BISAKAH DPR DIBUBARKAN?

Our DPR is bad, our party is bad. Let's bury the parties, because these parties are the ones who are destroying. The salary or income of the DPR is already excessive. Well, this is interesting. If it's corruption, it's still not taught at all. It's already a lot.

One of my friends said, Ma'am, why did you say your salary is big? I was scolded by my wife. Oh, this is funny. My wife only knows about 4.8 million rupiahs. Ebenezer said he was caught by the UTT. It's impossible.

Maybe it's a money laundering. I don't care if it's the Prab's government or Jokowi's government. The important thing is that they catch the corruptors.

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Hello, how are you? We meet again on Terus Terang, a podcast where I will talk about various issues openly and without any hidden agenda. Every week there is are always political, legal and government events that become a public issue in the mass media and also enter my social media comments. I respect all of them, about what happened in the past two days. From all the events, we will discuss some issues that I think are important so that we can see it more clearly and think together. Let's start. Please, what do you want to ask?

Mr. Mahfud, we still feel a is warm after the demonstration a few hours ago. There was a demonstration in front of the DPR, a protest to the DPR, then before that there were many people about the arrest of Waminah Kurnoel. So, the atmosphere is a bit warm, a bit hot. That's why it's very important for me to ask a few things to Pak Mahfud. One, I think, directly to the atmosphere from the demonstration field yesterday in DPR.

Until the evening, Pak. It was still live. The demo that started from the invitation on social media, Pak, on the platform account, then on TikTok and all that, turned out to be a demonstration that was directly a bit tense. Even some were injured. There were some injured, including journalists.

In essence, they protest the DPR, especially the distrust of the government and its relationship with salary and loans. The DPR's loan of 50 million was cancelled, the salary was not paid, and there was even a request for the DPR to be disbanded.

Mr. Mahfud, I think you have witnessed it. What is your take on it? Yes. I started from the issue of state order. Okay. Please. Not the political issue. The issue is the dissolution of the DPR.

Okay. Yes. It got there, sir. The issue. Until you asked for the DPR to be dissolved.

Yes, the DPR to be dissolved. What is your take on it? I want to be a bit serious. It's too risky and arbitrary and to be united, if we ask for the DPR to be dissolved. Because the DPR is an instrument of the constitution, an instrument of a democracy.

I often say that our DPR is bad, our party is bad, but it is much better for us to have a bad DPR and to have a bad party, a bad party, instead of having a party and no DPR. I always say that. We criticize parties, we criticize the DPR,

but don't talk about the dissolution of the DPR. Because a democracy is dangerous if there is no DPR. No matter how many people, even if they trust a good ruler, there is still a risk. Because a ruler without being balanced by the DPR can be as winning as winning.

If there is a DPR in a democracy, even if it's bad, there is still time to evaluate through the voters. There is still time for us to criticize, so that the debate continues. I want to remind you that when Bung Karno once dissolved the DPR, the MPR, the DPR, and so on. The DPR was a political party.

And the DPR has been chaotic since then. Since then, it has been chaotic.

Political party and DPR has been in a mess since then. So, it has been a mess since then. The political party and the DPR.

So, I still remember, when in 1945, we immediately voted for a legitimate government, not indicated by the PPKI. There were some who said that the PPKI was temporary, the formation of Japan, etc.

This is a form of people's government.

We formed a people's government like the Basic Law. It said that in six months, there will be a referendum after the East Asian War. Six months, we have formed a people's government. DPR, MPR, and DPA. Let's have a referendum.

Then, Bung Hatta, who was then coerced by Bung Karno. On November 3, 1945, Bung Hatta said, Hi people, we are a democracy country. Form a party, as many as you can. We will immediately have a vote so that this government is filled with people who were elected by the people, not shown temporarily by the Constitutional Constituent Assembly. That was Bong Hatta.

So, the party emerged. Then, the 55th election, which was very democratic according to history, but then there was a political war that led to the breakup. So, Bong Karno then issued a decree of president, that was in the process of breaking up. So, Bong Karno then issued a decree to the President to dissolve the National Police Regulatory Regulation

and to change the Basic Laws. In a way, it violated the Constitution that was done by Bong Karno. But at that time, Bong Karno had already said in 1957, in a very famous book, Politics and Laws, Era 1945-1965. It was written by Herbert Faith.

He wrote Politics and Laws. In 1957, Bung Karno said, we don't need parties now. Let's bury the parties, because these parties are the ones who are destroying.

Bung Karno said.

Bung Karno said. It was in the book. It was written. Until now, the book is read by people who learn to talk. We bury the parties. We build this country together, without parties.

That was in 1957. Since then, he planned the movement until the Decree was issued. Because the Constitution and the DPR were also in a mess. Finally, the DPR was dissolved. Then, what happened? At that time, many people supported Bung Karno.

