L’ARNAQUE AU PRÉSIDENT : IL VOLE 400 M € AVEC UN TÉLÉPHONE ET UN MASQUE DE MINISTRE ! GILBERT CHIKLI

Hello everyone and welcome to Legends. Today's show is going to be exceptional. We're going to welcome Gilbert Chicly. He would have turned 400 million euros following a case called the President's Scam. You've been in prison for 12 years.

Yeah.

You say you want to be the French Minister of Defense. An idea comes to my mind, bam! I make a desk, real flags, real objects. I make the desk of Mr. Le Drian in the same way. The mask, a marvel. Who do you call to start? For once, I call the presidents.

Maki Sal, the president of Senegal. You're going to see Erdogan for Turkey. When I call a president, well, I'm pretending to be Jean-Yves Le Drian. They're going to make several million euros in transfers. What's the biggest cost? 25 agreements, it was more than 20 million euros. But now, Guillaume, it's going to be non-stop. I'm attacking Hermès, Areva, Dassault, Lafarge, Vinci,

Galeries Lafayette, in short, the 440 is shaking. I'm not the only culprit. I also have accomplices, those who made the transfers and those who answered the phone. These are the victims and the accomplices, without making it obvious. Have you ever worked legally? No. Hello everyone and welcome to Legends.

Today's show is going to be exceptional. We are going to welcome Gilbert Shikly, who is a Franco-Israeli thief who has just been released from prison following a case called the President's Scam.

He pretended to be a CEO and he would have turned, and in any case he will tell us about it in a moment, between 100 and 400 million euros. There was a documentary on Netflix, and a film on him,

with Vincent Elbaz, a few years ago. We will come back to his career, he was released from prison a few months ago, and he withdrew his electronic bracelet a few days ago. It's the only interview he agreed to give to tell us about his journey and why he did that,

how he ended up calling the financial directors of a large French company, very well known, he will quote them, pretending to be the president and asking to make a transfer for the secret services, to help people, etc.

And he will get a lot of money in cash, then by transferring it to Hong Kong and other countries. He will tell us all about it. And then he made a latex mask after seeing Fantomas in prison. You will see, he made prison in France, Israel and Ukraine.

He saw the film Fantomas with a latex mask and he had this idea. And he made a mask of Jean-Yves Le Drian, formerly Minister of Defense at the time, and he called presidents, President Erdogan in Turkey, the Senegalese president of the time,

and many other presidents, asking for the same thing, making himself look like a minister, saying, you absolutely have to make us a transfer to help us, I will give you this back, etc. By giving them bribes, he managed to get out of the money. He will tell us about the crazy period where he started to earn a lot of money, where he spent any way he could in 30,000, 40,000 euros a day,

you will see, for several months, in Monaco in particular. A gangster life that he regrets today since he says he would have liked to have enjoyed more of his six children. He would have liked to have more freedom

and finally end up 12 years in prison. It was much harder and he said that the game was not the candle, he will tell us all this now. Just before starting the show, I remind you, if you discover us today, subscribe in 2 seconds to our YouTube channel, friends. It really takes 30 seconds and it helps us a lot to have exceptional guests like Gilbert today. Subscribe, do not hesitate to comment the show and then if you discover us too, we're on podcast audio, just the audio version on Spotify. You can put us on the road, on Deezer, on Apple Podcasts or Amazon Podcasts.

Thank you. Today, we're still on podcast number one. So thank you all so much for being so many to follow us. And our partner on this show is Finari. It's an application that helps you manage your money better. We met the founder, Mounir Lagoun, a while ago. We talked about money, wealth and how the French manage their wealth. We talked about the mistakes we all make,

like letting too much money sleep on bank accounts, not keeping the investment fees or taking decisions at the cost of an emotion. We met Corentin, who is in charge of private management at Finary, to talk about big fortunes, especially French ones. He explained how the very rich stay rich and how they invest to build an even bigger fortune

over several generations. And then we went back to concrete cases, the example of the Hermès family, for example, the Rothschild family, the Rockefellers, for example. So if you haven't seen the show yet, with Mounir Lagoon and Finary,

the link is in the description of this YouTube video, in the description of this YouTube video, in the description of the podcast audio, if you listen to us on the podcast audio platform. And I remind you that we are going on tour in October and November 2026. We are going for a show in the central stage. We have reserved in the 16 largest cities in France and in Brussels, we come to Belgium, the largest rooms of each city, to come and see you. And we take 6 guests who have marked the channel. There will be, in particular, Philippe Boxhall, a doctor of law,

a pilot of a Tiger helicopter, Julien, an astrophysicist who comes with us, an old trader who has become a banker, who has gone to the other side, and who will tell us what he saw inside the financial system. There will also be a sex therapist who will be there. In any case, you can come as a family to see this show, it's everyone will tell three exceptional anecdotes that he never told on a central stage. There will be Franck Duboz on some dates,

Kev Adam on others, Michael Younes who will come too, there will be Maxime Gasteuil who will be there for example in Bordeaux and Toulouse. In any case, I put you all the dates that are displayed here in the image. So here we will be on October 11th. On October 17th, in Montpellier, also at the South of France Arena,

and in Nice, for example, on October 27th, at the Palais Nikaia. And we will also be twice in Paris, so on the 14th and are a lot of surprises, you'll see, there are a lot of big surprises every night that will come in addition to this show. In any case, I can't wait to see you there and let's go with Gilbert Chikly, who is our exceptional guest for his first interview on Legendes, let's go! Here I am Gilbert Chikly, I am the author of The President's Scandal, The Minister's Scandal. I never wanted to express myself on this subject, but I don't know why. And I decided to express myself, to explain myself with legend.

Guillaume Play, that's it.

Thank you very much. Welcome. You're Franco-Israeli, you're 60 years old. You don't do it at 60. Yeah, well, that's nice. That's what everyone told you when you joined the team. Yeah, they told me, but there's a reason for that. Because when you spend a lot of years in prison, when you spend a lot of years in prison, obviously,

well, it keeps you. You have to admit it. You think it keeps you? Well, yes, because it's like being in a freezer. And after your year, you're released and you find the same character as when you went to prison. You spent 12 years in prison.

Yes.

You did... We'll come back to your journey, to explain the story. It's really exceptional, he never did long interviews, he never explained his story. Never. You had an electronic arm until a few weeks before the shooting. Until a few days ago.

A few days ago, you weren't even allowed to talk before. No, I wasn't allowed. You went to prison, we'll come back to that, but in France, in La Santé, you've been in prison for several years, you went to Israel, you went to Ukraine too. Yes, I went everywhere. You underwent prison guard in Ukraine to have to have security, but also you told us about a fridge.

You had some exceptional anecdotes. And you created what we call the President's Scam. There is a documentary available on Netflix. You didn't participate in the documentary, I have to clarify. It's called Le Masque.

What do you think about this documentary, before we explain the story? I think that, very honestly, I think it doesn't reflect what really happened. And I want to tell you what will reflect what really happened, that's what I'm going to explain to you now.

Because Netflix, they abused a bit, there were a lot of lies, to be honest. I didn't participate in this Netflix production, so they took some reports here and there, and then they regrouped, and then they launched the information. But, very honestly, I think they should have waited

for me to go out to express myself. There was a film called Je compte sur vous with Vincent Elbaz, which was also released in 2015. The scam against the president, the principle was to pretend to be the president of a big company, of the CAC 40, a company with a lot of money,

to call the financial director, to make himself look like the director, by calling the financial director and telling him that he had to make a quick transfer on this account in China, or another, we'll come back to that in detail, because we have to acquire a company, a subsidiary, but it has to remain a secret for a week, so don't say anything, etc. and you succeeded. Or at least, today, it is said that you stole 400 million euros.

That's what they say. I just want to come back. It wasn't just the acquisitions, there was also the DGSI, where I pretended to be a fake spy. You made several scenarios.

Exactly.

And then it evolved, we'll come back to that, but in prison, you thought about making bigger. I think so. It didn't make you want to calm down? Absolutely not, it was the complete opposite. In fact, for two years you thought about it and you got a fake mask made, you'll see, we'll put an image for you if you watch us on video.

You got a job for Jean-Yves Le Drian, who was the Minister of Defense at the time, now he's the Minister of the Army. and you called presidents, African presidents, you had Erdogan too, you had, for Turkey, you had... Yes, Maki Sal, Senegal. Senegal, and you managed to get yourself to be a French minister by saying, listen, give me money, I'll pay you back, it's for a certain subject, you're going to explain all this to us.

Yes, yes. But it seems unreal in your story. So, it's unreal, yes it's unreal, and yet it really happened, the same way you just explained it. But I want to tell you that, I will tell you very honestly, when I put on Jean-Yves Le Drian's mask, you should know that I was the minister. That is to say that in my skin, you lived it, I really lived it.

That is to say that when I spoke with a president of state, well, I spoke as a minister of defense. And maybe that's what made me succeed in all my attempts. That's it. I specify, it was in video. You called in video, in phase 2, but you managed to see in video, in FaceTime, you managed to see presidents live, it worked.

Yes, absolutely. And I also learned about the president's behavior. It was extremely important. You were working? Yes, I was working I also looked into the president's behaviour. It was extremely important. You were working? Yes, I was working on the behaviour of each president I had to call, because the information was extremely important. And for the first time, I'm going to tell you,

because you're going to ask me this question, how did you get his presidential number? Because not everyone can call a president of the Republic. You're not talking about Erdogan by... By making a number. He had to have his own number.

And I had their own phone number. So, I don't know if I should say it now or maybe... No, we'll come back to the story. We'll come back, yes, because... Really, I never wanted to say it. Well, now that the sentence is over, that I've done my part, I can tell you...

There have been many shows on you, but without you. We prepared them, I saw them on Canal+, people came with commentators, they came to intervene, but you never spoke, you never explained what happened. It was only that.

What's important is to understand the course, not to judge an act, to understand your course, not to judge on an act, to really understand your course, since childhood, that's what we do on Déjean. We take the course of the guests, without judging, to understand their choices, why did you choose A or B, when in your life did you arrive, you were placed, it's important to understand that,

you were placed in a nursing home at the age of 9. Yes. I read that, is that true? Yes, of course. I was placed in the Drôme. It was called Homme Saint Christophe. By the way, I had a Christian education. Because Homme Saint Christophe was like good sisters of the time.

And there I learned to read, to count, to express myself, in short. And yes, so I was at Home Saint-Christophe, a youngster in the Drôme. Because at first you grew up in Paris, in the neighborhood of Belleville, you live, you are six in a small apartment?

Yes, we are six, yes, absolutely. And I may have understood at that time, very young, that it was just not possible. That is to say. We lived, we had two brothers and two sisters, I had two brothers and two sisters, all in the same room,

when we slept it was the feet of the other, who walked around in the feet of the other, when we peed in bed it was everyone who was watered, no but, we have to say, we had no cook, it was, you know, the stove where we made a kind of pot,

except that sometimes there was nothing to eat and there was only the smell. So at one time it was fine, at another time it was fine, at another time it was fine. My father, may God rest his soul, worked for a misery, my mother didn't work. It was extremely difficult. How many square meters were you sitting in? I think we were in 10 square meters or 15 square meters, maximum. And I think I understood at a young age that we had to get out of it. Really. I couldn't stand staying at home. I was running away a lot.

I was already very young when I had this freedom. And I understood at that moment that I had to help my family. Indirectly, I understood that I had to become the support of my family. And I think that's where it all started. Financial support too? Financial, because I was very young, I was managing. You know, quickly, I remember

going to the subway, playing the flute, even though I don't play it, and people gave me coins, I bought food, and my mother said, but it's incredible, how he manages to manage like that, so young. So I was scolded by my father, but it was useless, of course. But I understand that the more I managed, the more the family was breathing. You will have ideas after a first scam at the time.

They were smaller than after. The scam with the president, you have to know that it was you who thought, who created. There were more than a billion total ... Prejudices. Prejudices on the totality of the scams, not because of you, but you invented a scam that multiplied. That multiplied.

Some people had the idea of doing the same thing as you. It was further than that. It was done in all languages. I did it in French, but there were English people doing it in English, Germans doing it in German, Italians doing it in Italian. And it was a big deal all over the planet.

But that's not your first scam. Your first scam was selling advertising posters when you were 13. We pretended to be political parties and we sold crazy advertising posters. That's it.

