Inside Dubai: Emirati Lifestyle, Zero Tax System & UAE’s Future | Dr Abdulnasser | FO409 Raj Shamani

Dubai.

There was nothing.

What did Dubai do right?

Plots were given at very low cost compared to today's prices. And today even that is not enough.

What are the benefits of being an Emirati?

We do get certain allowances when it comes to your wedding expenses. You also get certain support when it comes to getting the plot of land.

Those perks are there.

30 years ago, the UAE was a desert. Today, it's one of the richest, safest and most futuristic countries in the world. How did this transformation happen? In today's episode, we have Dr. Abdul Nasir Alshali, the ambassador of the UAE to India. We talked about whether the UAE real estate boom is real or just hype waiting to crash and what are the top three opportunities to build wealth in the UAE today for people in their 20s. everything is like very globalized. Do you face any problem? We are a Muslim country because of a sizable Muslim population.

That does not mean that we cannot adopt global ideas.

Like you're not allowed to take your gunman's around, right? In Dubai.

No, no, no.

There's also a culture of gifting in UAE. Do you think that happened when Trump said, oh, nice plane? The culture allows for it, and you never know. How does UAE allow people to have lions and tigers as pets?

People have ways to be able to bring those animals. Are they taking care of them or are they making a joke out of those animals? It's not supposed to happen.

Can somebody at a powerful position misuse power?

There are always individuals who will abuse their power. This is part of human nature.

Emirates airline, 1985. Best airlines in the world. What was the vision for that airline?

The vision was to bring as many people to the UAE as possible. You do the best in your field and you build that credibility.

You have something called Ministry of Possibilities.

What is that?

This is where you figure out very difficult problems.

Is real estate market in Dubai gonna crash? Do other Muslim countries look down on you? Before moving ahead, subscribe to this channel so that we can keep making more insightful and better podcasts for you. And the audio experience of this show is available on Spotify where you can follow us.

Enjoy the show.

I wanted to start by saying, there's a joke in our circle,

which is the most expensive place in India is Dubai.

I've heard this joke in different iterations. Yeah, I've heard this.

How much of it do you agree with?

Dubai is familiar, I think.

Very.

Yeah, and there are quite a few cities in India that are also familiar for Emiratis. So, like, I wish I had the problem in Delhi of too many Emiratis coming in. You know, it's always, I get messages, what's up messages or whatever from family.

Like family members I may not have heard from for like years. Oh, we're going to Mumbai and you know, we want to book in this hotel and we want someone to, you know, show us around if possible, et cetera. And well, because there's an assumption that if you're an ambassador in the country, show us around if possible, et cetera. Well, because there's an assumption that if you're an ambassador in the country,

then you get to do those kind of things. I do it out of my own pocket. But the point is, there's just this interest to go to Mumbai because it's also very familiar for them. Like they go there and they shop and they like the place. I mean, I woke up today and to me,

yes, it was warmer than usual, but the weather was nice.

Okay, so we were talking about Dubai and UAE. This was a desert a while ago, right? There was nothing. What did Dubai do right? When did this even start that, hey, you know what? UAE, we want to make it one of the best countries in the world.

We're going to attract the best of the best people from the world. We make it truly global. We're going to go away from this whole concept of wherever we come from. Just want to make sure that we build this so Cosmo that we will do everything right. How, when did this start?

What did you guys do right? I want to know everything. Like this is fascinating. Because you look a photo of 1990 versus today, it doesn't look like the same place.

All across the Emirates. They're all different, right? But let me tell you, since you asked specifically about this, you go to Dubai regularly, right? Have you, are you familiar with the old trade center building?

No.

There is this building, you know Sheikh Zayed Road.

World Trade Center, you're talking about?

World Trade Center. Yeah, I know.

Right, okay.

When this was constructed, there was nothing around it.

It looks like it's constructed from very old times, yeah.

And that's it. So like this whole place, no one was interested in that place. Those plots of land that are now among the most expensive, because they're in such a prime location, no one wanted them, believe it or not.

So the inspiration was that you build this there, people would see it, so you see that the government is committed, or the ruler is committed to developing this area. And those plots were given at a certain rate, very minimal on lease or ownership kind of arrangement

back in the day, whatever that arrangement was, but very low cost, like almost nothing compared to today's prices. And this gave everyone the encouragement to basically start developing those towers that you see or the different buildings that you see on Sheikh Zayed Road.

And Sheikh Zayed Road is the main highway connecting all of the Emirates. When they wanted to develop a new port in Dubai, and this was during Sheikh Rashid's time, so the father of Sheikh Hanbal Rashid. What they wanted, I'm not entirely sure

that the number is accurate, I think they wanted to do six, and he wanted to do more than four times that number back in the day. And no one could think or imagine, why would he want to, no one's coming here. Like, okay, there's some trade that's taking place,

but not big enough that you want to spend all of that money to have that infrastructure. So why are we doing this? Why are you wasting the money? And today, even that is not enough. So I think it's something that you can easily apply

to all of the Emirates, each in their unique kind of examples and cases where you need to show what you're trying to get to or to put something out there for people to see and to be able to widen their imagination and their scope of thinking

when it comes to what are not just the ambitions of the country, but what can be achieved even after X number of years. So now, even if you look at Abu Dhabi, for instance, you've been to Abu Dhabi.

Yes.

Abu Dhabi has now developed a very unique model where you have a cultural district and you have the main Abu Dhabi city with its own urban planning and so on. You have Suryaas Island, for example, it is where everyone goes for entertainment.

And then you have Sa'diyat where you go to see art or you go to visit the museum and so on. So it became very specific and very specialized, with each area having its own unique selling point. So many things that happened, those ambitions that were put forward and so on,

started a little bit before that. And there was a lot of focus on trade. Everyone understood the importance of trade and each and every model was developed differently. Now, the one thing that I think is quite important here is how agile and how flexible are you?

So yes, maybe a few things started before and around the union, but then let's talk about Emirates Airlines. Emirates Airlines only came to being in 1985. So yes, we started with diving for pearls and then the model evolved because oil was not the main source of income

back in the day. And people, by the way, from the UAE would go and work elsewhere in the Gulf. Because in those other places, oil was already discovered and was already generating certain revenues or certain amount of income.

Other countries had more employment.

