13 Year Old Realizes His TWIN Brother Is A Killer In The Middle Of Interrogation

Barbing Barboo.

In Berlin, there is a very fancy department store and I'm going to butcher their name and I'm never going to be able to face a German person with nickname so I'm just going to call it Berlin's Barneys.Berlin's Sacks.You walk in and most things are going to be in the cases, the locked glass cabinets.The lighting is always pristine so everything looks so sparkly in there.It's like the trademark of every expensive jewelry store or department store.The lighting is so good.

You can make a plastic candy wrapper look like some naturally mined yellow diamond just sparkling in the light.That's this type of department store.And they don't just carry jewelry, they have very expensive watches.The ones where they say, oh sorry, that's only for exhibition, and then you have to buy like 10 other things before they let you buy the one watch that you wanted in the first place.There's a lot of money sitting in those cases, so much so that the store employs motion detectors.They have an extensive security system for the entire place, which is the premise of every good heist movie, every good heist TV show.

The plan is simple.Get in, grab the best stuff, get out, and don't get caught.Plot detail that must be included is the doors are all censored, impenetrable, however, there will be a skylight.You can just unscrew the nails, remove the skylight, throw in a rope, slide down it, just like the three masked men in Berlin will slide down the rope to partake in a... shop after midnight special where they get the entire store to themselves it sounds like a movie this is very much real life they take 6 .5 million dollars worth of fine jewelry and watches instead of leaving behind a credit card to finance their very rushed transaction if you will or their after pay details they leave behind a singular glove and inside that glove is a singular bead of sweat DNA evidence Authorities run the DNA.They get a hit.It's too easy.

Of course it is, right?It links back to someone with a criminal record for theft and fraud.Times two.What do you mean times two?Two counts of fraud?Two counts of theft?

What do you mean?No.The DNA links back to two people with criminal records for theft and fraud.So what, did they just change gloves in between and they both sweat into it?How's that possible?It's DNA.

Two people don't have the same DNA.Unless you're an identical twin.Two 27 -year -old brothers, H and A, are arrested based off of the fact that the DNA in the glove links back to them.So here's what we know.Three masked men, one glove with DNA belonging to one of the brothers.Only one of the twins could be involved, or both of the twins could be involved.

Neither of them are willing to talk or cooperate, which means it really could be either or.And that's all the evidence they have.Nothing else.this is a real heist yeah in berlin so like what do you do you probably know it's three people They saw three masked men.

On the camera?

Yeah, but only DNA for one person was left behind, and they don't know which twin.They don't know if both the twins are involved, if maybe the two twins are two of the three people, or if only one of the brothers was involved.So what do you do?Do you throw both in jail just in case?You can't.

Wait, so DNA cannot identify which twin?

No.

Never?

You can now, but it takes sometimes a million dollars.

Wow.

And there's only a handful of companies in the world that can handle that.Both brothers, the twins, even though at least one of them was most likely involved in the heist, both of them have to be released because prosecutors cannot prove beyond a reasonable doubt which twin or both were involved in this case.Within the week, both twins are released before the case can even go to trial and the court writes in a statement, from the evidence we have, we can deduce that at least one of the brothers took part in the crime, but it has not been possible to determine which one.And the diamond heist in Berlin goes unsolved.Identical twins develop from a single fertilized egg.So that splits into two embryos.

So they essentially share the same nuclear DNA.And while it's not exactly the same, it might as well be, okay?A normal DNA test done in the event of a crime usually scans about 20 fixed markers.Because that's how different everyone's DNA is.And that still takes multiple days.20 spots in the DNA and compare.

If you're trying to find the difference between identical twins, because they do have differences, you would have to sequence the entire 3 billion base genome at ultra high depth.One sequencing expert describes it like this.Imagine the human genome consists of a three billion letter code.If the body is growing or an embryo is developing, then all three billion letters have to be copied.But during the copying process in the body, there are typos happening.Identical twins have the same DNA, except sometimes maybe about eight typos or a few cells will split and evolve differently here and there.

But again, it's on average about eight differences across the whole three billion genome.

So on paper, three billion should be identical, except the eight typos.

Yes.There's only a handful of labs that are capable of running this level of a test.And even if it's done, it costs taxpayers hundreds of thousands of dollars, maybe up to the seven figure mark.And a lot of the time it can't even be really used in court because of how novel it is.It's very easy for defense attorneys to get it thrown out or for them to confuse the jury with it.Is it going to get easier in the future?

Probably.Is it going to get cheaper in the future?Probably.But right now, is it a problem?I think so.Especially when in the United States, you have a case in Ohio of a woman who lives alone, getting essayed and murdered in her own room, in her own bed.

And the DNA left at the scene, it traces back to a set of identical twins.Two 13 year old boys are the main suspects of a rape and murder.But which twin is the guilty one?And how are investigators...to figure out which one is the killer?This is the case of the Carte twins.

We would like to thank today's sponsors who have made it possible for Rotten Mango to support the Joyful Heart Foundation who are working to transform society's response to SADVCA and support survivors healing with resources like education, advocacy, and policy change.This episode's partnerships have also made it possible to support Rotten Mango's team of dedicated researchers.We'd also like to thank you guys for your continued support.As always, full show notes are available at rottenmangopodcast .com.There is a brief mention of suspected SA and some quotes or statements may have been condensed for brevity.

Let's get into it.Becca and Kyle are no longer together, which is probably for the best, okay?By all accounts, it appears the two are much healthier when they're focused on co -parenting their twin sons.You've got Hunter Cart, who is two minutes older than Levi Cart.They're identical twins, but they look kind of more like fraternal twins than anything, which is just an observation.It's not like all identical twins have to dress the same or look the same, but it's just an observation.

Hunter and Levi clearly have their own styles, their own personalities, their own interests.They're two completely different people.Hunter has longer hair, almost down to his shoulders, and he seems, at least from the initial body cam footage, he seems to have a much more softer demeanor just based off of that.He seems like the type of student who would sit next to you if you're alone during lunch period.Meanwhile, Levi, who often goes by Louis these days, has more of the skater kid look.He looks a little bit scrawnier.

He does have long hair, but not in the way that Hunter does.It looks like a skater kid.

Why does Levi go by Louis?

He just decided he wanted to go by Louis one day.So everyone's been calling him Louis.So if you hear Louis and Levi interchangeably in the body cam footage, it's because they're talking about Levi.

But it's not legally changed, right?No, no, not at all.

Now he's got long hair, sharper jawline.He also appears to have a soft, quiet demeanor.But in a different way from Hunter, he seems like the type that maybe he wouldn't sit next to you if you're sitting alone in the lunchroom because he too is probably sitting alone is the energy that you get could i be wrong probably okay we don't know that much about them yet other than a match to their dna was found in a woman's bed denise's bed where she was killed But Becca and Kyle, the Cart twins' parents, they don't know that.Becca and Kyle are just concerned about how this ongoing police investigation in their neighborhood is going to impact their twin sons.Kyle texts Becca, I was telling Levi not to assume the worst, but I knew it was a bad sign when there's just that many cops with no lights on all standing around.Usually means they found a body and they're holding the site down until forensics and investigators arrive.

Was she killed at the house?They're talking about one of the neighbors on the street who was just killed in her house.And as much as the parents want to try and shield the teenage twins away from everything going on on the street, it's very hard to do that when you live, what, 50 feet away and the police are knocking at your door trying to get answers?They're knocking on everyone's door.The police investigation into what happened to 64 -year -old Denise has been both very straightforward and complicated all at the same time.Denise's brother, Daryl, is the one that finds Denise.

It's Sunday morning.They had lunch plans.She's not picking up.11 11 a .m.Daryl is messaging her.

Are you skipping lunch?Daryl doesn't know it yet, but she's already gone Within the hour he comes to her house He walks up to the front door and he goes to knock on the door and it just gets pushed open when he knocks The front door is unlocked.He walks inside andhe sees his sister inside laying on her bed.Her pajamas are ripped exposing her chest.Her pajama pants are ripped.

She has blood in between her legs.The blankets are covering her face and on top of the blanket there's like a Porcelain figurine like you know those collectibles that you see at those antique shops that have almost like a vintage feel to it But it's an angel figurine and it's placed on top of the blanket on top of her head So her face is covered with this blanket and there's this angel figurine on top of the blanket and Denise is not moving The crime scene is just really odd.Even when the police are walking in for the first time with their body cameras on, they're really confused by the scene.Because yes, of course, the angel figurine is confusing, but there's also other things.Like, they asked if maybe the brother, Daryl, had covered her up because he didn't want the police to see her like this, but they're like, no, dispatch said he found her like this.There's also a bunch of cleaning chemicals, like bottles of cleaning chemicals.

Pepto -bismol they notice like this pink liquid all over her and it's just someone poured pepto -bismol on her or maybe she drank it They're contemplating the investigators are like, well, maybe you should drink it.We don't know.Pepto -bismol is for acid reflex typically so you've got bottles of cleaning solutions pepto -bismol cleaning chemicals dumped on her body and just what?like are they trying to get rid of biological evidence?there's also blood splatter on the walls.the blood leads all the way out of her bedroom.

on the floor there's a trail of blood to the back door and then from the back door to the very back gate of the backyard fence there's blood there too.whoever did this though didn't leave any fingerprints so they're wearing gloves.police start scouting the neighborhood.they're going door to door.they're asking residents, can you take your shirt off?Because they found blood, hair, and DNA under Denise's nails.

And they're like, we just want to see if you have some scratch marks.So you just see body cam of neighbors taking their shirt off and showing them getting DNA swabbed.And of course, while investigators are checking for scratch marks or anything suspicious, residents are also sharing what they think happened, okay?One neighbor reports, it might be Dave.Dave?You know, okay, so it's around midnight.

She'd been sitting out on her porch, one of the neighbors, she's with a friend, and they're chit -chatting, and they see this balding white man with blonde hair, medium build, Dave, okay?His name is Dave.And he's drunk.He's drunk and walking around the neighborhood near Denise's property.That was Saturday night.

Is he a neighbor?

