BRUTAL ARMY PODCAST - Bharat Ka SHER Soldier | Special Forces Veteran Brig. SS Shekhawat | TRS

Shikhawat sir, it's our honor to host you on TRS. Thank you very much. Jai Hind sir. Namaste.

How are you sir? I am good. Never better.

This is a special Forces special. Always a very very important episode for all of us. Don't mind me going deep directly. Sir, when special forces vets meet each other, Don't mind me going deep directly. Sir, when special forces, vets meet each other,

I would like to know about the unspoken things between those vets. What are some things that only special forces veterans understand about each other? Look, in special forces, there are 21 para-sci-fic units, 9 para-sSFU units, 10 Para-SFU units, 1 Para-SFU units, all units. They have their own history. The veterans have fought side by side, some in Sri Lanka, some in the old 1965 from 1965, 1971. So, they have seen those days when they had to risk their lives and faced a lot of difficulties. And they won by overcoming those difficulties. And they lost their people.

They shed both their blood and sweat. So, those are some memories that only the person who has gone through them can understand. So, when veterans meet each other, it is a golden day for us. The blood, sweat and difficulties we have faced in the battlefield, the battlefield is a battlefield.

It is not a stage of happiness. So fighting is happiness. It is happiness for a battlefield. It's not a stage of happiness. So, fighting is happiness. For a warrior, that's happiness. So, we live those moments again.

What are the emotions in your heart during combat?

You have to kill. If you... This is not a sport. You can't lose here. And if you lose, you are not in the world. So, in combat, the feeling is the same. Hit.

Kill. Kill first. The same feeling. Violence has to be delivered in such a manner that you break his will to fight. Take the example of Japan,

in which America, US, put an atom bomb. Why did they do that? It was violence which was being delivered to stop further violence.

So, this is it.

Don't mind me saying this, sir. This is a perspective of a lot of civilians. The one sitting behind you, my producer Vaishnav, one of his friends works in SF. And through that friend, I got to see a photo from the recent operations, where some terrorists were neutralized on the other side of the border.

But this sentence that terrorists were neutral neutralized is a matter of saying.

Seeing it was uncomfortable.

But is this an example of what you just said? It's gori. It's gori. Violence is not a beautiful form.

Violence is vibhats.

The battlefield is vibhats. It doesn't battlefield. The battlefield is a battlefield.

It doesn't matter

A person's relationship with the gore changes

as the years of combat move forward.

it is done in such a way that it hardens you. For example, this is your job. Our job is delivery of violence. We get training for that. And when you are trained, you are constantly killing. One bullet, one enemy. What is this?

You have to kill the enemy. And this is the case in all the armies. No army says that two bullets, one enemy. What is this? To kill the enemy. And this is the case in all armies. No army says that two bullets, one enemy. No, one bullet, one enemy is everywhere. So, you are hardened for that thing. You are hardened for the battlefield.

So, when you see that kind of violence, it does not disturb. It disturbs very few people. And those who are disturbed are not there. They will not be in the special forces, they are not in the infantry. And I think there will be a very high percentage of people who are disturbed.

I have not seen.

How did you sleep during the operation?

During the operation, your rooster is made. So, like you are sitting in an ambush, ambush runs for a long time, so your buddy is sleeping on duty, and your buddy is sleeping on duty, right there. So, it runs like this.

But when you are alert, you are alert. When you sleep, you are right there. Behind that, the weapon is here. Take a nap and get up like that. And in that also you get a very good sleep. I have such an experience that it is about to start.

We have to initiate combat. And we are seeing that people are coming in. You know, we surrounded a camp and my buddy told me that people are coming. So we were watching with our weapons, that they are entering inside.

They are coming. There was a camp, we surrounded that camp. After walking for 3-4 days, we surrounded the camp. On the Myanmar border. And my duty was to sleep.

I said, I am sleeping. Okay, wait a little, there is no time. So we are about to initiate the combat. And I had a nice sleep. I got up. I saw that the enemy was coming.

I told him that there is no range. Wait for a while. Then I slept. Because I was sleeping. Then I slept. Then I woke up.

I saw that a guy was coming close. Then I woke up. I told him that he is coming. He told me to get ready. He told me that this guy is coming. We got up and within 3-4 minutes, the combat started.

So, it was like that.

Years of training kicks in.

Yes.

Especially when your commando phase was starting. I'm sure it takes some time to mentally adapt to what has happened in combat. And I'm not just saying losses on our side. Even neutralizing a terrorist. Especially early combat experiences, did you ever think of the terrorist that you have neutralized? No.

No.

Like, I remember all the experiences I have had. And, in a way, this is your job, this is your profession.

Religion.

This is your job, like, this is your job, this is your job. So, it is our job. And in that, it never happened to me that I ever thought about anyone. My task was to execute.

Task was to deliver violence, violence was delivered. And yes, when our people see, they are our people. So I was saddened. Why is this happening? So many good fighters, so many good young people.

So, I was saddened.

I was not happy. Especially in Assam, in Manipur. It wasn't a joyous moment. I thought it would happen, but it didn't.

When you see their faces, you feel that they are our people. But I didn't feel that the thought would come later. Now you have taken up arms against the country, you have to go. But the sad part pain, why? He said that the ways of providence are inscrutable, but there has to be a reason why so many young men should die. Now what is the reason?

It's beyond comprehension, why so many young men should die? And very violent deaths. That's the only thing I find bad. Rest is a profession. God's plan seems right from your point of view. But whatever is happening in the world, you sometimes wonder what is God's plan seems right. But whatever is happening in the world, sometimes you wonder what is God's plan. No, in the world, this is ordained. See, conflict is ordained. If you look at history, there was no such time when people didn't fight each other. Or if you look at animal kingdom, it's a daily fight.

It's a daily fight. Someone kills someone, someone kills someone and eats someone. And the strong one wins and he dominates. So you have no other option other than becoming strong. You have to see why this is happening, what is happening. This will happen. Violence is part and parcel of life.

Violence will be there. You become strong. So strong that like a bull elephant, you know, in the wild. He is so strong that no one can mess with him. And he knows it.

He is alone. He is not with the herd. Bull elephant. He is so strong that even the pride of lion will go one mile away from him. Because he's so strong. So become strong. It is going to happen.

The violence is very normal. It is bound to happen. When was the fight? When was the fight? When was the fight? I don't know when was the fight.

I don't know when was the fight. I don't know when was the fight. I don't know when was the fight. Krishna had to fight too. After that, the wars continued and will continue. And the world will continue like this. But there is one lesson. Become strong.

Become strong. Because for a week, there is no place.

Does the role of history play a role in the training of a soldier?

Absolutely. Very much. Very much. Every unit has wins its history. The army is not a rules regulation. The army is your tradition.

The army is your history. There is a saying that those who do not know their history, they have no future. So when you will read about battles, you will find a lot of similarities. That this happened in that battle.

Now, like we have operation in the jungles, the whole Chindit operation. We still read about the Chindit operation. And there are so many lessons from it.

