John Cena’s first interview after retiring | What Do You Wanna Talk About? With Cody Rhodes

Hello, it's the American Nightmare,

Cody Rhodes, undisputed WWE Champion. Welcome to what do you wanna talk about a fanatics and WWE original production. Today, the podcast is happening but it's not at WWE's warehouse. It's not at my home away from home, my tour bus. It is actually at the world famous Nightmare Factory in Atlanta, Georgia. And that is at the request of our guest.

And I think that's going to become a thing. Ladies and gentlemen, our guest today is the Never Seen 17. He is the greatest of all time. He is one of my close and personal friends. He, star of stage, screen, film, everything you could possibly think of. Future Hall of Famer, Mount Rushmore wrestler.

My gosh, ladies and gentlemen, please welcome to what do you want to talk about? John Cena.

Oh.

Oh.

Oh. So we do one of these? We can do one of those talk about? John Cena. Oh, bro.

So we do one of these? We can do one of those right out of the gate.

Do we explain what we have?

Well, let's get a cheers.

Hold on, you call it. What are we drinking to?

Oh, well, that's easy. These are your very first remarks since retirement, which I know you had that choice. And I thank you very much for choosing us to do this here. So here's to tipping it back at 9 a.m. There it is and it is 9 a.m. I have a American Mule brought to

you by Wheatley Vodka. You sir have what? You can't sip me. Oh! So this is a couple hits of Wheatly, a little bit of seltzer water, some lemon juice, some simple syrup on ice. Make sure it's cold. It's quite refreshing. Yeah. You can't really taste anything. It's got hints of citrus. It's like a cold glass of Wake Up. Not to be confused with an Oakerland. An Oakerland is literally a vodka cranberry where you just whisper the word cranberry over about 16 ounces of vodka. RIP Mean Gene. Let me let me full stop on the Oakerland. Oakerland? Yeah. As in Mean Gene

Oakerland? This is... Is there another? There is not. The legendary Mean Gene has currently still has his own drink at a golf course called Gator Creek down Sarasota. When you go into Gator Creek and order an Oakerland, they give you a 16 ounce foam cup. They dip it in ice so it's to the brim. They pour vodka to the last rung on the cup.

They take cranberry juice, they put a dab on their finger, and they put it in there just so it makes the whole thing like a reddish color. Yeah. And then you go out and play 18 holes.

This is not the question that I was gonna ask you right away. Yeah. But with such a-

That is good.

Verbose, descriptive, and accurate description of what the Oakland was in Sarasota, Florida at Gator- Gator Creek. At Gator Creek, okay, at Gator Creek. Do you find that-

Did I add one too many down there? Yes, I did.

Admitted. Admitted. So he's not denying it, folks. Do you find that everything you encounter in your life that you enjoy, hobbies, professions, whatever it may be, I'm asking this because having watched you and studied you for as long as I have. Do you find that you have to know every detail

and be a master of the things you like and enjoy? No, because I'm far from that.

Well, you're far ahead of many others.

I'm gonna give you an example. Again, this probably is not what you're expecting at 9 a.m. over a you-can't-sit-me. Man, I'm going to give you an example. Again, this probably is not what you're expecting at 9am over a you can't sip me conversation. And that's basically just saying don't don't take a pull off my drink. Yeah, so get you your own. You're I am very happy this American Mule I am curious, can you potentially dial me up but you can't sit me? Or is that the

one Oh, 9am. Here we go we go cricket wireless I was gonna say by

the way do you are a monster you came home after a double taping of raw you have one day free and not even a day I'm like man I can do this today you're like I can do it morning or evening and I foolishly chose morning but here you are ready to go and you got a commercial, a full day commercial shoot after this. Thanks, man.

Cheers to that.

Cheers to that.

Cheers to knowing what it takes, knowing what the word hustle is.

Cheers to that.

Indeed.

You were about to give me an anecdote, and boy do I love it.

No, it was more of, when I, I've watched a lot of things that you've done in interviews, because you're always really specific and measured about where you land, who you talk to, especially as you've experienced more and more of a career. And you value your time. Time is such a great currency.

It is the most important thing. I saw you explain to a group, I believe they're called Bon Appetit, what a flat white was, and I don't think I could ever see something that was more a direct reflection on how you were as a wrestling teacher. As a wrestling teacher, you never just said, hey, kid, this is the thing.

You never just said, hey kid, this is the thing. You never just said it once. You made it so clear that the next time you went out, you could not miss whatever the lesson was. And now I've watched you go in on this flat white and I actually timed it. It's a little over three minutes

of you explaining coffee first, this is milk with two shots of espresso. It's so you that coffee first, this is milk, with two shots of espresso. It's so you that I wondered, does he, the things he liked, does he just need to know every single detail, every aspect of them?

Or is this just, are you just loving life that you gotta know it all? Because that, all it reminded me of is every single great lesson that I am valued to have learned from you. But they were taught in a way

that if you make the same mistake again, issue.

Well, so, interesting observation, right? In every level of anything, there's always somebody above you. And I don't know in your observations, if you've seen this, but I try never to be the smartest person in the room. What I, the information I give about coffee, or about wrestling, there are, you know, online

hosts, critics, even people who lace boots, that are are far more you're far more into wrestling than I am But I know what I love about wrestling So when I it's all opinion of its chicken soup business your way is different than my way is different than you know Whoever likes it is entertained by it But when people ask of my advice and when I get a chance to rub up against people you know when we have matches and do stuff,

I give the information between my two ears on what I enjoy. My description of a flat white is what I enjoy about the drink. Yeah. I enjoy that it's not as much milk as a latte,

but not as small as a cappuccino. Like, there's a lot of stuff. But if you talk to somebody like Seth yeah, or Cesaro They will be like the beans are roasted from here And this is and then cured at this place and grown from this place, and that's where you lose me, okay? So okay wrestling for example you will spit out facts dates moves spots

Yeah, I don't remember any of that shit. I just try to say, like, what I love about this, and I just came to this epiphany like a few days ago. We have a conversation. You get to go out there and have a conversation with tens of thousands, sometimes hundreds of thousands of people.

And when I get most agitated is when performers talk at the audience. They don't allow the conversation. And all the old school guys would be like, slow the fuck down. It's difficult to conceptualize. I understand I understand what all the old-timers were saying,

especially because here I am retired. I am one. But I also understand from a new talent, the angst of like, no, you don't get the product now because you worked slow. Sometimes a new talent can look at that piece of feedback and be like, it's just you work lazy because Because you're old and you can't take bumps.

I like the comparison of we are out there to have a conversation. And we got, what, an hour and 15? We're gonna talk. You're gonna talk. I'm gonna talk.

But if you talk at me for an hour and 15, I love you, dog, but I'll check out at 45. I'll hang in there, but I'll check out. And a lot of performers, they go out there and they just talk at the audience. They never give them a chance to get into the conversation. So all of my feedback is based on, like, let's

never forget the conversation.

Yeah.

And to have a good conversation, we've got to have good material, which means we have to have a good story. I can go three minutes about a flat white because I've tried a ton of coffee and I've found what I love. And it's like when you take that first sip, you're like, man, I found it. Yeah.

I love cars. But when I talk to people about cars, there's always somebody smarter. Yeah. When I talk to people about cars, there's always somebody smarter. Yeah, you know the engine stampings and the day code on a 71 Cuda?

No.

I just like the purple one.

Looks good.

And it drives fun. And this is how I feel when I'm behind the wheel. It's not that. The way you put together a suit. There are certain lines that I'm like, ah, man, I don't do all the details.

I like this, I like a little bit of loud, this is seasonal. You might have had some influence on my choice today. I wanted to bring my A game. But that's it. And there's always someone who can go more. And I think if you're at the top of the hill,

you gotta get in a different room.

Interesting.

So it seems like I might have a lot of information. It's just like, hey, I found this epiphany. It's this thing I love. This is why I love it.

But to your point, I think the reason, and you said it, there's always somebody else out there. I don't think a lot of people think that way. And I think very similar. We have a joke in my little group that's traveling all around. I've got the champions of crush, the gripper.

Yeah. Turning those forearms into five arms.

Five arms, yeah.

As you used to say. And I always joke about it. I'll say, hey, get a squeeze. We're joking, but what really is going through my mind is there's another guy. Maybe he's at NXT. There's another wrestler.

Maybe he's on an independent level. There's someone out there who would like the spot. And this is more on the spirit of competition and not knowledge, but I wanna make sure I'm gonna do in this random, hey, I'm here working out at 3 AM. I'm doing something consistently to try and keep myself in the game and keep it at bay. Whoever that person is, it's completely different than the individual who's out

there who has more knowledge, I suppose. But it's similar in a way that I just enjoy that you get into the details on so many things that you love and enjoy. But you said something, cuz again, these are your first remarks since retirement.

Yeah.

Chose to make them here at the world famous Nightmare Factory. I love this, man. I hope you don't move. I hope you do every broadcast from here. WWID facility, by the way. Yes. I mean, you want to get this as a gateway drug to Orlando, which is the gateway drug

to playing for the Yankees, as we say. As a gateway drug. You said you had an epiphany. Yeah. About what you love.

Are you saying the conversation in. About what you love. Are you saying the conversation in terms of what you loved about wrestling, you're talking about, I love all these little things here and there. But what is it that you found? And I mean more so, and I'm sorry if this is so immediate. I think more after retirement, which is at this moment, a day and a half removed.

Yep.

What do you love about it?

Well, so the epiphany was crazy, right? And it's just an example of like, let's never stop learning. So I'm a, this is Friday. I get this, like, holy shit, I found a way to say what I'm actually feeling. I was just reading through a book,

and, you know, it was about the ability to have fierce conversations. And you want to let everybody contribute. You want to have a conversation. And they were talking about, like, the power of the pause and the silence, essentially slowing down.

Sure, sure. It's those moments where you do action. It's your piece of the conversation. And then you slow down to allow the arena to have their piece of the conversation. I'm like, holy shit.

I think I can finally articulate what's up here to a Javon Evans at 21 years old.

