CNN interviews Nick Shirley on his childcare fraud claims in Minnesota

The Trump administration says it is now withholding all federal child care funding to the entire state. The agency says the state receives 185 million dollars for 19,000 children and now that money will be gone and the agency did not specify any alternate plans for families who will be affected. DHS and the FBI said they were surging resources to Minnesota to investigate what they called suspected fraud sites. This all comes in response to a viral video posted by a MAGA content creator. He claims that he uncovered widespread

fraud by Somali-run child care centers in the state. CNN is looking into those claims and has not independently verified the accusations, but the Deputy Secretary of Health and Human Services is taking the allegations at face value. Take a listen.

Intrepid journalists have made shocking and credible allegations of extensive fraud in Minnesota's child care programs. We believe the state of Minnesota has allowed scammers and fake daycares to siphon millions of taxpayer dollars over the past decade. Starting today, we require a justification, receipt, or photo evidence before we make a payment.

However, the so-called evidence comes from a man who has posted anti-Muslim and anti-immigrant content in the past. CNN's Whitney Wilde speaks to the man behind that video and takes a look at his claims.

We're from CNN, can we talk to you?

This is MAGA YouTuber Nick Shirley. Back at a daycare in Minnesota, he alleged was a fraudulent facility in a now viral video.

You're going to say it's a left or right issue?

No, fraud is fraud. I'm not out here trying to put a twist on things. Shirley's viral video released over the weekend in which he says he's uncovering tens of millions of dollars in fraud at Minneapolis daycares run by the Somali community was retweeted by Elon Musk and Vice President JD Vance. In the video Shirley tries to open locked doors and talk to people at various daycares he claims are frauds. Did you come during their normal operating hours when you came to visit?

I came at 11 AM, I believe, and I also came the following day later in the day. The point of it is not whether or not I came at the right at the right time of their operation hours. The point is that blocked outdoors, they can't give you any

information. You call that number, no one answers. I wasn't trying to go inside. There should be a way for somebody to actually be able to call that number and somebody to be able to answer. These aren't real businesses.

But surely you don't think a daycare should just be unlocked. You shouldn't be able to just walk into a daycare.

It shouldn't be a reception.

It is a reception.

No.

Every daycare is locked. then why can't they actually give me information how to enroll a child? Federal law enforcement has been investigating fraud in Minnesota for several years. Both Attorney General Pam Bondi and FBI Director Kash Patel said on social media they've indicted dozens of defendants. DHS has posted multiple videos of agents they say are conducting a massive fraud investigation. Do you think that federal law enforcement hasn't done enough? I mean they would say look these fraud cases have been going on, but they've already done like 80

indictments. The cases have been going on, you know, for years.

And why did I show up one day in Minnesota and go to all these daycares, no children, they're receiving millions of dollars. We uncovered nearly a hundred million, $110 million in fraud in one day. How do you know that all the allegations that you're making are true. How do I know that they're true? Well, we showed you guys what was happening, and then you guys can go ahead and make your own analysis.

We're coming so we can make our own analysis. Are you 100% sure you're true?

Yeah, I am 100% sure I'm true.

CNN is looking into Shirley's claims. Hi, my name's Whitney Wild. I'm a correspondent for CNN. to several of the daycares featured in the now viral video. Only one daycare facility answered and said they are a legitimate business.

Have you seen the videos, you know, purporting that some of these daycares don't have kids inside?

Minnesota Republicans say, despite the new focus from the Trump administration,

they have been sounding the alarm on fraud for years.

You know, we have talked about fraud, we have gotten stories, we have tried to push this forward every way that we can. the state's largest fraud investigation. The state's largest fraud investigation has been going on for years.

You know, we have talked about

fraud. We have gotten stories we have. We've tried to push this forward every way that we can at the daycare where surely showed back up a stream

of Children walk inside. You're saying that this is a fraudulent daycare. There's kids being

dropped off right now. Yes, the commissioner Children literally A viral video disputed claims and their full fallout remains to be seen. Dozens of fraud cases that DOJ is touting began during the Biden administration. Back in 2022, the U.S. Attorney's Office for Minnesota announced 47 indictments for this massive fraud scheme. Since then, they've indicted more than 30 more people, and in total, they have secured at least 56 convictions. Whitney Wild, CNN Minneapolis.

