JRE MMA Show #174 with Terence Crawford

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Alright, champ is here. Last time I saw you, I think it was before the Majeraw fight, wasn't it? Wasn't it before that fight? Yeah, I believe so. It was before that fight. And that was just around the time you were talking about fighting Canelo and everybody was like that's crazy

He's gonna go up all the way to 168 two more weight classes above that. That's nuts Everybody's got to shut the fuck up now You know what I say skills pay the bills they do they do skills are everything man But the thing is, it's interesting. I watched both the Canelo fight and the Madrimov fight again recently,

and Madrimov looked bigger. He looked bigger than Canelo. It was really interesting.

He was a big dude.

He's a big dude. I wonder what that guy walks around at, because it's not 154.

No, not at all.

He fought at 160 his last fight. Did he? Yeah. Yeah. Really an outstanding performance against Canelo. It was, like I was telling you before, it was a great I told you so fight for me. Because there were so many of my friends that are big boxing fans that just thought Canelo

was too big, they thought it was too much of a jump, he's too experienced.

What, you got it?

I mean, you made it look, I wanna say easy. It wasn't that it was easy, but it was definitive. You know, it was such a clear victory. It was, at one point when you were pity-patting him and then firing off hard shots, I was like, oh my goodness, he's feeling it.

Yeah, I was in my element. I was in a zone, mainly because a lot of people was doubting me as well, you know, telling me I was going to get knocked out, I was too small, and I was just fighting for the money when I knew what I was capable of.

So I was just like, I'm going to show y'all what I'm really about, because this is not the first time that I done heard that, he can't do this, he can't do that.

I think your situation is very similar to when Roy Jones was in his prime. Because when Roy Jones was in his prime, everybody was saying, Roy Jones other than James Toney, Roy Jones really hadn't fought anybody. And I was like, no, he's just that much better

than everybody else. He makes it look like they're not good. If you saw them fight against everybody else, you would say these guys are awesome.

For sure, for sure. And I've been dealing with that my whole career. You know, people getting so much praise after fighting a guy that I already knocked out. You know, if they beat him Oh such-and-such beat this guy

But me is oh you fighting tomato cans or you fighting bones and things like this

I was just like it was just because you're doing it. So well, that's what it is It's just people they try to find flaws in every great performance and the flaws The only flaws they could find is, yeah, but who are these guys that he beat? But you beat great guys.

Champions.

Yeah, I mean, listen. One of the more interesting fights to me was the Benavidez fight. I re-watched that again recently too. That was a good fight.

Especially that, whew,

because there's so much tension. There's so much shit talking and tension and so many emotions.

And he can fight.

He can fight.

You know, a lot of people, they looking at his injury, and he fought no different from before or after the injury. He fought the same, you know, so that's another thing that they're going to say're gonna say oh well he had got shot in a leg and if he didn't and this would have happened or that would have happened and I'm like he fought the same like if you know boxing and you see

him box nothing changed from his boxing standpoint he wasn't a mover he wasn't this guy that used his legs As a defense or offense, so I just take it as a grain of salt

Yeah, I'm sure that injury sucked, but he he fought the same and he fought well I mean he's a tough guy. He fought really well. It took me 12 rounds Yeah, listen and but whoo that right uppercut in that 12th round to put him down. I was like, oh my goodness I remember watching that fight live. I was like, oh there it is. There it is. You found him

Yeah, he he had good head movement, you know tough guy He was he was ducking them hooks and them straight straight punches. So I was just like I I gotta switch it up

Well, also he believed in himself for sure. Yeah, I mean he came into gotta switch it up. Well, also, he believed in himself. For sure, definitely. He came into that fight to win.

Oh, definitely, most definitely.

It's beautiful to watch you get what you deserve, because I felt like, man, if you retired after the Spence fight, I don't think people that are casuals would really appreciate your skill set. The people inside boxing, the people that really know boxing did

but I felt like too many of the casuals just talk so much shit and so the The Canelo fight was the cherry on top of the sundae

Yeah, it was in even now a lot of people saying oh well Canelo's washed. He old. And I'm like, well, I'm older than him. Like, what are we talking about? You know, so I just love it, you know, because it just shows what level I'm on, you know, for everybody to already know what happened, and then they try to take what happened

and make it a reason why it happened. So I'll just be like, man, it's cool.

That's boxing though, right? That's sports in general. You're always gonna have that. There's always gonna be a bunch of sideline people that talk a lot of shit. But for a lot of fighters, it's later in their career,

especially when they're avoided or they have difficulty signing big fights, it's later in their career that people really appreciate them. Like, think about Bernard. It wasn't until Bernard Hopkins beat Felix Trinidad that people were like, oh shit,

I think he was like 37 or 36 when he fought Trinidad, and a lot of people were saying he's washed up, it's over, and when he knocked out Trinidad, everybody was like, oh, okay.

Yeah, yeah, I've been calling out everybody since the beginning you know they created a whole side of the street because of me you know I'm with a different promoter it was always something you know and everybody always blamed me but now look at everybody now. All the promoters working together now. Why couldn't they work together when it was my turn to shine? But it is what it is, and life happened,

and I'm happy the way it happened because I did it my way, and I don't think too many other fighters can say that.

That's true, yeah. It's a dirty business, you know, the business of promoters and keeping guys away from guys and making sure that their fighter avoids certain fighters. It's always been that way, you know, and it's unfortunate for the fans because there's so many like the big one for a long time was David Benavidez and Canelo.

Everybody wants to see that fight, and they just can't figure out a way to make it happen. And you gotta think someone's avoiding somebody, and it's not Benavidez.

Nah, not at all. You know, I just think Canelo, in a sense, he know how big Benavidez gonna come in the ring. You know, Benavidez is a great fighter, you know, but he's a big fighter. He's a tall fighter, you know,

and I just think Canelo knows, like, why would I want to get in the ring with this guy that's gonna be massive come fight time, and I'm not that big of a guy at all. I've been doing all this with my skills Because because Canelo's not a big guy. He's been fighting

Big guys his whole career. Yeah, you know and beating them with skill You know, so you got to tip your hat off to Canelo and what he's accomplished. Absolutely in 5-7 going up to 175 and fighting these big guys and

actually winning. Knocked out Kovalev. Yeah. I mean it was Kovalev later in his career, but he's still Kovalev. For sure. And then having the courage to fight Bivol in his prime. For sure. I think that's the fight that probably kept us from getting the Benavidez fight, the Bivol fight. Because I think after that fight, he's like, okay, this is a little big. Because B-ball, not just big, but he's got that Russian style,

light on the feet, in and out, in and out, in and out. It's a difficult style to handle. And the only guy to beat Betterbeave was another beast.

Yeah, so I think him knowing that, and then I think the disrespect that he got from Benavidez had persuaded him to go elsewhere. But there's been many boxers from the past that didn't fight people that they wanted to fight. Right.

You know, look at Sugar Ray Leonard and Aaron Pryor. They never got that fight. Mm-hmm. So, and I just won a mini. So it's gonna be like that.

Well, it always seems at the end that it all worked out the way it was supposed to, you know, and that's how it felt like for me after your Canelo victory. Like, this is like, you know, all the bullshit, it's like now everybody has to shut the fuck up. It's like all the bullshit's gone.

It's like now everybody's gotta give you your just do. Because that was a stellar championship performance. I mean, that was one of the all-time great performances because it was a Canelo that's, you know, you can say whatever you want, I think he's still in his prime.

And you just outboxed him. And you outboxed him, I mean, think about it, 40 to 47, 54, all the way up to 68, and you outboxed him. 35 first. That's right, 35 first, right? That's right. That's crazy. That's crazy, going up from 35 to 68

and outboxing the champ. And the way you did it, too. It was so skillful. It was so beautiful to watch, man. When you're a fan of skillful, intelligent boxing, that was such a good fight to watch. Because, you know, Canelo's a dangerous guy.

He's a dangerous guy, he's a heavy puncher, and he puts a lot of power into his punches. He's kind of changed over the years and really relied more on his power, but man, he knows how to land it.

And when he lands it, he puts people in a lot of trouble. And, whew, he just... There was this one move that you were doing where you were throwing a left hand and then a quick hook behind it before you even brought the hand back.

So he was going to counter and you were throwing a quick hook. I was like, oh, that is so pretty. That is so pretty.

You know Canelo is a great counter puncher. You know, so you got to beat him to it. You got to counter the counter at times.

Did that fight play out the way you thought it was gonna play out?

Yeah, most definitely.

Exactly the way you thought it.

Most definitely. We knew what we was up against. You know, when I went to his fight against Berlanga and against the guy that's on his team, I forgot his name, Munguia, Munguia. When I was with Turkey, I said Turkey.

He came and beat me. Just watching him from 135 to now, like live, looking at him, I'm just like, I can beat this dude. Like, my confidence is getting more and more and more. And his last fight in Saudi Arabia, I was like, yeah, he can't fight like that against me.

Which he didn't, which he definitely rose his game, but I just believed in myself that much that nothing was gonna stop me from getting that victory that night.

The fight in Saudi Arabia, he looked like under-motivated.

Yeah.

It wasn't a big enough challenge for him. He didn't look like he was in the same kind of shape physically, like when you look at him.

He wasn't, you know, and it happens, you know. That's why I always train like this is the toughest fight of my career, because it is. Every fight is and you never know what to expect with those type of fighters that nobody know about. Right, right, right. Them be the the ones that sneak up on you and you know you got to be ready for him but he didn't come to fight he moved the whole fight and you know Canelo was frustrated and he was just like ah man

this dude didn't come to do anything. Right, he came to survive. Yeah so I could see

where he was frustrated at. Yeah well he probably thought he didn't belong in there with Canelo either right you know so he probably said listen if I just keep moving I can get out of here with my dignity intact and just never get hit real good.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's fascinating now because before that fight you were looked at as one of the best boxers today. Now you're looked at as one of the best fighters ever. And it's interesting how that changes. How people now look at your body. And then they look at Errol Spence

before you fought him and go, Errol Spence can fight, man. He's a really good fighter. And a lot of people discredited your victory over him because of that car accident that he had, and maybe he wasn't as good as we thought.

But now with the Canelo victory, you are in this rare air of, you know, mentioned as one of the greatest of all time. You know, there's a handful of guys, there is no, it's very difficult to say the greatest of all time. Because people want to go all the way back to Sugar Ray Robinson, they, you know, they

throw Floyd in the mix, prime time Roy Jones, there's all these different fighters they put as the greatest of all time, but you are now in that conversation. That's gotta be nice.

It's beautiful, you know, especially all the hard work that I done put in to be here at that pinnacle of the sport. You know, since I was seven years old, I've been boxing, I've been fighting, I've been a fighter since day one.

So when people compare me to like Sugar Ray Robinson and Floyd Mayweather and Sugar Ray Leonard, comparing me to who will win, who will win, that just let me know that I did my job well in the sport.

Oh, you absolutely did.

Now, are you definitely done done? It's definitely over? I don't got nothing. So I told a couple of my close friends, I said okay, since 2014 I've been fighting for something. A title. I won my first title in 2014, March of 2014. Ever since then I've been fighting for titles, undisputed, titles, undisputed, undisputed, titles, undisputed. Like just everything that I've been fighting for.

Now I just come back and it's just like, all right, what's the motivation? Just money? You know? Like, all right, so what is on top of that? You know, because my thing was the money going to come. I was taking pay cuts after pay cuts after pay cuts because I knew what I wanted my legacy

to be when I finished boxing. I wanted to be remembered as one of the greatest champions of all time, you know, and I think I did that, you know, so now it's like this last fight that I had, the height of it, there's no better finish than that, to me. Yeah. What was on the line, coming from where I came from, all the odds that were stacked against me, all the things that I had to go through

and camp to get to that fight, you know, it was just like, man, you did everything right. So what can top that?

I love that. I love when fighters go out on top like that. And for a fighter to go out like you have with all your Championship experience all the way classes you competed in Undefeated and beat Canelo another all-time great. I mean that is that is a perfect finale For a spectacular career. It's pretty dope for sure and go out with your faculties intact, your health intact, plenty of money.

It's nice.

It's beautiful because nobody knows what us fighters adore to get to the point to entertain the fans. You know, we go through a lot. You know, we put our body through a lot. And then when it's all said and done, when our body broke down to the point where we can't take care of ourself, they don't care about us.