That is to say, we said it was going to be multiplied to 200, 300,000 copies. In reality, it wasn't true. If there were 5 people paying, we would do the book 5 times. We would distribute it, the person was calm, and I earned a lot of time, my life like that. So you never worked legally?

No. No, no, because... I realized it when I was 11. Yes, I realized it much later, but no. In fact, I always tried to get rid of myself in one way or another. But you could have gotten rid of yourself... It's a choice.

It's a choice, but you never offered me to work. It's smart, you could have had a normal job. Yes, except that the last time I worked with my father, it lasted a week, my father was a tire mechanic. Your father was? He was a tire mechanic. He worked at SELS tires,

in car tires. Except that when he hired me, I think it was the only time I worked there for two weeks, I managed to get the storekeeper to work so that we could get the maximum tires and sell it to our competitors.

And of course, it lasted two weeks, I was fired, but I had also made money thanks to that. So you were doing small things at the beginning, advertising, until what age? So that we understand the course. Until the age of, let's say, 18, maybe. 18, 19 years old.

And then I set up this structure called Mondial Négos. So Mondial Négos, it's... Imagine that I was ahead because my time because I made a system of Amazon. By the way, it's on the Internet, you'll see, it's written on a platform. So I had put a platform in place and I was calling all the business leaders telling them that we were OK to buy their merchandise

and to be able to distribute it to distributors. Except that you had to pay a fee so that these structures could take over the goods. But in truth, the deposit was put in the pocket. And so, we put their images on the Internet, etc., and we put them online, but no one bought them because there was no one who looked at my site. And you left with the deposit?

And I left with the deposit. Every time? Every time. And there, there was a multitude of companies. I think that multitude of companies. I think that's when it started. I mean, the turnover started to go up, and that's when I started to make money.

That's when it got interesting. So you never had a salary report at 60? Well, I had one, but 15 days. I think it wasn't even validated, actually. And how do you do for retirement? Well, I don't really believe in it.

We'll come back to it, sorry. I went a bit far, but we'll come back to it. We have to understand it well. When will you have this idea of a fraud to the president, that you will create, that will multiply, for which we will accuse you

of having turned 400 million euros? When I was doing, you know, how would I say, advertising campaigns, when the client had to pay, it sometimes blocked at the bank level. And on other products, by the way.

For real reasons, there are bank problems. But the reason was simple. Every time it came back to it. Listen, I'm going to talk to my director, I'm going to talk to my president. If he agrees, we'll come back to you. And at some point I said no.

The president. Always the president. Always the president, president, president. It's the boss who decides. Yeah, it's the boss who decides. I said, well, we're fed up. And then one day I said to myself, well, you know what? Well, we're going to get ourselves in trouble for the president.

That is, by getting ourselves in trouble for the president and by calling the director, the we will come back to it, you will make a lot of scams, they will sometimes make transfers of several million euros, you imitate the voice, because, I mean, the financial director, he recognizes well that it is not his president.

So, that's where I said I had the best understanding. That's much further. It's important to understand that all bank managers don't know their president. And I understood that. When you have a general company, you have several agencies in Paris, in France... All the big banks have several agencies in the country. Yes, they have several agencies,

and maybe even subsidiaries abroad, that also speak French. And obviously, these small bank managers don't know their president, don't know the voice of their president. How do you say manager?

For example, the manager of the agency of BNP in Bordeaux, the manager of Societe Generale in Pau. There are managers in each agency. And then I realized that when I pretended to be a president, well, yes, hello Mr. President. So I understand at this moment...

Who believes in you. that he believes in me and that he doesn't know the voice of his real president. And it was a time when there was less internet, or no internet. There was no internet, practically no internet. So it was enough to be a good actor, a good liar, to have an impact of persuasion,

and to be sure of yourself. And I think that was what it was. And so, what was the first time you really won your life and made a big hit? It was La Poste. La Poste. Yes, La Poste.

I call the bank's director. I don't go back to the bank's president's system. I'm in a new scenario, the one of the fake... let's say, the secret service. So, from the... Ah yes, first, you let yourself go...

You're going to make the scenario evolve and understand. Exactly. You're going to fail, you're not going to fail, you're going to learn, that's what you're saying. In fact, I'm going to learn as I go. To refine your scenarios.

Exactly. And I thought, there will be a lot more impact. A lot more impact. So what do I do? In fact, at first, yes, I make the call, as if I were the president of this bank. What do I say to this banker? I say, listen, this is your president of the company, you will be called by a service, the service of the DGIC, so the secret services, I ask you to respect his request. And to do exactly what he asks you.

Obviously, the director says, yes, Mr. President, perfect, listen, I'm waiting for his call. Already, the first phase, we finished it. You see that it holds. It holds because she says, I'm waiting for his call, extremely important. When she says, I'm waiting for his call, don't worry, Mr. President, I will be up to the situation. For me, it's over.

In our jargon, we say that it's in the box. The fish is a fish, as you say.

Yes.

You know you have it. Now, that's not why it's going to succeed. That's not why it's going to succeed. You're talking about your first shot. I'm in the first shot. So now, second phase, I am the agent... But it's the same voice!

So, I change the voice a little bit, but I understand that... You have to understand that, in the first instance of the president's voice, it lasts 30 seconds. Yes, hello, your president, the same. And then after, yes, hello, how are you? When you say your president, you say the name of the person, I know everything. Of course, of course, of course.

You worked before. I get information first. So, you have to know that when you go on the Internet, you have all the names of the presidents, the heart of a man, everything that goes with it, everything they did, etc. You take the information, because without information you can't do anything. You learn your legend.

As in the history, they learn their legend. Exactly, I want to tell you. I learn exactly. And so, once I have the information, I know who I am, I put myself in the shoes of the President, obviously, as if I were him, in the end. And so, I call this bank manager, and I tell her, so, I come back to this,

a person from the Secret Service will call you, I ask you to respect his requests and to do everything they ask you. It's extremely important. To do everything they ask you. You have a blank card. You didn't fail before, you start, you get there straight away.

No, it's the first case. So I don't know how it's going to go. But for now, it's going well. And when I get the job at the secret service agency, and then the story begins. And I use a situation that doesn't exist in reality. Hello, how are you?

Mr. Paul at the device. Secret service. And I know that... You know, when we talk about secret service, I know that it's a bit funny, and maybe we even think of ourselves as a secret service, because now we're going to hire her,

so she's going into a system, into a film, into a situation, maybe she's going to love it. That's exactly what happened. Oh, well, Mr. Paul, I'm at your service, tell me what's going on, I'll tell you everything, and then the case begins. But what did you tell him? So, in a nutshell, because it's extremely long, of course, it lasts an hour, sometimes half an hour, sometimes 20 minutes, but it still lasts a long time. And so I told this person, listen, we have hostages that are abroad, we have to free them, except that France does not pay interest. And officially, we will do it via a platform.

And as we had the validity of your president, we will do it via your banking service. Oh, but listen, I'm yours, etc. And so I tell him a little bit of everything, anything. He tells me his life, I tell him how it's going to happen. And then the moment comes, the right moment, I mean, where you have to go.

And then I tell him, listen, we're going to have to get some money that we've already put on your account. And that's when I panic a little, I mean, because I know, I tell him a little bit of everything and anything. Yes, you invent as I go along. You don't have a scenario for a moment like this. I tell her, your tickets, we put some kind of micro film in all the tickets, and we need these tickets to be able to pay these people and to be able to trace them.

She says, ah, you did that? I say, yes. All our secret services are already in the process and everything is prepared. She says, but how do we do it? I say, well, it's not complicated. You go, I think you have, how much money do you have available? I gave her a poker hand.

She said, listen, in cash we have 300 and a few thousand euros. I said, no, you have 280,000 euros. These are those tickets that are already with all these little microphones, fibers, etc. She said, how do you know that? We are part of the secret services, you forgot that. Yes, yes, I'm stupid, you're right. And so we need it, we need it for 48 hours.

How do I do it? You'll get it back, I'll do it very quickly, Guillaume. And I said, you put it in a bag. She said, no, that's not possible. I said, that is to say? She said, no, no, no, you know, I can't do that, you understand. And then, obviously, I put a little pressure.

I said, you know, Madam Director, on behalf of France ... Wait, but she's getting into the picture. She's getting into the picture. And then, I said, on behalf of these people who are taken hostage, he wins them over because you are the ones who will offer them their freedom. She said, of course, because without you, they will stay there. It's as you want, you want us to stop, we stop. You want us to continue, we continue.

You know what? We continue. Perfect. And then she said to me, wait, can you call me back in 5 minutes? So you should know that when I call her, it's on her mobile number, sorry, on her mobile number, certainly not a bank service,

since everything is registered. And so... Do you call her a hidden number? Yes, always masked, since we are part of the secret service, of course. And on top of that, I call her with the little phone, all rotten, at 50 euros that I bought half a year before.

And that I put, maybe, 30 euros of recharge. What year are we in? These were the first... We are in 2006, I think, 2005? 2006, yes, 2005. I call her and I say, and so, she says to me,

well, listen, we have 272,000 euros. I said, listen, that's perfect. You're going to put all this in a bag, especially not to go out through the front door, but you're going to go out through the back door, that is, the back door, you know, on the banks there are always two entrances and two exits.

And he said, listen, that's perfect, what do I do? I said, you take your car and you go to the National Canyon.

When you get there, I'll tell you what to do.

What city was that? Without mentioning the bank. Paris is 200 km from Paris. Okay, we won't mention the city. We won't mention the city. So, I'm live with her until she can take the money, to be sure she really takes the money,

but above all to know if she doesn't make me a bad move. Obviously. And I feel things, you know, I breathe them, I listen to them, I analyze them. Not because she calls the police and says, we're taking me for a... And there I see that, here she takes her bag and I hear the...

you know, the bells, ta-ta-ta, shbling and everything. It's not possible. But I tell myself, let's be careful. And I realize, when I realize that the blow is going to be good, it's when she says goodbye to her colleague. She hears her colleague saying goodbye. Yes. She says, listen, I'll be back a little later, you do this, you do that.

Yes, very good, Mrs. Eintell. And then I say, this is serious. She leaves, I'm still on the phone with her. Are you alone, on your side? I'm always on the phone with her. Are you alone? I'm alone. You're always making your own deals? Alone. Always alone.

Alone. I don't need anyone. And so, I see her taking the car and I go, but I'm very attentive. If she had had two knocks, I'd say there's a problem. Except I hear one knock.

So, it's hers. It's the driver's's knock, we agree. And then, during the whole journey, I talk to her. I call her every ten minutes. How are you? And she says to me, you know, I'm a little tense.

Don't worry, we're following you from afar. We're with you. You stay calm. Everything is fine. No worries. Do you see this car that just passed?

A little bit black, of course. There are black cars passing by every 2 minutes. Oh yes, I saw them pass by. It's ours. We're following you. Everything's fine. She says, perfect.

And then she arrives in Paris.

Except that in the meantime,

obviously, there are people who have to get the money.

And that's you doing it, no?

No, no, I'm explaining.

I'm at 4000 km at the moment. Where are you at the time? I'm it Israel. You're not in Paris, I thought you were bringing it to you. Not at all. You lived there? Yes, I lived there. And so, I...

But you were living off of scams there too? I was starting this scam with the president, of course. So, no, I wasn't living off of scams. I was doing, as you said earlier, advertising campaigns, quick, well done,

we were a little bit more... it was going a little bit higher, but... That's my first mistake. But except that the day before, I let two people go. In Paris. Shirley. Shirley, who is it?

It's a person who worked with me as a courtier at the time, who also lived in Israel, and my brother, who will unfortunately be in prison for 15 months because he was practically unaware of the situation. And so I contacted these two people, I told them, listen, take the plane at night, you will get a large sum tomorrow morning,

it was my first time, I will tell you whether or not you will go get it. They go, they tell me, we'll get the money back. And I told them that there was 50,000 euros to win for each of us. Of course, they took the plane at night. So, when they arrived, these two people were already in Paris. But they were in front of the Nation's canon. What is the Nation's canon?

It's a brasserie that is in the place of the Nation. It was the appointment of this banker who had to deposit this money. Except that I asked this banker to dress all in white, with a white hat and a red scarf, to be able to spot her. When my brother and Shirley arrived there, I said, do you see a person with a white hat?