But slowly, but surely, because the DPR was already paralyzed, Bung Karno then became a spearhead and started to defend the KAMK, Lubes, Mutar Lubes, and many others who were detained there without a legal process at that time. Bung Karno also got support from the people so that the state of Dakaka already trusted Bung Karno. But every power tends to corrupt. Every power is often misused. That's what happened to Bung Karno. So, Bongkarno then, you remember, there was a term of the press,

the President's appointment. The President's appointment was an act of making a law as far as the law was concerned, carried out by Bongkarno without asking for the approval of the DPR. Because if you ask for the approval of the DPR, it will be rejected. Well, I made it myself. Bongkarno made it for the National Council. The point is, the law was passed there, and the press was published. Even though there was a parliament at that time.

There was a parliament, but it was already collapsed. The meetings were not held. They gave a debate about the APBN. Bong Karno was angry, and so on. That's what caused Bongarno to fall. Because of that, I hope that whatever is thought, our anger at the situation, the bad things,

the way our politics are managed, corruption in the DPR, corruption in the government, the political parties that are in favor, and so on, are far better than us dispersing the DPR and the PARPOL. That is the reason in democracy.

Therefore, Mr. Rizal, I hope we can continue to criticize the government, the DPR, the corruptors. We ask them to arrest them, but don't say that the DPR is separated. It is a constitutional instrument. I would say that what was said by the demonstrators yesterday was an expression of disgust, sir. An expression of resentment.

Because there is no more correct word to say that I can't accept you just like that, but I get this much salary, this much support, so that the DPR was dissolved. Maybe the realistic thing is how to make rationalization as well as how to increase the efficiency of the DPR.

What do you think, Mahfud? Yes, once again, we consider it as an expression of indifference. If among the older people, it is an expression of indifference. I don't have any consequences. But among the small people, they don't understand that the DPR is important. They really discuss how to to dissolve the DPR.

We are being robbed.

We are being troubled, we are having a hard time every day.

That's the minority. But if we consider it as an expression, therefore, it should not be continued to the institution. What is the name of the process of the institution that DPR must be dissolved. From the legal point of view, the existence of DPR and Parpol is good. It's just a matter of implementation. That's where our problem is.

At the level of implementation. Because the concept structure is already okay. If you want to perfect it, let's do it. But don't think that DPR doesn't exist. So, it's related to the question, how to do it? This comes from the issue the DPR's loan issue.

The President has been appointed. So, the DPR's salary has increased, and then the loan of 50 million per month. So, there are some problems in the MPR building, when the people are in trouble. They can't even get 100,000 rupiahs on the street, and they are still representing the people until they are satisfied.

That's what makes them angry. That's right. There were still people in the streets. People from Bambang. In the past, it was Bambang who were being chased by Abu Nyaru. They were looking for the leftovers of food that was still in the gate.

Then they took it and put it in the store. they are taken in. There are still many people like that. So, it's true that the DPR has been criticized a lot because they live a bit hedonistic life. So, we have to be ashamed of the people. But in my opinion, the salary or the DPR's income is already excessive. It's already excessive.

I cut a little bit, Pak. Just talking about salary. Yesterday, Fitra announced a number, quoted by several media. Fitra is the Indonesian forum for budget transparency. Released data that according to his calculations, the salary of the DPR members per month can reach 230 million, Pak. One month? One month, 230 million, not including the 50 million loan. Now we have data. Here, Pak. Let's make a graph. The salary of the DPR members, from the source, Seknas Fitra,

in 2023, the salary was 1.2 billion. Then 575 members. Then in 2024, it was 1.189. That's 575 members. In 2025, 1.665 million66562.580 members. So, on average, in 2025, each member of the DPR will have a potential to receive around 2.8 billion per year,

or more than 230 million per month. What do you think, as someone who has been a member of the DPR and also enjoyed the salary and salary?

In my opinion, if it of the National Bank of Indonesia, was the first person to be elected to the presidency of the Indonesian government. He was the first person to be elected to the presidency of the Indonesian government. He was the first person to be elected to the presidency of the Indonesian government. He was the first person to be elected to the presidency of the Indonesian government.

He was the first person to be elected to the presidency of the Indonesian government.

He was the first person to be elected rent. Yes, the rent for my family.

I have some recess money. Oh, recess money.

In my time, the recess money was 42 million rupiahs in three months.

Oh, in three months?

In three months, in 2004, I got the money to visit the constituent. I got the money for every law. If you discuss about the law, one law, one head, worth 5 million rupiah. How many laws are there in a year? It's a small number.

230 million is nothing. That's the monthly salary. Back in my day, the official salary was 4.8 million.

The basic salary.