They're going to say, oh, well, he was once a good champion, and we go to the fights. You see a lot of old fighters showing up to the fights, and people just walk past them. You know? They're on to the fights and people just walk past them. You know, they on to the next. Oh, let's see the young fighter, you know? And it's like, they use you up till you have nothing left, then they forget about you.

You know, so it's very critical for these fighters to think about their health first because once it's over with, it's over with and you can't get your health back. You can always get money elsewhere, but once you can't, your mind is messed up, it's over with.

That's such a good lesson for young fighters to see too, to see a guy like yourself be fully dedicated, so disciplined, get through the whole thing, get out, on top, and done. And so many fighters have said that, and then a couple years go by, their identity is wrapped up in fighting.

They go, man, I think I got one more in me, and then maybe they're buying a lot of shit. That's the real problem.

It's always gonna be that, you know, I got another one in me. I got another one in me. Because they miss that high of all the fans chatting their name and everybody, you know, cameras, lights, and you know, they miss it. You know, but I was always that type of person. I didn't care about all that.

I brought it.

Y'all can have the lights, just pay me and I'll go under the rock somewhere, you know, take care of my family. You know, I never was a guy that wanted to be all up in the media and wanted to be the center of attention.

How come?

Cause that's just me. I already knew what I was doing it for. I never was doing it to be famous You know, I don't walk around with a whole entourage to get noticed, you know, I'll be under the radar

I do like that You show up by yourself but one time you showed up at one of the UFC's and someone said you were Kendrick Lamar and they put it on the fucking Screen and I didn't catch it, because I was doing the broadcast, but I was like, are you guys out of your fucking,

you don't know who Terrence Crawford is? And you're in combat sports? This is crazy.

I think they did that on purpose.

No, no way, no way. They had to. No, no, no did not do that on purpose. No one in the UFC would ever disrespect you like that. No one would disrespect you like that. No chance.

Yeah, I was sitting next to everybody and I was like, did they really just do that?

No, they did not do that on purpose. That was just some dumbass that thought that you were Kendrick Lamar for some reason. Yeah. It was so stupid. And then I think they corrected it later in the broadcast. I Don't know who it was, right? I didn't want to know I'd yell at him This episode is brought to you by uber eats big news Aldi is now on uber eats and you get 20% off your first grocery order with the code new Aldi 26 so whether your fridge is empty and you're too tired to shop,

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Terms apply. See app for details. But that's, you roll very low-key like you don't show up with an entourage You know a lot of times you just by yourself Yeah, you know and that's unusual for a guy who's achieved as much as you've achieved

Yeah, it would be so like surprised that You know, they'll see me in the airport, they'll be like, you by yourself? I'm like, yeah, yeah. They'll be like, man, this is crazy. I would always imagine you with security guards, big entourage, I don't know, man, that's just a bill. You know, you gotta pay all them people to be around you.

So, you know, I'm chilling. Yeah, I mean, every time you've showed up at the studio, you show up by yourself. Yeah, I mean...

All that other bullshit, all the attention and stuff, that's...

And the respect of people in boxing that really know. Yeah, for sure.

Yeah, that's what it's all about, and you've got that. Now everybody has to shut the fuck up.

Yeah, they do.

Everybody has to shut the fuck up, even the people that said that, oh, Canelo's, stop.

You were the same people saying Canelo was gonna stop him. Yeah, same people that saying Aerospence was gonna stop me, same people that saying Majimoff was gonna stop me, and so forth. So it just got to the point where they just, they can't, they gotta accept it now. It's like, man, I've been hating on this dude for so long, you know, and he's just been proving me wrong time after time. It's like, let me just give him his flowers.

Forget it.

That's beautiful. And for young fighters, it's such a good thing to watch. It's so good for young fighters to have an inspirational figure, to have someone who really does it, like does it perfectly,

and does it in a way that is very unusual, because you're one of the best switch hitters since Marvin Hagler, if not the best, you know and like that God that is such an underrated skill It's so funny one of the times you were in here you were telling me that his coach your coach told you stop doing that

He was like you need focus on fighting Orthodox the right way instead of switching the South Pole. I was just like I Switched out for again. Then it was just like, he was like, all right, well, if you gonna do that, we gonna train like that. I was like, all right, let's train like it, because I'm gonna keep switching,

because it just came so natural. I being there, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, and then I just switched, like, bop, bop, bop. Yes. Man, you know, it was just, I win, and I win. He was like, all right, we gonna fight like, we gonna train like that.

Well, it's such a underrated aspect of boxing, if you can do it, because you have to recalibrate where everything is coming from every time you switch.

Different angles, all that.

In MMA, it's become commonplace. In the beginning of MMA, it was a lot of people would stand one way or the other. And now, a large percentage of these young guys coming up are constantly switching, because it hides combinations, it hides different techniques. There's so many different things you could do in MMA, because you're switching and kicking,

you're switching and punching, you're kicking, and then now you're in southpaw, and you're throwing left hands instead of right hands. There's so much overload of the mind where you have to calculate all these different things and if you don't spar on a regular basis with a very crafty guy who switches a lot, it could fuck you up inside the cage.

Yeah, because some people, they have better chances on one side than the other. And then when you switch on them, it's just like, oh, I hate fighting Southpaws. Right. You know, and it just do something to their brain, you know, because they might be slower moving one way than the other way.

Well, everything looks so weird when all of a sudden the jab's on the right side and the left, and then your brain has to like... Gotta worry about the hook. Yeah instead of the straight everything's different. Yeah. Yeah, it's I mean I wonder how many young fighters are going to see your example and start training that very early in their career now because I think it's

the the Conventional wisdom was that you have one stance whether it's Southpaw or Orthodox stick with that There's a few outliers like Hagler, but for the most part stick with that, but I don't think that's the way to go I think I mean, I think great fighters have stayed in one stance But I think the way to go is having the ability to switch up. There's always

you know beneficial if You can have it and not need it then the needy ain't got it.

Yes.

You know, like, okay, it's cool that I don't need it for this fight, but I got it in my bag just in case I have it.

Yes.

You know, and that's like me, I got it all.

Yeah, do you think you gotta train people when you're done?

I be training a little bit,'ll be helping out at the gym, but my patience ain't there yet. Like, I get frustrated, and I have to remember, like my coach, Bomek, say, everybody's not you, bud. You know, everybody don't adapt like you.

Everybody not as athletic like you, you know, so you can't be frustrated if they not getting something, like, as fast as you, you know, so you can't be frustrated if they not getting something like as fast as you getting it. You been doing this since you was seven. Some of these kids that started when they was teenagers, you know, so you got to give

them grace, you know, and take your time with them. And some of them, you know, they flatfooted and you just got to train them in today's style. Everybody not going in today's style. Everybody not gonna have your style. So when he explained that to me, I was just like, yeah, you right.

You know, let me back up a little bit and just tell them what I see. Yeah. You know, more so than trying to coach them into being this fighter that I want them to be.

Being a version of you.

Yeah.

Yeah. That's gotta be difficult, right? Because everybody does have a different style. And you're never gonna convince some fighters to fight your way. But the wisdom that you can bestow on young fighters, it's like, there's a lot of great fighters,

like Freddie Roach that had some boxing matches but was never like an elite boxer, but still was a great coach. And, but to have an elite fighter to be a coach, it's like there's an element of that. First of all, there's an element from the young guy

coming up, like you wanna impress. You got Terrence Crawford in your corner, you wanna impress him. Buddy McGurk did a fantastic job, and he became a great trainer. There's a bunch of fighters that have done it,

but it's like, I always wonder, because I feel like there's so much you have to offer to these young guys. There's so much small minutiae, intimate details of what you're thinking and what's going on that would completely change the way

a young fighter sees certain exchanges?

Yeah, for sure. And I try to help them on that aspect when they in the ring or when they on the bag or when they hitting the mitts, shadowboxing, just little details. I come in the gym and you see the little kids, they see me and they look to the corner and they hit the back. Yeah, they get fired up.

You can see they're trying to get my attention. I come over there and give them some little wisdom, you know, and they're appreciative. But it's good that they see me in the gym all the time. You know, my son wrestling next door and they over here boxing and I'm both one side and the other side so.

Your son just won a wrestling title. Yeah he just won state as a freshman. That's incredible. Yeah. That's incredible. That's so amazing.

Does, what does he want to do? He want to go D1. He wanna. Yeah. He told me that Saturday after the tournament we on our way to the Ryan Garcia fight. He said, Dad, I want to go to the Olympics. Wow. I said, you want to? He said, what kind of mind state is that?

I said, you gonna go? I said, you got to have it in your mind. You going. You can't say you want to go. You got to say, I'm going to the Olympics. That way you know you're already programming it, you know, for the future.

How did you learn that mentality?

Man, been doubting my whole life. You know, been doubting my whole life, and my coach, Midge Minor, used to always say, la-dee-da-dee, we fight anybody. They ain't fought you yet. You know, and I just carried that on my shoulders.

Like, anybody you put in front of me, they ain't fought me yet, so you can't tell me they can beat me until they beat me. So just like my son, like, hey, you gotta have that confidence that whatever you say you wanna do, you gonna go out and do it,

but you gotta put the work in first.

So in that sense, doubters give you fuel. Oh yeah, Oh yeah. There's a lot of people like that. A lot of people like that. They live off the haters.

They fuel me up. And then especially when... It's crazy because like Majumov and Canelo, they were so respectful, you know, and I respect them. You know, I've been a fan of Majumov coming from Uzbekistan and learning about him and hearing about him. I've always been a fan of Canelo, since I can remember. I didn't

have that killer heart in my heart. I wanted to beat him, but, like, my other fights, I was like, man, I want to knock this dude out.

Like Benavidez?

Yeah, I wanted to knock him out. Like, so, like, even in training, like, I didn't have that rage. Like, this dude talking shit. Like, he never, they never got under my skin. It was, like, I wanna whoop they ass, but I didn't wanna inflict pain.

I wanna knock him out.

There was one fighter that you fought at 140. His name is escaping me. But you stopped him in the fifth.

Yes. Yeah, I wanted to knock him out.

Oh boy.

Yeah, and I was so mad. When you watched that fight, when they stopped it, I miss like two crazy hooks. And I just was like, man, why couldn't I land him? Like he would have went to sleep.

Like, that's how I was saying.

You wouldn't have, you would just stop it. Yeah, I wouldn't have put him to sleep. But you know, it's a sport and it is what it is. And I'm happy that we all could go home to our family and talk about it, you know, years down the line.

Yeah.

Well, that is the danger of the sport. That's why it's so different than every other sport. It's like you're legitimately putting your life on the line.

Yeah. And a lot of people don't understand that until something happens. Right. You know, us boxers, a lot of boxers have died in that ring. A lot of boxers have died in that ring. A lot of boxers have went in the ring one way and left it a different way. You know, so when a lot of fans, they criticize boxers

for doing what the sport is for, and that's boxing, you know, us boxers, like, you're not even here getting your brains beat out. So what you consider boring, we consider us doing what the sport is meant to do, is box. You know, and I think a lot of fans don't give a lot of fighters, they just do, for boxing.

You know, like Floyd, like Shakur, you know, when they pure boxers. Yes. You know, they want to see people bleeding, battered, knocked out, you know, but they not thinking about the aftermath and the aftereffects of them fighters going to the hospital, blood on their brains, piss and blood and things like that. Like, your body is not meant to be beat on like that.

Right. You know, so they just looking at, oh, well I paid this money, y'all gonna go in there and kill each other. You know, and I think that's wrong.

Yeah, well, you're always going to have morons in this world. You're always going to have casuals. You're always going to have people that don't appreciate what they're seeing. But like, when I see a performance like Shakur versus Tia Female that last fight,

like, that was art. That was art.

That sneaky jab where it was like half speed and then popping him with the jab and you could see Lopez just couldn't get out of the way of it. He didn't know what to do. It was beautiful. It barely got hit. It was beautiful. And things like that.

You know, you see two high caliber fighters, but you just see one just on a different level because of his boxing IQ. You know, not because Tio Fimo didn't belong in the ring with him, it's just that Shakur IQ and his boxing ability is up here. You know, he didn't have to sit in front of him and trade shots and give Tio Fimo the opportunity

to land a good shot and change the outcome of the fight. One shot, I don't care who you is, in a good, in the right spot, at the right moment, anybody can get knocked out.

