Daniel Cormier On Jon Jones, Dana White, Conor McGregor, Khabib, LeBron, Tom Brady & Jake Paul

Got the roll of dice, that's why. All my life, I be grinding all my life, yeah. All my, got the roll of dice, that's why.

All my life, I be grinding all my life.

♪♪

Hello, welcome to another episode of Club Shayshay. I am your host, Shannon Sharp. I'm also the proprietor of Club Shayshay. Stopping by for conversation and a drink today is one of the most accomplished and decorated fighters in MMA history. He's one of the great mixed martial artists of all time, a former UFC light heavyweight champion and heavyweight champion. He's the second fighter in UFC history to hold titles in heavyweight and

the heavyweight belts, a UFC Hall of Famer, a two-time Olympian, three-time Louisiana state champion, an all-American freestyle wrestler, color commentator, world class talent, a master on the microphone, a father, a husband, a legend. DC could stand for double champion, but in this case it stands for Daniel Cormier.

My man, man, say it again. When you say it all, when you say it all, when you say it all, man, I'm going to tell you, when you say it all, it's something. Because I grew up in Louisiana, I never could have imagined this life. I swear to God, I never could have imagined. And to hear all that, man, that was a ride.

Man, thanks for stopping by Club Shae Shae.

Thank you, Shan.

Man, you know when you stop by Club Shae Shae, you know you gotta have a taste of the.

Yeah, yeah, that Shae bottle of Pocay.

Yeah, man, award winning.

Award winning. It's great. You know anything about cognac? No, I don't, but I'm going to try that. Oh, it smells strong, too. See? Swish it around. Well, that's pretty good. It don't even really... Yeah, see, it ain't got that bite.

It ain't got that bite. I was expecting a little bit.

So my daddy drink like something.

We got to get you something. We We gotta get something for your old man.

That's actually really good.

Yeah, see.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's real good.

Let me ask you, when you hear what I read off, and you and I were talking before we started this interview, and you was talking about growing up in Louisiana

and the expectations of, and now? No, Shannon, I was a kid that I didn't do, I grew up in Lafayette, right, so it's not the best place. But I followed everybody, so I did everything they did. So when I was in high school my freshman year, I was a kid that failed off the wrestling team. I was a kid that had to go to summer school to get to 10th grade. I did all kinds of bad stuff until I started getting better at wrestling. And then I realized like, wait, this wrestling can take me somewhere. But even after

that, I never thought that I would have jobs doing what I do with the volume, working at ESPN, working at Fox that I used to. A lot of similarities, right? But like having those opportunities, I never could have imagined doing that because I didn't even go I didn't go to college for media

I was did right with the college to play sports and normally the best people that are in media didn't go to college for me Yes, especially when they do a sport It really helps if you played that sport. Yeah, you can speak through personal experience. Absolutely

And that's what people want to hear the people actually want to hear when you are talking as the guy that played The Titan the guy that's in the pro football Hall of Fame when you're talking about football Yes, because they know well he'd been in the trenches. Yeah, and that's what I do when it comes to fighting I can explain something in real fine detail. Yes, because there's no position I haven't experienced the good and the bad in my career

I'm gonna take it from this approach you got a late start to the you to MMA yep and Getting a late start that didn't deter you because now I'm looking at you what you were able to accomplish later in your career

Yeah, I mean, it's how is that possible DC? So I walked into that gym at 30 and a half, right? I turned 31 in March. I only fought for 10 years and at 41 I should have been done right, but the money I got to The money get good at the end whenever you weren't supposed to be doing it anymore But I I kept fighting but I walked into that gym, but because of my background in wrestling It gave me like a massive head start. So I went out to San Jose,

I went to multiple gyms recruiting. They were trying to get me to train, but I walked into AKA Bro, I saw Kean Velasquez, I was like, yo, that dude is who I wanna fight like, and if I can train alongside him, it will lead me to being one of the best. But at 31 years old, I was essentially making my MMA debut.

Because normally, guys that are really, really good, they start, obviously you got a wrestling background, but they've been doing this for an extremely long period of time, and you just basically, I mean, 30 years old with a wrestling background, but you gotta be multifaceted to be really good in the UFC.

The more rounded you are, the better you are. If you're one dimensional, you're not gonna have, you're gonna have a very short shelf life in that sport.

Yep, not today. You can't, you definitely cannot be one dimensional today. Back in the day, you remember Royce Gracie and those guys?

I do. They would walk with the jujitsu chain, big boxer, one brother went out there with one glove on, his name was Art Jimmison. He went out there with one glove. Can't do that. The first two fights that were in Denver, Colorado, I saw him UFC. Really? Yeah. You went? I went. See, that's crazy. I was telling David the story. You actually went to watch it? I went to watch it. Because I, you know, we're going to see if a karate guy could beat a this guy. And if a big guy could beat that guy. And I'm like, okay, so what about the class? And they're like, ain't no weight class.

I'm like, hold on. So a guy 125 could literally be fighting somebody 275? Like, yeah. I'm like, I don't think this is going anywhere.

But that's what drew you in, right? I said, you about to get the brakes beat off you. And he got his suit on and everything. Yeah.

And I'm like, what's he doing? He's like literally trying to lay down. I'm like, I don't think this, because I ain't never heard about no, DC, I don't know nothing about no Virginia jitsu. And he's like laying down.

I'm like, what you doing?

You go around there, you in trouble. Yeah, exactly. If you go down there with them, they were in trouble. But I had to grow, so my manager, still to this day, Dwayne, he calls me when I graduate college at Oklahoma State. He goes, hey, there's this sport, this is 2001, he goes, there's a sport that's going to take over. It's going to be MMA.

It's fighting. Have you ever been in a fight in your life? I started laughing at

All the time right and I think that That even though even though Shannon like we don't

Even though we aren't doing it correctly, right? Somebody's trying to punch you Yes, you're trying to punch the right so did it when somebody taught me to punch like I'm okay this is how it's done the right way correct, so it allowed taught me to punch like I'm okay. This is how it's done the right way, correct? so it allowed for me to uh Adjust to it much faster. I wasn't scared right? Like that's the biggest thing with wrestlers, especially Being scared to get hit you cannot be scared, right?

How is it that we're starting to see more athletes DC dominate in the 40s? We saw a guy like you see a LeB LeBron James, you saw a Tom Brady, you see guys that are playing at extreme, because normally guys, they're gone. By the time they get to the mid 30s, they're gone, especially in your sport, even in football, guys ain't playing that long. And every once in a while you'll get a Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, to see Tom play until he's, what, 43, 44 years of age, yourself fighting.

At 41, yeah.

That's a whole. LeBron's still being able to play at the level he's playing at. Why do you think guys have been able to do things to this level for much longer?

Because of the access to recovery. I think athletes are smarter today. Those guys are very young. So when we're younger like you're in your 20s You're 30. You're Superman. Yeah, you go to sleep. You jump out of bed. You go to train. Yes every day Yeah, then as you start to get old it the body starts to ache a little more But those guys in their 20s and 30s are not they're not rejecting the body anymore

They're saying that 25 while I may feel great, I know there are problems underlying for me that I need to address, make sure that I'm straight. I think that's why they're playing so long. But they're playing at an elite level. I remember when Peyton Manning went to Denver. He said it himself, he goes, I can't throw the ball down the field.

He goes, but I will manage a game. Every now and again I'll give you one that goes a little deeper. He goes, but I'm managing the game. Because at the point, we were still kind of living in that world where you just age, and then you age out. And even Aaron Rodgers right now, right? We'll see what happens this year, but last year he just didn't look like the same guy

and caught up to him quick.

Right. Going into a fight, because like you said, when you're young, you feel invisible. You feel you can't lose. As you start to get age, you're like, I'm not as quick as I once was. My reaction time is not the same.

My defense mechanisms are not the same. My spidey senses don't tingle like they once did. I'm not processing information. You know what I'm saying? The computer, the internet ain't working.

The internet, you back on AOL. Dial up, you on dial up.

No.

You exactly right.

But DC, I mean for you, you went in there and you did what you did to Steve Pig. Like, what was your thought process? Did you like, man I'm getting older, did you do any, did you train any different?

So at 39 I didn't. So I didn't at 39, This is the craziest shit ever. So 39 starts, right? In 2017, I lost to John Jones in Anaheim. So they called me, hey, you wanna fight another fight? It was like September, October. I said no.

I said, this was the first time I'd been knocked out in my life. Like in my life, Hannon. Like in football I would hit people and you kind of buzzed. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was knocked out.

Bell rung, you're stars. And all it was was my bell just got rung, right? You go back to playing. I got knocked out, man. Like he kicked me in the head and he hit me with a whole bunch of follow-up shots

and it put me out. I can tell you right now, this was in 2017, from the moment that fight finished all the way back to the ambulance, I still can't recall that time. Really? I can't make myself remember what happened. I try, I try now even at night to go,

man, what happened in that 10, 15 minutes? Dude, there's a video of me crying with Joe Rogan. He's interviewing me after the fight, but I'm so concussed that I'm crying in the octagon because I just lost the biggest fight of my career. They called me to fight again and I said, no, I said I'm going to let my brain rest

until the end of next year or the beginning of next year. I fight in January. At 39, I feel great. I win the belt back. I beat Stipe in July and I'm fine. I feel no age because of the late start, right? I'm only doing this seven years now, eight years. Because of the late start at 39, I become the double champ.

I defend the belt in Madison Square Garden. Everything's great. But on that morning of that fight with Derek Lewis, I get up to do my shakeout. I go run, hit my pads. As I'm on the treadmill, I'm like, I don't feel great this morning.

I'm kind of like achy, right? Shannon, I'm running, I sneeze. Bro, when I sneeze, threw my back out.

They what?

Threw my back out, I sneezed so violently.

That's like a baseball player doing a mess like that.

Yes, I sneezed so violently, my back went out. So now I'm stuck hunched over. Mind you, at 1 a.m. tonight, I've got to walk to that octagon and fight Derek Lewis. You can't lose a main event on the day. So then they come and they massage me, they give me a stem cell treatment.

They get me up and about around five o'clock in the afternoon, I go fight. One month after that, I'm in the gym training. I kick Kane's leg, he checks it, tingle goes all the way up my leg. The disc sits on my sciatica. Now I'm paralyzed almost. And from that moment on, I just was not the same guy.

It took one incident, a sneeze, essentially ended my career because I never want to fight again. Stipe beat me the next time, then he beat me the following time. It's like, I never, it was that one thing.

So I think these guys, while they're playing longer Have an ability to go long, but it'll be one thing LeBron. Yes, if LeBron gets hurt It's not gonna be like when he got hurt in his 20s He's really gonna that's the thing the bones back because when you're younger do the ability to bounce back Yeah

I mean an injury that would keep you down a day all of a sudden is two three days Yeah is two, three days, or maybe it's a week. And an injury that would keep you down a week when you're younger is keeping you down two weeks or maybe even a month. The body just doesn't recover.

With the football, like how old were you when you retired?

I was gonna turn 36 in two months.

So you were still relatively young. In today's game, though, you'd have played

three more years, right? But how did the body feel? Right, yeah, because because they don't in training camp we had we know we have outside twice a day We hitting we have some days we have two a day practice. They don't hit no more, you know No, no, no, they don't hit them. Oh, we we hit we were for real real here Yeah, and we hit for real real in college and we hit for real real in high school. Yep, so But I think it got our bodies used to taking that we didn't't have these little tic-tac injuries that these guys get now.

But do you think that because you didn't have the wear and tear that, you know, say if you had gotten to this like in your 20s, like I think John Jones started at like 20.

John Jones started at like 19.

Yeah. Do you think because you didn't have the wear and tear, because like you said, even though you had a short shelf life, really you only had like eight years.

Yeah, yeah.

I fought for eight years. I was the champ. I was in the championship for eight years. I fought for the belt those last two years. That didn't mean I was necessarily in the picture, right? I was fighting for the belt because I have the name value.

I was fighting for the belt and I'm because I was the champion, I had to defend. Sure I was beating Stipe, but man by that old monkey jump on my back in the third round, I was beating the shit out of him. By the third round, the monkey jump on my back, I was like, yo, I am exhausted. I'd never felt that before. Wow. Yeah, it was crazy.

It is the scariest thing that you could ever imagine in your life. I've been in some some hairy situations inside that octagon Not having the energy to fight. Mm-hmm Cuz that dude wants to kill you. Yes, but if that like if that referee don't take him off you he'll keep beating you up That's how you got to approach fighting right so it's like it that's a scary when you're like you get off that stool and you're Like oh my god. I don't know how, have I got 10 more minutes?

Right.

I'm scared. I forget who it was, but I remember there was some lady that she like woke, she's like, I was in the ring and I realized I didn't wanna fight anymore.

Ooh.

I was like, you probably wanna like, Maybe or maybe even a night in the back. Yes, but you don't in the ring and she I forget a night. Um She fought. Yes, he got knocked out. Didn't she she lost? She lost Misha Misha Tate. Yep. Misha Tate. Yep. I remember saying that Boy, that's an awful time to find out you don't want to do something when you're actually doing it Yeah, there's some questions before yeah every time

Oh, yeah for sure every time you there's some questions I used to watch I used to watch Floyd and All them dudes like in the ring before when they're introduced no like how do they do that? How do they find calm in this with everything going on around them right with what's at stake? Yeah, and I was like man. I I couldn't do it, but then I would I would walk to that octagon It's the most like you know like you know right?

And that's why people that's what people don't understand when you hit that tunnel for a Super Bowl Are you at that tunnel for a big game your whole body's on fire? Yeah, you you you got goosebumps. You got goosebumps everywhere. What's going through your mind? Shannon, I'm in the back every time. And I would go in, same routine, I'm from Louisiana, superstitious. I go in the back and I go to sleep.