You mean she went back to her house? The banker? No, no, no. The day before, I forgot, I asked her to wear a white outfit with a kind of red scarf. And so, when my brother and Shirley arrived there,

she said, listen, yes, there are people, we see a person, actually, dressed in all white, with a red scarf, but she has a big bag. » And then the pressure rises, because I finally ask myself, « Isn't it a guy hitting on girls?

When they arrive, won't they just get arrested? » But I take her on the phone, I listen to her, I listen to her, I listen to her, and I see that everything is fine. And then I tell her, listen, you're going to the bathroom, there's a person who's going to knock on the door three times,

and who's going to give you a code, I think it was 972, by the way. You're going to open the door a little bit, and you're going to give her the bag and close it again. She says, very well. Meanwhile, of course, before that, she takes a Coca-Cola, you know, a kind of drink, a kind of drink. And there, I say, what do I do? I go, I don't go, I send them, I don't send them, and I wait another 2-3 minutes to see if there is no passage,

but my brother says, everything is fine, nothing special. I say, come on, let's go, you go down. And there, Charley goes down. And she knocks on the door. And I hear everything live, of course. 972, yes, perfect. She opens the door, I hear the door,

and she gives the bag, Charley takes it, and she closes the door, the counter, in the toilets. Charley goes up, because we go up the stairs, everything is fine, the heart beats a goes upstairs, and goes up the stairs. Everything is fine. Her heart beats fast, of course. She gets in the car with my brother.

I ask her, to be careful, to see if it's bluff, to open the bag. They open the bag, and I say to them,

what is this thing filled with notes?

I say, take the car,

and leave right now.

I understood that the plan worked.

That was the first seed? The first. I said to myself, incredible. I called the banker, because she wasn't going to stay in the bathroom for 6 hours, because she was waiting for me to come out of the bathroom. I called her, I said, Madam, you can go to the bathroom. The services will check all the tickets.

And she goes up, she sits on the terrace with her coca, and then she says a sentence to me. It made me a little bit sad to be very honest with you Guillaume, but she says to me, I have a problem.

I say, but what is your problem? She says to me, I took a coke, but I don't have enough money to pay her. I said, that's not true. She gave me, I don't know how much, she didn't even keep 5 euros to pay... No, that's not true, that's not true. She doesn't have a credit card?

Well, listen, I don't know... I think she left like that, she told me... And then, I told her the truth. I said, listen, I'll be very honest with you, it's a scam. There's no DGSI service.

She says, no, not that. I'm here. You don't feel guilty at all? At this moment, no. I feel especially happy to have taken

a bag with several thousand euros. I think it was... It deserves to be said. Yes, but... Yes, you're happy because you're privatized. Yes, because there are 472,000 euros, I don't know... 272.

Or 272. The first time, I don't think about the damage in the future. Consequences. Consequences. I tell myself, that's it, I succeeded, but I go much further than that. You told me earlier, and you also said it in court, but you are careful not to hurt people in danger,

sensitive or who are poor. You take money from companies that have a lot of money. You say it's important for you. Yes, when you take 272,000 euros from a bank... You wouldn't do it to a family member. Absolutely not.

You didn't cheat. No, family member? Absolutely not. You didn't scam people?

No, no, no, no.

You'll understand later why. We attacked, I'll remind you, the 440, the biggest companies, I mean, the very rich individuals, such as the Prince of Gakan, for example, the billionaire, or other billionaires, by the way.

No, no. I'm just coming back to this lady. And so, he leaves, of course. She leaves, but Guillaume, I tell myself, at this moment, Gilbert, you're going to get rich. Because I also understand at this moment, something has just happened, and it's not going to stop.

Yes.

How many years are you going to make of the scams? More than 10 years. A carnage. You know, when I say a carnage, I mean that in the end, I didn't care how to make money, or how to try to make money, but above all how to spend it and how to place it.

You don't even know how to spend it anymore. I saw that you took hotel rooms for 30,000 dollars a night for several months. So, the rooms you're talking about, an inspector I know well, he followed me. They went everywhere, to Monaco, they did research. Disaster, I was saying to the judge that I had won 2,000 euros when they told me that. Yes, but you were in a room with 30,000 euros, private jets, all that, it was a disaster for me. But hey, it was difficult to deny the opposite.

Wait, so to finish on this anecdote, sorry. So, there you're going to make a lot of money, first of all, you're going to tell the lady, you're not going to get arrested on this first scam, right? Oh no, I understand at this moment that... That it works. That a door is open and that it works.

They don't trace the phone number? Oh, well, they're all rotten phones that you throw away right after. Because at the time, SIM cards were not allowed. You bought that everywhere, you put your SIM card. And it worked? And it worked. I was doing 103110. For those who don't know, it's a private number,

but I think a lot of people know it. It would be more complicated to do today. Yes, but at the time, there was no... Now there are surveillance cameras, they can find you. Yes, of course. It didn't exist at the time. So I understand that there is an open door. And you will continue the circles? What did it take you, a few days?

It took me 48 hours. And when are you going to do another one? Are you going to continue right away? I'm going to continue one right behind.

Who is it going to be?

The Mount, the Crédit Lyonnais. The LCL today. And there, it's 972,000 euros. But there, I have a lot more confidence in myself. Do you still pretend to be a spy? Always, for the president of the bank at first. Then a spy?

And then a spy. And it's always the same mess. Always. But a little more supported, a little more romantic, a little more refined, and everything that goes with it. Now I understand that I have to stay longer to talk to the bank director, because I also have to be interested in her life,

that I tell her, don't worry, for the future, your president will give you a much more important status than that of the director of your agency, for example. You're actually refining your scenario. Yes, I'm refining, yes. And now it's your agency, for example. You're actually refining your scenario. Yes, I'm refining it. And there it's 972,000 euros. And it's always your brother who's going to get it and who's going to get it.

No, it's another person. Because my brother refuses for the second time. And so it's another person that I send, that I won't mention the names because they weren't incul 972,000 euros. So we reached a point of... Still liquid? Still liquid. And still the same serenade. Always the same.

But, I'm going a bit stronger here, I'm a bit inflated in the matter, I have to say. I do it in the same place and in the same toilets. And the police start to get angry. I mean, I understand that we have to think that he's taking us for an idiot.

This one is going to stop. And what are you going to do with the money for the first two? You're going to make a lot of money, but you're already coming with cash. So, I'm coming with 900,000 euros. Do you live the big life right away or or do you say, I'll keep going? I'll be very honest with you, Guillaume, I've always lived well.

To be very honest, because of the jobs I did. When I said I was doing advertising, I was earning maybe 50,000, 60,000 euros a month. Just, I'm just saying. So, it's okay, I've always had a comfortable life. when I took... Yes, but there is a gap with 900,000 euros in 48 hours. So there you really find yourself with cash... Everything changes there.

That is to say that there you are right, I have 900 and a few thousand euros at once, but when I have 900,000 euros at once, I know that I will earn a lot more. I know it. I know it will go very fast, but especially very strong and especially very far. I know. And so, I take this 972,000 euros, and to answer your question, well, it's not complicated.

Right away, we're all happy, so I buy a car, I buy a motorcycle, I buy another apartment, in short, to be very honest with you. Aren't you afraid of being caught? No. Because the guys, they spend you all of a lot, they buy cars in cash. No, no, because back then... Today it would be over, end of the line.

Back then it was easy. The money that comes out, that comes in. In 2005 it was extremely easy. We are no longer in this time where everything is traced, everything is verified. You were still in Israel. Yes, still in Israel. I buy all that and I take it for a rich man. Well, yes.

And you're doing a third one right away? So, here I tell myself, the information is given. So, we won't take any more species. And I'm going to try another move. And this time it's going to be the transfers. Except that the transfers...

That's traceable. It's traceable. It's traceable, so I have to appeal to extremely professional people in the field. And that's not easy. So you make a bank account where? that are prepared, in which the owners of the accounts are straw men. A straw man is someone who is told, I give you 10% and you open accounts.

You open accounts, but if one day... You get fired, you get shit. And you say you didn't know, you won't take much. Exactly, that's what we call either straw managers or straw men. There's that for a lot of nightclub restaurants. It's something that's been quite common for years. Absolutely.

And then I meet someone, whose name I won't mention, and he tells me, listen, forget all that. There are organizations for that, who have bank accounts. International. International, where you send them and they take 40%.

Wow.

A lot.

It's a lot. Except that this person tells me, look, you don't take any more risks, you just have to call, you send the transfer and then 24 hours later, as soon as you pay, we come and we deposit the money directly at home. I thought, I said to myself, why not pay this service and then it secures everyone and then finally there is just to call. I thought about it and I said to myself, why not pay for this service?

And it secures everyone and in the end, there's just a call. And then we send it, in a car, and that's it. But I don't know how it's going to work. What country is the account in at the time? I'll explain. The first account was opened in Hong Kong. An incredible bank. It takes everything.

I've never seen that. Meaning, 1 million, 2 million, 10 million, 20 million... You don't ask questions. You don't ask questions, everything is fine, sir. You have costs that are a little higher than normal. But we take it.

But we take it.

We are less conservative. But worse, we make you a transfer where you want, sir. But worse, we make you a black card, numbered, and you can spend it all over the world, we won't know it's you. Ah, what a joy! That's exactly what I needed.

First scam, I attacked the Schneider company, at the time. So, a company based in France, Schneider? It's a company that manages energy, if I'm not mistaken. Exactly.

A big company. A big company. Very, very big. And so I call the financial director. You look on the internet, just the name, and you get the guy's name. I look on the internet, I look at the president's pedigree,

in short, always the same. Look, it was very simple in the end. It was a in the end. Because it multiplied in the whole world, quite simply. You will understand what happened. And in fact, I call Schneider, but here I push the plug a little bit. That is to say, by doing the same debate, the same technique,

the guy, I wake him up at one o'clock in the morning, and I ask him to go to his office to see if he was at my disposal. But he's not a bank, if you change... A director of... So, now it's a company. It's a company, because the others were bank directors. Yes, there was cash available.

Absolutely, but now we're talking about transfers. So now you don't need cash anymore. I don't need cash anymore. He just has to tap on his... Yes, he sends a transfer. To validate. Thank you, goodbye. And when he moves, yes, Mr. Hintel, because I am the secret service, the president has already called him before, so everything is fine, everything is tangled.

But the director, the financier, he doesn't recognize that it's not the voice of his CEO, because it's in the same tower, at this level, right? No, but you know, Guillaume, I noticed one thing, I think all those directors who work in big companies are fed up with it. And I also realized that the presidents changed a lot. So they never heard them. And I want to tell you, when you have a neutral voice, it can be twisted,

and they don't dare to ask him if it's his voice or not. Maybe you don't have a neutral voice, you have a voice that we recognize. Yes, yes. A broken voice. Yes, of course, but it's ok. And maybe because it's this broken voice that makes this imposing voice, in quotation marks, when I called these people.

And these people actually stay there until one in the morning. It's not possible. Now we are on a first turn. You get it? Is it something you will keep, this legend, with him and the financial director, for several days or is it really very fast? I will keep it for two days. And you have a first transfer?

And I have a first transfer, I think, of 1.8 million. 1.8 million and he doesn't even know who he's sending it to? So, I give him, listen carefully, I give him a bank identity certificate in an oral voice. I mean, I have it repeated ten times, because at the time, there was no such thing as an internet system, no fax, and we didn't know how to do it. Well, you write it down.

0, 1, 8, repeat. 0, he repeated everything I said. We saw that there was no mistake. You send the transfer. And you told him that it was for what? Because there was a transfer a 1,800? Always the same system to release this, that.

Or sometimes I was telling him, it's acquisition fusions, we talked about it earlier. That is, we are buying a company. Buying a company. A subsidiary. And we need submarine funds, because that's how it works. Guillaume, I'll tell you a little more about it later.

That is, the big companies... and presidents of some countries, you had some information, sometimes even confidential. Of course, of course. And even big companies, that could have been dangerous for you, by the way. That could have been dangerous, yes.

By force, it could have been dangerous for me.

But...

By force of play, you can get burned, you have to be careful. Yes, except that I wasn't burned. In any case, I had the firemen who were not very far away, so person makes 1.8 million. But 1.8 million in my head is a million and eight, those are numbers. And then I hear the bling, you know, the bell, the hockey. I tell myself, Guillaume, he's bluffing. I promise you, I say, it's not possible.

I speak to myself, I tell myself, it's not possible. Except that...

You know, in Hong Kong, there's a time gap.

I think around 4am, 4.30am, I get a call. I'm told I have the money, I say yes.