Without a doubt. Yeah, without a doubt. I mean, the human brain is not designed to get punched. It's just not designed that way, especially big punchers. And when you see a guy like Tiafemo, Tiafemo can crack. He's a big dude and he's a world champion. And it was one of the most lopsided performances ever, where you see one world champion challenging

another world champion.

For sure.

I mean, it was art to me. I was like, every moment of that fight, like up until the 12th round, I was just like, there was multiple times I was like, oh, oh my God, it was just beautiful. It was just, I love watching a guy at the pinnacle, you know, watching a guy where everybody else is gonna go, wow, I didn't think it was gonna go like this.

Because you know, Tiaf Fimo's a super aggressive guy, beat Lomachenko, he's got a nasty jab, throws big power in his punches, he's tough as hell. You know, a lot of people are like, this is gonna be a tough fight. And Shakur just, and he didn't run, he stood right in front of him.

That's the other thing, he wasn't getting hit, he was right in That was art. That's boxing at the highest level. And I'm fascinated, because now they're talking about him and Ryan Garcia. I am fascinated to watch that fight. Because that's a... Shakur's a different animal.

Ryan looked amazing in that fight. I mean, he looked amazing. I mean, he looked so fast, and it was a beautiful fight to watch. But that's an interesting fight. I mean, he looked so fast, and it was a beautiful fight to watch.

But, uh, that's an interesting fight.

I liked that fight a lot.

You're dealing with a whole different kind of skill set.

Yeah, Shakur... Listen. and he went out there and did it. Ryan looked spectacular in his fight for what it was. I don't think barrios came to fight, you know. Ryan was boxing great, you know. The jab was working. Overhand right was working,

and he looks out at me at the end and says, you see my jab? I said, man, it was working. That jab was beautiful because we don't, we're not used to seeing Ryan jab. Right.

You know, or boxing for that matter. You know, he was, he was boxing beautiful, beautiful, you know, and I commend him on that. Like he, he aced it, you know, but when it come to Shakur Shakur is not a burials. You know Shakur got a jab Shakur got head movement Shakur got defense Shakur knows range Shakur have good legs, so I

Look at that fight like it's not gonna be as a competitive fight like everybody think because if Ryan get careless he's gonna get countered all

day. If he gets careless I don't I think he'll fight very different than he fought with Barrios. I think he's got to. Barrios just couldn't keep up with the speed I mean Ryan's speed is extraordinary. He relies on it a lot

But I mean that's not a knock that's just like if you had it you

Everybody should rely on that man. That's not nuts. It's of course a different

Well, a lot of people thought Devin Haney was different though Right a lot of people thought Devin Haney was gonna give him real problems when he dropped Devin early with a left hook Everybody's like oh, this is different. I wish he didn't have a positive drug test in that fight, because that fucking tainted everything.

They know each other far too well. I think him and Devin fought each other the most out of all of them. You know, Shakur and Ryan fought as well, which Shakur won all the times that they fought, but I just think, you know, him and Devin, the history of it, Devin came in there overconfident. Ryan, you know, been juiced up,

you know, added a low whatever it did, but You know, you can't take it away from him landing the punches that he was landing. You can't take away from the performance that you know he was he was doing but When you when you want steroids that add to

Definitely add something. What was he? What did he get pop for? Do you remember? I don't even know I just find out what he got pop for it was a very low level of whatever he got pop for And a lot of people say all the levels it doesn't it wouldn't even matter. It's such a small level Yeah, the problem is there's a lot of ways you can mask The amount of steroids you have in your system, and that's one of the reasons why the UFC banned IVs Because you can flush your body out if you super hydrate with IVs

I don't know what what you're supposed to put in the IV But there's some nutrients that you can put in IVs that will mask any traces of performance enhancing drugs, which is why UFC, you have to hydrate. This is drug-free sports policy and USADA's policy. You have to hydrate only with drinking liquids. You can't hydrate with an IV.

And when you use an IV, which I don't know, were they allowed to use IVs to rehydrate?

I don't know.

When you use IVs to rehydrate you can mask a lot of shit So if he did use an IV to rehydrate and he only showed a trace amount that's still That what did he what did he test positive for? Lost which I miss which fighter you're talking about Garcia Oh, that's right Ryan Garcia when he fought Devin Haney the fight got overturned right it was a no contest Which is very unfortunate because it was a clear victory, one of his best victories ever.

Dropped Devin, had him in trouble a bunch of times. Dropped him how many times? A few. Yeah, a few times. He looked fucking great in that fight. And I think, unfortunately, you know, that positive drug test just...

Osterene?

Osterene, yeah.

Okay.

I think, I think, you know, both of those fights is great fights for Ryan. Ryan is in a great position right now. Oh, yeah. You know, he, he, he got the Rowley unification fight. You know, he lost, he lost to Rowley. Right.

He got that fight that he can, you know, try to avenge in a unification fight, you know, he lost he lost to Rolly right? He got that fight that I can you know Try to avenge and a unification fight Rolly look great in that fight. He got Devin. Yeah in a unification fight he got Shakur Spectacular fight so Ryan's in a great position right if Jav Gervonta comes back, he's got that rematch. I don't think Gervonta is gonna fight him

without having those type of claws.

The rehydration claws?

Yeah, bring him down, and you gotta do this, and you gotta do that.

That's crazy, those claws are crazy. Can't weigh more than X when you get into the ring. Fuck off with that.

That's like with me and Canelo. I'm like, man, listen, I'm challenging you. You can weigh whatever you want. I don't want no excuses. You know, hey, it is what it is. All you gotta do is weigh 168. Yeah, the day before.

And then after that, it is what it is.

Well, that's the same shit that Floyd made Canelo do.

Yeah.

That's where they got it from. Yeah. That's where they got it from, you know what I mean?

The thing is, these guys see that big number, they see those purses, and they go, oh, I can fight good. I'll just get a little smaller beforehand. It's just not smart.

Yeah, your body's not gonna react when it's not fully hydrated.

No, not chance. It's the worst way to fight. You know, I think guys who cut a tremendous amount of weight, they do themselves a terrible disservice. They really do. I think it's terrible for your body. What's the most you ever had to cut? The most I ever had to cut was probably like 25. Whoo, that's a lot. What weight was that, 35 or 40? 47. 47? Really? Yeah.

Wow.

My last fight was Spence. And when did you start your cut? Whew, months.

Months out?

Yeah, months out. So the week of the fight, what were you at?

Probably like 152, 154.

Oh, okay. That's very good. That's very reasonable. See, MMA fighters do it in a fucked up way.

Them last couple of pounds is tough.

Yeah.

Them last couple of pounds are tough and I just knew that it was over with. I knew it was over with, you know, but the hardest cut ever was when I was at 135. That was like killing me. What were you walking around at back then? Probably like in the 50s. Like 55. And so would you just lower your

calories in camp? Everything. I gotta change my whole diet. And then the week of the fight, what did you weigh when you were fighting 35?

I don't even, man I was cutting like probably like seven pounds the week of the fight.

See that, in the MMA world, that's nothing. These guys are cutting crazy pounds.

Because they weigh to the last minute. I know a lot of MMA fighters, they wait to the last minute. But mine, I gotta start gradually because I never want to go in there and just tank. So I gotta change my eating habits up months,

like two months in advance. That way I can get my body used to being lighter and performing at that weight class. Because if not, you're doing more hurtin' yourself than good because you're taking all the fluid out of your brain.

Exactly.

You know, and yeah, I couldn't be at no disadvantage like that.

And it makes you more vulnerable to getting knocked out. Yeah. Definitely. I mean, Alex Pereira was the craziest example in the UFC. He was fighting at 185 and he would weigh 225 when he fought. Which is bananas.

Yeah, it's crazy.

I mean, that's 40 fucking pounds. I think that's why I got, uh, when, when, uh, not when I fought Gamboa, when I got hurt, you know, in the ninth round, but I stopped him in the ninth round, but that was part of that. Boom, caught me with a clean shot. Boom, I was like, oh shit. You know? And to this day, that's the only fight that I got hurt like that ever.

You know? A lot of people thought Mean Machine drive me, Mean Machine hurt me. I didn't got ... Mean Machine hit me with some hard shots, some clean hard shots, but nothing was like that, Gambola.

Like my whole leg locked up, and I was just like, man, I gotta to grab this dude you know and and you think the weight cut had a lot to do with that yeah definitely what weight was that at 135 yeah you're a big guy man that's a lot of weight cut yeah it's that's the the most problematic part of MMA for sure I was actually just having a conversation with the hunter Campbell about that they're trying to devise strategies to discourage these big weight cuts

and trying to figure out what to do.

It was crazy though because I always been skinny. You know, a lot of people they say, oh he's a weight bully, he's this, he's that. And it's like bro, I came from 132. I wasn't at, you know, you see a lot of these fighters, they in the amateurs, they, like Sean Porter,

he was at 165, then he went to 147. You know, a lot of people, they was heavier, then they dropped weight. I was at 132, and I moved up to go at 135, you know, as a professional. And I was cool with the weight.

Then I just started filling out once I started, you know, working out more and doing a little strength and condition, and I just started, my body started filling out. So I kept moving up, but the weight that I was at with Canelo, that's the most comfortable time of my career to be able to eat whatever I want, not focus on weight, just work out.

Did you feel much better in the ring because of that?

I did, I did, because that was the only time that I never, like I had to eat to keep my weight on.

Wow.

And it's like, I'm not used to doing that. I'm used to, you know, we got portions. It's like, they feed me big meals. I'm like, I can't eat all this. But so that was the one camp that it was like, the weight wasn't an issue.

Do you have a nutritionist in camp? And so how do they do your meals? Is it all based on X amount of protein, X amount of carbs, it's all weighed out?

All of that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And then they weigh you, check you, make your body fat?

They ask me what I weigh in the morning, every morning.

What did you weigh like when you got into the ring? I think I was like 72. Okay, it's just a few pounds.

Yeah.

Nothing.

Yeah. Yeah. I didn't weigh, I probably was a couple of pounds. Yeah.

The only difference in MMA is obviously the grappling. You know, and that's, it plays a big advantage if you can get a lot of weight on a guy. That's why a lot of guys do it. It's also, MMA is very flawed. And one of the most flawed aspects of it

is the weight classes. There's just not enough weight classes. There's giant leaps. Like, between 205, the next weight class is heavyweight. So it's 205 to 265. 185, the next weight class is 205.

That's 20 pounds. That's nuts. 170 to 185, 15 fucking weight class is 205. That's 20 pounds. That's nuts. 170 to 185, 15 fucking pounds is a lot.

A lot.

That's a lot.

7 pounds is a lot.

55 to 70. Yeah, 7 pounds is a lot.

A lot of people don't know, but I was way stronger at 47 than I was at 40. And that's only 7 pounds. Right. 27 pounds right that's seven pounds of muscle that I don't have to cut right Yeah, and a lot of people think oh, it's just seven pounds or 135 to 140. There's this five pounds all that matters

Yes, it matters a lot and for fighters. There's a lot of guys that are tweeners. They're too big for 155 They can't make the weight and then they're too small for 170 Yes, cuz at 170 you got guys that are never going to make 155. They're coming down from 210 and they're getting to 170 and they're jacked.

I know somebody that was coming out from 230 fighting at 165.

Oh my God. Who was that?

I ain't going to say his name.

Well, Anthony Rumble Johnson was the craziest one that I ever saw.

230, 165. Say his name. Well, Anthony Rumble Johnson was the craziest one that I ever saw. 230.