Yeah.

Be like, Javon, if I talk to you for 45 minutes, you're not going to care. But if we can talk, if you can tell me what's on your mind, and I can talk to you, and then maybe we both walk away having grown a little bit. Yeah.

Just make sure you do that in your matches. You know what I'm saying? Where I don't have to say, slow down, kid. you're going too fast. That immediately puts you on the defensive. Slow down. You can't keep up, old man. It's not about that. It's you're going to feel it when you feel it. But now you've got a chip on your shoulder to prove me wrong

and prove working fast is going to work. And I'm not saying it doesn't. I'm just saying just make sure you always have a conversation with them out there. You know what I'm saying? And that happened the day before I retired. So what I love about it is like, you're learning all the time, all the time.

That's all.

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It's free on iOS and Android. With Affirm and Fanatics, now every fan can own their moment. Subject to eligibility, terms apply. I wanna ask you about two different faces. Sure.

Two different faces. One is the Elimination Chamber. Sure. Where we in the industry would say you turned heel. Yep. The other is the final moment

of your pro wrestling career. Yep. Where you were in Gunther's submission hold. Thank you so much. Yeah, throwing it. There we go.

9am. All right. And the end had come. I feel there's maybe a deeper meaning. I'm juxtaposing these photos against each other and there's a deeper meaning to the face and the story you told with your face,

which in wrestling, especially you mentioned the old timers and the legends, your face, that's your money. It's not a lie at all. It's how we articulate things to the audience as a pro wrestler, even if we don't have the cameras and the trons and the walls, the great old school pantomime.

That face that night in Toronto in the Elimination Chamber versus the smile to a degree that came over your face at the very end, Saturday night's main event against Gunther again, this is immediately fresh, retirement was a day ago. What's the story of those two faces?

So I think that matters, but I don't know how much it matters.

Hmm.

Here's-here's what I've learned over the years, and-and we've had some time to work together. Yeah. So I think you'll be, as I say this, you'll be able to maybe reflect upon moments we've had or-or moments you've had and-and put some truth to it.

I always attack things from a what's the story? What is our why? Why are we doing this?

Yes.

You have to start out with why you're painting the picture. The unfortunate thing is, you then put your art out for the public. And what I've learned over the years is, you then put your art out for the public. And what I've learned over the years is, once you put your art out, it is no longer yours.

Understood.

It's not.

So you can ask me what I was thinking. And now you have, you look at the artist's painting and it's like you're walking through a gallery and the artist is right there. And I'm gonna tell you what I'm thinking, but what I'm thinking matters little

because of the overwhelming conversation that the public has. Maybe, just maybe, I'll give a guideline to some folks out there, and it'll help curate their experience. But just because I set out to do something, now it's in the public's hands,

and the public views it how they want. Of course.

Certainly, I'll work backwards. Yeah.

Uh, well, fuck, I'll try to lean into it all. Um, the, the 15 months I'm announcing my retirement, we have a year left, 18 months, is literally a chronicle of the cycle of life. of a year left, 18 months, is literally a chronicle of the cycle of life. Like, it is an individual towards the end of their life announcing that, hey, I'm going to go.

Yeah. And I really thought a lot about what I've been able to be lucky enough to be a part of here. And then the change in demeanor, when I kicked you in the nuts was easy. I am known for smiling in the face of adversity.

Sure.

In the face of polarization, taking it all in stride, not taking myself too seriously. And then you make this announcement, and then you have a six-month pause, and then you have Jan 6 into it, where it's like, all right, we're going to have some fun.

And then you have Rumble, and I come so close. Going into Rumble, the story is like, just happy to be here. I want to make out the year in one piece. And then I almost win. And I lose because of stupid confidence. I hit the mat not selling upright and look back

and be like, I almost had it. So then I get an opportunity in the press conference to let people know that I'm serious, I'm goal focused, I want to win that again. I've changed my perspective. This is not a farewell handshake tour,

flash forward to elimination chamber. And this is how the business works. And I know this is forever the critical discussion outside of the confines of people who said, I want you to do this, that own the thing. They wanted to make Elimination Chamber a moment.

I get it. The business is about making moments. There's nothing wrong with that. You don't always have to have a nine-month trajectory. You can understand that, like, yo, we got a ton of eyes on tonight.

Yeah.

Let's do something impactful, and then you as artists can run through the maze and figure it out. Yeah. So in February, they just wanted to make a moment. And they asked me to be part of it. Holy hell, what a challenge to me creatively.

So the loss of that good side at all costs to get that was easy to explain. And when we all talked about it, the one detail I made, I'll do whatever the fuck you guys want, just stay on the face for longer than you think. Yeah. One thing I said.

It's going to feel weird. Just stay.

Yeah.

Flash forward to the end. I envisioned something beautiful. Saturday far exceeded whatever was in my heart and soul. Yeah. So I know I'm out there one last time. They had to move the side ramps in to put more seats.

And it almost was like a fire hazard to go down the ramp.

Okay.

You cannot fit any more. I know it's an old wrestler story, but I'm setting the stage for why I was so filled with joy. You can't fit any more people in there.

Yeah.

So going up to this event, I made sure everyone I talked to, all the podcasts I did, I'm like, hey, I know you may not think I'm gonna retire. I am. I'm comfortable with that. Please just get the closure you need.

So now I'm out there. They hate the guy I'm working with. They universally cheer me. That is fucking rare. And for the last five minutes, everything I preach about story and drama and having a conversation

with the audience, the ones I love are in the front row. I know my colleagues are watching on the monitor back there. We're just in a sleeper hole, man.

Yeah, Ed Koskey brought that up.

We're just in a sleeper hole.

Sleeper for sleeper.

But we're having that conversation with the audience.

Yeah.

So as I essentially take my last breath, I have struggled. If you think of somebody, the natural cause of scenario or however we picture loss in our life, all of us have been through it. They struggle, they struggle, they struggle, they hang on just long enough to make sure to say goodbye

to everybody that's been meaningful in their lives. And that whole day was so many unbelievably vulnerable, meaningful conversations. And then you realize I've connected with everybody I love.

Yeah.

Physically, I feel great.

Hm.

Uh, I think it's time to take that last breath.

Yeah.

And that's that, that's that, um, I hate to keep going back morbidly to obituaries, but like, this person died peacefully.

Yeah, he faced death with a smile.

Yes, and knowing that like, man, we are in a good place, we're gonna be great going forward, and this is literally, like the bottom of the T-shirt says I gave everything, thank you for everything.

Yeah.

And that, in that one moment, that was that going peacefully. So the whole tour, the year story, for me, is just the cycle of someone facing the end of their life, the struggles they go with. I got a raw deal. I want this one more time.

This will make me happy. This will make me live forever. And then realizing like, oh, I've kind of been a prick and gone against my values. And having a good person, somebody you know and love, be like, man, this isn't you, dog.

Let's do it the right way. Which connects to our why and helps us tell the story and have a conversation with the audience. Yeah. And then moments with colleagues that I have history with.

Yeah.

Tributes to everybody I've shared canvas with or as many people as I could squeeze in in one match before we had to take it home.

Yeah.

New competitors, so you can pass on the wisdom and knowledge. Heck, the deal in San Diego where we ran everybody who bought a ticket into the ring practically and can get as many people around that element is like, man, I only have a few more matches left to call. Can we run 27 people down so they can just at least hear the noise? And then to honestly to be honored to be in there with somebody who takes

the mat as sacred, yeah. I don't care who likes or doesn't like Gunther. Respect is a core value. It's hard and pure, and he is all about this 20 by 20 box. And whether he does it my way, a wise man once said, just because it's the way John does it, doesn't mean it's the way it needs to be done.

And I got the utmost respect for him. So that's kind of the... That's what I'm trying to do. and I got I got the utmost respect for him so that's kind of the that's the that's what the artist was thinking when painting the picture right the audience didn't necessarily get that and nine times out of ten Cody you know they don't even need to get it but if you go in with no story yeah and nothing in here and nothing in here you

just you just do a fucking stunt show. Yeah.

You know? You said something that really, really struck me. Because I was hoping, I thought maybe I'm right, maybe it was. He faced death with a smile and he had done-

Obi Wan Kenobi.

100%, 100%. But you said something about San Diego that I think speaks to your, how much you wanted modern WWE. But you said something about San Diego that I think speaks to your, how much you wanted modern WWE and its talent and its roster to get the rub and experience something maybe they hadn't experienced. You said let's run everybody down just so that they can hear the noise.

That specific noise is for you because you elicit a very unique response from our audience and have the most unique connection with them. I don't know if it's my place to say it, but I can say thank you for a bazillion things, but I can say thank you just for saying that. Because again, you might say you did have to, but you didn't.

You certainly didn't. Just the idea of letting these run-ins happen and these moments take place in Petco Park so they can feel what that feels like. Because it's not just a matter of, hey, here's a gift. You feel it now.

The gift is, oh, no, I know what to do in this moment. I was there once. They might do this, they might, you never get that experience unless you really feel it, which is we talk about it all the time on this podcast,

the lack of live events in our no longer, we go out there and go off of old experience, but for the new guys, how will they get those moments? How will they know, hey, this worked, this feeling, this moment. I think I can get, and these are when the stakes are far less than a giant

retirement tour with an Intercontinental Championship on the line as it was in Petco. I think that's a really wonderful thing to hear.

I wanna lean into something you said though.

Yeah.

I always try to be coachable. Yeah. And I could be in the thought school of thought of like you need 200 live events a year. No we don't because that's not where we're at. Right. So again there's what the artist tries to paint and there's what the artist tries to paint, and there's what the audience interprets. Yeah. What the artist is trying to paint is essentially, yes, let's get people to hear the noise,

but the message I really tried to hammer home to new talent was, I am on my way out. This would be the easy way to do it. Yeah. I want you to know that I am on my way out, this would be the easy way to do it. Yeah. I want you to know that I am making brave, courageous decisions that will have polarizing and critical

feedback. And I am still trying to fail. I am desperately trying to fail on my way out the door. Yeah. So we could bitch and complain about a system that is archaic and doesn't exist. Yeah.