People would look at me like, how can you sleep? Knowing that in three hours you're gonna go fight for a world championship. Right. But I knew that my preparation, I left I left no stolen turn I'd done everything so the result was done right either I was gonna win or I was gonna lose because it was gonna be something that you did in that that I

Did wrong in that three hours, right? How do you settle yourself? I say because I'm ready, but they would I would be in the back I get up I do my warm-up then they would tell me. All right DC DC, you'll walk in a minute. And you start hearing music. All right, DC, we're walking in 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. And it's just nerves. I'm like, how many times should I have gone left? I went to college, Shannon.

How did I end up here fighting? Man, I hit that curtain. Thousands of people, 18,000. The UFC does an amazing job of walking you through the crowd. And the energy is just electric, and they're reaching for you, and they want a piece of you. And I couldn't even handle it.

I would run to the octagon, because it's just too much. I'm already jazzed. I can't take in any more energy before I step in there.

Do you see them? Because a lot of times, you get into a zone, DC, and you know, like you said, you don't even see the people. It's like a calm, like I'm in a game, and it's like a calm. I don't even hear the crowd.

It's like everything is just like hush. And all of a sudden you catch a pass, you touch the touchdown, and it's ah! You hear it all.

Yes. It's great, but I. So the guy that I'm fighting is already in there. Right. Right, so I'm not standing there waiting. Waiting. So I'm going second.

When I hit that freaking, when I hit that step, those steps, I'd walk up and I'd tap the octagon. That was some football shit we used to do. Always hit the, play like a champ today, right? Like, I would always tap the octagon. I go in there, bro, there's Bruce. Bruce is dressed to the dime.

There's some commissioners making sure we don't fight before. And then when they do the last instruction and you turn around, there's a pin that they drop to lock the cage. It makes that sound right there,

that he just dropped. I could hear it. 20,000 in the arena. And you could still hear that pin. I could hear that pin. And then I would say to myself, I swear to God, I would be like, somebody got to die in this, it ain't going to be me. I swear to God, every time,

I'd be like, somebody going to die in here.

I'm about to make you go unlock that gate.

Yes.

I'm about to go make you unlock that gate.

You either jump over this, Or they gonna pull me off of you by the time this is done right and that was always my approach because you had to Look at it like life and death. I had to I had so many things I wouldn't eat I Would like abstain from sex I wanted to be as primal as I could be going into the octagon

Would you cut okay? You're light heavy that way to 205 so now so what are you coming down from you coming from 230? You come from 235 you come from 230, you coming from 235, you coming from 250, where you coming from, D?

Shannon, my nutritionist was at my house for a fight I was supposed to have in January, but I got hurt the day before Thanksgiving. He had a turkey brine, a turkey in a brine. It was in a big old pail. It was white, though, Shannon.

He was gonna make us Thanksgiving dinner but it was not gonna be seasoned I got hurt right before Thanksgiving man we took that turkey rinse all that shit off made it ourself and season it the next day I weighed 257 pounds I weighed 257 and you gotta be 205 in January January 19th I weighed in at 204.7 I was 257 what I was huge I was big but like I was 257. I was huge, I was big. But I wasn't tall.

I know that's a lot of weight in a small area DC.

But when I would walk into the octagon, you could see where the power was in my ass and my legs. It was like all of this.

You were really explosive.

Exactly, and it was all in this, right? While I was the shorter guy short arms. Yeah, I had my torso's not tall, right? But like it's in my legs and that's why the explosiveness was always so on right on display. Yeah, it was good But it was the hands the best It's like walk dude when you're on when you're on that sideline and the National Anthem playing that feeling. Yes That's what we're feeling bro. It's's the best. That's why so many fighters end up on drugs and messed up.

Because you can't replace that.

You can't replicate that.

No.

And that's why athletes struggle once they leave their said sport. It's because you're never going to be able to replicate 20,000, 80,000, however many thousand. You're never going to be able to replicate the locker room. You're never going to be able to replicate the bus ride, the plane ride, just the camaraderie.

I don't know how- But that's what you miss the most. That's what- You literally miss the practices and afterwards just sitting there talking.

Yeah, I didn't miss the games. I mean, the money was nice, but you just missed the camaraderie, the laughing and joking, you in the line stretching and doing all those things. You mentioned Anaheim. You fought John Jones, I think you were 35 and he was 27. Yep, yep. If you guys were comparable ages, is that fight different?

I think there are a lot of reasons why he beat me. Have you met John Jones?

I haven't.

John Jones is probably 6'5", 6'4", 6'5". John Jones' arms are 84 inches apart, his reach. Wow. Mine are 72.

Yeah.

So like, he was taller, like, so even at the same age, he would still be taller. Yes. Two of his brothers played in the NFL. One was like really good, Chandler.

Chandler.

So I think I would be better because I would be younger, but I don't know if I could have been better in Anaheim because I trained so hard because he beat me the first time. I've never been better. When he beat me, I was never better.

That was the best you'd ever been.

I'd never been better. I would have beat everybody else in the world in all those weight classes. I was never better than that night. And he beat me. And even the fight up to the point that he got me, it was just super competitive. Right.

Joe Rogan said something to the effect of, you can clearly see you're watching the two best lightweights we've ever seen in an octagon. Right. Because we were both so locked in. So I don't know that the age made as much of a difference because I just think that he has a lot of built-in advantages. Yes. With his height and his reach and he's got great timing and he's tough, dude.

Right.

He's very tough, Shannon. Like, I would club him upside the head and he would just keep fighting. He would just... and not many did that.

And that's what I want... what makes him... because like you say, okay, he's 6'4.5", he's 6'5", 84-inch reach. He could punch you, he could take you down.

See, he don't hit very hard though, with his hands. He does not punch hard. Really? No, he does not punch hard. So we were, I went into the fight, I talked to Rashad Evans, and Rashad goes,

he doesn't hit hard, but he has other weapons. So we first started fighting the first time. We trade jabs, because I had a real unique ability because of my athleticism to get to the jab even though the guy was taller. So we'd jab each other and my nose started bleeding. I was like, well, why my nose bleeding?

He don't hit hard. My shit bleeding, his shit bleeding for different reasons. But um.

Oh, there you go.

No, no, no.

You don't say that. You don't say that.

You don'tging that. Ain't going anywhere. You're trying to say that. You're not changing that. You're trying to say that.

You're trying to say that with interviews.

So my shit bleed, right? And I'm like, why is my nose bleeding? I was like, why my shit bleed? So anyhow, we start fighting. And I'm like, OK, but I got to pressure him because I'm shorter.

Right. to get to him. He's got knees. Yes. Elbows. So by the time I get in, I've been needing the body three times. I've been elbowed two times. So now I get off, I get my shit going. And then we get apart. Right. So now I got to go all through the razors again to get my offense going again. That's what makes him special. He's a special fighter. He really is. And I respect him for what he did inside the octagon, Mainly because he beat me on that night like a and you said that's the absolute best never been DC has ever ever been Shannon I

Was I was in such great shape? My shoulders were like big I was lifting. I was running. I was training hard. I was dished I was welcome this I was mop you was ready to go five If Bob if five is what is required It's because we went 25 the first time yes right side and and my cardio failed me, okay? So I was like I need to be better cuz it's going 25 again, okay

And then ultimately he got me with the head kick right but I was in shape man. I was ready to go. My mind was strong Everything was ready to go get the job done right on that night, but he was he got it done What about him at what if y'all had moved up y'all similar name? Let's just say for the sake of argument you three years apart and now y'all move up and heavyweight No, he wasn't beat me heavyweight. He couldn't beat you? I don't think so, because I was good at heavyweight. Now, I think I was probably better at heavyweight.

You're probably a natural heavyweight, damn weird it's you beating me.

He's a natural weight. I was like my natural weight. But he almost admitted it. He said in the time that we were fighting, he goes, no, I'm me naturally. He goes, no. But then like a couple weeks ago,

he was talking about me fighting. I was like, bro, I'm 45 years old, man. I'm 46 now. Go fight the dude that wanna fight you. Like, you got a big old. Oh, he wanna fight you now at heavyweight?

He was talking about, I would beat DC at heavyweight. I've been retired for five years, my brother. Go fight somebody else, like I'm good. Pick on somebody your own size. Go fight Tom Aspinall. When you and John got into it at the presser. The very first.

Yeah.

What happened?

Damn, DC.

Hey, Shannon, it's so funny because MMA has struggled to enca capture the urban audience. Yes. It really has. John and I are going to fight the first time. John and I have had a, we've always had a history of not getting along great.

Right. So when the press conference happened, we came forward at the forehead, I pushed him, he pushed me, we flew off the octagon. That was right in the middle of football season in every sports center. Everything led with that. Because it was that big.

Lorenzo Pertini told me, he goes, you guys would have made so much money. He goes, you made great money in January, but it was six months. He goes, if y'all fought in September, he goes, you can't imagine how much money you would have made on pay-per-view. But because the fire had died down a little bit after six months passed. But we had that moment where the cameras kept recording. It was just, we just didn't like each other.

But after the fight, I was in Newark, New Jersey, walking around like I would always do. And that's when I realized that being in there with him had changed the way the public perceived me. Right? Because I'm in a very urban neighborhood, very black.

Everybody's like, hey, hey, hey. But I think it was because of what we did for each other. It hate each other, dislike each other. We did great business and we did elevate each other to the point that when I fought Stipe, I was able to elevate him because of the name recognition I got from fighting John.

Look, the elephant in the room, I saw what Demetrius Johnson says, because John Jones, the steroid is tied to his name, he can't be in the GOAT conversation.

I don't believe that. I don't believe that he should be considered the greatest of all time. I've said that. You can't, you can't you can't Shannon

Steroids yes in fighting is much different than anything else in the world. They make you stronger They make you faster. They give you endurance recovery ability when you train. That's what you that's what it That's mainly what steroids do it allows you to go to and go there and go hard, and go hard tomorrow, and go hard the day after, and go hard the day after, and go hard the day after. That's when you grow, that's when you become better. Because it gets to a point where you're like,

damn, I can't give you everything today.

But you can go back to back to back. And that was me at 36. Even though I was the best I could ever be, the best I could ever be, I'm working as hard as I could ever work in my life, knowing that I have to be ready. At 36, he's 28, right?

So he's in his prime.

He's in his prime, but that's the fight that he actually tested positive and they made it a no contest. So while he's doing that, it's like you said, he's able to keep up with me work-wise, but exceed it. Because at a point, I gotta say, hey coach, I gotta take a morning, man, I need it.

I have to take a morning. And I don't know that he would need to do that. Yeah, so I don't, I don't, I don't.

Did you suspect at the time when you were in there

waiting that there's, they might not be on the up and up. No, no, no, no, no. I didn't suspect. He felt like he was always strong. He was always strong. He was always big. He was always in shape. It wasn't nothing that surprised me. What sucked was that I felt like I moved past it. Like, OK, this dude beat me twice. This shit's over like there's nothing I'm gonna do to be the champ because if I can't beat him nobody else is beat

The rest of these dudes ain't beating them because I know how much right because when I fight the other ones I

Destroy him right right because they don't have the tool, but they don't have the toolbox He got now exactly and plus he's six five six four and a half He's long long limbs and he like he has it all I mean you can elbow you can knee if he if you write a Checkbook a checklist of what you want in a fighter at 205 to heavyweight John Jones. They're talking about the White House They're talking about a White House fight card Amen, we got to have some Americans win. Yes. Oh, you know, I don't like John Jones, it's no secret, the whole world knows it. I say, man, y'all better put John Jones on there.

Because right now we ain't got one American in the top 10 pound for pound. I say, if y'all want an American dude to go get a victory, put John Jones in there. Because he gonna win, that's what he does. But at the end of the day, I still don't believe and I agree with DJ. It's like

You just can't have that tied to your name, especially in fighting right and people call you the greatest of all time

He's the greatest talent right the sport has ever seen have we

That's what I was about to ask you. Have we ever seen someone in that sport that possessed the arsenal that he has no

No, he's by far the he's by far the most talented person that we've had in mixed martial arts. In terms of his length, his skills, his mind, he's the most talented guy we've ever had. We've had great fighters. Demetrius Johnson was amazing. Khabib is amazing.

But Khabib did it through grit, determination, and hard work. Khabib wasn't gonna run a basketball and shoot it. John Jones, they got a video of John Jones trying to dunk a basketball. You should see that. That is bad. But obviously he's an athlete. Look at his family. Yes. Right. So it's like brothers playing in a family. Yeah. Yeah. He was, he's the best athlete we've ever had in terms of stare in terms of the best fighter of all time, I would never give that because of that. Now, he's not the only guy who fought on steroids.

I think that before they started doing all that testing, all those guys were doing steroids.

Really?

I really do. They just, I mean, many of them had popped for steroids before and I fought them.

And they had figured out a way how to cycle on and off

without getting tested.

So, cycle on and off or,

cycle on and off or they just weren't testing. Right.

I never took a drug test until I got into the UFC. I just went and fought. So I don't know what those guys were doing. There was a guy, they said that this guy got tested positive for something. They said USADA, who was the testing commission at the time,

bro, they got a bit like, I know when they're coming. They would come at 6 a.m. in the morning. I got tested 65 times from USADA, from wrestling to then, but look at me, I'm not on steroids. But you're hitting the numbers. I said that publicly one time way back in the day.

The next time they came to my house at four o'clock in the afternoon. So they were watching. But because they had gotten repetitive, they heard if I was doing it. One guy popped for something to Shannon.