Anthony Rumble Johnson was 230 and he was fighting at 170. I ran into Rumble once, rest in peace. He died a few years back. I ran into Rumble once when he was fighting at 170 and he was in between fights and I ran into him at the hotel and he was a fucking heavyweight. He was so big, I couldn't couldn't I go what do you weigh? Yeah, and he said 230

I'm like dude. That's crazy. You have to cut 60 pounds Yeah, but it was killing him it was killing him like literally to the brink of death the day before a fight That's nuts that doesn't make any sense And they were all doing it because they all felt like they had to be the biggest guy in there. Yeah

Not smart no, I think

For MMA, they really need to recognize this that one of the things that's gonna stop weight clots You get these this idea of only having eight champions. I think in MMA is very very limiting It's also limiting the potential of a guy like you to go up and up and up and win championship after championship in

MMA if you win two belts, that's crazy. That's the only thing anybody's ever classes is right far apart

Exactly. It's the only the only people that have ever done it have done it in two weight classes No one's done it three. You know, Pereira might try to do it at heavyweight. He might try to go up to heavyweight now because he's walking around at, like, 240, which is crazy because he used to fight at 185. It's nuts. But if they had more options and they had more weight classes,

I think we'd have more competitive fights. We'd have less extreme weight cutting. We'd have healthier fighters, just more champions is better. I mean there's a lot of guys that could be champions. There's not a weight class for them. If there's a 20 pound gap, 20 pounds is so much. If I put 20 pounds of bone and muscle on this table and show you what it looks like, you'd be like

whoa, that's a crazy amount of mass. And the difference between losing that, gaining that, being in the middle of that, it's pretty significant. So for a lot of fighters, they're just, their frame doesn't line up perfectly with whatever the division is.

It just, they don't have a chance.

Yeah.

It sucks.

It does.

It drives me nuts. It drives me nuts. Well, I think extreme weight cutting is the worst thing that's ever happened to the sport of MMA and Any sport any sport but in boxing it's not as extreme. No one really does it Jerry McClellan used to do it He got real big in between fights real big he was but that cost him in the Nigel Ben fight I think that probably is what led to his bleeding of the brain. That's probably one of the contributing factors

to why he's, you know, he's so hurt right now. You know, and that fucked Roy up too, because back at the time, that was his biggest rival, was Gerald. And, you know, Roy was always like, I do not want that ever happening to me, you know?

Yeah, like, man, like I say, when you lose that weight, and you don't understand, you losing that fluid in the back of your brain, you know?

And it takes days for that fluid to fully return to your brain, especially when you're just drinking the water and not IV rehydrating.

It's tough. It's tough.

Yeah, it's, uh... But, but I mean boxing's been around longer. They've got it figured out and unfortunately or fortunately the UFC dominates MMA and they only have eight weight classes so everybody else only has eight weight classes. California has instituted a bunch of different weight classes but nobody, UFC has a heavyweight limit. You know limit crazy that is

That's stupid. It's stupid, right? It definitely these people. I'm just now learning about that. You didn't know

Yeah, imagine he's got to dehydrate himself. He's got to lose 20 fucking pounds just to make the weight class. That's retarded. It doesn't make any sense at all at all It's the heavyweight. It's the heaviest weight We can go remember value of when he was fighting a vendor Holyfield. Oh my shoes God He had to be over 300 pounds. He was Jack. He was a literal giant an actual giant. Yeah

So I think that's something you need to talk to Dana about. Nobody listens to me, bro.

They don't, they don't listen to me. They think I'm crazy.

Well, we gotta petition it then.

Oh, I have a bunch of wacky rules that I want to institute, so I understand why they don't wanna listen to me. I would throw the whole sport up in the air.

I think these combat sports, it gotta come from the fighters. You know, just like boxing, I think if the fighters come together, they can make anything happen. The fighters don't understand the level of power that they carry because they think, oh, since they cutting the check, they got the power.

You know, but they can't cut the check without us. You know, but it's the fighters that need the money that makes It hard right because the fighters that already got the money They can make a stand for something but the fighters that doesn't they like well you can do that I got to provide for my family you can take a chance of going at the organization for a year or however

long it's gonna last, but who gonna pay my bills? Who gonna put food on my family table while we doing this, while we making this stand? So it's a little tougher for them to make that stand than a person that's already established. Yes. And I think that's where the seesaw effect happens with boxing and UFC because there's a lot of-

Well, UFC is more extreme because it's really just the UFC. It's really, I mean, even Francis Ngannou, right? Francis Ngannou, one of the most devastating fighters to ever compete in MMA UFC heavyweight champion

They couldn't get a deal signed and he winds up leaving and goes to the PFL, but nobody's watching

Nobody watches nobody cares

He knocked out some dude in the PFL and nobody cared is he making more money? Yes

He care he goes. That's why he did it. Yeah That's all that made a great deal with the PFL and then he got to box. Boxed Tyson Fury, boxed Anthony Joshua. Doing well. Doing well. Much, much more money for it. They do it right. They make stars out of these fighters. They give them all these opportunities. They get the most asses in the seats. Every pay-per-view sells well. When there's a UFC pay-per-view, people line up to see it. There's a bunch of stars in the UFC.

But unfortunately, when they're in other organizations, even if they're getting paid more, nobody knows who they are. And so if they wanna come to the UFC, they have to take a pay cut, which is crazy. So you're leaving an organization, if you're going from small promotions in boxing

and then all of a sudden you're in a world title fight and you're in Golden Boy promotions, you would imagine, now I'm getting paid more money, more people are watching me But it's not the case like these other organizations like the PFL have to pay these guys more money because otherwise they can't get them at All because everybody wants to fight in the UFC. It's not a monopoly because there is other options There's one FC this PFL. There's some organizations in Russia and other parts of the world

But the reality is it's like the NFL or Q-tips. It's got a name, it's the NBA. Nobody wants to watch some new basketball organization. Nobody wants to watch, I mean, the XFL, do people watch it? I don't know, but it's not the Super Bowl.

It's like there's one big organization, that's the NFL. There's one big MMA organization, that's the NFL. There's one big MMA organization, that's the UFC. And for these guys that want the glory, they want to be known as the best in the world, there's one place to be. So it's very difficult for those guys

to hold out for more money.

It goes back to identity and what you're doing it for.

Right.

You know, that's what you gotta ask yourself. Is you doing it for fame? Is you doing it for, to provide stability for your family? Is it, I need money? Like, what is you doing it for? Legacy?

Yeah, definitely legacy.

For the greats of the greats, legacy is the primary focus, almost always. Greatness is always the primary focus, because otherwise you never achieve greatness. If you're just thinking about money, I don't think those guys ever get to the level that you're at or the level that the elite of the elite get. I think those guys have to have their eye on being the number one dog, period.

Facts. That's why I asked, what is you doing it for because Nganu, you know, he's already famous. Right. He probably like, okay, well, if y'all gonna pay me X amount over here and they only gonna pay me this, then it makes business sense to go over here. Yes.

You know, and that's just like Connor Bd. He just signed with Zufa. Mm-hmm. And a lot of people was saying he's disloyal and Eddie Herndon was loyal to him and this and that and this. He's getting 15 million for his next record. I'm like man, what is people talking about? I said It's just business. It ain't personal with with them, I bet. I said, Conor Ben did what was best for him and his family. I said, just like the promotional companies gonna do what's best for them and their business, if a

fighter that they sign lose probably two straight, they get to cut them. No questions asked. Why? Because now they wasting money they feel. They don't care about that person's family. They don't care about that person's relationship with them. They not going in there with they heart, like, oh man, you a good buddy.

They like, ah, sorry, it's just business, cut you. So when a fighter does the same thing that a promotional company do, or a manager or anybody else, it's, oh, you disloyal, you this, you that.

I'm like, make it make sense. It doesn't make any sense in boxing because in boxing there's so many promoters. There's so many different people. Eddie Hearns, Bob Arum, there's so many different promoters. Don King, there's so many different promoters. That's the beauty of boxing is that is a lot There's a lot of competition and there's a lot of people that are there to try to get you over onto their side

And there's cross promotion. There's no cross promotion in MMA doesn't exist They tried it a little bit in the early days they sent some UFC fighters over to Japan to fight for pride and they brought some pride fighters over into the UFC, but They don't do that anymore. That was the early days because it was the sport wasn't big back then They were just trying to get big names and they were trying to work a promotional deal, but Japanese man They're clever like when they sold them pride

They thought they were getting all the fighters turn out all of contracts were bullshit that none of them were valid They basically bought pride for I think they spent 65 million dollars and they got a library. They just got a video library They didn't get fade or fade or was the big dog at one point in time he was kicking everybody lays I remember fucking everybody up Slamming him arm barring him fucking people up standing. He was a complete It was and he was at the same time where came Velasquez was in his prime

And that was the fight that they tried to put together, but the Russians Because the UFC didn't have a contract with Fedor anymore because the contracts at Pride were all bullshit. They had a deal with these Russian gangsters, and these Russian gangsters were like, they wanted a piece of the promotion, they wanted a lot. And the UFC wasn't willing. It got very contentious. The UFC had to up their security.

It got sketchy. It got sketchy. They're bad dudes. Those are bad dudes, man. But it's just, as a fan, we were robbed. We were robbed of one of the greatest matchups

in the history of the sport. And there's a few of those moments in combat sports where you've got these just top dogs where you're like, God, we gotta see that happen. For a while it was Floyd and Manny right for a while And after Juan Manuel Marquez knocked out Manny

it took a little shine off of that and and then eventually they fought but Manny had a hurt shoulder and Now they're gonna do it again. They're both 50. It's crazy

You gonna watch it

Fuck you. I'm gonna watch him fighting Mike. I think that's crazy. He's gonna have an exhibition with Tyson, which is crazy.

Yeah, that's crazy.

Mike is so much bigger than him.

Yeah, but-

He's so much bigger than him.

He's not gonna land a fist on Mayweather.

Right.

It's not hard. Not after his last performance. I think Tyson just needs to get it. What do you think was going on with that, the last one? It looked a little bit like sparring.

Yeah, I don't know. I think it was scripted. Yeah. I ain't never seen Tyson biting his gloves. Like, you could just, it was taking all that he could, not to like hit him.

He, it was just like, it's heartbreaking to see a Icon go out like that. Yeah, you know and but it's crazy also to see him fight at 57 years old like yeah, it's feel like He shouldn't been in there at all. You know, I think it's the money other ways Yeah, you know, it's other ways for but what did he get? He got at least 20, right? Yeah, but still, I think...

But I think he needed that money.

Yeah, but with all his connections and things like that, I think people could have put him in the right position to make some money.

If he's got people with him that are looking out for his best interest, but you know how it is. When there's a guy like that, that's a big name usually everybody around him pretends. They're looking out for their best interests But there's always lawsuits later on you find out someone was stealing money or not paying him what he deserved There's always a bunch of bullshit involved You know unfortunately especially if you're not business minded

Which I don't know if Mike is but most fighters aren't most fighters concentrate on fighting To be business minded. that's a giant distraction. You gotta pay attention to all this other shit. On top of that, it's generally not how they think. I mean, look at Floyd. Floyd spends money like it's a tap.

Like he's got a tap. Just unlimited amount of money. Money's just flowing. And even as much money as he's made in his career, which he's probably made as much, if not more money than any boxer ever.

Like there's all these lawsuits. Like he hasn't been paying things and he owes money on this and owes money on that. And it's like, and then he's gotta come out of retirement.

Yeah, that's tough.

Yeah.

That's tough. Yeah. That's tough. I think it's just the lifestyle that Floyd live.

Yes.

I think he can't fathom to just live a modest lifestyle. It's like he gotta be lavish.

Right, he's gotta have those videos where he shows you all the watches. Where he opens the case up, you know.

All the money, he gotta show that he got a million dollars in his backpack.

Yeah.

You know, he got the latest watch and the latest car and look what I just bought.

And when you get into latest watches and latest cars, you get into that shit, like, boy, that money goes quick. Bugattis are like three million. There's watches that are three, five million. That's crazy. So you buy a watch and a car,'re down ten that's nuts that's nuts crazy I remember I ran Barkley was talking about that I

ran Barkley when he was in his prime was hanging out with all these professional athletes and everybody was getting diamond-crusted chains and this and that and he was keeping up with these people like you got to keep up with the Joneses and he just found himself like draining all of his money. He was talking about it like that was the biggest detriment to him being able to save any money.

They trying to keep up.

Yeah, which I thought was funny when I was listening to this conversation with Chad Ochocinco. He was talking about it.

He was like.

Wow, is jury fake?

He's wearing fake jewelry.

But who would know? What's that? Who would know?

No one would know. Exactly.

Fake jewelry, flying economy, he was sleeping at the stadium, so he didn't have to pay for the apartment.

So smart.

So clever, you know? But that's a guy, like, preparing.