How to maintain discipline, how to train, how to see the enemy, how to recce, how to train yourself. History teaches you how the ancestors fought and you learn from their fight and it helps you in the future. So military history is a very important subject for us. Do you feel that even though the technology levels are increasing with time, drone warfare has become an element, all these modern warfare elements have now come into play. Still, when you study military history, you can apply it in modern day warfare.

Absolutely. Look, technology will help you in long distance combat. But ultimately when is the victory? When the ground is beneath your feet. Until the infantry boots are not on the ground, and they are not in strength.

What does strength mean?

Strength means that until you overwhelm the enemy, Overwhelm does not mean that you kill them with air. Overwhelm means that you overwhelm them on the ground. And to overwhelm on the ground, when the infantry goes, it is the rifle and the bayonet and the primitive warfare of delivering violence. This is how the fight is. This is how the fight is always and will be. Where there is a need for decision.

That yes, if you have to fight to the end,

then you have to go to the ground.

Was there any such situation after training, after you were in the special forces? Was there any situation where you felt like you grew up even more through that operation?

Every operation teaches you, every operation matures you. Wherever you are seeing life and death in front of you, your boys are being shot, or the result of the fight, that dead bodies are lying around, people are injured. So, every moment, every skirmish, every encounter, matures you. And you learn a lot.

You learn a lot in 20 minutes of combat. Recently, I won't name the units. One of the guys was shot. He fell. The second one came to pick him up. He died.

The third one came to pick him up. Although, the fire was still going on from where the bullet was shot twice. He died. The third one came to pick him up. Although the fire was still going on from where the bullet was coming from. But one after the other, they kept falling and going, that I have to get him out. They know that he is dying there.

He just knows that my partner is dying. And he is not caring about his life. He is risking his life. Where will you get such an example? Only in the army. And that is not an external energy.

It is internal. Because we are together, I have such a deep connection with my buddy, with my officer, that I will not think about my life.

It is in my muscle memory. To risk one's life for others. And I don't feel like I your life at stake for others. And I don't feel like I'm putting my life at stake for others. This is my job. I mean, it's inside me.

It's in my muscle memory.

Love for you to share an example, sir. Of a combat situation where you were tested. Any example from your whole career?

Operation Loktak Vijay, it has a lot of history. There was a camp on a floating island. And we had police commandos in Manipur. They brought someone who was threatened to die. So we cultivated him, and we asked him where the camp was. Then we sent him,

he found out, and showed us the place from a distance, that sir, it's somewhere there. Then we did surveillance, put a spotter scope, and showed us the camp at 7 km.

Then we put up more good equipment, which can do night surveillance, that equipment, I won't take the name 7 km away. Then we installed more equipment, which can do night surveillance. I won't name the equipment. And we saw their activity at night. Then we trained how to go there. So first we started by swimming. That distance was around 6 km.

6 was a little more. So as team commander, we will swim and go. So, we would take our weapons and stuff and swim in a canal from 11.30 to 3.30 in the morning. Because, fishing activity was going on in that lake till 10-10.30 in the night. And it would start again at 4 in the morning. So, to maintain the surprise, we would train from 11.30 to 3.30 in the morning.

We would swim. Now, what happened in that was that our weight reduced by 5-6 kgs. We were swimming for 3-4 kms, but we had to reach the target because the target was 6 kms. And the boys were admitted to the ICU because of the stress. The training was so stressful that the weight reduced in the ICU and you were continuously in water, so upper respiratory tract infection and even dehydration. This happened and the boys were admitted.

Then my boys came to me, the divers, that sir, we may reach, but where will the strength to fight be left? So I said, what to do? So then we brought, Robert Dinges rubber dinghies, pneumatic board, I started training with them. But floating island is grass, it is called phum,

if you read in Manipur, the Loktak lake, it is a floating grass. People collect it and make a platform on it and build houses on it. 6000 population was living inside, There were 2000 huts and 6000 people, the fishermen community, were living inside a 20km by 20km lake. And the floating grass was so cobweb

that the dinghy could not move, and the motorboat could not move. Only thin canoes, as I was telling you. So we brought a rubber dinghy, that dinghy could get stuck every 500 meters. And we could only cover 3 kilometers in the night.

Then we decided that we would have to train to ride a canoe. Now, the canoe was thin, if you don't know how to ride a cycle, and if you sit on a cycle, you will fall immediately. That's how it is. So, we arranged the boats from somewhere, got them built from somewhere far away, so that we don't know that the army is gathering the boats.

After that we did training. And after 20-25 training, we were all rowing the boat like fishermen. Then we went to the target, took two boats and went there at night. And when we reached 10 meters, we got the confidence that yes, this can be taken. And the boats were sunk, ammunition was sunk, weapons were sunk. We used to go to our divers and get them.

We did a lot of training, at least we did a lot of rehearsals. And then finally when we went for the operations, the source who gave us the information, we named him James Bond. I won't tell you his actual name, but we used to call him James Bond.

So, my ship was at the front, and two more ships were behind me. We were 12 people. And the rest of the people had surrounded the ground. And there were some boats inside that would stay away and surround us.

This is how we made a plan. And now what happens is that when you attack a target anywhere, you do it from two sides. A 90 degree angle is made so that this bullet goes like this and the bullet on the other side goes this way. There is no crossfire between each other.

Do you understand? But it was like, you don't have this 90 degree ideal, which is in the books. In this, you had to be perforce, you had to go around from all sides.

So, again, it was like, shoot at the target only, there should not be a barrel above, or else you will hit each other.

Okay.

That was also training. We did that training. So, recce, rehearsal, training, firing, continuous. We did so much that, I'll tell you about the final operation, we left for the main party in 3rd November. And,

the floating grass, it keeps shifting with the wind. We were surveilling from Karang, a solid island. And we saw that the big grass island was in front of the target. So we decided to climb on it and fire from here. We have to reach here. Now what will happen next, how many are there, will depend on that,

but we have to reach here. Now the next day when we finally went, the boat was going, suddenly we reached about 5.1 km, 5.2 km boats and reached there. We thought that island will come and there is a target ahead of it. When we reached there, it was clear water. And we could see the target in front of us.

And nothing in between. And I was a little lost. I said, what should we do? But yes, we did the training. If this happens, we will get into the water, turn the boats upside down and then we will fire from here.

But it is a very inaccurate fire. You are moving, your legs are moving, you have to stop breathing to fire, then you get the accuracy of the fire. And here your feet are moving, the boat is moving, the water is moving.

So, there will be a problem. I said, how will this happen? But as luck would have it, I said, wait a minute, let me get on the platform. I got on the platform, and the boat sank and water filled the boat. Anyway, we had training, this was happening daily. So we took the boat out, and got back on the boat.

And then I said, let's go. I passed everyone that the boat has to be turned turned and we have to go in the water. But as soon as we started moving forward, I started feeling cold from behind. So I realized that the wind was going from our direction to the direction of the target. And when we were rowing the boat, there was a sound of putting a stick in the water. I said, in a while the sentry will hear it.