They got him at 10 p.m. They said if they were to let him go to bed and wake up the next morning, they could have tested him, it'd have been gone 12 hours, 12 hours for that to get out of the system. It's crazy. The level of stuff they have out there.

Well, it's just like anything. I mean, they're going to come up with something that that's in and out. They got these peptides now. See, and you didn't, you didn't think it was going to be,

you thought you were going to have all that bite to it. I don't drink no, I don't got it I don't really drink it don't have to bite but there's the viral video of you finding out that he test positive and You used to like you was just so broken heart heart broken. It's like you it's like losing your first girlfriend I had a girlfriend growing up and me and her we went crazy, right? Yeah, you have sex for the first time it is all you want to do I'm checking myself out of school man to go meet this girl. She's checking herself out of school She's up in the middle of the night on the phone because her mom doesn't let her use the phone Our parents took us together. They found out what we were doing, right?

They sat us in the front yard and told us we could not see each other anymore that major. That's what it felt like Let me tell you something. I'm on the city bus getting over that. I'm telling you, I was in my 35s. I'm going to her house. Who doesn't want to go to work? And you said. It was like that.

I will sign a waiver. I want to fight it.

Heartbroken, because I know how hard I had worked. Again, it was just like Anaheim. I worked so hard to prepare myself, right? We are when you're fighting That's your business partner. Imagine you're playing the Kansas City Chief. Mm-hmm. And on Sunday, they just don't show up We don't practice all week then it just don't show right But your game check is tied to them showing up. Yes. Now you're like, hey man, you heard my business.

I know what the first check looked like when we fought. Right.

I want that second check.

And then by the third, and then hopefully we go a third time. You know what I'm saying? It's like, that was the hurt of it. And then it was UFC 200. Man, we were on Good Morning America together. It was big and I was like, man, we need a, I was heartbroken because it's not just me.

It was my entire team that worked so hard to make sure I was prepared to fight that night. So yeah, I said, I'll sign whatever I need to. But Dana was like, come on. Dana was like, you can't do that. You could tell he didn't want to tell me that.

You could tell it was like, he was like, can I talk to you? I was like, what do you need me to, what do you need? I was staying at the MGM Signature. Cause I always stayed like at that small little one on the side. He goes, can you come over to the arena right now? And I was like, why? I was like, it he's in the back in that hallway and he tells me. And he goes, we have to talk to the media.

I was like, damn, everything's in place and I didn't know. I was still just going about my day like I was gonna go cut weight to make for the fight. And he was like, you have to address the media. It's horrible. I was up there crying and shit.

Yeah, I know people do that. Man, DZ, what you crying for? DZ crying every time. All DZ do is cry. They done got me crying multiple times.

Did you drive home?

From, from, from.

Or did you fly after you found out that the fight was over?

No, no, no, I fought, I fought. Remember I fought Anderson Silva two days later. They got Anderson to fight, yeah, which was good. I actually, I got to fight Anderson Silva, which was awesome, but thank God Anderson said yes. Not many people would have done it.

No, no.

Not two days, no training.

But is it hard because you're fighting, because I've seen people take fights on short notice and kick the other fighter's ass because he's not prepared to fight that guy. You prepared to fight a guy with one style and this guy has a different style

and you're like, and something bad could have happened. So I was surprised you even took that.

So I took the fight because I want, dude, I wanted to fight bad shit. Like when you want to fight, you want the check. You want the check, but you want to fight. Right, right.

Cause that's what you do.

I cut all that weight. I was already 215 pounds. Like I don't want to go through all that. And then two months ago, you gotta do it again. Because as a champion, I would fight two times a year max. So I'm like, I don't wanna have to go through that again. So I fought Anderson. And it wasn't a great fight, because again, I was so nervous.

Dude, I was in the octagon, I looked across and I was like, the very first UFC I ever went to, I went to Philadelphia to watch Anderson Silva beat Forrest Griffin. And I mean Anderson was flexing on him. He's like moving sideways, punching him with one hand, Forrest is just falling down. He finishes the guy that was the UFC light heavyweight champion.

I was like, damn this is crazy, I'm fighting Anderson. I'm in the octagon, I go to the middle, when I walk back to the side shake, I look behind me and I said, oh my God, that's actually Anderson Silva standing over there. Like seriously.

I'm really fighting a legend.

I'm really fighting Anderson Silva. Yeah. Yeah. That was the first, I've never had that happen to me in my life. It was always somebody's gotta die.

Except for when I fought Anderson, I was like.

You're like, I don't wanna beat this man.

I gotta fight that problem. You don't take it easy on them? Dan Henderson was my idol. He was on the Olympic team. I choked him unconscious.

Damn, D.

I beat the shit out of him.

Damn.

You don't feel bad?

Hell no. Somebody gotta die. Jay, somebody gotta get it, all right? When you play your brother in football,

if you play your brother football if you play? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, we grow you want to lose No, I'm trying to I'm trying to kill him and we love him about it after yes John retires and everybody's that hold on bro. You retired and then two weeks later you talk about you in protocol again testing protocol

Yeah, that pissed you off did so when he retired it didn't I? Just want him though. I went to see him fight Tom Aspinall I just wanted to see him fight Tom Aspinall. He good Shannon. He literally has everything you want in the heavyweight He's big. He's physical. He can wrestle he's fast out Michael Bisping

Once said to me. Oh, I you, he could be like Muhammad Ali at MMA, I said, man, you're going crazy. I said, you're a person that works at the company, you're a person that people take your opinion seriously. You cannot be that strong on one side. He goes, I swear it's true.

He's fighting a guy named Sergei, who had knocked out 10 straight people. Nobody can go around with Sergei who had knocked out ten straight people. Nobody could go around with Sergei Tom Aspinall knocks him out in a round Walks into the thing and hugs Michael Bisping. I was like, I thought I said business I thought you were like his advocate you advocating for this dude But like he's actually that good right and then he beats up on Curtis blades

he beats everybody and so when I think about it, I'm like, okay now we get to see John because John and I did this thing called counterpunch where he sat on one side, I sat on the other with Joe Rogan. And John said, it was crazy because we just hated each other so much, we were just talking. John said to me, he said, at the end of the day, I'm better than you because I'm younger. He goes, you can't beat me in a basketball game.

I go, well, that's debatable. You cannot out swim me. You cannot run me. He said, because every day you wake up, you're a day older, and you look in the mirror and you see a 36-year-old man. I look in, I'm in my absolute prime.

I'm 28. He said, you can't be better than me because the laws of life don't allow for a 36 year old man to be better than a 28 year old man when we're doing the same thing. Tom Aspinall is 30 now. John Jones is 38. Now I want to see it. I want to see it on the opposite side.

Because he said, and he said, well because he's much younger and I've heard you and other fighters say, well you were, the older guy gave you an opportunity.

He dropped the ladder.

So return the favor and give this guy. You don't think there's any chance that John can beat him?

I do. That's the problem. If I had, I said to my, I said, gun to my head, if I had to choose, I would probably say John Jones would win. Wow. It's all I've seen him do. I've seen him fight.

He's right. He's everyone. This is always the next best guy. This guy is going to beat me. This guy is going to beat John Jones and what does John do? He vanquishes him. He beats him. They said about Gus, they said about Gusman said about me, said about Rashad said about rampage said about Cyril gone.

I mean he dirtied Cyril gone up. The man been away for a hundred years and walked through Cyril gone. Like he was like, you're gone with me. That was embarrassing. DC. That was embarrassing. DC. that's embarrassing. I've been trying to stay off of Cyril, man, because I like Cyril. You know, when Cyril was on the ground and he looked at him, I was like, he looked like he saw a ghost.

He was so in awe of John that he couldn't even compete with him. I was like, bro. He about to fight for the world title again. Imagine if Cyril gone and John go, OK, OK, I'm back. Yeah. gone when and John go okay okay I'm back yeah but I'll piss somebody off that'll piss people off

because if Cyril beats Tom because he's Cyril is that good he is he's that good he could beat Tom Aspinall no but Dana Dana ain't gonna let that happen what if John's like yo yeah all right you know you know Dana won't let that happen Dana will not let John come back and fight Seragon for the heavyweight title. He's like, nah, nah, nah, you gotta fight him. That would be the ultimate move of all time. I would laugh at that shit. I would be happy. Like John, you're cool for that one.

Okay, you say you can't put John as your GOAT. Give me a Mount Rushmore fighters.

Demetrius Johnson.

Okay.

George St. Pierre.

Okay. Demetrius Johnson, okay. George St. Pierre, okay.

Khabib, Khabib was undefeated, nobody beat him.

Fourth, God, that's where it gets tough. That's where it gets tough. Because you feel like you want to put like, when we talk about just accomplishments, no one's more accomplished than Amanda Nunes.

Right.

Can I really put her on the Mount Rushmore of fighting? But George, Demetrius, Khabib, God, there are some good guys. Chuck Liddell was good, man. Chuck Liddell's kind of responsible for us being here. Randy Couture won two titles in his bracket. I think that fourth place would belong to one of those guys, I think.

Somebody like that, because I would never put myself up there, right? But I'm right in that four to seven range of-

I thought you might put Anderson.

Anderson had the steroids, right? So I can't put Anderson. I would like to put Anderson. If I'm saying all those guys included, then obviously John and Anderson are on that Mount Rushmore. But I don't do that, I refused it. It's not in fighting.

Barry Bonds was a Hall of Famer before he even went to San Francisco. Correct. Right? Yeah. Plus he's hitting with a baseball bat. He's not punching someone in the face.

Women fighters. What did Ronda Rousey do for MMA?

Everything for women. Dana on record said, I will never have women fighting in the UFC or something very close to that. Then Ronda came along and she just opened up the floodgates.

And now Dana goes very, in his life, very rarely does he make decisions where he's like, I really messed up. He openly goes, Ronda Rousey coming in and making me take on female fighters is one of the best decisions I've ever made.

Because it gave me Amanda Nunes, it gave me Zhang Wei Li, Valentina Shevchenko. It's like all these women have an opportunity because of Ronda. No Ronda Rousey, like I don't know if women still today fight in the UFC. That's how important she is. Could she have been better?

I think she was at the right time also.

Right.

The girls just weren't well-rounded enough to compete with her. And when she got somebody that was well-rounded. You saw what Amanda did to her. I saw Holly Holmes Holly kicked her in the head that was that was probably the beginning of the end wasn't it? Yeah, well, you know again like, you know when it's done But at the end is when the money gets better than it's ever been

So yeah, she couldn't have beat him if she couldn't have beaten Holly. She was not gonna beat Amanda No, but I think it was just such a great pool to have her back that she did it

You mentioned this the UFC at the White House I think it was just such a great pull to have her back that she did it.

You mentioned this, the UFC at the White House. Dana, look, I was at the, when they had it at the Sphere. Oh, you went, huh?

I went.

Wasn't it crazy? It was amazing. It was amazing. And I wouldn't put anything, if Dana said they're gonna have a fight on the moon. Hey, I don't know where airline flying to the but it's gonna happen. It's gonna happen.

If he says they're gonna have it on the White House lawn. Now, I don't know how they go pat everybody down and frisk everybody, do background checks because maybe it's just closed circuit and there really only a handful of staff there.

No, no, I think it's gonna be an event. They said they want 20,000 in there. At the White House? At the White House. They got an Easter egg hunt at the White House where they put 28,000 Easter eggs.

But them kids.

I didn't. Hey, Shannon, I swear to God. Shannon, I swear to God. I was not believing it until I saw that they had that Easter egg hunt there. I was like, wow, well, then it's possible. Now, when Trump goes to a fight, we get background checks?

Yes. The night before they go to the arena,

they're sweeping.

They're sweeping the morning of the fight. They sweep before he shows up. I don't know, but I told Dana this recently. We were in New Orleans and I said, you're going to the White House for real. He goes, I said, because you said we got a year,

we're a year away. He was talking about, he was talking about something on an interview and he goes, we still got a year, the world's gonna change in MMA by that point. I said, you're speaking in definites. I go, this is happening, yeah.

We're gonna go watch a fight at the White House. That's crazy.

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when you bet just five bucks in partnership with DraftKings Sportsbook. The crown is yours. You said, look, we don't have really any Americans in the pound for pound top 10. And we just can't have, you know,

Barnum's coming in and winning all the fights at the White House. No we got so we got to you got to put John Jones on there. You got to put John in. Call Cabot. Hey I'm calling him Captain America but somebody got to win. But Dana wants for sure things knows that guys are gonna be he can count on.

I think he's gonna fight at the White House he I think he's gonna fight at the White House. He has to. He has to fight at the White House.

Aspinal?

Joe, I mean, I don't know why he won't fight this dude. I said this the other day, if I was still fighting, I'd have fought Tom Aspinal already. I just would have did it. The bigger the challenge, the better. Go prove yourself

But I don't know why he'll do it But yeah, he might have to fight Tom Aspinall like you said Dana's gonna make him fight Tom

What I mean how much money would they need for DC to come out of retirement the White House?