Yeah, he lives in the neighborhood.They go investigate Dave.They don't think it's Dave.One neighbor asks the officers, you guys think it's random?The officer asks him what he's heard.Well, from what I heard, you know a guy down in that new house over there?

A couple others.I was out here having my cigarette and I hear, uh, I think the brother did it and they're gonna arrest him in a couple days, like three days.

I'm like, what?

So they think the brother did it.Any reason why you would think that?

The brother of the victim?

Yeah, Daryl.I don't know.That's just the speculation right now.So he's just saying he's smoking a cigarette.He overheard neighbor saying the brother did it.The police do get sidetracked into a mini investigation into Daryl, the brother.

He's the one that called 9 -1 -1.He's the one that found his sister's body.He's relatively calm on the 9 -1 -1 call, but not in a particularly suspicious way.

Her legs are exposed and she's been stripped naked and there's obviously blood.

To me, it just sounds like he's trying to relay information as quickly as possible.But something that's very interesting to officers is that when the police originally walked in, they don't rule out the possibility of self -exit.The Pepto -Bismol, the cleaning supplies, they find some prescription medication in her house.I mean, it could be possible that she self -exited trying to ingest these chemicals.The blood could have been hers because she could have been throwing up blood from the chemicals.They don't know yet.

The investigators, they have no clue.There's a bit of blood sp -but again, maybe it's hers.Furthermore, one of the first things Daryl tells the officers is that he believes his sister was S8.How can he be so sure?They didn't think that when they first walked in.

Also, Daryl never performed any sort of life -saving measure to try and save his sister.He says he walked in and quote, well, she was laying on the bed with her legs spread and it looked like there was blood and, you know, on her head and stuff on top looked like someone tried to smother her and she looked like they ripped her thing open and I yelled at her and I didn't see no movement from her whatsoever.I just turned around and I walked out and I'm like, I can't.He doesn't try CPR.He doesn't try to save her.Not that I think it would have made a difference, but for those reasons, the police do investigate Daryl and it doesn't help that when they reach Daryl's home, It's a bit of a hoarder situation, and he explains to the officers, almost in an embarrassed way, that his mom had recently passed, and his sister had passed, so his home had gotten a little worse from the stress.

They check his body for scratches, and they check his DNA, and he is very quickly ruled out as a suspect.But it doesn't stop the neighbors from whispering on their porches and pointing their fingers.One neighbor particularly does not care who did it.They just want the police to make sure they get vengeance.And they quote say, find that fool and he needs to die.Police are like, this is a crime.

Intense neighborhood they go to the next door and this time they're right across the street from Denise's residence So they've actually knocked on this door prior, but nobody was home So they're coming back around after they've done their little you know, and a woman with bright pink hair opens the door Becca She's the mother of twin boys Hunter and Levi cart She talks with the investigators outside and she mentions the day that they found Denise.It's actually like a really busy day So it's been like a week since that and she's just saying oh my god like that day was reallyfor us.She explains that when all the ambulances had come onto the street Sunday morning, they weren't even home.Actually, Sunday morning at like 6 a .m.

, we had to run to the ER because my son, the cat I guess was sleeping on his face and they startled each other in the dark and it scratched him and so we were worried that it could be bad or infected.It wasn't a big deal, but it was just like traumatizing.And I was like, everybody get in the car.Cat scratches.Okay, that's very interesting.

So the police immediately alarmed that's going off, right?

Cat scratches in the middle of the night.The investigators want to talk to Hunter and Levi Cart just to ask them if they've seen anything weird or strange outside and Becca is a bit hesitant.She's just worried about how the news is going to be delivered to them.She doesn't...She doesn't want them super traumatized.They're only 13.

She was thinking about ways to break the news to them, but they seemed really stressed out this week.And just there's been a lot going on in the house.She mentions multiple times to investigators she would rather not use the M word murder if we could.

We both have kids and we both know.

OK, we're not like the M word is scary.We're not going to.give them any details, especially if you don't want to do.They have to talk to you.

Is that like?No, we just figured this would be a cooperative.I just no, not at all.

You know, she's worried about how it's going to impact them.They're just in the seventh grade.They've been homeschooled, but also there were about to move out of state.So there's just a lot going on.The investigators quickly find out that the twins, they are 13 and they are very young, but they both do like watching true crime documentaries.But that doesn't make them somehow better candidates to finding out that a particularly cruel and random crime just took place across the street.

So they decide that they're going to be a little sensitive with it.The twins, maybe it's shock or just their outwardly reactions.They take it pretty well.I mean, I guess as well as you would hope two 13 -year -olds take it.Levi Cart is just listening to the news of what happened to Denise, their neighbor.He nods his head up and down.

He's got his arms crossed.He's more in shock and how it relates to him.He's like, you know, this random day we had to wake up trying to do photos.And then it's this.

What does that mean, do photos?

Yeah, what does that mean, right?So the Cart family explains.Okay, so we're actually like a week or two of moving out of state to Long Beach, California.And so we actually had an appointment that day, Sunday, for the real estate agent to come and take photos of the house so that we could put it up on the market.So we've been really busy like all weekend trying to make the house super clean and just get ready for the move and That's the day that Denise is found.So it was chaotic.

Meanwhile, Hunter has a more true crime investigative approach.Hunter responds, I don't know how many case details you can put out, but like, what do you guys suspect?Or what do you guys know about what happened?He's asking questions.The investigators aren't about to debrief a 13 -year -old kid about their investigation.They just respond, well, I can tell you this.

It shouldn't have happened, and we need to figure out why it happened so that hopefully we can keep it from happening again.Because we hate to miss on some evidence, and if you've watched enough TV, you know, we don't want to be those cops that forgot to do this or look into that.Hunter's like, I've watched plenty TV.

because we'd hate to miss some evidence.And if you've watched any TV, we don't want to be those cops that forgot to do this or look into that.We have watched plenty.You know what I mean?

They love watching the true crimes.Becca mentions, you know, like they're both really into true crime.And Levi shakes his head no.But Hunter interjects, me and my brother, especially my brother, know a lot.I would say definitely my brother knows a lot about just the police in general.

Me and my brother, especially my brother, know a lot.Definitely my brother knows a lot about Levi just looks over at Hunter kind of looking at him like what do you say?

What do you say and their mother informs the investigators Levi wants to go into the Marines when he gets older Oh nice nice.Well recruitment is always here.So the policeare just going along with it.

But they are very suspicious.

Yes, because of the cat scratches.I do not believe there's in any world where Becca has any sort of inkling or belief that one of her twins has anything to do with what happened to Denise across the street.So my next question is completely unrelated and hypothetical for parents out there.If you have more than one kid and you get a call from jail, does your brain immediately jump to one kid over the other?Where it's like, oh, it's probably my second kid because they're a little bit more wild.Or it's probably my first kid because they're a little bit more wild.

They've had run -ins with the law before.Do you immediately think of one child before you hear the voice on the phone?When the investigators talk to the Cart twins, it's been about a week since Denise's murder.And the investigators, they start asking him about the past weekend, the weekend that Denise has killed.What were you doing?Do you remember anything?

Investigators ask the twins separately.So they're still in the cart house.They haven't gone to the police station or anything.They're just standing in the living room.And Hunter is like, well, that weekend was a blur because so Hunter was really sick.Hunter's explaining, like, I was throwing up for a few days straight.

I couldn't even leave the bathroom.And Levi had to go to the ER because the cat scratched his face pretty badly.Interesting.And he says, yeah, that whole weekend was a blur.They ask Levi the same question, and this is again separately, and he more or less is the same thing.And he says, that weekend, was a blur.

That whole day was just kind of a blur for everybody.I don't know, a lot of it's a blur.

It's an interesting word choice, like not one that I would often use to describe my weekends, but like maybe that's just me.The investigators are a little puzzled by it, I think.They get the twins together.Now they're both sitting on the living room couch while the investigators are telling them about what happened across the street.And maybe in an attempt to reassure the investigators they can handle this type of tense, Information Hunter mentions that the two of them are much more mature than the other kids are.age, especially Levi.

Me and Lewis have both agreed that him especially is a lot more mature than most.kids our age.

Which I would think normally seems like a compliment, but Levi looks a little confused where this is all coming from, why Hunter keeps yapping.Hunter even brings up Levi's injuries.He has other scars on his back from another surgery that he did, and now he has the new one on his nose from the cat to add to it.And Hunter asks Levi in front of the officers, how does it feel to have three scars?And Levi is just staring at his twin brother, deadpan in the face for a long time, not really answering.Eventually, the investigators want to leave, but not before collecting both of the twins' DNA.

Cheek swabs for DNA testing.And it comes back a match for both.But that doesn't mean that they're both guilty, but because they're identical twins, they share the same STR markers, like I said, which means the police now need to find out if one or both of the twins are guilty.

So when it came back a match, did we see how they reacted to that or we don't have that information.

We're going to see.

Yeah.

So the investigators they go back to the house, but they don't immediately say any of this Their whole objective is to get the twins and Becca to the police station where they can separate the twins record their reactions And start interrogating them.Okay, so they've got like a very tricky Balancing game that they have to do of trying to get them there without officially detaining them because they can't So it's this weird back and forth of like let's it's just if you have to okay So the DNA could point to both the twins.You can't just arrest both preemptively because it's one or the other.All of this is very tricky and it's even trickier because they're both minors.So they come up with this profoundly dumb plan, the investigators.We're just going to go to the house and see if they'll come back to the police station.

I don't even think they had a plan.They go back to the cart house and the family back to the police station.Hunter and Levi are walking back in with a bag of canes Raising canes and their drinks.They're just about to sit and eat when the police asked them Why don't you guys come to the police station?Like do you mind coming with me to talk about what happened across the street?And Becca's like, sure.

But then as she's getting ready to go, Becca's like, wait, why do we have to go to the police station?Like, last time you guys just came to the house and you were talking to us, like, why do we have to go to the police station?And she even asked, do we need to be getting lawyers or something?I'm feeling nervous about this.You're welcome to call an attorney.

Do we need to be getting lawyers or something?I'm feeling nervous about this.

You're welcome to call an attorney one of the twins Levi seemingly agrees with his mom and he's asking Also, do we have to go like is this a right now thing or is it like a we would like you?You don't have to do anything.