Nobody's gonna question him. Exactly. They know, oh man, this NFL star, he got money. Yeah. So we're not going to question if his diamond's real or not.

Well you really can't tell. Right. You can't. You can't tell until you get a magnifying glass on.

That's why they say we got these diamond testers. You want to test your diamonds now? Come on now. Yeah. It's just all illusion anyway.

Do you fuck around with any of that stuff?

I got jewelry, but I'm not paying all that money for no jewelry.

Yeah.

No, we can get some sponsorships.

Yes.

But me keep spending hundreds and millions of dollars on jewelry? Nah, I mean.

It's just not smart.

Yeah.

And you don't get out of it what it

costs like if you think about how much blood sweat what sometimes you do what do you get now if you buy from the factory now if you get you a Rolex from the Rolex store you know you might can get some money back you can flip it yeah that's true no no buzz buzznails, no. But if you get it from the actual store, the Patek store, the Rolex store.

That's true. Them type of stores.

Keep the box and the papers. It's worth a lot of money.

It's worth more money. Then it's an investment. But all them other ones, the chains and stuff like that, You don't never see a billionaire with no chain. You see it with a good watch though. Yeah.

Yeah, that's true. It's just the trappings of fame and also showing everybody that you have that money, the trappings of wealth. You know, competing with others, getting your own private jet, all that stuff.

It's like, ooh.

I learn from them. I learn from them because the people with the real wealth, you don't know they got the wealth. Right. You know? Right.

They walk around playing Jane Close, know nothing. Yep. You know, but the people that have a little bit of money, they want you to know that they got a little bit of money, but they don't have the wealth. Right. of money but they don't have the wealth. So I'd rather be wealthy than rich any day of the week.

Yes, and sneak around.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And keep it.

Yeah, there you go.

That's the thing. Because a lot of what wealth is, is never having to worry about money. That's the big thing. Just have that money invested. Have that money making money for you.

Don't spend it on stupid shit. Live a modest life live a normal life You're much better off much especially a professional athlete because you have such a small window of time I mean a lot of men don't even make their real money until they're deep in their 40s and 50s or the end of 30s

Yeah, yeah, look at Floyd when he fought Delahoye then he fought Delahoya, then he fought Gatti, then he started making some real money.

Yes. You know what I mean? But I mean, that's for a pro athlete. But for most of these really wealthy business people, most of them, unless they're tech investors, they're making their money later in life.

And so you have all this opportunity to keep growing your wealth. But when you're an athlete, you've got a small window of your prime. Your prime is essentially like maybe 20 years. Maybe 20 years you can make money, from 20 to 40. For a pro athlete, unless you're Tom Brady, 40's the end.

Or unless you're Bernard. Bernard was fighting at a world-class level at 49, 50 years old, which is crazy.

Crazy.

Crazy.

That's because he take care of his body.

100%.

You don't put nothing crazy in it.

Super disciplined. Never gets out of shape. Never puts any bullshit in his body. And also, that mindset of what he learned when he was incarcerated. Yeah.

Like, that, like like discipline is everything discipline Discipline never knowing you never going back to that don't buy anything stupid. Don't be done with your money Don't be done with your body. Take care of yourself. Never get out of shape always keep your conditioning up So when you go into camp, you're not struggling to get back in shape again. You're already in shape now You're just working on your skills and honing everything to a razor sharp edge.

I think that goes to, like I said before, the people that you have around you, you know, that want to see you be successful and the people that you can learn from and the people that you can get advice from. You know, when they see you about to do something

that you shouldn't do, they be like, hey man, we ain't doing that. Come on, let's go. Or they'll call you, be like, let's go run. I'm not doing nothing, let's go jog. Or let's go to the gym. Or let's go eat some healthy food.

People that wanna see you be successful, not the ones that say, hey, let's go party. Let's go drink. Let's go do this. Let's do cocaine. Yeah. I think those are the people that you need to get from around you. 100%. The ones that see you doing things that you shouldn't be doing, but that's cool with them seeing you doing that.

Yeah. That's also the problem with an entourage, too.

Yeah, for sure.

These guys will roll with an entourage. You always got one dude who's fucking up with that entourage those conflicts in the entourage between dudes, and it's like you're managing the whole team of knuckleheads It's like oh god. Yeah, just so they could roll deep and show up at a place You have 30 dudes hop out of SUVs always here. He's here look at that group behind him. I don't need none of that That's beautiful. I mean that's a valuable lesson for young fighters to see your example It's about I'm glad you live the way you live.

I really am. I really am. Because I think it's so important for guys to see. So let me ask you this. When you were training for Canelo, what did you do different?

So knowing that you're gonna be fighting at 168 instead of 54 or 47, what did you do different in terms of, did you do anything different about strength and conditioning? How long did you prepare? Like, I know you were thinking about that fight

for a long time, but like, when you were physically preparing for it, knowing that you were gonna be fighting him at 68, what did you do different?

To be honest, I didn't do nothing different.

Really?

It's crazy. Like, all my fights, there's nothing different. You know, we train for me, me getting sharper, what I need to work on, what I'm lacking in. But the only thing that I changed for the fight with Canelo is Chet, my strength and condition coach,

he got me in February. He called me up, he like, hey, we gonna get this fight. He just kept saying, we gonna get it. So you need to be working out now So this way before I ever got the Canelo fight, so I'm like, alright, so you come over my house

We'll work out. We'll work out. We'll work out. What kind of stuff were you doing? Just strength work Just train work like dead lifts

Like we're gonna stay alive strength condition likeifts, working on good legs and things like that, and just getting my body just, you know, back to where it need to be, you know. And he just like, man, you gotta strengthen up your shoulders and things like that. And because Quiet is Kep, I had just had shoulder surgery.

You did?

Yeah. So I just, you know, there's a lot of things that I go through in training, but I don't speak about because I don't never want it to be an excuse. You know, that's just one of the injuries that I was coming off of. But yeah, he was just like, man, we got to work. We got to work.

So what was the shoulder injury labor labrum? Yeah, so did you get it sewed back up? Yeah, did you get stem cells shot in there at all? No, no

I just said surgery on The front in the back. I wish I talked to you about that. Yeah, I got you in Yeah, I didn't get I didn't get in on my left shoulder. So I tore both of them. Well, I tore my left in the Gamboa fight.

Really? Yeah.

And you never got it fixed? Never.

Is it okay now or does it fuck with you?

It still tore. Really? But the doctor say if it's not preventing you from working out, then they wouldn't advise me to get surgery.

Do you feel it? Does it bother you?

Sometimes, but not really. It bothered me sometimes, but not crazy.

How long are you in town for?

I leave after this. Damn. But the right one, that was crazy. It was hurting when I was sleeping after the Majumar fight. Oh, really? Yeah, after the Majumar fight. It was like throbbing. Then it was just like, man, we better get it done. But he was just on me, like, we gotta do physical therapy,

we gotta do this, we gotta do this. And it was just like, all right, let's go. So he was just on me, and he was just speaking it into existence. He was like, man, you gonna get this fight. I can feel it, I can feel it.

So like, I started training for Canelo in February. I wasn't you know more so doing boxing workout, but I was just getting my body prepared To you know go to camp and when I start back to go so strength work is like the basics

Strength training, but like what kind of conditioning were you doing? Oh, no nothing different like running swimming things like that and You didn't try to put on any weight? Just tried to be able to walk around the way it is?

Just tighten it up, you know, with the strength work. Just tighten it up, that was it.

Damn, I wish I knew that you had a problem with your shoulder. I could get you back in town. There's a place called Waste Well that I work with here that does stem cells that helps so many fighters out a lot of UFC guys come here a lot of a lot of pro Athletes come here NFL guys come here just to get stem cells. It's like state-of-the-art facility

It's really good and it could help you. Yeah, just I bet it could heal that labrum Probably yeah, especially now because you're going to beat it up as much anymore. Yeah. Obviously, I'm sure you're still working out.

You look great. No, I'm actually not.

Not working out at all?

Nothing?

No, I've been chilling.

You earned it. Hey, I've been putting on my time with my kids and just, you know, relaxing and not having to worry about running and waking up in the morning. Did they offer you a rematch?

No. They didn't? Because there was talk that they offered you a rematch but you wanted 100 million.

Nah, that's a lie.

All internet bullshit?

That's a lie, that's a lie. There wasn't even no rematch in the contract. There was no conversation about a rematch. There still haven't been a conversation about a rematch. I've seen Canelo said that he won a rematch, but nobody has reached out to me and said, hey, Terrence, what you think about a rematch

or anything like that, so let's put that out there.

Is there a number that would bring you back?

I don't know, like, me personally, I can't say it is. You know, because-

You're just not compelled.

Yeah, not at all.

You did it.

Yeah.

Did it perfect. It's like I'm not, the motivation, I'm always motivated by competing and, you know, things like that, but like, when it comes to like boxing, it's like, I did it all. Right.

Like, it's like, I checked everything off the checkbox. So it's like, it wasn't close. You know? I beat him decisively. So what am I doing it for again?

I think I might have give him one or maybe two rounds. More like one. It was mostly, I think it was like maybe the fifth he had a really good fifth round. Yeah, the fifth he had a really good fifth round.

Yeah, the fifth round he had a good fifth round.

But other than that, man, especially the ninth round.

Woo! Woo!

And he headbutt me. He headbutt me on purpose.

Did he?

Yes.

Really?

Yes.

I was like, man. And he was like, sorry, champion. I was like, this motherfucker. He just got a little angry Little frustrated. Yeah a little frustrated. But yeah, it's a fight like Anytime I'm in a fight I don't I don't complain about nothing if somebody hit me in the back of the head or they hit me

Below the waist or anything like that. I never complain Because I'm so aggressive. I'm like, it's a fight, you know, I mean like they trying to do whatever they can to win

It's up to this So I'm like, it's a fight, you know what I mean? Like, they trying to do whatever they can to win.

It's up to this referee to step in, because if he don't, then I'm gonna take matters in my own hands, and I'm gonna do the same thing. So, I don't complain, I'm just like, bam! I was a little frustrated, and I was like, man, all right, all right, breathe,

let's get back to work. Yeah, don't lose your composure. Yeah, for sure. That's the problem with getting angry, right?

Yeah, for sure.

Yeah. But yeah, that ninth round, woo, that's when you really start separating.

Yeah.

You really start pouring it on. I was wondering if you're going to stop him. When the ninth round was going on, when you were cracking him with some big shots,

I'm like, you don't gotta do that. You don't gotta, cause they know me, and I'm like, man, I can go for it. And you know, and it's just like, they just know me, they know my demeanor. And it was like, you don't gotta give them a chance. Just keep doing what you doing.

You boxing the shit out of them. You winning hands down, don't give them a chance. You don't gotta box them, you don't gotta do that. You winning. So it's just like me wanting to listen to my coaches all the time because I have that much faith in them. If they tell me to go out there and use my jab the whole fight, that's what I'm gonna do

because that's the belief I have in them, you know? And I just like, all right, the last round I was like, all right, let me win this round and separate myself, you know, and I felt like I hurt him bad in that round. Yes. You know, but it's boxing.

Yeah, well, he's got a crazy chin. Yeah. He's got a crazy chin. I mean, it's something unusual. You don't think so?

No, they say redheads, it's hard to knock out.

It's proven.

Is it?

Yeah, I Googled it.

What is they called? Gingers? Yeah, gingers. I promise you, when you look it up.

Well, they have a higher pain tolerance, supposedly.

Yes, supposedly. Yes. Yes. When you look it up, I looked it up because my cousin, she's a nurse, and she said, yeah, them gingers, they hard to put to sleep, even when you giving them the aesthetics to go to sleep. Really? Yeah. Interesting. And the anesthesia.

Redheads often possess unique pain profile, generally exhibiting a higher threshold for specific types of pain like heat or pressure But requiring 19 to 20 percent more general anesthesia Wow or higher 19 to 20 percent a lot Or higher doses of certain anesthetics to reach the same level of comfort. That's crazy largely due to the mutated MC1 our gene which affects nerve sensitivity, can lead to increased

sensitivity to pain and paradoxical increased sensitivity to some opioids. Interesting. Interesting. Increased sensitivity to opioids is interesting.

When she told me that, I Googled it and I was like, damn, this is why cannella, you know what I mean, can take so many good shots.