Yeah, I can't enough. They got 20 million for you still not doing shit Yeah, I can't train. I can't train. I go, dude, I'm doing CrossFit. I do a little. I was just today practicing how I'm going to do sumo deadlifts. I'm like, I'm doing sumo deadlifts. I'm like, I'm just getting excited to go

do my sumo deadlifts. Jay, I can't fight because I can't. I can't. Was I was sparring the other day I started I started a team okay of guys that I'm training helping career their careers I was sparring One of them punched me in my rib with a straight right hand boom right here dude

It was the most painful shot. I taken my rib come out Right my rib come up. I'm in pain Shannon. I can't get off my couch. I'm just like oh Every time I get off my couch. I'm just like, oh. Every time I get off my couch I'm rolling to my knees to then push up because I can't squeeze my core. Every time I squeeze my core it hurts. I go take a nap. I'm just sleeping I guess because I'm sleeping rolling. I sleep, I roll over the top of it, pop it back in place. But I'm like I couldn't do this every day like I used to I always had separated ribs or black eyes

I I just couldn't do that anyways took this this life is too comfortable what I do now, right? You make good living you only go big punch kick. I don't want to fight no more man Plus like come on go put some pads on go tackle somebody The pain is too great. Yeah, I think that's what people take for granted. Like how great the pain is that we endure to do what we did.

Right.

It sucks.

I mean, before I got my hips replaced, DC, I just thought the pain that I was in was normal because I had dealt with it for so long.

Yeah.

And you get to, and you're like, okay, this is my new normal. And then the doctor says, no, you don't have to live like that.

How much better does it feel?

A thousand. Really? I mean, there was no position that I could get in that was comfortable. If I lay down, it hurt. If I stood, if it hurt. It walked, it hurt.

Sitting hurt. Standing too long didn't hurt. That's bad. I don't have that.

Thank God I don't have that. Yeah. Because that shit seems so big. It is.

What about Conor McGregor at the White House?

Okay, man. It's over.

It's over for him.

It's over, dog.

Man, this dude, Conor McGregor, he is tripping. Conor McGregor's tripping.

He made too much money, huh?

He made way too much. He went from plumbing to making, he sold that liquor for what, 500 million? Yeah.

It's too much. Right, he got 100 million for fighting Floyd.

He got 100 million for fighting Floyd. Then he was doing pay-per-views. These dudes, he made too much money. Conor says he wants to fight all the time. And everybody kinda, they jump to it. But it's like, he wants to stay relevant. He wants to stay in the news. He wants to stay, he wants the notoriety

of being Conor McGregor without having to be Conor McGregor. And that kinda sucks because when he was the man, I bet you tapped in oh yeah you tapped into the UFC more because he could because he could sell a fight he could sell a fight he could sell it but yeah I mean him and could be was the best did you think he was just one dimensional and that's why

he was good he was very good but when they got him on the ground DC he couldn't get up they couldn't get him on the ground yeah they did Khabib got him on the ground, DC, he couldn't get up. They couldn't get him on the ground. Yeah, they did. Khabib got him on the ground. That Khabib was a different person, though.

Like, him and Khabib really didn't like each other. That's per, you know, sometimes you're like, oh, we just selling the fight. But it seemed that it was a little more to it. He genuinely did not like her. He hates, he won't say his name still today. He still does not say his name. Because of what he said about his religion, about his dad.

He still won't say his name. Last week he did an interview in New York. He says this guy, he'll never say his name. He hates him. Dude, they're in the octagon, it kind of goes, he whispers after the third round after Khabib's be, it's just business, because no it ain't. No it ain't. You don't mess with them dudes, man.

Them Russian dudes different.

And then when he had him, the ref had to do a little bit extra, DC, you saw that, DC. He was going to kill him. He wasn't going to let him go.

He was going to put him to sleep, Shannon. He was holding him, and he said, I kicked your ass. I kicked your ass and he kind of was like then he jumped over the fence. Yes and try to be this team He's like I was like whoa, but dude he had him he was not going to let him go Because he felt so his family got so disrespected By this dude that he wanted to end him

And and honestly, sometimes you bite off more than you can chew. Yeah, because he's kind of got beat bad that night He did he got beat bad that night. He did. He got beat bad.

I mean, but here's the thing that shocked a lot of people.

But Connor made Khabib. He really did make Khabib the biggest, a bigger star. Yeah. Like we talked about, me and Jones. Khabib went from, I think he had two or three million followers on Instagram, the next morning, 10 million.

Wow. After that fight and all that happened, 10 million. Crazy, seven million a night? That's a big jump.

You think Khabib would come out of retirement?

Khabib told me, we did a thing a while back where Khabib said they offered him $40 million to fight and he said no, he ain't coming back. If they offered him 40 million and he hasn't come back yet, he ain't coming back of it. If they offered him 40 million, he hasn't come back yet. He ain't coming back. No, no.

He's in Dagestan. I bet in Dagestan you can make a million dollars and be good for the rest of your life. Yeah. Right? In that place.

Well, if they offered Khabib 40 million,

what'd they offer John Jones to fight Aspinall? John said he wanted 30 and I think they got the money they got 30 for me he said no They got 30 for me he said hey, let me tell you something. I just told you I'm barbecue meat 30 I'm gonna tell you don't hurt me shit. I might test positive after it's over

What is it about what is about Dagestan that the guys that are, they can wrestle. Now, look, I've seen somebody follow somebody like those wrestlers, wrestlers.

Yeah.

They really, I'm talking about those guys that go to the Olympics, that's a whole different level of

wrestling.

Yeah, they're dudes.

How did they get so good? They just, so over there, they put them in wrestling, they put them in both styles, then at like five, six years old, they identify where a kid's gonna be better, and that's all they do, all the way up through school. Khabib and Islam started doing Sambo

when they were super young, together, right, with his dad. So their whole life, they did combat Sambo. Combat Sambo was actually like Guitars, punching, grappling, like they were essentially doing MMA as like kids. And then just keep getting better. I think for my son, right, to have the mentality that I have or had, it's impossible. His life's too comfortable.

Yeah, okay.

His life's too comfortable. You and your brother and to your children, they can't even make themselves think like you did growing up where you grew up and how you grew up. Right. So it's like, they all live like that.

Because while Khabib, I want to see Khabib's son and then the next Islam's son. Then we could see if how it does over there. Because for them, it was the way to live and change all of their lives. Just like us. Right. It's like, yes, we're almost like desperate. So one of my kids like playing football and he's like, I wanna do this and I wanna do this. I go, well, you gotta be at every practice.

You gotta go with your individual coach. Like you gotta go on Sunday whenever you go do all your speed and agility. You have to get up early in the morning to lift weights. I go, because while you are living where you live and how you live there's a kid like me That's doing the same thing But without the fallback of what my dad did to make sure that I'm okay when all this is done, right?

So I don't know that we can how does Christian McCaffrey? Developed the mentality that his father had unless his father came on a home from oh, you know, Ed Maybe he had a whole bunch of money, but I don't know, how does he develop that mentality?

I'm a firm believer when I look at the Mannings.

Yep, them.

Archie Manning and Peyton and Eli.

They just teach him.

Yeah.

I mean, it's something special for your dad to have and says, nah, I want to get it. See, I still have a healthy respect for Bronte because he's still, you know, he, the likelihood of you having a historically or transcendent great parent and then the child be equally as transcendent and great. It's just not going to happen. It's great. Ken Griffey, Crane Griffey senior was a good baseball player, but he wasn't junior.

No, he wasn't. Bobby Barnes was an unbelievable player. He wasn't Barry. No. No. And so to ask, Kareem had some, Magic got some, to ask their son, their prodding to be just what you're, it ain't happening. So for the dad, for Ken Griffey Jr. and Barry, their dads were good. Yes. They just weren't them. They weren't them. So the second one was better. Yes. But to ask the next one to be better than the one that's the greatest?

Just imagine Barry Bonds' son being Barry Bonds or better. No. It's like Vladimir Guerrero. He was really good, but his son now is with the same name. With the same name, better than his dad. That's crazy. So for him to have another one that does that

will be very hard. But like, so, where's Peyton's son? Where's Eli's son? Peyton said his son went to his camp a couple weeks ago. I saw that. Yes.

But is he... It's gonna be, I mean, come on.

It's gonna be hard.

Yes. Tom has a son.

Yep. But you, but here's the thing. But Archie is Cooper's other son. Yeah, is the other son. Right.

So just imagine Tom Brady's son, Benjamin, being as good as Tom. God ain't fit to bless you like that, bro, I'm sorry. He ain't fit to bless you like that.

I don't think so, man.

It's hard.

Yes. But even for LeBron James Jr.

Yes.

LeBron James Jr. to be in the NBA, it's nuts. And then to have another one that's supposed to be even better than the other one.

But to expect him, and I think the thing is sometimes-

LeBron's done everything right.

Yes. But to expect them, and I think the thing is... LeBron's done everything right. Yes, but to expect a child to be LeBron or Kareem's son to be him or Magic's son to be him,

come on, bro, that's not gonna happen. LeBron James Jr., if he can stay in the league for 10 years, that to me would be astounding. Because, and he will, he will. Yes. But to be in there 10 years after what your dad did, with all that pressure, from the moment he picked up a basketball, there was pressure on him.

Because the expectation you got to be, because everybody knows who your dad is.

My son would wrestle and I would see people, my kid just beat DC's son. I'm like, but that ain't DC. It's not, you didn't beat me, right?

I just beat DC's boy. I had Kim Griffey Jr. on. And when his son Trey was coming up, he played baseball. And the people in the stand would say, he ain't his dad. And his dad would say, name five people who are.

Ooh. Ooh.

Hey.

Ooh.

I like that. So what would they say then?

They couldn't say anything. I mean, you know, he was an MVP.

I mean, he did everything.

Yes. He's one of the greatest. He's one of the greatest players. I mean, the sweetest swing ever.

Sixth on the home. Come on. He ain't going to be him.

No.

It's OK. But the kid has to Accept that yeah, that is okay and a lot of people you you're having a we were having a conversation about my brother. I Embraced it see I never lived in the shadow. I embraced it every number he had I got the exact same number He was three in high school. I was three in high school. He was two in college. I was two in college

He was 84 I was 84 every car that he had I got so I never looked at life And when people told me I mean you're not gonna be like your brother like watch watch me watch But not many people have that yeah Yeah, they have that dog in them like that like there's there's a dog about that mentality that most people don't have yes Especially kids especially a kid that wakes up, and he's sleeping in a beautiful home With everything he'd ever want in his life. It's hard for that kid to go, my kid gets up in the morning at 6.30, three days a week

and he lifts weights. My kid does wrestling practice at 2 o'clock in the afternoon, then he goes to football practice at 5.30 in the afternoon. He does that four days a week. Then on Sundays he meets with his private coach to do football training, where he does speed and agility, he catches passes, he goes through his coverages and his reads.

For me, that's my son going, Dad, I want to try to do something great. I say, Pop, if it works, awesome. If it doesn't, you gave yourself a chance. That's it. You took advantage of every Opportunity you had everything that we have accrued you used to try to better yourself Right if it works great if it doesn't you never skipped out on the work, right? That's all I care about and I'm fine with that and maybe it does maybe it doesn't but he's given himself a chance

Even though he doesn't have to right. That's what I love good I'm asking how did you and could be become such great fans? That's my boy right there, man He walked into the gym. He walked into the gym by himself King Mo the wall Brought him from New Jersey

He wanted to come and train with all the wrestlers. Barely spoke a lick of English, walked in the gym, stayed at Extended Stay America, right up the street from AKA, and he would walk back and forth by himself from the hotel to the practice.

And on his first day I was like, oh, a little Russian kid, because I spent a lot of time there when I was wrestling. We started kind of talking a little bit and it just, it grew. And then I just understand how much of a,

he's like a really good human being. He's a good person, real strong values, and he's the best. I think he's the best fighter ever. Really? I do, yeah, I do.

I saw a kid that came in there with limited striking. He told you exactly what he was going to do every single time, and he did it. He was beating Michael Johnson up one time telling him, brother, you know I deserve a title fight. You need to give up. That's how dominant he was.

And you sat in the pocket with Conor and knocked Conor down.

Knocked him down. After Conor had boxed Floyd Mayweather for nine rounds. He stood with him and knocked him down. Yeah, I think he's the best, man. I think he's, he just stands for something so much bigger than just fighting.

And I think he, I think he, I think he, obviously he elevates the people around him, which is very important. But he also is like a, he's like a guiding light for a lot of people that follow him, and he does things the right way.

There's this viral clip going around that he refuses to shake this lady's hand out of respect for his wife.

Yep, and for his religion. And if you know his religion, that's the way it is.

That's the way it is.

But not many men are willing to do that, especially in that moment. Right. Right? Kate Scott. Kate Scott.

She's a great analyst. Yes. But I think the reason it got so odd was because that kid reacted the way that he did. There was a YouTube kid that was up there with him, and he kind of was like, oh my God, like speed. I show speed. The way he acted was like, because he shook everyone's hand, but then he just politely

said, and then I'm pretty sure he explained it to her afterwards. But again, it's live TV, right? Things happen. But that's respect to his wife. Honestly, respect to Kate. It's actually a respectful gesture to the person.

You're refusing to shake hands because he has a married man should not shake the hand of another woman Wow

What separate Russian fighters from American fighters I

don't think that I don't think that I don't think that is much more to it than just the the That that need to change their lives, right? Their need, I mean, even, I'm not talking homeless.

Like, I'm not talking like transient people that are living on the street. But even our upbringing, even mine, where I lived in a small house after small house when I was younger, then my parents did all they could to move us into a big house to where they bought their first house for $10,000.

It wasn't a great house, but it was theirs. That's still better than what they have over there. It's all concrete concrete just concrete stuff So yeah It's like I think it's just that mentality of need to get better That it makes the allows for those guys to to kind of just elevate themselves a little more because even My upbringing and I thought that I had it tough Mm-hmm was better than what they have there and you know what we people are willing to do to change their lives for sure

Yeah You and Connor went back and forth on social media You know what we people are willing to do to change their lives for sure. Yeah You and Connor went back and forth on social media

But you said it's over for Connor I mean the money the money that he made from Floyd the money that he's made off his alcohol the money that he that he's Making now to go back into I mean you're worth 300 million dollars to go in there and it's like, you know What I want to get kicked in my face, hit in my face, elbowed in my face, need.