Yes, there are the office salary of the office workers, the wife, transportation, house, and so on. We have a question, sir. Let's see. What else? The breakdown of the salary. This is 4.2 million rupiahs, but there are also the salary of the wife, husband,

child, and the allowance. It's small, right? You don't know, there is a loan, a loan for the creation of laws. If you, as a member of the ADPR, every time you discuss a law, you have the right to do a comparative study abroad.

You have the right to do a comparative study abroad.

You have the right to do a comparative study abroad. I told you, when I was a member of Pansus, the election law, the law number 10 in 2008. I was a member of Pansus. But before I was elected, the chairmen of Ferry, Mursi, and Bandhan were already finished. I moved to be the chairperson of the Ministry of the MSK, and I got a message from the DPR, that I was invited to work at the study banding. I asked, what was it about?

The DPR said, it was about the law. I said, the law is already finished. The law is already finished. It was offered for study banding. What is the study banding for?

It is for the rights.

I said, I don't want to. I didn't want to be given the honor. I have moved to DMK now. That's a lot of money. Foreign currency, dollars. I have got a business, a hotel, and my own money. That's a lot.

Before, you had to pay for the travel expenses.

I used to get a loan to rent a house. I used to get a house when I was a member of the DPR. I got a house in Kalibata. About six months before I left the DPR, it was renovated. So, everyone was told to leave the house because it would be renovated.

I was given a monthly rent of 12 million rupiah. At that time. In 2008. For the remaining six months, you was going to be renovated. Now, Rp50 million per month is quite a lot. The increase of the dollar rate per rupee and so on

is not as big as that. Up to 400%, from 12 million to 50 million. So, the 230 million is just a routine, right? The loans are just a routine.

In Kuala Lumpur, there are still loans. Besides the loan from Melkat, there are other loans, sir.

There are loans from the government, communications,

loans for the improvement of the function of the budget, electricity and telephone assistance, member's assistance, rental loans, car credit facilities, and travel expenses, sir. Daily wage, level 1, daily wage, level 2, representation fee, level 1, representation fee, level 2.

But all of these, according to you, are so small compared to the actual ones. I was like that when I was a member of the DPRK. That's why when I was a member of the DPRK-MK, I had to report the wealth of the LHKPN. I counted it, and I was so rich.

I've never seen it.

Pak Mahfud was really surprised.

I was really surprised. I wanted to report to the KPN, but I was afraid. Where did I get so much wealth? When you saw your savings account book? Yes. I never opened it. Because it was stored right away. I never counted the amount.

I just put it in and stored it in the DPR.

And you used the salary from other variables.

Rather than being covered by the DPR, I asked the DPR. Why is my account so much? Wow, it's like this, sir. The amount stored in your account, I was like, wow, this is how it is, Sir. The money that was stored to you is this much, and the money that was received is this much. That's how much money you have.

Then I went to the Ministry of Public Works again. From the Ministry of Public Works, I was the head of the 4 pillars of socialisation team. Those 4 pillars. The UUD, Panc a month, sometimes abroad, to give a lecture on the new Basic Law. At least, in the three hotels and hotels,

I paid Rp35 million for a visit to Rekening. At that time, I had a lot of money. Finally, I asked for clarification. When I reported to the APK, I had a lot of money because it was my income from the DPR. When I said that,

I was asked by the media, who was it? I was surprised, because it meant a lot, the salary was from the DPR.

It was reported by the media?

It was reported by the media. And then, someone read it? A friend of mine. Mavud, you said, I was paid by my wife. My wife only knew about 4.8 million.

I thought, this is not a big deal for other people.

So, I think what is rational for now, what Kerjidayanti has said, that more than 2 billion in a month. In a month, it was more than 2 billion. Chris Dayanti said that. Then it was revealed by the DPR.

Don't talk like that.

So, it was really a blessing and a fortune for the DPR.

Yes.

Corruption is still not taught. There are so lot of them. The next question is, people are wondering, what is being done? If we look at the functions of the DPR, the functions of legislation, the functions of budget, the functions of supervision. Is there any supervision for the government by the government? The role of the government is to monitor the situation. The RDP, the Council of Districts, the Council of Employees, they always ask,

why this happened? That is the form of monitoring. Then they go to the regions, when there is a recess, they ask the government, how is it going to be? The government's policy is like that.

If it is the law, there is KPK, there is Kejaksanatung, financial monitoring, there is KPK.

But in terms of the public, they don't see how significant the people's representatives are in their names, right?

Yes, because it seems that now there is a kind of mix of functions, between the legislative, between the DPR and the government, so it it's not clear which one is the government, which one is the DPR. That's what is criticized. And it has to be improved. It has to be improved. Because it's not allowed. The DPR is not there. Back to the demonstration earlier, sir, which demanded to cancel. According to you, after looking at the figures like this,

the focus is now on the investment of 50 million per month. Because after seeing that it is a big scale that has been obtained, suddenly it wants to increase it to 50 million. What should be done by the government with this number? If you look at the leadership of the DPR, they are quite sympathetic. Bupuan said, we listen to all aspirations. Then Pak Dasko, if I'm not mistaken, said,

we will do an introspection. What is the public expectation after that? DPR has three functions. Legislation, supervision, and budget. By using the budget function, it can be self-financed. I accept it. Oh, it can be self-financed?