So I stopped. I said, this is not I thought the sentry would hear it. So I stopped. I thought it was not the one. It was a fire. James Bond was sitting in front of me. I slapped him. I said, come back.

He said, the target is there. I said, come back. Then we turned the boats. And we went back to the grass.

Then I said, bring me like this. And we went back to the grass. Then I said, bring me from the west to the east. Okay.

It took so much time. I said, whatever it is, we won't go from here. Then we turned the boats. It took us another 1.5-2 hours. We turned and came just opposite the wind. Opposite of the wind. And as luck would have it, the grass island was gathered on that side.

So we made our platforms there, took a boat, and made a farm platform on the grass platform. And then we surrounded the target. And we opened up at the given time.

Do you remember the numbers roughly?

What?

How many number of terrorists were there?

There were 11 of them that day. We had 9 accounts. Two were left. One was a lady, who we brought. And one was shot. He was shot.

He was injured. The police caught him later. And they are now living a normal life. They have realized their whatever. And they are okay. Insurgency, they are ultimately our own countrymen.

We have the same people. Our 21 Parish of Eastern State class. So, the insurgency there is very unfortunate. That you are fighting against your own people. So, I was not happy doing that operation.

I was sad.

But, now this is what it is. If you take up arms against your country, you will have to bear the consequences. But when you see such things, you feel that these are our people. So, there is no happiness or happiness.

The combat on that day.

Okay, so finally, the sentry was right above us. The sentry was just 15 meters away from us. It was a big building. So, my buddy and I jumped on a floating grass. And the two huts where we were seeing the terrorists every day, they were just 2 meters away from us.

So, we used to listen carefully to see if there was any movement in it. We crawled slowly and there was no movement in it. Sir, there is no one in this, it was my buddy, he told me. So, after that, again, the loss is still in the center. If we bring the boat here, then it will be found out. So, we started clearing the field of fire.

So, we cleared the grass. And as luck would have it, around 3.30-4.30, the sentry got down. We were having surveillance at night. We had a guy who used to watch at night. He told me on the radio that

these people are coming out. They are coming out from hut number 1, 2, 3. So, that was the time of their morning evolution. So I said, now is the time. As soon as the sun set, as God was helping us, we quickly set up the platforms on the floating island,

on the grass that was flowing. We set up the platforms and stood on it. And the target was clear and visible. After that, I checked everyone, what are you seeing? Confirm which hut you are seeing in front of you, which we were rehearsing. Something was a little bit confusing.

Because you are looking from somewhere else, you have a parallax. You are looking from somewhere else, so your perception is different. But if you go to the ground looking from somewhere else, your perception is different. But if you look at the same thing from the ground, your perception is different. It seems different. So, it also happened that I had to change

that no, your target is not that. Your target is 5 meters to the right. If I would have allowed that the 5 meters to the left were the civilians. So, I confirmed that yes, tell me, 5 meters that he was looking at were the siblings,

then I confirmed that, yes, tell me, describe which head you are looking at. So, he described it. So, I said, no, it's not that, it's this one. After that, I checked 2-3 times that every man is looking at the same thing that I am looking at. After that, then I said, okay, action station, engage. So, we engaged.

And we maintained the surprise. They were, they retaliated, but we were very accurate. And they were cut down.

And then we went in and injured, the lady was injured, IV was given to her, dexa was given to her, and the blood was stopped, she was evacuated, Dexa, and stopped the bleeding. He was evacuated and hospitalized. And those who left, they left. We mopped up the target and came back. This person who was injured, he swam across. He was shot six or seven times.

And he was hanging down holding the grass. He jumped down and hanged himself in the water. Then I talked to him. I said, man water and hung myself. I talked to him. I said, first of all, it's amazing, if you are alive and you came out,

I appreciate your Jeejee Vishay, which is called the desire to live. And he said, I jumped in the water and hung myself.

And when you left, I came out. Then I dragged myself. Then I met a fisherman. I requested him. He took me. Then I got first aid from a clinic.

And he was at his house. He was again in a bad shape. Good that he was caught. I think his leg was amputated. So... But he survived.

So this operation was done. And we recovered around 12-13 weapons. 3000, more than 3000 rounds. Weapons of all sorts, AK-47, M16, Lethard gun, RPD, 60mm mortar, RPG. Everything was there. Everything was there.

So, and fire lasted only four minutes. So that was the training, you know, that was the training and, and surety in the heart of boys that we are going to prevail.

Often, special forces operations are like this, short duration?

Yes, like this. Short duration. And if you read the history of any country's special forces, special forces are used for precision strikes. And precision strikes cannot be never ending. It has to end. Strike, come back.

Go, strike, come back. Before anyone realizes what happened. So that is the special process. That is the special operation. And all these special operations are based on accurate information. They are based on accurate intelligence. Information comes, you convert it into intelligence,

analysis is done, then a plan is made, then rehearsals are done on that plan, then it is improved. You think what operation has been done, but behind that there is so much hard work. You train every contingency from your side and go in. And still it is possible that you may not get the result you want. Because the next one is also going to fight. He has also got bullets.

That's the fun. That's the war.

You want a challenge in front of you?

Say again?

In combat you wish for a challenge in front of you?

Absolutely. Whoever joins special forces, he wish for a challenge in front of you? Absolutely. Any special forces that joins, they join for challenges. No one in the special forces went and didn't see the bullet. There is no one like that.

What is the most challenging terrain?

All terrains can be challenging in themselves. I have operated in the Northeast, J&K, Glacier and Sub-Sector North. I was the Brigade Commander in Sub-Sector North. So, there are challenges in the high altitude and jungle. But you are trained to overcome those challenges. So you have all the tools and methods

to operate in that terrain. That's what you are made to do.

Was there any frustrating terrain in your memory?

No, there was not frustrating. Frustrating was like, when we did operations in the East, the groups were on all the tracks. They knew that the army would come from here. So they had an ID, Improvised Explosive Device.

So we had to walk in the drain. We used to walk for many kilometers in the drain, which made our feet, what do you call it, our skin softened and blisters appeared. So it was a bit frustrating. We couldn't even walk on the track.

But that's another challenge, that too in the battlefield. You won't find a flower bed in a battlefield.

Plus leeches.

Leeches too. There are 100 leeches on one leg. There are leeches in other interesting parts too. They get stuck anywhere. Then we take them out.

Oh! With salt.

We take them out with salt. With salt. And some of our seniors used to smoke and also put leeches on the ground.

Special forces.

Wow.

With respect to the terrains, I have to obviously ask you about wild animals. Any memories?

I have seen a lot of wild animals. Wild animals? Yes, wild animals. In Tamil Nadu, there is Manas Tiger Reserve. I have seen tigers there. Tigers know that these are armed men.

They are dangerous. Animal knows that there is a person with weapon. He knows. He won't come near. So we were walking and suddenly I saw tiger paw. And it was wet there. The ground was wet. So, the water was filling it. I mean, if you put your feet there, the water will…

So, I said, it just went. Two paws. The rest was vegetation. I didn't see it.

