I have numbers. No, 80% is real. So, it's true. And 70% of these 80, 70% is done in public areas. Which is even worse.

Because we have a serious problem in the Amazon, which doesn't have land titillation. So what happens? People... The law was made to blame those who have to be blamed.

Those who need to be watched. And I'm not in favor of that. I think we really have to fight. This is not a reason to end the ox.

It's a reason to organize the issue of cattle breeding.

But it won't organize if we have to produce so many animals for human consumption. No, no, no. Those animals can't be sold. Animals are legally bred, they are in irregular areas, they can't even enter the JBS system and they don't even buy this cattle, you know? That's not it.

What? There are data that JBS buys illegal cattle.

So there are, look, there are data for everything that is side. Which data do you want? I wanted to talk about, well, exactly. You have your data, I have data, I have data, I want to comment on data, on greenhouse gas, including. So, if you want to go back, well, data, there are many.

In the first place, what emits the most greenhouse gas is the user of...

Did you understand what I said about the ox, the 80% that I agree with you?

I have, exactly.

And did you understand that this is done illegally? 70%, 70% is done in public areas public areas, not even in private areas. But in a way, cattle destroys the environment. But guys, this makes a lot of difference. Because most of our cattle doesn't come from there. The question is that we generate consumption and these areas will be destroyed to supply this consumption.

And if it's not for you to plant, it will be to plant, I don't know what you eat, but it's going to be to plant what you eat too. No, because to feed the cattle. The cattle are not primary producers, the plants are. So for you to supply the cattle, you have to deforest and produce the cattle food. And what are you going to eat?

I eat directly, in a much more direct way, the vegetables.

And who plants for you?

Farmers, family farmers.

That's a good way.

Ok, I won't say anything else because it will be a thematic later. Agriculture...

You don't plant or raise... I don't want you to not like it, but... You don't plant, you don't plant anything.

What you eat, you don't plant, right?

There is somewhere, but I... You buy from agriculture.

You buy from agriculture. What's happening in the country is that there's a lot of open space. Look, guys, we made a mistake. There's a historical process that we're not taking into account. All of this is going to happen in 50 years. Things are changing. It doesn't mean we have to say no. We need to organize and discipline this process.

There's no way to organize. Animal consumption tends to increase, actually. So the more it increases, the more animals are destroyed. There's no problem eating animals. There is for you, but not for me. I'm great, I love barbecues, bro. What's the problem? And there's no problem with feeding. For you to eat your plant, you need an agriculturist

who will have to open space for the sun to reach because it eats photosynthesis.

It eats light, so to have light you need to have a pointed space too. Exactly, you need to produce this for years and feed this cattle for years. You could eat the plants directly, avoiding years and years of greenhouse gas emissions. But the greenhouse effect is what? In fact, agriculture is the second largest greenhouse gas emitter. Because you need to take into account the deforestation and soybean production, plus the release of gases such as methane and CO2 is by cattle. So you need more data.

Methane at 2%.

If you take all the industry...

And it's not the cattle, it's the cattle.

No, but if we're going to discuss numbers...

If you take all the industry... I have the numbers, do you want to see the numbers?

I have.

I have.

I'll send it to the group. I wanted to... Let's put it this way, then. 28% is energy and 2% is the cow.

And you want to start with the cow.

No, that's not true.

I understand you feel sorry for the cow.

That's another issue.

No, also.

But there's no point in listening to you now, because of what you brought up. So, look, if you take all public transports, this is the third place in greenhouse gas emissions. The livestock, associated with deforestation, is the second place. The second biggest cause of greenhouse gas release is livestock. This is undeniable. There's a lot of science on this.

The production will see if he's telling the truth or not.

Yes, Richard. Yes, it's true.

I'll send you the same scientific work that has a source, we'll put it there, and these are not the numbers. They are the numbers, please, let's put it. numbers of biodiversity, deforestation, and why is deforestation happening? You can't, you... you... you... You do what? What do you supplement with in your life? Since you're talking about things...

I feed myself with vegetables, which supply all the vitamins and nutrients I need.

And what else? No, B12, no. B12, no. You don't have B12.

And B12 and supplement. Just like those who eat meat, it's also supplemented, right? of the animal meat. But I don't need to destroy large areas, feed myself with meat.

Hi Richard, I'm Sofia.

Good evening. Good evening Sofia.

Good evening.

Do you want to start? Some minutes ago you commented on the fact that the Amazon's cattle was opened a large area for grazing illegally.

And you commented that this meat originated from these places won't go to JBS.

Let's take a quick break here. I think it's very important to have a historical context, because sometimes we... I'm almost 60 years old, so... 40, 50 years ago, we gave, the Brazilian government gave a motorcycle to the guy,

and there... Where are you from? Are you from São Paulo?

I'm from São Paulo.

For... For what? For us to occupy the north of the country, because we have a lot of poor people there. So, the Brazilian government gave a motorcycle, so that you could open it. And if you didn't open it, you would lose the land.

So, I want to say that it was a historical context that happened. So much so that today we have 15% of Brazil open for grazing. There are natural grazings in the south of the country, there are other natural grazings in the Pantanal, but we opened, today we have 15% open and grazing we don't need to open a single tree to grow a single ox

what will happen is that agriculture will take, agriculture is much more profitable than growing an ox much more profitable agriculture and soy are not only for feeding ox it's for fish, it's for chicken, it's for all animals besides making your burger, I don't know, whatever you eat, I'm sorry, I don't know, you eat soy, I imagine you make animal protein, because it's a good protein, it's high protein. So, agriculture will start to enter these fields. What I'm saying is that things are changing, changing. We don't need to condemn the ox. It's just my position. We'll talk about it later.

We don't need to condemn the ox to avoid this problem we're going through now, that you're talking about. Deforestation. Because we're associating a lot of deforestation with the ox. As if all deforestation was the ox.

And it's not exactly like that. We have a cool de that allows us to open 20% to 80% Actually, 80% to 20% depends on the biome you're in.

Let me just go back to the point you were talking about, otherwise we'll go to another point. Ok, fine. There was this mass deforestation, I think it was 30 years ago. And there are still illegal fires today, unfortunately.

And there are still many illegal fires, which we know are due to agribusiness...

It's not agribusiness, because agribusiness is a good thing. It's people...

The livestock industry, okay.

But, as we read the news, we see that it's related.

I'm not the one saying this, it's the news.

It's people who want to profit.

Anyway, I'll bring some data, I saw a documentary called About the Cow's Paw. It's available on a platform called EcoFalante. At this time, when I saw this mass deforestation, you're saying that it was the government that encouraged it. It wasn't the government. It was the farmers, wanting to open more pasture so they could have more pasture for them and consequently have more profit. But...

Well, I see the documentary and you draw your own conclusions. The audience draws their own conclusions watching the documentary. But anyway, besides being the farmers, the ABPA, which is the Brazilian Association of Animal Protein, ABPA, has a speech in this documentary, a speech of a person who participated in the mass deforestation, and she comments that ABPA should do the coverage, that is, the Brazilian Association of Animal Protein should cover

these people who were being forced to be exterminated. People were forced to be exterminated. This is not news in our country, let's be honest. Ok, but just reinforcing that this is strictly related to agribusiness. And it's also, I say because you can look on the internet, you see that there are some cases of analog work, slavery,

or work in very bad conditions.

There's everything.

Very bad, related to agriculture. So that's it. The ABPA itself encouraged illegal deforestation. This happened 30 years ago. And I imagine that it still has a relationship.

30 years ago we didn't have the Brazilian Forest Code. So you had the freedom to open in a different way than you have today. Today you have a rule to open a property. When you buy a property, you have to keep a legal percentage and the PPPs. Regardless of whether you're going to plant soybeans or create a ox, you have a rule. If we follow the Forest Code, everything is fine, it's in the law.

People don't follow, there are people who don't follow.

And these people have to be judged.

The inspection doesn't work as it should.

I fully agree. There is not enough inspection. There are bad people in the middle. There are people who only aim for profit. There are, just like there are in the pet issue, that we have good people and bad people.

There is no inspection. The inspection was already precarious, right? Because there are many establishments and few prosecutors, and now the situation will get worse. Why? Recently a law was passed, popularly called the Law of High Control,

which made this issue of inspection more flexible. So before, the establishments were already a little taxed, and now the situation will be even worse, because they will be able to pay for a private taxation.