Exactly. And then that model in the UAE started to develop, you know, as a trade hub, as a country that exports hydrocarbons. And then slowly you started developing those other sectors. So what's important today?

What is the future looking like? I mean, 1985, is aviation important? Do we need to have a world-leading airline? Not today, but we need it for 30 years down the line. So that's why I was telling you, you know, like the port example

or the World Trade Center example and so on, they are more of, they're symbolic more than anything else of, okay, the future is going that way, and we want to start today. Which is, for example, if we fast forward to today, you talk about AI now, right?

And we just announced a Stargate between G42 and OpenAI, up to five gigawatts capacity, closer to countries and regions that would need that capacity. Aren't people thinking about AI? They are.

Aren't they talking about AI and using it in their daily kind of activities? They are. But we want to be one step ahead because we know how this is going to be in the future. We did something also a few years back in the UAE,

which is the genome sequencing of the UAE population. How many countries do you know that is actively doing this? None comes to mind, right?

I have no, like, it's all private right now. Nobody's doing it.

Okay. So I remember when I was going to Cleveland Clinic Abu Dhabi and doing some blood works. No, they have a counter right next to the reception in front of the lab. And they're like, do you want to do it? So now every time they ask, I'm like, I've done it like a few years back, right? So the idea is they wanted to see how can we map out the diseases of

the future so that we can basically be better prepared, insurance-wise, healthcare services-wise. And this is why, for example, now we have this new regulation that came out recently where for two individuals to get married, they have to go and do genetic testing.

Really?

Yes.

In whole of UAE or just Dubai?

Whole of the UAE. And-

And why?

We were having this conversation of, is this important or not? And I know that genetic testing is important to basically find out if there are any mutations. So like if you want to have a baby, if you wanna have a child,

you want to make sure that the child is healthy, can grow up normally, it's better for the parents and it's also better for the country, right? And obviously you can't control for everything, but you can control as much as possible

and hope for the best. And then if something goes wrong, you can obviously deal with it. But the idea was that in the past, they used to do it only for a very specific blood illness. And then they'd be like, okay, so you're carrying it,

and that other person's carrying it, there is this risk, you understand the risk and so on. But like no prohibition or like, you know the risk and now you can decide. So genetic testing was important in the country and in the culture and the society where it's very common to marry within the family.

And once that is, like, when you look at the trends and the kind of illnesses or diseases that have come out in the UAE or became very prominent in the UAE, it's because of, part of the reason is because of that. Doesn't mean you don't need to, or you don't, like or you're not supposed to,

but at least we need to understand what are the risks.

And potential complications.

And potential complications that you also need to understand if you actually go ahead with this marriage.

Very interesting. I'm intrigued to talk more about future, but I wanna go back. So back to, you said Emir, but I want to go back. You said Emirates airline, 1985. Yeah. Why would somebody think like, I need one of the most luxurious, best airlines in the world in 1985, where UAE itself has not become anything big.

Correct. What was going on and what was the vision for that airline?

The vision was, we need to bring as many people to the UAE as possible. Okay. And initially, the aircrafts that were used were leased. And they had like, I think fewer than five destinations, or maybe five initial destinations that they started with,

just to basically move people from those countries to the UAE and back. And then the model also evolved, as I told you. We're not fixated on certain things. We're happy to evolve and to basically adapt. And the model evolved into, okay, no, but people also want to travel elsewhere and we can help them travel elsewhere at ease. They can spend that with the UAE going back and forth. The idea was, especially for a city like Dubai,

no hydrocarbon resources. The focus from the very beginning was on other kind of sectors. As we want to develop those non-oil sectors to become the drivers of economic growth and the engines for future prosperity. And so you have, you know, like when we talk ports or ports development,

we have logistics, and then you have one of the leading companies worldwide. And then we talk tourism and aviation, and you have one of the leading companies worldwide. And then we talk tourism and aviation, and you have one of the leading companies worldwide. And then you go to Abu Dhabi, and yes, hydrocarbon resources are there,

but you also now have a world-leading airline. You also have a world-leading logistics or ports company, and you have also other kinds of sovereign wealth funds and companies that invest in infrastructure and other kinds of projects. And part of that investment is also creating the value chain for the UAE. So again, they all develop differently. I don't think the intention was that we want the best airline or the best ports company,

but then you do the best in your field, in your country, and then you provide the same kind of service elsewhere, and you build that credibility and trustworthiness that now other countries and other people are trusting you.

So it's not the obsession of becoming the best, the biggest, the tallest, the grandest, and the first, and all of these things which you usually associate with UAE, right? It doesn't start like that, or does it?

They're symbolic. So when we want to do something, we want to be the best at it. Doesn't mean it has to be the tallest or the largest or the fastest or whatever. We want to be the best at it.

But the intention is to have those unique selling points. So Fariworth came in and they have the fastest rollercoaster, great for them. But they are doing that, you know, we're not doing that. And so that's the thing that you can apply to every single thing that we have done.

But then, is that the philosophy of UAE and Dubai and Abu Dhabi and all of these places there? Whatever is out there in the world, why don't we get it here? Like all the best things, all the nice things or something which is needed or maybe just desiring, let's get it here.

We are in middle of desert, we'll build a mall with skiing in it. Like, with snow in it. Like what do you guys do?

Well, it's a good way to train. If you want to train for skiing before going somewhere and try to be professional. So my kids used to go there. So it's good. You know, like I'm really bad at skiing.

I've tried it ages ago and it was a complete failure. Thank God no one got hurt because I was crashing into everything. But that was one way for my kids to pick it up.

But then that's not the only like, this is just for...

I know, I get it.

You're like, hey, you know what, my kids need to train. So we'll build a ski house inside a mall. Right. I get it. I get it. If that's the reason, I'll be really happy to know that. Unique selling points, something special, something different. Again, anyone can build malls, right?

Anyone can build.

But is it like we'll build, they'll come?

Yes, and now, so the initial model, yes, part of the model, the development model was, we will build it, we will create it, we will have it, and people will come. And now, in certain aspects, supplies don't even catch up with the bat. So it now became the other way around.

There are too many people coming, too many people who want to live in the UAE, and the real estate projects, for instance, are barely catching up, which instance, are barely catching up.

Yeah.

Which is why prices are going up, rent is going up, et cetera.

You're telling me now there's more demand than supply?

In terms of people are very...