They tell me, there you go, 1,872,000 euros have arrived.

Oh, shit.

I get up in a hurry.

I say, what do we do? They says, we're going to dispatch them. An hour later, everything was dispatched.

So, this person

just made 1,872,000 euros on an account, only because I called him on the phone and I pretended to be his president and then

for an agent of the EDG here.

And so you're going to get cash with the 40% less? Yes. And so we do the math, I don't remember how much I take, but that's not it. I call the same person, the funds have arrived, I told you, I'm someone who's extremely serious, as soon as he tells me I'm someone an extremely serious person, we go for it. He'll end up with 7 million euros.

Between 2 million, 1 million, 1.8 million, the amount, the loss will be 7.3 million and some bucks.

Things are serious here.

7 million! And what are you doing with all this cash? What is it? Is it cash? Do you get it in dollars? I get it in dollars, in euros. But I want to tell you, Guillaume, problems are starting.

Problems are starting. Why? Well, yes. What is this life? What is this life? What is this life? You regret it, you told me.

You told me about the prison. That's why we're talking about it. Of course. Of course I regret it in the end. But you're galvanized. So, my friends are not missing. The...

The... The mafia is not missing either, because they hear that something is happening. And here, it comes from everywhere. But there is someone who is doing I don't know what, who earns millions of euros.

Why? Because... I have the clumsiness

to buy a house.

With cash? I'm sick of buying the latest Range Rover. I'm sick of buying Rolexes from 3M. And I'm sick of buying a yacht. I'm sick of it all. But I'm going crazy myself But I go crazy myself!

Yeah, because you say it's unlimited. I said it's unlimited. So, listen to what I'm about to tell you, Guillaume. Why am I spending all this? Because I know that tomorrow, I can do the same thing and earn even more than that.

What are you buying as a house? A very big villa that we sold, which cost, I think, 3 million, or 2-3 million at the time. But that's not it, it's that it's leaking everywhere. And I'm not talking about parties, and I'm not talking about hotels, and I'm not talking about this, I'm not talking about that. Except that I burn maybe 5.5 million in 3 months.

And I'm not talking about casinos. You live the big life. I live the big life. So I tell myself... You become very visible. I become very visible.

That's what lost me. Because there are secret services everywhere, in the warehouses, you can see guys burning cash. It starts to blow up everywhere. But that's not it. I'm going much further. It's going to be non-stop.

And who are we talking about? We're talking about Dassault, about... Areva, you're going to do. Areva. Lafarge, Vinci. Lafarge, Vinci. Lafarge, Vinci.

All the big companies. Galeries Lafayette. In short, the 440 is shaking. Gentlemen, there is a virus that is wandering I don't know where, I don't know how and that is taking unimaginable amounts except that they don't know...

Even Dassault, you took 12 million. Dassault, yes, yes. Oh, I think even a little more, I think it was a fifteen, yeah, or twelve officially. I don't know anymore because we're going to talk about the official and the unofficial anyway. We have to put things in place. Sometimes they say that there is only... We took advantage of it in this story, we must not...

We must say everything. I think the justice understood it. We understood, but we closed our eyes a bit and said, let's not go into that. How many will you do in that first room? You don't even know? I don't know.

Dozens?

Oh yes, much more than dozens.

Of course. How long will that period last? It's not complicated. It works. 2006, 2005, it will last two years. And will you be rejected by refusals?

It happens.

Completely.

Yes. Completely. Is there a signal, at some point, are you aware that the police are investigating you, without knowing that it's you, but do you have information?

So.

Or do you know that the case is being closed? First, I know that the case is being closed. Then I know that the information is given to the whole of Berzinga. I know that the police are on alert. Why? Even in Israel? Even in Israel.

Did they know how to locate Israel or not at all? They had located it, of course. After a while, they had located it. You will understand why. Because of Chorley. Because she... The girl you sent to get money? Yes, you got it all. She has a number... a physical number, I mean, on her wall, you know,

the old phones that you plugged in like that. Yeah, the home phone, fixed phone. Exactly, or she had called friends, etc. that she had explained to them. But that's not it. Where it fell, you'll understand. Well, I know the police are on alert.

Really. I want to tell you, every 5 minutes, it's a hit everywhere. Something's happening. And we're not talking about small sums. Except that one night, Shirley goes to France. She goes to a club. And she's invited by a friend of hers.

But this friend also invites a couple. They're in a club, etc. And then she says to her friend, you know, fuck, it's going to be loud, what Gilbert is doing,

well, you know, the presidents and everything. Except that the guy, the couple next door, who is friends with this girl, is part of the financial team. And he hears.

He says nothing. Except that the next day he says, to put Shirley on the list. And that hears it. He says nothing. Except that the next day he says, to put Shirley on listen. And that's it. And that's it. She gets caught at her house at 6 in the morning. Where did she live? In France?

She lived on Avenue Victor Hugo. So she was a French woman? Yes, she was going back and forth. She went to prison? She went for two months. In the documentary, I know you're talking about it. I'll explain how the police find me.

It's a true story, the documentary tells you everything. Of course, of course. I'll explain how they find me. Because it's incredible. When they arrest her, you have to know that I had a relationship with this girl.

We were a little in love, we were laughing, well, anyway. he sees a kind of poster that makes the whole wall at home. And the guy, the financial team, says, but who is this one?

Well, don't worry about me, it's Gilbert. But he says it in the report, he says, well, how is it Gilbert? Well, it's Gilbert! And there he understands. She's 24 hours. She doesn't quote my name. But the police were very clever.

They prove to her that I have another wife, that I have a mistress, and that I'm going to fuck her up, etc. Well, you know women... Oh yeah, well, they fuck my face up. And they turn her around.

And they turn her around. And then she shits it all. So, it's over. They have my name, they have my first name, they have everything. It's over. It's over. And how will the arrest go? Because I think there is no agreement on extradition in Israel, no? There is no agreement, except for the first time in the history of Israel.

Because you have to know that I am the first to have been extradited. There was such a diplomatic incident, I mean, between Israel and France, that Israel had no choice but to give me. And so, once I knew who I was, etc., who came to Israel, I was summoned to the Financial Brigade with the French police, the judge of instruction, so I started to get to know all this stuff,

and I said, you know what, we're going to make a game. I'm going to play. I'm going to keep going. Since we're cooked, we might as well be cooked for something, you know? And so I kept on bombing. But now I'm going much further. We played a little bit of cat and mouse, I was stupid, I called, you know, at the made 8 million euros. But I don't believe you. Well, look, I made 8 million euros.

He says it, I think, in the report. You're kidding him?

I'm kidding him.

In fact, you're taking the bull by the horns at this point. You're saying, I'm untouchable.

Yeah, yeah.

And I don't know, I told you I had broken a cable. Really. I'm in a hair salon and the police interpoles me. I knew it wouldn't last. So you're in Israel? They come to pick you up. Yes, they come to pick me up, the police interpoles me, and they say, you're under arrest for the crimes of the Scrooge, etc.

They tell me, France is asking for an extradition, but me, in my head. It's impossible. Impossible! And then I went from judgment to judgment, and then I... You followed them quietly? No, I'm all violent. I have no problem. I made a mess, he asked me to come, I went, put me the handcuffs, let's go.

I have no problem with that.

Did you have children at the time? Yes, I had four. And one who was pregnant, by the way, we see it in the reportage, she was pregnant. And when I was incarcerated in Israel, well, she gave birth while I was incarcerated. What are Israeli prisons? How is it? It's very hard. You're going to talk about French prisons after, Ukraine, because you left Ukraine.

Israeli prisons are extremely hard, but ... Was it the hardest of the three? No, no, it's not physical, it's psychological. It's a bit like American prisons. It's similar to American prisons. What does that mean? It means that they are cells or grids.

So we see everything, everything is seen, everything is heard. It's a lot of espionage in Israel. It's a lot of espionage, even in prisons. There is a huge pressure, huge. You feel it, you feel it. That is to say that the prison watchers

are above all watchers, but they are part of the state, they give information. In short, it's just... You never know who you're talking to. You don't know who you're talking to. I'm going to tell you something. You know I haven't been in France for 7 or 8 years. Yes, because I was in Israel, I was wanted,

I knew that I was going to be in prison. Well, imagine that when I came to Paris... But you were extradited, so you were a prisoner.

Yes, I was extradited.

How does the flight happen? How does an extradition flight happen? It's a plane with everyone. An Air France flight? Yes, an Air France flight. The inspectors were extremely nice to me, to be honest. They took my handcuffs off. In the plane?

Yes, in the plane. They told me, you're lying. And you had police officers? Yes, I had four police officers. Four police officers. They accompanied me in the plane, etc.

And so we ate, we laughed. They laughed a lot because they said, what a scam, it's crazy. Even we don't believe it, it's not possible. They weren't stressed because you weren't a violent, you were a scammer. Yes, yes, they knew I was a scammer, I wasn't a violent. You weren't a killer.

No, absolutely not. They knew, and they saw my lawyer's office, social security, they understood that I was a little crazy. Well, you know... Did you ask them to take care of the men? Did you tell them, guys, I'm going to... Yes, I told them to go to the bathroom. They told me, don't worry, we'll take them out, you can go to the bathroom. At the same time, I'm on the plane.

And they told me, you can eat quietly, don't worry. We have nothing against you. We ask you to come back, we'll take you. The Israelis put me in the plane, they sign a document, they are no longer responsible. Then France takes over. And so when you arrive on the tarmac, the plane lands, there are policemen waiting for you? There are policemen waiting for me, there are cars waiting for me, there is everyone waiting for me.

But here you are going to laugh. I put my foot on the tarmac, I have a smile you don't even know why. Because you have to understand that I love France. I'm a real Parisian. I love Paris. And then I finally say to myself, Paris. Even if I go home, I swear to you.

Because it's not Paris you're going to see. It's not serious. It's health. I'm in France. Paris. What a wonder! And I know I don't want to stay half a year, and I think to myself, maybe it's better like this.

You're almost relieved? Yes, I'm relieved.

I say, let's go.

Your children, you don't talk about your children, but it's... My wife. Does it bother you to say you don't want to see them? Yes, I don't like it because when I mix my life with my children. I don't feel good afterwards. Because I feel so responsible for a multitude of things that happened.

Not having seen them, not having let them go, a lot of things. It's also... A part of regret. A part of regret and the misfortune of everything that happened. We have to remind it, because it's not that simple. When you take years in prison and your are at 4,000 km away,

and you don't see them, and there are a lot of things going on, you understand? Yes, because you're talking about the Wahoo side, but in reality there's the whole syntactic side. But there's the dark side. The dark side.

Obviously, that's why I say to some people, don't do that, because if you do that, the consequences that follow are destructive. I mean, you're destroyed, really. Don't think, Guillaume, that it's so easy to spend two years in prison. I'm explaining. Six months, one year, it's fine.

But when you do 12 rounds, 12 times 365 days, it's not the same limonade. And so you arrive on the tarmac. And I'm introduced directly to the judge. Except that in the meantime, I have all these inspectors who tried to catch me, who tried this and that, to put their hands on me, who are there. And I'm shocked, you'll understand why.

Because he tells me, wait Gilbert before you go to see the judge, you're going to go to our premises. And there I see in the premises something crazy. Where are you going? To the Financial Brigade of the military. I see peanuts, I see beers, I see stuff, stuff.

Do they welcome you well? Extremely well. He said, listen Gilbert. You're here for... They welcome you well? Extremely well. He says, listen Gilbert... He says, you see, we caught you, we know what you did, there's no secret, it's no longer a secret for the dogs,

we don't blame you. We are here to catch you. That being said, and I see everyone next to me, and I see everyone applauding, bravo. What's going on? He says to me, because even we couldn't have imagined

that such a thing could happen. We've never seen that in our life. Because finally, you took the phone, you pretended to be Charles Pierre, and we don't care. And you managed to do that. And the guy questions you,

asks you questions to understand everything. I want to tell you, they already have all the answers. Because it's factual, that is, the transfers have gone well. He understands that it's me, so there are no more secrets.

And then, I recognize the case. I recognize the case. First of all, the scam to the president. Because then we'll come back to the scam to the minister. First of all, we're sure of the scam to the president. This judge, madam... I don't know if I can mention her name. It's official, anyway.

A judge.

Madam Judge Gagnard, Sylvie Gagnard, who was extremely strict, extremely hard, but strict. And I saw her... She's a judge who smokes every four seconds of the club. And at one point she cracked up, she said to me, Are you a smoker, Gilbert?