We pay a lot of taxes in this country, and we have to have a tool for that.

Just one more comment, just one more information. You said that this is not going to the market, right?

The meat that comes from legal deforestation is't go to the market. It's forbidden. Yes, but actually, about 50% of the meat that is on the market is legal deforestation.

Where did you get this number from?

An NMO report, an international NGO called NMO.

I discredit you.

Why? Because you brought this number from a postcard of someone who is interested in this, and I could say 20, I could say 30, but you brought me here. Professional investigators did this research. I'll say it's 10%. There's a video of investigation of illegal drug dealers.

Anyone can search. Animal Equality investigates illegal drug dealers.

50% of the meat. And it's a NGO like so many others. And I'm going to say something very important about this, guys. Because we... We... That's it.

No, sorry. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Guys, if I can't express myself here and say, I get up and leave, and okay, we stay in this vacuum and there's no problem. I'm trying to explain things from my experience, that you here, if I can be here, no one had this experience. I'm trying to share something.

You didn't go to the Amazon, you didn't go to I don't know what, you didn't do I don't know what. All you do is raise a paper that you studied, sorry, Here are numbers that I don't have to agree with. She took a number of 50%. When you are here, you will say...

But who will produce data on illegal abattors?

The Brazilian government?

But this should be.

I also think it should be, but it is not. Who cares?

Most of the MPs in the Chamber are from the agribusiness.

They will not support a study on illegal smugglers. The agro won't get dirty because of the illegal smugglers. You guys are crazy. It's a business that moves a lot of money to get rid of the illegal smugglers. There's a law. There has to be a inspection and they have to be guilty. This doesn't justify the cabacoboi. It's like taking your driver's license because someone ran over you and we can't inspect people who kill and run over. But don't you think this number is too high?

50% of the meat is a very high number, don't you think?

No, 50% is the number you came from. It could be 20, 10, the title of a poster of an international NGO. That has the greatest interest that we don't produce, why? Because the countries out there, we have three branches. People, we're going to have to talk about agriculture. Let's have this theme of agribusiness? Then we'll talk about it. So I'll leave it to reserve to talk about Brazilian agribusiness at this moment, because there is a confusion, because here nobody plants, creates, does nothing,

feeds on agribusiness, and is there shitting the rules, dressing in cotton. Dressing in cotton. Yeah, let's talk about cotton. We'll get there, we'll. We'll have a chance. Yeah, but you selected those little animals. But let's go ahead. If it's to talk about animal deaths, insects, snakes, and everything that is dead,

tattoo that is dead.

No, sorry.

Cotton takes 15 to 20 defensive, is defensive by saffron. And you're using cotton, everyone here, and everyone is in the biggest hypocrisy, man. That's it. Me too, but I'm not against cotton. You're coming with a vegan agenda. I'm not vegan. I eat ox, I eat barbecue at home, you know? I have no problem. I sleep at night because I know it's good to be sick. I sleep at night, man.

That's the agenda.

Veganism is essentially concerned with cute animals and forgets about others.

How are you? Nice to meet you. Hello.

Hello, I'm Maria. Hi, Maria.

I'm a master's student, I graduated from Public Policy Management, I've been a vegan for 9 years. I've been researching the topic of veganism for a long time, it's my study topic, and that's why I wanted to better understand where your statement came from. Because in my definition of veganism, which I don't know what yours is, we have nothing to do with your speech. So, if you could explain a little better about your statement,

I'd appreciate it, so we can start this conversation.

Very well. What is veganism? What are the prerequisites for a person? Is it only in food? Is it just not eating meat and being vegan?

No, imagine.

I can bring it to talk to the public.

It would be great for people to understand.

Yes, even for us to align our conversation. Veganism is a principle, an ethical principle, it comes from a philosophical motivation, that in the primordial times, when we had the definition of the word, in 1951, the idea is to end the exploitation of animals. So, veganism is a movement, a principle that will aim

to eradicate the exploitation of animals by humans and also eradicate the objectification of these animals. So, it is an ethical motivation, and from this motivation we start to have practical developments. When I stop seeing an animal as an object, my idea will be to understand that it is a sentient being,

that it is a being that has feelings, that it is a being that deserves respect, and, therefore, I will not explore it, I will not objectify it. If I understand this, if I start from this principle, I will modify some of my habits within the possible and the practicable, because we know that we live in a society that is not vegan, so there are things that we won't be able to align 100% to this principle. But vegans try their best to make sure that we don't have animal exploitation

and try to fight for us to reach some space, some world, where animals are not objectified, where their feelings, personalities, individuals are considered. So, as I'm part of this principle, and I imagine everyone here is, we don't eat meat, we don't... We frequent certain spaces, spaces that have animal use,

we don't use animals for attraction, we don't go to circuses, we don't go to SeaWorld, things like that.

You turn on the light, that's it, and you don't have any problem, right? You use the light at home, you charge your computer at home?

No, it's a valid question, people.

Because our energy matrix is called hydroelectric. Has anyone ever been to a fauna rescue?

So, but...

What is a fauna rescue?

No, you already said it, now I'm going to say it.

Okay, you can talk.

So, when you light up this light here, you're killing thousands of animals because our energy matrix, which means what? You flood an entire area where there are several animals, try to rescue those poor animals that are there, to put them somewhere else where they will die because the balance already exists. So, every time we turn on the light, we're killing animals.

You're comfortable. You You don't eat animals, but you are not really worried if animals die so you can have your day to day. No, I am.

You are worried because you don't want to eat animals.

No, I just said it's not only about food. I am very worried, including, veganism brings other issues, we were discussing the environment. The point is, we live, I can't, in my individual choice, control the effect of electric energy.

So I'm here... Is it true? Can you?

So it's exactly about eating cute animals?

No, of course not!

Because you can't work on the other things, the classic veganism?

No, can I finish?

Yes, we're in a dialogue.

Sure, all right.

If I let you finish, it'll be 20 minutes and you're not a conversation. Sure, all right. I don't know if I let you finish, but you didn't finish in 20 minutes. So, let's go. So, I'm reaffirming what I said. You're worried about the animal you eat.

We're not.

Do you eat bees? No, I don't eat bees. Do you have a birthday cake that you hit? No. I saw pictures of someone... Guys, I'm asking, she's answering, I think it's an exchange.

No, it's that...

Guys, let's...

You just want to listen to her side, because I know you're very inflamed with the thing, and you want to, but...

But I'm trying to justify why she said that, because classical veganism, animal suffering. No, it's against animal exploitation and objectification. This is a North. It's a movement that is heading North.

How wonderful! Be happy with your movement.

Ok. Keep going. We're trying to... Keep going. Can I answer the question of hydroelectricity and the other questions about cotton

that you brought in parallel?

Tell me about the hydroelectricity of cotton. I want to hear.

Ok. These two activities, hydroelectric and cotton, are not based on animal exploration by itself, right? One is focused on electric energy, the other...

So, the animal is not the problem. It's just if we're going to create the animal.

No, I'm asking her.

No, the point is that it's a principle...

Why don't you sit here?

She will sit.

Why don't you sit here? Why don't you sit here? So when it's your turn, you can talk.

Well, let's go. It's a principle. We are trying to move so that animals are not exploited or objectified.

Right? But we are...

Dead can be, but not exploited.

No, it's obvious that we want to reduce... We care about the exploitation and objectification because we don't want animals to suffer.

What do you suggest for us to wear since we don't want to kill the many animals that die? What do you suggest?

Are we going to plant marijuana?

Good, good, good. Do you want to discuss the fashion industry at this moment?

No, no, it's not fashion. I want to know, I want to understand. What I understood is that you are not worried if the animals die so you can live.

You are worried about the animals that you can choose not to eat. And ok, be happy with your choice, no one is discussing this.

Ok, ok. There are animals, yes, life will always have death, we will always have... This is part of life, I'm not here advocating for the reduction, eradicating the suffering of the world, eradicating the deaths of the world. We as vegans, we are working with a society that cares more about animals, considers their life, their consciousness, their feelings, and collectively we are trying to...