I said, it just went.

I told the boys. It just went. And then we heard the grunt. I told the boys, he's gone. And then we heard the grunt. And suddenly the bushes parted and we saw a tiger dashing out. He was not attacking us, he was just running away. He knew that these are dangerous people.

Because all of us were armed to the teeth. And similarly, we used to set up ambushes. So, there was an elephant movement at night. So, we used to set up a fire for that. Ambush over, we set up a fire and sat down. So, there was a fire and the elephant wouldn't come there. So, there are a lot of such things.

I have seen a lot of bison and gore.

Have you had combat experiences in high altitude?

In high altitude, my combat experiences were in the jungle, in Kupwara, that is not high altitude. And in high altitude, I was a Brigade Commander in the sub-sector north, so it was a combat- a situation, there was no combat, and there was tension, there was preparation, there was training, but there was no combat. I took over the brigade after the Galwan incident. After the Galwan incident, the India-China conflict, I went to in the 81st Brigade. So, till then the situation was tense. But both sides showed a lot of patience and now they have come to an agreement. But the situation was very tense and anything can happen at any time.

And we used to prepare for that. Continuous training. Continuous training. How is Galwan as a region? It is a dry arid desert. It is an arid desert. There are rivers. Galwan

flows through the river Shok. And there are many tributaries in Shok. There are glaciers. Very big glaciers. It is a very beautiful area. It is a very beautiful area. And that Karakor that was a silk route.

It was built during the reign of King Kanishka II AD. And I rode on that route. I rode my horses on that route. So, that route is still there. The route was still there in 1950 when the Chinese closed it. And there is a place called Dauat Beg Oldie, DBO. Dolat Beg was Sultan Saeed Khan.

He was Babur's brother. He was Babur's brother, cousin. And he came from Karakoram Pass and attacked Baltistan. And he massacred many Baltis. And when he was going back, he got altitude sickness. He got hypo and died there. So that's why it's called Daulat Beg Oldi.

Old rich man died here. And it's said that his treasure is also here. So people have searched a lot for Daulat Beg Oldi's treasure. But no one found it. It's a very historical place. Karakoram Pass and this area.

Have you ever interacted with Chinese soldiers?

Yes, we used to interact. Can we talk in English? We are interpreters. We talk through interpreters.

What is the vibe that they have?

Professional Army. They are a professional army. Officers. Absolutely. Professional Army and whatever is their policy, whatever is their thought process, they are very very doggedly behind that. As we are. As we are. It is very natural.

Mutual respect?

Mutual respect, absolutely. Both sides. Soldierly, this is what a soldier does. One soldier respects another soldier. respect others, even if they are in the enemy's camp. But the respect is still there. Is it fair for me to ask you about features about the Chinese army? Features? As in, do they have any personality traits as a collective? Yes, I mean, everyone is physically fit. And they are all the same. The body is like someone has been taken out of the same machine.

So, they are like that. And there is uniformity. From shoes to cap, everyone is uniform. And they have worked a lot on equipment and so on. So, they have equipped their soldiers well. And their conduct is very professional.

Whenever there is a response, we have a response, and there is a Chinese response behind it. It comes in the same measure. It comes just as strong. And enemy worthy of respect.

And opponent, I would say not enemy, opponent worthy of respect. And opponent, I would say not enemy, opponent worthy of respect.

Sir, I would like to ask you about two different generations of SF. Your generation and your generation. Is there a difference? Is it similar? Is it an extension of the same?

In your generation, technology has come. And our generation and the generation before us were hardcore. They were very, most of the time, into the physicality of it. Today's generation is mind and body both. We were both mind and body and our predecessors were also mind and body. But we were, there was no technology.

Your generation has more challenges. Because the opponent, the enemy has also advanced technologically. And has or lethal. So, the current generation has already dealt with physicality. Physically, he has to be there to deliver the violence. And then, while he is there delivering the violence, he also has to be very, very proficient with the technology.

He cannot be the one who doesn't know about communication. He has to be very good with communication. He has to be very good with demolitions. He has to be very good with algorithms which are required to be decoded. He has to be very good with satellite imagery. He has to know everything about UAV operations because UAV has become part and parcel of each unit.

He has to be very good with all the weapon systems, advanced weapon system. Sniper rifles are so technical these days, you know. So, present generation job is much more challenging than us.

Why sir? Sniper rifles are more technical now.

Yeah.

What happens?

The scopes are better. Okay. And when you get high power scopes and high capability scopes, it is a technology. Now the zeroing has to be there, how you aim, that has to be perfect. You have to sync your physical ability with the technology. Then only technology will work. You have brought the technology, but you don't know how to do anything.

So how will you do it? So you will have to have knowledge. You will have to have knowledge. And you will have to study for knowledge.

It's a very wide question.

Okay.

And I don't know how you'll answer it. But the common people again, don't know anything about weapons.

Weapons also have to live. We say that weapons will only work when they are a part of your body. When training is given to us, especially in special forces, weapons will only work when they are a part of your body. 24 hours with the weapon. And if you don't have the weapon for 24 hours, then you won't be able to use the weapon with that dexterity. You won't be able to use it with efficiency. If you can't use it with efficiency, then you're dead.

Because the person who is more capable than you will kill him. So in civil, people don't know what a weapon is. They don't know. They don't know.

What was your favorite weapon in your time?

There was a VZ 58 rifle of Czechoslovakia. Very light, 2.9 kgs. That was my favorite weapon.

Why?

Light, accurate and lethal. Like very accurate. I used to do it from the open side. It was my favorite weapon. Why? Light, accurate and lethal. Like, very accurate. I used to do it from the open side. And then, followed by, we had Bulgarian AKs. So, that became...

Then, there was a night side, Noga light. We had zeroed it. So, I zeroed my rifle with Noga light. And it became very deadly accurate. So, my senior, who is no more, who died in a battle. So, he would steal my rifle and take for operation.

Give me my rifle. So, because I used to, you know, take care of my zeroing. I used to keep it with me. So, but he would, very, very like a brother to me, Vivek Singh Bhandral. And in one of the encounter, he dropped three terrorists with three shots with my rifle. With my rifle.

So, like that.

So the term mental strength, how would you explain this term to the audience? And especially over the course of being a veteran, having served in the special forces.

Is mental strength increased every year? Mental strength is something that you set a goal and then until it is not achieved, you don't back off. You achieve it and you take a step forward. No matter what obstacle you face, you keep going. That is called mental strength. Because mental strength is the power that makes you capable of achieving any goal.

And you are able to achieve your goal. So, I call that mental strength. Once you have thought, you have to do it. And no matter what happens, you have to achieve it. So, that is mental strength. What propels you to do it, that is mental strength.

And after joining the Special Forces, and the life I lived in the Special Forces, it is much better than that. Our probation is organized in such a way that your mental strength is checked first, and gradually you are forced to have a different level of mental strength. And when you complete your probation, and when you are selected or rejected, the number of people who are rejected is also high, and when you are selected, you feel that if I do this, then this is a game of Maya.