The group chat is back to talk about all of this right now and Sarah I want to go to you first. What do we know based on evidence about the alleged fraud in Minnesota and how legitimate

and widespread it may be? Well I think a lot of people were very apt to believe Shirley's videos because we had indictments in 2022 when reporting first came out about this issue. It was David Fahrenthold, then at the Washington Post, who started to unravel all of these claims. The reason why I think Shirley's post has gone viral amongst some of the conservative community is

because Minnesota is a politically convenient target not just for the president but for the party. Obviously the governor there, Tim Walz, was the running mate to Kamala Harris in the 2024 election. Ilyan Omar has long been a foe of the president's. And you noted up top that the ICE immigration raids on Somalis has been a priority for the president. So all of this collectively has made this story

something that people want to gravitate to. And in addition to that, previous reporting that uncovered widespread fraud in Minnesota from years ago also makes people more apt to believe this, where I think a lot of folks in the media, including, you mentioned CNN, which is looking to verify this video, are showing pause and trepidation around Shirley's reporting. It's just that making sure that it's actually verified that it's showing fraud in a similar way that we all evaluated the initial reporting that came

out in 2022.

And Antoine, what does it say about the media landscape at this point when a YouTuber with an anti-immigrant past can post a video with scant evidence, we can say, that launches a federal surge into a state.

I think there are different types of media. And I think Sarah's right. Truth be told, there's been local reporting on this matter for years. In fact, there were 59 convictions under the Biden-Harris administration, as I understand it. And quite frankly, while there's a lot of attention on the Somalian community.

There's a white woman by the name of Amy Locke who was convicted, I think, on several different charges who were considered the ringleader of this. And many of these daycares have been shut down for other reasons, like their ability not to be able to operate properly in the state. I think the video, the YouTuber video, points to one of those who had already been shut down in the past.

And quite frankly, I think that the governor has been hamstrung by the legislature for political reasons. In order to do more, he was able to shut down the Housing Stabilization Fund, another accusation. So this has become politically convenient, and there's currency in this by this administration to make this a right-wing, red-meat, racial talking point about the Somalians and, of course, picking on Tim Walz.

At the end of the day, I don't think anyone wants to run away from accountability, particularly Tim Walz, who's up for re-election in the state next year.

And also, we know, as we mentioned earlier, VP Vance, he retweeted Nick Shirley's video. And President Trump has also been stoking anti-Somali sentiment for a while. Let's listen to some of that.

Look at Minnesota where Somalians have taken over the economics of the state and have stolen billions and billions of dollars. And what's happening in Minnesota with Somalia where billions of dollars is being stolen right like like candy from a baby.

So Terry, I'll ask you, where is all this headed, do you think, now that we have this kind of resurgence in reporting of the situation, and as well as the attention from the highest office in the land?

Well, I think it's a refreshing change from the Biden administration that was infiltrating Catholic organizations like the Knights of Columbus and classifying parents who spoke about school board meetings as potential domestic terrorists. Look, this is old. This is as I think I saw news stories and videos as far back as 2014, definitely 2018. These claims of fraud are verified. They are credible, they've been trying to do things here.

And, listen, I think that our justice system needs to be colorblind, because we know that fraud is not — or, I'm sorry, that fraud is colorblind. This is not about the Somalians. I think the reason that it's being focused on the Somalians is because they're the ones committing it. We took these people in as refugees, and it looks like there's billions and billions of dollars of scam. So hopefully we can get some convictions here and get some justice

because people need this money. People need help with daycare, and no one should be scammed of it, especially taxpayers.

Well, if I can just quickly add, keep in mind, Trump University also was convicted for fraud. And I would also add that this president has pardoned those close to him who's had their own allegations of fraud. So we should keep that in mind. If we're going to be fraud, let's deal with fraud.

And we don't want to go tip for tap, but I do appreciate all of your guys' insight. but I do appreciate all of your guys' insight. Thank you to our group chat.