Yeah, there's no need there. He doesn't need that. He doesn't need this anymore. Marvin Hatton would have said, it's hard to get up in the morning when you're sleeping on satin sheets, right?

Way back in the world that are untrue. Yeah. That was. Right. Like, you know that one where it's like, to be the champion, you got to defend the belt? Yeah. That's bullshit.

Ric Flair started that.

Yeah.

To be the man, you got to beat the man.

Yeah, Ric Flair started that, man.

That's not true. I'll beat the man that beat the man.

Yeah. But fighters have actually believed that. Conor, it's the, and he's one of the biggest superstars in the world. He can't walk into any room without everybody knowing who he is. So the access he has, how's he gonna look past all of that to go into a training camp to fight?

Especially if he wants to do it right.

Francis Ngannou, he was in the UFC, he left, seems to be there's some speculation that he might be wanting to come back. There was this talk about Francis fighting John. Would you like to see that fight?

I would have. I would have.

Not now.

I would now still. Back then I wanted to because Francis in his last fight against Cyril, his wrestling looked better. But I do believe that if he fought John, that's a more serviceable fight for John because John can wrestle. Yes. And he probably would just take Francis down. Yeah. You don't want to stay toe to toe with it. No. And do you remember when he would elbow people in the back in the day? Like he just I think Francis would have to knock him out but Francis could knock people out man I've never seen anybody

hit harder than Francis. Yeah he got power. He's got the most power I've ever seen in my life. He be knocking dudes out. He hit Alistair Overeem in his head the back of his head touched between his shoulders. He hit him with an uppercut. The back of his head touched between his shoulders as he was falling down. I've never seen anything like it

But Francis box because okay he uh Tyson Fury and it gave him some confidence and then he ended up fighting ash Anthony Joshua got knocked out, but he made some money I mean, yep

He's the only one that's actually done that and it worked worked out, because he was a heavyweight champ. Right. And Shannon, he looks like the heavyweight champ. Yeah. When he became the champ, and I was like, okay, look at him. Now you look like you're looking at the baddest man on the planet.

Yes, absolutely.

You're looking like this dude, Francine Gunn, who looks like he can walk into any place, I ain't messing with you. And he had it. So when he moved over, it worked. He was the heavyweight champ. But shit, he dropped Tyson Fury. Remember, he knocked him out. I thought it was over.

Man, I exploded out of my chair. But then Anthony Joshua beat him bad. And you saw when Joshua dropped him, the difference in a boxer and a guy that, because Francis was like this. he needed to grab him. He got flatlined.

And the thing is that boxers understand how to faint.

Yep. And when he gave him that faint, when he gave him that faint, Francis went, boom. I was like, oh my God.

And a boxer throwing a punch in the MMA, look, I understand that they both hit hard, but boxers, it's just something about that punch and where it's coming from. I mean, it's...

Shannon, I went training one time in Oakland when I first started, boxing gym. They hit you with a jab, and it's like, what the hell was that?

Yeah.

Because they know how to punch. Yeah. And they sit on everything.

Yeah.

Boom.

Boom.

It's not jab, jab, touch, try to take it out.

Yeah, yeah.

I'm just mad in there, getting my ass whooped. I'm like, if I want, I can beat everybody up in here. They're like, I'm going to start wrestling every one of you fools. Because the dude's just putting it on you. They just putting it on you. Because there's nothing you can do.

Why do you fight Brock Lesnar?

The WWE got him. The WWE took him back. That was my golden goose, man. We had that moment in the ring. I pushed him, he pushed me. WWE paid him back.

They were paying Brock like six, seven million a year, maybe 10. Right. Right you telling me Brock you can go fight DC and lose Are you gonna lose I'm being Brock Lesnar man. I was being brought up a big dude man So now don't matter though. Shea. I was being brought Lesnar. It was one of the safest fights I could have had I'm telling you though. There's the truth. It's just the truth. I like Brock to you like he's a great guy, but I Watch what came did to him.

I watched how he would react to getting punched. And I wasn't gonna punch him. He would have to take me down to win the fight and I can wrestle.

Yeah, but he's not a wrestler. I mean, he was a wrestler.

Yeah, he was. But if he shoots on me, I'm up to my feet, then you're done. That's what happened with Kane. He took Kane down. Kane got up, started kneeing him in his face. I saw Brock recently, he still has that scar on his eye

from when Kane kneed him in the face. Still got that big scar on his eye.

Damn.

It's crazy. It's crazy. Tell us you I got like offers back then But I had bad grades and I just was not going to college to play football, right? It was hard to It was hard for me in the school that I was in to First off there's way too much pressure on football down there in Louisiana. Yeah, it's bad. Yeah And we weren't very good. But I mean I I was the all-state MVP defensively. I was

pretty much Mr. Everything in football because I was a good little linebacker. But I was small. And they were talking about me playing quarterback or three safe, strong safety. I was like, I'm supposed to chase, I'm going to chase Randy Moss. I mean, you know, so like, I'm not smart. Right. I didn't really know the difference between strong safety is more like a linebacker.

Yes, yeah, not in the box. But I was thinking I'm gonna be chasing dudes like Randy Moss. Right. Because he was graduating the same year. I was like, there's no way.

Nah, I'm good.

Yeah, I was like, I'm gonna offer to go play football. You was in Herschel Walker's corner, MMA.

Yes.

Could Herschel have made a career out of that? Or he did what he was supposed to do, have one fight and move it along?

Shannon, I gotta tell you, man. Is he, was he really the great, he was one of the greatest athletes, wasn't he?

Yeah, he was, yeah.

Shannon, this man was so strong. But I don't think I've ever seen anybody like, he was very stiff.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He had no flexibility.

Oh, he was? Even in football?

Yeah, he was stiff.

Yeah.

Bro, he was so stiff. But when he hit you, oh, and then, she, he would like move his feet. He would move his feet, but they never left the ground Never loved the ground bro. The hearse will be walking towards you like this So when this man would hit you sometime he shocked you you're not here on your feet. Yeah Sometimes hurtful shocking dudes Hey anywhere in the back. I

swear to God was the most Herschel Walker is a different individual. Hershel Walker has had some stuff in his life where it's like his anger. But if you meet him, you've met him for sure.

Yeah, for sure.

He is the nicest person. We were all broke back in the day. Hershel was staying at the Intercontinental, or what was the name of that hotel? Downtown San Jose? No, but it was called something else before. It was a nice one, but

Herschel owned a chicken company. You know Herschel owned that chicken company?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

One of the biggest ones in the country.

Yes, he does.

But because of that, they serviced that restaurant down there. I still got free rooms at this beautiful hotel downtown San Jose. He would feed us all. But he wouldn't eat. He would eat one time a day, bro. He would eat soup and bread and some eggs. So I'm like, yo, this is the nicest guy ever. Multi-millionaire, rich, nice, football Hall of Famer. We got at the ring or in the hallway to walk

and bro, something flipped on him. I said, this dude is dark. I was like, this is a dark son of a gun, bro. He started talking to himself, talking about, I'm gonna kill this motherfucker.

Damn, dude, you all right.

Talking about killing this dude.

Wow.

To get himself there. Right. He went there. I was like, yo, I've heard people like talk to themselves to hype himself up Herschel was on a whole nother level. It was the most intense thing

I've ever seen in my life and he went out there anyone Wow, he was for he was over 40 Yeah, he was over 40 retired from football for many many years Went in there did his thing and one of us I want to fight in strike force Which at the time was the second biggest organization of all time. But bro, to see him go to that place, Shannon?

Yeah.

You'd be like, yo, this dude is crazy. I look back at the other dudes, I was like, are y'all seeing this? Everybody acting normal. Hershey's talking about killing mofos. Hershey's talking about killing people.

Did you ever think about doing WWE? So I thought about it right after I was wrestling, but then it's hard. People talk about that stuff being fake. Amen, it's scripted. Yeah, but it ain't fake. It hurts.

Oh, those firearms hurt, you called it.

Oh, because you gotta throw your arms back. So every time it's like slapping against the ring, or when you run the ropes, those ropes, they burn you. Like, it's hard, man. And that's why you see them all break down like that. Like, they're all like, they're all like messed up.

Like, their knees don't work. They're like football players to us. Y'all got it hard. Football's hard, man. The wear and tear on the body is crazy. And so is MMA and wrestling.

I'm one of the lucky ones. I feel like I got out pretty clean, right?

Derek Lewis yeah, and baggies, bro

He coming there to do one thing you already know he ain't trying to take you down

He's trying to kick you he tried to knee you try to elbow you John knock you out He tried to knock you out the knockout kick. That's it. He got more knockouts than anybody in the history of the UFC. He hits hard. I fought him. He hits hard. When he hit me, I was holding his leg up. Yeah. And he just kind of went like this, and it skimmed down my eye.

Next day I woke up with a big old black eye. Wow. He kicked me. I had knots all in my forearms. He was oh, but he knocks these dudes out man. He knows exactly a yo, did you see him a couple weeks ago? Mm-hmm. Did you see his poor wife in there, man?

She was in there so embarrassed the camera pans to her. Yeah, I'm in there interviewing this man I'm like, I'm like're about to see some crazy stuff. And I go, who do you want to fight next? Like, what do you want next? He looks over at his wife like that. Gonna be a lot of ground and pound going.

I was like, boy. And she got to stand there and try to stay composed. Knowing that Derek's out of his mind. I did yeah, it couldn't wrestle. It was why I fought him. They called me three weeks before the fight to to fight him Right and you like sure? Yeah, easy money. Yeah, I knew I knew he couldn't wrestle so I Knew it is his uh his cardio and if I can extend him he would get tired, right?

But yeah, just if you couldn't wrestle like I was fighting you Yeah, but you gotta go I mean you got to get past those three rounds because you let him get you in the first round. Yeah, he hit you and knock you out. Yeah, he got you. But I just shot on him right away.

Right.

Right, because he was so inexperienced with his wrestling that I like backed him up and just grabbed his leg. Right. That's one thing I learned fighting the heavier guys. Yeah. People just kind of move around until they fell down. Wow. Learn something new. Who's the hardest puncher?

What's the hardest punch you've taken? Who hit you the hardest? Probably Dan Henderson. That little dude. He was like, he was made of concrete. Hendo.

He hit so hard. He hit me. He was on his back and he hit me and he knocked out one of my bottom teeth.

I had to go to like an emergency dentist. and he hit me and he knocked out one of my bottom teeth.

I had to go to like an emergency dentist. Damn. On Labor Day, a Memorial Day, after he hit me from the bottom. He hit hard. Even from in close, he would just.

And it was just crazy.

Obviously there are things that you can't do, but are there dirty things that God, you know, you're not supposed to eye gouge somebody. And you're not, obviously you can't do, but are there dirty things that guys, you know, you're not supposed to eye gouge somebody. And you're not, obviously you can't bite, you can't do certain things, but are there certain things that guys do

that the ref can't see?

I always had a trick where when I would get on top of them, I would always cover their mouth. I would literally try to smother them. Damn, DC. Yeah, I know, nasty. Dirty. Josh Bournette, that's not dirty, it's like I'm just trying to like, Josh Bournette would like always like kinda,

if you let him go behind you, his hand was going like. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, them dudes, they try, do his life, they trying to, his life or death out there, Shannon.

His life or death, he's like, I saw, hey, I fought Josh Barnett. I was trying to take him down, he was elbowing me. Boom, boom, cut me wide open here. First fight I'd ever had a black guy, he kneed me in the eye. Cut my head open. When I was a kid, I was playing football

with the older kids, one dude clotheslined me, broke my collarbone. Yeah, it was bad, it was hard. I walked to my mama house, cause I'm trying to be tough, right? I'm a young kid, I can't cry. So that's all my mom, I fall on the ground.

They put me in a cast, broken collarbone. I fought Josh Barnett. My mom passed in 2022. When I fought Josh Barnett, I had won my first big world title, Strikeforce. I was bloodied, man.

My eye was open, everything. They put stitches for the first time. I walked into the hotel, and I'm good, taking pictures, everybody, oh, champ. The moment I saw my mama, I started crying like a baby. I felt, I'm in her lap like a seven-year-old kid again.

Please make me feel better. That's how nasty he was in there, dude. He was elbowing me, he was grabbing me, he was doing everything he could to just inflict pain on me. He does that, Jones does that.

Certain guys, just no matter where you are, they're just trying to hurt you. Right. And that's a, yeah. But you gotta be so well-rounded to do this thing now. If you aren't, look at Ilya Teporia. He's a monster.

He's a monster. He's one of the best fighters of all time and he's only fought eight times in the UFC. Wow. These guys are amazing.

What does it feel like to knock someone out? What does it feel like to get knocked out? Because you were, and I know exactly what you're saying, because I've been knocked out and I can't remember anything. I don't remember driving to the stadium. I don't remember what I had to eat. I don't remember anything. I just remember looking up at the scoreboard and asking my teammate, Rod Smith, I was like, we called him Foots, I said, Foots, how we get the lead? Because I don't, I don't, I don't.

I don't want to laugh.

No, no, but I'm like, how do we, because I just remember like we were losing before this happened and now it's the fourth quarter and I'm like, what happens if we win this game? He said, Boo, we go to the Super Bowl. I was like, yeah, yeah, we go to the Super Bowl. But it's a funny feeling to get knocked out

because you really don't remember anything.