I suppose like do we have to go to display?

Right now thing or we would like yes, it would make you don't have to do anything The whole energy is so tense in the house You don't have to go, but also like, I'm just going to stand here as a police officer and not leave.So now it feels like you kind of have to go, doesn't it?Becca points out, OK, I don't know.I feel uncomfortable.And even in my dumbest days, I would not think this is a smart plan for the cops.But they say, how about we get out of here?

And we kind of explain what's going on.

I don't know.I feel uncomfortable.

How about we get there, we can explain kind of what's going on, give you some more info, and you can always, you know.

OK.

So they're like, let's get out of the house so I can explain what's going on.Can you explain what's going on before we head out of here?Do you mind if we do that outside?The investigators get the entire family onto the front lawn, and they're all awkwardly standing there, still holding their Raising Cane's food and their drinks, like hunters holding two red soda cups.they're just outside and it's weird and it's confusing Yeah, the officer tells them well, let's go to the police station So we don't have to like stand in the rain and talk about it So you went from inside the house and say let's go outside and talk about it.Now.

It's raining outside It's drizzling and then he's like, well why stand out in the rain when we can go to the police station?

So they're playing by the year.

Yeah, no plan.

No plan Let me just move them one inch at a time.

Yes, exactly I mean again, I'm not saying the police aren't doing their jobs, but was this really the best that they could come up with?It's just a little odd.He says that he has some pictures He wants to show them and talk to them about certain things Because like are we under suspicion or something?We just want to talk to you I think you guys could help us clear a lot of things up around here Eventually, Becca agrees.She gets placed in one car, the twins in the back of another squad car.And of course, the cameras are rolling.

Perhaps the authorities were hoping for some kind of Isabel Valdez, Lois Lippert situation where they just start yapping in the cop car about how they committed a crime.But they do not get that.But the energy with the twins is weird.They're in the back of the police car, still holding their food.And Hunter says, I mean, it's probably more questions.So, I mean, there's nothing we can't talk about.

Levi's like, yeah, I don't know what's going on.Neither do I. Levi mentions, this is all very, very unexpected.

Wait, but there's nothing that we can't talk about.

Yeah, I don't know what's going on.Neither do I. It's all very, very unexpected.

His voice doesn't sound surprised, though, or like he was not expecting it.It just sounds like, just weird.Hunter has a slightly more normal response, and he mentions, my anxiety levels are through the roof.yeah i don't know why there's so many police vehicles either yeah that's definitely what scared me seeing all those cops immediately pull up like one person's there you know didn't see that other cop pulled up right yeah i was just likewhat's the reason for that?I don't know.

Maybe it's an intimidation tactic, I guess.But why would they need to intimidate us?Right.

I don't know why there's so many, like, police vehicles either.

Yeah, that's definitely what scared me.

Seeing all the cops immediately pull up.

Like, one person's there, didn't see that other cop pull up, and then...

I was just like, why are they...What's the reason for that?

I don't know.Maybe it's an intimidation tactic.

Yeah, it's just a weird interaction cuz I feel like either you're not talking about the case or maybe you're like god I was hungry and I just wanted to eat like what's wrong with the cops or you're just quiet or you're talking about something else When they get to the police station, the twins are separated from Becca.They come in through a completely separate entrance, which seems to be a bold and deliberate choice by the investigators, which I think is kind of questionable.Becca can sense what they're doing, and she does not like it one bit.So she was hesitant at the house.She was a little bit agreeable on the front lawn, but still hesitant.Once she gets to the police station, they bring her into a separate room, and she's like, No, okay.

They're trying to distract her.They keep trying to get her to eat her raisin canes and she's like, I don't want food I want to get us our lawyer because she's like I did not think that I was kind of come to this police station And not see my kids.I'm supposed to be with my kids.They're 13 years old Why are you talking to my kids without me?

I don't want food.I want to Our lawyer and have my children stop being questioned Without a lawyer present immediately.

What are they telling her exactly?

She's like, oh, we just want to talk to you guys We just want to talk to everyone.

She's like, where are my kids?

Yeah, she's like, well, you can't talk to them without me there because I'm their mother and their minors Yeah, she's like I want to get us our lawyer and have my children stop being questioned without the lawyer being thereimmediately So let's make that happen.I think she is rightfully protecting her underage sons.Like none of this is Out of the norm, like this is actually what a good mom should do.Now the police, however, they try to stall and their stalling methods are beyond me.One of the officers compliments Becca's slippers saying they look so comfy.

Where'd you buy them?And Becca's like, yeah, they are comfy.And she's like, really?I know you're being friendly, but I need to know that my children are not being questioned and that they have a lawyer.You didn't let us know that we were being detained.

Those are just so comfy.They are comfy.Amazon?Not, uh, yeah.Are they Amazon?

Yeah.

I find the best things on Amazon.

People are so against it.

Really?I know you're being friendly.I need to know my children are not being questioned and that they have a lawyer.Because this is..

.You're not being detained.You're free to go.You didn't let us know that you were detaining my children.They're free to leave.Right now?

They're allowed to leave right now?Let's go right now!Right now!You said they're allowed to leave.Yes or no?You cannot take them.

You didn't let us know that we were being detained.

You're not being detained.You're free to go.

No.You didn't let us know that you were detaining my children.They're free to leave.You did not.Right now?They're allowed to leave right now.

Let's go.Right now.Right now.You said they're allowed to leave.Yes or no?

You cannot take them.Okay, I don't know what the police are saying at this point.They also take Becca's phone So she can't even contact her lawyer which all of this really the investigators are working hard to create a migraine -inducing headache for prosecutors later like the DA's office is not gonna like any of this and Technically, I do believe in Ohio There's no absolute rule requiring a parental lawyer to be present before police question a minor But the way that they're handling this I would imagine could invite some legal murkiness to say the leastThey have Becca in that one room of the police station.Hunter and Levi are separated in different rooms and they are now going to start questioning the boys separately, simultaneously to get their stories.Levi is obviously going to be the main focus mainly because of his curiously timed cat scratches on his face.

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It's college without the chaos.Seriously.See, everything Southern New Hampshire University has to offer at SNHUedu slash rotten mango.And Levi is sitting there in this small interview room.He has like that slouched, relaxed body language of a 13 year old, even though this is a very, very serious day for him.

He's wearing a hoodie and he somehow looks like he just woke up.He has his Raising Cane's styrofoam container in front of him, a red soda cup with a straw in.

So there's just holding this bag and not eating at all the whole time?

Yeah.So they separate like Levi is the one holding the bag.So they're getting him to open check which one is his because some people got the coleslaw, some people got the fries.They bring the styrofoam containers to the other two so everyone has their food in front of them and the investigators keep encouraging all three of them eat eat and they're just like why am I here why am I not eating at home is any of them eating Levi is eating a little bit in the beginning but yeah they all stop because they're like I don't know I also think that they just start eating because please keep telling them to eat but Becca is not eating she's like where the fuck are my kids Levi says in the interview that there's a bit of context to the whole thing with the cat scratches, okay?So the family is moving to Long Beach, California in about a week, which means they're packing, they're boxing everything up, right?And, quote, you know, cats get weird, if you know that, when you're trying to move.

And we had just moved his playset so that, you know, he was, he probably thought, like, oh, something's happening.The officers want to know more about the cat incident, and Levi explains, well, okay, so the cat, Marshmallow, sleeps with my mom.Sometimes my brother, not really with me.So he woke up, you know, and Marshmello is laying on Levi's chest.And I woke up and I was like, what's going on?I was freaked out because I like felt something on me and I had had sleep paralysis before.

So I was kind of like freaky.And then I tried to touch him and he got obviously scared.He was like, what's going on?Probably.So he started scratching at me, started scratchingmy face.

And he well, he first started scratching at my arms because I was like trying to get him off of me because I didn't know what was going on.So like he scratched my face.You couldn't really see it.You can't see it anymore.But yeah, he like scratched my face here.And then he scratched me with his biggest claw, which we've been knowing we needed to cut for a while now for a long time.

Like he scratched me on the nose, like right here, really, really hard because we both like extremely spooked each other.Just like a lot of.Scratching going on but now that he thinks about it Levi questions Maybe the cat heard something outside because that was the night that Denise was killed across the street So like maybe the cat was like extra spook because animals can sense stuff like that's kind of what he's hinting at What does this scratch look like on his face though?Now he had stitches he had five stitches on his nose in the hospital It's been about a week since then and the scratch has healed pretty well.So But he's saying there were other scratches and they seem to be primarily gone like it seems mostly gone Okay, so the face like doesn't look very it's like a like a scar on the nose, but it's not Wow, oh my gosh, you got messed up by the cat.It's just like a nose now.

Maybe even he Woke up or he was up and he got freaked out because of he heard a sound none of us did and Then he went and got on me. I mean, he sleeps with my mom sometimes or my brother.Not really with me.Right.Um, yeah, he just like, he woke me up, felt like he was like right here.Well, you just, um, so I was like, you know, I woke up and I was like, what's going on?I was freaked out because I felt something on me.

Uh, I have had sleep paralysis before.Uh, so it was kind of freaky.Uh, and.Then I, like, tried to touch him, and, like, he got scared.obviously scared.He was like, what's going on?

Probably.So he started scratching at me.He started scratching my face.Well, first he started scratching my arms because I was trying to get him off of me because I didn't know what was going on.So he scratched my face.You couldn't really see it.

You can't see it anymore.But yeah, he scratched my face.You can see this here.And then he scratched, I think, his biggest claw, which we've been knowing we needed to cut them for a while, a long time.He scratched me on my nose, like right here, really, really hard, because we both extremely spooked each other.

And so maybe Marshmello heard what was going on across the street, got freaked out, and scratched Levi?They're like, that's a pretty deep cut for a cat named Marshmello.I mean, to be fair though, Levi's mom does explain that she felt really bad about her son getting scratched by Marshmallow because they all knew that they had to cut Marshmallow's nails for a while, but they hadn't gotten around to it.And investigators, they need to make sure that they're not so distracted by Levi's cat scratches that they miss other details that might be important, like the fact that Levi has a twin brother, Hunter, whose DNA was also technically found at the scene because they share the same DNA.Levi is an over explainer.He likes to go in -depth explaining everything that's happened to him with the cat.