Or I could influence people to say, you got 52 live events this year.

Yeah.

Do not be afraid to fail on camera. Interesting. Be a little more surgical about that if you're first and if you're last. Sure. Be a little more surgical. Yeah. if you're last, be a little more surgical. But if you were in a spot to take a big swing, and

this is what I did with everybody I faced, you and me at WrestleMania. Hey, we're gonna try something different. We're gonna take a big swing. And holy shit, was it criticized. But I wasn't gonna just go out there and do the easy thing. I wanted to paint a different picture.

And then just listen to what the audience says and we go from there. And your trust and faith in me knowing that, my God, every wrestler uses WrestleMania as the end of their book. And me being like, dude, it's like the beginning. We got another three and a half months, and I promise you we're going to build.

Yeah. And then just kind of meandering those waters, because we do the thing. And then the day after we do the thing, everybody's like, hey, so all the stuff we talked about, that's out.

Right.

And thank goodness you're of the same mindset. We're like, okay, so what are we doing now?

Yeah.

Let's pick six, let's get out in the field and go again. You know, but I guess a message I was trying to send to the professionals I was working with, I talk about failure so often. Don't be afraid to fail. A lot of folks would be like, easy for you to say,

everything you do is a fucking hit. No, it's not. Everything I do is criticized at such a microscopic surgical level.

Yeah.

But it will not stop me from failing.

Yeah.

So like, we'd get, do you think they'll buy this? You and me sitting high atop New York City figuring shit out and be like, do you think they'll buy it? And man, I thought- What a way to call a match, by the way.

What a way to call a match.

My goodness. In the most beautiful building. I'm only giving you the in, the, just, I'm showing you the exit sign to the inside.

Do you mind if I elaborate slightly on?

This is our conversation, bud.

We want to talk. You called me to your unbelievable high rise in Manhattan overlooking Central Park, which I don't think I'd ever even seen like that. And you just said, let's get a cigar. And this place has a burger too. And I was amazed that we did have a cigar or two and tried various spirits. But somehow in there an entire story and match was talked about in a way that if

that was the only conversation, I would have known exactly what we were doing in the ring the next day. It was, I couldn't have asked for a better way to, we're actually talking, we're talking about the match now. It was just a wonderful experience, I got a good picture from it. This message is sponsored by Raycon. Keep your ears open and your holiday playlist rolling

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Just click the link in the description or go to buyraycon.com slash roads open to save on Raycon audio products site-wide. I got a slight disagree with you two. I got a slight disagree. And as someone who considers himself under your tutelage for a long time,

maybe the live events are archaic. But I like a little archaic. Maybe that's counterproductive, but you remember some of these places? I mean, for people who don't know the full story, I was a little bit like a driver. I drove you around.

You, like you said, you can't take the big swings when you're first or you're last. Often the live events were you as the main event, maybe against Randy Orton. And it made it so that we in the middle could take some big swings and have some unique finishes and try some fun, fun, fun stuff. Because we were set with what was happening at the end of the night,

that they were gonna get a consistent, awesome moment, their money's worth plus. And that gave us the license. I remember wrestling Carlito, wrestling all kinds of different people throughout that first part of my career and always different, trying something new. Arn Anderson, who's someone who you've had helping you throughout your career,

saying try this tonight or do this and we short time but what about this? And I loved taking those swings but I also even though from a business standpoint, which you've always approached everything as such a businessman, which I want to talk about in a second. I still think there's a piece of fun and morale that actually leans into the business side of it.

I'm not disagreeing with you, right? I think the arduous travel is not a good thing nor a bad thing. It's a thing. It has pros and cons. Everything you stated certainly weeds out folks who don't want to be there. That's right. You earn every cent. Yeah.

There's a lot that is different now about the business, but you're not wrong.

Yeah.

But who cares? That's not what we do. No, no, it is not. So either I'm stuck in a place that I wish was and is no longer a thing.

Yes.

Or we just, where are we at now? And you say, oh man, the live events were fun because we take a big swing. Every time they turn the cameras on, it's a live event. True. I never treat any event other than a live event.

And when I hear people say, oh, we used to do this at live events, my knee-jerk reaction is, well, what is tonight?

Yeah, there's a live audience.

It's a television audience. It's a live event. And if the audience is apathetic, I don't care how good you think your story is, it's not good. Yeah. You want the live event. And I, through having a ton of reps, so I, you know,

my training is with a ton of time under tension in front of live audiences, but I treat everything like a live event.

Sure.

Here's a knock against live events. I would see performers like you and people in the middle go out and have fun on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. And on Monday, they would lose everything they learned and just do a surgical, bland, storyless performance because they knew they were on television. Right.

And they never took any of the wisdom or any of the fun they had and put it in here when the cameras were on.

Yeah.

What I was grateful enough to have was teachers and mentors who were like, Saturday is no different than Monday. Remember why the people got energized.

Sure.

It's because you did this goofy thing. And if you're not brave enough to put the goofy thing on TV, put the emotion you had doing the goofy thing on TV. And they'll believe. So we are where we are now. And we need to somehow let everybody know that, like,

hey, what you do is beautiful and athletic and strong and like unbelievable. But the way they can attach to you is by knowing who you are. And we gotta do that with, it would be very difficult for me, especially looking at the business model

and the success of the business, to go into Connecticut and petition for 220 live events a year.

Yeah.

So that's not what we have. Hey, you have The Rock and Travis Scott. Awesome, we can plan all this stuff. Hey, you don't have those two guys anymore. Not once, not once did you and I ever have, not once the whole world has had this conversation

about like, what would it have been like if the two guys in it with their dick in the dirt, not once had a conversation about, man, what would it have been like if we had those guys?

Yeah.

No, it was like, okay, what now? What do we do now? Yeah. So when I hear you say like, man, I do like this and I wish it was like this, if I could give you any more advice, it's not anymore. It's not.

We have this.

So you're in a position though where like, people watch you because of this. You never know who's learning what from you. Sure. And if you go around back there romanticizing about days that don't exist anymore...

Yeah. ...that creates a culture that romanticizes about shit that doesn't exist, and that's bad.

So they don't need to know about the Dirty 30? No, I think they can. They don't need to know about...

I think they can. They don't need to know about. I think they can. Because that's more my romance. I think they can, but the great thing about those stories is whenever you get a chance, if you have a layover after a double show in London or you do Japan or wherever, that's when you can have a moment, a sunset of fraternity. And then tell those stories about like, this is why we do this.

I brought my first road cooler in for 16 years.

I'll just back it, cause you're getting into this road cooler talk. The Dirty 30 was a case of beer.

As soon as we landed.

As soon as we landed on ice, but then there was also a backup, an emergency. Yeah. There was at all times three of us in a car pretty much. Yeah. Obviously nobody's drinking and driving here, so I was allowed one Labatt Blue Light earlier in the evening. Post-match.

Post-match. And then the cooler was often consumed.

That's why we had the emergency.

And we still, one of the great things, I was actually talking about this on my bus last night. One of the great things about it was the party and the cool of the evening. It was all there, but then we were still up the next morning. Is today a work day? Are we working today?

Then we'll be working out today.

Owls, eagles, buddy.

Then, yeah.

You wanna fly with the owls, you soar with the eagles.

Oh my gosh. One more time, if you wanna fly with the owls,

soar with the eagles. That means you're up all night and first one up in the morning. I love it. And those were lessons that were taught to me. But again, the people before me lived their life a certain way. I live my life a certain way.

And you want to talk about always evolving, right? So I put together my first road cooler in like 16 years.

OK, yes, the cooler, yep.

The cooler is as many beers as you can, ice on top, let it sit for a day. That way the ice becomes water, and the next level of ice, holy shit.

Oh man.

Those beers taste like money in a can. I put 24 banquets and 12 fucking athletics.

Coors OG?

24 golds. Golds. 12 NAs.

Okay.

You know why?

Why? Because what I love isn't the beers. No. What I love is the fraternity. And the teachers who taught me were like, if you don't drink, you can't get into the fraternity.

Yeah.

And if I had one way to change that, I would say, if you don't drink, here's a non-alcoholic beer. Sure. Because what you'll learn around here, it may be six hours of bullshit. Yeah. You might have to weed through it. But it might be five seconds of wisdom. Yes. Yeah. And I'm grateful to my teachers for that. I just wish I just wish it was

accessible to everybody. Sure you mentioned you mentioned your teachers. Are there any in particular in the overall body of work, this legendary body of work that you've put up? Again, this is, you've just retired. This is the first time you've spoken to anybody here at the Nightmare Factory. These teachers, is there any that you think of now after retirement?

Has anybody that you've talked to? Because I know of a few that were special to you But were there any that were in your head all perhaps that were in your head?

So the common through line through every piece of mentorship. Yeah from Vince on down Was Listen to the audience. Yeah So if everyone in a chicken soup business of like, I do it this way, I do it this way,

if everyone's message boils down to the Shawn Michaels sentence, if they were really loud, it was really good. It's not wrong. So my biggest teacher is the audience.

Yeah.

The audience. And the audience has taught me far more than just, did I have a good performance? Yeah. The audience has taught me humility, failure, perseverance. Yeah. That they're going to eventually turn on you, that they're going to welcome you, that they're

going to love you, that they're going to hate you that they're gonna love you, that they're gonna hate you. Like, it has taught me to stand through the fire.

Yeah.

You know, I was getting crushed by the live audience way before I got crushed on the screen. Yeah. You know, so it's, it makes, it's actually set me in a great spot as people have been very critical about this year, for me to be like,

have I given all I have? Yes. Have I promoted as hard as I could? Yes. Then let them do whatever they want, because I can't give an ounce more after that.

Sure.

And the audience has taught me. The people who are criticizing me have taught me that lesson.

Yeah.

Of just give us all you got and then we're gonna cut you to shreds. You know? Well, once it's like you said, it's art. Once it's out there. Once it's out there, it's for everyone else. Yeah. And you gotta let that go.