At the time I was a smoker.

I said, yes. Oh, well...

I don't mind. And I see that there is an atmosphere that is nice, in the end. You see what I mean? It's not meanness, it's not hatred. It's justice. And she says, I have a hair straightener, you can say what you want.

You understand you're a potato-ass? Maybe a little more than that. Maybe you're a carrot-ass. She says yes. And this sentence you'll see again in the movies, that I came up with, you know, I should understand that I'm not the only one to blame.

When I say I'm not the only one to blame, I also have accomplices. Because she said, but who are your accomplices? I said, those who made the transfers and those who answered the phone. They are the victims and the accomplices without the X-ray. Yes, I wanted to tell you, yes. She said, but you're right.

I said, you're right. I said, of course. She said, we won't inculpate them. They won't be missing, Judge. I said, of course. So I went to jail for health reasons. Health reasons? That's the VIP district where Bernard Tapie and Nicolas Hercuzio were.

And that's the first time I go to jail, I see serious things. I see that everyone is nice to me. The detainees, the supervisors, the director, Mr. Edkal, who you will understand later, he was corrupted, everyone knows that,

because he was in prison for 9 months. And then I see, at the same time, that he brings me meat, and stuff. And I don't understand, Guillaume. Why? Because there is a case that has been publicized? Yes, it has been publicized. In fact, I didn't understand,

I mean, I will understand that this case will go around the world, is very publicized, but that he finds it magnificent. Because what does a surveyor tell me once? He tells me, you know, Gilbert, sometimes I want to make a loan, I'll explain. Well, I ask 200, 300 euros, I don't give them like that at the bank. And you, with a phone call, you managed to send 1 million and 2 million.

Well done, well done, my boy.

I only see that. And during those two years, I... Why are you only two years old?

So...

And how old are you? So, I'll explain.

I'm two years old...

You're not without judgment, are you? Yes. In fact, it's preventive. And in fact... Preventive is before judgment. It's before judgment. The investigation was not finished. In France, you have to be in prison for two years. And if there is no judgment? If there is no judgment, you are released.

That's why sometimes they rush to get there. Exactly. Why do they plan to... Because there were so many cases. The investigation was too long. Impossible.

So the result is that you are released after two years. I am released with a judicial control. Except that I have my son's bar mitzvah, the bar mitzvah is a communion that is in Israel. When he turns 13? At 13. He considered the passage... I go to the judge and say,

Sylvie Gaillard, give me permission to go back and forth, please, so that I can go to my son's bar mitzvah. And he says, no way. Normal. I don't have a passport, I don't have a paper, I have nothing. They took everything from me, I can't.

I called people and I said, is there a passport? Yes, there is a passport. So they gave me the passport. And I took a private plane because I could not... While you were in court. While I was in court and I was interrogated.

In court, if you make a stupid mistake, you going straight to jail. Until the judgment, for once.

Until the judgment.

So, you're playing.

And I'm still playing. But be careful.

And you're taking a private jet? Yes. When I take a private jet... You will never come back? And I will never come back. Why? Because the moment I took this plane, or that Israel gives the information to the French justice, I was immediately put under an international arrest warrant. Interpol, Interpolice, International Police.

Interpol.

So, now that I myself in Israel. You have to understand that if I had respected my judicial control, and I had waited for my judgment, I would never have taken 7 years. I would have taken 4 years, 3 years.

It cost me dearly.

And now you're going to take 7 years away? And now I'm going to take 7 years, what they call by consumption, that is, in my absence. So you're going to be 7 years away? And I'm going to be 7 years away, what they call in Humas, meaning in my absence. And I didn't want to appeal. Why didn't I want to appeal? Because behind this mess was the Drian case,

and I knew they were going to take a lot of money. So you're thinking about this new case in prison? Yes. Because you're going to get bigger, The scams are going to be bigger. It's going to be meaner. I know it's going to be serious. And I also know it's going to be a delay bomb. Because I know what I'm going to do in advance.

So I arrive in Israel, obviously. And I call a friend and I ask him... Before I tell you this, you have to understand how I got this idea in prison. It's extremely important. You're not used to telling stories. It's the first time he's telling it in a long interview.

I've never told it, Guillaume. Never. What I'm telling you now, no one knows. So, about the numbers, I know there will be comments, so I ask you the question. All the numbers end with 72,000.

Okay.

Do you take this number because you had so much to do to not make a mistake? No. Or is it you who asked for... I wanted to ask you the question earlier. No, I do it on purpose. Why? Why? Because when I talk about 972, I know what I'm talking about,

and I know that I won't be reproached for anything else, on another amount, because if I'm offered another amount, I know that it doesn't fit in the framework of everything I've just said. You understand. So as not to get caught up in other things. Exactly.

Very clear. Exactly. It's very technical. Thank you for raising it. Congratulations for raising it. And congratulations for your friendship. Yes, yes, of course. With immense pleasure. I'll put it like that. I'm in prison and I watch a lot of the news.

I watch a lot of the news. And I realize that on some platforms there is an impossible hypocrisy concerning budgets, money, etc. And there is always a person who comes back in advance, it's Jean-Yves Le Drian. At the time, anyway.

Yes, that's right. He was the Minister of Defense. Exactly. Minister of the Army, basically. And I hear a lot of articles, a lot of discussions, that say this.

Yes, the President president poured wine in the tank, yes, the president gave money to the Navy, yes, he prepared the presidential campaign, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. And I said to myself, if I were a minister, what could I do?

And then an idea comes to my mind. It's quite funny, because you look at how things are sometimes made. Two days later, guess what they put on TV as a movie? Fantomas. Fantomas. With Louis Thunes. Fantomas was a movie where the villain was Fantomas. Fantomas. With Louis de Funès.

Fantomas was a film where the villain was Fantomas, and there was Louis de Funès. But it wasn't him, it wasn't Louis de Funès. And there was a man who was a little bit purple, for those who haven't seen it, I'll put the picture up, but if you listen to us on podcast audio,

thank you for being the legend of the first podcast in France, It was Amazon Podcast, you can listen to us on all platforms. He had a round, warm face, no hair at all, including on the eyebrows, and he was a little purple. Exactly. And he could transform into whoever he wanted. And I look at that and I say, but wait, but there it is! But there it is! It's Fantomas who gives you the idea.

That's it, who gives me the idea of the mask. I said to myself, wait, does it exist? Is it possible? Is it not possible? But the idea already, it's in my head. It's already there. Yes, it's already there. And then I go into my thoughts. I say, wait, imagine I'm doing an office, real flags, real objects, I'm a real minister.

But it's the mask. But yes, it's that. And that, with what I already know, and how to interpret it, I say, it's bingo at every blow. You say, I'm going to pretend to be the French Minister of Defence. In prison, I find out who is French Minister of Defence. In prison, I was informed who the Minister of Defence was,

what he did, how he spoke, how he pronounced himself. Why? Because, I have to tell you, Guillaume, in prison I had a telephone. You can say that. So I had a telephone, I had internet, obviously.

And if I had internet, well...

I was already doing my research. Were there a lot of phones in prison? A lot. So, listen, it's no longer a secret, I'm telling you. If there are 3,000 detainees in a building, you have not 3,000, but 4,000 phones.

Things are clear.

We're not going to... And how it comes, I'm telling you, it's not the supervisors who let them in, it's not the lawyers, it's totally false. It comes from the drones, it comes from everywhere. I'm telling you, it's no longer a secret. That's how things are said. And so I take the plane.

I take the plane for Israel, of course. And I know that at this moment something is going to happen, because I'm going to go deep, I'm going to find out, I'm going to do something. And so, there, I see a friend and I say, listen, how does it work for the, eventually, masks? He says, listen, I know one or two, I'm making a horrible attempt.

To make them manufacture?

To make them manufacture.

It's expensive, masks. It costs between 7 and 12,000 euros. Even at the time, I don't know if you remember, there was a show called Les Guignols de l'Info. So there were no masks to put on because it was very big, but it cost a fortune. It costs between 12 and 15,000 euros.

But you'll understand what happened. In fact, I'm in Israel and I see... Obviously, by definition, those who are a little... To make masks. To make masks, etc. And I understand very quickly that something needs to be able to move, so I understand that you need silicone. And there is none.

I was given two masks, it's a horror. It cost me, I think, 5,000 francs, trash.

You try, you try, it doesn't work.

I know it doesn't work. Where did you get them made? I'll tell you. One day I was called and told that there was a country that was extremely pro-Israel. Where did you get the ones that failed? In Israel. Ah, it was in Israel.

It was in Israel, zero waste, we don't talk about it. And I was told, you know, the Hollywood movies, Spielberg, etc. I know who makes these masks. But no. He says yes. But if I tell you the place, it's hard. In fact, they are made in Iran. They are very strong for masks. They are very, very strong.

What do I do? I call a friend. I tell him, listen, we can't call Israel because I don't know how it works. I don't know anything about it. And Israel and Iran are not... At the time, it should be soon, they should be very good friends.

I wish, I wish. It's complicated that there is an Israeli passport to go to Iran. I can't, but you'll understand. So I send friends to Iran, from France. Except that this person who is in Iran, I am in a relationship with him because I know the finishes, etc. So I'm in a relationship, I person in Iran, because I know the finishing touches, etc.

So I'm in a relationship with him, I'm talking to him on video. And then you'll understand what's going on. He was speaking a bit of broken French, the guy. Because there are a lot of people in Iran who speak French, you have to know that. And then he tells me something, and it gives me a bit of a hangover. He tells me, you know Gilbert? Because he knew what my name was. He said to me, I'll do this for you. He said, but be careful.

You must not mention my name because in Iran, I will be executed immediately.

Why? Do you know why, Guillaume?

No. Because I have the Israeli passport. And they can imagine that it's espionage and everything that goes with it. And I understand the importance of these people. So obviously his name will never be named, neither now, nor ever, nor in the past.

In short.

There is a series on Canal+, it's not at all the sponsor of the show, but when it's good, you have to say it, it's called Teheran, a series, it's about Israeli and Iranian secret services, and so, in particular, a part in Iran of the secret services. So it's quite interesting to understand, if you like the subject, if there is a spy, they immediately execute him. On both sides.

They hang him. They film him on TV. Immediately. And so the guy shakes a little, but he feels good. And I tell him,

don't worry, you have my word that your name will never be mentioned. You should know that in Iran, there are a lot of people who wear masks for the cinema. A lot. But it's expensive. You'll understand why. So I send people to Tehran,

to a meeting in a village I won't mention. They do a first try. I said, it's not possible. It's a marvel. A marvel. A marvel. Except I have to try it.

I have to try it.

People wear the mask, and I'll tell you, I think it costs me 25,000 euros. Approximately, 25,000 euros. That's not a lot. But that's not the thing, you'll understand. It's a car, right?

Yeah.

The mask, it takes off in Turkey, and in Turkey it arrives in Israel. Okay? That is, there are people who are in Iran, who bring it back to Turkey, in Turkey, they take off again to bring it back to Israel. It's to tell you, the mask, it's a long story. Except that when I try it, it's a bit too tight on me.

And so I can't get any articulations. I'm in deep shit. I call the person in question back. I say, listen, it's beautiful. Because it is beautiful. But it's not possible.

After 30 seconds I suffocate. And I had a... You know, it was tightening me at the throat level. You wanted to vomit? And that's it, it was not possible. He tells me, Gilbert, what do we do? I say, well, we do another one, but you do it to me in a very small size

and I take the measurements and everything that goes with it and it costs me another 25,000 euros. Because he is not responsible, of course. I'm the one giving him the information. Sir, sir, sir. But it costs me 15,000 euros because it costs them a lot. And then, I try it on. I put on a suit, with the tie, I put on the mask. Do you take pictures with that?

Yes, two or three times that I deleted, for security reasons, because I didn't know they were going to report me. We have a screenshot of a picture of you. Yes, with the mask. I'll put it on the screen so you can see it. What is this picture exactly? It's Jean-Yves Le Drian.

No, but you're the one who's doing the screenshot. No, no, no, it's a client who photographed during my call a secretary of a president who photographed... I'll explain why. The information was transmitted. The mask was never found. But you'll understand what happened.

And so the mask arrives and there, it's a marvel. I put on the suit, I put on the tie. I call a friend and I say, come see me and you tell me right away, you have a fraction of a second to tell me who is in front of you. He says, yes, I'm coming. He comes.

