Advogado de Zambelli dá entrevista exclusiva após liberação da prisão na Itália

There's another important piece of information.The Court of Cassation of Rome, the last court in Italy, denied in a definitive decision the extradition request made by the Brazilian government against the former federal deputy Carla Zambelli.This decision, which was made today, says about the trial in which Zambelli was convicted for invading the system of the National Council of Justice.There is also a second extradition process going on in the Italian court... ...regarding the sentence of the ex -deputy for the crime of illegal carrying a gun... ...and threatening with a firearm.The Supreme Federal Court sent to Italy a single extradition request... ...but the Italian court decided to separate the cases.Therefore, there is still another extradition request in analysis... ...still without a date for a final decision.

Well, let me quickly call Luiz Felipe Dávila... ...to evaluate the situation involving Carla Zambelli... ...released from prison in Italy... ...and this request for extradition denied.Dávila, turn around in this case, right?Because two days ago, the news indicated that she would come to Brazil... ...after possibly the Italian justice... ...respond to the request of the Brazilian justice.

Turn around, yes, Caneato.Which shows that we have to respect the decision of the Italian justice system.And the Italian justice system seems to have a certain distance from the hot issue of Brazilian politics.And therefore managed to look at the facts from one to the other, from what was the lawyer, which was the first instance even there in Italy.and what has been the official positioning here in Brazil.So, Cagnato, the important thing is to respect the decisions of justice, especially an impartial justice, which we feel is important.

Brazil.

We will follow this subject, including receiving a special guest, the lawyer of the former parliamentarian, Fabio Pagnosi.He has already answered, he has already talked to us in other opportunities.Doctor, welcome.Thank you very much for the kindness to talk to us live here at Jovem Pan.Good evening, pleasure to be with you.Perfect.

Doctor, we recently highlighted this reversal in the case of the extradition of former congresswoman Carla Zambelli.The court takes the decision today, reversing a decision that had been taken by the Court of Appeals of Italy.I would like you to explain this decision taken by the Supreme Court of Italy.What was the understanding of the magistrates when they reverse the decision that had been taken by the Court of Appeals?

Look, it was a completely unconstitutional decision.Everything that existed between Brazil and Italy, the convention of human rights, Mandela's rules, everything we had there, international law, was violated.But even so, the first instance, or the floor court, it decided to keep the extradition of Carla Zambelli.And I know very well how that happened up close, because we have a very big influence, we know that Brazil is doing this, did this in the United States.Brazil acted a lot there in that court, so everything the defense put, was denied and everything that was put by the lawyer hired by the AGU was added to the accusation.So we practically had nothing to do.

We put Flávio Bolsonaro as a witness, he was denied.We put other senators, I put Eduardo Tagliaferro as a witness, he was also denied.And whenthis was forming and becoming a nullity, because the compromised defense generates procedural nullity, I joined the Supreme Court.Showing that there was defense harassment and also showing everything that was violated and all the ordinary procedural ritual that was done in a very strange way.For example, the AGU itself, which should participate in an audience, would not have the right to speak in an audience.

The lawyer hired by the AGU, which represents the AGU, spoke for more than an hour and a half in a place where he would not be the lawyer of anyone, just a listener.So the ministers understood, they also saw everything we put in questions of Alexandre de Moraes, in questions of the defenses here in Brazil, which were practically all denied in everything that was asked.and the very fragile evidence.This also showed that there was a political persecution, because of the fragile evidence.Carla receives a greater penalty than the agent who committed the crime, which would be hacker Walter Delgatti.And the Supreme Court understood that it was a persecution.

And there was something that also helped.This week, Alexandre de Moraes asked to speed up the extradition of Carla Zambelli, so that he could prepare the penitentiary for her.This sounded like an abuse to the ministers.We also brought this to the knowledge of the ministers in Italy, because as a minister of the Supreme Court of Brazil, knowing that there is an audience, which was on today's date, the 22nd, he asks to speed up the extradition process, that is,he is already giving a sentence in the place of the ministers of Italy, and this was seen with many bad eyes by the ministers, and there was also, finally, the prison issue, where we say that Carla Zambelli will be put in prison, where she herself passed a law to endure the pain of the prisoners who are there.In other words, Carla Zandelli would suffer a huge risk of life being in the palm tree, and they didn't put another... alternative prison.