So, the probation of special forces makes you develop that mental power more, makes you more brilliant. First it tests whether it has that basic mental power or it doesn't break. It doesn't break where pressure is put. And it's not breaking, it's still there. We're not letting it sleep, we're putting it in continuous physical stress. It's running 20 km every day, 40 km. It's not being allowed to sleep at night. Punishment is being given in water.

And then it's being asked to give a presentation, and then he is asked to give a mental test, and then he is given a math question, and then he is given a demolition formula, and then he is asked to solve it. He has no routine.

At that moment, it is told that the routine is already made, and the probation is arranged. But the probationer does not know what's going to happen next. The professional instructor tells him. So there's a mental tension of what's going to happen next. And finally, you stop worrying about it.

Whatever happens, we'll see.

Fair to say that definitely there is a physically grueling experience. Along with that, there is an element of mentally grueling experience due to unexpectedness.

It happens due to unexpectedness. Then you are given many tasks. You are absolutely tired. You are not allowed to sleep. And you have been brought here after doing a difficult route march. You have been brought here after running.

You have been taught mixed martial arts. You are beaten up. You have been beaten up, you have been beaten up, you have been beaten up, you have been beaten up, you have been beaten up, you have been beaten up, you have been beaten up, you have been beaten up, you have been beaten up, you have been beaten up, you have been beaten up, you have been beaten up, you have been beaten up, you have been beaten up, you have been beaten up, you have been beaten up, you have been beaten up, you have been beaten up, you have been beaten up, you have been beaten up, you have to present your thoughts in a coherent manner, in an organized manner. So you didn't sleep, you came running, you have been beaten up in the MMA, you are hurt, because anyone beats a new man. And then they tell you to give a presentation. You are giving a presentation.

What is the commonality in the mind of every commando?

Never, never, never give up. That mentality.

That mentality. I won't leave it.

But you know, a lot of people will feel that yes, this is my mentality too.

That's a good thing. It's in every human being. I mean, where a person has reached. Because people are busy with never never never give up. That's why the creature comfort that we are seeing today, a lot of people have worked on it. It's not like that.

There is a mic, there is light, there is electricity, there is water, there is road, there is rail, there is airplane. It's the result of someone's never never never give up that a person has reached here.

I think you have knee injuries too.

It's everywhere. Head injury, my brain hemorrhage, ACL tear is here, fibular head fracture, transverse fracture, thoracic 789,

L4, L5, S1 is gone, L2 fracture, there are many more.

All this is due to operations.

Some operations, some fell in horse riding, some fell from the mountain. Sometimes, some weakness developed in the body, so it blacked out. So, fell like that. And got splintered.

It's an injury.

In 1999. Where did you get a splinter?

Here.

Behind.

And later I got to know. I got a splinter in 2014.

So...

You were carrying it?

Yes, I was carrying it.

For how many years?

From 1999 to 2014. And I didn't know.

15 years?

Very small.

They were very small. They were febrile.

They came out.

Do you remember what exactly happened in 1999? We came to the artillery fire center and ran and took cover. And when the fire was lifted, it was called lift, the fire was lifted. When the enemy's fire was stopped, when we came out, the officer said, sir, blood is coming out. So I saw that.

It was a scratch. It was nothing serious. We put a tension iodine in his hand and then we forgot. He got well. And finally, the problem started in 2014.

What?

The blood started coming out of the boils.

On the hand?

On the hand, here and here. So, they were taken out. After the operation. I didn't know, so I went out and got the operation done. So, they came out. And when the biopsy was done, I found out that it was steel. So, that steel was in your body for 15 years. Very small particles. Yes, it happens.

And the body has a defensive mechanism that

it makes fibroids all around. I mean, a protective layer of muscles and tissues comes. So that becomes like... Coating. Coating and... Like chickpea, it becomes like that. It becomes like a lump.

You mean, artillery in 1999?

Yes, 1999. Is this Kargil? It becomes like a gant. You mean in 99, artillery?

99.

Is this Kargil? Yes, in Kargil war. But you were a commando then? Yes, I was a captain at that time. I don't know if I am allowed to ask this, but when we think about Kargil, we think about infantry.

We think about the soldiers. You don't usually place special forces alongside the thought of Kargil. Because special forces is associated with precision based operations, efficiency based operations. They operate in stealth.

At least that is the public image. But in actual war also special forces…

Of course, it happens in actual war. And then it is not publicized. All these prison strikes, everything cannot be divulged. So, that is why the operations are called special ops and the forces which conduct these operations are over and whenever it is declassified, then they come in form of book and they become part of military history. But when the operation is being planned, operation is being delivered, you know, being conducted. And many years after that, they are kept under, you know, classified category.

Can we talk about your life right now?

Yes, of course.

You are doing skydiving very actively.

Skydiving has been my passion. And it started with the army because in special forces, we do combat free fall course. So I did it and after that I was the commander of the para training school. There is a school in Saraswava, a para training school. I was the commander and I trained the paratroopers.

I don't think the common people understand why the commandos have to learn the skill of skydiving. Like it might be very obvious to you, but can you explain it once?

This is a method of covert infiltration. Like if you parachute, in high altitude, high opening jumps, it is openly available, what is high opening jump,

you type it on the net, you will get the whole thing. So say you jump at 30,000 feet, and you open your parachute at 28,500 feet. So, you can travel at least 35 to 40 kilometers, to the winds are favorable or nil, winds are behind you, like winds are pushing you.

If winds are pushing you, you can go 45 kilometers, or 50 kilometers. And if winds are nil, you can at least go 30-35 kilometers inside the enemy territory or inside the contested territory without getting noticed by any radar, by anyone. It is that potent a method of infiltration.

One more small question. What is the height of the normal commercial skydiving versus the skydiving that commandos go about?

Normal commercial skydiving, max 15,000 feet.

Okay.

Which is very rare in countries. In the US, they touch 15,000 feet. Otherwise, the general accepted international norm is 13,500 feet.

Okay.

13,500 feet is the height, from where this normal skydiving is done. Whether it is solo jump or free fly or tandem jump. But the military jumps, they are as high as 35,000 feet. 35,000 feet. Oxygen jumps.

So you jump at 35,000 feet, open your parachute at 35,000 feet, and then after you travel under the canopy in the night, on the compass, on the GPS, you infiltrate. Travel under the canopy means? Means the canopy is open and then you are just gliding inside. Parachute is open. Parachute is open, so the parachute glides and takes you.

And it doesn't have any radar signature, which is so small and hardly any metal.

Night, night.

Altitude is of 30,000 feet. 30,000 feet, 25,000 feet to 30,000 feet. People have done it at 35,000 feet.

And oxygen mask?

Oxygen, everything oxygen.

Yes.

Okay.

It's a very different operation in itself. You have to be physically, physiologically, psychologically, mentally on a very different level to be a combat free follower of that nature.

Why?