Oh, he does that. It's not possible, he's the Minister of Defense. I understand that it's 100% successful. Except that's not enough. I rent an apartment and in this apartment I make a kind of big room

in which I put the office of Mr. Le Drian, I took a picture of it, and I made the same as the Elysee, the office of Mr. Le Drian. And so, where do I go? It's not the Elysee, it's in Abrienne. Yes, in Abrienne, or in Marivaux, I don't know.

Anyway, I take his office because it's on the internet. And so I go to the flea markets. What a pain. I have to find the same table. We find the same table, you know, Louis XVI, Louis XV.

We go there.

The beautiful offices, the French flags. But especially his phone. So what a pain. But what a pain, you know, it's the old ones. And I find one. And I take it, I put it.

In a week, I find myself in a real ministerial office, and in particular that of Jean-Yves Le Drian, the Minister of Defense. So who do you call to start? So, here we are. We put up the flags. First, I do tests, of course, because it was all at the beginning.

So we put up Skype with the camera system, because you know that the more there is hindsight, the more we don't know if it's art or bullshit, or if it's possible, because articulation is extremely difficult. Yeah, it shouldn't be too detailed. What year did you start doing the Dreyen? So, I'm going back to 2009, we're in 2012?

12?

You met him, Jean-Yves Le Dreyen, at the press? No, but I met him through the media, and he was a bit angry. Because he said, Gilbert Chikli did well, he did very well, but what do you want? It's like that. So he still responded to what had happened. But I understand him,

I understand him. And so, that's it, Eudrian has just been born. A rebirth for Mr. Chikli. And who do you call first? It's not the contact contacts, it's not just the financial director of a bank.

Absolutely. So, for once, I'm calling the presidents. Weren't you afraid of being killed? Of being found by a secret service? Yes, but we'll come back to secret services. If you want, in 10 minutes you'll understand what I mean. Because there are things you shouldn't play with, and now we're getting into areas...

Yes, except that, since we're talking about secret services, I'd like to come back a little later, because that, for once, that bothered me a little, for once. But we'll come back to that. And so, I introduce myself, I make my office, etc. And now, I no longer attack the bank director, I no longer attack all that,

I attack directly the Presidency of large companies. That is to say, when I call a president, directly to the presidency of the big companies. That is to say, when I call a president, well, a president of a company, we're talking about, we agree, well, I pretend I'm Jean-Yves Le Drian. You saw in the report, I'm attacking Hermès, the big companies.

So, you may ask me the question, but why always these French companies? companies. Because I speak French. If I spoke English, I would have travelled the world. But I only speak French. For this reason, I did it in Monaco, Luxembourg, Belgium. Everything that speaks French, I did it in my language.

So, yes, I did it in Belgium, Luxembourg, Monaco and France, but I was only talking to the president of big companies. And then I pretended to be the minister, and in a few words, what was I saying to him? I said, listen, Mr. President, first of all, there is a secretary who called the president saying, there is a minister who would like to talk to you in private, it is extremely important, if you could put yourself on FaceTime, it's extremely important.

Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, because a minister who calls, it's not everyday, but it works. 50-50, it works. And when I put on a mask, etc., right away, at that moment, the minister disrespects me. And then I understand that it works. Right away, at that moment, Mr. Minister, my respects.

And then I understand that it's going to pass.

And then I send the money.

What is the money? The money is very simple. It's always the same system of ransom, of stuff, of whores and everything you want. Except that here, I listened to it again, France does not pay for ransom officially. It still pays it officially, since you have a structure that has been advised to us. Once again, France does not pay officially for Rensan, it still does, because you have a structure that has been advised to us.

And I understand that some large groups have a lot of relations with politicians. Why? Ah yes, but I know a man, Mr. Minister. Yes, I know. I tell him. So things are clear. I know Mr. Athel, you know, he was holding this post,

don't worry, if I call you, it's not for nothing. Oh, what a wonder! He just gave me my question to the answer to the answer. You gave him a grain of sand. He gave me grain of sand. Let's go, let's go.

And of course, we will reimburse you in another form, the one you are used to receiving your funds. And what does he tell me? And that for most. But how do you know, Mr. Minister, please? We know that you don't have a bank account in France. Yes, I recognize it. But don't worry, nothing will happen.

We need these platforms. All these structures that have paid, have never paid for France. They have always paid for non-declared offshore companies. I say this because it's important. Why? Because in the trial, I didn't have... ... ... ... ...

... ... ... ... ... ... ... We don't see it, because when you get 2, 3 or 4 million euros, you have to justify the money you sent. How did you send them? How? And now we all know that it was offshore structures where 99% of the money was black, when it was arranged.

You understand what I mean? And paying for structures... I don't know, maybe I'll give you a stupid example. If you buy a tractor, it's worth 50,000 euros, I'll give you 20,000 and 30,000 afterwards. That way I don't have to pay taxes, for example. So, that's what happened and that's what really helped me. Are the sums bigger than you asked?

I took 20 million. I took 15 million. Still on the Hong Kong accounts? Yes. Oh no, there was Tiani, Estonia, Luxembourg. Once we got to Luxembourg, we got to Luxembourg. In fact, these are accounts that are, you know, a grey list, you know, tax havens and all the Cayman Islands and everything that follows. But I want to tell you, they are used to making these transfers.

What transfers? Well, the big structures I'm talking about, are used to making transfers in these countries, in the Cayman Islands. Why? Because when you ask a bank to make a transfer of 5 million, to a country like the Cayman Islands,

normally the bank is supposed to block, as you say so well, because it's not usual. And if they do it, it's because it happens often. In any case, it's because it's not well controlled. In any case, it's because it's not well controlled, but also because the banks... Yes.

Maybe even with some presidents, I don't know, I say it like that, but in any case, it works. And if it works, why not take advantage of it? I just wanted to come back, I forgot about Antonio, and then we'll come back to Jean-Yves Le Drian, if you don't mind. Of course. You talked about the trial of something, and as you never explained it,

there is a story that didn't go all the way, and you said, You voluntarily stopped a scam at some point, before you were arrested for the first time. So it's not about Jean-Yves Le Drian, it was when you were passing by. For the scam against the president. In fact, I had a manager, from a big group. And before I was fired, she gave me an information,

and I'll tell you which one it was. She told me, you know, she felt, but not felt, but she was doing the transfer, it was over. And she said to me, you know, Sir, I'm going to make the transfer, but know that I have a disabled daughter, and that if I lose this job,

I won't be able to feed her, I won't be able to meet the needs of this little one. And then, on the phone, I stayed for 2-3 seconds, you know, for the white run. I said, very well, open wide your ears. She said, yes. I said, don't ever answer a call like that again.

She said, what's going on? I said, because it's a scam. It's fake, it's a hoax. Don't ever dive in there again. Oh, she said, my God, how is that possible? I was going to hang up. You don't tell anyone.

And it stays there. Boom, it's hung up. Except that this very person came to the trial. I didn't expect it. And there, the judge asks him to come and express himself.

He says, but this gentleman there, we're talking about 4,800,000 euros. Was she a bank manager? Yes. We're talking about 4 million... An agency director, so not necessarily a lot of money. We hear bank director, we say to ourselves, it's a lot of money. No, no, she's not a bank director, she's a director of a large group. So she has money, anyway?

It's not her, it's her group. It's her group. Yes, but a director, already... Yes, but I know the way lemonade. And so this person, this same person, comes to court, to the trial, and she says, but he avoided paying me 4,800,000 euros. She explains the story to him, the lady.

And the judge, she looks at me, and I see that she is not so mean with me. Why? Because she gives me a wink. The judge? Yes, she does that to me. She seems to say, well done. It was a good kid. Now, you have to know, Guillaume, I wasn't judged by the justice.

I was judged by politics. And that, you have to understand. Because, yes, you're talking about Jean-Yves Le Drian. Yes. You just say, we haven't talked about it, but before you get arrested, you live the big life. Yes.

We said it quickly, you're going to rent a suite in Monaco. You say that you have won 2 times the Eurobillion, 400 million, we talk about 400 million, then you talk about the figures you have, but you gave official figures. Yes, of course. What is this suite? So, it's a suite called at the time Napoleon.

In which hotel? Paris. It was just the one in front of the casino in Monaco. And in fact, I made the mistake, because they found the card numbers of my account, obviously, they realized that I stayed for three months, for 40 or 45,000 euros, I think, in the room, or 30,000 euros. At night? Yes, at night, of course. So you realize, of course, I was, for once, better than the minister.

I thought I was a prince from I don't know where. And yes, you have to go to the little care and everything that goes, and then the casino opposite. In short, it was a carnage. Did you play with princes at the casino? Yes, of course.

I played with a lot too. What country is it? Saudi Arabia? Saudi Arabia. And how did you lose... Well, actually... I had no luck with him. Because when I asked for tokens, I asked for a million or two million euros, he gave me a pencil and gave me 20.

So obviously, at one point I told him, stop. What did you play? Poukou Pankouandco, head to head, and I told him, in the back room, and I told him, you know, when I lose this money, if I don't have any more, I'll have to do my job again. You, you're just the oil that flows. He had a laugh, he didn't understand, but he had a laugh.

Well, at one point I stopped. And all of this was taken up by the directors to the financial team. You said you bought a yacht, that we understand the extent of what you had. Yes, I bought a yacht. A yacht that was sold at auction.

Yes.

How much? Why? Is it on the internet? No, no, no, precisely.

Okay, 18 million euros.

It was resold. The yacht?

Yes.

The second one I bought. You were already living a private life. You really lived a life that was not worth the candle. You'll say it later, we'll come back. Yes, I lived a life... You didn't see your children anymore. That's it.

Yes, that's the after.

That's it.

That's the after.

You're going to throw away 1,600,000 dollars. What a horror. You're on your yacht, it's to end on the big life before coming back to Jean-Yves Le Drian. So that we understand why you wanted to go back. It's an important part of the character's development. You're going to throw 1.6 million dollars into liquid, overboard. Why?

So, we have to go to Cyprus. I'm with the yacht, and we're heading to Cyprus. So, Port of Ajdod, Israel, Cyprus. It's 6 hours of navigation. I was travelling a lot by boat, and then I took the plane because everything was prepared, etc.

I had the private one. And in the distance, we see a kind of big boat that comes to all of Berzynk. But when I say to you, to all of Berzynk, and I say that to my friends, there are two solutions. Either it's the customs police, or it's the army, etc.

But they come for us. They come for us, it's a certainty. And there, we have a million, and my friends say, what are we doing? I say, I don't know, we do, we throw,

we don't throw, we throw, and the closer the boat gets, this bastard, he gets closer, but then, you know, towards us, I mean, there's no doubt, it's us. And there, I said, guys, put some weight in the bag, let's go, we're throwing. But bam, we're throwing. And bam, we're throwing a million sixes, because we thought they were going to come and search the boat and everything that follows.

Except that the bastard and the boat, he comes, yes, you're right know what to do anymore. Wait, my friend says he's going to dive, he puts on a rotten mask with his thing, I don't know how many meters below, he does that, impossible, he goes back up. We've got the GPS point, you know, a little GPS point to come back. Some people left, they told me, but it's impossible, it's impossible. So, by the way, I invite you to you the exact number, but you know that in the sea there are a million of them. I don't know in what state they are now, but I think they are in a bad state.

So we had to throw them away and we never found them again. I had a hard time with that. But when I tell you that there is a whole Berzinga next to us, I say, no, it's not possible. Were you wanted in Israel when you left? You had fled France. So you didn't go back to your country. In Israel I didn't go back. Why? Because from the moment France releases you for a case, they can't recruit you for the same case. So the DRIAN doesn't exist at that time.

So if they released me, they think that it's good for them. Now they do what they want. So I went there. You were extradited twice. They can't extradite me twice. For the same case, exactly. And so Jean-Yves Le Drian will talk about the secret services of the States. You will start, you will see Erdogan in a visual way.

In a visual way. I see you as I see you. Don't you think it's going too far? Don't you think it's going to fall back on me? Because there are secret services in some countries, maybe those, by the way. And precisely, we will talk about it. They are very dangerous. They could find you. And they found me.

Some secret services found me. And you will understand in what situation and especially in what purpose. Guillaume, I did not speak only to Mr. Erdogan. I spoke to several presidents. Like who, for example? Officially.