Hey, my coach told me, this is bad. I'm laughing because my coach told me, was that the last time you asked? You probably asked him again. No, no, that was, I was like. No, you probably asked him again I started out like I started jumping up and down on salad

so we over 14 with like three minutes to go and we got the ball so this dude so I get knocked out right that was John when he kicked you John kick me and he hit with the follow-up shots right only time I knocked out I'm crying right yeah I go to my corner I asked my coach coach, I said, what happened? He tells me. I break down crying.

Right? Rogan interviews me as we're walking out the octagon. I look to him and I go, hey, what happened? He tells me. I break down crying. He told me I did that seven times.

He had to keep explaining it to me. And then every time he explained it, I would have the exact same reaction. Like it was the first time I heard that shit, man. That's bad. Yo, Jenna, that's bad.

He said he told me seven times. And then I'm in the ambulance because they're trying to get me in the ambulance, I'm refusing. Finally, I get in the ambulance and I wake up. And I was present like nothing had happened. I was like, I lost.

They're like, yeah, you lost.

I was like, God damn it. I swear to God, I woke up in the ambulance and realized like, I lost.

Did you not, because obviously,

so how did he set the head kick up? It was beautiful. It was beautiful beautiful man. It was beautiful. He kept body-kicking me That's what he did in the first fight you and I kept check I kept blocking I kept blocking But then in the second round I was fighting good first round real good second round real good So now I'm feeling good because I feel great. My cardio is great. Third round, but the whole time he's just kicking me in the body.

Third time he tries to kick me in the head and the third round was the first, one of the first attempts and I was like, nah. Nah. But then he actually gave me one that looked like he was going to the body.

And so I did this and, you're supposed to lean, right? You're supposed to lean. You're supposed to kind of lean to kind of take some of the impact off. But when I lean, he was not going low. He was going high. Boom, right on the side of the head.

So then I started doing the chicken dance, right? Like you know when your legs kind of go. And this is where, and this is why I can't stand this dude. Because somebody else that's not as good would have let me off the hook. Because I was still there. And again, that's me.

Football, neck, big neck, short neck. Most people just fall down from a head kick like that. I was still there. So I'm like doing this thing, running away from him. He kicks my leg to spin me.

Yes, I remember. So he kicks my leg to spin me. Yes, I remember.

So he kicks my leg.

Kick your leg out from under.

Yeah, so I spin. Yep. It's like that shit you put the kids where they go serve, serve, serve.

Yeah, to get drunk.

Then you don't know where you're at. Right. When I did that, I fell. And that was it. I couldn't, my body was gone. Right. I might have been able to grab him. I might have been able to hold him. I might have shot. I would have done something.

But because he's such a great finisher, he kicks my leg out from under me. So then I spin, and when I spin, I'm like seeing all these lights, and all of a sudden your body starts falling. It was like a kid trying to hit a pinata.

It was crazy, man. Then I fall on my stomach of all times in my world to fall on my stomach like fall on your back to where you could see him coming maybe get my feet up to try to block him right but instead I fell on my stomach and he jumped on me started started finishing and I know this from watching it right so so you watch it so you watch when you lost that fight you watched it over now for a long time I didn't watch the fight. I But it's on highlights and stuff. Yeah, you have seen on shield us from the if you lost

If you lost you gonna see yourself getting beat at some point, right? That's why we didn't steep a thought it was the worst the whole week. I'm just out there I was like damn did I ever want to fight? I'm just getting beat the whole time, right? It was terrible I mean that I mean you like you said I mean his toolbox Yeah, the way he can finish a fight with an elbow he could submit you elbow me bad And then that that back that spinning that spinning back. He got he called steep a perfect

Poor steep a man and he doesn't telegraph it well the bond the heavyweights a boxing or wrestling They're not doing all that. You could tell right away when he'd knee Stipe, Stipe was like, what is this?

Yeah, what?

They're kneeing now? Normally a guy's trying to either take me out on a box with me, maybe a couple leg kicks here and there. John was hitting him with all kinds of stuff. John hit him with knees, elbows, spinning kicks. When he hit him with that spinning kick, Stipe, you could tell, Stipe looked like a guy that hadn't fought for three and a half years and was 42.

He looked, he just turned on you. I was like, oh, John got him. But he is very good at setting everything up. That's why he didn't have to cheat. He did not have to cheat. That's where my biggest issue is.

You don't need to cheat. You got all that. Use what you have. He always get mad at me. He gonna be on me now if it is. I live, I live. The other day he said he live rent free in my house,

in my brain or something. I'm like man, shut up.

I don't care about you.

Obviously you were there. When Anderson Silva, was that Rockhold or was that? Chael Sonnen. No, when he checked him.

Oh, that was Chris Weidman. Weidman. Weidman. Had you ever seen that before? Because it happened again, another fighter got checked. Chris Weidman checked Anderson and broke his leg.

Then Chris Weidman kicked somebody's broke his leg. Yeah. Then Chris Weidman kicked somebody else's and he broke his leg. With a rocker? Weidman kicked a guy named Uriah Hall, broke his leg. So the same thing that happened to Anderson, Chris did to himself.

I can't watch it. Did you watch it?

I watched it.

Can you actually watch the, I can't, it looked like the time. But all those replays, I was like, Joe, how'd it look? Because when you see it, you're like, damn, that look.

And then he like, he tried to, you know, you try to put, you know, try to balance yourself, like damn look like his leg yes dude I have to ask Rogan and Anik I'm like I'm like did it break did it break did it break they're like oh it broke it was like do not watch it that was a throw up I mean cuz you guys know how to check because it's called you know you check you'd like you check the kick yeah you put you either lean into it or you pick your uh you pick your your knee up right and what they were doing were kicking on the inside. That's why when you kick on the inside,

they just turn their knee in. If you kick too hard, man, you break your leg. That's why I don't kick too much. Hey, that's why I was out there boxing, just like everybody else.

What's the worst injury you sustained in a fight?

In a fight, just more damage like facial stuff, like black eye, cut face. I never got hurt really bad in fights, but in training, ribs, torn ACL, torn ACL, ribs. I tore some sort of a ... There's this ligament in my shin one time,, broken hand, like I couldn't punch. I didn't know how to punch. Remember this idea that Floyd had like, broken hand?

Yes. That was me. Like, I broke my hand five times when I started fighting. Wow. Every time I would land right, I would break my hand. So then I have a doctor, Carl Stidham,

he did a great job with this and it never broke again. He put a plate with like eight screws because it just kept breaking. But when knocking someone out, you don't feel nothing. You literally don't feel anything. If you knock them out with a punch,

sometimes you feel and it's like that loud impact. When you land the right way, sometimes, it's like you don't even punch him. It's like you go right through him.

But you know it.

Well, they fall. They fall. When I hit Stipe with that one that put him down to become the double champ, I had thrown that punch so many times and it just so happened to hit him and he went down.

I didn't even feel nothing.

Yeah, like when Usman caught the dude.

George Nasrudow.

Yeah, Jose Nasrudow, yeah. When he caught him with...

His chin went all the way up.

I was like, oh my goodness.

Nasrudow was mad at me one time because of this shit. I was on NFL Live and I said, when the mug, when he, You called him the mug? Yeah, I put him in a concussion protocol. He gotta go in the tent because his chin

went all the way back there. Yeah. He went down bad. That was, Kamaru punched through him and he just crumbled. Yeah.

That was nasty.

Kamaru looked good coming back. Let me ask you this, when you saw Anderson Silva, he could box a little bit, but he fought Jake Paul.

See, I have a problem with all that. I don't know how you guys feel about the Jake Paul Anderson, the Jake Paul Mike Tyson.

I was wanting to see him fight boxers. Boxers that's his age.

Yes.

I don't think that's asking too much.

No, Mike Tyson. Yeah, Mike Tyson's what, 60? He beat up on Mike. Mike's 60, man. Right. Mike did make like 27 mil, so I get it, but 60 years old. Right. I want Jake Paul to fight guys that,

He said he wants to fight Canelo.

Canelo fights 154 or 160. That's one of his best weights. He'll fight heavier. He fought the guy at 175 and got beat. It's like, Jake weighs 210, 215. Yeah, so that means he'd be a heavyweight. Yeah, he's like a heavyweight. He said he wants to fight Anthony Joshua. If he fights Anthony Joshua, everybody's wish and dream of him getting finished

will come to fruition.

But I think the thing is, is that-

He's better now.

Yeah, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, he takes it serious. He can fight. You can appreciate that. You can tell that he spends time in the gym. You tell that he has serious coaches

and he's taking this craft serious.

He ain't just getting in there and people like, oh, he's just. He's a YouTuber. No, he ain't.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

So Jake Paul's a millionaire.

Yeah.

Jake Paul's not training at the local YMCA. No. He's got real coaches on salary.

He got real coaches.

He's got high level coaches. Yes. He's a boxer. You're not he's not that same kid That's why I keep telling those MMA guys every time they tell me I got a chance to fight Jake Paul, I'm like man don't do it because he boxed that's what he does a boxer You're not a box. No like my friend been asked. Yeah, then when for dimension and never fought him Yeah, no because he was gonna get been never could rest, he could never box. No. He's a wrestler. Tyron Woodley, I was so sad when Tyron Woodley

kept losing to him. I love T-Wood, man. And I was like, T-Wood, like.

Well, you don't see the butt that love. You don't see them punches, bro. You not, that's not what you do.

That's not what we do. He tried to mess with me for a while, until I went up to him in Orlando. I said, I don't play like these kids. I said, stop playing with me. His bodyguard said, I'm gonna slap you too. I said, I don't play like that man, don't leave me alone. I swear to God, I was at the commentary desk, I'm sitting there, he in the back making faces at me.

I took my headset off. I put it down. I got up, walked right to where he was in the stands. I pointed right at his face. I said, man, I don't play. Leave me alone. I said, I'm not gonna do children that you're messing around with.

I'm not gonna play with you. Leave me alone. His bodyguard, yeah, security can't even get me. Because you know, man, come on, we grown ups, man. I'm not playing.

Everybody don't play like that.

No, man, leave me alone, unless you really want to fight. John Jones, I respect because he fights me. But leave me alone, I'm not playing those childish games. Yeah, leave me alone. Do you think you see the guys in MMA going to fight go in the box for the money for the money. They do it for the money. They look man Can you blame them though? No, no, no

There's only a select few people that make the big money in the UFC. Correct. It's the God honest truth. I mean Champions make money. Yes, Lorenzo Fertitta was the best when the reason for Tito was there he would do these discretionary bonuses. Yeah where They would just give you money. Right. He had an idea of what he wanted the champion to make

and he would make sure you got it. Right. So when I fought John Jones, my contract was $85,000. I lost the first time. On Monday, Dana called me and goes, you did a great job.

We're gonna send you a check for a million dollars. What? Swear to God. 85 and then you got- He gave me a million dollars. They gave me a million dollars. Wow. A check for the first time ever made that, obviously, as a wrestler. It was the first time I'd ever made seven figures. They called me and said, you did a great job.

Here you go. Then I fought again a few months later and I had got a new contract. Right. 300,000 and then we sold a few hundred thousand pay-per-views and they called me and said, hey, we're going to give you X amount of dollars to get you back to a million dollars. They would do that, man. They were like ... Because that's what people don't understand.

I know they thought, well, these guys are underpaid, but it's like when you become a champion and then you're benefiting the business, they take care of you. But even the lowest boxers make are so low, bro. Like the lowest I've ever seen.

That makes it seem like everybody making Floyd Mayweather money.

Nope, they not.

And they're not. They are not all making that money, bro. They're making $1,000.

Right.

I mean, they make good, look but like you say but the good guys will make good money. Yeah, what does the guy make that so? Tank and all them dudes again paid right now. They're in the million Yeah, but they're they're the equivalent of the Iliad to Porya's right and the Israel out of Sonia's Yes, they're there those guys right but as you go down as You go down The card and you go down the pay scale,

I bet it's all pretty equivalent or very equal. So yeah, people talk like all boxers make money, they don't. You work for the company now in the commentary, but how's it negotiating with Dana as a fighter? Or did you negotiate with him?

You have managers. I have managers, but I was always really good about that. I would stand on what I believed. You know, one time he was like, that didn't happen. I was like, but it did, boss.

I was like, of course it did, boss. I said, we were negotiating my contract when I first came over and I wanted like a certain amount of money. Didn't want to do it. We were negotiating my contract when I first came over and I wanted like a certain amount of money. Didn't want to do it.

Dana was like kind of throwing a fit. Lorenzo goes, it's fine, we'll figure it out. And by the time I got to the airport, it was figured out. Right. Right, and he was like, that didn't happen. I was like, it did.

I was like, it's not a big deal because I understand you have window to happen. But then when I was retiring, right, Hunter Campbell, who now does a lot of the stuff with the guys, he calls my manager and he goes, so guys, what do you think, same as he made as champ plus pay-per-view?

Like, yeah. Even though I wasn't a champ, they still gave me the same pay I made as a champion and the pay-per-view. So it was like, I have nothing negative to say because I've had all great experiences.

You've had great experiences.

The worst experience I had was that. Right. When he said, I don't want to give you that. And I was like, well, okay. Then I'll just fight. And then I won't have a contract.

Right. And then we can negotiate after that. And they're like, uh-uh. We we ain't gonna let you get the Francis right we letting you get to undefeated right heavyweight or light heavyweight With no contract where other people can start going. Hey, we want you right right so then eventually I just resounded come

If Dana were to ever step down would you run the UFC?