Real estate projects, there's insanity in real estate projects everywhere I go, whether it's Dubai or Ras Al Khaimah or Abu Dhabi, I visited these three places, everything is getting developed by the biggest of the biggest names in the world and new people, everything is just getting made. Who's going to live in these houses? Like there's so many of them. Isn't it oversupply?

Let me give you an example, also a specific example. When I first came to India, obviously we nominate individuals for the Golden Visa and one of the individuals that we nominated, like solid profile businesses and so on, and the first thing he did when he got the golden visa was go to the UAE and buy two properties.

Now, are you going to live in two properties simultaneously? No, but maybe one to live in, one for investment or to lease out and that's the idea. If you look at like what's happening in the UAE, you would probably find that maybe someone's living

in a house, in a home, and they're home, and they have another maybe beach house in some other emirate or an apartment or a condo or whatever, and that is for the weekend. Or for example, they would have multiple properties and people who are not buying the property would be leasing those properties. So the market has developed significantly and in a very sophisticated manner post the 2008 global financial crisis

and has become like the laws and regulations have been changed and updated to make sure that, even if something happens in the future, it's not something as big of a reaction as it was to the global financial crisis. So are there too many projects?

Absolutely. Are people buying into all of those projects equally? I highly doubt it because there are certain developers you might be very familiar with, other developers you're not familiar with. So you'll probably go with the developers that you're familiar with. And then it's for all those other reasons that I mentioned. But do you think the real estate market is going to crash? Is it just hype? No.

Is it going to correct? I read two statements recently. One of the big developers in UAE said that next year the market is going to correct and the prices will come down normally because it's highly inflated right now. Then I think someone from the royal family said no, we are seeing a surge. There's a report that there are more people coming in.

So it's like there's's gonna be more demand.

It's a question mark. You're right. But correct is the right word, not crash. And every single market, real estate, stocks, you name it, it's always good to have a correction because you can go in, buy more,

reduce your cost, et cetera, and then your dividends become higher in terms of percentage, your yield becomes higher in terms of the rent. And so is it going to happen next year? I think that's someone just trying to be, you can't forecast it this way. This is not how it works. And what has made sure that there is more interest in providing

higher number of units, larger supply, is those cycles of people coming in. So it will all have to do with, okay, are there more people coming in next year or not? So far, people are still coming in, and there are more people coming in, and more people interested in moving to the UAE, and there are all kinds of stories of,

not, I mean, what you see are thousands of millionaires have shifted to the UAE, but no, there are also other people who are, they decide to want to come to the UAE because they can get the same kind of education, maybe even better kind of education, better healthcare, and they like the infrastructure,

they like the safety of the place, and they enjoy it. So would a market correct? Markets always go through correction phases, but they are different from one place to another. Is it a correction based on something wrong with the fundamentals?

No, but if there was a slowdown and the numbers of people coming in, and obviously the supply is going up in the near future, then that's only normal for it to happen, and then it corrects, and then the whole thing gets balanced out.

You would obviously say that.

Okay.

Yeah. Why do you think so?

Of course, because you will have to, you won't give me a clear picture of maybe something is just hyped up. You would, because you are at a position and you would want to only talk nice things about it.

I'll give you my own example.

Yeah.

Since you said that, you know, I'll have to say, you know, it's only normal that I'll be saying positive things. I bought a property in 2019 in Dubai. And that property is, like, back in 2019, there was some sort of a correction. Things were slowing down. people were not buying.

And I remember back in the day, I think if the developer knew that the market was going to go all up in three to four years time, they wouldn't have sold it at the price that they sold it at.

Today, it's 2.5x. But guess what my yield is or my return is on this?

I don't know, tell me.

12% plus, year on year. 12% at the current rent, which is lower than the average market rent by 18%. Do you think I should sell?

Of course not.

There you go. Because by the end of the day, you measure your rent based on your cost price.

But it's more for the rental yield. You're not talking about flipping. So in India, most people die and flip.

They don't actually give it to someone for renting. Even in the UAE, by the way, the only thing that have changed, when I told you that things have changed since 2008, is that now you cannot flip until you have paid 25% of the unit.

You know this.

Yeah.

But my advice would have been to you not to buy today. I would have advised you to wait because if a correction is going to happen,

buy when it's at a good price.

Buy when the developer really wants to sell to you at a more reasonable price. I mean, the only reason why I'm making more than 12% is because the unit was sold at a price lower than what the market would have been at if there was no correction back in the day.

And this was pre-COVID-19. So COVID-19 happened, and then, you know, things slowed down even further. But what came out of 2019, 2020, and COVID, is that people now are no longer interested in apartments, they're interested in houses.

And, you know, like, you get my point. And then that took the demand into a whole different level regardless of whether people were coming in or not. So like the dynamics of the market are very different. Each kind of unit, each kind of property is different. The location has a whole different

like kind of medical aspect. And again, are you in it long term, are you in it short term? Is there going to be a correction? Absolutely, there's not a single market worldwide that does not go through some sort of a correction.

So Airbnb, the markets keep gonna going up? You think that the more visitors are coming, or people are, have people gotten bored of UAE and Dubai tourism? Or do they wanna keep coming again?

No, they wanna keep coming again. If you keep seeing the numbers, the numbers are going up. And we need to maybe segregate the two. There are people who are moving into the UAE to live, and there are people who are visiting and they want to continue to visit.

And among those, there's a group that keep visiting every single year. So if they are planning a vacation, they're going to the UAE. If they're going to, if they have a weekend to spend somewhere, they'll go to the UAE. If they want to, I don't know, they want to go and do some

checkup, they go to the UAE, if that's the intention. So when it comes to Airbnb or leasing, I mean, I would be worried, concerned, if there's a correction happening within the next two years, if you are renting that apartment,

and if there's a correction, then you will have fewer people to rent that apartment or rent that unit from you. But in terms of Airbnb, people will visit. And people do look for options that are different than your traditional classic hotel,

especially if they want to stay for longer periods in the UAE. Airbnb makes more sense. And Airbnb as a model is more sophisticated and more rewarding than your typical lease. 2X in the UAE is not high enough.

So bottom line with this is, is real estate market in Dubai going to crash? No. No.

It might correct.

Like all markets. And then you have... Like how you add like all markets. Like all markets and then...

Proper diplomat.

By the way, I'm probably the least diplomatic person you will meet. But no, I'm saying this and I genuinely believe in it. All markets correct.