There are three presidents I could not say. Officially, for example? Officially? There are three presidents I can't say. Officially, what has fallen in the media, because they have filed a complaint, is Erdogan, for once, who is called Makisal,

president of Senegal at the time, who is very nice, I want to tell you. And President Elchenko, who was in Poland, you know, right next to Russia. Bylarussi?

Bylarussi. He was a big, strong man, very nice too. And I had trained a person who spoke English, and I was there, and she was translating in English, except that was there, speaking and translating in English, except that she was in the background, she didn't show her face, of course.

And vice versa for Mr. Erdogan. And what does Mr. Erdogan do? Very clever, very clever. While I'm talking to him, as a minister, because here, we have to... He takes you because visually you are the minister.

I am the minister. And he tells me, Mr. Minister, how are you? It's OK, and you? Anyway, let's go. Except that there was a second, maybe after 10 minutes of discussion, me and him, he tells me, there's a problem. He tells me, there's a problem.

I say, what's the problem? Well, I'm the minister. He's not the minister, Mr. Le Drian. He is not the minister. Ah, really? And why is that? Because I just had Mr. Emmanuel Macron, President of the French Republic, who just confirmed to us that you are not the Minister of Defense. No. Fuck, you're back there, and what are you saying?

And I said, well, listen, we must have made a character mistake, I don't know, I'm not the minister, I'm not the minister, and that's all. You're just making fun of him. Yes, just for fun. But he understands that it's not for fun. Why? Do you know why? No. Because I call him on his phone number. And not everyone calls on their phone number. Private. What we call a red number. Because there are numbers, you know,

at the presidential level, emergency numbers, normal numbers, green numbers, blue numbers, in short. I learned that as I spoke to some presidents. So I called him on his line. After the call? No, no, while I was talking, before the call,

I called him on his line. Mr. Minister, I have an extremely important information to give you. When you say extremely important, I guarantee you, especially coming from France, in two seconds you're in facetime with him. Like Mr. Makiçal. But so, how did it happen, Cardogan?

Well, it ended up that we cut short. But him, I know him. Because she translates it and she says, how did he get my number?

What does he think?

That it's a secret service from another country? He thinks it's a secret service from another country. So he's going to put his secret services on you? He puts his secret services on me. And it's not the same limonade. Well yes, but that's not what... You haven't asked yourself the question before? Yes, but I'll explain how I'm used to it, how I'm touched.

Macky Sall is a president that I liked a lot. We talked a lot as presidents, but I learned a lot from him. I learned how to work and the channels in parallel. The channels in parallel are a service in parallel between president, minister and everything else. And the flows go through this channel.

That is to say, it is not official. Everything is official. And I take advantage of that, of course. And in the discussion, I tell him, Listen, we need 4 million euros. Don't worry, I'll give you... Because I understand now.

I'll make it go through as usual. Don't worry, I'll make it go away as usual. Don't worry, Jean-Yves. When he says Jean-Yves, I'll kill you. I know who will kill you. And so he makes the 4 million transfer. I've never seen such a transfer, Guillaume. What do you mean?

So, these are transfers, listen carefully, transfers of state without supervision. That is to say, they are transfers that go through the whole world without anyone being able to speak. And I realize that in the transfer

there is a kind of code that is like letting it go. You don't ask questions, you just get a point. That's all. Does he think it's a hostage story? I had put that in front of him,

but I had also put an elaboration that I had seen in the newspapers in the past that had to be done between them, and I had also put it forward. So it's a kind of account that we gave to a Swiss person who didn't worry, I managed everything. But it's going extremely well. You had made up a not clear story. Yes.

So it's a hostage thing, what does it start with? At the beginning, yes, because he told me about it. What do you think of this? Well, precisely, we also need funds via platforms, via cryptocurrency. In the State, it's nothing, 4 million euros.

No, but it's after.

It's after. That is, he can make you a transfer. He makes you a transfer a fraction of a second. That is to say, for you to understand, he has a person next to him, I think they have a tablet. Here, you give me 4 million. Boom, he makes 4 million. With a passcode. And that, it has helped me a lot.

For the other presidents. So your biggest move with the Drian, with the fake Drian, here we can see that it's a mask, you see what I mean? Yes, but be careful. You look at the picture. They do it because they took a picture on a screen. When you see it in reality, it doesn't look the same.

It doesn't look the same. That is to say that if I call you now on video with this mask, it's not the same thing at all. And you can see, you saw the flags, the office, the thing, not bad. So what's the big shot? How are you going to define it? Aga Khan. Who is Aga Khan?

The prince Aga Khan. The prince Aga Khan is the spiritual father of all Ishmaelites in the world. And he is a prince. So which country is he from? I want to tell you, I never knew which country he was from. If you could tell me, it would be nice.

So what is Ismailian? Ismailian, so it's the descendant of Ismail, I suppose. So Ismailian, I would like to be told, really, I never got interested in that. So, for once, I talked a lot with him, an extremely nice man. We talked, he told me about his life,

I told him about mine, as a minister, of course. Although I had up a story, but it was nice. And I think it was more than 20 million euros. How long? I think it was done in three days.

Yeah, in three days.

And what do you do with all that money? Do you continue to have the big life? Disaster, disaster, the big life, the flame. I can say it now because I divorced, women... A horror. When I say a horror, it means that you don't enjoy it anymore. You don't have fun anymore.

You know why? Because it's normal. You go to the big restaurants, sometimes I wanted to go to the McDonald's. So much that... I'm fed up. When I was in a restaurant, sometimes I wanted to go to a McDonald's. So much that... I'm fed up.

The yacht is only 5 minutes away, but when you buy a yacht, you laugh, when you sell it, you cry.

Because it's not the same price at all, it's 50% cheaper.

And then...

You want to find a quality of life, real. You, your family, your children. You can't do it anymore. A serenity, you mean? A serenity, yes. And that's because all those important sums... Always be careful. And then, security. I lived with four bodyguards 24 hours a day in my villa,

which you know, because it's on the net. Well, on Netflix. And it's... It's pressing, it's oppressive. Were you afraid for your life? I was shot at. How? They came and shot me with all the stuff

because I didn't want to work with a certain mafia team in Israel. I refused because I didn't need two, and I didn't know them, and three, it's not my domain, it's not my world. So they shot me, and from there I take security non-stop, even in the car, it was tiring.

In fact, I was the gold digger. You made a lot of cash, you say, you must have some at home. Yes, except that it was in accounts where they found some. And they used it because they took a lot of money from me. But it's okay, I'm a good player, it's normal. Today I have, I'm telling you, another life.

And for those who want to know, because I think they'll ask me the question, no, it's not a big deal, they really took everything from me. I mean, I don't have any money anymore, but it wasn't beyond that. For your children, did it scare you? A lot. You had two. A lot.

A lot, because I knew that if we couldn't attack me, we could attack the children. I'm talking about kidnapping, you got me. And they also had security, so you can see that in the end it was more pleasant. It's not a life anymore. No, it's not a life anymore. No, it's not... It's the life you dreamed of, of being a mafia, and in the end you say to yourself...

I want to tell you... It's Tony Montana, but Tony Montana... Yeah, I know, but we saw how he ended up. It rarely ends well.

It rarely ends well and...

We had big-time ones here. Sometimes it's a good life for 3 years, and then it's 10 decathomb. We've had 28 years here. I've done 12, not bad for financial matters. Lots, I specify. Because I took 17 years in prison. And that was the reverse of the medal.

That is to say, it was a disaster. Jean-Yves Le Drian, did you make other masks, that you may have used less, but did you try to make other people? Yes. Actually, I'll tell you. When we were caught in Ukraine... Ah yes, we'll get there.

It was precisely to make... Other masks? The Prince of Monaco. They had the mask. They had it in their hands. But it wasn't in Iran, so you found other suppliers?

I found other suppliers. Why didn't you go to Iran, as usual? Because I didn't want to put them in danger. It was tough. At a certain time, and then it started to make noise, I didn't want to put them in danger.

So we...

Before talking about Ukraine and your arrest and the period in prison in Ukraine which is quite surprising, how long will you continue after this billionaire, this prince? There were many. There were many. There were amounts, not 30, 40, there were 3, 4, 5, 8, 9.

I say it right away because I was reproached for it in court. Mr. Kirak is a very rich Turk of 80 million euros that were exported. In the same way that I did it. I say it very honestly, I have nothing to do with it. Why?

Because in fact, there are a lot of people who did exactly the same thing as me by taking this recipe and by applying it in a way... Who copied the scam. Who simply copied the scam.

And it multiplied. It was a gongren, that is, it happened in all the countries of the world. You have to hear it. Hence the 2 or 3 billion in damage. Because it multiplied.

They copied this recipe perfectly. Have you ever had diplomatic incidents? Have you ever triggered a diplomatic incident with a country because of your scam? France succeeded. You started a diplomatic incident with a country because of your scam. France and Russia. That's what allowed my arrest in Ukraine.

Tell us about the arrest. The arrest was by the SBU, the Ukrainian secret services. Look how far it goes. We know that Gilbert contacted Russia. Except that I don't know that there is an extremely important conflict between Ukraine and Russia. When I go to Ukraine, I don't think about that at all.

Except that Ukrainians think about something else. They say to themselves, Gilbert Shikly has information about Russia. Since we know that he pretends to be the minister, that he had documents, etc. And so I'm starting to have a customer. So you physically go to Ukraine? Physically.

To buy a mask, that's why you go? And to work there. What do you do while working? We had a set that was prepared for the prince of Monaco. Everything was ready. And why didn't you do it at home in Israel?

Because there it was't a European country, I had access to Ukraine, to be honest with you, which was much easier, on average, I mean, money, I want to tell you. So I felt protected.

But...

Because you were afraid in Israel to be... Yes, to be extradited again for another case. So when I go to Ukraine, I don longer deal with the people I'm used to dealing with. That I'm used to dealing with them. But here we are dealing with the secret service, so the SBU. They are the ones who stop me, it is the SBU and the services, the DGSI, I think, French.

And I think there was a third, I think it's Monegasque. Here we had the three services on my mind. The day of my arrest, you would realize that they put someone on the ground, they twist him in half, and I don't care. With respect, I mean, you get out of the car, we know who you are, you stay there, and the guys were all cagoules, so it came out of everywhere, I explain to you, all cagoules,

and I understand that it's a rather special service. You were taken by the Ukrainian secret service? Yes, I was taken to a very secret place, where my wife at the time had no news of me for five days. And that's when it gets worrying. That is, no lawyer, no jurisdiction, no my wife. And the Ukrainians did something very smart.

In fact, during these 5 days, they made me a lot of debates, I think they are strong, they understood that I had nothing to do with information or that I had not come to Ukraine for the sake of Russia or whatever. They understood. They understood that I was simply a scoundrel, a scum,

that I wanted to earn money, and that I had given them the mask in their hands so that they understood that I had come for that. In a way, I was incriminating myself, a new case, to get out of this espionage affair. Because the Ukrainians, at first,

they accuse me of espionage. You have to know that. It's not nothing. And so, they quickly realize that they have had a pressure from France that has been totally erroneous. The great commander of the Ukrainian secret service brigade

presented his excuses to me. He said to me, listen Gilbert, he speaks French, he said to me, we were mistaken, we were given bad information. If we had been told that you had been scammed with presidents and all that, we would have understood that you came to say thank you and goodbye. We would not have intervened.

They were extremely angry with the French law. Extremely. And you're going to jail there? Yes. I'm going to spend 10 days in custody. It's not nothing. I think I'll lose 10 kilos. Because, again, they want to come home and find out if it's really... And then I'm going to do three months.

Except that, over there, three months, if you... How would I say? You don't pay... The prison is followed by the mafia and not by the guards. There are no guards. It's the army, the mafia. That is, the army gives directives to the mafia to manage the whole prison. So as soon as you get there, it's either you want to live a black misery, or you want to live normally and comfortably.

And so you pay everyone. It goes up to the director, up to all the mafia teams. In short, everyone is paid. So you paid everyone? Everyone. Everyone. Me and my friend who got caught with me,

who was really a porter, the poor guy, they should have released him but they didn't, well, I think it cost us, if I remember correctly, more than 100,000 euros. That's it, more or less. Then, a lawyer comes to see me, and you're going to be very surprised, we're talking about my lawyer, the Ukrainian one,

who tells me, Gilbert, the Ukrainian law doesn't allow you to be released. But you have to give them 500,000 euros. He said, you give them 500,000 euros, you go to court, they release you. They release you. Listen to his words. Of course. I called my friends, they gave the 500,000 euros to the lawyer, who will give them to the lawyers.