You see, when you are jumping in the realm of 35,000 feet, first of all you need to acclimatize. So it is not an operation that you sit and go. You have to be acclimatized. You will be going in a high altitude area, you will acclimatize and then you are ready for the operation. And you jump at say 30,000 feet, for example, let's keep 30,000 feet. So, 30,000 feet is higher than Everest.

All of a sudden you are at 30,000 feet and you are jumping out. So, but you are at 30,000 feet and you are jumping out. So, and but you are taking oxygen. But now for that when you go to it there's a thing called pre-breathing. So, you pre-breathe oxygen, pure oxygen you take and from inside means by doing your pre-breathing your system is acclimatized to jump at that altitude and then you come to a bailout system,

it is called PBOs, Personal Bailout System. You remove the pre-breathing console and then you are on the bottle. But it is pure oxygen which you are breathing. Okay, there is no nitrogen in that, pure oxygen. And then you jump.

What is the height of the commercial flights?

36.

More than that?

36, yeah. Okay. No, it has happened at 35,000. Combat free fall, not that I have done. But I know the examples that people have jumped at 35,000 feet also. There are people.

What is your max height?

25.

How does the ground look?

From above, you can see a little curvature. When you are at that altitude, a little. Can you see the details? Yes, you can see.

But do you feel scared?

No, nothing. You get so many briefings while training, then it becomes again survival. That if you are not alert, you can't survive. So the mind is so focused, so focused, that nothing, anxiety is there, but anxiety is of ki target pe paunchna hai.

It's not about the jump, ki target pe paunchna hai, path mein. So that is the issue. So, wo karte hain. So let me just make sure I'm getting this straight. So basically, when you jump from that height, especially keeping an operation in mind,

if this is an enemy camp, they might not even notice your jump.

They won't. They can't.

Because you are so small in their eyes. This is the logic of high altitude jumps. So mainly it is for stealth.

Then is the travel. Like if you jump at that altitude, so you have the height and you can travel under the parachute. And every 1000 feet is 1 kilometer.

Means?

Means, say you have jumped at 30,000 feet, by the time you touch the ground, if it is nil wind, you will cover 30 kilometers.

Okay, okay.

So, 1000 feet, you are descending, you are going one kilometer.

Okay, I got it.

So, it's simple, very simple calculation.

But why did you say that there is a lot of testing done psychologically?

Because psychologically and physiologically, first of all, the physiology of the body, you have to be so fit that you can undertake that kind of rigors of the altitude. And psychologically, you have to be so strong mentally, you have to be so strong, first of of all to undergo the rigors of that kind of training and then you know the risk that at that altitude anything can happen.

Jumping is 1% of the operation. So and that if you see surviving in that that, at that altitude, in that minus temperature, itself is a very big thing. So, for that you have to be psychologically prepared. For a thing which is not even 1% of the operation. Because the operation is to go there and fight there.

That is the operation. This is just that you are going from point A to point B. It is like you are driving a car to reach somewhere. That is the only difficulty. So you have to be very very different psychologically. Very very different physiologically.

Very very different mentally. So those are psychological preparations. That what will be the result of everything if something goes wrong. Even knowing all that, you are training first. To go into that operation, it will be a tough training. In training, if there is an incident, the chances are more,

rather than in some operation. Because you can't put a jupadi there. Because if one person goes here and there, the operation is a fail. So, it's such a tough training. So, you have to be prepared in every way.

Have you ever had high altitude sickness? No, I have never.

I was very comfortable on the mountain. Mountains have been kind on me. And I found myself to be very, very adept. Like I never had any headache or... I have been continuously in high altitude. And for a long time.

And many times, without following the procedure, I have reached the top without acclimatization. But, you shouldn't do it. It's wrong. But with me, because I know my body.

I have been a fast acclimatizer. My body acclimatizes quickly. This is your natural ability. Natural ability. I know my body. I have been a fast acclimatizer. My body acclimatizes quickly.

This is your natural ability.

Natural ability. I will know it only after climbing a mountain.

Have you ever hallucinated?

No, never.

Never?

Never.

You've been mentally stable?

Once when I was coming down from Everest in 2001, I was very tired. After the summit, my buddy, Tilvitram, Vikram Buddha, who was the first GR, was very scared. After the summit, my elder sister, Tilwitram, who was the first GR, was left behind. I told her that he is coming, I will sit. I slept as soon as I sat. And then I was dreaming.

I was dreaming, you know, that someone is lifting me up, what is he doing? Then I suddenly woke up. I asked, what happened to Tilwit TV? Why is he looking at my face?

Then I realized that I am sitting at South Summit. I was like, how did the TV come in front of me? What is he doing? What is he doing near my face? And then it took me 2-3 seconds to realize that I am sitting at… He said, sir, get up. Where are you sitting? Are you sleeping? And you are snoring too.

Go down. So, I got up and slept on the side. Sir, I saw you. I was looking where you went. Sir, where did you go? And you are sleeping here.

Had he gone, I would have slept there. And in sleep, I would have passed away. Because on mountain if you are sitting at that place, there is a thing called hypothermia. So you get hypothermia and in sleep you go. It's a very very good death. You don't realize. Good death.

Because you sleep at home and suddenly your body temperature will drop. And you will pass away. Lot of people have died like that on mountain. He shook me. I asked him what happened to you. will drop and he will pass away. A lot of people have died like that on one time. But he shook me. I said, what's wrong with you?

He said, not me, you're sleeping on your own. So like that.

As you're growing older, do you have any religious angle in your heart?

Yes, I believe in God. God is God. And I believe in God. God is God. And I have faith. Before starting the day, I always remember my God. And then I start the day.

You know, it is said that there are some markers in someone's behavior because of which it is known that yes, they are making spiritual progress. But as the mind, heart, and soul calm down with someone's spiritual journey, people's instincts become sharper. Coming to the life of a commando, I am sure sir, over the years of carrying out operations, your instinct keeps getting sharpened.

Absolutely. And I am not just talking about combat, I would love to know about the combat aspect also. I mean, I have had many such incidents where instinct told me that something is going to happen here. Like once we went, we were on the line of control,. We were familiarizing the area. We were looking around in the jungle. I saw some issues with the vegetation.

I thought there were branches and one or two branches were broken. They were broken. So I looked ahead and I further and found something broken. Then I saw footsteps where there was no vegetation, just soil. They came and went. I told my senior, I said, sir, this is a wreckage, infiltration will take place from here.

I didn't know where they were infiltrating from. I didn't know where they were coming from, because they weren't coming from their traditional routes not able to figure out where they were coming from. Because their traditions were not coming from there. We were sitting there with our helmets on. I said, sir, they will come from here. You will see.

So we made the arrangement and sat there. We sat there for the third day. We came from there. So it was an instinct. And once, we had to go for a task, it was evening time.

I went to my senior, the same senior whom I had told that he will come here. I said, sir, something is not right. I said, sir, something is not right. But how did you know? I don't know, I mean from inside. I said, sir, something is not right. I am not feeling okay.