Yeah.

And that's the beauty of it. When markets correct and you have the cash,

go and shop.

That's the best time to do it.

Timing, that is very difficult.

I don't think people can time it. Yeah, that's exactly the point. Maybe somebody somewhere who's close to some people,

but I don't think normal people can actually time it.

It's, I mean, there are always indicators and there are always certain signals that show you when something is happening. Someone told me this percentage a while ago. I don't know how accurate it is, but that 60% of the capacity in the market,

of the supply in the market has not been delivered, or maybe it's the other way around. I can't, I'm not sure, but let's say roughly it's around 50%. So that's the question. When all of the supply gets delivered,

what will happen to the market? But then those projects, that's why I was telling you, it cannot just simply be next year, because those projects go all the way to 2028, 2029, maybe some of them to 2030.

So this also extends the lifetime of any correction to happen, that it happens more slowly, more

gradually until the market also adapts to it. There was one real estate developer who is from India and he was on the podcast. I asked him specifically that a lot of people around the world now are investing in UAE and it has become a very hot market for people to buy real estate especially Indians they are really really putting in money and earlier only the top 1% rich class would try to put money in UAE now a lot of people with their decent salaries and EMI's are trying to now look at opportunities in UAE to buy real estate so I asked him a question that why don't

invest in UAE? Don't you think that's a good market? And he said two things. First, he said he's worried that you don't own anything in UAE. It's like managed by the royal family rulers. Okay. Anything goes down, they'll put out some statements and the things will go up again. Like they have, they control certain market

because their word, you have to buy it on the face value. We don't nationalize anything. And the reason why the UA is the UA is because we have a very specific areas where you have freehold or very specific ownership structure, okay?

When you buy a property, and that property gets handed over to you, there you can get from the app or whatever an initial contract of sale, which allows you to lease the property, to mortgage the property

if you want to mortgage the property and so on. It's yours. And so I find this very inaccurate and very misleading because you own it, you buy it, you own it. There's not a single thing or a single experience or example where someone, whatever that position is,

just would come in and be like, no, now this is my land or this is my property and you can go and- Can somebody do it?

No, no.

Laws apply to everyone. Some local person with a UAE passport or someone close to the royal family or the royal family itself, just be like, this land now not from us because we want to build something here.

And then, she's just away. Bye. You mean if someone already owns it? Yeah. No, they would be offered a very reasonable price if that was really the case.

And they still have the decision to sell or not to sell. So if you are doing a project, and you want to do it- Isn't it because it's run by the rulers? Then they can do, that's not like proper government or democracy, you can't challenge it anywhere in the international court. I'll give you a very specific example.

One of my biggest struggles, not struggles, but one of the things that I get requested, but I can't do much about, is can the ruler intervene with a court ruling to, for example, reduce the sentence or allow this person to go back to their countries or whatever, and I cannot do it.

You cannot do it. The only thing that happens is during Ramadan or during one of the two Eids, that the ruler would have a list of prisoners to be released from the UAE prisons. The question is, can somebody at a powerful position

misuse power because the country is not democratic?

You can't vote out the person using or misusing the power.

See, there are always, I think in every system, there are always individuals who will abuse their power or abuse their position. This is part of human nature, not part of a country's DNA. But the question is, do you have the checks and balances

to be able to bring those individuals to be accountable for what they have done? And in the UAE, it's the highest you can possibly find anywhere in the world. And the second point that the developer said was what you see right now, the whole hype in Dubai specifically he was talking about, it's war hype.

It's war hype. Okay. And what he meant by that, because there's so much chaos, everybody's just parking their money and shifting here till the time everything goes back to normal. The moment it goes back to normal,

people would want to go back to their countries. So the rich of the Russia and the Ukraine, a lot of Russians have started investing in UAE in last couple of years after the war. So like that's the hype. After Brexit, a lot of Britishers started investing in UAE

and you see see in fact, I think the biggest brokers or the biggest people buying are Britishers out there right now, even more than Indians today. So British after Brexit, because people started thinking that maybe the UK economy is not going to do well, so they're coming here. So everywhere, whenever there's going to be a war hype, UAE is gonna gain because it's very friendly for people to come, stay, be safe, be at a nice place,

park your money for a while and then go back. Partially correct. Whether they're gonna do it for a while or for the long term, that's completely up to the individual but yes, whenever there's something happening in the region or in some other region,

the first thing that people think of is, we want to go to the UAE and we want to shift to the UAE. But there are also other examples. So Brexit happened a few years back. Why are people from the United Kingdom still moving to the UAE?

Right? I mean, there's no act of war or anything.

Yeah, but there's an army of British brokers who are selling stuff left, right, center.

No, but brokers sell you dreams everywhere, right? Why are Indians moving to the UAE? Why are the Chinese moving to the UAE? There are no active wars. I mean, there was a recent conflict between India and Pakistan, but other than that, no.

But Indians are not leaving because of that.

Yeah, but they were moving even before that happens. And they would be moving for quite some time.

Why are Indians moving to UAE? Why do you think Indians are moving?

So usually when I fly Delhi-Dubai, I go for the afternoon flight. That one time I had something in the afternoon, so I went for the evening flight, which arrives around midnight. I was in the bus. So that slot for me is really bad because you don't even get to the gate.

They park the aircraft somewhere else and the bus takes you around until you get delivered to the terminal. There were a few individuals and a couple of them were Indians and they were talking and I was listening.

And they don't know who I am. They don't know what my position is. I was the ambassador back then. And one of them was saying, you know, pre-COVID, I was actually going to go back. I don't like it here.

I don't want to live here. And I thought, you know, that's it. But then COVID happened. And I saw how this place reacted to COVID, how they dealt with COVID. There was no discrimination between Emiratis and non-Emiratis.

Everyone had a fair shot at getting first access to vaccine and top-notch healthcare. And now we're living here, me and my wife and my kids. And now within what he was saying, he also made, he also criticized, because someone asked him, he's like,

where are we? Like, why is it taking this long to get to the terminal? He's like, yeah, yeah, we got dropped off in Sharjah, because Sharjah's very close to Dubai, and Dubai airport's very close to Sharjah. So he was making a joke that, you know,

the aircraft parked in Sharjah, now the bus has to take us back to Dubai. Dubai, but like, okay, despite that, what he really said and like was part of, like the main point of what he was saying is he found reasons to live in the UAE because of COVID. Now, is it true that people move to the UAE when some conflict breaks out elsewhere?