Italy even asked Alexandre de Moraes to send the prison options, where these prisons would be and the conditions of the prisons.Alexandre de Moraes replied that this was already put at the beginning of the process and also did not send Italy again.This also helped a lot the defense on today's date, which is important is that the Italian justice understood it to be so serious, so harmful against Carla Zambelli, that she is already released.She even arrived at her apartment.If I'm not mistaken, she even posted a video on social media, because they took her out practically at 10 p .m.

inside the nursing home, knowing that she couldn't stay there another minute.

Fábio Pagnós, Carla Zambelli's lawyer, talking live with us here at Jovem Pan.By the way, doctor, you mentioned this video posted recently on social media.Our production has just reported that it separated this post from the ex -parliamentary one.Let's follow it.

We did it.Peremiro managed to do the impossible, which was to fight against a gigantic system He was a great lion in all of this, and I'm shaking here with my hand, I had to hold it with both.And this is the first video that I do in freedom.

of Carla Zambelli right after he was released from prison, after the Supreme Court's decision in Italy, reversing the extradition, or the request, the process of extradition, and she ends up being released.Let me pass to our commentators.We are talking live with lawyer Fábio Pagnosi.He is Carla Zambelli's defender, kindly attending the Jovem Pan team.Doctor, our commentators will also ask questions.First to question him is Roberto Mota.

You, Mota.

Doctor, do you think this decision means a change in the perception of Italian justice, and perhaps of Europe in general, about what is happening here in Brazil?

Good evening.Yes.Yes, it's very harmful to the image of Brazil, especially the decision of Italy today, because we have Poland, which has already denied extradition, We have Spain, which has already denied two extraditions.We have the United States, and now we have Italy.This will also be repeated with Eduardo Tagliaferro, which will be another extradition linked, because it's about the same people who are being persecuted.It's the same operative mode of Alexandre de Moraes.

So I think this changes the perception, especially of Italy.Look, because Italy showed itself to us at the beginning very... not wanting to get dirty or get involved in Brazilian politics, saying, look, I'm going to leave Carla Zambelli there because I don't want to know what's going on in Brazil.So much so that it was very difficult to get an audience with the ministers or talk to senators in Italy, because they thought that Brazil was too far away for them, or that it wasn't worth fighting.Brazil.Brazil.But when we showed what was really happening, the demonstrations, the Moraes dossier, everything that happened, Italy was the first to say, I didn't know this was happening, that it was so serious.

And Italy was one more country that, despite being right -wing, that is, Georgia Meloni being right -wing, is a country that is not right -wing.Remembering that the ministers are very old, from the very left wing of Italy, and they recognized the abuses of Alexandre de Moraes.

Fabio Panhoz interviews us live here on Jovem Pan News.He is the defender of former congresswoman Carla Zambelli.Doctor, one more question now with Bruno Musa.You are a Musa.

Doctor, good evening.A quick and direct question, complementing a little of Mota.Do you see any possibility of this decision to have something, some practical decision here in Brazil to be a sign of change by the movement that in the rest of the world is already agreeing with what Brazil is today?

I believe that this is adding to the understanding of other countries too, especially when we talk about more democratic countries, or that democracy works, talking a little about the United States, I think that what happened in Italy today can reflect a lot here in Brazil, because it shows once again that we have one more person who was persecuted, and the Supreme Court of another country has recognized that.I don't know how long Brazil will wait to see what is happening in Brazil, especially in the legal sphere.is a tremendous insecurity and that we do not have the pillars of the Constitution respected by the institutions that should preserve them.

Italy's justice cancels the extradition of Carla Zambelli.We are debating this decision taken by the court with the defense lawyer of former parliamentarian Fabio Pagnosi.Cristiano Beraldo will ask the next question.You, Beraldo.

Dr. Fábio, good evening.Now that she was released by the Italian justice system, what is Carla Zambelli's international situation?She had a name in Interpol, if I'm not mistaken, and that is eliminated.Now she is free to circulate wherever she wants, except for Brazil, obviously.I mean, how is her life from this moment on?