But Hunter, in his own way, is also a talker.He's sitting in the interview room with the two officers, he's eating his raisin canes, just telling the police about his life story, he's talking about how they're about to turn 14 next month, and he mentions, when it was mom's birthday, me and Levi were play fighting and I pushed him and he ended up breaking his hip.Okay, interesting.At some point he realizes that the questions are starting to feel a bit more serious and he asks, can I stop eating?Because they keep telling him to eat.So I feel like he was, he felt obligated to eat.

and he's like can I just stop eating please yeah he doesn't feel comfortable he also reiterates that he doesn't feel pressured to answer any questions and he says I mean of course I feel a little pressure but I don't feel like I have to sign these papers I just know more suspicion is put on me if I don't answer any questions just so you know I don't feel pressured doing this I just feel a little pressured but I don't feel like I have to sign those okay I just know it's more suspicion is put on me if I don't answer any questions.He immediately starts the interview saying, can I say something?I want to say, I want to let you guys know.I know this is more so about me, but just letting you know, my brother, um, every time I talk about it with him, because I somewhat have a, I wouldn't say morbid curiosity, but I went online and looked up the news for it after you guys came in.So they're like, oh, interesting.You looked on Google what happened across the street?

You know, which in his defense, wouldn't everybody look on Google?Right.But it's important exactly what he looked up.It's one thing to Google murder on Blank Street.It's another thing to Google.How do police find DNA at the scene?

Composite sketch of killer on Blank Street.Right.So the investigators ask him, can you show me what you looked up?Do you have your phone on you?No, I don't have my phone on me.And even if I did literally the day a few hours after they came in.

Actually, I don't remember if it was the day before or what.But my charger broke in my phone, and it stopped working.And then we were able to get the piece of the charger that was broken in out, and now it's charging fine, but the battery's basically fried.So unless I have it plugged in 24 -7, it's gonna turn off.And if I try to enter my passcode or turn on the lock screen or anything like that, it's gonna turn off.How'd that happen?

I'm not sure.For a while, my phone has had a crack in it because I used to have some anger issues.

For a while now, my phone has had a crack in it because I used to have some anger issues.Honestly, This kind of sucks because it really seems like...Obviously, I looked into it.I thought about it.my mom thought about it, and Lewis thought about it.That day he got scratches on his face because of that day he had to go to the hospital and then he decided to go to dad's house.

So then he wasn't up in the neighborhood.It all seems like a very lie coincidence, you know, because, of course, his face was scratched by a cat.

So he's almost like working through his thoughts out loud.which is like the last thing you want to do in front of the police but he's like no my phone broke and but like i also know that now that makes everything suspicious because i thought about it clearly my mom was thinking about it levi was thinking about it and then i know that like i don't think my brother would do it but like i know that he has the scratches on his face which are kind of weird he also mentions that his brother levi calls himself a narcissist but hunter is like but i i don't really ever think so but it's interesting that hunter mentions that he calls himself a narcissist not necessarily There's a lot of words I don't know and stuff, but he...

I don't think he could do something like that.But at the same time, there's so much evidence stacked up upon him.So there's also evidence that's stacked up against him.

So when they talk about Hunter's phone, he says the phone is cracked.If you open the case, it's like cracked because the glass is cracked.Because like I said, I threw it when I had some anger issues before.I used to get mad about games, like losing games.And then I would just throw stuff because I was just getting like really, really stressed out.He says that because of his anger issues, he also broke his computer.

Okay, interesting.The police are like, well, what were you doing Sunday morning?Was he also recovering from some scratches?Did the cat attack everybody?They asked him about the morning that Denise's body was found, the same morning that Levi was in the ER for getting stitches for the cat scratches.And Hunter says, so I went to bed and then I woke up at like... 830, 850, I don't know.

And my mom and Levi were gone, and I kind of freaked out for a second.And I checked my phone, because this was before my phone broke, and she was like, Levi got the cat scratched, so I had to go.

I don't remember if it was just mom or it was mom and Louis that came back home.

Investigators ask Hunter, has Marshmallow ever scratched anyone before?Like, is that why it's so crazy?No, he's never done anything like that.Does he usually sleep with Levi?No, not usually.That's why I thought maybe he heard something outside and wanted to protect Levi.

So Levi sleeps in the living room.So they thought, you know, maybe the cat heard something, freaked out, went to the living room, and then attacked Levi.But Hunter gets sick around this time.So after Levi gets back from the ER from getting those stitches, Levi actually asked to go to his dad's house.And mom and hunter think that's actually a good plan because hunter's throwing up non -stop.He's like so sick.

He's having explosive diarrhea He's vomiting at the same time and that lasts multiple days and whatever hunter has is probably contagious And with the commotion across the street, it's just a lot going on hunter remembers when he was in the bathroom He does recall seeing some blood on the sink.

It was like blood in the bathroom from where he had fallen or Anything like oh, yeah, um, there was like, uh blood on the sink and stuff.Okay, but um Like mom tried to clean it up, but there's still a little bit blood after So we just saw blood after because I started puking and we spent a long time in the bathroom And then she's like, oh my god, Louis got blood everywhere.I've got clean up some of this I was like, okay, so then it's I think it's gone now.Okay Was it like a lot of blood or a little bit of blood a little bit of blood?

It's interesting because the over explaining can come off suspiciousfor both parties, but I do feel like it's understandable when you realize they're both true crime documentary watchers.and this is actually something that i thought about in a lot more recent cases because i had this like run -in with a police officer recently like nothing was happening there was no like case or anything but i just remember i was like looking for where the body cam was on his body while i was talking to him about something completely unrelated because it's just interesting now that i watch so much body cam footage now i feel like i'm looking for body cam cameras because it's something that i think about and maybe the same thing is happening to hunter and levi because hunter even states to the police like Also, me stuttering has nothing to do with you guys being here, just so you know.He's trying to explain that he just stutters.So now he's going into this over -explaining territory of like, no, no, no, but I'm trying to be open with you.But then even saying I'm trying to be open with you seems like I'm not trying to be open.

He's over -explaining everything.Self -analyzing already.Yes.He even admits to the police that he watches a lot of body cam videos.also he goes back to explain you know like the whole thing of like levi calling himself a narcissist so he mentions it and he's like well i don't think so and he he explains he's like levi is just the one who always says that he you know he's always saying that he's this thing when he hasn't been diagnosed with anything like it like saying he's probably slightly manipulative like stuff like that just because his trauma has made him feel this type of way honestly it's really upsetting for me like he knows all the um I don't know, I don't want to call it disorders because I don't think that's what it is, but sociopath.It's obviously a very wide range of things, but from sociopaths to narcissists, personality disorders to stuff like that, basically, he knows a lot about them and what they mean.

I think it's because he does a lot of research into it because he thinks or he knows that he's slightly manipulative because he has trauma and he's very much so expressive and we talk about all of our feelings and I don't know, we're all going through a lot of therapy.

He's always saying that he's this thing when he hasn't been talking.with anything like it.He's probably slightly manipulative, stuff like that.From sociopaths to narcissistic personality disorder, we're all going through a lot of therapy.

So it's almost like now he's just like preemptively telling police things.He's just talking a lot.He continues later to say, he's like, Levi is very, very open to us about how he's feeling, the way he feels.Like, I don't want to go in depth about it because I don't know.I think I'm probably using the wrong word, but I guess I don't know if it's like I'm incriminating him.I think I'm definitely using the wrong word.

But like talking about how he has all this trauma, especially abusive trauma when he was a kid, he certainly has a lot of potential to make somebody who has the mind to do something like that.And I know that because he's talked about all these things.

Wow, what is happening right now?

Yeah, now the investigators are like, what do you mean all these things?I mean, I know from him because he's told me because he's done research about it on the internet like his knowledge about what the difference between sociopath and the other ones and knowing how you know many to kill in order to be a serial killer and you have to kill people and stuff like that.I think it's just like he's just so happens to have a...Am I allowed to ask you guys anything?Sure.Do you guys have any suspicions?

Do you guys think he's a suspect possibly or am I crazy?Like, is he not a suspect at all?Is this just normal questioning to try and help solve some stuff and I just seem like a crazy person right now?

Do you guys have any suspicions?Do you guys think he's a suspect?Am I crazy?Is he not a suspect at all?Is this just normal questioning to try to help solve some stuff and I just seem like a crazy person right now?

Is he feeling connecting the dot in that moment?

It seems like from the beginning he's just like yapping yapping and he's an overshareand then as he's yapping he's like explaining well my brother would never do this i know he has some traumatic incidents in his childhood which also watching true crime documentaries i know that that can make someone more like capable of doing something like this So it's almost like he's like analyzing so you you know how people will be like, oh the three trademarks of a serial killer the dark triad of the personality right like it's almost like he studied that and as he's explaining Levi and why leave I could never do something because I think he walked in there thinking the police suspect Levi because of the cat scratches And it seems like he's trying to clear his brother's name But as he's talking he's almost getting more and more going down the rabbit hole What's his Levi's childhood trauma?

Did they explain or not really?

Yes, so he explained that his grandfather on his mother's side is in jail for heavy abuse.I believe his mom was a victim of her own father and maybe other family members were victims.But it seems to be related to childhood trauma in probably the worst way possible.Please just reassure him.You don't seem like a crazy person.Some of the stuff that you said makes sense.

" And I don't know, maybe this is a way for them to just keep him talking and Hunter clarifies, am I sitting here because he has those scratches on his face and because it looks like he's a potential suspect or am I just here to like clear some things?Like it has nothing to do with him possibly being the person who did that thing.I would say there's inconsistencies with what we know versus what you guys said yesterday and we're going to get more information hopefully.And it's interesting to watch because it appears that Hunter goes through weird stages.So the first stage is just explaining and almost like the true crime explaining of like,watch the body cam footage I know that we look suspicious, but I'm gonna tell you why we're not suspicious and like now me over explaining feels suspicious like now I'm stuttering and you think that's suspicious and then it goes to him being like I know my brother has all the things that could make him possible, but like, and then he's like, wait, am I doing too much?