Yes, we've seen it with 2011, we've seen it with the Russian-Ukrainian conflict, and you can have so many examples as such. But COVID was also a turning point, and people don't realize how much of a turning point it has been. The way we have dealt with it, the way we have provided certain services, the way people felt that you don't have to go and fight over groceries.

There wasn't a single instance where you would go to a grocery shop or a hypermarket and not find the essentials or what you need for. Not only the essentials, even the other things. I mean, the brands changed and you did for, not only the essentials, even the other things. I mean, the brands changed and you were getting them now from different other sources,

but they were always there. And that, people don't forget such things. Like when something happens and it's as traumatizing as COVID is and you find this safe zone or haven that the UAE is, you wouldn't want to go elsewhere. safe zone or haven that the UAE is,

you wouldn't want to go elsewhere. And now after that, obviously, it became probably a word of mouth, you know? By the way, we're living here, we like it, we're enjoying it, it's great. You know, I would go pick up my kids from school whenever I'm in the UAE,

and I would talk to the parents there. And one of them is originally from an Asian country, but has been living in the UK, so has the citizenship and so on. And they moved to the UAE. And he's like, you know, it's a British school

and it's a British teaching system, which we like and we're comfortable with. And he was telling me, like he was comparing the British schools in the UAE, and that why this one is the appropriate one for their kids, and why now they can, you know, why now they're living here because they like it.

He even talked about the healthcare system specifically, and that why there is quite a long time, and this is public information when it comes to NHS in the United Kingdom, no such wait time exists in the UAE. You can go to any hospital

and get medical treatment right away. Even if you want to go for a checkup, you still get it right away.

So UAE has multiple emirates. Abu Dhabi, Dubai. Everybody has their own rulers. How all of them come together? Because they might have their own tradition, on way of thinking, on way of vision, on way of money.

Formed the union of seven emirates, with a ruling family in each of the emirates. I don't know if you know this or not, but there is what we call the Supreme Council. And the Supreme Council is a council of all the seven rulers.

And those seven rulers have to agree on who the next president of the UAE is going to be.

It's like a board meeting.

Very high level board meeting. So when the late Sheikh Khalifa, peace be upon his soul, passed away, they met and they chose Sheikh Muhammad bin Zayed to be the next UAE president. And so this is how the system works.

So the president was his father, right?

His brother. His brother.

His older brother. Yeah. But isn't it the next president would be because the monarchy is there, so he will be the next president.

So he was the crown prince. And because he's the crown Prince of Abu Dhabi, he becomes the ruler of Abu Dhabi. Not the consulate. Yeah, so the Supreme Council has to convene and choose the next president of the UAE. Now, by default, it has been Abu Dhabi

because Abu Dhabi is the capital, Abu Dhabi is the largest emirate of the UAE and so on,

but the Supreme Council does convene, the Supreme Council does choose Abu Dhabi is the largest emirate of the UAE and so on.

But the Supreme Council does convene, the Supreme Council does choose the next president of the UAE. So they're the, and Abu Dhabi's the richest, right? Amongst all of them.

Yes.

Do all Arab nations compete with each other? Is there a healthy competition between UAE and Saudi Arabia and all of these?

All competitions have the competition. Whether it's among GCC countries or if it's with other countries.

Is there a neck to neck competition between Saudi, Qatar and UAE? Each country provides different unique selling points. They're all trying to attract the world towards them.

And we all want to attract the world to it. And there is enough appetite for everyone in the Gulf. If you look at Qatar and Saudi, for example, they were very keen on hosting the World Cup. Qatar did it, Saudi is going to do it. We haven't bid for the World Cup.

So we haven't pursued that, for instance. We have done Expo a couple of years back. And you've done cricket. We do cricket. So sports diplomacy is something that we focus on. Cultural diplomacy is something we focus on.

And if you look at the Gulf today, we have different things to offer. The landscape is different. Like even if it comes to tourism and wanting to bring visitors and tourists and increase the number

of international arrivals in each country. Have you been to those countries? Yeah.

All of them?

No, just Qatar.

Okay, so Saudi has a very different landscape and terrain from the north all the way to the south. And they grow coffee in abundant quantities when it comes to the south. If you go to Qatar, Qatar doesn't grow coffee, but Qatar has developed infrastructure,

stadiums because of the World Cup, and they have also certain Western F&B outlets that are not necessarily in the UAE, as well as universities. We have certain universities that are not in Saudi and not in Qatar, and we also have Cleveland Clinic.

So we also offer different kind of unique selling points. We also have Guggenheim Museum, the Louvre, and so on. Oman, for example, has a very different terrain, very different landscape going from north to south. For instance, you would see visitors from the UAE, Qatar, Saudi, even Bahrain and perhaps Kuwait

to the south of Oman because the season is different there. The weather is different, the temperature is different than all of the GCC countries. Maybe in Saudi there are areas that are still cooler in the summer. But the point is, they're quite different

when it comes to their setting points. We agree on the big themes, we agree on the direction that we're taking in this world, the general outlook, global outlook that we have. But when you look into what each and every country is doing, they're quite different,

and their economic development model is also different.

By core, you are Islamic nation, but you have modernized it in such a way which looks global. There are certain things, let's say, now the casino is coming, which is a big deal for any nation in the GCC, I believe.

In Ras Al Khaimahema there's a casino coming?

Correct. Win right? Yeah. So that's coming. Alcohol has been there. Party culture, everything is like very globalized.

Do you face any problem in retaining your roots and getting the modern world together and building this bridge?

We are a Muslim country because of a sizable Muslim population. Let's put it this way. And our rules, the rules that we have are based on, obviously, Islamic rules and Islamic traditions and our Islamic heritage.

Now, that does not mean that we cannot adopt global ideas, but what we do is we adopt them and we localize them. So that the model that you get is not a model that we got from some other country in the Far East or some country in the Far West, no. It's a UAE idea from a global thought

or global idea that has been localized to the UAE because of the traditions that we have. And not necessarily only Islamic traditions, but even the societal, cultural traditions that we have as an Emirati population. Is there a struggle?