You just do the best you can to be like, this is the story I'm trying to tell. The Funhouse, Firefly Funhouse, there's like a million Easter eggs in there that no one will ever get.

Yeah.

But it's theirs now. The last match, our match, our first match, our promos. There's so much attitude and emotion and inside stories there.

Yeah.

A lot of times we would get together in conversations and you would have stuff and I'd be like, I think that's too inside.

Yeah.

And I applaud you. again, very wise. Yes, that is what John would think. Hi, I'm Cody and this is what I think and this is what we're gonna do.

All right. That really affected you.

That's what a teachable moment.

I don't even, I just, I thought very much that the character John, the person, this is how you would approach it. And I thought, no, I would approach it differently. And I felt like, I was glad it was said.

It was a beautiful, teachable moment. And I can't be an advocate for like, find yourself, find your story, find your confidence, take big swings. And then essentially just, no, just, I know this is gonna work, do it like this. You caught me in a loop and it was like that sentence.

What I heard was be more fucking coachable. Be more coachable. You say you want us to go out there and do this, I'm trying to apply that, you're trying to stifle my growth.

Okay.

So, you were just expressing yourself in a term of a fictional stance of like, the John Cena would say this, I'm the Cody, I would say this, far more than that.

Oh man.

And you can never stop learning. And you were absolutely right, and you know know me I'm an advocate for best idea wins I don't care who comes up with yeah You had the best idea. Yeah, and You wanted to bet on yourself. How can I say no? Yeah when I'm that's my calling card that sting crack We never thought it would get over think that sting crack brought the fucking crack would land. Brought the fucking house down. Holy shit.

I was surprised at that one.

Oh, by the way, we got to, because I shouted out the gold can and then the non-NAs, we got to give a shout out to Wheatley. We got to give a shout out to Wheatley, folks. This is the You Can't Sit Me. Made with quality Wheatley American Vodka. This has been the conversation oil for this fantastic conversation, so we got to shout

them out.

I'm going to ask you a question, and I think, knowing you, I feel like you have the perfect answer. You know what, we can actually say this and we can leave it all in there, but Wheatley's a pretty unbelievable partner. They're pretty good with real life in general. As long as the vodka is Wheatley, they're pretty much good. A lot of wild things. They're just a good,

good solid partner.

Thanks to Wheatley for being a good partner.

I'm actually going to Louisville tomorrow. Big Wheatley meeting. Big Wheatley meeting. We don't even know. We're just there.

See, this is great.

We're doing it. You know, you think you pedal the bike really hard, right? Yeah. You try to put a flag in the dirt, and I always say, like, accomplishments are only there so they can be surpassed. Dude, I don't know how you do it. You just...

I had a good teacher. Somehow you make 24 hours into 30. And one of those days I'll ask you for how you split that time. It won't be today.

I had a very good teacher who I watched sit in the passenger seat, do the literal exact same thing. Oh, 6 a.m. Tickets are, we're at a 60% utilization. Can you do this? It wasn't even a conversation.

It wasn't. Now I know one of the great things I learned from you is you need a good explanation. Give me a good explanation. Why do we need this? Often, there is a good explanation. Thank you so much.

I'll be there. 530?

Great.

Then you think, well, that was a good explanation. You used to say this all the time. People would ask you all the time, what was your favorite match? And your answer?

My next one. Your next one. Have you thought about- You son of a bitch. Yeah, have you thought about- You've been listening.

Yeah, how do you answer that question now?

So I have thought a lot about this.

Okay, yeah.

And there are many moments from the rock cliffs of Afghanistan to the desert in Iraq to the first match to the first championship to the first world championship to 16 to 17 to seeing all the phone lights in Perth to actually the Funhaus match with Bray to you and I in New Jersey, to DJ in Miami, the list goes on and on. I think what I really cherish most about this,

it is a universal language. And that's why we have such a global reach. You watch it with the volume off, you can see anger, and then you can see the match. And maybe it's just because it's fresh in my mind.

I can't get past Phil Brooks, CM Punk, Saudi Arabia. I think that might be my favorite moment in wrestling.

Wow.

This is the match itself?

No, the pre-show.

The pre-show?

Yeah. I was lucky enough to have a promo with him that night and a match. So I'm attaching myself to that moment. OK. Because I think it is one of the best moments in wrestling.

Please tell me why.

There is no shortage of divide. We have a million different ways to gravitate towards like-minded groups and therefore block everyone else out. who, in a moment of frustration and reaction, said some pretty hateful things about a culture. And then you have that culture being like, fuck you. Come at us.

Not in our house. And then you have a man who's brave enough to walk into the lion's den. And for young performers, old performers, please watch that pre-show. I think it fell under everybody's radar. I was bawling my eyes out, saying like, this is the best thing ever. Phil goes out there, I want to say Phil because it's his development as a man.

Yeah.

Front row, there is a dude to hold him accountable. And I'm huge on accountability.

Yeah.

And in the right moment, Phil was accountable for what he said.

Yeah.

He gave a good explanation for the why. And what can we do after that? I'm sorry. And then you leave it. That's all you can do. Forgiveness takes time.

And when someone's ready to forgive, they'll mend that fence. That gentleman forgave him right there. And broke. The forgiveness was infectious. So what I see is like, holy shit,

wrestling just brought cultures together.

Yeah.

Wrestling just brought people with different ideologies together in an embrace and excitement.

Yeah.

Phil went on that pre-show at 5 PM. We did a promo at like 830.

Yeah.

He went from being the most hated person to forgiving one or saying sorry to one guy and being forgiven and then the whole pre-show forgiving him. And then went out in front of 31,000 people and they forgave him. I don't know if there's a better moment than that. I don't know if there's a better moment of what we can accomplish in here. Of fucked up, this is why I did.

This is what was going through my mind. Boy was it the stupidest thing in the world. I'm so sorry. I hope you can find it in your heart to move on. And if it's not now, okay. That's all I wanted to hear, bud.

We have moved on. Yeah, haven't we? Yes and like Man I love growth. I love accountability I'm an advocate for love and forgiveness and that hit me in every right place and that wasn't even a match That was a segment on a pre-show ratio And then he came out after everybody was like,

we did the thing in Chicago, the pipe bomb 2.0. Yeah. And everybody was like, well, how is he going to top that?

He did.

He came out as the doctor of punkonomics. Yeah. And because he had been such an accountable, apologetic human being, he was embraced and he fucking crushed it. And that's why I zone out when I get in there. Like I very rarely, I feel everything,

but things very rarely get to me. That pre-show moment struck me so hard that when he said, I miss you already out there, I got weird, bro. Like I couldn't, my processors like fizzled for a second.

Yeah.

When usually you know me, I'm like, there's a guy in the third deck with the sign that says this. I'll use it in the act. I got lost in it. That's how meaningful it was to me.

Wow. I think that's the... For me, that's the best moment I've been a part of. Wow, it's, uh... It's not what I anticipated, but that day, it wasn't... I remember it wasn't unsung to me. It wasn't... I didn't underthink it. I knew he was walking out there,

and it was gonna get a little contentious. And then I think the thing you said about language and the universal language is what we do. The fact that it translated over the next two days

in addition, it multiplied, it was infectious. And it's... And it's not just that it helped our match and helped our programming do a good show. Sure. I saw a man with apology, empathy, and love in his heart

try his best to mend cultural differences and do it. Like wrestling mended cultural differences. I can't fucking top that.

When people ask about going to Saudi Arabia all the time, I've really gotten less about answering in a way that's political and more in a sense that I'm there performing to do something that they love as much as we love.

And their love has... Sorry to add myself in the conversation. I went over there the first time, I'm, what, 18?

Yeah.

They had the couches in the front row.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Nobody was allowed to make noise. It's like, you go there now, it is an incredible crowd

to perform.

So they've done their work, too. They've invested in us. It's a great way to put it. And far beyond a paper IOU. They've invested their heart in us. is raucous. Because over the course of less than a decade, they believe. That's also really special, because you

don't know the trickle-down economics of that. You don't know the effect that that has 5, 10, 15 years. Nobody can predict it. But what I know is what I saw on day one and what I see now. And it's beautiful.

The Bruce Prichard, who's a big part of your career, I believe.

Yeah.

And one of my favorite people, he's been a guest on the podcast. He was a guest. I often like to sit here and we have these conversations and what happens, I become a far better, I hope a better person. But I also feel from a professional standpoint, I become a far better wrestler. And Bruce was one that I don't know if the audience loved the Bruce episode that

much or if they didn't love the Bruce episode that much. I think it's my favorite because I wanted to run through a brick wall as a performer, as a talent. I wanted to, I just felt like he just gave me the answer. That answer I needed that day, which was show up, do it, was his exact words. When I asked what makes a top guy.

And then it's so simple, but it's not. Show up, do it is so simple, but it's not. Not everybody gets to the part of showing up, and very few actually get to the part of doing it when it's time to do it. All this aside, something he showed me on Saturday,

he knows I like to be motivated, and you know I like to be motivated and you know I like to be motivated as you continuously have said you're going to show me some numbers reflective on the gigantic merch wave.

No, no, just general numbers. Yeah, first of all I hate the term merch.

Okay, well here's what he showed me. He showed me a list of numbers. Sellouts, well, here's what he showed me. Anyway, yeah. He showed me a list of numbers. Sellouts, revenues, and he just flashed it at me.

I wanted to show you a year of analytics.

So it wasn't a full analytic breakdown, but it was more of a dumbed down version of all I ever needed to see. And then he took it away, flashed it at me, he goes, you'll appreciate this. And then he took it away flashed it at me. He goes you'll appreciate this and then he took it away. I

kept thinking about that Saturday because

One of the things that you taught me and was so enjoyable about all the time We spent together is you really did lead? Into everything you did from a segment. What's our why what are we going to do? What's the connection? There's a live audience guys Why aren't you taking them in? They're out there. You always put your heart there, but you were also not afraid to lead with your mind. I think you always would lead both heart and mind,

and it's reflective in a sense that in DC, a building, I think you told me, had 700 people for an event. 700 paid, 1,200 total. 1,200 total. Yeah, Batista's wife at the time sang the national anthem. Batista's wife sang the national anthem. You said it was good?