Like, am I, I don't even know why I'm here.Why are you guys, why are we talking?Like he lost the plot, right?So he's like, do you guys suspect him or not?Right.And they say this vague language of like, well, we're just trying to get more information.

And that's when Hunter.starts defending his twin and he's like well his cat scratches seem like cat scratches and the cat has been acting weird yeah the cat was acting weird he's been acting weird the past few days because we've been moving stuff around so it's completely understandable that he'd freak out he's just like a very very very needy cat and coco our other cat was a kitten when we got her so she was just born for like a few weeks but marshmallow was a year old so it's possible he had some trauma and that's why he's very very needy and just now he's somewhat gotten used to us after I don't know, like a year or two.And then all of a sudden we start moving stuff around.So it's completely understandable that he would freak out.But to me, it's completely understandable that the cat attacked him because he freaked out because he was sleeping next to him and he woke up.And he tells the investigators, because it's clear the investigators feel like his twin brother had something to do with it.

Hunter tells them, I don't think he did it because like, I feel he's told me many times, like he's a very open person.He doesn't have the capacity to do something like that.Doesn't have the capacity to do something like that.

I don't feel he has the capacity to do something like that.And if he did, and he did impulsively, he would not be acting so, oh, I don't care afterwards.Most kids, if they killed somebody, they would tell their parents, unless they just didn't think it mattered at all.

Now, interesting information to sit on.Investigators who are also in Levi's room have a very different approach from Hunter's.It could just be that Hunterappears to be a bit more talkative and open to give out information without being asked, whereas Levi seems to give out a lot of information, but only when he's pressed on it.Once the officer is done reading Levi his Miranda rights, he needs to clarify and make sure 13 year old Levi gets it.With these in mind, do you want to have a conversation with me?

With these in mind, do you want to have a conversation with me?

Um, well, I guess it states that I can quit having a conversation with you.I'm not sure what this is like necessarily about.

Do you know what we're investigating?I mean, I know something happened on the street, across the street, across the street and in front of me, right?A woman was murdered, right?So we're trying to find out what happened, okay?So that's what we're investigating.The investigators asked him to walk them through Saturday night.

And like the wording is weird.Levi says they all went to sleep.Quote, so we all went to sleep and then honestly, it seemed pretty normal.

None of us really like woke up for a couple hours.Well, neither of them did.

How does...Exactly.Yeah, why would you speak for your...

Yeah.And then I think, I think at like 2 .30, maybe 2 .30 in the morning or two, I'm not sure, in that time area, my cat had randomly woke me up with all the lights off, like sitting on my neck.He says that Marshmello is sitting on his neck and he decides that he's going to freak out on Levi.Levi says that he gets scratched by the family cat Marshmello.He starts cleaning himself up.He goes to the bathroom.

Quote, there was a lot of scratches on me.

And then I've spent like three hours maybe or a long time Trying to like fix myself up three hours.

Yeah, and to give some context like fixing myself up or the reason why I didn't like Ask my mom or my brother or wake them up is because we're literally about to do photos that day like family photos For the house because they're gonna sell the house.He explains.I don't want to be this kid That's constantly waking people up or being like an annoyance when they're trying to sleep So I just try to clean myself up the best I could I try to like clean up after myselfHe also scratched my neck.Then I decided to take a shower because I was like, that's probably the best thing I'm going to do.So I took a shower and I spent like 30 minutes in there, a long time, and tried to see what was going on.

How do I explain it?The shower sprayer So like the handheld shower sprayer is kind of reflective.So I was trying to see what was going on.And I was like, OK, well, holy shit, this is really bad.He states he's in the bathroom for three hours.He's showering for like 30 minutes.

All of this seems like an awfully lengthy amount of time.But maybe it's just late at night.He doesn't really know how long it was.Maybe it wasn't three hours.Maybe it was 30 minutes.It just felt like three hours.

The officers ask him what he wears to bed because that should also have some cat scratches.I don't wear anything to bed.Nude?He sleeps in the living room couch nude.

He sleeps in the living room.

Yeah, he's been sleeping in the living room recently So he's just sleeping in the living room nude He says he has some sheets and there was some blood on his t -shirt that he uses under his pillow So he uses like a t -shirt as a pillow and he has some blood on there from when the cat scratched him This is all very weird.Now back to the shower.So he's in the shower and he explains, because of my disability as well, I used like a shower chair.

Usually, because of my disability as well, I used like a shower chair.I didn't use a shower chair because I didn't want to make a bunch of noise and make anybody up.Right, right.So I ended up literally falling, fell, and like hit my head on the shower hose.

He says the shower chair is outside the bathroom and he didn't bring it in himself because I'm also not like really strong enough to do that, so I never do that.Is it heavy?Yeah, it's pretty heavy.Well, not that heavy.Just like I know it's too heavy for me to have enough strength to pick it up.The police are a little confused because like, why not just tell your mom at this point?

He keeps mentioning the house photos and the detectives are like, well, you're not in the house photos.I know, but I didn't want to have to like wake her up and have her tired or have her be annoyed that I was getting her up super early and it was like 2, 2 .30.Now, by all means, it seems like Becca is not the type of mom to be upset.So the bleeding kind of stops and Levi decides to just try and eat and watch some YouTube.But he says, I was doing that and as I was watching YouTube, I was super exhausted.

He says he starts crying so loudly, that's what wakes his mom up.

And it's just interesting, like his body language to watch in there, like he has these, he'll yawn in the middle of a sentence and it's not a pause.It's not like he's pausing and getting bored and yawning, which would already be alarming in a police interrogation, but he'll just be talking about how he wanted to eat and watch some TV after he cleaned himself up.So he's like, I'm just going to sit down and eat and watch some TV.And then, and then I ate.It could be the stress of the interrogation, not that he's guilty.It's just a stressful thing to be in a crowded room with two investigators as a 13 year old having no idea where the lawyer is or where your mom is.

But it's weird.At this point, it's like 530 a .m.He says, thankfully, once he started crying, his mom came down the stairs and was like, are you OK?He says, no, not really.And I was still crying.

And she told me not to cry because I would make it worse.And then something to make this situation more funny, quote unquote, as soon as she went in the kitchen, she opened the cabinet and got the band -aids.So this entire time that I looked for band -aids for like 30 minutes, it was right there in the kitchen.But when he gets back to the house after going to the ER, he says that he was super emotionally triggered.He says the cat had scratched him.He starts seeing investigators outside, ambulances outside, across the street, and he just wanted to go to his dad's for a few days, even though that was never part of the original schedule.

But you didn't know what was wrong with Denise.Yeah, I just thought that it's just crazy.that it was crazy in my mind.And I started assuming, you know, like what had happened.

What did you think happened?I don't know.I just thought you thought it was a coincidence.I didn't think it was a coincidence.I was just jumping to conclusions.Mom was like, she probably just had an accident or she fell over.

And I was like, hopefully I was like, yeah.And even this right now is honestly starting to make me feel kind of emotionally triggered.When you get triggered, does it ever make you angry?No, just makes me sad.Sad.Or like hyper -emotional.

So it made me feel like really gross that something else had happened and I was already in an emotionally triggered state.So I kind of felt like really sick to my stomach and I felt really gross having to think about what if something happened to somebody right next to me or the house right in front of me and it made me feel really sad and I started crying even worse.Hunter didn't even know what to do so I decided to go upstairs so I could try and stop thinking about it but you know I didn't like having to think about something else was happening so I didn't have to feel worse.It's just weird.So he asks his dad to pick him up so that he doesn't have to think about something else happening to somebody while something had happened to him.And there's just a lot of cop cars.

And he stays there for probably a week trying to feel better until he comes back.Have you ever been in Denise's house?Levi responds, neither my mom, my brother or me have ever been in that house or even close other than, I guess, walking distance.But he does mention that Hunter, his brother, would mow lawns over the summer.But Levi isn't sure whose lawns he mowed.At some point, he mentions, I heard my mom and my brother, my brother loves true crime or something.

He's very investigative.He tried to search up the audio.I didn't hear it.Or I guess they said that there was like a 911 call, I guess.They or my mom said that maybe she had been raped or that somebody said that it looked like she had been raped.which in my mind, doesn't really feel like self -defense, if it was.

Doesn't feel like self -defense?Yeah.What doesn't feel like self -defense?

So the investigators are like, well, we don't really know what happened to Denise.Maybe someone went in there and Denise attacked them, like maybe it's self -defense.He's like, well, if she was raped, it wasn't self -defense.And it's just a lot of weird conversations happening.And at some point, the investigator says he's just trying to wrap his brain around this.Like the investigator is like, I'm just trying to wrap my brain around this entire case.

I don't know how it happened.There's two people there, but I don't know how it happened.And I'm just trying to figure it out.Levi responds, could have been three people.I don't know.

There's two people there, but I don't know how it happened.And I'm just trying to figure it out.Could have been three people.I don't know.I mean, there could have been more people there.

Was this?I don't know.

that there could be a chance that he's not capable of being the killer.Investigators find out that Levi has cerebral palsy, which is a group of movement and posture disorders.Cerebral being the brain and palsy being weakness or problems with movement.So usually this forms from an injury in parts of the brain that control the muscles.So it's not from the muscles themselves, but it's from the brain that controls the muscles.Now, investigators have to figure out if Levi Otherwise CP would make it so that it would be impossible for him to carry out an essay on murder.

And there's just a lot of people that live with CP that live completely normal lives where they play intense sports, where it's actually encouraged to play sports.for a lot of people living with that condition.And they live, you wouldn't even know that they have CP.But then on the other side, you do have people where it greatly impacts everything that they do.And it does make it very difficult for them to do things that an able bodied person would be able to do easily.

So they found out during this interrogation?

Yes.And they don't know where on that scale Levi is.Hunter and Levi's mom, Becca, is in the waiting area of the police station.So she's been brought out from the room where they kept telling her to eat the raisin canes.They bring her out and the twins' dad, Kyle, has since joined.And they're both just wanting answers.