That would be a dream job for anybody But of course I would love to do something if if they ever if they ever trusted me with that I would do the best job I ever could do because it's one of the greatest organizations in the world it's one of the biggest sports organizations in the world yep and they've done such a great job of building it that the job itself is just

don't don't fuck it up don't mess it up right cuz Dana does what he does is he's so passionate about it. He is. That I can't imagine the UFC without him. But if not, absolutely.

But Dana's staying on business now.

He's staying on business. You can be his best friend, he gonna get you. He gonna put you, he gonna walk you out the door I'm in the small pool right there. Yeah, hit me up. That's good. Let me get that. That's pretty good, man. It's great. I'm taking that bottle. You can take it.

That's coming with me. No, but we'll get your address. We'll send some to your dad.

My pops passed away, but.

Oh, my bad.

I'm sorry to hear that. It's okay. Yeah, I will drink it in his honor. I'm gonna do exactly like him. My pops will show home Yeah, my pops had them hard days man. Really my pops was working a hard way. Yeah, you say Louisiana He grew up hard grew hard and working outside. My dad used to show up Sitting that truck for two hours because he knew hard that work gotta come deal with us. Yeah

Yeah, he probably had a hip

Yes, he probably had to have a couple of drinks to come in the house. Yes, he did. Yes, he did.

Joe Rogan.

Yep. Now, I didn't know a whole lot about Joe Rogan. I just knew him as the guy that Fear Factor. So, I didn't know that.

He became Joe Rogan. Yeah.

Because I love Fear Factor, and then they just got too ridiculous with it. I mean, it was really good. The first couple of seasons was really, really good. And to see what he's turned into as a podcaster, but in the MMA, in UFC, he's your Howard Cosell.

Yes, yes, he's very good.

He's, I mean, he is very, very good.

I've never met a person that actually remembers more than Rogan. We go to dinner after the fights. Yeah. And he'll be talking about events at UFC 15, and I'm like, UFC 15?

Was that in 2004?

He just recalls.

We're at 300 now, you're talking about 15. He's like, I'm telling you, like, but his memory to recall all these things, I've never seen anything like it. But yeah, and and Shannon It says something when you do a job just for the love of doing the job when you don't have to do it, right?

Joe doesn't have to do you have no he don't With the Spotify thing that he has going on and everything and Dana said that when he first started doing he did it for free Yeah, he called if I he called if I for free to like and you know Then they worked it out something later But to just because he loved the sport so much and you know, he fights and obviously, you know, he you know He works at it and yeah, but he does an unbelievable job. He's tremendous man

I think he does a great job of calling the fights and I Think that he it you could tell his passion for it.

Yes.

In everything, I mean, you guys do so, you guys do like, I mean, hours and hours of TV a week. You gotta love this too. You do.

Or you can't do it.

No, you can't do it. Yeah, and you can feel it. I can see it in you too. I've watched you from afar. Yeah. And I've admired how well you've done and how you've really broke through the glass ceiling.

Because there was an idea of who you were supposed to be at Fox. And then eventually you said this idea, it doesn't work for me. And you became bigger than that idea. And now it's like, I'm so happy.

I don't really know you well, let's say I'm proud of you. But I'm happy for what you've done and what you've accomplished because you deserve it, man. But I'm happy for what you've done and what you've accomplished because you deserve it, man. Hard work deserves to get credit for it.

I appreciate that.

Yeah.

Let me ask you this. What have you most learned about money? Because growing up how you grew up, you know, living off 1,500 bucks a month and you got a $1,200 rent and then basically I gotta eat for the next 29 days I got to live off 150 bucks. Yeah now that you have you make decent money. Yep

What have you learned about it?

Money's hard to keep Money is very hard to keep that's what people don't understand Money is hard to keep you pay a lot pay a lot of taxes. You pay a lot of other things It just gives you an opportunity. I feel like money gives you the ability One you're going to be exactly who you ever wanted to be. So if a person's ugly because they have money, they always were ugly.

They just didn't have the ability to be ugly. You're going to be exactly who you want to be and you have access to more things than you ever have. And I also learned that because you have the ability to pay for stuff, most things are free. Isn't that the craziest?

People who have the most money, they get the most stuff for free. When you are living off that $1,500, you want something you gotta pay for it. But when you have the money that you have, and you can pay for it, everybody's like, could you please just take this?

And I just wanna see you have it, hold it. Shannon, could you just hold it? Right. And you're like, mm. Okay. And most times you're like, I'd rather pay for it instead of hold it for you. It's like, it's just that, but also just that it gives you a free, it's freedom.

It really is just freedom. It's a freedom to do things and take care of the people that you love more than anything. I bought my mom a house. Wow. That was one of my greatest accomplishments.

Yes.

To have her get a big house, right? And then my mom was a house cleaner whenever I was growing up. So she would take us to these people's houses, and while she worked, the people were beautiful. One family I still remember to this day, called the Lowe family in Louisiana, Lafayette. She'd go Monday and Wednesday there. They gave us a car. They gave us a brand new car.

Just this wonderful family of people. I made sure she had house cleaners when she was older. Wow. So instead of going to clean people's houses, like those are the things that I'm so proud of in my life and my career. That you were able to do for your mom.

To do for your mom. I mean, you know that. Yeah, of them.

Finding a mate, obviously wrestling, you know, ain't it like they come and look like they beat and die your door, say, oh yeah, I want to wrestle. Because it's not like, you know, you're not on television, it's a hard job,

it's a grimy job, your moodies some days are better than others. When you found a wife, how did you know?

I've had multiple.

Oh.

So, yeah, you can't really, I'm not the best in love.

You know what, and I tell, someone was telling me this the other day, they said, Shannon, the best and worst decision, when you made the best decision, did you know it was the best decision at the time? No. No. No. When you made the worst decision, did you know it was the worst decision at the time? No. No. You just

live with the decisions you make. That's all you can really do. But you, uh, part of being great is being selfish. You gotta be. And when you're so selfish, it's hard for relationships to work. Absolutely. And I think that is probably the thing that athletes need to worry about the most.

Because you've got to find somebody that understands.

Yes. And not many people do. They don't.

It's really hard. Everybody say they can be, oh, I understand. Everybody can be second until they actually have to be second.

Also until everybody can be second when they don't have. The moment there's a comfortability to life, it's like, wait a minute, everything that we hoped would happen has now happened. Now worry about, but it's not done yet. The job's never done.

No.

I feel like for high thinkers like you and myself, to just retire, could you imagine that as life? You'd die. A part of you would die. And so for me, it's like I need to be chasing career. I need to be chasing.

I gotta work. I'm a worker. Gotta work. It's what I was put on this earth to do. But that can be seen as selfish.

It is.

Yeah.

And but that's the only way you can become great.

It's the only way.

And greatness is not a sometime thing. It's an all the time thing.

It's an all the time thing. You don't get to be great just when you wanna be great in front of people. You gotta be willing to do that work behind closed doors. Yeah, but you don't never know anything.

Your biological father was shot and killed by his second wife's father in self-defense.

Dude.

You remember that?

Yeah. I remember, I remember watching Thanksgiving Day of 1986. We're at my aunt's house, Marjorie. We're all sitting down, we ate, we're all watching The Color Purple. And my mom getting a call, and she goes crazy, it was hysterical.

I was a seven-year-old kid, I had no idea what was going on. My, uh, then they told her, your dad's just been killed. Your, you know, your dad's just been killed. Your, you know, your son has just been killed. Your ex has been killed. She goes crazy.

She has to sit down now and tell me that. My older brother is 12 years older than me. Imagine a 19-year-old kid learning that his father's been killed. I'm at seven just crying because I don't have the greatest memories. I don't have the memories of my dad.

Like your brother does.

Like my brother does. But I also don't have like, Shannon, I can retain one real vivid memory of my father. And that was we were at a truck stop because he drove trucks. That's it. That's the only real vivid memory I have of my father. But my dad, Percy, had already moved into my life when I was three.

Right.

I'm four years into that relationship with my mother.

Right.

And it was just sad, man. I remember going to that funeral and I see my dad in that casket. He's got two families, right? Because while my mom is not with him anymore, they have kids.

Her reaction told me that she still loved your dad.

I don't think they ever fall out of love. It's like something that they don't really let go of, especially that first one. But my mom's sitting there with my dad, and let me tell you, the only way I knew my mom still loved my dad, one time, I don't there with my dad, and let me tell you, I knew my mom still loved my dad.

One time, I don't know if my dad, I don't quite understand if my dad was cheating, I don't know what it was, Shannon, but my mom took the car at a four-way stop. The other one was driving the other car. She hit her.

What?

She hit her. My mom was an angel. You better hold on. My mom was an angel.

Your mama play a bubble?

Audrey was an angel.

She play a bubble.

She play a bubble car, the real car though.

The cop said, why'd you hit her? She goes, that's my car too.

This my car? That's my car? I want to wreck him, I can wreck him. I said, oh my God. But it was at a little red light, it was a bump. Yeah, it wasn't like a hard hit, but she hit her. But yes, but yes, so yes, she must have still loved my dad. But yeah, it was awful.

You mentioned that your stepfather, Emmerveen, came in your life at a very young age.

Yes.

What did you learn from him?

Everything, everything. Percy Benoit was, man, he was the best. He was the best. He worked so hard. He made decisions, him and my mother, that made me appreciate them more than I don't know if I ever could appreciate anyone in my life.

When we were like seven, eight years old at that time when my dad got passed, they decided not to take government assistance anymore. We want to make it on our own. We were struggling, but they did. They took no help. They just made it on their own.

Then they bought their first house together. Then I watched that man get up in the morning and he would go and work for the city of Lafayette. It was hot, man. It was 95, 100 degrees, 100 degree humidity. You know what Louisiana's like. He would take the lime and make the baseball fields, cut the fields and the grass, and

he would come home at 5.30, eat real quick, and he would get a bath, because we didn't have a shower, jump in his truck and go to a pizza parlor and wash dishes to make an extra 60 bucks every time he did that. He did that constantly. Then when I got old enough, I realized more what he was doing. When the days that he wasn't going back to there, he was going to the cemetery and he was cutting it. He was weeding next to the graves to make more money.

When I got old enough, he started taking me with him. He's like, you get $35 a month. Every time you do this, I guess I made eight or $10. It would take us a little bit of time. I learned to work. He taught me to work. He taught me to work. And I think by him teaching me to work,

it has defined my life. It's defined my life. I don't, I was the captain of the Olympic wrestling team. And it's because I worked hard. They saw me.

They saw me and said, I want this guy to lead our team.

Is that the type of father you are? You got to be with Percy.

What's the you to your own? That's what I try to be for my kids. I try to be present and show them I'm working, man. I'm making a life for you guys that can be. And I hope that you see and appreciate what I'm doing. Right. Because while I don't see the struggle, they don't see the struggle that I saw, they do see that their dad is willing to just ... I took my daughters to a photo shoot I did for

Monster Energy the other day, and they were like, Dad, you work hard. I was like, I wanted to give you a ... just kind of see what dad does when he gets up at 5 a.m. and he's back home by 6 to make sure you guys have dinner. Right. Right? It's like those types of things, they mean the world to me.

My dad was the best.

You lost your daughter.

I did, man.

To an 18-wheel accident.

Yeah. That was the worst. That was the worst. I've had a lot of things happen in my life that I try not to let define me. Like I try not to let certain things define me, like the bad, but yeah, that was the worst.

I was 23 years old, I had a daughter named Kayden Emery. We were in college, or just finishing college, so her mom was from Killeen, Texas. And they were driving home to see her parents, but her car didn't have air conditioning. And she was like, I'm going to put my kid in the car with my friend because they have a newer car right And he got rear-ended by a t-wheeler. That was the worst man if she was with her mom

she would have been fine, but

You make these decisions at times that we think are the right decision and

It has killed her mom's life. I was you know what DC, I was about to ask you.

I bet she beat herself up. I should have just rolled the window down. She should have been with me.

Yeah, her mom's life is-

It hasn't been the same, has it?

No, that girl was on the track team at Oklahoma State when I went to school and she had such a big future and now it's like she's at home taking care of her mother. That losing that kid, losing our kid, it killed her. I was able to, I was able to spin it and say that every time I wrestle, every time I fight,

I have an angel sitting on the cage to watch over me. Her mom was never able to do that. It's sad, man. It's yeah. That was the worst thing that's ever happened in my life.

Because as parents, we expect our kids to bury us. We don't expect to bury a child.

Not that young, not that young, man. She's three and a half months old. So like to put her in a casket. Yeah, that shit sucks. Yeah. I even think just thinking about it, like it sucks. Even just thinking about it, it sucks.

Has it changed the relationship that you had with subsequent kids that you hold them tighter? That you realize just how fragile life is, that tomorrow is not promised. Even three hours from right now isn't promised.

No, I know. It's bad to the point that Shannon, at times you got to like ... I have to consciously try not to be as much of a helicopter parent. I'm trying to like ... Because I know how important it is for them to experience things, but it is scary. Like my son is getting older now. I just started, I let him ride his bike to the barber shop now to get a haircut.

That was something I could have never done. Like never.

My dog.

You talking about a bicycle or a motorbike?

Or a motorcycle? No, no, like one of those electric bikes. Electric bike, okay, bike, okay, okay. So I let him, but I always, but I make him put his location on the moment he leaves the house, location on. So I'm trying dude, but yeah, it's hard. It really has, uh, it really has changed me in terms of parenting. You try, you try. It's important. Like I did a lot growing up. I had a lot of freedom.

Yeah.

And it gave me a little bit of like street smarts and ability to adjust and make my way around life.

I mean, people probably wouldn't know this about you, but you've had a lot of death in

your family.