Yeah, she rocked it.

Rocked it. 1,200 people total.

Me and six other people know about it.

Right.

Well, now hopefully more know about it. More folks in the locker room than were in the stands. the same arena and we don't just sell out. You said we move in, we almost breach fire code. And whereas what Hunter has dubbed 360, there's a difference between a sellout and a 360. 360, we're putting seats where cameras are supposed to go. Marty's having to step around people.

Stu is fighting through to get an actual shot. And I just thought what a obviously what a statement of love for you and your career but also it's so John that it was not just a great, wonderful, beautiful retirement for pro wrestling fans. The world came to this show on Saturday. You know they called me, Hunter called me, I don't wanna say they, excuse me.

Hunter called me asking would I be part of it in a way that kind of, he didn't. He just said it in a way that I think maybe he thought I was gonna say no. I was waiting for that call. Am I gonna be part of something that a guy who taught me the majority of what I know and apply. So not just what I know and apply in his final destination as a pro wrestler and

knowing you and I feel I'm not speaking out of turn saying that's it. You will not be wrestling again.

That is for sure.

That's it. Yeah. And I kept saying to all my but nobody ever really retired after the beauty

of Saturday, right there. I have this I can't top it.

And to think that it wasn't just the hardcore wrestling fan, which we love and is always there, and they ride through every season and every era of wrestling. But the world came to that event. 1,200 people, 700 paid, Batiste's wife singing the national anthem, and here you are, and we're almost breaking fire code, because people wanted to see it,

and wanted to be part of it, and wanted to touch it. Those numbers were, I still look forward to your analytics, but those numbers were staggering to me.

But I think the number that's important here is that it took 23 years. And a lot of times people think they can do it overnight. Yeah. And first of all, thank you for being part of that because when your music hits to a crowd who knows you, it immediately brings a certain level to the to the live event.

And you were gracious enough to work with an up-and-coming talent that has an incredibly bright future ahead of him. Probably not your last match with that.

I would say not.

Behemoth.

Yeah, nearly took my ear off. But you introduced him to the noise. Yeah. You got to hear it for the first time. And that was a personal selfish goal of mine. How many folks can we get around the noise?

Damn, there it is again.

Yes. Let's take our top talent and put them with new talent, just so on this one night they can hear. Hearing loud noise is one thing. Hearing that level of noise is another thing. And now they've heard it, so now they have something to strive for.

Furthering that, I got to have one last beer in the locker room in my gear, in my socks, my knee pads, the jorts.

Yeah.

And I made a toast. And the toast was to the metrics of the evening. Largest arena in WWE history.

Wow.

Largest for the building itself. Very rarely do we hit those milestones. No, we do not. Yes, very rare. And the only reason I wanted to showcase those metrics is because I said that, you know, Haku was in the room and Javon Evans was in the room.

So your last toast in the wrestling business was with Javon and Haku?

And everyone in between. I mean, we have legends, we have future stars, we have talent that are front and center in our programming. The locker room was full. I can't believe that many people stayed. So I have 12 ounces of conversation left in me, and I choose to use a moment to say, this

is what we did tonight. The reason we did that is because of the effort of people like Haku. Yeah. Also the goal is for you younger guys to shove that shit straight up my ass. Mm-hmm. You now have the metric. Yeah. My introduction to that was a little bit more brash. Hit me with it. When Steve Austin came back around and we did Staples.

Yeah.

Steve was real beautiful with his wisdom. Yeah. I admire him for always being him, and it's a lesson that stuck with me. Champion doing things that like, OK, you know, the business is going well.

We're digging it out. There's no more. No more is there 1,200 people.

Yeah.

But we still are throwing out some black curtain. And I think it might have been Anaheim, because it's one of those. No, both the buildings are the tunnels. But it's like he walked in in daylight.

It was Anaheim.

It was Anaheim. He walked in in daylight, hey kid, how you doing? And you could see the arena from where we were at. Man, I'm doing great, things are going good, we're doing this, I'm doing this on TV tonight. He goes, that's great. We didn't have any of this fucking black curtain, we're not performed, have a good night.

Out. But not cold, honest. Yeah, of course. The metric you should be reaching for, if you are doing what you say you're doing, is getting the word out. And I wanted to have that one last chance with the brotherhood, the family, the fraternity,

to say we got here because of these folks. We need to surpass this because of you guys. Let's toast to that. You know what I'm saying? And it felt great. It's not braggadociouscious because it's a moment.

It's fleeting. It is. It's gone. It's gone. But like, hey guys, this is the standard. I'm fortunate enough to win 17 just so somebody knows it's possible.

Yeah. So they can go win 18. Right. And I don't want to be that person's hand when that happens. You know what I'm saying? Because that's a, for the longest time, the record would stand and it's like, oh man, nobody's gonna even come close.

And oh my God, it might be possible. Now it's possible. So if there's a young performer out there, or who knows, it's possible. Like, that's the strongest guy in the gym. Go do more.

You know what I'm saying? Like I enjoyed that.

I, you said it's not braggadocious and I think very similar in a sense. I had a conversation, I think I even told you about it. Production, someone who's new to WWE production came on my bus and we were not seeing eye to eye on something. And it's fleeting, you only get one opportunity to kind of say, hey, look at what we did here tonight. And what I was explaining, cuz we've had this series of,

especially with your farewell tour, we've had series of record grosses, arena records, just stuff that hadn't happened. And then prior to that and coming out of WrestleMania 40, a lot of top grosses, top per caps, all that language. But I said, hey, it's not always like this.

It's not.

It's not. There are 3200ers. There are, we don't want, but there are.

And the goal is, Eddie Guerrero taught me this.

Yeah.

Those nights that 1,000 folks show up, you do everything in your living power to give them the absolute best show you can. So the next time, 1,500 people will show up. There it is. And you go out and do double the effort. So the next time, 3,000 people.

Eddie was big on the law of compounding interest, one fan at a time.

Sure. Those lessons that stick with us. Eddie Guering interest, one fan at a time. Sure.

Those lessons that stick with us, Eddie Guerrero, one fan at a time. Take it one fan at a time.

My gosh.

And what I like about the metrics you discussed, like I said, that is 23 years of owls and eagles. Yeah. And that's the annuity yield. Like, that's the IRA. It doesn't happen in one... And if you are one of those folks that it happens,

I've seen it happen rarely, where they're shot to the top. Yeah.

You got to stay there.

Yeah.

You know what I'm saying?

I love the past year because it is a true reflection to, like, owls and e Eagles for two decades or however you want to whatever moniker you want to put never give up hustle loyalty, respect, whatever. It love what you do, be coachable, be reliable and be professional.

Yeah.

And after two decades, you can hopefully we can do something that's meaningful.

You know, this is just a side note because Haku is now he's in all this Haku should be coming on the pod, by the way. Haku once beat me up after a New Japan show. Why, in the midst of it, legendary ring announcer Jim Ross said on the air, this angle's taking too long. While Haku was beating me up.

I don't know if anyone needs to know that. But when I saw Haku at ringside, I thought for a minute, he could come over here right now. And I'd have to sell, I'd have to, I got a good handshake out of him. He was happy, he liked what he was seeing that night, he was in good spirits. But yeah, Haku, certainly cheers to him, like you said,

all the things that he had done, then all the things now framed up for the young men. Oh my gosh.

Mark Henry, Booker T, Undertaker, Sean, Michelle McCool, Eve Torres, heck, Elias snuck into that group. You know what I'm saying? But everybody who...

Gorilla was a who's who.

Who paved the way. I think it's important because I don't look at it like I told you off air. Like man, you guys are making the most we've ever made. Like it's a good time to be a wrestler.

Yeah.

You got hot because somebody had Louis Vuitton shoes on.

That's a joke.

You said you got to lighten the envelopes.

By the way, paying the guys too much. Yes, and talking like that, you know it's complete sarcasm.

It was, but it worried me a little. I thought, no, no.

I'm grateful for that.

We like the issues.

Instead of jaded. Because the generation before me helped do that, helped do that, helped do that. It's up to you guys to get these guys in the next bracket. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? To make it, and you only get to the next bracket

if we do great business.

Yeah.

So, enjoy.

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Head to fanaticsfest.com to get your tickets today. I Want to I want to bring this up just because it's right in front of me and I'm just taking all of this in and This this ensemble the suit Seasonal well, it's holidays. It's phenomenal. Thanks, man, and the pocket you got a suit game So I got you know, I'm game all started, you started it at, with your tailor. Yeah.

I don't know if you want to shout it out your tailor here in terms of, you know.

Oh no, David Allen's, well, I've gone through a few. David Allen's been my guy for well over a decade.

For quite some time. Yes. Right. Maybe it was the same logic I had. My logic in it all was I wanted to subvert expectations on what someone might think when they meet a wrestler. I wanted them to think and know we are a business and we're in the business of entertainment.

And that was the thing that was in my mind doing it. But no, I just wanted to bring it up that he really threw, whoever threw something together for this, this is quite.

He's like the gutter guards at the bowling alley.

Okay.

He will keep me out of the gutter. Yeah. But I like choosing my own stuff.

Yeah, you told me that. You like looking at the buttons. You like looking at the fabric.

Swatches, like I love, because it's, man, it's like making an outfit. Yeah. I did 36 for 36 this year, made 36 outfits. And I made them all. I don't tailor them, I don't stitch them all, but I'm like, no, it has to move over a little bit this way and I wanna put this as an Easter egg in there

and we need this and like, I enjoy the process. And lo and behold, it's a uniform. The suit is the same structure. I always wear either a one or two button coat. I wear the, I don't wear the low vest. It's like, I don't do double breasted, every once in a while, double breasted vest. Every once in a while, double breasted coat. Like, the uniform's the same, it's just that the color switch.

So imagine that, the guy who always wears jorts, kind of always wears the version of that.