Yeah. That does make sense. Well, you know, Neanderthals supposedly had red hair. So maybe like redheads have more Neanderthal genes. Probably. You know, the Neanderthals were brutally strong.

I wonder if that's where it comes from.

I thought she was playing at first. That's crazy. She was like, man, when we be trying to put them to sleep, it'd be harder to put them to sleep than normal people. So I started Googling, and I like, you're fucking right.

19 to 20% is nuts. That's a lot. That's like the difference between killing someone and them just going to sleep. Like, you give them an extra 20%, they might not wake up.

Facts. That's crazy

19 to 20 percent is wild

Well, I was talking to Jim Lampley and I didn't know this but Canelo has always been riding horses since he was young That's good for his balance. Yeah, and legs. Yeah, it's his base. Yeah, that's that's a big part of it Also, he's got that thick fucking neck

Squarehead like you've been doing an iron neck all his life.

Neanderthals have a different mutation that actually gives them more sensitivity to pain. Interesting. Most humans.

More sensitivity?

Yeah.

Lower threshold. Interesting.

That's like the opposite.

Wow. Even though they're redheaded.

So he ain't one of them. He ain't one of them.

Ha!

He the other one.

He's one of those Mexican redheads.

Right.

Yeah, it's wild. That's crazy. But yeah, I never thought the horse thing, like Lampley was explaining, it's like, yeah, the balance and the legs, because you're constantly squeezing down on that horse and you're constantly adjusting and your core and everything. I'm like, oh, I never even thought of that.

I would just think, fuck it, why are you riding horses when you're a world champion? Don't do that. People fall off horses, they break their fucking neck. Don't do that.

Yeah, I seen a guy break his arm. They wanted me to take a picture on the horse, and my bro Manny was like, man I don't know about these fucking horses, these horses be crazy. I said, man I rode horses before. He was like, yeah, but it's a lot of people around.

And he asking the guy about the horses and the other guy was like, yeah, he can get on this horse. So I get on the horse, I take the horse, I take the picture and I get off. No longer than like 10 minutes, this guy on his own horse, his horse just buck, go crazy. Buck him off.

Boom, he broke his arm. This in the parade and the horse is just running wild. I'm like, he says, see, see, this is what I was telling you. He was going crazy. He was like, see, I told you these fucking horses.

Yeah.

But it wasn't the same horse. It was a different horse. Yeah. But he was just like, see, that's why I was telling you these horses be fucking crazy.

Yeah, you just never know with animals. My oldest daughter got into horses for a while. One of her friends used to do those things where, you know, the horse jumps over a thing, and they have a whole obstacle course. And she was getting into that, and she fell once, and she was okay, and then she fell a second time, and she hurt her wrist pretty bad.

I was like, honey, you gotta stop. You can't be doing this. This is too dangerous. Because those kind of injuries, you get falling off a horse, especially if you get stomped, those are life-changing.

Especially if you get tied up tied up. Oh, I didn't seen videos of people getting buck And they laid oh They just a rag dog. Oh

Getting stomped in the head. Oh, no, no, no. No. Yeah horses. Fuck that Fuck that. I know quite a few people that have fallen off horses and been okay, but like why why do it?

Yeah, Texas Ranger

Everybody wants to be cowboy. They watch Yellowstone to it. Yeah, it's funny We were talking to Andre Ward on the phone today when you had Andre on FaceTime and you're talking about burbles Yeah, but I've been going down this burble rabbit hole, those mastiffs, I'm fascinated by them, man. South African mastiffs, they used to keep lions

and hyenas away from the farms. And we were talking about coyotes, like you got land now, you're just, you're relaxing now. So I like it, separated from everything, got some space.

Yeah, I bought, it's crazy because when I was building the house, you know, a lot of people was like, oh, he's building a house on the aero, spends money and this and that and this. I'm like, dude, do you know how long

the process is of building houses? Like, this is not no week or two month deal, you know what I mean? Like, I bought- It's years.

Yeah, like-

Just from design to the beginning of construction,

it's years.

Yeah, for sure. You gotta go pick out every fucking thing in the house. You know, I bought that land in 2016.

Oh really?

Wow. And I just was sitting on it. It was a house there already. I had it rent out to one of my buddies, my best friend at that. And when the time came, I had more kids. So it was better that I waited than to build then. So I just was like, man, it's time.

It's more peaceful out there. The kids, they ride the four wheelers out, it's more peaceful out there, the kids. They ride the four wheelers out there, we can shoot out there. We can do whatever we want out there and it's just, you know, peaceful to wake up

to the sunrise and you know, the nature, call it. Ain't nothing like it.

That's the dream.

It's definitely the dream.

Yeah, for a lot of people. That's nice,. It's definitely the dream. Yeah for a lot of people. That's nice. That's nice It's nice to see someone just setting their life up, right? Yeah, you know I'm just amazed that you don't get the itch at all

I'm more competitive in other sports, you know, like what like basketball football I'm anything I am rely anything I do is like, I gotta compete. I gotta compete. Darts, pool, like whatever. You remember I came in here like, you wanna play pool?

You're like, let's do it. I was like, nah, I'll just play. You can't kick my ass on camera. I heard that you was good.

I fucked Lennox Lewis up. He was talking a lot of shit Never got a shot

We're done I came in here pump faking you Already know it

Just like to have fun, you know, well everyone who is an elite athlete is insanely competitive Yeah, you know, that's the problem though is unfortunately Some of them get involved in gambling, you know, like that's the Michael. That's what we're just talking about. Yeah, he was like

You can buy Sam. I ain't never gambled good for you A lot of people always actually why you don't get more in your fights. I mean, no, I Don't gamble at all good for you. You know, they was like, oh, well, we see you, when you gambled on the streamer, you know, Aiden Ross. I said that was only because he called me out with my brother.

What did you do? What was that?

He bet me $10,000 that Tiafema was going to whoop Shakur.

Oh, that's a crazy bet.

You know what I mean? so it was just like that's a silly bet. He called me out on live You know stream so I'm never gonna back down from that. Of course. I'm riding with Shakur until the wheels fall off

That's also like if if I was making odds, I'm putting like a six to one. Yeah, like that's a crazy flat-out bet Yeah, you're not even getting any odds on the money, and you're putting it on T... No disrespect to Tiafemo, but I think that Shakur is... He has the potential to be an all-time great.

Yeah, he will be.

I believe so.

He will be. All he gotta do is keep doing what he's doing, stay focused, and that's it. It's just... With fighters like Shakur, Devon, it's all about staying focused. You know, when these young fighters get to the pinnacle of boxing

and they got everything at their disposal, sometimes they get caught up in the limelight and the things that really don't matter. You know? And long as they stay focused and Keep their eye on a prize of where they want to go and where they want their legacy to land

They're gonna be just fine. Yeah, because it's easy for them To get caught up and want to be a fan pleasing fighter You know Listening to the masses all they need to fight like this or I don't want to see him fight because all they do is run Or all they do is fight like this and they pity Pat. They ain't got no power this and I know

It's boxing they winning. All they got to do is keep winning. That's it. Well, look at Floyd later in his life

Like Floyd later in his life fought so safe, but yet made so much money because he talked so much shit. For sure. That people were spending money hoping he was going to lose.

And he's not the first one that did that.

Tyson.

Yeah.

Roy Jones Jr. Yeah. Muhammad Ali. Yep. And I always, I said this when I was with Tyrene, I said, why is it only the black fighters that gotta talk shit to sell?

Well, MMA, it's white fighters too.

Connor McGregor. No, no, no. Connor McGregor, you know, I say he one of us, you know, because they was treated like black people over there where he from. You know, a lot of people don't know that. Oh yeah, a lot of Irish slaves. You know, they was treated just like us. So, you know, I consider him one of us, you know, but at the same time, you know, in boxing it's always the

black fighters gotta be the ones that step out and play the circus role and, you know, be the one to talk shit and have everybody hate him, but the ones that don't, like Andre Ward, Terrence Crawford, Tim Bradley, you know, they boring or they can't sell, things like that Well, this is the difference with casuals versus people that really appreciate excellent box. I knock people out

That's what people want to see they want to see action. I'm gonna give them action, but I think for Casuals they want to see a lot of shit talking, too, for some reason. They want to get emotionally wrapped up in your conflict with this other person.

But they pick and choose.

They do sometimes. Yeah, they do sometimes. But I mean, like, look, Tyson Fury talks a lot of shit. And obviously, one of the greatest of all time. You know, talked a lot of shit, sold a lot of tickets. Singing and shit after the fights. That guy's great.

And his draws. And his draws at his cup. Legendary.

He's a legend.

Legendary.

He's a legend. I mean, that guy.

But he from a different country.

Sure, he's a gypsy.

You know what I mean? So you gotta understand, So yeah, you got to understand like He bringing those people over here and they're gonna support him win lose or draw. Yep, you know when we went over to the UK and we watch Americana fight Kell Brook It was a electric fire and those guys had Losses been both and stopped and all that, you know, but those people came out to support like a motherfucking.

Oh, yeah.

And I left, and I left that arena like, God damn, man, I wish I was, you know, from the UK, you know, like, because the way they support boxing, they don't look at us, since you lost, you know, we're not going to support you. They look at, no, these is warriors and we and we not gonna stop supporting them because they lost.

That's true. That is true about the UK.

America, they like, man, you got your ass whooped, on to the next. You're a bum, you washed, you ain't as good as you said you was or we thought you was, and it's just like, they chew you up and spit you out, and it's like god damn, you know how hard it is to stay at the top of A sport that everybody's gunning from you. Mm-hmm. You know, that's that shit hard like

Yeah, that's the culture of America though, right? It's a bit of a problem. Yeah, I it disgusts me with fighting

It's not like I know UFC though. It is not so much. There's plenty of people. Well, the UFC, it's not as important to be undefeated. I'm about to say it's only like a couple of people in the UFC that was undefeated. Very few. You know, you got Khabib, you got Jon Jones, he had that one little loss. That's a bullshit loss. Yeah, but everybody know that was a bullshit loss.

My boy, my boy Suhudo, he just finally lost with not too long.

Well he lost a bunch of times. He lost to Mighty Mouse early on then he came back and beat Mighty Mouse to win his first title.

Yeah, but like Most everybody else be having like five losses and stuff like that and they be at the top of the top You know and everybody still support them. But don't nobody go, oh, he got fight losses, he's trash, he this, that, no, it's just. Maybe it was off night.

There's something to that, because I think it's more difficult to not lose in MMA. There's just too many different styles, there's too many different approaches, too many variables, and it's also so difficult to not be hurt in training before you fight.

When you're grappling, kicking legs, elbows, all that shit you're doing in training, jujitsu, you're manipulating joints. There's so many different things that can get fucked up. We think about all the things that get fucked up just with your hands, just boxing, shoulders, back, knees.

Ribs.

Ribs, yeah. Neck. Yep, neck, sure. Yeah, yeah. And then ad, getting dumped on your head. Ad, you know, getting kneed in the face.

Ad, getting your legs kicked. Knees buckled.

Toes broke.

Toes broke, yeah. I mean, Pereira fought a world title fight with a broken toe. Yeah. Just came in and fought with it. And afterwards, toe's all fucked up, crooked to the side, and you, like, adjust it, pops it into place.

Yeah.

It's tough for them for combat sports, you know? And people don't know, like I said, they don't know what we go through. We don't never walk in a world class fight, you know, the same or 100% healthy. Like, everybody just be like, oh man, I'm 100%. No, the fuck you're not.

It's not possible. There's always going to be something that's bothering you.

Yeah.

If you're going through a 10-week camp, how is it even possible to not have something? Bullshit.

If they bullshit, but it's going to show in the fight.

Right. to not have something. If they bullshit, but it's gonna show in the fight.

It shows in the fight.

But don't they, everybody always, nobody says, I'm pretty fucked up going into this fight, but I'm hoping it works out. Nobody says that.

Nobody says that.

No, I mean, it's just, it's the game.

When they talked about my shoulder, you know, before's here? Tell him to hit me in both of my shoulders. You know? Like, it don't matter. Like, my shoulder is healed. Like, yeah.

How long did it take before it felt 100% again?

After the fight.

Really?

Yeah.

Because I got it on Halloween.