Not health wise. Something is not right in the environment. So we were talking. And after a while, we had to leave a post gate. So we were discussing and our time to leave the gate was over. And then the fire came.

I mean, it was a fatal attack. The time to get out of the gate was over. And then the fire came.

It was a fatal attack. And we fought on. We repulsed the attack. But there was something in me that told me that something is wrong. Sixth sense. Sixth sense. Whatever it is. Instinct.

Because when you are into that and you are thinking,

something develops.

Something develops. Once, I don't know, it happened many times. We went to a post office. We knew that ID is required. Explosives are used on the ground. So, the post commander said, Bro, you can see that ID and all are required here.

So, my driver was Ravi Sable. So, I said, Ravi, one guy is with me. He is my buddy, he is with me in Sky High India. So, I said, I will get the ID. The car was not less than 80 kmph. It was a Nissan Jonga. I said, I have to run.

We have to leave before it explodes. I will get the ID. I was so reckless. I knew that ID will be put. I said, from here, because I have to leave quickly. I don't have time. I ran. So, I sat in the car and ran. ID 40. And it was so strong that the differential of the jonge,

the two differentials, the tire and the differential in between, that is all metal. The slug, the ID that is created when the explosive explodes, the apex of the explosion is in that metal. And Jamba was lifted off. And all my boys fell down.

And Pramod and others were badly injured. I had worn that in my ear. Earlier we had a radio set called VPS Mark 1. So I had a earplug in my ear. Splinter, see my luck. Splinter took off the wire.

Only my earplug was left and the wire flew away. It could have gone inside. And as luck would have it, none of us lost the life, but we were injured, badly injured. I had only concussion and some minor damage in the eardrum. And Jaunga was lifted off, it fell, we all were off the Jaunga, we fell down and then we took cover. Luckily, there wasn't any ambush. And the crater was six feet deep, around four feet in dia. It was such a powerful IED. But we all survived.

And I knew that the IED will explode. So, these kind of instincts you develop. But can this gut feeling skill, can it be used? It won't work if you are working for gut feeling. If you are in any profession and you are living about it continuously, not thinking, you are living it, then you get that gut feeling.

Then you start getting to know. It comes in muscle memory.

I'm saying this with respect, okay sir. Don't mind me just telling you this directly. But we have recorded more than 900 podcasts. Special Forces, Vets always have a very different experience. The conversation, the mentality, everything is just different. If you don't mind me asking you this,

at this stage of life, what goes on in your mind? I live every day, one day at a time. From the beginning, one step at a time, so I live one day at a time. A good day for me is to wake up early in the morning, do my physical work, do my riding, then jump. And after living the whole day well, when you sleep at night, I stay there. I mean, I am not self-actualization, self-realization, all that is done.

Now it is living every day to the hilt, which I have been doing and I am doing the same thing right now. You don't live in the past or future. No, no past, no future. Like in the army, when I was in college, I saw the dream of the army. When I went to the army, I saw the dream of SF. When I came to SF, I had to do something. So this vertical wind tunnel and free fall was a dream.

It was fulfilled. God gave it to me. He made the situation such that I was able to do it. Then, while staying there, I saw that I wanted to do this. It was a dream of mine. So, I came here. So, it feels like God is creating the earth and giving me the opportunity to do that. I mean, I kept dreaming a lot, but a situation should be created for you.

Now, there is only one drop zone in India, in civil, and I am the chief inspector there. There is only one, there is only one in the whole of India, and I am the chief inspector there. I am. How can this be? I mean, situation. I don't even know these people. And finally I am here. Because I thought I have to become one. And I became one.

When you were working at the Commando Training Institute, you were an instructor. What did you seek out in the potential commandos? What are the green flags?

Mental strength. That the person doesn't break. This is the essence of commando training. To strengthen him mentally so that he doesn't break in any situation. And when you are mentally strong,

you become physically strong. So the aim of the commando Course is to make you mentally strong so that you don't break in any situation. And to make you mentally strong, when you target the mind, it becomes physically strong. It has no other option.

This is how the Commando course is structured. The special forces probation is also a long-term commando course. That is also structured like this.

But have there been situations where you immediately know that this guy can make it or not? I mean, is there an instinct or pattern recognition there?

In probation, there are more people, like, there are 10 people who came, only one qualified, two qualified. So, you get to know from the start, who will put the trowel and who will continue. In the commando course, there is no option, it is for 42 days.

So, if you don't do it, then you fail. And when you fail a course, your career is there only. You can't progress. You cannot progress. So there everyone puts in hard work and it is 42 days. And that kind of mental resilience comes. If you don't do it, you will be out of the army. You cannot fail the commando course.

And then you cannot expect to be anywhere in the army if you fail a course like commando. It is the basic course.

But probation is a different thing. It's an extended commando course. And the selection rate is very low.

What is the difference between the two?

In this, it is a very prolonged period. And then you are checked. In the commando course, you are with your course mates. Here you are with the troops. So, you may be very good in everything. You may be a very good speaker, you are physically fit,

you are bloody, you know, you're coming first in everything. But you are not a team man. So when we take, you know, the test of an officer or anyone who's doing the probation, we take the opinions of an instructor, opinions of the men and the team with whom he has spent time. We take their opinion, we have to give them marks. They only have to say yes or no. He's okay or he's not okay.

If the boys say he's not okay, he's not okay. Whatever you have done in the profession, you have scored 30 marks, you're the first in everyone, and you're a strong player. If the boys say, the youngsters say that he's not okay, he can't have come. Because he's not a team man. Ultimately, he has to lead. He has to command the youngsters.

If the youngsters say that he's not okay, that's the biggest test. That the youngsters say, yes, this is okay.

I think being a team player is one of the most important career skills in any field.

It's the most important in the army.

It's on another level important in the army.

It's everywhere. Like your institution that you are running, you need team men.

I mean, the people who are The individualistic people automatically drop off.

Yes, they cannot be in an organization which depends on teamwork.

They also don't grow to a very high level, usually.

Very difficult.

But how do these team players are recognized? What is actually lying beneath the ability to be a team player?

So, again I'll give an example of probation. You are not supervising, like you are not there. How is his routine? Like a probationer has come, number one, he's getting up on time. Thereafter, he is told that this is your job. You have to get up in the morning.

And what happens in our case is that we do line cleaning as well. We clean toilets as well. As an officer, when you're a professional, you get all the work done. So, a general supervision, no one is watching, but without seeing, is he doing all the work? And then training has started with the boys. So, now someone is in distress. Someone has got hurt.

So, you are tired yourself, no one is seeing you, no assessment is going on, you are going and helping. You are lifting his weapon, you are lifting his shoulder, you are motivating him. You are seeing his conduct, when it is off parade, when it is time for rest, what is he doing? How is he talking to the soldiers? Is he upbeat? Is he upbeat? And, oh man, where are we stuck? So, these small things make you a team player.