There's always going to be a struggle. Because now, I mean, you've been to the UAE, you've gone to the malls, and you would see people dressed in all kinds of ways. And even when I go to the mall and I see how certain individuals dress,

it makes me uncomfortable. Because you're in the country, and when you are in the country, you should respect the traditions of this country. Not because someone is going to penalize you or sentence you or, I don't know, impose a fine

because you haven't, like you're not wearing proper clothes to walk in a shopping mall, but because those are the norms of the country, of the population. I live in India today. Even as an ambassador,

I need to do things right. I cannot walk around pretending not to understand certain cultural aspects, respect them, abide by the norms of the country and how people are living in this country. So it's always going to be a struggle,

it's always going to be a challenge. But we have done everything possible to retain those cultural norms. Again, my struggle with my kids is to teach them also certain things that I don't want them to not know as they grow up.

You know, the older generations, they would have a majlis. I want to be specific here. Like, let's say the grandfather, for instance, or even the father, and guests would be coming in, and you will have Arabic coffee,

and you will have what we call foala. Foala is, you know, just like an Indian home, we need to feed anyone who walks into the house, and feed them really well. But if it's not lunchtime or if it's not dinner time, we have what we have during those meals,

we call it foala and it can be certain dishes and so on. So like there is a certain way to pour someone Arabic coffee. Like you should be holding the, I'm sure you saw it, the small cup. It's called finjan in formal Arabic and it has to be holding the, I'm sure you saw it, the small cup. It's called finjan in formal Arabic.

And it has to be in the right so that when you hand it over to the guest, you hand it over with your right hand. You're not allowed to hand it over with your left hand. That's against cultural norms. My kids wouldn't be able to observe this

because I don't hold the majlis and the UAE on regular basis where I get guests where they can observe those behaviors and pick them up and be able to, but I try.

But do other Muslim countries look down on you because you've been losing certain things which probably doesn't sit well with their ideas?

It comes down to something. We are very clear when it comes to what we are doing without jeopardizing our faith. People who believe otherwise, and I'm being very general here, or even countries who believe otherwise,

then they should go back and question their own faith. We know our faith, we know our religion, we know our traditions, we know our cultural norms, and we uphold them to the highest standard, the best way possible, or the best way you can think of. And we are very clear when it comes to our moral compass.

You question all of that, or you don't believe it in one way or the other, when your foundation is not strong enough, you're not that confident in what you believe in. I don't think I can be more elaborate than this, but I think you get my point.

I get your point. Yeah, and this goes into everything, religion-wise, culture-wise. I mean, even you doing the podcast here, if you are not well-read, if you don't have enough knowledge,

if you're not exposed enough, you can do a podcast and you can have a conversation and you can ask questions, but if that all was not there, you can still hold your podcast, but guess what happens when they challenge anything you say?

You'll be shattered. You start running around trying to patch things up and trying to find whatever noises that you can put together.

I like the answer, by the way.

Great.

Generally, I like the answer.

I told you, I can be the, I do think I'm the least diplomatic person you've posted.

This is not diplomatic.

It's the truth. In Dubai, you're not allowed to hang, like you're not allowed to take your gunman's around, right?

The public in Dubai.

You're not supposed to, no. No, right? No matter who you are, how important you are. No, no, no. Guns are not allowed. No. Even if you have, for some reason or the other, like the license to own a weapon,

you're not supposed to have it in your pocket or in your car just walking out, unless you are of a security nature, security related.

Until there's a very high level clearance for you, you can't. Like you can't be a normal businessman with 20 bodyguards.

No, no. It's not allowed. No.

But if you work for the security apparatus of the country, then those are certain conditions. You have best top of the top infrastructure. You provide safety, security, which is way better than top countries in the world. In London, you can't be on the street wearing XYZ things or brands or something or you can't go in a car and people will just, people, locked car people just steal right in London this be the case. So you provide security, you provide infrastructure, there's everything free for a lot of people, then you have incredible largest

of the largest things. And then there's zero tax. Like, where's the money coming from?

So the model is different and unique. Some of the money obviously is coming from oil and gas, and there's a federal budget and there are local budgets. And then those federal entities, for example, they generate their own revenues. So if you look at Ministry of Foreign Affairs,

we get so much revenue from attestations of documents, commercial documents and other personal documents. And that revenue goes to the Ministry of Finance, Ministry of Finance, based on that, obviously, because they decide with the cabinet on the allocation for each ministry

when it comes to their budgets. So there are those sources of revenues that are being generated. At the local government level, they differ from one place to the other, but you have people, you have to pay, for example,

for setting up a trading license, you have to pay, for example, for setting up a trading license, you have to pay certain fees to get certain services connected or certain services provided, and all of this goes also into the local budget and from the local budget to the local expenditure.

Now, remember I told you about this property example and that I was able to get an evaluation done specifically the property, but I had to pay for that valuation. So that also goes into that kind of budget versus expenditure kind of thing.

So yes, there are so many things that you can, there are so many things that you experience and they are, like the infrastructure is great, safety is top-notch, and correct that all of this is at a cost, but this kind of money is also being generated from other kind of sources and they pay for that.

We're talking about income-generating activities. Correct. We're talking about revenue sources.

Yes.

If someone like me or someone in their 20s is watching this podcast right now, what would be the top three opportunities for them to make money in UAE today?

Real estate.

That goes without saying.

Isn't it saturated? Like too many big players enter. Now somebody who's in 20s doesn't have enough capital, we can't enter there and build like a real estate empire. Can we?

I'll be specific.

Yeah. Give me specific three opportunities which act as a playbook for me to just go and apply.

So there is now an application called Stake. MVA. What?

Stake.

Stake.

Okay. Where it's specifically designed for individuals who cannot buy whole properties. And you can go in with, it will sound like I'm advertising for them, but anyways, because that's how

one of the founders was talking about it. You can go in with as little as 500 dirhams and choose the property that you want to invest in. And then you actually get a-

Fractional ownership.

Fractional ownership certificate that you're owning this 1%, 2% or whatever of this property. And then you get rent being paid into your account and that gets accumulated, which you can reinvest or you can take out. So that you can do at whatever level of income,

no problem whatsoever. Second, the stock market. It has grown fantastically over the past few years. And there are quite a few stocks that you can buy at very reasonable prices that pay you very good dividends. Why am I able to tell you this?

Is because I get asked the same question from my cousins and family members to tell them if this is a good investment or a bad investment. So I've done some practice indirectly. And you have a finance economics background.