Ok, there are farm practices, there will always be deaths, we know that in farm practices there are deaths of animals. We are trying to think collectively, if more people adhere to this principle, because, in my opinion, I don't see why not, from what I understood, you also think it's a opinion, I don't see why not. From what I understand, you think it's a principle... I don't see why not.

It's nice to respect others. Be at ease. I'm saying that I, for example, it's not my option. Because what you're trying to push me into my throat is that your option is better than mine. And I'm saying that mine is better than yours. Why? Yours would point is that mine... You're trying to justify yours as if you were on an altar that you're going to save all the animals.

I'm not... I'm not...

And if we don't have, don't consume... Guys, one thing that is very important to know is that if we don't consume the ox, the ox will not exist. There won't be a sanctuary to keep the ox because there won't be any more ox, man. It's that simple. Animalism shoots itself in the foot. Because there's only ox, ladies and gentlemen. There's only ox because someone eats it. Or you have an ox as a pet in your house.

I don't have an ox as a pet. I have no intention of having an ox as a pet.

And the question is...

So you don't want to have an ox on the planet anymore, is that it? Oh, honestly... We're not going to eat. Explain it to me. Or take the milk out. Tell me. For what? In the name of what? No, you don't come. Because you, you... I don't even want to talk to you. I'm mad at you. I don't even want to talk to you.

I'm going to talk about something else.

You come with personal confidence. I'm gonna find a lot of things, easy What I understood from veganism is that we eat and not that we kill It depends, if we kill to eat, then we can't But if we kill to live, then it's ok To have energy, to have fuel in the car, to have all of this Because the fuel comes from where? From the sugar cane, from the corn You have to plant it, there are big extensions

And then there's this thing, anyway There, no, really I think you didn't know how to explain it, uncle you didn't know how to explain

Hi Richard, my name is Rafael I think you didn't understand the proposal, really I think you didn't understand, it's not a provocation this one of acting within the possible and the practicable

that's it I can stop living is it better for me to kill myself then? I need I am against animal exploitation. And within the possible and the practicable, I will act so that they are as little as possible exploited and as little as possible killed. How am I going to stop consuming energy? I will stop coming here to the podcast. I will stop bringing this subject up.

And I will stop doing this.

I will stop doing this.

I will stop doing this. I will stop doing this. How am I going to stop consuming electric energy? I'm going to stop coming here to the podcast. I'm going to stop bringing this subject up. I know that just in this conversation we had here, hundreds, thousands of animals were slaughtered. And I understand this as an injustice to them,

and I'm bringing this subject up. And I'm going to stop coming here here because we are consuming a light, a hydroelectric power plant that I know has decimated tens, hundreds, thousands of animals. I'm going to stop doing this because of this. This is to act within the possible and the practicable. We know that unfortunately we can't be 100% vegan, 100%…

So it's about the leather or the food? It's not only about food.

It's not about food.

No, you're not giving me the argument. For now it's about food.

You don't care about the light, you don't care about the fuel, you don't care about the party you go to, that has, I don't know, what it has, you don't care about anything. You actually care, I understand, only with the option you have of not being able to eat meat. Which is your total right.

No one will take that away from you.

It's your right.

Meat, milk, eggs, honey...

Wonderful! Honey, expiration, everything.

And everything I can do, like, for example, our friend. You went there, visited his social media, and said, Wow, he's wearing colored shoes. Am I going to get this vegan?

Yeah, I didn't get him. You didn't? Yeah, I didn't get this one. But if I look at your lives, I'm sure I'll find some hooks. And I'm not here to to belittle what you're doing.

I think this is your white option. The big problem with the discussion we're having is not you letting... making your option, It's not you letting them do their own thing. It's you not allowing me to do mine. Because you think you have information produced by the NGO What the Fuck, that came and did a scientific work in the United States

and that doesn't want a production here, because we have a lot of NGOs that don't want production in Brazil, not because they are worried about the cow, and that's the big problem. There are people who live on the problem. And unfortunately, I'm not your enemy. You are my enemies, but I'm not your enemy.

I don't disagree with the option, and I've said it's a difficult option to be made. In its root. Because to be a vegan, consistent with veganism... We do everything we can. You do everything you can, but you won't cancel it.

But you made a choice. You do everything you can, but you won't cancel it. You won't cancel it.

But you made a choice. You made a choice. You made a choice and it's ok. You made this choice.

Are you happy with your choice?

It doesn't matter.

Are you happy with your choice? I'm happy with mine. I don't think...

The artist is in control.

Yeah.

Pause.

Hi, Richard. I'm waiting for you. Don't run away.

My name is Carol. How are you?

I'm a former high performance athlete.

Your Instagram is there. It's one of the few I could see.

I'm an activist, vegan, and always in the fight for animal liberation.

Perfect.

That's it.

You say you're a libertarian, right?

I am.

So, explain to us the concept of libertarianism, please.

Do whatever you want with your life, as long as you don't affect the lives of others.

Good, good.

I agree with you.

Ok. So, if the principle is non-violence, right? You don't hurt anyone.

No, I didn't say that.

So, what? Explain it again, please.

I didn't say that. It's something else.

Historically classical, the classical libertarianism arises in the 19th century, linked to anarchism, which defended individual freedom, anti-authoritarianism and anti-exploration. Right? So, if the principle of non-violence, why is it only valid for humans?

Because I don't think the animal is being exploited. That's it. I think... Sorry, it's my concept, people. You... Well, right? You want to say that I have to agree with you. No, I don't agree. I don't think the animal is being exploited. The animal only exists because it has a demand for it. That's what I doesn't exist.

I'll give you an example of you shooting at the foot, called the donkeys. You shot the donkeys at the foot. Everyone started with the story of donkeys, you can't do that, you have to take a little bag here, take it.

The Northeast was created, it emerged on the back of a donkey, and there were, I don't know, I think it was 1,200,000 donkeys, in high times. Now there are, I think, 70,000 donkeys.

And why?

And I saw the animal forum, which you all must be ardent followers, and I said, wow, how absurd, the veterinarian, who is vegan, because it is not in use. And that is the great secret. It is not in use! It is being extinct because it is'm going to China to see this, ok? I'm going to China, ladies and gentlemen. Now, in March, to see what's going on. To see if there's suffering...

My agenda is animal suffering. I don't see animal suffering. No, you're seeing that you kill an animal to serve you, and that bothers you. I see the guy living...

Freedom ends where violence begins.

I'm seeing... I'll finish.

If you're a libertarian. He lives a good life until the day he dies. Good?

So I'm going to tell you this, let's go.

You say that chickens that are trapped in a cage have a good life?

No, I don't think so. That pigs in a gestational bay have a good life? That the beaks of the crushed pigtails, the tail of the cut pigs, the ears of the cut pigs have a good life? But do you think that's because it hurts. It hurts. It hurts. It hurts. It hurts. It hurts.

It hurts. It hurts. Who can... It's become activism. Yes, but it's always activism. Who can visit a sanctuary will visit.

No, you can't visit a sanctuary, people.

I think you can. Just send a pixie and go there. Send a pixie and be happy.

I think it's great. It's a bill, you just have to pay taxes, you have to declare, you have to open the doors for people to investigate what's going on inside. You have to give satisfaction about the money that comes in. Like every human being has to do here. Like I have to do, you have to do.

So it's no use getting a pizza and putting a lot of money together. I want to know where this money goes. Because it affects people's feelings.

Have you ever visited a sanctuary?

Which one?

Let me tell you this. I have a bus coming back. What do you do for the animals besides raising voices? I'm an activist, I work in NGOs. What is an activist?

I work in NGOs. To fight for animal liberation, to bring the minimum of animal welfare. Do you get paid?

No, because I work with something else.

Something else. So you're a volunteer, right?

No, I'm a volunteer, but probably in the future I want to work with this.

I attended. But at the moment I'm not working. But what does it do? We fight for the minimum of welfare... Is it a dog or a cat? No, it's for the most neglected animals in the industry.

We fight for the minimum of animal welfare.

I think it's like this...

Remove the gestational bale pigs...

You go into the bale... You go into the production system, take the pigs and take them in? Is that what you do? No, we ask for the minimum of well-being for large companies. And I fully agree with you. I think the chicken can be better treated. Me too.

Yes, we fight for that.

There are a lot of people I think like you.

There are a lot of things I think like you. I also think there are certain things that can be much better.