You mentioned the uniform, Joe Hickey. Yeah. To this day, I have this great relationship with Joe Hickey. Yeah. To this day, I have this great relationship with Joe Hickey, who works WWE merchandise, Fanatics, WWE Shop, all those things. I have this great relationship. I would never even have known his name, which would have been naive of me and

ignorant of me as a WWE performer. But you used to talk to him after every event.

Yeah.

And I'd sit there and be driving and you would just go over. Same with Derek and Chop and all those guys. Yeah. You know, Lumpy. Lumpy, Pumpkin, Derek, Chop. There's a bunch of new nicknames too. Egger. Shout out to the Egg. Saw him in San Diego. Goaty as well. Yeah. They're out there. So what I love about Joe is he is a creative, he's an artist. I enjoy talking with Joe, with Derek and crew there. Because you have guys who are not artists,

but they're in the trenches. You can make, I just text Derek after he, you know, we did really good this weekend. I'm like, dude, we can have the best stuff. I can feel I have a uniform that is like, this is it. If I don't have passionate vendors, we sell nothing.

And he is a passionate vendor and has a network of passionate vendors underneath him. And they care when they set up. And they'll tell you like, it ain't doing so hot. It's the ultimate pivot from them. I always like talking to Joe about the artistry, and then when we get the artistry bringing

in Derek to be like, can we vend this? It's a team back there. You know what I'm saying?

Oh my gosh, it's a team.

And you know me, nobody does it alone. Those guys are just as valuable as Stu and Marty and everybody in the truck, and Scalise and his live event team, and our international team, and we all are working together.

Yeah, it really is. It is such a team, and I got to go to HQ the other day and just meet every department and see if there's a place that I might fit in in the future,

and just, you forget.

The writers' rooms, our assistants, the Dega, putting food on our plates.

Catering, oh my gosh.

Everybody's in on it and of value to us.

You gave me something on Saturday, again, first remark since retirement, thank you. You gave me something on Saturday that did just tickle me inside. I just, I was so glad you gave me one last piece. Because you were just walking around saying thank you, like you said,

trying to have meaningful moments. And I thought it would just be a quick pass by. There was no one busier on that day than you. And you came by and you shook my hand and you said, thanks for being here. But then you go, but one thing, and you leaned in and it was a whole thing about staying in the ring too long afterwards with the kid.

And I thought, man, even on the last night, last night, and it was great.

It wasn't, I thought about it after I got. I did that with every match. Yeah. Including my own.

Well, that's something you did all the time. And one of the things I really liked is you always asked, what could we have done better? Which Kirshenbaum on the writer team and Pat, who's his kind of scribe, who's been working with me a lot lately, that's the big go to after. Well, okay, good. What could we have done better?

Just have a post-mortem. Yes. Even- Well, you said even if there was nothing. Have a postmortem and dig.

Yeah.

Dig for it.

Yeah.

Hey, there was an awkward moment between our one-two exchange.

Right.

OK, let's tighten that up next time.

Yeah.

Or let's figure out why. Is it because I was talking too loud, or you were trying to talk over me talking too loud. I don't know. But I do that after. I did that for every match. I love I do that for every match and including my own.

I love it. You invited me a couple of times out. And they were your team, including your lovely, lovely wife who helped with a few promos. I don't know if the world knows that.

But they should.

She definitely is going to get a co-writing credit, not just on John's words, on many of mine as well. But that team you have around you, I saw them, and I wanted to go around when we were all outside the ring. And I really got stuck on your shoes, and I never made it over to them. But it was very important to you that they were there and

she was there at every show. Yeah, every show.

It was far more important to me that she was there. Because a lot of the folks on the team have been with me for a long time.

Yeah.

It was a lot, it was very important that she was there.

Yeah. It was a lot. It was very important that she was there. Yeah.

Well, I feel the reason, I don't know if they relate to each other, but I saw John when I'm driving you around, I'm trying to learn everything I can, we're having a great time. Was it Delaware, New Hampshire, where the blue hens? I don't know if you remember that.

That was Delaware. The where the blue hens I don't know if you remember that was those Delaware I don't know where the blue hens like geographically

I don't know

I just remember the lady telling us we had to leave and you kept upping the time and somehow if she still Kept coming out. I am I believe in diplomacy and friend friendly negotiation most of diplomatic their person there there possibly could be No, but there were some phases. And when it's someone you look up to and admire and you want to be like him, as I wanted to be like you,

I still enjoyed the fact that, I don't know if he knows just about everything about himself. Because one week, he was a cowboy, for a solid month. Full hat, the beers, chewing Levi Garrett. And I thought, I mean, my dad was a cowboy.

I think your time off that month is like two and a half years.

Okay, well, so the phases were cowboy, but then country music stayed. Because we listened to a lot of Conway Twitty, a great deal of Willie Nelson, all outlaw country. Merle and Waylon and all that stuff,

which I don't know, our little theme song that we had was Poncho and Lefty.

Story about two friends?

It is. Do you know anything else about the song?

No, not a thing.

No, it is a, good, for those watching, please tell me. I know it's a story about two friends, and that was our song, Poncho and Lefty. Sometimes that's all you need to know.

Maybe that is all.

Again.

All we need to know. Oh, you know a lot about stuff.

I know that that's a song I like. Poncho and Lefty. But the cowboy phase was happening, Levi Garrett being chewed, the cooler. But then there was also the lifting phase, which you've always been into physical fitness, my gosh, and it's been part of your whole career. But there was the phase of Olympic lifting, where you were really,

really big on telling everybody about Olympic lifting. And Rob gets involved, hard knocks becomes a thing. You got wooden shoes that you're carrying this little bag for platform lifting. Bands became a thing for a minute. All of these phases, I was around. And then period of time I go away from WDB, I don't see you, we have no interaction.

And then ultimately, when we get back together, the first time that any brown liquor is brought around, I'm assuming we're gonna shoot this and gargle it. And like fire in our throats and bellies and you gave me this whole thing about it, scotch and we savor it. And it was just a refined, I remember kind of sitting back and

thinking he seems in such a refined, different place. And it doesn't mean that wasn't in there still, but I just there was something about her and you together that I really was so happy for

you.

Thank you very much for saying that. I firmly believe we shouldn't be who we were yesterday. And when you look back at your life, just for a moment, just reflect in your mind, are you the same high school wrestler?

No.

Okay, great. Are you the same person you were when you left us?

No.

Okay, and phases before that. Like, all of us have phases. Yeah. And what I loved about every chapter and the chapters to come is I enthusiastically go

in.

Yeah.

And then when something is exhausted, I take the nuggets of what I really loved about it. What did I love about the cowboy phase? I loved the sadness of wanting love in my life, but the ability to not commit. Like, I am meant to be on the range. I am meant to be on the road.

All those Outlaw songs are talking about, like, be on the range. I am meant to be on the road. All those Outlaw songs are talking about, like, life on the road, as if they're forced, but they're not, it's a choice. And then the lack of things. And I also liked, essentially, the background-ish noise of country music,

but every once in a while, when you're through that bottle of brown, like, you could be like, yo, listen to the words.

Yeah.

And they were also running parallel lives to us, doing different shows every night.

Sure.

Trying to make it work, trying to balance everything when there's no such thing. The fraternity involved in that, the persistence and weightlifting, the precision. It's essentially like a golf swing with a bar, and it's something you'll never perfect. So you have to do it a million times just to be okay and then do it a million more to...

And it's... success is measured in .5 kilograms. Okay. .5 at a time.

Yeah.

You can do your best, and you can break your best by .5. That's not a ton of weight, but incrementally, it adds up to a great compounding gain. It's like everything I strive for. Being able to sip and enjoy.

I asked Undertaker one time, why don't we drink bourbon?

Yeah.

He said, because it's hard. No kidding.

Yeah.

And we gargle it because it's difficult. Yeah. And when I'm trying to Get my eyes on a room of who are the right people. Yeah The business is tough. Yeah, it's it will just If you're not ready for it, it will get the best of you. Yeah, and it was a metric among many Can you take a rib like can you do the hard stuff? Can you be up early. Can you take a rib? Like, can you do the hard stuff?

Can you be up early? Can you be out late? Can we trust you? Again, a bit archaic, because the business has changed. But the reason they did that was because it was difficult.

So my takeaway from that was, don't be afraid to do hard shit. But also, like what I loved about that time was the brotherhood.

Yeah.

The fraternity. So what's the difference? Why do we got to drink it all at once? Pour me something, let's sip on it and let's have a conversation, let's grow and learn. You know? So I'll take things from these phases and move on to the next phase. And if we're sitting here 30 years from now

and I'm still the same guy, I have some course correction to do.

Yeah. That's Hunter's rule, too. I'm not the same as I was.

Shouldn't be. We should all strive for growth and approach life with curiosity. You know, I can't wait to... Everybody's like, oh, what are you gonna do?

I don't know, but I can't wait. Was Shane McMahon the one who said, we gargle the whiskey to separate the weak from the strong?

So he gave me a mirror message of what Undertaker said. We do it because it's not easy.

What a statement to make to a group of people, you know?

But like, so what I hear is, we're trying to bet on the right people. And I get that. I'm a way more lenient. I want to bet on everybody. I want everybody to win. But I also get why it existed.

And I also, for many more reasons than that, I mean, escapism in some forms.

Sure, sure, sure.

We don't hide. This could turn into a therapy couch. We do that every now and then. For the longest time, pro wrestling was my safe space, and my life was a fucking wreck, and everything was great in wrestling, so I didn't want anybody coming in, which is a lot of the reason why I wanted to make sure

my teammate was at every one of these. And in being at over 100 shows, she gained knowledge of wrestling. She talks the language now, and now I can reference moments in my career, she'd be like, man, that's great. We stole your toast game. The toast game, that's her idea. We stole her toast.

You want to explain how the toast work?

Yeah, so anytime.

I don't know if you want to give it away.

No, I'm going to have one tonight.

We're going on a date tonight. I stole it and thought, this is a great,

and it's fun withling when it's just her and I. Yeah. So she's introduced to a group. My group is eclectic from all over the world. I don't have neighborhood friends, because I've never had a neighborhood. So she's kind of dropped into this Petri dish.