I'm also finance economics background. 20 year old could also start a business in the UAE. We do need more Indian brands in the UAE. It's good for someone to think about it and it's good for someone to do it. And the beauty of this is this can be done at scale with an amazing or like very cost efficient baseline that you can easily scale up and sell everywhere.

There's one more opportunity. I don't know if it's there in Dubai already or no. What I saw this time when I went, there's a huge sports culture. Like I was amazed by how every locality has hundreds of turfs for pickle, for paddle, for football,

for like every little thing and the culture is just...

And there's not even enough by the way.

Yeah, like everything is all time book. There's volleyball, there's basketball, there is batman and it's fascinating to see that the country has so many sports and so many is open out there for public.

Correct.

And everything is getting used by people. Right. There are groups for everything. And because I believe there is all the people who are coming and playing there, they're from different nationalities, from different places, they don't know each other. So they need groups and they need to start playing.

There's an app here in India.

Hazal?

Which, yeah. So you play Spotter, that's what it is.

I was going to tell you that another thing that they could do is develop an app. To book all of these places? To book all of those places. So we have that app here.

I didn't find anything there because I want to know all the listed places, how far they are and who's playing and if there's a spot or no, so I want to go book it.

Is there something like that?

There's one that I used a couple of times called Playtomic, I think. If I remember correctly, I haven't played Paddle in a while, but that was the app that, if I'm not mistaken, we were using when we went to book a Paddle Ten score to be able to go and play. Like in India we have Huddle. Yeah.

So something like that. There are other apps, but I believe this is the most popular one. So I like Huddle because of, obviously they have access of a lot of places. So I found it interesting.

If there's something people can build, maybe they should.

When I first came to India, I was someone who never played cards. And now I have a daily majlis, and I have people coming in, game of cards, and we watch games, if there's any game online, like taking place or live on TV.

We watch the World Cup, for instance, when the World Cup, because when I first came, it was World Cup time. And obviously dinner and so on. So it also changed certain things in me because of being here, and that's where I understand

the importance of it, being in the UE, because it's very easy to have that dream of wanting to go to the UE and coming to the UE, but when you can find common groups, not necessarily of the same nationality, it can be really tough. What's the future? What are the craziest things that you guys are doing next?

Tell me top three craziest projects that you're doing next. Maybe in 2030, 2040, 2050, we'll get to know. Because we get to hear all sorts of stuff, right? There's a Mars simulation that's getting built, there's a temperature control city that you guys are building, there's a cloud seeding which is happening, there's artificial rain which will come. I don't know what all is true and what is not. Cloud seeding is happening, which is why you would see, you know, suddenly there's a lot

of rain coming to the UAE. And this would always be the case. So that's one. Two, there is this, and that I probably also need to verify, but the Hyperloop conversation has been started again.

Now, whether it's going to happen or not, that's also another question, but then this means you have much shorter travel time between different Emirates and the UAE. Flying taxis, are they coming? They're happening, yes.

The other thing is, and this I couldn't verify either, but I saw an announcement that residents of the UE would be given premium access to chat GPT, free of charge. I was trying to verify this on my way here and I couldn't verify it,

but it's one of those things circulating around as well.

What's the difference between a business conference

in Delhi versus Bombay? The people are different. The backgrounds that you get are very different. It seems like there are more entrepreneurs here compared to Delhi. So there's nothing wrong with that,

but it's just that when you're here, you can feel the startup ecosystem. You know, you can see it. It's very clear, it's very evident. I've been to other places, like I've been to Hyderabad, they had this tech startup cluster.

I've been to Chennai, I've been to other places. Nothing beats Mumbai when it comes to this. And the ideas, the thoughts, the kind of businesses that you have. It seems to me that the only problem is scaling it up. Like you have a great idea,

you have established your base here in India. How can you take it now to the next step? I think this is what they find the challenge with, because you can sell in India, but there's also a very specific limit on the pricing that you can charge, right? It's just normal because of the market. And then they know that the natural step is going into the UAE, but then a few of them wouldn't know what's the best way to do it.

And a few, if they do it, like yesterday one of the questions that they had was, how do we make sure that the brand is there? Like, okay, we are here, we have the store, we have the shop, or we have the bars, but how can we make sure that the clientele,

the residents of the UAE are aware of it? And so the marketing that you need to do is very different than what you would do in India.

There's also a culture of gifting in UAE. A lot of people, it's, I think it's very cultural that you keep giving a lot of gifts to a lot of people.

And India too. And India as well. Like, it's very rare for anyone.

Yeah, like Asian countries seen in UAE, it's way more. I think people find it, I don't know, is it in the culture or is it because people don't know each other so they wanna greet and be extra nice to each other? I have no idea, but there's a lot of people gifting a lot of stuff to each other.

It's part of the culture. There's a thing, which I'm pretty sure very applicable for certain individuals, maybe not for everyone, but let's assume like you see me, like you like my coffee mug, right? And you say, oh, nice mug.

And we say something in Arabic that means, you know, it's yours, you can have it.

Yeah.

What I would do as Abdel Nasser, and you're someone that I care about, we're friends, or like we are, like there is some sort of friendship there, I would get you one without you even asking for it. And that could go to a certain extent also to more expensive things than the coffee mug.

But it depends also on the individuals and obviously their capacity. And obviously there are others who would like, if you like the car that I drive, I'm like, oh, nice car. That's yours, you wouldn't take it, right?

And then I wouldn't send you a car next day. Okay, not how it works. But you get my point.

But I've seen that happen. I've seen that happening with bunch of people with the watches.

Okay.

And it looked really expensive watches. Somebody's wearing it. Someone said it in front of me, oh, it's a nice watch. And the other guy was like, it's yours. And the other was like, no, no, no, no, no, I didn't need, no, it's yours. I genuinely, I would love it if you have it.

If you like it, you keep it. And I was like, I should have complimented.

Yeah, so.

I was like, I'm late.

Yes, yes but very possible. Do you think that happened when Trump said, oh, nice plane? I mean, the culture allows for it.

And you're like, yeah, you go have it.

The culture allows for it. You never know. But the culture does allow. You could compliment something, and yeah, it's yours.

There's often word I've heard in UAE, vasta.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah? Nepotism basically. Nepotism is one way of the word.

Does it work?