Yes, it is a budget function.

Without the budget, it is the finance minister who creates our budget. No, it is the government's law. We have a conclusion that is worth this much. Let's cut the finance minister for efficiency. That's very possible.

And that should be done.

Yes, it should be done. It becomes history. And I don't want to get involved in government affairs. What makes the government, the function of the budget is in it. Even according to the dissertation of the one on financial management in West Java, the fourth one, in other powers,

the function of the constitution, and so on, the president and the DPR can be equal. But in terms of budget, the DPR is higher than the government.

Therefore, he can just call it out. If it's not just about the market, they just call it out. It's not worth it. It's not worth it. There are too many of them, and so on. The DPR was good back then.

They didn't use those things.

Right? Yes, because all this time we have heard the DPR members saying, this was raised last year, and the Minister of Finance has said this, we were given a certain amount by the Minister of Finance,

as if throwing a ball to the ministry. So, the one who wrote the dissertation on state finance is called Arivin Surya Atmaja. The book is still used in various administrative systems. He said that from the perspective of budget, the budget of the DPR and the government are parallel, but from the perspective of the budget, it is higher than the DPR and the government are on the same level. But from the budget point of view, it's higher than the DPR.

Because it involves the tax and the tax involves the people's fate.

From the government's point of view, how do we see the consistency of the President's statement when the government's decision is very efficient, the impact reaches the regions as we see now. Also, for example, the cuts in some important points, the tan-tim, etc. Meanwhile, in the DPR,

they are given additional facilities in a way. What do you think, Pak Mahfud?

In the DPR and also in the Ministry of Finance, in providing budgetary quotas to various things, the control seems to be less, the filtering is less strong. the budget quota is not well-controlled. The traffic is not strong enough. So, it seems to be an exaggeration in some sectors, such as the price of cars for the government,

which is almost one billion rupiah. What is that for? There were cars back then. I don't know. I used to be a minister don't know, I used to be a Minco. I had a good car.

I was offered a Minco car to buy it cheaply. I bought it, and I still know the car. I thought it was nothing. I mean, it was for other ministers. This is an great deal.

Every new minister has a new car. What is the point of having a new car? Even the minister of the office rarely uses his car. He only uses it to go to the office. If he goes out, he uses a local car.

He never been used. Yes, Pak. I go back to the demo. We heard that there will be another demo on Thursday, August 28, Pak. It's an organization called BURU. BURU has organized a demo and it's usually big, Pak. Because it's in various areas in Jakarta. All over Indonesia, in various places, the demo is held. What are the expectations of Pak Afud so that there are no victims?

Because yesterday there were victims, sir. Some were injured, even the journalists were injured.

What should the government or the administration do to make it work? So that it becomes a momentum for the government to make a way out over this mouth. If for example, this mouth is immediately arrested, then it's okay. I agree with the demand and the demonstration. I will lose. I heard that there is a deal with Buruh,

that the demonstration will be peaceful. That's it. The government is now absorbing the aspirations of the people and Buruh. I ask the government to cut the budget so that the sector can cut the budget, so that our income is not realistic,

and so on. Especially the DPR. The DPR should not need a budget. They are just supervisors, legislators. The budget is just their salary. If you go to the region, you have to build the region.

You have to ask for the village's development fund. What is the CSR fund for? That's the executive's job. The executive is the one who is effective, and the DPR is the one who is in charge. Now, the DPR asks for the budget,

and if you go to the region, they say it's for the constituent. So that tomorrow, you can be elected again tomorrow. The government should not serve people like that. That is the government's duty.

So, there is no need for additional services? Yes, there is no need. That is enough for now.

Yes, that is enough. The monthly payments and other things are already a lot. Pak Mahfud, about the demo, how to avoid casualties, there is something that needs to be noted. For example, there is a suspicion that there is a mole, there is someone who is financing and all kinds of things.

Why is that when people really want the DPR to hear the voice of the people?

Honestly, what happened on the 25th yesterday, I think there was any organic dalang. Because until the 24th, when I was asked, I said, there will be no demo. Because usually there is a demo. I used to have experience, the demo was called Jokowi and Game. Do you remember? Jokowi and Habish.

Pak Mahfudz and Kepuluhu Kam.