And boy, we lean in to conversations. I don't mind talking about sports and the weather, but I can only do that for a hot second. And I want to talk about real shit, because I want to grow. And all the people around me are in that same mindset. She's like, you guys, it's crazy what you talk about.

And then one night, she just came up with the idea of, like, let's have everybody at the table have a thought. Let's do a toast. Like, Cody, you go first, and I'll end it. And everyone goes around the table, and what I love about it is the folks that are new

to the group can simply say cheers. They get to speak, and they get to listen. And listening is a lost art, and dwindling every second. So the cool thing about a big table is a majority of those toasts are gonna be like, you better have two drinks

because you're gonna rifle through them. But you also have to listen. The two on two toast is good because we can both emote and it's really, it's a personal thing. But when you have 19 people, you're gonna listen for 18 stories.

And when you go, you've got to also know your time. You hit your time.

Oh, yeah.

It's a whole. That's why I like the larger groups. There was an element of camaraderie, but also almost a competitive nature to the, but also listening and learning about somebody.

And then that itself. We just had a real special one on Sunday. And it's pretty much everybody you saw in that front row.

Oh, yeah.

And every single person. I lean in. I got very few guardrails because I'm at peace with who I am. There's not a ton of protected information, but the stuff that is mine, hardline boundaries, that's mine.

The conversation between them and my wife is the same. But a lot of those folks, for the first time, were able to take down some of the guardrails and speak from the heart. And I just love seeing that.

You mentioned you're listening. It's a lost art. It's not a lost art to me because in MetLife Stadium, in front of 60 plus thousand people, you were about to attitude adjustment me through a table. And I had my hand in a weird position, but I'm also thinking, I'm taking the bum. He's fine.

And you said, I, you, you, you said, I can't hear and I can't see because of where my arm was. And I thought, bud, just throw me. I'm not, like, I'm the one who's falling. And then I had to move my arm so you could see and hear. But you then said the nicest,

all of this should not be said in this setting, but you got it all out. Hey, I can't see, I can't hear. I move my arm and then you go, thank you so much. And then threw me through the table and that wonderful space age table that we have today that's quite complicated.

We're gonna get it right eventually. It shattered, but that was as clear as it could possibly be. Need to see, need to hear, need to listen, need to see need to hear need to listen need to listen.

A lot of moments in the retirement match.

Yeah.

Hopefully one of these days and I know the consumer or right now the information we have a very when the facts change I changed my mind. Yeah, but the information we have is our consumer wants to have that curtain pulled back more and more.

Yeah.

I know that WWE catches ring mics, I just know they don't turn them up. Yeah. I am audibly talking a lot for all of the match.

Yes.

When archives chooses to release footage, you'll hear me so many times. Ears, bud, ears. Can't hear, ears, bud, ears. It's like, the noise is, it's a conversation. And if you're having a conversation and your ears are plugged.

There's hours of unused sound of Robin Williams as the genie. Just going on and on. I feel it's probably very similar because some of the full conversations shouted out in there by you are truly amazing. Are you ready to hold WWE history in the palm of your hand? Tops is bringing you closer to the action than ever before with WWE Tops Now,

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Here's the bigger question again, retirement just happened. Thank you, world famous Nightmare Factory, the first time we've done it here.

May this be your forever spot.

Wheatley American Vodka.

This is a WWID location. This is maybe the next 18 time champ's gonna come out of here. Why would you do it anywhere else?

You're almost saying it in a way.

This should be your spot.

I hear you.

I even suggested get your students for the broadcast.

Yeah.

So we can have a live audience filmed at the world-famous nightmare factory in front of a live studio audience Y'all can come up with some like 80s open VCR effects. I know a little love that. Oh, come on Nostalgia old NWA open or something like that. I do love a period of wrestling I feel like every time you come on my bus it's on and you you've got you've often asked what do you what are you watching this? What are you getting? There's something in there. There's something in everything. It's like the six hours of you got to get through it a little bit, but

then there's that moment that Terry Taylor buff bag well finish that you're like.

That's it.

But here you take that you're watching matches to I think have it on. Yeah, be close to the product. I need it. But also learn. I watched every event I was on. I watched 99, 95% of the matches that happened.

Yeah.

Just to watch them. And I was into every one. And every one I would put myself in the shoes of the competitor of like, I would have done this. I would have done this. This was the long enough pause.

This was too short. Or I don't know why they did that finish. Or they milked the t-shirt at the beginning and then paid off. So many things. I don't mind watching matches. I just, I'm not good enough to have enough discipline

in those moments. Like, OK, I have to have it all. I should have. Maybe I'd learn a little bit more. But I don't have the discipline.

I'm not good enough. I think you have the discipline. Well, the bigger question here, again, retirement just happened. Thank you, first words. And what would you like to do, and forgive me for the vagueness here. What do you feel is next for you? Pro wrestling, if the people in the industry who know you, and a lot of the fans, because they know you in terms of the authenticity,

that connection has always really been strong. Know that you aren't gonna wrestle again.

No, for sure.

And you being part of the WWE as an ambassador. But what do you think is next in terms of what hill is next to climb? It's a great lesson. I had said it three times I dropped two of you yesterday and in terms of just talking with Kersh, what's our why? What's our why here tonight?

And then of course, let's climb the hill in front of us. Do you know what that is? And if not, that's quite all right. I just, I think the world would like to know what's next.

I have always been somebody to wait for life to deal you what it's going to.

Yeah.

Cuz life will deal you a hill.

Mm-hm.

You know, it will deal you a hill. So what is immediately next for me?

Yeah.

I gotta get my third run on an implant.

Oh, hey look.

I've lost three of them and I gotta get another one.

Who did it, was it Gunther?

Or you just lost it?

Just lost it. Life did it.

Yeah, okay.

So I'm going to get that done two days from now.

Okay.

And then holiday travel. Yeah. So be present with curiosity and purpose with my family for seven days, and then for my other family for 10 days. And then after that, whatever hill I have next. But that is like, keep screen time way down. Get as many social engagements as you can.

Actively listen. Curiously ask about folks, and be genuine and what they have to answer. Sure. No when a Good friend of mine try to head. Do you need? Do you want me to listen or you want me to help essentially? Yeah, a lot of folks just want to lighten their backpack Yeah, I'm saying so These are folks I care and love about and actively after years of absence absence, hiding under the guise of, well, I'm working.

I'm still not pouring into that relationship. So I got two to three weeks of that, and then I'll see, man.

Yeah.

Yeah. I don't know how you feel about this next thing I have to say, because that's beautiful in terms of what's immediately next. I don't know in what setting, but I really hope we get the opportunity to work together again.

You're my first job after retirement.

There it is.

Look at this.

Literally, yeah.

No shit, you are my first job after retirement.

You can't sit there.

And I scheduled this, like way ahead of time.

You did, you made it very clear. You also made it very clear we weren't gonna be faking it. You needed retirement to happen. Yep. And the conversation would be authentic and real. And we were very ready for it.

I can hear you rounding this up.

I don't have to.

No, you do. I mean, you got stuff to do. I hope-

You know a lot of the stuff I have to do is stuff you used to do.

Stuff I still do.

Stuff you still do, yeah.

I just hide it away from people.

Yeah.

Yeah.

No, but I mean, that's the path.

That's my path. Worked okay for me, but everybody has their own. Certainly, And one of the DJ moves in his own lane, Roman in his own lane, Brock in his own lane, you in your own. Like, there's a ton of Phil in his own lane. Like, it's a chicken soup business, dude. And I think that's why people get so passionate about it.

And I think that's a lot of times why emotions might get the best of us. And in a nice way to call back to maybe something I wanted to do this, to talk about this is, we all have our own way of doing it.

Yeah.

And what I love about the past year is so many people have been critical about so many moments.

Yeah.

And blamed it on this fictitious book or creative direction.

Sure.

This always happens. I never... What a fucking ironic statement to make. I never speak in absolutes.

Yeah, no.

I rarely speak in absolutes. In my 23 years of time under tension, creative has changed so many times.

Yeah.

That is the nature of the business. It is also okay for us to say we have a lot of eyes, we wanna make a moment, because we don't know. And I say we as if I'm involved in this creative body, but I feel as if I am. You can't tell if someone's gonna run with it.

But you gotta give them a chance. You got to. We have an opportunity to mesh worlds. And gosh, we've been doing that forever, since Cindy Lauper and Liberace at one. You know?

And sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn't. And I'm not going to beat up a tree about, like, well, what was your why? Why did you not continue being on my favorite program? Maybe it's just because you had life. And that's OK.

But you know what I have to do? Pick six. I got to get back on the field. And I just can't waste my time. I can't invest my time in something that is never going to come to fruition.

I admire the fact that people criticize that like they didn't have any long-term booking for this. They might have. That shit changed. All the time. And if the critical spot is like moment of heel turn, great. You were in the ring. It was fantastic. You lost an ear for us. Appreciate it. And then... Sentence ear keeps getting hit. Afterwards, the audience's expectations were, I want a new personality, I want new gear, I want a new theme song, I want all this.

Yeah, great idea, those were all great ideas. You know it takes two years at least to get a guy over.

Yeah.

So if I'm gonna do that, and we gotta call it quits in December Yeah, I don't know if that's enough time for a turnaround So now the tools I have to work with are like play within confines develop your why? Okay, I'm in an abusive relationship and All right, that makes sense I can lean into the to the polarization of the audience and say all those things. I didn't want to say

I Again, I rarely walk down hypotheticals. Let's walk down hypothetical streets for a second. Let's walk it down. Let's say everyone that showed up at the chamber is active until August.

Okay.

That robs us of John Cena, Randy Orton. Yeah. That robs us of John Cena, CM Punk. John Cena, Ron Cena. John Cena, AJ Styles. John Cena, Logan Paul.

Yeah.

Me and you for the last one, mano y mano.

Yeah.

So yes, the story that might have been, might have had star power and gravity and who knows what, but what we got by just being like, these are the pieces left.