He helps, he motivates, he moves forward and gives examples. He is not giving examples to show off. He is just doing his job. And that is an example. When he was given a floor to clean, it is not that he did not clean the corner. He is cleaning it well. When he was given a toilet to clean, it is shining. So he is working there. He is using his brain there too. He is not doing anything there. He is saying that what have you given me to do? So he is a team player. Tell me a basic, menial thing.

You were given a task to clean the toilet. You looked here and there. You did this and left. And one person cleaned it. No one is looking at him. Who goes to the toilet to look?

And once you went back and saw, you did a good job.

Basically, in this team player bracket, there is integrity. Integrity.

Being true to your work. True to your work. Honest to yourself. And honest to the work. Then, empathy. If someone is weak or in trouble,

save them. Help them.

And set an example.

And the third thing that you mentioned is vibe. What kind of energy do you bring to the team?

When you see someone happy, you think who is this guy? And then you start crying. When you see someone happy, you think this guy is here. You crack jokes, you do this and that. You get happy when you see someone. And when you see someone else, you think, there are people who avoid you.

Energizer. That is important. Do you recognize bad energy people? After so many years? Yes, I recognize them. You are able to see through people?

More or less. More or less. I can recognize everyone. I can recognize them as soon as I talk to them. I can recognize them without hiding anything from anyone. You can tell. Generally, all the special forces vets

have very high level of intuition. They have done the same work for 30 years. They have done the same work for 30 years. They have been with the boys. They have been in very stressful conditions. They have done operations.

And our job is to find out in probation. To find out. So, the person I am talking to, like you or anyone else, there is a scanning. You scan. You scan and then you know

the initial impression and thereafter once you start working, you just reconfirm that the picture you have made by scanning in your mind,

is it getting ticked in that mind, is it getting ticked or crossed? So, more or less, it becomes an idea.

It's your own feedback loop. And because of that, your pattern recognition increases.

And then you also associate with those people. The friends, they will be the same people who you you frequently. Can I ask you about leadership, sir? Yes, of course.

Is there leadership in a person already or can it be taught?

There are two things. There are born leaders and in the academy, leadership is taught.

Do you think leadership can be taught completely?

Both aspects. There is a little leadership in it. Because look, a born leader will have some leadership element. He will clear the SSB and join the army. And then he is honed. SSB is this trick.

The one who has leadership quality, tested and then it is tested by the academies. Then it goes to the battalions and the battalions have their own routine. Then it is made a leader in a better way. So, this is a long process. But that leadership quality, they find the SSB, the service selection board, so that born leader, the element of born leader, the SSB finds out that yes, this is capable of happening,

this can be developed, they are filtered through the sieve and sent to the academies, then the academy kicks them out.

People say that when you get close to death, sometimes your whole life flashes in your mind. Is that true for the battlefield sometimes?

No.

It's not like that?

I don't know. People say that but when comes and when you are in a dangerous situation, your survival instinct kicks in. Your brain gets so focused that you want to get out of the situation. I don't know. It must have happened with people. But whenever such tough situations have come in front of me, I have become completely focused on how to get out of this situation. This, that, this, that, how to get out of this.

I get focused on that.

Can you give an example without giving details?

I will give an example of mountaineering. I was leading a parachute regiment expedition in Mount Kun, 7135 meters above sea level. This was in 2005. I was climbing the mountain and I was climbing the lead climbing. I was fixing the rope. So, what happens in rope fixing is that you have a rope of 5 people and you are tied to each other. So, I had the lead rope at the front.

So, the one who walks at the front, is tied to the one at the back. The delay is that you are tied to a rope and the loose end of the rope is near the one at the back. An anchor is made. From that anchor, the rope is taken out

and when you are climbing up, you are made into a billet. If you fall, the billet is immediately tightened and you hang. You don't fall down. This is the inertial concept of the billet. So, when I was climbing up and the rope was completely over. I was in an overhang.

It was not technical, nothing. I cleared the overhang and there were two ISX's. I got the ISX and the car was in perfect form. And when I saw my rope was over, it was tight. I told my buddy, what happened? Sir, the rope is over.

So, now the training says, the concept is that, don't move ahead with the belay, never open the belay. I should have come down. You know, the rope is over, let's come down, make an anchor, get this man ahead, and get get more rope and then climb up. But he was saying, now I have reached up because I have an ice axe form, both the axes are on and I am opening the billows.

Right? And I opened the billows. And he is telling me, sir, let's come up. I said, no, no, I have reached. Because it was completely flat up there. And I opened my eyes and as soon as the other one came, I had a complete eye-slap.

So, there are five boys standing in front of me. There is another rope below that of five boys. It is below me. I am here. It is here. And it is vertical. I fell from here. I was 82 kgs. I am still less. 82 kgs.

I fell and now it is death. Because it is steep slope. Now these boys, now you see the Indian Army training and Indian Army commitment. If I throw something at you, what will you do? You will duck. Is it natural?

In place of ducking, I am 82 kg. They pounced on me. They pounced on me and I took them with me. Five of us, we just went like a ball. The boys who were watching later, they could only see the snow. It flew so fast.

I had two ice axes, now it is death.

And we were picking up speed.

I had one ice axe, so I hit one ice axe. The blue ice came out. The blue ice came out from the other ice axe. And we were picking up speed. And the boys were hitting me, I mean, they were upside down. They were wearing crampons and so on. So, I got hurt here, my blood got splashed. My clothes got splashed here. Still, now the whole focus is nothing flashed in front of my eyes.

No, my family, nothing. How to stop this fall? So, I straightened my hands and by body stretching, I hit both the ice axes inside. I stopped and I stopped, the boys were holding me, they also stopped. And then my retired Subedar Major Kaman Singh, honorary captain, he said, sir, look behind. At 15-20 feet, it was like this, like this and then 1000 feet.

Down straight. So, but nothing flashed, you know. And we were very close to, all four of us, five of us, we were just very close to that. And had we not stopped, we would have been history. I wouldn't have been sitting here.

This is one such incident. It has happened. But, so, the only thing which was flashing is I have to stop. Mind was focusing, please stop it. Both the axes have to be driven inside the ice. And they went in.

Only in the moment. In the moment. So probably, people would have felt that their whole life has been flashed. Or what do you call it? This is a metaphor. What do you call it? What is the word in English? That my whole life is not with me. I mean, death is waiting for us. Stop it. That's where the focus is. Nothing comes.

Shikhaut Sir, this was today's podcast. Have to, have to, have to salute you. Thank you for your service for the country, sir. It's all the respect and love from the whole youth of the country. And I know that you get a lot of love on social media. But I hope in this moment, you really understand that you are very loved. The armed forces are very loved. But just want to thank you

for your service. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for coming to the studio. I know ki you would have preferred ki main. Ab tereko aana hai wadah. Anjiya nahi. Aajaunga.

Promise. And we'll document it. Come to Sky High and come to my village.

Done. Done. Thank you for coming in, sir.

Welcome.

Thank you for giving us a podcast and just enjoyed meeting you in life. That's all I'll say.

Thank you.

Thank you, sir. Salute you again. Thank you, sir. Salute you again.

Thank you. 🎵