Yeah. Your grandmother, your cousin, you lost a child at a very young age. People ask me, because they know how close I am with my grandmother, they would say, Shannon, how did you get over? I say, you never get over it. You just get better at dealing with it.

How have you been able to get better at dealing with loss?

Well, Tony, when you lose a kid at that age, right, like you feel like nothing ever is going to feel worse. But I've done, I've managed to, I've managed to learn how to take those things and try to make them push me forward. So with my daughter, like I had never made a United States team.

After my daughter passed, I made six in a row. Wow. Swear to God. My daughter passed in June, or in May of,

You had a bigger purpose.

May of 20, yes.

That you didn't know.

Yes, and by August, I wrestled in the World Championships for the first time, then the Olympic Games, and all the way through. My mom, when she passed a couple years ago, obviously I don't do anything competitively anymore. But in terms of my media career, it's just gotten bigger, because I work harder now.

Because I know that even though I don't have to provide for her in the way that I did before, I still need to work. Because she was proud of that work. I want to do more TV because she watched everything. Even though she's not there watching now, I know she watched it all. I try to spin it.

That's the only way, because otherwise it cripples you. It does. It really does cripple you. I've heard stories about you and your grandmother and it's like an all special little lady she was to you. But yeah, you don't ever get over losing somebody you love that much. You can't. This cutting weight thing, you said that in Thanksgiving you weighed 257. Yeah. And basically 45, 50 days you were down to 204. Yep.

Obviously, that's very taxing on the body.

Yes, it is.

Very taxing. Yes, it is. To cut that kind of water weight, because that's not all just good weight.

Yeah.

And you went into renal failure at one time, right?

I did, at the Olympic Games. Yeah, but I wasn't that big at the time. I was just, in wrestling, I didn't have the access to, I didn't have the access or the resources. I couldn't have done that without my chef. I had like Tyler Minton was working for me at the time. Every meal, every meal, every drink, he would feed me, then he would write it down. He would feed me, then he would write it down.

He would feed me, then he would write it down. I got to drink a kombucha every day. That was it. Outside of water, that's all I had. And some sort of electrolytes, stuff to make sure I wasn't cramping

when I went to the cage to train. But outside of that, I had water and every meal. Here you go. And at the right times. When I was wrestling, I would eat until Wednesday and then I just would not eat until I weighed in on Friday or Saturday.

I'd go three days without anything. But Rob DeWallis really still does that. The champ at 135, he just will not eat. You don't have to do it that way anymore

You don't he's got money. But yeah, I would uh

My kidneys quit on me at the Olympic Games. Mm-hmm never in the hospital

If I could have took an IV after weigh-ins, I'd have been fine. Right.

It was right before the Olympic Games that they did away with IVs. I didn't wanna cheat. I didn't wanna cheat. My body, dude, that was a... What's the most weight you've had to cut?

So, by design, if I was fighting on Saturday, when I showed up to Vegas on Tuesday, I probably was like 220, if it was good. But I remember one time in New York against Rumble and Buffalo, I was like 231 on Sunday before the fight on Saturday. What?

231 you gotta get out of the tooth 205. Yeah, but I was like I Was heavy so I'd go run lose like five pounds. You lose a lot of weight Shannon Yeah, and you drink a lot of water right those these nutritionists are so good at manipulating weight now Yeah, you have no idea. So like, if I'm like 217, 218, 220, like 220.

Oh, you're in sweet spot, you're in your wheelhouse.

Because now I've got that with two gallons of water in a day.

Right.

Right, that's 16 pounds at minimum. So by the time I get in that sauna, I'm like, it all comes off. But it's only for a short period of time. Right. Like, I'm at 204 and a half for maybe an hour.

When you re-

Hydrate, yeah.

Yeah.

What are you going back up to? You gonna rebound to what? 220, 225?

Yeah, when John Jones, when I fought John Jones and I was in peak physical condition, there was nothing I could do to get over 222. Like I mean literally train there for the last four weeks of camp. Because I was so locked in. When I fought Rumble Johnson I weighed 231 on Saturday night when I fought him the next day.

I weighed 205. Yeah, I gained 26 pounds overnight. That's too much. I felt so sluggish and horrible. But yeah, I've cut a lot of weight. I usually lose like 10 pounds an hour though, when you do those weight cuts.

Wow.

Do you feel that your height, I mean, cause like, you look a little bit, probably a tick under six foot tall.

I'm five, I've gotten shorter. I'm like five, 10, on a good day. Five, 10 and a half. I'm strong, Shannon.

Have you shrunk at all? Have you gotten shorter? Yeah, I think so too. I think as we get older, we shrink it. I believe I have. But when you use, like, for, I would think somebody your height would be ideal, is ideal for wrestling. Oh, for wrestling, yeah.

Because you got a short torso, but you got long legs.

Compact, yeah. And I'm good at getting close. Once I get, once I get, if I get, they say I'm sticky. Right. If I get close to you, I'm sticking to you, like you stuck in a fly trap. Right.

Like seriously, it's like.

So you're trying to close the distance.

Oh, if I got close, you're in trouble. If I can grab you by the head, really in trouble, because I had a thousand ways to finish a takedown. The moment I got your leg, you're in a lot of trouble, because I'm either going to move you here, left, right, up, down. It's all subtleties. It's the same thing. So Shannon, I could actually try to guard you right now, and I could not, because even

if you might not be able to run as fast as you did right you'll give me something in the shoulders or something in The eyes right gonna get some separation correct. That's me wrestling. I'm just like here here here here

And they get lost do you like it's funny like when you grab somebody here? Cuz I'm watching these boxes and you watch him close up He'll throw a punch and he put his hand up because he know what's coming and you do this and you throw that oh He'll do this and he'll do that. So, you know, like if I got this I know what he's gonna do

Absolutely. Ouch. I'll manipulate you to do what I want you to do Wow. Yeah, I'll manipulate you That's why like my takedown offense. I think I might have landed 50% of my take downs 40 Wow, they're like dude, you only landed 40. Like, yeah, but the first few aren't designed to take you down. Right. They're to set you up for number four, five, and six.

When I really wanna get you down.

When I really wanna get you down. Then you get up in the air, I did. Because it's all I knew. It's what we knew. Like they would watch, my uncles all watched the Wild War of the Sports every weekend. And we'd watch like George Foreman clips

and Muhammad Ali clips and Mike Tyson. So it's like, we're watching this greatness and it looks like us. That is where the difference was. You watch that greatness and it's like, wow, this dude looks like he could be where I'm from. And he's the man.

He's a superstar. That's what drew me into boxing. Because every story was about a kid from a tough neighborhood. He was from Michigan, he was from Louisville, Kentucky. He was from just all these places.

Philly, Main Street.

Main Street's like, wait a minute, this looks very familiar. And look at him today. Right. So yeah, it just drew me in.

Bud and Canelo.

That's a tough fight. I saw Bud recently.

He's big.

Bud's bigger than you think.

He's stronger than you think.

Yeah, he's strong, too.

Yo, Bud's son is ridiculous. We had WrestleMania right up the street. He got a belt. He walked past me and he was looking at me the whole time. He looked at me, he said, you the wrestler. I knocked you out on UFC. I was like, boy, you crazy. When he crazy, Bud told me he had to whip him.

Bud said he went to Sean, what's his name? Sean Crawford, Sean Taylor, Sean, Sean.

Sean Porter.

Sean Porter. Sean Porter. Bud said, Sean, Bud said, I said, what Sean Porter said, my dad knocked you out. Sean Porter had to call him and be like, well, your son's crazy. Bud said, I had to spank you.

He crazy, but yes, he's bigger. It's a big time fight. Canelo better have his game ready. Yeah. Because if not, he's going to get beat by Bud. Yeah. Bud, I mean, like I said, Bud, Bud, I mean, Bud walks, Bud fought at, you know, last part of, you know, junior middleweight at 154, but Bud walks around at like 180.

He's big, man. And he's tall too.

Yeah.

He's very tall. He looked big. You went watch him train too? No, we did an interview with him. I said, he's stronger than you think. He's stronger than you can tell.

Yeah, he's stronger than you think.

And he's got his hands full.

He does. You were bullied as a kid. Is that why you got into wrestling and fighting? Because you were bullied, you're like, I ain't taking this ish no more.

So I was bullied bad, Shannon. Okay. This guy used to beat me up all the time. He would beat me up for no reason. It was like no reason to fight me. He would just pick on me. They could have three other kids fight. They would show up to watch the fight. Then once that fight was over, he's like,

I might as well give me one until they get it done. I was scared too. I was so scared of him. And then I learned to wrestle. over man. Once I got him once it was over. But yeah, yeah, it gave me self defense. I think wrestling is so important for kids because then you learn to defend yourself and also it gives you a confidence. I got this academy in Gilroy, the Daniel Cormier Wrestling Academy.

Kids walk in and they're hunched over, looking like scared because the ones that have been doing it for a while have this intensity about them. They're strong. They're confident, right? six months later, they're like Walking in with some I'm like, okay. Yeah, this what I need. That's what wrestling gives you I think it's the best right have you ever been arrested for a screen fighting one time? I got arrested in college when I was a freshman. I punched the guy man. What do you do?

so I went to a junior college in Kansas and One of the biggest mistakes that young black men make when they go to different places is they almost try to recreate themselves You can be a great kid But you will portray yourself as a gangster or a bad guy, right? Because you want people to not only respect you you want to make sure you fit in and they kind of fear you A little bit. Yep. It's like very important

So I did that and I'm at this party It was what his party and the guy comes out and says house and he starts talking and he said something that I viewed as Disrespectful when he came charging towards me So I punched him bro He I don't know if his jaw was like super like loose. He went to sleep. He went down and his jaw broke really bad.

So blood's like everywhere. We run off, me and all my wrestler friends, the cops come to get us. We're in Kansas, I was like, well man, I saw this Mexican dude do it and run away. They said, nah man, it was you.

It was you, Eric.

You done tried to put it off on somebody.

I tried to put it on a Mexican dude, man. I was like, oh, they ain't got many brown people out here. They ain't got many brown people out here. They said, no, it was you. They put me in jail. I was crying, dude.

Then they put me in jail on a Friday night, Shannon. And in those little towns. to get you to Monday. And then once Monday come, they got 72 hours to see you. Yeah. And they kept me in jail till Wednesday. Damn. I was crying.

My mom actually, to pay to get me out, she had to take like, put it up against her house. Wow. To get me out of jail, she put her house on the line as a counter for the... For the bail.

For the bail, yep. And then I was like, this woman will do anything for me. I'm the one that messed up. Right. I ran her phone bill up, calling her every day, thousands and thousands of dollars. They ain't had nothing to pay that,

but she answered it every time. That's why she was the best to me. Everybody like, oh, you love your mama more than you love anybody in the world. I was like, you saw what she did for me? She was the best.

You tried some everything. You sold drugs as a kid? You tried to?

Shannon, I was a bad drug dealer.

What's the what?

Shannon, you don't want to hear this story. Shannon, we made fake drugs one time.

Oh, Lord.

Shannon, we went. So you cut grass and just put this was when I was a kid no no no Back when I was growing up. It wasn't weed it was crack. Oh I tried to sell cracks and I was broke I needed $20 bro. You don't know how to cook. I don't know how to cook I don't know I don't know nothing about it, but listen what we did though. We took some wax yeah, and

Put orgel on it. Because I guess that it must numb the face or something. One of my friends told me that. So I gave it to the dude. He gave me the money.

He, he's dark.

He look up, I took off running.

I took off.

I took off. I took off.

I took off. I took off. Man, he called me, man. He called you? I gave him the money back. I gave him, like, here you go, man, you got me. That bad, now, you done ate the crack, now. You out of this place. That was the last time.

That was the last time I ever tried some stupid shit like that. I was like, man, this is sports for me. It was bad. Could a boxer ever be the MMA fighter in a street fight? No, no. They would get taken down. It would happen too fast. I saw James Tony fight Randy Couture.

James Tony was one of the slickest, best boxers of all time. He tapped without actually tapping Randy. He just waved at the ref like, save me. Right. That's what happens when boxers fight.

The baddest man on the planet is a mixed martial arts fighter Nothing else in terms of hand-to-hand combat, right? Yeah, the baddest man on the planet is the UFC heavyweight champion every time Unless Francis and God was out there fighting for someone else, right? There's a chance that he's the baddest man on the planet the chance it might be somebody else he might beat whoever we have because he's that good.

But if not, it's either Tom Aspinall, Francis Ngannou, or Jon Jones right now. Those are the baddest men on the planet, nobody else.

We come back and have a conversation five years, 10 years from now.

Yep. What's DC doing? Probably the same thing, probably doing the same thing. Working UFC fights. I love my job. I love calling fights. I think I have the best job in the world.

Podcasting, doing television, same. Because I don't think that right now, I don't think that right now I'm willing to stop. We said earlier, you're a worker, I'm a worker. I just might be living in the town wherever my son or my daughter goes to college. I just can't let it go.

I told my daughter the other day, I said, pick a school close and I'll pay everything.

I want to get far away.

She said, I mean, you think of the colleges yet? She goes, what? No. She goes, Dad, I'm 13. I go, could you go to Cal? Or like, stay close. I'll pay your rent. I'll give you a stipend.

I'll do everything. She was like, no, you don't have to. You're good. She said, you want to get away from my ass. My man. Cormier. Cormier. Yeah. DC! That was good.

All my life, been grinding all my life.

Sacrifice, hustle pay the price.

Want a slice, got to roll the dice.

That's why, all my life, I been grinding all my life. All my life, been grinding all my life. Sacrifice, hustle pay the price. Sacrifice, hustle pay the price. Want a slice, got to roll the dice.