Yes, Kepuluhu Kam. Everyone was ready. On this day, Pak Jokowi would fall. Everyone had to be ready. I said, a week before, I said,

there would be no demo. Why? We have got the analysis from the intelligence. There is no correlation. Who is going to be the target? No one. It's just a kind of YouTube,

now it's TikTok. Come here, come here. No one is looking for the invitation. Who knows where inviter? Where was the consolidation? Usually, it was already planned.

There were thousands of people here, hundreds of people in this group. There was no one here.

This group was also not here.

It was crowded in the Metzos. I said, there was no one here.

But it turned out to be organic.

Until the night. It turned out to be organic. Suddenly, the next day, it was crowded. Yes, it was crowded. So, the government had to be careful. Don't always say that there is a catch. Just the substance. That the catch must be found if there is a violence. That's why I said, it's a pity for the police.

The police were beaten, kicked, fell, and tortured again. It's a pity for the police. Because the police, beaten, kicked, fell, and beaten again. That's what the police are. Because the police are the principle. I am the boss. If they avoid it, I will fire them.

If they don't avoid it, I will beat them. So, the boss has to be the one who decides. So, the police are the victims of the months. It was the same here, right? Even though it was not as hard as in Pati, the police were pushed and pulled.

And all kinds of things. I feel sorry for the police. They have children, have families who also think about the future, right? And the comfort of sleeping at home.

Okay, Pak Fud. I will continue to another issue, Pak. This is also a big one. Last week, when the KPK replaced the Minister of Labor, Emmanuel Eben Ezer, Noel, Pak Mahfud immediately posted on his social media account, appreciating the KPK's progress and appreciating the president. Some people said that this is a slap for the President because the President shouted,

asking not to be corrupted, but then the inner circle, the assistant himself did the crime. What is your view? Why did you say that this is an appreciation for the KPK as well as for the President?

Yes, some people said this is a slap to the President. Yes, some people said that it was a slap to the President. That's normal. But many people also praised that the President can let go. It's okay. That's the greatness of democracy. So, I am now especially highlighting the differences of opinion. Some people like this, some people like that. I used to be angry with people.

But now I enjoy it.

We can make a difference.

I used to hate people, but now I think it's good. Because this is democracy. It turns out that democracy is beautiful in life. It's okay. Some people praise it, some don't. Even more than that, some people say that the arrest of Ebenezer

was done under the pretext of Jokowi's reckoning. But there are people who doubted that? There was, for example, Eddy Mulyadi, who got the information from his friend. And it was widely believed, widely discussed in the podcast. He said that Ebenezer was targeted

because he defended Munarman and Abraham Samad. So, when there were cases of illegal activities, he even attacked the one who was running, Sylvester. Jokowi said he was angry, so he ordered the KPK to arrest Ebenezer. There are people who analyze it like that. It's okay, please analyze it.

For me, it's the same as Deng Xiaoping when he said, I don't care if the cat's fur is white or black, the important thing is to catch the rat. I don't care if it's the Prabowo government or Jokowi government, the important thing is to catch the corruptors. That's it.

Whatever it is. If it's a corruptor, we will beat them. Whatever the motive is, we can do anything. Whoever has a motive, if it's proven to be corrupt. But there is another discussion. There are those who say that this is a result of Prabowo

or a slap from Prabowo because he was in the Cabinet. There are those who say that this is because of Rekaya Sajokowi who was angry with Eben Ezer. But there are also those who said that the KPK has started to rise, starting to break free from the clutches of a certain political power.

That includes Pak Mahfud, right?

Yes.

You tweeted it, right?

Yes, and I confirmed it to some people, that it was true that the KPK was doing it. No, Pak. The KPK has now started to rise again for independence. I think it's good. But even if the theory is true that it was ordered by Jokowi, it's okay.

Jokowi just ordered to arrest the corruptors.

The more, the better.

The people also want to be arrested. But about Mr. Mahfud appreciating the president, if we look at it, where is it? Because it's impossible for a women to be arrested without a postage stamp. It's impossible. It's impossible. It's impossible to inform earlier. I don't think so.

I don't think it's reasonable for Reza Khalid to be suspected. If he didn't report the president, it would have led to political turmoil. And the president has the right to do so, according to the head of state. So, I appreciate that Mr. Prabowo didn't protect him. Especially, Eben Yus is the fruit. Even though my criticism to KPK is that Ebenezer was hit by OTT.

It's impossible.

It's not OTT. It's not OTT because the incident happened in December. He received the first money in December.

It's not OTT that constructed the case. So, he accepted the first money in December. If you look at the KPK data. It's not OTT that constructs the case. If OTT is doing it, it's still a long way to go. Give me 3 billion, and I'll catch it. Or after you give it,

someone will see it from there, report to the municipal, then give the money. Or after a long time, and then someone saw him again, the public, the witness, I caught him. That's called OTT. If it's in the law. When was Eben Ezer's OTT? Where was his OTT? What was taken?