Why can't they get the twins?Why can't the twins come out?Why can't they get their twins a lawyer?What the hell are the investigators talking to them about without them or the lawyers present?When there is a situation where identical twin DNA is involved, the best thing investigators can do is look for evidence that's not DNA related.And they find it under Denise's body.

The investigators come out to talk to Becca and Kyle, and they tell them it's not that they randomly targeted the twins.It's that, quote, I don't know what in the world happened.We're not talking to him anymore.I mean, he doesn't want to really talk anymore.I don't know what happened.We have a lot of other evidence, too.

I don't know what in the world happened.I mean, I can presume.I'm trying.We're not talking to him anymore.I mean, he doesn't want to really talk anymore.

She says, I don't know.They tell her it's not just the DNA.There's some certain things we're going to tell you that we have that are bad, okay?That watch that we showed you that belongs to one of the twins was alsoher body.

All right, that watch that we showed you was under her body.What?

Becca starts freaking out.She starts sobbing, alternating between putting her head in her hands to holding her chest.She's pacing the area.She seems like she can't sit still.She doesn't really even know what to do with this information, it appears.

Eventually she asks, what happens now?

Eventually, she's on the floor and she even apologizes to the investigators for being rude earlier.Out of all the suspects and perpetrators' parents, Becca seems like maybe one of the few that really tried her best.If you get the full FOIA file like we did, there is a lot of unredacted information that I didn't include because I don't know how relevant it is, but Hunter talks to investigators of how much their family has gone through, and it does appear that Becca has really tried to shield her sons from anything that could have happened.The fact that she regularly puts them in therapy encourages them to talk about their feelings.They even found her journal where she writes about she's trying to parent and by all accounts it seems like she genuinely is a good parent.The fact that she's been trying to be helpful this entire investigation, the fact that she is apologizing to being rude to the investigators, which in reality, I honestly think that she was still just protecting her children.

There's really nothing to apologize for.She never behaved in a way that made it feel like she was enabling her kids or shielding them from consequences or not participating in the investigation.But when she's told it's her son's DNA, his watch, and they found a piece of a green nitrile glove at the scene and a box of the same green nitrile gloves, in his closet.they've also found a pair of bloody l .l .bean boots located in his room with visible staining.

and now they'reof the twin brothers is going to find out that his brother is guilty as well.The officers leave Levi's interview room about an hour in to let him finish his food and really like sit with his thoughts.And when they come back in, the first question they ask him is, hey, do you think sometimes people do something that they regret that is out of character for themselves?Like, do you think they do something and they kind of get scared and they don't want to talk to or tell anyone about it?They ask him how his DNA ended up at Denise's house.

Levi asks, well, how is it my blood?That's what we're trying to figure out.

So we're trying to figure out, and I want you to help me explain this, OK?Why your blood would be in Denise's house.I don't know.Like, how is it my blood?That's what we're trying to find out.

They tell him that they took his DNA swabs and they compared it to the DNA in the house and Denise's house.And it's not only Denise's blood, but his blood is mixed in with it.It doesn't seem loud.He just asks, well, how does that work?Well, everybody's DNA is unique.Everybody has different DNA.

Everybody.It's like fingerprints.Nobody has the same fingerprints in the whole world.Even brothers?Even brothers.

Everybody has different DNA.Everybody.It's unique to one person.Everybody's unique.That's like fingerprints.Nobody has the same fingerprints in the whole world.

Even brothers?Even brothers.

Now, the match to the DNA was to both of them, but it's interesting that that's his response.And I think that's just what the investigators are trying to get at.When DNA is brought up again, he says, I guess everybody's is unique.I just mean, like, my brother is literally, well, my twin.I don't know how that would happen to begin with, how my blood would be at her house.

I guess everybody's is unique.I just mean, like, because my brother is literally, well, my twin.I just don't know how that would happen to begin with, how my blood would be in her house.

If Levi says it's not his blood, then whose blood is it?And there's nothing that Levi says.The investigators do the whole, well, we think whatever happened here is not malicious.We think it's a stupid mistake and that everyone needs to be honest so that we can talk about it.But when they say that, Levi responds, I don't think that murder is stupid, though.

I don't think that murder is stupid.

Which is like an interesting response.It's kind of odd.Back at the house, there's a search warrant being executed and investigators find Marshmello sitting very calmly just hanging out.What stops investigators, though, is not just that Marshmello is incredibly calm and the demeanor of Marshmello is very approachable, which Marshmello doesn't seem that stressed out about this move, even that the fact that officers are in there just flipping up the house, looking for evidence.When officers approach, he flops over so they can pet his tummy.And that is when they notice that his claws are too small to make the injuries on the vice face.

Even if Marshmello were pissed off.

What does that mean?Like his...

Like the scratch mark on his nose to get five stitches.They're saying like his claws specifically are too small.

Interesting.Okay.

Which that's what they say.They find in the drawer of the left nightstand of a bed confessions of a serial killer, the book, and a brown leather journal that just reads on the first page.Okay.So on the very first page, it has Levi's name on there.And the second page reads, I will kill you.k k k killer and in big chunky blocky letters the last page of that notebook has a handwritten instruction page on how to balance on one leg it reads stand with both feet planted firmly on the ground next slowly raise one of your feet and stand with all your body weight on the opposite leg you should be balanced on one leg reach your raised foot forward which points to it being levi because he was working on his mobility i see having the

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But it's not just the journal, it's what's on Levi's phone versus what's on Hunter's phone.On his devices, he's talking to someone on TikTok and Levi messages them.I have very low empathy, which has been confirmed.Also, my plan, I'm on track.Found my MO.He takes screenshots of serial killers' MOs.

There's psychological analysis, equipment used for transport, body disposal, naming, possible planning, execution methods, body dump sites, clothing appearances.There are several photos of Levi.of himself that he's taking like selfies where he's choking himself and taking a photo which uh okay i looked into it and it seems like sometimes people with very morbid interest who want to see what someone would look like dead will sometimes google pictures but then maybe it's not good enough so then they'll like In other messages to unknown TikTok users, he's messaging about how he has a severe lack of empathy.He likes hurting animals in his childhood.And I guess this person tells him that he can never hurt a fly.Like, I don't think you could ever hurt a fly.

Levi responds, I've killed animals before on my own with a knife.You're right.I probably couldn't hurt a fly, though, because they're too fast for me.He states that he doesn't kill while he hunts.He says, I don't go hunting.And he's talking about killing.

He says cats, dogs, some squirrels.Then he sends a message that reads, trying to understand my own problems.Are you sadistic at all?I'm fairly curious.Not too long after, he Googles causes of being sadistic.Then he takes screenshots of information of how serial killers subdue their victims before killing them, as well as how to strangle someone and how long that process takes, which Denise was found smothered to death.

In the night of the murder, authorities are able to track Becca Hunter and Levi's phones.12 .53 a .m., Hunter plugs in his phone into the charger and locks his phone screen.2 .12 a .m.

, Levi locks his phone.2 .19 a .m., Hunter locks his phone.Then from 2 .30 to 2 .52 AM, Levi's on his phone using his camera, but we don't get any other information from that.

Wait, what's happening?So at 2 o 'clock -ish, both brothers lock their phone?

Yeah, like as in like, it just shows that they turned off their phone.Like, you know, they can track when you unlock your phone, lock your phone.

So they were both awake?Yes.That time?Okay.

And Levi turned on the camera for how long?2 .30 to 2 .52 a .m.20 minutes.5 .21 a .m.

He unlocks his phone again and starts searching up Fairfax, Ohio Police Department.Ohio, Fairfax, Ohio Police Department photos.Then later, when Levi goes to his dad's house, he starts googling again.Fairfax, Ohio, photos.Fairfax, Ohio, police department photos.Fairfax, Ohio, police department.

Does Ohio have restrictions on using familial DNA searches?What was Ted Bundy's diagnosis?What was Ted Bundy's kill kit?Fairfax, Ohio, woman found dead.Fairfax, Ohio, woman found dead.What was Ted Bundy kill kit?

Why do you think he's searching about Kill Kit?

I don't know.

After the fact.

Maybe there's more curiosity.Yeah.Then he sends a message to someone on TikTok a few days after the murder.I'm probably going to get caught.And then deletes that message.Then there's more searches on Google.

Saliva drug tests, saliva swabs, juvenile detention center, Cincinnati, Hamilton County Youth Center.Ways cops mess with you in the interview.Ways cops mess with you in the interview room.Two hours later after that search, Hunter and Levi are called in for police interviews.Meanwhile, on Hunter's phone, they find messages between Hunter and Becca.They do a full search of Hunter's phone.

Becca is texting him that she's in the ER with Levi.Be careful around Marshmello.Why?He's being feisty about the house moving around.Okay, he's trying to hug me right now.LOL.

Part of the reason we're in the ER is because Marshmello was sleeping on Levi's face and then startled each other and he got scratched on his face.He took a shower and slipped and hit his face on the tile.Oh, yikes.If he gets moody, just get up and walk away from him and keep him away from your face.It seems like all of the digital evidence hunter like his phone did break.He was sick in the bathroom There's no messages.

There's no weird google searches His phone was off during the time of the crime Whereas levi is googling a lot of the fairfax, ohio So hunter it seems he did look up the case but in the very normal way of like what's going on like local news reporting Yeah, and with hunter it seems like at first investigators wanted to know if they were both involved But primarily they suspected levi in the beginningBut after seeing Hunter's reaction to everything, it just didn't strike them that he would be involved.But more importantly, aside from DNA matching, because he and Levi are the same DNA, there's really zero evidence tying him to being involved at all.I mean, there's nothing in his phone, his journals, there's nothing in his room, there's nothing on his face or body to indicate any scratches.And he also doesn't believe that his brother is involved.Hunter tells the investigators, investigators you guys are probably thinking about like of course he has scratches on his face he left the house he had to go to the hospital all that stuff that we told you you know is very much so corresponding to what happened and I just want you guys to know that I have no faith that my brother would be able to do something like that like I don't know if you guys know I don't I don't know if this is spreading too much information but our family have gone through some very very traumatic things our family have gone through some very very very traumatic things also having very traumatic childhood could make somebody be able to do something like that.