Oh, you got it in October. Yeah. And then how many months did you have to recover?

I fought September. Whoa

Okay, so that was so you had not even a year and when did you really start training hard again after the surgery?

Probably

April okay, that's a good amount of time. Yeah, People don't realize, like, shoulders are such a complicated joint. There's all this different movement to it.

And it still wasn't like 100% after I fought.

Because you didn't have your strength all the way back to... Even after you fought.

Yeah, like, it wasn't 100%.

So it wasn't 100% in the fight?

Mm-mm.

That's crazy.

I always tell people like if you watch my jab and my hook in the Canelo fight, then watch my jab and my hook, my prior fights, you know, in Majumof and Spence, you'll see the difference. Really? You know, but the blind eye wouldn't even notice it. Right.

You know, they would just be like, oh. But then when they look. Well, it's still effective. Yeah, but then when they notice, they'd be like, it wasn't that snappy. It wasn't as hard. You know, you kind of was just like landing out there.

So that's just little key little things.

But now it's 100%?

Oh yeah, it's good now. Wow. And the left one doesn't bother you really? The left one, it bothered me when I when it's overused. Mm-hmm. You know, but like, in a fight? No, I don't think none of that shit bothers me. Do you have any plans to come back in town? No, no. Can we get you back in town? I never come to Austin. You know the only time I ever came here was this podcast. Never ever been here in my life.

Really?

Oh, it's a great city.

Yeah.

Julie always talked about it.

So many good restaurants, so many good places.

She took me to the college and all that, and, you know, reminiscing, because she went to college here and she just love here. So she's like, this is the pores that we went to. This is this, this, this. And I'm like, oh, Julie, your happy spot, a place, huh? She was like, I just love it here. Well, why not move here?

It's a great town. I love it to death. But if you want to come back, I would love to get you set up, get your shoulder taken care of. Wild man, it's crazy what it could do. Yeah, just regenerates tissue everything heals But like within like weeks you start feeling better. You're like, god. Yeah, everything just feels looser for sure

I've had so many friends that were like on the verge of getting surgery like I don't know doctor says I need surgery get stem cells Everything's good. I had a full-length Rotator cuff tear. I went to the doctor six months after the stem cells, he's like, this is the craziest thing I've ever seen. He's like, that tear doesn't even exist anymore. It's gone. Completely healed.

It's crazy. Like, stem cells are nuts, man. And they're getting better at it all the time. Like, it's just, pharmaceutical drug companies fucking hate it. Surgeons hate it.

Like, doctors hate it surgeons hate it like doctors hate it because it's gonna it's gonna cost them money Yeah, it's a bunch of people that are gonna get treated with stem cells that don't need surgery, right and afterwards. They're like oh, I'm good Cuz the doctors like when all you have is a hammer everything looks like a nail and these doctors the way they make their money is cutting you, and they all want to cut you. And it's amazing how many different, especially soft tissue injuries,

how many different injuries you can heal with stem cells. It's pretty remarkable.

My doctors tried to avoid cutting me.

They did? Well, that's good.

So they waited all the way till...

That's a good doctor. That's a good doctor.

Till it was like we got to.

Mm-hmm.

And that's after the Majumd fight, right?

Yeah.

Yeah. Well, I'd love to get you back in here, because I really think they could help that.

For sure.

Yeah. Especially, you got your whole life ahead of you now. You don't want, you know, you don't want that bothering you fucking with you you'd be able to do whatever you want And especially now because you're not training hard. Oh, it'll heal good

Yeah

It'll heal because that's the problem a lot of guys They get the stem cells and they go back to training in a few weeks And they kind of it's not a hundred percent healed and they tweak it a little bit and you know But now if you're not training at all, this is the perfect time to do something like that. Yeah. So, what is your plans now? Now that you're on top of the world, you did it. What does it feel like?

It feels, man, like it's supposed to.

Like it's supposed to.

It feels like it's supposed to. Like a lot of people, they ask me, they say, man, how I feel? How's the retired life? I'm like, the same. Like, nothing in my life has changed, but the people everywhere else congratulating me and things like that, but like,

as far as like my living, you know, aspect of my life is, it's the same. Like, when I'm fighting, training,, training, I'm focused on the fight, but after that it's like my kids, the gym, things like that.

Do you have any interest in doing commentary at all? Because I think you would be great at that.

I'd be chilling, I don't be liking to be in the media talking and all this. You don't even have to be in the media talkin' and all that.

But you don't even have to be in the media.

I be avoidin' the media.

Just call.

I be avoidin' the, you know how like some people, like they wanna be all up in the limelight and things like that.

Yeah.

I just be, I be avoidin'. They be like, Tenz, can we get in here? Nah, not right now, I don't wanna talk. Yeah. Well, I appreciate you coming in here, though. Oh yeah, for sure. But a lot of people ask me that, do you wanna be like all the other fighters and be a commentary?

Nah.

Good for you.

I'll be cool.

Good for you. That's gonna help you so much. It's gonna help you so much, because it's the people that crave that limelight. When it all goes away, then they're like, well, who am I? I thought I was special. I thought I was special. You know? I want to be the guy when,

oh, he's here, he's here. You know? They want to be constantly in the limelight,

showing up at red carp to do with that. I know who I am, you know, internally. You know, so I can't nobody, you know, tell me who Terrence Crawford is. So I'm happy in my own skin, always been happy in my own skin. And I believe that's how I got to the point

where I'm at now. You know, when nobody believed in me, I didn't listen to them because I knew who I was all along. When people told me I was a bad businessman, okay, look at me now. You know, when people told me what I should've did

and what I shouldn't have done, and I did what I wanted to do, look at me now. So now it's like, everybody like, man, this dude was new all along. It's like Yeah, because I'm not a follower. I'm not gonna listen to people that is Never done anything in a life and never took no chances or no risk to tell me what I can and what I can't do

So I'm happy in my own skin. I'm happy you know whether they chant my name, whether they're chanting my name or whether they're not. Long as my family love me and my family there and they good, they well taken care of, then that's the only thing that makes me happy.

That's beautiful. I hope young fighters that are inspired by you take that example. I hope they take that mindset and try to adopt it as their own. I really do.

I really do because there's so many young fighters that just can't wait to be that person in the limelight, can't wait to be that person living flashy in front of everybody. And it's a foolish adventure.

It's temporary. It's temporary. And they don't understand that. They only chant your name for a moment, you know? It's very temporary, you know, and they'll turn on you in a heartbeat. You know, just do something crazy or lose a match that you're not supposed to lose

or be up against one of your rivals and you lose and then everybody gonna turn their back on you.

100%.

You know, and you're gonna be sitting there lost. Look at Broner. When he was at the top of the top, everybody was there. He had everybody in his corner. Now he at his lowest, now they making fun of him, now they taking pictures and you know, I hit some up.

He makes fun of himself too though.

Yeah, he do but He's suffering yes, you know and I hit some up, and I try and encourage them, and I send him messages, and I you know and

You got to be there for people when they at their lowest. That's great

He was a very talented guy, but again. That's what you said like he's a guy who really got caught up in it mm-hmm

That's a perfect example

What's your Vonte doing now? Oh, yeah on the run. I don't know. I don't know nothing about that guy I think he's on the run At least he was like recently That's unfortunate. He's so fucking talented he's a He's such an unusual style too, you know? Very economical, throws very few punches,

but when he does it's boom!

Explosive.

Super, super explosive. I mean, this is a great time for boxing though. It really is. It's an exciting time for boxing. There's a lot of stars right now, you know?

And they fightin' each other. That's the most important thing that I could say is The fights is being made whether you on this side or that side the fights has been made the promoters is working together within with each other So

No, I attribute that to you think that's Riyadh season is the first hours. Yeah, of course

Yeah, turkey came and changed up the game You know he he he He went to the fighters You know hey, I Got this I got this. Yeah, we want this fight to happen and the fighters like whoa we know we're not gonna get this. And nothing, nobody would have never seen

no B-Vaughn, better B-If fight. That fight would have never happened. Them promoters not gonna pay that money. You know, there's so many fights out there that the promoters would have never paid for. Top Rank would have never paid the money that

Turkey paid to see Shakur and T.O. fight, right, you know, so we got so many fights because of him And we need to be appreciative of him because without him none of those fights would have happened 100% the Canelo fight wouldn't happen for me the Magimaw fight wouldn't happen for me

and so so many more. Absolutely. I think that's very exciting. But that's what the sport needed. It needed someone to come in with deep pockets that just said, let's make these fights happen.

And I think that's why, you know, boxing is on the rise right now. People is talking about boxing more. People is more supportive about boxing now. And people is tuning in to not only Riyadh season shows, but all shows. Look at Clarissa.

She just put on a hell of a performance. And it was rocking in that.

Yeah, it was crazy.

It was sold out over 16,000 people as a woman.

I know, right?

Man, she doing her thing. And people don't give women enough credit. Like she bringing out stars, you know, and man, it was a good atmosphere in there. Yeah, and it was a very skillful fight.

She fought them to the very end. They came to bang

I said I said y'all came out of there fighting like cats and dogs in that first round Yeah, I see it in her face. She wanted to knock out so bad. Oh, yeah

She's ferocious. Yeah, and so skillful too, you know, but it's she's a unique individual star, you know, but she's a unique individual star in a realm where there's not a lot of women stars. But I think a person like her can encourage others. And there could be more. And when you have one star, a lot of times it does sort of open up the landscape for more.

For sure, for sure, because she-

She transcends. She transcends boxing. Like, a lot of people know who Claressa Shields is. A lot of people know who she is. Outside of boxing. And there's not a lot of other female boxers

you could say that about. You know, there's only been a few ever, like Christy Martin...

Leilani.

Leilani.

Anne Wolfe. Anne Wolfe was good. Yeah, yeah and wolf

She could and she was a ferocious trainer to remember she was training Kirkland Yes, bro with the bag on on the back of the truck. Oh, man

I should make him go through hell, but when she when he was with her Yeah, he was phenomenal when he undefeated with her. I think he was undefeated with her and she wasn't with him when he fought Canelo Unfortunately a couple of fights on three shoes. Yeah, well, I think it was too much like it was too hard Like he didn't want he want to do it She's a tough lady man She'd put some fucking hell her training like there's some videos of her putting Kirkland through training camp

It's like my god But for a woman show to be able to do that, you know, it just shows you how impressive she was, how special she was.

But his performances showed as well. Yes. Because she was getting in his mind as well as physical. Yes. And taking everything from him and putting him in the room and now he's training.

It was kind of like Rocky. You know, you ain't got no TV. and taking everything from them and putting them in a room and now it's training. It was kind of like Rocky. You ain't got no TV, all you doing is work, eat, sleep, shit, boxing. You know, and it's just like, damn.

I got into old boxing footage real recently over the last six months. I've been watching a lot of old camps and there's some great YouTube channels that are shows Hagler's camps Mm-hmm and Hagler's camps were phenomenal So good like Hagler was rich and he would go to Provincetown this shitty little fucking town on the Cape

No disrespect Provincetown. I'm just saying and compared to where he could be. Yeah be in New York City He could be. Yeah be in New York City could be anywhere wanted But he would go to this small town in the middle of fucking nowhere and run on the beach and live in a room with no TV no nothing just eat sleep train. He was sparring a hundred rounds a week I mean it was wild watching him train was incredible It was incredible and when he would get into that ring, there was no stone unturned. No stone unturned.

And it was just all discipline and drive and focus. And he was another guy, didn't get his due. Didn't get his due until he stopped, really until he stopped Hearns. That's when people really woke up. All the inside boxing people were very aware

But it took a while it took a while before the rest of the world cuz I'm flashy. Yeah, it wasn't flashy just Dominate just break people's wills the Mugabe fight to this day is one of my favorite fights of all time Because Mugabe was putting people in the hospital. I was tough. Oh my god Mugabe hit so fucking hard. But that was the other thing about Hagler, man, how to chin from hell.

You know, Hagler had extraordinary mandible muscles that, like, they did a CAT scan on him, like a scan of his head, they said the muscles on the side of his head is like he was born with headgear. Or he developed it just from biting down

on a mouthpiece for so long. Yeah, just, ah. But I love watching those old school training footage videos, like there's some great ones of Sugar Ray Robinson running in the mountains and hitting the bag and training and all the calisthenics that he had to do. I think more people should see stuff like that just to appreciate the amount of Discipline and work that it takes to get into peak condition for a fight because I just don't think they understand what your mind Has to go through to get up for that every day over and over and over and over and over Until you're finally in the ring like the ring is almost the easy part.