But what is the real difference, sir, in terms of OTT law and case construction? It's the same, right? The important thing is the case that is involved, right?

Yes, yes.

If OTT is ...

Maybe you mean more gangster, if OTT. No, OTT means that people can't fight anymore. Because it's already caught. That's the meaning, right? Yes, right? If you construct a case, it can be different.

It can be different. It can be different. And there was a time for the court to construct the case. The court was set up. If it was the OTT, it would be a goal.

And for the KPK, the OTT didn't have to work hard. They could just listen to the people and get the case.

If it was a case, it would take effort. But I think, I don't know how to explain it to the KPK. It's impossible for people to receive money in December, but if they are arrested in August, they will be told that it's OTT. It's empty talk.

It's wrong.

The history is right. But, it's a question. There are so many cars. The value is 81 billion.

And the motorbikes?

Yes. Where is the DOT?

Right?

Maybe it's money laundering.

So that it can run to the TPPU?

Yes.

Well, that's serious. Not just talking about 3 billion, if it's money laundering. And I've heard rumors that the KPK is now opening an option to develop a criminal act of money laundering in this case. Well, it's true that there are many rumors, right?

Moreover, Malfood is not only about the lawsuit term, but also the involvement of the people there. There are ministers, directors, coordinators, sub-coordinators. It's like an institution, Pak. It's the KPK that should open all of this, Pak. It should be opened. And that's the money management model.

So, it's structured like this. It's a network. This is one of the models to educate the money management. So, it's a kind of money laundering. It's structured like this. It's a kind of money laundering. It's one of the models to communicate money laundering. This is the one that invests, this is the one that buys a car,

this is the one that goes to the factory. That's money laundering. There are many kinds of money laundering. For example, in the form of inheritance that is made by the deed of the inheritance. There are many people who are suspicious. Emanuel started from the people who were

the first to report the assets, when he was 17 years old. People started to suspect him. Even though the basis of the principle of not making mistakes must remain. But, to suspect like that

is not to violate the principle of not making mistakes. People can just suspect. It doesn't violate the principle of not guilty. People can suspect, not violate the law. What cannot violate the principle of not guilty is the punishment before being judged by the judge. If it is only analyzed by us, it is not violating the principle of not guilty. It is possible that many people have said that. Let's just see the development. And if you look at the explanation of the KPK, Pak Fud,

this has been going on since 2019 according to the KPK.

It's been going on for a long time.

So, this is a money laundering. The beginning of the second period of Pak Jokowi, right? 2019.

The more strong the money laundering.

So, in Menaker, it will be in Menaker before, right? If it's in 2019.

I want to continue a little bit about the appreciation of the President. If so, you see up to this point, the 10th month, but this is already the 11th month, sir. How do you generally see the efforts to eradicate corruption carried out by the government of President Prabowo?

It's starting to show results. It means that the new corruption is not happening now, except for this Noel. The others seem to be afraid. So, the old ones have started to be opened one by one,

far from disturbing the stability of the government. I said, it's okay. It's his strategy. What should be done first? I once told you about the Pancatur theory. This is here first, this is here first.

If he wants to make an attack, who is the attacker? Who is the right-back, left-back, right-back, left-back, the keeper, who is it? right, left, right, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left ministerial representative, is involved, while you are shouting, don't corrupt and all that,

it means there should be something harder, sir.

Yes, yes, there should be.

That we expect from the government of Prabowo, right?

Even if it's a fair criticism from the public, even if it's a rough one, or a smooth one, saying that Mr. Prabowo is a hard-hearted man, Bowo, the priest was strict, but he did not control his actions at the level of the priest. Through this podcast, I want to say that many people have evaluated you. Every priest is great, but the effect is that there are not many below you.

Even though there are already. People also think, Pak Alford, people like Noel are arrested. Are we blaming Noel? Or also starting to see, yesterday when the ministerial show, it's not like what people imagine.

Suddenly, this and that came in. Isn't it a problem from the beginning?

So it came out like this.

Yes, Noel should be blamed first.

Number one, Noel should be blamed first. Number one, Noel should be blamed first.

Yes, he should be blamed. He should be the first to do it. Because the law is responsible if the criminal is the main perpetrator. Not the one who recommends it. Well, the second one is that it should be

re-evaluated. Why did the people who were in trouble yesterday... Why do we have to re-evaluate? People have been asking about it since the beginning. Not only Noel, but also many people who have backed down. And then, people who still don't know what their vision of the country is. It should be re-evaluated. Not only about political gifts,

but also many people. Please, that's your right, Mr. Prabowo. The right of the winner. But, it's not like that. There are measures that don't seem to be appealing to the people. Why are you being told to lead the people? That's what people think. And imagine, on October 20th,

December has already received money. Two months, sir. Maybe one and a half months. Maybe it's possible, sir. Pak Mafud, you were a minister, right? You were a minister twice, you were the head of the Constitutional Court, you were in the DPR, in the strategic offices,

but then you were prevented from being tempted by corruption. What was it that you had to do? What was the thing that you had to do? What was the thing that you had to do? What was the thing that you had to do?