So again, that's another thing that I feel is just a coincidence.Way too many coincidences.His face being scratched and him going through traumatic experiences.So it's completely possible that, I don't know.

And there's just so many times Hunter looks like he's seeing the coincidences that are forming, but he stops himself and he continues, I don't know, like in a different universe he did that, right?But personally, I believe I thought about it.I imagined it because I'm a very imaginative person.I imagine like what if Levi made up this story of scratching his face and then what like what actually happened?

What actually happened was like, oh we snuck out at night and did that whole thing But that was just like I didn't actually believe that that's something you could do like after after I imagined that I was like No, all three of us are very very very we express our feelings very much.

So I know that he has a lot of trauma He's basically saying I know Levi has a lot of trauma, but we all talk about our feelings Like we're very open.We're all in therapy.Like that's not how we do it.He even says the day after Levi got back from the hospital.remember he went to go stay with his dad, Hunter says that the reason was because he was triggered.And I know that sounds suspicious, but he, and it seems like Hunter has another moment and then he stops talking.

He says that Levi told him he just wanted to leave the house because...I don't know, I'm just gonna keep saying this, but this makes me feel really upset because a lot of evidence is piled up against him.

But I mean, I don't know if you guys suspect him of anything, but I truly don't believe that he could do anything like that, even though he has all these things.He's never talked about anything like that with you?About hurting somebody when he gets triggered?No, no, he doesn't, like he doesn't behave weirdly when triggered.He just doesn't, he's just quiet.He's, it's upsetting for him.

He started crying when we got back to the house because he said he never gave us an explanation to why he was triggered.

I'm sure you guys can't tell me whether or not you're suspecting him.I'm just gonna tell you right now.I don't, I don't believe it.It's not possible.

Hunter says it doesn't make sense because even after the investigators came and took their DNA He says I mean we joked about it I like how does it feel having your DNA in the system now?Because he would say he's told me that he doesn't think he would be a serial killer when he's older because it just doesn't make sense To me because that's just stupid.He also says that he has immense capacity for empathy for us It's just slightly less than for other people So Hunter is saying like he has empathy for his family.There's no way that he could be a killer.Hunter mentions Levi would talk about how he feels like hurting people sometimes.He feels empty and he feels violent.

He's never acted on any of that.He hasn't had any impulses to kill somebody.I don't know for how long.I just know that for the last year it's been brought up to me. I don't know how long he and mom have been talking about it.i mean i've been like for my whole life a very very happy child because i think me and levi process our trauma very differently you know while growing our brains i don't know how differently i don't know yeah i don't know how differently i don't know if Hunter says that he feels like, what if he's being crazy?Which means nothing is happening, but Levi will know that Hunter suspected him almost.

Which means that Levi would never talk to him again because if that were Hunter, he would never talk to his twin brother because the betrayal of suspecting your brother of being a killer would be too much.But also if he did do it, then they need to know and Hunter says he said multiple times he's not stupid enough to do that.So it's not like he's been acting erratically these past few days after he got scratched by the cat.He's been acting pretty much normal.He just only acts slightly weird whenever I bring up the thing, which makes sense.The thing that happened across the street.

Yeah.He's disabled, he's very transparent to us and his therapist about the way he feels.Also, the doctors would have realized it and said something like, they don't look like cat scratches if they weren't cat scratches.Like, I don't remember what it's called, but they said like a plastic surgeon came down and stitched his nose to make it look better.Wouldn't the nurses or doctors have had suspicions?Because surely you'd be able to realize that something was a human's nail or a cat scratch.

He later leans back and he's almost like looking off to the side as if he's replaying the last few days in his head.There's just no way.

There's just no way.Obviously, there's no way he wouldn't tell me or tell somebody if he did do that.Like, he just goes on with his day.Like, I know murderers can do that, but like, him?I don't believe it.

I don't know why the investigators decide that they want to be the ones to break it down for Hunter.Like, maybe they want to see his reaction.Maybe they want to see if he's going to tell them something else to confirm whose belongings these are.I don't know.But they show him, like, a very zoomed up picture of Levi's watch.And they it's on a tablet.

It's clearly a crime scene photo, but it's so zoomed in that you wouldn't knowwhat do you think about that what what do i think about what do i think about that he's just looking at the picture of the watch he's like what do you want me to think about it's just my brother's watch here let me widen it out they zoom out what do you think that's the picture of he starts like i guess hyperventilating you don't hear it on the body cam but the officer tells him to take a deep breath and he says we don't have any of those blankets that's not your house It's not your house.

How does the watch in the struggle was...

It was broken.No, I remember him saying that he lost his watch.And when did he say that?After he got home from the ER.I don't remember him talking about it.And then when he left, he came back and he said he doesn't know where he put his watch.

But Hunter is still defending his brother.The way he sounded, I don't know, like...

I don't feel a person would say that.A person would say it that way, knowing that, you know, they wore their watch when they did that.

They show Hunter a picture of a knife that he's never seen before, and he tries to tell investigators that's not the knife that they have inside their house.only proof that you could give me is if you find his sperm dna and if i'm right about her apparently being raped because he was on the news only thing i can believe like i'll tell you this right now that's not a possibility the way he acted after that happened after he saw the ambulance he was like why is the ambulance outside there's no way that he could fake all of that so correspondingly to the point where i could see none of it like i didn't see any of the cracks none of it he faked all of his emotions Hunter later tries to say maybe that's not even his watch.He says, there's no way that my brother, like there's no way someone in my family, even though like, all I'm going to say is I don't believe it.I'm going to say that I think there needs to be more evidence.I think there needs to be more evidence to convict him.I think there needs to be more evidence.

I know you probably haven't shown me all the evidence, but that can't be enough evidence.I know there's all these coincidences just stacked up against him, but there's no way.I mean, my brain really goes off topic.I just thought, what if he lost his watch at Dad's?And this is all just some sort of misunderstanding and dad finds it or like he really did just miss his watch.Like he really did just accidentally forget where his watch is and I made a mishap and I said, that's his watch, even though that's not his watch.

And you guys show him that photo and he'll probably say like, no, that's not my watch.Like, do you guys think that's his watch?Yes.Do you guys think that he did this?Yeah.You're fully convinced?

Yeah.We haven't gotten into everything, but that's why we're here.And he starts breaking down.

Do you guys think that's his watch?Yes.Do you guys think that he did this?

Yes.You're fully convinced?Yes.

We haven't...

And he screams no, no, it's not possible And he starts frantically asking like are you saying he purposefully hurt?And then he goes back to there's no way he would do that.Like even if he did kill her There's no way he's the one who raped her like he's not that type of person on top of that I don't believe for a second.

I I think what's happening is there was a really really really meticulously planned smart person who planted that watch there and had been planning this for a while.It just so happens that Lewis has a lot of traumatic experiences and he grabbed our knife and he took our watch and he and they did that.

He also tries to reason with the investigators because he read on the news that whoever did this they referred to him as a man and he was like and Levi's not a man.Fox 19 said that he was a man.He says the chances that this is his twin brother's doing is slim to none.I have no belief that Levi, Levi doesn't have the capacity to rape and kill somebody purposefully, willingly, harmfully, having the person fight back.And also, how would mom not find out about it?And if she did find about it, why the fuck would she hide it?

She's not the type of person to hide it, which I do agree with.There's no way he's stupid enough to leave his own watch on top of that use our knives.He's a very smart and calculated person.He knows what he's doing.He's not stupid enough.I mean, maybe on drastic circumstances, he was very, very impulsive.

He really felt like killing someone.He had no other weapons.He could have just gone into her house and stole one of her knives.Is he faking his empathy for us?Does he not actually care about any of us?Is that the reality we're facing here?

Is the reality that I'm facing here?Is that my loving brother for my whole life, my brother that I've cared for and cared for me and my mom has cared for and spent and dedicated her life to helping this person live?And then he asks if his brother is going to jail.and what the chances are that he won't and he puts his head down and he cries there's no way it's not possible there has to be someone who bloodied the evidence there has to be some misunderstanding and he keeps asking are you being 100 % with me this is true this is true this is true they tell him that his brother's dna was at the scene and his head falls onto the table When Levi is confronted with the fact that his watch and DNA were found in Denise's home, they try to tell him, you just seem like a kind of just a young man. I mean, I'm a young boy.I'm barely a teenager.

You just seem like a kind of just a young man. I mean, I'm a young boy.I know.I'm barely a teenager.Sometimes young boys.

make mistakes.

So they're trying to get him to confess and there's just a lot of odd moments throughout his interviews like when they ask why he went to stay at his dad's house he says that it was triggering and then there's moments where he like okay back and forth this whole interview is like an hour and a half well the whole body cam footage is like two hours long right but it's this weird back and forth of him trying to appear dumber than he is or at least that's what my take of it and

What kind of math is it?

I don't know how to describe it.It's like...

He like weirdly doesn't know the name of basic things, okay?But he also says that he doesn't know if he went to the hospital to get the stitches.He just knows somewhere where there's doctors.Okay, and then he says and then she was telling me that we're going to urgent care and I was like So this is that urgent I can tell it feels like he mentioned He doesn't know where he's going somewhere with doctors like trying to appear dumb And then he mentions that his mom said we're going to urgent care and then he is like, oh, so I was like, oh this is urgent It's just weird.I can't tell if he's trying to cover up for the fact that he just said he didn't know where they went, but then said urgent care, or if he really doesn't know what urgent care is.It feels more like the former.

He reiterates again, like, I didn't know this thing was that urgent.It's like a weird thing to say.It's just a lot to cover up for the fact that I feel like he knew it was urgent care, but that's just my feeling, right?But then later he will talk about how he slipped in the shower again, and he says, yeah, I slipped and I hit like the shower sprayer.

He's just naming things differently.

Yes, but then when the investigators look a little skeptical, he'll expand on that and he'll say, I guess let me articulate it better.I was holding the shower sprayer, I guess, whatever it's called.Like I usually do because I was only holding it.I slipped and I fell like this and I guess I hit it and I guess it hit the wall.He does start like cracking his knuckles immediately after and then he further explains like,I don't know how to make it make sense, but yeah, that's what happens when I fell.