But this won't do me... I'm going to improve their lives, but let's go. I'll ask you a question. Are you a hunter?

Yes.

Perfect. Are you a hunter of boars?

Yes.

Guys, you... You biologists say that...

Yes.

It surprises me, since the boar... What do you want to do? Adopt a boar? Who created the problem?

Let's take it to a NGO?

Let's create a job in a NGO?

Who created the boar problem? It wasn't in our country, it came from Uruguay and Argentina.

But it was because of...

But we have to solve it, it doesn't matter. And I'll tell you something, among the pig...

Was it a human introduction?

Among the pig...

Commercial creation?

No, it was hunting grounds in Uruguay and Argentina that went out of control. That was the big natural process. This was... the invasion came from. Violence is not an ethical solution, Richard. I don't know what you're talking about. So we shouldn't kill the boar? No.

We should take it into account.

I think there are methods.

And the environmental problem, how is it?

Reproductive control, ecological barriers, prevention. We can't do this.

We can't. Don't exterminate. You're talking about something you have no idea what you're talking about. It's not a commercial creation. The wild boar is loose around there. And I'll tell you something. The best thing when you see a wild boar is better... If you compare it to the pig that stays inside the...

Freedom of choice does not include freedom of violence, third.

They are sentences. They are sentences. Anyone can be a sentence. You put a beautiful sentence. And it's not hugging a tree that Cutting a tree? Cutting a tree? Cutting a tree? Cutting a tree? Cutting a tree? Cutting a tree? Cutting a tree? I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

I'm sorry. I don't see any of you raising these issues. Raise the issues. Everyone is worried about the dog Caramelo. Let's talk about Iran, guys. Let's talk about Iran, guys. I'm the biggest feminist there is. I've been married eight times.

Richard, you said that industrial animals don't suffer.

I'm saying that the production process today aims at animal welfare. The producer understood that a happy animal gives more milk, a happy animal gets fatter. This is the system. Every living being has a moment when it is born and a moment when it dies. What we do in the case of animals, we shorten their lives because we feed them. What my concern was always,

and when I started these articles and went to places you usually don't go because you don't want to see, I started researching, and there is animal cruelty, it exists everywhere. There is cruelty everywhere in the world.

But the productive system today, in the vast majority, aims to create the best condition. Are there things to change and improve? There always are. But that's not the reason why I'm going to eat an animal. The big point of veganism that you're hitting, really, that I'm seeing, and listen, guys, sometimes I've asked myself too, because if I had to kill an animal to eat, I'd be screwed. I wouldn't have the courage.

I'm a coward who's a third-timer, okay?

Okay?

And just so you know, time won't run out.

I'm a coward who's a third-timer, and for a person to do that, thank God, he does. But I don't... I sleep at night, calm, knowing that that animal, it lived... It only exists because I'm eating it.

Okay. It only exists because I'm eating it. Before the time runs out. But you said that animals don't... I'm very educated. Thank you. Thank you very much. You said that animals don't suffer. A question. If I cut your finger off, without anesthesia, would you feel pain?

I would.

If I scratched your tooth, without anesthesia, would you feel pain? No. Not when If I scratch your tooth without anesthesia, would you feel pain?

No, not when I'm a baby. When babies are born, when a baby is born, the baby cried, the baby cried, they cut

the guy's penis and don't suffer.

Have you ever heard the cries of a baby pig? Have you ever heard an investigation and heard the cries of baby pigs going through that? and pet him here, he'll scream the same way. Well, I suggest you do some research to see better about it. But it's not just about pigs, either. In the egg industry, you think it's suffering. You think it's suffering for an animal, a chicken, to spend its entire life in a space smaller than a sheet of paper?

So, that's it. More than 90% of egg production in Brazil the chickens are in a space smaller than a sheet of paper. This is the egg you consume. All her life she is suffering and does not even receive sunlight.

So if this is not suffering, what is suffering?

Let's improve this condition.

Veganism hurts the vegan cell.

Hi, Regi.

I'm Lars, I use masculine pronouns. So, I'm going to give you a context of where I'm coming from, to make sense, I'm not a nutritionist, so I'm not a health professional, as you said, but I'm a trans person, from the outskirts, a racialized person, and I come from a context where what I liked to eat when I was a child was to grow up eating sausage mashed potatoes, you know? So, like, talking about vegan food, being the most ideal, the healthiest or not, also also has to fit in the context of where the food comes from, the animal product base, right?

Because it turns out that in the reality of the outskirts, I lived most of my life in the outskirts of São Paulo, I'm from São Paulo, and nowadays I live in an occupation, and most people don't have access to natural food, natural foods, right? So, what do we eat in the suburbs?

Hamburger, all those frozen foods, of animal origin. And if you look, I don't remember if it's ham or mortadella, which is linked to the highest levels of stomach cancer.

Ham, now, this research has appeared. All the ultra processed of stomach cancer. This research just appeared.

All the ultra-processed foods. Stomach cancer and rectal cancer. So, it turns out that... Well, you also talked about... I remember seeing a clip of yours where you say that vegans are basically people who...

You also said this here. Who think they are superior people who... You said this too, here. Who think they're superior for, I don't know, being able to choose... Having this power of choice. Ok, yes. But, speaking of the veganism I follow,

making it clear that veganism has its roots, we also have discontent among us, and I follow popular veganism. And what I defend is, I don't want to force anyone to anything, I want to raise the reflection. So if you are a person that lives eating in a neutralized way, you develop a lot of health problems, and we also talk about global syndrome, if I'm not mistaken.

Yes. Yes. Which is basically all the problems that are caused by it. There are the environmental issues, which have already been talked about, right? and the malnutrition of people from the outskirts who don't have access to natural food and also obesity, which is when you eat a lot of ultra-processed food, you get fat, you don't eat enough and you cause a lot of health problems because of that, and the South is full of people with these health issues

because of industrialized food, including the industrialized foods of animal origin. I agree. And what I defend is that people, in general, have access to the choice of food they want. So I'm not going to force you to be vegan. But you have to have the choice to. You have to have the choice to be able to eat a natural food, to be an organic food, to be a simple food.

You don't need to eat ham. I don't eat ham. I eat beef made of alcatra. Because you have access, but most people don't. Yes, more or less. I mean... You see, the hamburger you mentioned, there are options, but you can eat other things. You can eat ox nipples. I'm not saying you have to eat a steak, because it's hard to eat steak today. But you can eat ox nipples. That's healthy. It's healthier, I'm saying, because it's natural.

So when we talk about natural, I agree with you on ultra-processed foods. They're poison, ham, unfortunately, even salami, which is wonderful, which I love. So, there's a research coming out, and I agree with you and the other processed, but the food, you see in a place that the rice, the beans, the meat, the guy wakes up in the morning, has to take three hours by bus, and three more to get back, he doesn't have this food requirement.

Exactly, this problem. The problem is not being accessible. And even the raw meat is also linked to cancer, but not like the other processed. But there are also health problems and numbers that the unnatural meat is linked to.

It's hard to say that it's that or that. Of course, you will defend what you give to the meat, that it's bad. But the meat has a wonderful protein.

But the protein comes from the soy that the cat eats.

I think you said that if you eat soy directly, you'll be fine. What do you eat, then? Sorry, let me understand.

If you wake up in the morning, what do you eat?

I usually try to avoid ultra processed foods. So, normally, in my day-to-day, I always eat fruit, vegetables. I eat fruit salad. What else?

And I try to prepare. This is also bad, right? I don't think it's fair. But she talked about fruits and nuts, I don't know, fruits. I want to understand your breakfast. In the morning, lunch and dinner, what does a vegan person eat?

A curiosity of mine. I ate a lot of things today, but I don't think that's the point. It's totally the point. We're talking about veganism and you don't want to talk about what you eat? I eat fruits and vegetables and grains most of the time. Today, specifically, I went to a birthday party, people knew I was vegan, I ate specific things that I don't normally eat in my day-to-day life. But my personal question, it's not a matter, because I was talking about a question of people from the periphery who don't have access to this. And cool, you can choose.

But you're talking about food, alternatives. Yes.

But you don't want to talk about the foods that are alternatives.

I just talked. I already talked.

So, in your day-to-day, what do you eat?

I won't be redundant.