Easiest. It's tough. It's like, you know, when we in Colorado and we got to run the mountain, like, sometimes I be like, man, I ain't running this mountain. Like, I don't care. And then it be like, you gonna get your ass whooped.

You better get your ass up. Or a boy come in there and be like, and then it'd be like, you gonna get your ass whooped, you better get your ass up. Or Bo would come in there and be like, let's go. I'd be like, man, Bo, let's go. I don't, Bo got this saying, anytime I'm giving him some push, he'd be like, I'm not about to argue with you for you to be great.

Let's go. I'd be like, that's great to have someone with you like that.

Hey, right. I'm like, here we go.

He's been with you from the beginning?

From the start.

That's so big too. And it's crazy because the days that I don't want to do nothing is the craziest days that I do the best, you know?

And- Because you conquered that inner bitch. Yeah.

That thing inside you that wants to not do it. Yes, even say fucking man. Yes, even be like he was like when you don't want to do something it's like You trying to hurry up and get it over with so you trying to do it fast So like my best times is when I don't want to do it Like my best Sparring is when I want to spar because it's like I'm like, all right I'm gonna fuck you up cuz I ain't about to play with you. I ain't about to go in here doing all this extra shit

You know, I don't want to get hit, you know, so it's like your best Days is when you don't want to do it. Yeah, you know, that's when I, when they come and see my training, they see what I go through three times a day. So it's eat, sleep, shit, work. You know, they like, man, you train too hard. I'm like, ain't no such thing.

You know, Tim Bradley told me, hey man, you gotta rest, you gotta chill out. Andre Ward, man, you gotta rest, you gotta chill out. Andre Ward, man, you gotta rest. And these last two training camps, I took on their advice and took it just a day off, like in a week, like every week,

instead of training seven days a week, I take one day off just not doing nothing and it helped me tremendously on my recovery.

Really?

Cause I used to just do active rest on Sunday. We'll do the incline. We'll just do the incline, that's it. In the morning, early in the morning and then we have the whole day to recover. But he like, no.

You gotta just take the whole day off, not doing nothing, just recover. And as you get, as I got older, you know, my last two training camps, I took that advice and it's just like, man, I'm like, man, I could have did this years ago. I was just so like locked in, like right if I take a day off They gonna have a day up on me right you know and I was just like I can't do that. I was working

Well, it's a fine line where there's a point of diminishing returns Where you put in too much work like seeing a guy fight when he's over trained is one of the saddest things ever It's like his drive actually fucked him. Yeah I've seen it before in MMA. It happens all the time Especially guys who don't use heart rate monitors don't monitor their resting heart rate when they get up. I knew that my last two Yeah, two camps and that was the only two camps. He did that my last two camps Wow

interesting interesting like everything was visual with my coaches because they've been with me so long. Right. So they know when to pull back. Right.

Like some days they'll be like, all right, you know.

You're peaking.

You did four rounds, nah, we done. Like man, I got eight rounds today. Ah, you good. Be like, what? You good.

Don't worry about it.

We'll come back tomorrow. You know, and I'll be like, all right. You know, I would never question them. Right. You know, or we come in there and they be like, all right, today we just gonna shadow box and we're gonna hit the mitts.

But I never question them. by watching me along the weeks to pull me back, when to pull me back. Then it started getting to me and I'm like, oh, okay, so now I know what they, they not gonna let me over train because they know I'm gonna give it my all every time I train, anything I do,

so they just pull me back. Like, all right, well we gonna just do yoga today and we gonna do boxing work, we ain't gonna do no strength conditioning or we not gonna do no road work. Or we just gonna swim.

Instead of running, we gonna swim. So some days they flip-flop.

That's the beauty of having a really good trainer.

Yeah, for sure.

And someone who's really paying attention to you and knows you, like knows the signs, knows when you're a little sluggish, knows when you're peeking a little early.

Yeah.

Before you back, yeah.

And anybody say that you train too hard, it's like, compared to who? Compared to who? It's whether or not you've built your body up to the point where you're doing that for so many years that your body's conditioned to go that hard.

You know, because there's people that used to say that if you run a marathon, like, you need, like, six months off. I had a friend, it was my friend Cameron Haynes, he runs ultra marathons. When he was training for a 250-mile run,

he was running a marathon every day. Every day. Most people, the conventional wisdom was you can't do that. Yeah, you can. You just gotta get up to that. So if a fighter is slacking off in between camps and getting fat and drinking and fucking off, and then they get back in the camp,

yeah, you can't do three hard a day like that. But if you're already in shape, and you're already conditioned, and you have built up this base of years and years of doing this, your conditioning will be so much better.

One of the things that I notice in young fighters in particular, especially in MMA, is how tired they get in a three round fight. Just a three round MMA fight, how tired they get. And I'm sure they train hard, but they don't train as hard as these guys who don't get tired in a five round fight.

So what is the difference? Well, it's the years and years of building up that cardio base, not fucking up your body, not partying.

Knowing how to breathe. That's the most important.

Being efficient. Yeah.

Because when I, my first time at the UFC, when I did strength and conditioning, I was like, man, I'm not getting none out of it. It's easy. And it was like, well, it's not meant to break you or kill you. You're going to see the difference. And I'm just like, man, when I'm doing UFC back at home, like, I'm sore. Like, I'm not sore, you know, the next day when I'm doing strength and conditioning here. But, like, gradually, you start seeing the results.

Right. You know, and it's like, damn, you know? And it's the science behind it. Yes. You know, and I was just like, in my mind, I'm like, man, I'm not working hard enough because I'm used to working hard and I'm going home

and I'm like, oh, that was a good workout. I feel it. Psychologically, I don't feel like I did nothing because my body is in so in shape. I'm like, man, I need to do more. They're like, you good, you did a lot today.

All right, so gradually I'm starting to see the effects. You know, I'm like, oh, okay. So maybe he was working me out too hard. You know, I'm getting stronger and everything. I'm just like, okay. You know, it's all a science.

It really is a science. And, you know, the problem with fighters is, especially elite fighters, is they're so driven. You know, and sometimes you can't let the dragon off the chain. You gotta like, slow down. You gotta do this, we gotta progress. Progress over time and get to that perfect point

the week before the fight where you just settle in and then fight time.

That's my guy Gavin. Gavin's just like, oh don't worry, we... Steps.

That's the beautiful thing about having someone that you can trust that really knows what they're doing. And you know, there's a lot of young fighters that are just all gas, no brakes, and they might be costing themselves a little bit. But then there's a lot of lazy fighters like, yeah, I don't wanna over train. Like, no, no, no, you're under training.

That's why you get tired all the time. You're not in good enough shape to be doing the proper workout that you need to do to really prepare for a fight. It's just this fucking dance, man. It takes forever to learn.

It takes forever. That's why a lot of fighters, they reach their prime when they get into their 30s because they get it all dialed in. They know what they need, they know what they need to do, they know what a camp really feels like, they

prepare for it. Being there, the experience, you know, so yeah, they definitely know their body, they know when they in shape, when they out of shape, what they need, when they need a little more. Experience is the best teacher, I would say.

Well, experience and then listening to people like you, that's a big factor. Listening to people that have done it all and that wisdom, the things that you've said on this podcast today, I guarantee you right now There are hundreds of thousands of fucking

Future fighters that are listening to this right now and that are probably like taking it all in Okay, cuz you know in the early days, you don't know what the fuck to do. You don't know what what's what's the what's the right? Approach is his approach is his approach like what's the right mentality? What's the right mindset? What's the right approach? Is his approach, is his approach? Like, what's the right mentality? What's the right mindset? What's, who are the right coaches? Which is a big factor. You get a bad coach and get stuck with a bad coach

and it'll limit your development.

Yeah, for sure. For sure. And that goes back to styles. When I said I was trying to coach everybody to the same style when everybody ain't meant to be trained the same. Everybody don't have the same mental capacity

to process things the same way. Some people process things different. That's kind of like yelling at a fighter. That motivated me. Sometimes that break fighters, they like, ha ha, I'm getting yelled that, I'm doing something wrong.

You know, so we look at them like, man, toughen up. You know, but nowadays it's different. Like, everything don't flock the same with one fighter like a dude, the other fighter.

No, you gotta figure out what gets your fighter going.

Yeah.

Yeah, and that's another interesting dance. I don't envy those people because your livelihood depends upon another person performing, which is kind of crazy. It's a crazy way to live your life.

I'd say any sports. Yep. Like I always say, sometimes I blame the coaches, but for the most part, the players and the fighters and the athletes, they got to go out there and perform. I can tell you go out there and do this, but if you don't go do it, then that's on you.

Now, coaches, they can make the wrong, I mean, they can get outcoached. They can call the wrong plays at the wrong times, different like that, But all in all if he go out there and miss a tackle if he go out there and not catch the ball Why am I getting fired? They go blame me

Hey, I can't make him hit the three. I can't make him, you know D up So I'm getting fired because they not performing you're also getting fired

By people that don't totally understand all the subtle nuances of what you do if you're a coach Yeah, like if they're not a coach How could you really understand if you're not day in day out with these athletes in their head working with them seeing what they're doing and proving upon their strengths Strengthening their weaknesses. If you're not doing that, you just are seeing results.

That's all you see. You're judging based on results. And you don't really know who's a good coach and who's not. Because if you're a good coach, you got shit athletes. You can only go so far.

That's it. And it's tough. It's tough to, you know, go across the middle and try to catch a bullet without, when you know the safety about to come in later, the crazy slap on you. Yep. You know, and it's crazy to go up, you know, on a seven-footer trying to shoot a three. Right.

Like, it's hard at a professional level to do what these athletes is doing, but they making it seem like it's easy on the outside for us and we like, man you didn't catch the ball. It's like, man you try to catch that ball with three people, you know what I mean, on you, you know, coming full speed and you got to worry about getting your feet inbounds and

things like that. It's so much. Well it's like T female's corner during the Shakira fight. You gotta hit him. You gotta hit him. Like, what do you think I'm trying to do?

Tell me how to hit him. Tell me how to set up to hit him. Don't just tell me you gotta hit him.

Yeah.

And that goes in to saying that everybody shouldn't be a coach. Right. Everybody shouldn't be a coach right, you know, because now you're not giving me and no instructions You you going off of emotions, right? You just telling me. Hey, you gotta hit him you you not hit him What are you doing? Yeah now what if to would have said what is you doing? Cuz you're not telling me nothing you see me trying to hit him, but he's moving You know, like what I what I supposed to do? I'm swinging and I'm missing.

So tell me how to set it up to him.

But there's really nothing anybody could have told him. The gap was just too wide at that point. Yeah, they should have studied more in training. But even then, it's like, the problem is years. It's years of advancement. It's years of is years. It's years of advancement. It's years of intelligent boxing.

It's years of setups. It's years of skills.

I think when a fighter have a good coach that's knowledgeable, and they believe in a coach, and a coach asks them to do something, and they believe that that's gonna work, they'll try it. If your coach tell you, all right, listen, he's stepping back every time you step in. So that means for every time he step back,

you gotta step in twice and double the jab and close the distance and let your hands go when you get in range. And that fighter go out there and do what the coach asked him to do and he's successful, then that's a different ballgame.

That's a different ballgame. Because now you listening to your coach, but your coach is seeing what the other fighter is doing that's making him be more successful.

Technical instruction.

There you go. Yeah. You can't just go, go out there and hit him. That's crazy.

Tell me how to do it. I hear that shit in the corner. I'm like, good Lord, what are you saying? You hear it in MMA all the time. You got to put it on him. Oh, oh, I didn't know. Oh, I got to put it on him. All this time I was hoping it would just happen. Yeah. Well, listen, man, congratulations on everything. You had a fantastic, spectacular, spectacular like one of a generation career so it's beautiful to watch and as a fan I'm honored that you came in here

and I think what you've done is just fucking incredible so congratulations on everything and enjoy it enjoy all the rest of your life you earned it all

definitely thank you very much.

All right.

Bye, everybody.

Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.