Like in India we call it jack approach. Okay. Right? Like you have a jack, you have an approach somewhere. In UAE I've heard that if you have strong vasta then things get really easy for you. Does it work?

Like if I know somebody at some place and I have a connection with them and they are at the hierarchy of nepotism somewhere, it works for me?

If the system allows for it. So no rules will be broken to accommodate such a request.

How does UAE allow people to have lions and tigers as pets?

Allow is a big word, and the misrepresentation of what's happening. People have ways to be able to bring those animals. Are they taking care of them? Are they looking after them? Or are they making a joke out of those animals?

Or like we have all seen videos where they would see the tiger or the lion walking around between individuals and so on. This is not supposed to happen.

One of the most fascinating things which I read during my research, you have something called Ministry of Possibilities.

Yeah.

What is that?

It's an office in Emirates. Have you seen, do you know Emirates Towers? They're also at the... Jumeirah? Yeah, so it's the start of Sheikh Zayed Road. Museum of Future.

It's there, yeah. There's an office there, and the idea was that officials can come from different entities and be able to solve issues that they think are impossible to solve or that they think they can't find solutions for.

And believe it or not, a lot of work can be done when you bring all of those officials in one place, from the federal level or from the local level. Which is why in the same place we also see there's government accelerators for example. So that speeds up the process.

Ministry of Possibilities is where you figure out very difficult problems.

What are the benefits of being an Emirati? And what are the differences between an Emirati and a non-Emirati living in UAE? What perks do Emiratis get?

We do get certain allowances. There is now this huge drive to get people married and have more kids. It's quite fascinating because this was also a discussion that we had a few years back when we were discussing genetic testing.

And the idea is to have, you know, like when you have, each emirate has its own, now policy when it comes to this, but like you get certain support when it comes to your wedding expenses. You also get certain support when it comes to your wedding expenses. You also get certain support when it comes to getting the plot of land and building that plot of land

so that the financing that goes with it, those perks are there for Emiratis. And usually the, well, the plot of land is free and you also get interest-free loan to build that land. And if you need additional financing, you can get it also at good rates.

But is every Emirati rich?

No.

Why this misconception that everybody with UAE passport would be ultra rich, like you guys, everybody's from a royal family, everybody's a sheikh.

See, I can use also a personal story here. I grew up with different circumstances. And I, when I got my first job and started making money, or that was my salary and so on, there was always something that I needed to take care of.

Know what I want and eat. And I was also looking after my mother and then my mother retired. So in my case, I first helped in getting her house done so that she can have a house that she owns and she doesn't have to worry about moving

from one rental place to another. And then I had, for example, to build my own house. I have kids to look after. So it always seemed like there's always something that I needed to take care of. Doesn't mean I'm not better and more comfortable now.

But that didn't just happen because I was born in the UAE. It happened because I worked really hard, I wanted to always develop personally and professionally, make more money by investing whatever that I'm getting, the bonuses I get because of my work. Like if you get a certain valuation,

you get a bonus every year. And lately I was recognized and awarded because of my work in the UAE-India relationship. And like this started last year, so the top 10 ambassadors. This year I was one of them.

And I got a medal and I got a monetary award. And so the next thing, like-

Congratulations, by the way.

Thank you so much. And like the medal, you get it once in a lifetime, as a civilian.

And you got it.

And I got it. Believe it or not, the first thing that came to my mind is my mother was still paying for the housing financing that she got because that's the long-term one. Like you pay it over 20, 25 years. And it wasn't much, but it was taking out of her pension

on a monthly basis. And I know that this could still be a thorn. Like it's a thorny thing when you have to think that there's something. And I'm not saying this to position myself like I'm the good son, I'm far from that.

But the first thing that came to my mind is to go and settle that for her. Her birthday was a couple of weeks back. And I sent her flowers. I was, I can't remember where I was. And a message that says, you know,

nice stuff, stuff that you should say to your mother. And she said something that basically meant, I really hope your kids do for you what you have done for me. And I don't think I would have wished for a better prayer, especially when you live through life

believing that every single good thing that is happening to you is because of her prayers and because of my grandmother's prayers, because she has raised me as well, and because my father also has done so much

to invest in my education and to make me the person that I am by getting me into his business and prepping me for life's challenges and allowing me to resolve his issues. So I think that's everything that I wanted to achieve because if I manage to get that,

to make her feel that, it's more important than anything else. How sweet.

You must be a proud son and your parents also proud.

I hope so. I really hope so. Express that. Again, I don't want to take it for granted because I have it and don't get me wrong. I mean, I was also fortunate through my career

and having all kinds of opportunities presented to me. You know, the Deputy Prime Minister, Foreign Minister, he's not just my boss, but we are also friends. And if it wasn't for him, I wouldn't have developed career-wise to where I am today. I mean, the first couple of years I was in his office,

traveling the world, barely being seen by anyone. And when I walked in, I was the finance economics guy. And he made sure that I become someone that understands national relations and politics. And he was the one who proposed that I go to India when I did not think about being

posted as a Kareem because this was not my path. And even when I joined the ministry, this was not the idea that I had in mind. And today being in India is the best thing that ever happened to me career-wise. Well, perfect. Thank you so much for sharing your story and all my questions answering them so calmly and gracefully. Thank you so much. Thank you so much.

Thank you. It's been great. It's a pleasure having you here. Likewise. Looking forward to more conversation the next time we're in Bombay. I'll take you to the cooler side which probably your protocol. You know and when you're in Dubai we go for a HIIT workout.

Yes, we'll do that. I'm looking forward to it.

Hi. Hello. Nice to meet you. Pleasure meeting you. Please have a seat. I can help this you? Yes, yes you can. How are you doing? Very good.

Do you carry your water and coffee everywhere?

Yes, so not because well because one time I had someone come into my office in Delhi and they saw the water and they're like oh so you don't drink Indian water you get your own water I'm like no no no it's just water with electrolytes it's Indian water but with electrolytes. Thank you

so much for watching this episode till the end. Now you have to do three things. First of all, subscribe to this channel because the more you subscribe, the better and and better guests we can bring for you. Number 2, tell me in the comments what you liked and what you didn't like in this episode so that we don't repeat those mistakes. And which guests do you want to see on our podcast again? So that we can bring them and give you more value.

And number 3, do share this episode with at least one person because one conversation can change someone's life. because one conversation can change someone's life. I'll see you next time. Until then, keep figuring out.