Cereal fruits, is that it? Okay, okay. Cereal fruits, is that it? Ok, ok, cereal fruits. What's up, Richard? Everything good? Oops, sorry, sorry, sorry, man. What's up, bro? I saw you were there, crazy to come, man. Ah, cheering, right?

What is the affirmation, Richard, please?

Veganism is the cause of veganism.

Yeah, I never said that, ok? I wanted to make it that, ok? I wanted to make it clear. No, it's ok, but it's what has to be defended. Now, if you want to defend this point, defend it and I'll agree with you. Well, guys, here's the thing. Vegan food is literally the best choice for the human being. And I have a lot of material here. And I'm not just going to talk, ok?

I have a link, I'll It's not from my head. Richard, do you recognize the Inca as a responsible body?

Who?

The Inca. The Inca?

Yes, the National Cancer Institute, the Inca.

I don't know enough to say.

I had my father who died of cancer, and my mother of a heart attack.

The two main causes of death in the world, right?

Coronary diseases and cancer.

It's not fair, even because we don't have a rise. Look, you started with this veganism thing yesterday. We don't have a history of you being vegan to say

scientific studies, to say long-term population.

Okay.

What we do today is echoing 30 years from now.

In 30 years we will look back and see who was right or not.

I agree with you.

The egg yesterday was cholesterol and it is not.

It's very recent. I followed this egg story. I ate meat 29 years of my life. I'm a vegan since I was 11. So I'm not here to deny reality.

I accept reality as it is. It changes every 5 minutes. Something new is discovered. If something new comes up, we can... Yes, a new study comes out all the time, a new perspective. They recently changed the food pyramid, but anyway... Do you have your glasses on? Could you read this sentence for us? This is a complete article, it's not a cut.

If you want to read what's in black, please. Red meat consumption is recommended up to 500g of cooked meat per week. That's about 70g of cooked meat per day. And what would be the penalty? Iron, zinc, vitamin B12.

About the risk of... It's on this first page. The risk of cancer development.

I understand that you have research like that.

I agree that you have research like that. No, it's not mine, it's from the INCA.

It's from the state, the government.

Ok. We have... I don't want to be a negationist with this, I want you to understand. We have a position... I don't know why in Brazil we started to point out...

Let's stay on the meat. I'll take...

You can't continue.

Because the next subject is agriculture, I'll leave it there, I won't anticipate. Rice plus beans, complete protein, is that it? Eat rice, beans... What do you eat, young man? Man, my main source of protein is soy. What was your breakfast? My breakfast was a little bit of coffee, the traditional one.

A vegetable milk, it can be almond, it can be soy too, no problem.

And soy meat with bread.

The basis of your diet is soy?

Soy, mainly. The soy, which is the purpose, guys. We are talking about 100g of soy. There is the processed one. There is the processed one, which is the PTS, which is the ground meat. But I eat the grain, because it's much cheaper. We are talking about 1kg for 7 reais, it will bring 37g of protein.

And it's a complete protein, and it works very well, integral. Preferably always organic, but the reality is... I'm not here to deny the reality.

It's hard to find and it's also more expensive.

It's hard to find and be sure that it's organic.

But what do we eat today, Richard, in large scale in Brazil that is not transgenic? It's very hard, man. I wouldn't be an expert on this subject. But more than 95% of the products that are on the market are transgenic.

So you're saying that the ox, the ox, the problem with the ox, with cancer, it has nothing to do with the soy he eats.

No, I'm not saying that. I'm saying that...

No, I'm asking you. Because you eat soy, the soy the ox eats, you eat. Then you are what you eat. And his meat is cancerous, right? No, I'm not saying his meat is cancerous. What's being said here by the National Cancer Institute is that you should consume up to 500 grams of meat cooked per week. Which would give 70 grams of meat per day that no one eats. So it's a recommendation, right?

No, it's the limit they're giving as a safety suggestion. That it's 70 grams that no one eats. So we can eat meat, right? Ah, ok. That it's 70g that no one eats. So we can eat meat, then? No, I think you can... I think that, as you said, we can do everything, but we will take a risk.

And the risk that people are taking today is to die from coronary diseases or cancer.

No, the risk we have today is to get shot when you go out on the street.

This is the cleanest, which is safe, so... If it's a risk, it's a risk. But we're evaluating... We're talking about what's under control. You don't choose where the bullet will come from, but what you put in your mouth... You can choose to isolate yourself... But again, I'm not being idealistic, I'm not bringing an imaginary world.

I live in the real world, in Brazil. The country with the highest tax burden in the world.

For example, all Brazilian farms pay less tax than the city of São Paulo.

I think it's perfect, because we are the biggest polluters.

Pollution is done in the city, not in the countryside.

So you're telling me that 224 million heads of...

Wait, let me finish.

All these millions of people who live shitting in the city, in a place that doesn't have basic sanitation,

that most of us don't have,

I think they have to pay taxes.

No, I agree that we have to pay taxes. And I live in the city too. But you're saying that 224 million cattle heads, there are more oxen in Brazil than humans. Doesn't it generate degeneration? Doesn't it generate pollution?

But it's fertile. It's different from your poop. Your poop is bad. Oh, you're vegan. No, I'm vegan. Your poop is good. You can use it as fertilizer. You're in a position... Now, most people... But most people... No, what has impact is our poop, which is not a country that has no sanitation. That's right.

The shit of the cow, it's a great manure, like your shit. It's an excellent manure, because you only eat things that are fibers. Yeah, but that's it, you're right. And the Inca, as it's called here...

Inca, you're right. And the Inca, as it's called here... Inca? The National Cancer Institute? He recommended eating up to 70 to 500 grams. So we can eat meat, it's authorized by the Inca. I think it's excellent.

I think it's fundamental... the statement is that eating...

Can you repeat the statement, please?

I don't even remember, man.

Well, being a vegan is bad for the health of vegans, is that it? I completely disagree with that sentence, because being vegan is fundamental to people's health. Look, according to FAO, an organization associated with the WHO, 70% of all diseases that have emerged in the last 50 years came from animals. This includes Ebola, HIV, SARS-CoV, COVID, we experienced it during a pandemic. 70% of the diseases came from animals.

It was Ebola. I was in Africa when Ebola broke out.

Ebola comes directly from hunting animals. No, no.

Wild animal consumption. It's a wild virus.

It's not zoonotic. Let me comment on something that's interesting that I had forgotten. Since we're talking about Ebola, Ebola came from the monkey, right? It came from primates, right? Yes. Just like HIV. You know that primates eat meat, right? Is it new to you?

As a biologist.

Chimpanzees are mostly vegetarians.

Monkeys eat insects.

Our closest relatives.

Let's get our closest relatives, which are the ones we have the most.

Chimpanzees. Most of their food is vegetable. Yes, but they eat meat.

Including other primates.

So let's follow the Inca thing and eat less meat. I also think we should eat less meat. I just don't want to abolish eating meat. I think it doesn't make sense.

It's because, look, according to the WHO, according to a study that actually accompanies 5,000 people in the United Kingdom over a long period, it was detected that eating meat, a small amount, is associated 50g per day, already increases by 18%, the amount of you developing diseases

like colorectal cancer, mainly of ultra-processed, so sausage, bacon,

ultra-processed, ok.

Now a beautiful succulent steak of alcatra, bro. It's not processed. Everything is processed. Today we are, It's also associated, but not directly. But red meat is associated, according to this study,

that occupies more than 5,000 people.

Everything is associated. But even meat is not associated. Today, when you open a can of peas, partner, do you eat peas? Do you eat peas?

How? For sure.

Do you open a can of peas?

I open.

Okay, then. It's even answered. Yeah, but there's what keeps that cute herpes for you to eat there, man. Sorry, how many preservatives are in that crap, my brother? respect is your opinion and you're trying to judge this opinion that you don't want to see an animal suffer and you eat it ok I respect that and you try to justify with all this health thing when you open a can of peas and eat a can of peas with that disgusting juice that's in there brother, then you think it's okay because there is no research on peas

you don't even need to research, let's tell the truth

open one and send it to the lab. Let's look for scientific articles that speak ill of peas. Let's look for scientific articles that speak ill of animal consumption. The preservatives, uncle. Peas are water and salt.