Yeah.

What can we build? What we got for me personally was beautiful. Was beautiful. And I'm not trying to change anybody's mind. Again, I've released art into the world and they can think how they want about it.

I'm just also saying that like, is it a wise investment in time? And what I've learned about like, credible wrestling critiques, of course it is, because you want chatter and you want clickbait. But not like, let's analyze what happened. And I was in the ring with you.

I was in the ring with Randy and Punk and Ron Cena and Logan Paul and AJ Styles. Man, it was really loud.

Yeah.

So judging by the wise man, Shawn Michaels, does that mean we did okay? I don't know. I don't know. But I, um... Man, sometimes, like, what's the next thing you're gonna do? What's all these hypothetical things?

Let's just figure out what is. Yeah. Figure out why we're doing it you're gonna do, what's all these hypothetical things.

Let's just figure out what is. Yeah. Figure out why we're doing it. And just climb that hill in front of you, man. You know? Cuz it's gonna change. They're gonna have a plan for you. And it's gonna change.

And here's the thing, the WWE audience, or the people who critique our work, they're so forgiving and understanding when the reason is injury. The WWE audience, or the people who critique our work, they're so forgiving and understanding when the reason is injury. Yeah. Someone gets injured.

They can't compete. OK, we got to give that up. Totally blows the story. Creative.

Injury. I get it.

What if it's an emotional injury? What if we deem things aren't working out? Yeah. What if somebody says, I just can't make it? Sure. Like, it just doesn't work sometimes. And instead of bitching about what we could have had,

the imaginary thing, look at what we got, dog. And when I, again, when I reflect on Saturday, I went peacefully. I closed this chapter peacefully. And man, fun, fun stuff.

You mentioned Saturday, closing the chapter. Upon hearing that you were coming on the podcast, do you know who asked to be on the podcast?

Gunther.

I was gonna say, Haku?

No, Haku is welcome on the podcast. We do welcome Haku. I'd like to talk about the situation that happened in Long Beach, New Japan, how you only beat up me in the corner while there were plenty of other bodies. But no, the man you face.

You definitely should have Gunther, and I'll tell you why. Yes, we're having him. For many, a myriad of reasons, but like I see things from a different plane. Yeah. He sees things from this plane.

Yeah.

And I love that because he is relentless in mastery of a piece of canvas.

Yeah.

Relentless. We can talk about a myriad of things.

Yeah.

You'll have a lane of conversation with him, but it'll be enthusiastic. He is, you like a flat white, he's a coffee nerd.

Yeah.

Wrestling. And with purpose, he has an idea of what it should be and an idea of what offends him.

Yes, very much. And this offends me.

I cannot tell you how much respect I have for him. And I know he's not gonna say the same thing about me and he shouldn't. And I'm okay with that.

Yeah.

It is such an honor to be able to step in there with someone who's moniker is the ring general.

Yeah.

And in my last one, if I could add a star to his uniform, someone who believes the mad is sacred, I believe the same thing. We just see it through different lenses.

Very much.

I hope you have him on. I can't wait to hear what he has to say.

I'm excited about it. As we come to a conclusion and land the plane, you say all the time, leaving it better than you found it. And I know that's big. And you always, especially now, speak very much.

It's measured and it's with the thought of growing and it's with the thought of knowing you don't know everything. But I am just asking, do you feel after Saturday and after this retirement tour that I am so insanely thankful and grateful to be part of, both professionally and personally.

Big ups to Wheatley.

Big ups to Wheatley. Do you think you left it better than you found it?

We wouldn't be doing this 10 years ago. We might be doing this, but nobody... It wouldn't be for you guys. Yeah. The amount of opportunities for performers is exponential. And the company is far more empathetic and inspirational

and like, go out there and get it. We went from trying to be accepted, and this is why it was tough to let talent flex different muscles, because man, I can't take you away from the thing. This is another benefit of less live events. You can do more things.

You can grow. If you're creative and you want to grow your tentacles, it's fine. So that's a pro of less live events. Yeah. Money's never been better for talent. Creative outlet has never been better for talent. Creative outlet has never been better for talent.

We have great partnerships now. I believe that we're accepted on far more of a global plane. Yeah. I think the overall attitude of talent is we're in the consumer service business and consumer first. I think in the days of old it was very like, I'm talent, stay the F out of my way. And I know there is some breach of personal boundaries

that everybody's trying to discover with all the new technology out there, whatever, but I think our talent is very consumer friendly and consumer aware. I think that's now an aspirational position that we've done a great job with our partnerships

of fanatics and sports licensees to make it a universal truth. That's a symbol of greatness. Economically, those who sit in the boardroom are pretty happy with where we're at. I remember we were about $6.50 a share.

We are currently not trading at that today. No. So that's kind of where I started. And that's where we're at. Consumer engagement is at an all-time high. I'm inundated every day of how I've effed up.

And also consumer admiration, consumer chatter is at an all time high. So I think from, it's not just, we always tote like, we don't give enough love to you guys out there. We always tote like, Arena Gate, merchandise record, whatever.

That's fine. That's a direct reflection on your passion. And our consumers are more engaged. And around the world, but that's because of our relationships with companies like Netflix. Companies like ESPN.

I was just about to mention ESPN. Also Netflix, now instead of, man, I am from an era where we are on live, on cable television, and on the same night, we're on at 2 a.m. in Germany. When we used to be on at 8 o'clock in Germany.

So we would draw in Germany for six months and then it dry up. What happened? Our TV deal went south. We're on Netflix. You can catch us there. We're a member of the Disney family.

You can catch us here around the effing world. It's gonna give you a chance. We got a PLE in Italy coming up and may I'm excited about. We're taking WrestleMania overseas in another year for the first time ever. All of these things, man. I mean, you got it in front of you to make it way better, but

I'd like to think that we're better off. I was sitting next to Ed Koski and Gorilla during the match and live updates on the phone from ESPN. And it didn't feel out of place. And I... I thought how special that was, very much your answer.

That rings true in terms of the business where I stand, and I stand in a very good place in the business.

Entertainment used to look at us like we're not good enough.

Right.

Sport used to look at us like we're not good enough. Right. Sport used to look at us like we're not good enough. And then they kind of both started borrowing. And honestly, my hat's off to the influencer culture. They get knocked for a lot. But man, the fact that they're successful allows both entertainment and sport

to lean into like there's a million different ways to do it. And we're influencers before influencers. We're reality TV before reality TV. We're sport drama. We're cinema. It's all things rolled into one and it just took, I don't know, when Vince by from his dad 1980 until it took 50 years for us to be on a level where everyone's cool. And because everyone's cool,

that means we can fire in a lot of lanes where before we were just a carnival business. So I started as a carny, and now we're shaking hands in some pretty important rooms, and we're shaking hands with a lot of people in the arena. I think we're pretty good.

It takes time, 23 years, you said. Time under tension, small wins dude just climb the hill in front of you I'm gonna give you this John this is a wonderful jingle brought to our friends brought to us by our friends at Wheatley American Vodka. Yeah big up to Wheatley. Big up to Wheatley and the doing it you can't sip me great bartender today thank you all very much I'm gonna ask you to replace a word in this jingle.

All right.

Why should Moscow? No, no, no.

Yeah.

Well that that's that's one part of this good.

I really play with my tool.

Well that works too. But the what we if I get enough of that. Wheatley so good I drink it and instead of neatly what does John Cena put there? Oh Wheatley so good I drink it completely. There you go completely. Yes. You can't see. I got through about a 65% of this thing on camera. Yeah we know man of your word you are going to all of it will be gone before you leave here. This is the Pat Summer all section.

Wheatley so good I drink it completely and having just completed your career and now completed your professional wrestling career at that, completed your first interview and podcast outside of it.

At the world famous Nightmare Factory, WWE ID facility where the next 17 time champion will emanate from. These hallowed halls, get yourself a live studio audience, get yourself a wonky 80s introduction. Maybe Lance Catamaran can come and do some commentary for you.

Lance?

I don't know, Lance, okay.

Yeah, I got his number somewhere.

Yeah.

Say he went back to Utica.

We'll exchange contact info.

I- I need to Utica. We'll exchange contact info. I I

Need to thank you. No, you don't need to thank me. Of course. I do. Hey, whoa, take no No, you came in the ring Saturday and thanked me and I didn't want any any piece of it No, and what everything that was going on in my head was like instinctually this is wrong. I Need to be better with words of affirmation and I need to be more coachable. Take the words of affirmation and be more coachable. Let these young men call this spot and see where we land. Yeah I think all I said to you was don't fight it and then I love you. Yeah and that's that's what got me. That's what's like I'm doing this whatever however I feel, it's the right thing to do. But I want to thank you, because you are going nose to nose.

And you go as hard, in some cases, harder than I can imagine. Your work ethic is aspirational. You will joust that. Here is my volley. You are responsible for more than yourself. For many of these years, I was running a one-man show.

And it was like, if you want to ride the wake, I'm the boat. You can get a tow and some skis, but we're doing it my way. You're a family man, a dedicated father, a wonderful husband. You got people to support and that support you. And sometimes that helps, but like like you are juggling so much more than I ever possibly could.

So thank you for overstaying. You gave me another 35 minutes. It's not lost on me. And a lot of me wanting to milk this is just, I miss my friend and I wanted a conversation with my friend. I love you too.

Thanks so much for this time. And man, you're doing it. You're doing it and I'm so fucking proud of you.

Thank you very much. And obviously thank you from me. But thank you from, I said it and I didn't really finish my thought in a sense. I feel like I'm in a good place in our industry, a good position to look out upon it. And I think I can safely say from everybody who puts on a pair of boots,

who's gonna tell you the same thing, and everybody who comes to watch those who puts on a pair of boots. Thank you very, very much.

And, no man, this is gonna be out of frame. We're gonna have to hug our knees, but I don't give a shit.

Buddy.

Love you, man. Love you, too.

Man, thank you so much.

I'm gonna go get a flat white.

I'm gonna work. I'm gonna work.

John Cena.