And well, because I'm disabled, I was more likely to fall.I don't know if you're aware of that.I've told you I'm aware of your illness.It's not an illness.It's a disability.Disability.

Right.That's fair.

Yeah.I am aware of your illness.It's not an illness.It's a disability.Disability.Right.

Sure.

It's so interesting.Like this.And then he goes back and forth between, again, trying to appear dumb and then trying to appear smart.For example, like I said, he doesn't know geometry.He doesn't know urgent care.But then suddenly when he's asked about why his blood is at Denise's house, he starts saying, I don't know what explanation I could give you or even come up with that would be equivalent to how that would happen.

Well, I guess it would make sense if there was like a blood transfusion, but that wouldn't make any sense because I haven't had any blood transfusions and maybe I'm just reeling from the literacy crisis.But like, how do you know You do not know the word geometry when you're taking a geometry course for school, but you know what a blood transfusion is?I mean, I guess it could maybe apply technically in this case if he were to donate blood and Denise had gotten a blood transfusion and coincidentally happened to be from the kid across the street, Levi's blood.But standard transfusions are packed with red blood cells, which don't actually contain DNA.So like this is like random food for thought.

OK, really?

Yeah.So standard blood transfusions are mainly red blood cells.They don't contain the DNA.But if some donor white cells slip in, it's super small in a quantity.So like when you spill blood or like blood drips out of you and the DNA is collected there's going to be such few white donor blood cells that it's highly unlikely that anybody else's DNA is going to come up even if you've had a blood transfusion recently.And white blood cells are typically cleared by the body's immune system within days to weeks.

So it's a very short window.Now there are certain people who get white blood cell transfers but those are really rareand like just really rare.The only other time that this could maybe happen where Levi's DNA would be there even though he had no blood transfusion but let's say he did is if Denise had a lot of blood transferred into her system right?Maybe then donor DNA could be detectable in the recipient but again if you had that much blood Like that massive of a transfusion, you're talking like major trauma surgery.You're gonna be in the hospital for days until that clears and that DNA is known.

Anyway, no, it doesn't apply.But the fact that he doesn't know geometry, but he's wondering about blood transfusions is kind of odd to me.Also, I think you could maybe find donor DNA in like a bone marrow stem cell transplant.What are we doing here?Like, that's not the point.The point is, why are we taking a journey down the lane of hypotheticals when you don't know what geometry is?

It's also very odd that he acts like he's too young and uninformed, that he doesn't know geometry, but he offers up all of these other explanations, and the officer straight up tells him, well, it's not a blood transfusion.He says, I think you know.I don't think I know.

I mean, everybody does remember things.

I just want to remember my childhood.Well, that's what I'm asking you.Could you have done something and not remembered it?I think everybody can.Like even something that would happen a couple weeks ago?

And so the investigator's like, I just need some answers.And he says, well, thank you for explaining it to me. I'm trying to give you the best explanation that I can and come up with ways how we can figure this out.I don't understand it just as much as, well, you probably understand it more than me.Then he offers up the solution of, well, if it's not from a blood transfusion, then could it be from, quote, Did somebody put my blood in the house for a reason?

Oh, I don't know.Would you tell me?Would they?I don't have any enemies.

Do you have any more questions for me or like well, I want I want to get past this and we're not getting past it You don't know.I don't know.So we're just not resolving anything Well, I'm not sure if we can resolve it if I don't know and you don't know This is like a lot.I don't ever recall being able to speak like this when I was 13.Like Hunter, in the idea that I can see where a lot of his over explaining comes from because he just seems really nervous.And then he watched too many body cam videos, whereas Levi, it's very like, he also over and under explains, like he'll over explain about the cat scratching him.

But then when he's asked where he hit his head in the shower, he just like palms his face and says like around here, just like a big surface area.Then he's asked if he knows Denise well, which is a simple either yes or no, or maybe even not really kind of question, maybe like one sentence of context, but he goes to explain in depth.

I just know she's our neighbor.We waved a couple times, thought she had a dog, but I guess when the special agents came over, they told us that the dog had died like six months ago.So, yeah, I didn't really know her that well.I don't know, I just thought that she just, like, had a job, like, I don't know any normal person, I think.I just mean, like, like, I didn't know her a lot.I just thought, like, this is this person.

Yeah.And then he has like moments where it's almost like a contrarian is trying to slip out of him, which like if you've ever had interactions with someone who must disagree with absolutely everything you say, it's incredibly frustrating and they cannot help it.I guess even in police interviews.So one detective who has been largely quiet throughout the entire interview turns to Levi and says, listen, I wholeheartedly believe that there are two types of people in this world.You've got monsters.You've got people who make mistakes.

I think I disagree with that personally.What do you disagree with about that statement?I just think that there's a lot of different types of people in the world.There's not monsters and people who commit mistakes.The officer says, well, I'm just simplifying it for the context of this murder.There's only two types of people that would commit a murder, you know, monsters and people who make mistakes.

And Levi responds, well, if it's murder, then it would be a monster, right?

Well, I think if it's murder, it would either be self -defense or manslaughter or something like that.

Again, you don't know geometry, but you know manslaughter.He even sits like a contrarian, like he's more intrigued at the idea of like a moral dilemma and a debate than he is like getting away with something.The investigator is saying, that's why I'm trying to find an explanation.I can't put words in your mouth.Levi responds, I can't put words in my mouth either.I mean, I can.

I can't put words in your mouth.I can't put words in my mouth either.No, I just would.I mean, I can.

So weird.

Later, Levi brings up again that maybe there were three people in Denise's house instead of two.And the investigator asks him, was it?I don't know.I've already told you that.I'm just saying possibilities, possibilities, or possibilities.Nothing's impossible as I've repeated multiple times.

And it's interesting at the very end, Levi almost tries to bring his brother down with him, or at least that's how I get a read of his intention, because he says, I don't know why I would lie.I don't know why I would be outside after dark.I don't know why I would even do something like this.He says, I just know I don't see a scenario where me alone or me myself would ever do that.

I don't see a scenario where me alone or me myself would ever do that.

Which is like really weird.He's saying, I would never do this, but also if I did, I would never do it alone.which I have a theory and this is just a theory and speculation that if like, I know that both of them were into true crime, but that's, I mean, I do think that a lot of people watch true crime documentaries, but it seems that Levi's interest was a lot more in depth.I think the way that Hunter was into it, he's like watching body cam footage on YouTube probably.And he's just like, Oh, that's interesting.Oh, look at how this person reacts.

But the fact that he, Levi is looking up all of these, um, The psychology of killers, it seems a little bit darker.It seems a little bit more in -depth, his curiosity.And I wouldn't be surprised if he did come across cases where identical twin DNA did set killers free because it has happened before.There have actually been multiple cases where there was like a serial assayer and the two twins were brought in and they wouldn't turn each other in.The investigators had hoped that at least one of them would say, oh, well, you know what?I don't want my brother to go down for it.

It was me, but they didn't.They even put them in the same room together.To see if they would talk about it, but they just made small talk and then they were freed Yeah, I think that case is gonna go to trial I think they're trying to use the novel DNA of the sequencing or like the genome like full so it's it's interesting that Yeah, it's just like very I wouldn't be surprised if he heard of cases like that and thought that if he kept bringing up his brother it would end up a situation where Nobody would go to jail The investigator asks.

times Sunday morning in February?I don't think so.I don't see how that correlates.I just mean like, I just mean I don't see how I would do that.I don't see why I would do that.That's all I know.

Well that's what we're trying to figure out.Why you would do it.Why that would happen.Yeah, that's what we're trying to figure out.Could you have been there?I don't think so.

I don't think so really bothers me.

See, I guess.Well, I guess you either were or you weren't there.

See, I don't like the I guess.You either were there or you weren't.But we know that you were there.Well, I mean, you can...I don't know you can think about my full sentence and say or you know my full wording and say he said no I'm just saying I guess as that is what I think I don't have a definitive answer for me to give and that's why I'm saying I guess or I'm not I don't know but I'm not sure it's possible because I don't have a definitive answer if I'm going to say no then in my mind I'm gonna say no I guess because I don't have an answer I don't have a real answer the investigator straight -up tells him I think you created this version of events and you want it so badly to be the truth but it's not the truth I don't think I would want it to be the truth if I wasn't telling you that it was the truth.Like, why would I tell a story if I wanted it to be true?

I've never done that.Your version's not the truth.Well, if that's what you think, that's what you think.I've explained to you everything I know in my version of events that I know is correct or that is in my memory.I don't know why you would think I'm lying or why you don't believe me. I mean, my brother's pretty chatty.Pretty what?

Chatty?Was your brother with you during that night that you got cut?

I mean, my brother's pretty chatty.He's pretty what?

Eventually, they don't get a confession, but November 10th of 2025, Levi Cart pleads guilty to aggravated murder, aggravated burglary, and strangulation.He receives the maximum sentence allowed under juvenile law.He will remain in the juvenile detention facility until proven guilty.21.He is expected to be released in 2033.

Wow.

Yeah.One neighbor told the police during the investigation that whoever did this to Denise needs to receive capital punishment because quote, you know, if he gets out, he's going to do it again.You can't cure that.Other netizens have kind of sounded off online saying like that's actually a really dangerous age to release somebody.And I do think I mean watching his interrogation video, it seems like if he's that equipped at responding to the police the way he did at 13, I can't imagine how much more fine -tuned that's going to get in a cutthroat environment such as a juvenile detention center.I imagine your capacity to learn how to adjust and survive in situations like that will make you only that much more cunning and evasive.

I mean, it was such a strange case to see.I think it's interesting that the investigators handled the case the way that they did.I almost suspect that maybe they pled guilty because, I don't know, I just feel like the investigators really shot their own foot with this investigation.I think had it gone to trial, I think the defense would have had a good time finding a lot of legal murkiness with the way that the investigators approached all of this.And I think maybe that is what resulted in this plea deal.But that's just my speculation.

What are your thoughts?Let me know in the comments and I will see you in the next one.Be safe.