Water and peas, actually. I read a lot of packaging about what I eat. By the way, I'd like to answer, because you asked what we eat, right? I like to say that I eat everything, except meat. So my diet is much healthier than when I ate meat, you know?

That's good, I'm happy for you.

It's very good, very good.

Do you feel better like this?

A lot. I don't, I feel better eating beef.

You would eat...

I understand.

I feel even better eating vegetables. Seriously? No, but for a social issue. Mine, ok? Without raising the flag. Without raising the flag that Anitta did and then ate at the barbecue, ok? So, this is the hypocrisy that, unfortunately, you pay a price for it. I agree, it's not easy to be vegan. I never said it was. And I respect your opinion. The problem is that you try to justify your whole option of not eating meat because it all sums up in the penalty you have for killing an animal.

That's why you don't kill the wild boar, that's why the buffaloes are destroying biological reserves here, and we don't kill them because we should kill them, but there's someone who says, oh, poor thing. And when in conservation...

Look, guys, I come from the biology of conservation,

and you should know how the biology of conservation works. Yes. Do you know why Pirarucu is out of the animal extinction list?

But why did it get into the list?

Why?

Because it's an excessive hunting.

Of course, it's an excessive hunting. We regulated hunting and today everyone eats pirarucu. And it will never go away. Do you know why? Because it's out of an emotional conservation, which is the main goal of you, to an economic conservation.

We can only conserve when it's worth something, people. Stop dreaming. That's it. No, that's for other reasons, that they're taking and putting in other places. But it's not a plague. It's not a plague.

No, no.

So, no. Ah, not with you. If you're going to offend me, I'll get up and leave.

It's another thing.

Okay, let's go.

Actually, I came here because I think it's important to emphasize, since we're on the subject, that veganism is not a diet. This is a very important thing for us, especially for those who are watching us, to know that veganism is not a diet.

This is not the main point of being vegan. It's not the main point, what we eat. There are vegans who eat breakfast snacks. You can eat breakfast snacks, junk food, that is not of animal origin. There are vegans who eat super healthy food, based on organic foods.

And there is exactly what Lars had said, the access issue. There are many ways to access a healthy diet in a healthy one. So, I think it's important to rephrase that. And another thing is in relation to taste. I've heard you saying several times,

I like beef, I like beef. Do you know who liked beef? Me. I liked beef a lot, I liked all the things of animal origin, dairy. I think that not only me, but many vegans, before being vegans, loved beef, sometimes even bleeding. Bleeding beef, barbecue.

I was the last survivor of barbecue, before being vegan. So, it's not a matter of taste. It's another thing to be emphasized here. The matter of eating beef, you say you're libertarian,

everyone does what they want and everything else. Cool, everyone does what they want. Cool, everyone does what they want, but we have bases to do what we want. For example, you have some ethical basis to do what you want. For example, you don't eat dogs.

No, I don't know. Maybe in China I'll try.

Maybe you'll try.

Do you know why I won't eat dogs? Because the way dogs are made there is inhuman. That's it. See? It's inhuman.

The way they take it to the markets...

And here, it's not. Here it's fine.

I don't know who went to China, but... I don't like the way... I try to make my choices in the way I can, too. Disagreeing that I won't stop eating meat because all the sustainability,

nature and health rations you gave me, I reject them all.

Ethics.

And it's ok, as you live with your reality, I live with mine, and your freedom goes as far as mine. So, you can't invade my freedom and say

you owe it because I think or because...

But you can invade the freedom of animals. No, you... I can. You can. I can, I can't do it. You said that the vegans think they're superior. And they're on a pedestal. The human being who thinks he can invade the freedom of animals thinks he's above everyone.

These animals only exist. We only create the animals. There's only the ox. You only know the ox. Yes, he was a...

I'll finish. I'll finish.

There's only the ox because we eat or milk it. If we didn't eat the ox, it wouldn't have this dispersion because it wouldn't have the reason for the ox to exist.

Great! Great! They occupy a third of the Earth!

Stop having the ox, stop having the pig, the chicken, all the animals.

They don't have ecological role. They don't have ecological role.

It's not a matter of ecological role. So you and I don't have ecological papers. Ok, they don't have ecological papers. So you and I don't have ecological papers either.

That's not the point.

That's not the point.

Agribusiness sustains Brazil and does good for society. This sentence is not mine. No, it's not mine. But agribusiness is not an economic issue. Agribusiness feeds all the beings that are inside this room,

without any exception, because the agribusiness goes from small to big. Period. I'm a guy who works with conservation biology, no one here is going to take that away from me. And what I've been walking around and seen, in that sense, is that social doesn't match with environmental. I prefer to have a big property with a big legal reserve, with the APPs in order, than to have in that same area, 50 small properties.

Social doesn't match with environmental. So we need to donate the business. Because here, your soy doesn't fall from the sky, someone has to plant it. And no one here, including me, doesn't plant and doesn't raise what I eat. As I said, I'm a coward in the case of animal protein, because... I wouldn't have the courage to kill an animal to eat it.

It's a good thing that someone does this job and there's no problem. There's a guy who's an astronaut, there's a guy who's a butcher, there's another guy who doesn't know what... There's a job for everyone, but... Agribusiness is, today, in Brazil... It's a power, and being... Because we're a country that has three crops, different from other countries that only have one crop. So we can produce a lot more in the same land space,

and we do it very efficiently. That's the point I'm making. And... very efficiently. That's the point I'm making. And the agribusiness guy, I'll make this statement so you can have arguments, ok? You can hit me later. Today, half of the forests are scientific data, you can search for it. 60% of Brazil, according to the UN and the IMBRAPA,

is preserved in forests, 60%. Half of it, 30%, are data you can research, no problem 30% which is half, is indigenous land and conservation unit and the other half is in the productive lands this is a scientific data, feel free to... it's in the UN, and the UN should be exempted in this kind of survey

so, how not to be a friend in conservation, me, who is concerned with the object, which is the animal that is wild and wild, how not to bring to the table the guy from agribusiness as a collaborator in conservation. That's it, you can come now and start the fight.

And roll.

I'm going to try to make my colleagues talk later. I agree at a certain point, when you talk about agribusiness, in fact, it is important. We live from agribusiness in the sense of the vegetables we eat. We eat soy, corn, etc., which comes from the vegetables. The problem is with livestock. I believe that agribusiness is important.

What I also think is important is to open our eyes to agribusiness, to the potential we have for a much more efficient economic exploration than we have today. Today we export commodities, we export soy, we export meat, we export eggs, we export everything. This is not efficient. We have a huge potential, for example, to make food, process food, process this soy and these vegetables for our own food, right? Instead of allocating all this vegetable wealth

to the food of the animals. What's' food. What's the problem?

What's the problem? From your point of view, as long as you don't eat animals. I don't see it like that. How do I eat animals? I eat animals. Going back to the ethical question, in my ethics, everything is fine.

In yours, it's not. And that's it. We go back to sum up our discussion in it's not cool to kill an animal to feed ourselves because this is exploitation

This is the basis of all of you so far that I understood

I would like to make a minute here The question of veganism expands to other things besides the animal Like, for example, we don't use tested products in animals, etc. But I don't think that's the point I want to know, so Today, and this here with a legitimate curiosity, right?

As my colleagues say, we have 240 million animals, we have billions of chickens, billions of pigs. Wouldn't it be more efficient for us to use the grains that we feed?

And here I'm not even talking 100%.

No.

Can you develop a little bit, please?

It's not more efficient. It's much more efficient for you to work... I'll tell you why.

The conversation.

No, the conversation. Yes. Exactly. You... Let's talk about the conversation.

Okay.

You first have to start from a platform... From what... All your base here... What is it? It's not good for your health or for the environment? It's not good for the environment, I understand. Health or environment? At this point I'm talking about environment. Ok, great. I think the truth, what I'd like

is that none of us plant or create. I recommend we each take a tool and go to your own space, search on Earth and find your own food. It's impossible to live in a world like this.

You said that choices can't be made.

But you can't... This wouldn't be an argument in the sense that you're reducing to the absurd. We know that we can't live without electricity.

But our question is to reduce our impact and in animal exploration. Let's talk about corn. One of the main sources of animal feed is corn. But do you know that corn, except for DDG, that goes to animal feed, is not the priority of corn? Do you know that corn is the priority of Brazil?