What was the thing that you had to do? but then it can be prevented by temptation or corruption. What should be the attitude or record for our officials, maybe ministers or anyone else, so that we don't get involved in corruption?

First, I'm just grateful. I never imagined I could be an officer with a high salary. That's why I am grateful for everything. What is the number one thing you are grateful for? So, what else can I do? I have big dreams of becoming a professor.

I have enough salary. I taught more than 15 universities at that time. But I can become a minister. Wow, that's enough. For what? First, you should be grateful. Second, you should be ashamed.

What do you mean?

You should be ashamed of your family, your children. Where did you learn all this? This is a lesson to be learned. And third, you should remember that punishment usually comes anytime. Right? Remember, the punishment will come at any time. Those who used to feel safe are now afraid.

They have become ministers, they are still wanted. They are still being discussed by people every day on TV and on social media. The punishment will come. The punishment, as long as it cannot be physically punished, according to the law, there is a punishment that is autonomous. If the punishment is caught by the KPK,

put in jail, in jail, it is called a heteronormative punishment. A punishment that is forced by the power of the authorities. But there is also an autonomous punishment. Usually, such punishments result in a very bad effect

on the family's life. There are all kinds of punishments. There are people who are left behind by their wives, their wives get married to their drivers, their drivers bring their money which is deposited,

but they don't dare to take it. Why? Because if he took it, his driver would scream and take the money from there. There was a person who had been in jail, his wife came and asked for a house, so that he could be given a name, but he was ashamed. That's the sanction of the throne. That's why, karma, the knowledge of our culture.

In the realm of law, it is called an autonomous punishment. It comes without any rules. I once told a story to a friend from my school. He suddenly cried. He came to me, he was released from prison. Why did he cry?

I'm sorry, Sir. I have embarrassed our alma mater. I was the head of the alumni at that time. I was embarrassed. Why? I was imprisoned.

Because I signed the social security bond that was given to the DPRD. But the DPRD was responsible for it. They just made a proposal, looked for a space, and the head of the region told them to hold on.

Okay, it was over. But what happened? After he was told about the corruption, his son disappeared. His son was a good boy, he often went to the mosque,

he became a lecturer, he became an example, he kept winning in school. As soon as his father was told about the corruption, he disappeared. He was looked for everywhere. His father was caught in the corruption, his son came home with red eyes, long hair,

he had tattooed all over his body, he didn't want to be worshipped anymore. Why? I am ashamed of my father. Like you. I'd a better criminal than you. I am a better criminal than you. The law is the law. But there are many who are not able to be a law. This is morality.

If you break the law, you will not be safe. And that is the history of human life. So, don't ever leave the history, as Bung Karno said. Because there is no history. That's what it means. Don't forget the history.

You are safe from the law now. You are in power. You are safe. But people are already being humiliated. That's the law of autonomy. When someone is about to become president, he is invited to go to places. He has to look for people to show that he is still being visited by people and so on.

It's a pity, right?

That will happen to anyone, to us. Therefore, when you are in power, you just have to do as much as you can. But don't be too stingy either. But don't be too greedy. That's all, Mas. If you have any questions, you can keep it like that.

I'll continue, Pak. This is related to the development in the alma mater of Pak Mahfud in the Constitutional Court.

UGM?

Oh, in UMK, Pak. Oh, in UMK. I want to ask about UGM too. If you wantanceng, I have a question. Let's go to MSMEs first. One of the judges who retired, Mr. Arief Hidayat, as far as I know, it turns out that the DPR, a few weeks ago, held a vote on the fit non-proper test in a short time, he was elected and appointed

Mr. Innocentius Samsul to replace Mr. Arief Hidayat. People ask, because it's so fast, and it's not heard in the reputation of legal approvals. Even the government's appeal in various courts.

What is your opinion about that process and this person? I read it in the comments of my friends in the HTN, for example, Abu Susi Dariante, my friend from UNIPA. He said, it is a pity that the process is not transparent. There is also Mr. Juanda, the head of UNIPA, he said it is a pity because it is not transparent, It's a challenge to the law. Well, it has happened. Konon Samsul is in the legal field,

I mean, if I may say, people shouldn't be legal celebrities first. They say people are never known in the legal celebrity. They said that people have never been known in the legal world.

What is it?

They have never been known.

I read it for the first time when he was in the DPR, he was fit and proper test,

then I found out that there was a person like that. But okay, he was still in the ministry. But why wasn't he found out the procedure? In general, people asked to register that he was the one who wanted to be accepted, can compromise on the inside. It's unclear, but it's a fit and proper test. It's a pity that Arif is still retired.