Bernardo, good evening.Good question.In fact, this is something that we will find out next week, because everything is very new, it is an atypical case, it is not a normal case.Each extradition case is a different case, with different complexities, and it was on Interpol's red list.For defense, as a lawyer, I understand that if she was on Interpol's list because she was outlawed and she was arrested, automatically she should leave Interpol's red list.And when there is a sentence for a Supreme Court trial, denying extradition, there is no need to talk about it.

Interpol.You have to talk to them in a very confidential way.They don't answer e -mails.They make it difficult for you to have access.But I'll have to find out next week how far Carla Zambelli will be able to go.Throughout Italy, that's for sure.

Now, in the European Union, will Carla Zambelli be able to go?Legally, I believe so.But in practice, we'll still find out.

Now it's Luiz Felipe Dávila's turn.

Dr. Fábio, good evening.Your defense strategy was much more based on the procedures of Brazilian justice, and then showing that there was partiality, or was it showing the innocence of Carlos Ambelli?What was the main strategy that guided your performance in this case?

Good evening, Dávila.Very good to talk to you.Look, it's a difficult question to answer, because it's been eight months of work, and it was all a bit, right?Obviously, I tried, and I'm a specialist in this, looking for procedural nullities.So, at first, I went after the nullities that could have led to her imprisonment, that led to her imprisonment in Italy, which was already a prison that the police couldn't have entered her house the way they did.because, anyway, there were several procedures to be adopted for that moment.

So, we came first for procedural errors, and after that, through CCJ here in Brazil, we came for the question of showing innocence.But always demonstrating innocence.through the procedural errors or the excesses that the justice committed, that is, exacerbated sentences, lack of concrete evidence, not respecting the Constitution itself.and also the abuse of power that Carla's defense practically had in Brazil.In our case, we didn't have a chance to enter with any resource, because any resource that you enter today in the Supreme Court, especially when it comes to Alexandre de Moraes, he says it's merely protestatory.And then he goes to trial, his sentence, and the trial is over.

There is a criminal review.Who is the criminal review going to go to?To another group, which is also a group that sent a process of extradition of Carla Zambelli to Italy.That is, here we were frozen, we had nothing to do.So in Italy, we went a lot for the issue of error and excess of procedure in Brazil, mixed also with the excessive procedures in Italy.

Now, doctor, before we close, quickly, in response to what Cristiano Beraldo asked about Carla Zambelli's situation, I'd like you to explain the situation that involves the second extradition request due to the conviction due to the illegal possession of firearms.What is the status of this request?Has the Italian justice received this request, this request from the Brazilian justice?Is this being processed?Update to our audience, please.

Look, this request was already in line with this other one, which was today's decision.Actually, what was done?There was an extradition request, where, even for an error or defense innocence, we said that the hacking crime was a crime that didn't have a duplicity, a typicity, like in Italy and Brazil.In other words, there, she wouldn't be arrested for a hacking crime, for example.As we say this, practically four or five days later, Gilmar Mendes went unjudged on the issue of the gun and sentextradition request to Italy, saying, now I have two extradition requests.

So, there was practically an apensu in the same process.I don't understand that there is another hearing, because there is nothing marked, another hearing on the issue of the gun, even because they have already released Carla Zambelli.So, now all that's left is for the Minister of Justice to speak out, However, he may or may not speak up in up to 45 days.If he agrees with what is happening, that is, with the Supreme Court's decision, he doesn't even need to speak up.So, 45 days have passed, he is already in court, and the judicial discussion on the extradition of Carlos Zambelli, a free citizen, as I believe he is already and will continue to be a free citizen, at least in Italy at this time.

The decision was taken by the Italian justice, annulling the extradition of Carla Zambelli and even authorizing the release of the former federal deputy.Issues dealt with by Fábio Pagnosi, lawyer of the former parliamentarian, talking live with us here at Jovem Pan.Doctor, thank you very much once again for attending us.Good luck to you, good work and see you next time.Thank you very much, have a good weekend.You too.