It's biofuel, absolutely. Yes, yes. It gives a lot more biofuel the DDG. The DDG is the leftover and used to feed the cattle. We don't plant corn to feed the cattle. Do you understand what I mean? So, we plant corn for biofuel.

Today, corn is as important as sugarcane in Brazil. It's almost surpassing sugarcane. So, today, we take away, including the sugarcane, everything we produce with sugar cane, which is sugar, or we can produce biofuel, the rest is used, what's left, the waste,

is used for food. What's left of the corn is used for animal food. I'll ask for an excuse, because this is something that's not really in my...

I'll ask another colleague to come and talk.

Perfect.

I just wanted to add some arguments that you've made, Richard, that I found interesting. You said that agriculture gives more money than livestock. Agriculture is giving... What will happen in Brazil? We have 8% of Brazil that is open to agriculture

and 15% to livestock. Except for the areas that are already open, because in the south, the Pantanal is already there. We have to understand that there is an ethical importance. Because your ethics is one and ours is another. I believe that ethics should not be elastic.

But, okay, let's get out of the situation of animals. It has to be. If it's get rid of animal insemination. Then you'll say, no, I'm right. So, okay. So, let's go to the economic agenda you said. Agriculture gives more money than livestock. Agriculture will start to invade the land. You said there are areas where there are large agribusinesses and they are underdeveloped There are more poor people. We talked about it. If you said it, it's recorded. No, I didn't say that. I said that agro takes the wealth.

For those who own the land, not for the workers, not for the region. But we noticed that... We were talking about the economy. Come here. Does every poor person want to get rich? Or not? Do they want to continue poverty? No. Does every poor person want to evolve, want to grow in life, or do you want to continue being fucked?

Let's say, let's make this clear.

Or not? No, it's a question. Or do we want to be poor? Because we created in Brazil a war between poor and rich that doesn't exist, ok? It doesn't exist. A guy who takes a job, someone who's an entrepreneur and who hires you to work. Nobody is saying there's an exploration for that.

You turn that into an exploration. There's no such thing. They need to work. They need to work and take the wealth. The cities today... The cities...

Let him speak.

The cities where agro came from... You're going to look at Mato Grosso. What does Mato Grosso want?

I'm worried because we talked a lot about data, and you have a lot of expertise. You have more than 30 years of experience.

Of field.

You have a lot of knowledge. I've thought a lot differently than I do today. What I'm thinking is, how can we bring a more practical and easy example about the energy issue, right? About having a more efficient model. Well, let's go there.

You won't like it if I say it.

Let's go, let's see. Nuclear. No, wait. I'm not talking about electricity. I'm talking about energy. Energy is a big expense. I'm talking about calories. Calories. A ox has a very different biological need than ours. It's water, protein, carbohydrates, fat.

It's something very different.

No, right? So much so that they supplement vitamin B12 in the diet and by injection, right? So it's not that meat has B12, it's supplemented. So everyone, literally, directly or indirectly, is supplementing B12.

No, no, no, no, it's not because it's... This is an affirmation you're making, that you have no scientific basis. You're saying that B12 in meat... Wait, you're saying that meat has B12? No, I'm saying yes, but you're saying that B12 in meat is what we're taking.

This is a lie. No, I didn't say that. That's a lie. That's what I said. I can have expressed myself badly. What I meant to say is that everyone who eats meat or vegetables today is... The meat has naturally B12.

It's okay. Because we're not talking about chicken. It's okay, but, just to continue. How many Brazilians are there today? About 203 million. And we have 224 million cattle heads. The ox or cow will consume more water and grains

than we eat daily, right?

The ox and the...

I'm not even talking about fish, chicken, pork. I'm talking about the ox, 224 million. It has a greater caloric need than yours, than mine. An ox.

You can't compare. It's like agriculture.

No, I'm talking about the little ox and how much it eats. Because it's a matter of... It eats, of course. Energy efficiency.

It's a beast of a ton, half a ton.

Exactly. What we're trying to say is that if you do a bypass, if you take the ox and the cow out of the equation, and you directly consume the products they feed on, you'll have more food wealth, you'll have more health, like several studies I brought here. I have a study here showing a reduction in biological age in two years, after only eight weeks of plant-based diet.

This is not a joke, guys. I have a link here, I have the full address. This is a fact. This is a fact that plant-based diet is superior. So, this is a... No, several studies,

so much so that the blue zones... Richard, the blue zones...

This is a... This is a scenario. You've never seen a study that meat is necessary for diet.

Speaking even about...

A child was born. Let's get a child. Do you have a child? I do.

Since he was born. Since he was born? 937 days old.

That was the option of having a child since he was born?

We are all hostages of our culture.

No, because we are omnivores by essence.

You eat meat because it was the culture of your parents. I ate meat because... We are omnivorous since our formation. Richard, I'm not denying biology. You're going to compare your canine to that of a carnivorous animal? You're moving your jaw. We are. We are. We are omnivorous.

The point of view of energy efficiency, plant-based diet is superior. Ok. It's a fact.

Ok, fine. That's not why I'm going to change my diet.

If you didn't give me an element that would make me really want to change for that.

I brought you scientific material.

Yes, I'll bring you more. There are many other materials. You can look at it. No, no, OK. This is a job. This is a job.

OK? on the other side, there are other jobs that recommend you eat meat. So, like... Guys, just open the internet, google it. Google it. Google it. I didn't want to say it, but nutritionists say that who makes a child choose... There are things... I'm not me, ok? I'm not me. If you choose to give a vegan diet to your son, you take away his opportunity to choose.

Think about it. Think about it. No, you pushed what you wanted under his gullet.

Agrobusiness.

Can I go?

You didn't come at all? You just shook the piece?

I'm waiting for you.

I'm waiting.

Agribusiness.

Who?

Sustain Brasil.

Well, it's complicated to debate because it's freestyle science. And it's Richard. Let's be careful with that. A very quick one you brought. You pointed to the canine. Which is the biggest canine in nature?

Which animal is it? Answer in 10 seconds. is It's not related. Let's go back to the agriculture agenda.

So, elephants are also canines?

No, that's not a canine.

What comes out of the mouth?

They are trapped. Elephants are trapped.

What kind of material are they made of?

Marfinha.

Marfinha, yes.

The ones that come out of the front of the hippopotamus are not.

No, I was talking about elephants. I was answering the elephant. The elephant martini. Well, let's go.

Agro is responsible for 5%, approximately 5% of GDP. Why do primates eat, then?

But how do we get back to agro?

Okay, let's get back to agro.

It's not that you pulled the prey, maybe...

No, I said it was Let me be unsatisfied. Agro is responsible for 5% of Brazil's GDP. Do you agree or not? What's the data? I don't know. But you don't agree and you don't know?

I don't agree. I doubt it's this number. It's freestyle science, Rich. It's not how it works. It's IBGE data. Approximately 5%, 5.3%. Well, we're going to put the links of everything we...

Well, let's waste some time here, then, looking for the 5% data of the GDP.

Let's go, let's go.

Here...

I asked you what the data is. I don't have it. But you already said that I'm wrong. No, I'm saying that I doubt it. No, it's 5%. 5.4%,

the industrial sector 25.5% and the service sector 52.4%. This is from the IBGE And this affirmation that agro-sustains Brazil comes from where? I think it's cool

I'll take this to you Let's separate the big agro and the small agro There's a lot of difference There is! Let's go! The agro is agro. There's a difference. Tell us the difference between the big agro and the small agro.

You're trying to take it to one side. No, no, no. Let's debate the data. Let's debate science. Let's not make it a freestyle science. What's the difference between the saffron plan?

You should know. It only affects the agriculture. It affects a lot. Because you have the saffron plan, the saffron plan is 25, 26, if I'm not mistaken, 527 billion reais, that's in the year, and the saffron plan for small production reaches 87 billion.

Small production has about 75% of the workforce and 25% of the area. So there's a lot of discrepancy when we bring all the agro together. I agree with you.

And you make this statement that agro has only one agro. There's the small and the big, but agro is one. It's not when you have access to a very different herb. Public policies are very different from the small and the big agro. But let's go, complement.

Environmentally, environmentally,

big properties are better than small properties. It complements. Environmentally, environmentally,

big properties are better than small properties. And you can disagree as much as you want.