February 2026.

That's the law. So, six months, the latest is six months before the retirement period or the term of the office period, and the DPR prepared the replacement through the transaction method. That was the rule. So, the test now is not wrong. Like me,

I got my pension in April, but before November, I had come to the DPR. At that time, I thought it was still crowded, the news could still digital.

I came to the DPR. At that time, the leader of the DPR was Sidang Resmil. I told him, when my shift was over, please find a replacement. The leader of Sidang was Prio Budi Santoso.

Oh, Prio Budi Santoso. Golkar at that time.

At that time, he was the leader. He asked, Sir, would you like to move forward? If you want to move forward, you have to give priority. Because at that time, I was the leader

and I had the right to continue. Siany also, from P3, he said, Mr. Mahfud, just continue. I said, no. I said, I have a 6-months time to select my replacement. So, I selected. So, people can register. So, when I went there, many people registered.

Including Mrs. Susi, Mrs. Nima, many people registered. Then, they were accepted based on the results of the DPR. Those who were suspected before were wanted by the DPR. But it's okay.

But the process went well.

Yes. Why not? It was a success.

So, the people of Malaysia regret what happened now?

Yes. It should have started with transparency for the public offices.

Even, sir, it was a bit, in a way, made fun of by the public, when Fit and Properties, one of the members of the DPR, one of the fraction, if I'm not mistaken, from P3, said, you will be the DPR's representative. Don't forget, don't challenge the DPR. That's what he said.

How do you feel when you see that kind of comment?

Well, that's not allowed. It's been a long time. All of my alumni, the judges of the National Assembly, Pak Jimli, Pak Habdanan, and others, if they are elected as judges of the National Assembly, they will not be associated with the DPR. So, they have to be objective. And the attitude of the DPR is that the MPs have to bow to the DPR, not to attack the DPR.

That has also caused casualties. It's called aswanto. There is no wave, no wind, but he was replaced.

He was replaced by Guntur Hamza?

Yes. There was no reason. When asked what the reason was, there was none. He was replaced because we were the ones who decided. We were the ones who had the right to choose. That was also very unfortunate. Because having the right to choose was actually a political process.

The legal process, the state system, if it is a judge, it should not be disturbed by the political power. The people who raise it.

That's the story about the fourth dimension. The second dimension is UGM. What is it? A few days ago, I'm sure Mr. Mahfud still wants to talk. A few days ago, three or four days ago, we watched together on YouTube, there was an explanation by Prof. Ova Emilia, the UGM Rector. He was accompanied by the Rector's representative, then there was Dekan, the Faculty of the Royal College, who gave the statement.

The one who brought the speech was my friend, Andi Arsana. Yes, when I was discussing in Australia, he was also the one who led. Mr. Andi. Mr. Andi Arsana. So, in that video, Mrs. Ofa explained once again that Jokowi graduated from UGM with evidence that was owned by the campus, but the next matter is the matter of what is it called, which has a license. But then, many people commented on this, sir.

The experts may want to explain, but most of them are you again. As a beloved alma mater and now the head of the Department of Religious Studies. Yes. I think UGM has done enough explanation. Enough explanation? Enough explanation. Don't explain it again. So, last month, when Prof. Kunchoro was being criticized by the public, he appeared on one of the TV channels.

I told him, UGM said that UGM issued a permit for a person named Joko Widodo. This is the proof. That's all. You don't have to say that Joko Widodo is the person. If the law has been issued, then it's a matter of course.

If someone is unfaithful and so on, and used by someone else who is not Joko Widodo, that's a matter of course, not a matter of the UGM. UGM, don't be too... too dead... Don't be too... dead. It's a sign of defending.

Yes, don't be a defender. And that's what was said yesterday by Mrs. Ova and her friends. I think it's true. So, Mrs. Ova, the rector, said continuously that

UGM has issued a permit for a person named Joko Widodo, with concrete evidence. Once the license is given, whether it is used by someone else, or it is lost and then falsified, that is not the UGM's business.

But if you ask the UGM, that's it. You don't have to defend it anymore. Enough, you have explained it. No, no. Let the debate happen between Rizmon and his supporter, Pak Jowowi, or whatever. Let it be. Then, the law is the final decision. Please do it.

I hope UGM will not hesitate anymore. It's good enough. That he has issued the permit. As for who used it, I don't know. I don't have to know. For example, I'm Maafo Talumne UGM.

For example, my permit was used by my son. UGM doesn't need to know. That's a matter of law. If I'm wrong, I'll be arrested by the police, not the UGM. That's it.

Okay, Pak. Thank you.

That's all for this week's edition. We'll meet again next week. Keep working, keep caring, and never tire of loving Indonesia. Keep working, keep caring, and never tire of loving Indonesia.

The End.