This is the practice of the ones who show...

But is this your freestyle science or not?

No, if everything I said... You brought a paper. Let me see your paper.

Let me see.

Have fun. Have fun. No, have fun. It's IPCC, which is a great scientific reference.

The IPCC, it collects thousands of scientific studies and brings notes of what I was trying to say from the beginning.

You printed a lot of things here.

I'm not disagreeing with you. You are anti-science.

You deserve the data. What does this make you? And I'm not disagreeing with you. But I'm not disagreeing. But I'm not disagreeing.

What does this make you a vegan? This proves it. The 5% of agriculture or not, if the industry stops, you will continue to live. If the agro industry stops, you're dead. You too.

Of course! That's why I'm in favor of agro. I'm not saying bad things about agro.

Let's split it.

I think agro is sensational.

Do you agree with the statement that agro sustains Brazil?

What?

Do you agree with that statement?

It sustains all of us.

5% of GDP.

But it's not a matter of GDP. If agro stops... If agroindustry? Do you know what agroindustry is? Richard, you're using freestyle science. You use freestyle science, Richard. You came with an academic side, printing a lot of things, and didn't impress me. We study to bring data, and the friend here is freestyle science. That doesn't justify anything you're saying. Okay, you brought data, which proves what?

You brought data, which proves what?

That you're wrong data that proves what? That you're wrong.

Prove what?

That agriculture is not important in our country?

I said it's not important.

So what's your point? And then, what changes?

I didn't ask you.

Brazil's support.

People, you finally came.

The agro, I didn't say that the agro is the most... Without the ag Guys, you're finally here. I'm not always in Brazil. Agro... I didn't say that agro is the most... Without agro, we're dead here. Without your cell phone, you live. Cell phones have 17% of plastic, since you studied a lot, 17% of plastic, 45% of minerals,

some of these minerals are exploited in the worst possible way, but you use your cell phone because you can't see. And we're talking about agro, and when we have mining, we have agrotoxin. So, what about this agro? What about this agro that you have every day? And isn't that a problem? No, but without defensives, I don't call it agrotoxin, I call it defensives. Without defensives, of course, but without defensives, we'll have to have more land to plant. It's that simple.

It's you, my daughter.

Hi. How are you?

I'm fine, trying to survive. Let's go.

Let's go.

Play it.

Please, since you're the last one.

So let's go. I wanted'd like to stop this controversy now. I'd like to go back to the subject. We were talking about PET, and we were talking about veganism, and I think I didn't want to bring the environment at this moment,

I didn't want to bring the health issue, I wanted to bring, mainly, what makes people become vegans.

Can I ask ask something first? Yes. I asked if people here... No? People here have dogs, right? And cats too? What the fuck are you going to feed these animals?

No, but I wanted to say something else.

Made of what?

Made of what?

Made of what?

No, I just want to conclude, like this. I want to conclude what I think normally makes people become vegan. I'm not discussing the feeding of pets, none of that. I have an animal, you, your whole story with animals, and I feel a very strong connection with them. It's a very big love. And when I see a cat, a dog, and I compare it to a ox, a pig,

for me it's the same thing. And when I ate these animals, I felt very contradictory. Because, in fact, if there was a pig here, I would be caring for it. I wouldn't be thinking of it as food. So that's what made me want to become a vegan. And I think that...

You said that you wouldn't have the courage to kill an animal. I wouldn't have the courage either. And I wouldn't like to keep financing people who are killing these animals. So that's why I wanted to become a vegan. I'm not saying that I'm against it, I'm just saying that I'm not a fan of it. I'm not a fan of it.

I'm not a fan of it.

I'm not a fan of it.

I'm not a fan of it.

I'm not a fan of it. You can live very well not feeding on them. I think that's the message I wanted to bring.

I totally respect that. I totally respect your choice in front of your life experience, your knowledge, and your personal exposures. I understand that perfectly. Wonderful. As long as you don't judge the next one who thinks differently, it's all good.

And here it ends up like this, I know everyone is excited to defend their point of view, you're going to bring the health points, you're going to bring a lot of things. And man, if I bring a lot of things, bring specialists, I'll tell you the truth, if I bring a nutrition specialist, but I can bring a lot of data here. You brought data here, and that's fine. But is this all based? No. Ok. But to circumstance your decision not to eat meat, I respect that a lot.

I've already questioned myself, I've already questioned myself, I said, can I sleep peacefully eating a piece of that wonderful and juicy steak? Am I going to sleep peacefully at night afterwards? And I sleep because I started to understand differently that the ethics you put in is not my ethics.

There are people who have completely different religious ethics, because if we think that you only believe in Muhammad and I in Jesus Christ, we're both going to kill each other. You believe in Maumé, and be happy with your...

I wouldn't like to bring up the word ethics because of that.

Because I think ethics is understood in different ways.

Exactly.

What I say is this, I brought my personal experience, and I think the question of veganism is very cultural. It's cultural. And I respect you, I respect my family, I respect my parents, I respect all people, I respect my parents, I respect all people. I think that vegans, no one has a gun in the head of non-vegans saying

you have to stop. At least I don't know vegans who say you have to stop.

You know how a guy who is not vegan feels now, since you are vegans? We feel like you condemned our choices, because your choice is so visceral, I understand that it is so visceral that it is difficult for you to admit that a person... You will look at a guy who eats meat and say, how can he do that?

This is a judgment, it is a prejudice. Prejudice is not only sex and body.

But I eat the same thing my whole life.

Prejudice is to think differently what a person thinks. I've traveled the whole world, and if you're prejudiced with so many different lifestyles that I see around, I'll be prejudiced, and I've opened my mind to that.

But I think we don't have that. Obviously, there are vegans and vegans, but I think in general, most vegans eat meat. And I've said it once, I would never stop eating meat. I've said it before, I would never stop eating cheese. I've been that person.

So I have this empathy.

I'm not...

I, like many people... There are many people who don't think about the subject. I've thought a lot about the subject. And one of the great positions I've said to justify my question... Because I would feel very bad if we killed animals here.

In a way that I wouldn't feel... At ease.

I...

If I could make a choice, I would like to feed myself with sunlight. It's impossible, ok? It would be great, because our footprint, regardless of what you eat... You have a footprint. If you're a vegan, vegetarian, or if you're a liver... You have a footprint. We all have an environmental footprint.

Our health choices. I know him, I see he's a strong guy. I can be here, I'll show you, go to Julião, he drinks a lot, ok. But you go to a guy, there are a lot of guys there, who are mounted, and who says, meat, I need animal protein, and their diet is protein.

So, I think it's a lot of choice, and I respect it. And it's visceral. It's visceral, your choice.

It's visceral.

No, wait, I'm still talking, I'm gonna fuck you. You brought me here, I came from the fucking house to come here, I was massacred by 20 people who hate me, and now I can't respect myself? I also have feelings! And the biggest feeling, to finish, I just wanted to know why at the party, because at my barbecue party,

I invite the vegans and there's a special dish for the vegans, I even do it somewhere else for them. Why don't you invite me to your party and give me a piece of steak? That's what I want to know, damn it!

You're invited. Richard, I think everyone... One day we'll talk and you'll be vegan, right? Pleasure, ok?

I was going to do... Is it still recording?

Is it recording? I even it still recording? Is it still recording? I was going to bring this here, guys.

Calm down, calm down.

Gentlemen, live and be happy. There are people who will live only with this here. And there are people who prefer to live with this here. Be happy with your choices. Be happy with your choices. One thing is certain.

It may be that they have a reason for health, it may be that it is another. We don't know, we don't own the reason and we know everything 100%. If someone tells you to follow that path because I'm sure it's right, this guy is wrong. There is no 100% right. Our science changes all the time.

And it's no use, you can laugh whenever you want, whatever you want Science changes all the time, and there's science everywhere This science you brought I'll bring another guy with a hammer like this, that will knock you down For sure And you'll get into that... You use the science that's good for you, another guy will use the science What I think is this

In the face of your choices that you make Be happy with your choice And don't bother the others If you don't bother the others. If you don't like this video, you'll eat a carrot for the rest of your life or a piece of this. Which do you prefer? This or this?

Which do you prefer? This or this? That's all I'm going to say.