And I passed the judgment. A request for release, that's every 24 hours. I explain to you. I arrive and for a while I don't understand anything at all. My lawyer says to me, you're free. You understand that if he says you're free,

in the next 15 minutes, I'll take a plane, I'm leaving. I'm taken off'm free, and in the next 15 minutes, I take a plane and I leave. I'm taken off the seat belts, and in court, I'm told, Mr. Chiclou, you're free. What a wonder! I go down the stairs of the court, and the police interpol me, you're under arrest.

I said, it's not possible, but that's not what's giving me a hard time. I had to do another 10 days of custody. Why? Because they made up another story to keep me for extradition in France. Look at this mess. In fact, what did they do? They took the 500,000.

That's what we call a 4-4-2. In fact, they took the 500,000, yes, they released me, and right after that they caught me. And so now you're going to be extradited? And now I'm going to be extradited to France after three months. What are the living conditions in Ukraine, when you pay for things? What do you manage to get exceptional to end up in France? It's not complicated. The jacuzzi we got in, the American fridge,

all that you have, I believe, in videos that were published, of meals outside, every night, every morning, every noon. That is, there were people, watchmen, who brought them food from outside, and every day, we ate, but we saw it too, with the side dishes. In short, you could have everything,

except freedom, because freedom was surrounded by... Isn't freedom better than a jacuzzi? I did everything for it, but it didn't work. But of course, but want to tell you... You know, Guillaume and I are a boy who adapts to any situation. And if you don't adapt, you're dead, you're cooked.

So we had to adapt. I'll tell you an anecdote from prison that shocked me. In Ukraine. Every morning I woke up and I saw two people with a nose that exploded. And when I say exploded, exploded. And I don't understand why. I went to see the team leader, the mafia leader,

I said, can you explain to me why every time I wake up in the morning, fuck, one time it's him, the other time it's the other. He said, it's not complicated. In the evening, they snore. I said, so? He said, well, all those who snore, they get a big stick on their nose. I said, are you serious?

He said, on the other hand, those who pay, I think it's a dollar a week, I don't know how much,

all those who pay, they can snore.

I said, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, how much does it cost? He said, look, since you're my friend, I'll give you 100. He gave him 100 dollars to leave us alone, just in case, if we sleep at night, he'll give us a big beating on the... That's Ukraine, that's Ukrainian prisons. Not to mention that sometimes we were like that at the window and we saw people in their underwear, you see.

That was non-stop in Ukraine. There's your photo, what is this photo? Is it a mugshot? Is it a police picture? This is a police picture from the first case of the president's robbery. How is this story going to end? Are they going to extradite you? One day they'll say, you're leaving and you're going to be sent back to France?

You're talking about Ukraine?

Yes.

I'm in Ukraine. I'm doing everything to not be extradited, to make things clear. And I did it the other way around. The judge was moving with the police of the highest jurisdiction. French? French. And I thought, the more he sees me suffering, the more he thinks, the more it will take time for me to be extradited.

As a punishment. Tell us everything and we'll bring you back to France. Except that I did the opposite. In truth, I was extremely happy there because I had everything. Except that there are some idiots who took pictures and published them, and the judges realized that I was living like a king,

even in prison in Ukraine. And so they asked for extradition very quickly. And you're going to be judged in 2017, I'm going to be judged in 2020. You've been a judge for more than three years. Three years before the trial. So it's two years max, right?

No, there was a ministerial authorization that took me one more year, it's very rare, but I got the right. What I'm saying today, everything I've told you, I've never said it in court, because you'll understand why. Because I kept silent. From the beginning to the end. And especially for a question that came up several times, about how I got those phone numbers to get... How do I say it?

Erdogan. Erdogan and all the rest.

All the politicians.

Yes. Well, I'll tell you. I'll tell you because it's so funny. I'll tell you, I'm the only one who knows. How did I get the phone numbers of all these presidents? I called the embassies. I pretended to be the minister.

The embassy of Senegal, let's say. I called the French embassy, who, the embassy of Senegal, I called the French embassy, who is in charge of Senegal, hello Mr. Minister, how are you Mr. Minister? Listen, we are trying to join Mr. Maikissa in an emergency, Mr. President, I need a number immediately,

don't waste time please. Here is your number. It's simple, it's stupid, but it's two... It's a scam with the numbers. Exactly. And so I contacted all the embassies in the same way, and I had the number of the entire presidency. So you see, you are now wondering, if I may address myself to everyone, well, gentlemen, ladies, for all these people who asked me these questions,

you see, today I answered this question, and you see, it's very simple. It's not that complicated. You just had to call the embassy, and ask for the minister's number, and ask for the number of the presidents of the world. I think you should be safe, because it's so childish that...

I want to tell you... They didn't even send it by mail, they didn't try it on an intra-Gouv. No, no, no. Live. Live. That's why. That's why I had all the numbers of some presidents of states. Are you going to continue to see your children during this... because you are going to be sentenced to how many years?

I'm going to be sentenced, at first instance, to 11 years. And I have to tell you. 11 years, we're talking about. 11 years, we I was warned. That is, it was not the jurisdiction that sentenced me. I'm saying this, really. It was the politicians who sentenced me,

only by humiliation, we have to admit that, only by exaggeration, only by everything that happened, and then the diplomatic conflicts because of me, we have to say that too. Sometimes it went went extremely far, it was very high too. And so I was sentenced by directive, maybe by Mr. Macron,

maybe by Mr. Jean-Yves Le Drian, but I understand him, I'm a good player. So I was sentenced to 11 years. Except that it did not escape you, Guillaume, that in court I keep silent and that there is no one. In the end, I am condemned and I am the only one to be condemned. There is no accomplice. They were very clever. And you will understand why. When I am condemned, at first, at 11 years old, it's a shock for me. I agree.

You were expecting it, weren't you? Yes, but... It's been years since Yes, but I thought I would take 5 or 6 and I would get out of it in a short time, because we're talking about a financial case. And we can say what we want, but we're also talking about a phone, even if it's exaggerated, but we're still talking about a phone.

My God. So, I'm convicted. Imagine that two weeks later, I was visited. I was visited. The police, the prosecutor, everyone came to see me. They said, listen Gilbert, we have a negotiation to do with you. I said, what is it?

They said, it's not complicated, you give me all the information, you give me the cashiers, the cashiers are the ones who take the money, who give the accounts, etc. For those who don't know, you give me the file-givers, the file-seekers, those who had the information, those who... Anyway, they wanted the whole...

The whole organization. Exactly, the whole organization. So I said, it's not complicated, how much did you take? I took 11 years. He said, we'll put you 5 in 3 months, you're out. I'm appealing, I'm telling you, it's not the jurisdiction that condemned me.

I said, no, I think we'll stop here.

First of all, I'm the only guilty one. And then I called, and we'll see.

He said, you'll regret it. They said maybe ten times. You'll regret it, you'll regret it. Do whatever you want. Thank you, goodbye, the incident is closed, bam, we don't talk about it anymore. A year later, I go very clever what they did.

They put me 10 years with 2 thirds of safety. It's like I took 20 years.

Why?

I mean, when you take 2 thirds of safety, you have to do 80% of your sentence. You can't ask for anything. You can't ask for a sentence arrangement. You can't ask for permission. You can't ask for a penalty, you can't ask for permission, you can't ask for a conditional. So it's 8 years, 80% of 10 years. 8 years flat.

I should have been released with a 10-year sentence for 3 and a half, 4 years, like everyone else. I'm a financier, I've been doing it for 4 years, thank you, goodbye. I'm going through a penalty,. Except there's a problem. When you put a person in a two-thirds safety, it's done for crimes, blood crimes,

barbarism, and everything that goes with it. It has nothing to do with it. It doesn't exist. And I was warned. And so I took 10 years with a two-thirds safety.

That's it. What do you regret in your career? and I was warned. So I took 10 years and 2 thirds of safety.

What do you regret in your career?

Because you took 2025, you got out, you had a year of electronic bracelet. Of course, I mean I just finished my sentence. But you just took it off a few days ago. So what do I remember from all this? I remember from all this that

OK, we can shine for a while, I remember all of that. I remember all of that, that...

OK, we can shine for a certain time, we can do everything for a certain time, but it doesn't last. You're always caught up. And yet I'm smart, Guillaume, I'm really smart. But you're always caught up, one way or another.

The difference with the police, I don't know which one, nobody told me that, Voyou told me, the difference with the police is that the police have time. Of course, and the means. And the means. And a horse is expensive, at some point you're going to make a mistake, and you'll get caught anyway.

And I'll give you a confession, for me the French police is one of the best in the world. We shouldn't forget that. We have to be honest. They're extremely intelligent people. That's all, except for the stupid ones.

So... I said we can shine for a while, but whatever happens, we'll get caught. For proof. But the consequences are consequences that matter. All this money you took so easily,

it goes away so easily. It's incredible. How do you say it? Money is hard to get, but you never take advantage of it. Exactly. I believe in it a lot.

Really. Because all this money left without me even being able to realize it. Whether it's in the flame, I played a lot, really, really a lot. So you have no notion of anything at all. Everything I had, we took it, it's gone, it's sold, it's...

But really, I'm sincere. That means that, in the end, I didn't benefit from anything, except that... Well, it cost me a divorce, it cost me... I'll go much further than that and you'll understand. It cost me not seeing my children for many years, not seeing my first wife give birth. But I'll go beyond all that, the health that can be generated in prison, and then the mental state, and then the psychology.

Because you don't come out normally, I'll explain. After 5 years and 1 day, you're not the same. Why after 5 years and 1 day? Because after 5 years and 1 day, your brain and psychological state don't think in the same way when you come back. That is, you took a hit, whether you like it or not. All those who say, everything is fine, it's wrong.

I have a lot of nightmares. A lot of key noises. I wake up a lot at night. In relation to the noise of the prison, you mean? You mean the keys?

The keys, the keys.

Clack, clack, clack, clack, clack.

A lot. The noises, the smell of the prison. It often happens to me, at 2am, I wake up in a hurry, I go for a walk outside to get up and breathe. These are things that, unfortunately, I think will never go away. Have you been locked up too much?

Oh yes, of course. You know, when you're 22 hours out of 24, for 5 years in a row, it's not nothing. Where were you in prison? I did Ville-Pinte. The initial sentence?

Yes, yes. Health at the start. Floriboragis, Mo,

Fren.

Why? Because I was considered a specially supervised detainee. Not for my dangerousness, excuse me, I can't even say the words, but because they thought I was very rich and that I could have planned an escape.

That means that when I was going to trial, I had a belt with a chain at my feet, at my hands, with the with all the gyrophares. That destabilizes the psychological state. I thought, I'm not... It's okay, it's a scrap shop, guys. But they saw much further. Then, I'm not talking about the people you lose while you're in prison.

That's very hard. Not to mourn. I lost my father and my sister. So, you say prison... When they say people are fine, it's wrong. It's wrong. These are things I'll never forgive myself for. When you have your father on the phone... I saw my father die on the phone, live.

And he says, I wish you were next to me. It's not worth the money.

You couldn't get out?

No, they refused. You made the request? Yeah. Pfff... That's not worth the money.

You couldn't get out? No, they refused.

Ah, you made the request?

Yeah.

They refused. But I understand that they refused everything.

I understand.

Because you had escaped... Yes, and they were right, because they gave me a chance and I succeeded. You wanted to have it, because... Of course, of course. Me rather than anyone else. So, I tell all these people, when they do something, think twice.

Because today it's not the pain of the time. You don't take 6 months, 4 months, 1 year or 2 years. Today you take years. But be careful. Be careful the years you will spend. I speak because, I'm being very honest with you Guillaume,

there are a lot of people who continue to do what I do, to be very honest. And I tell all these people, they are young, I tell them, to catch you, they will catch you. Because they have the time, they have the money, they have the information, and then in this environment, you have the balance, you have everything you need, so don't worry about that. However, the penalties will be exemplary. I know what I'm talking about.

And the prison will destroy you. It will destroy you. So, I'm telling you, if you have the intelligence to do that, you also have the intelligence to do something else. That's what I think. What bothers you the most in what you've done, humanly? With hindsight? Yes. To have put some people in chaos.

I'm talking about the bank director, the directors who lost their jobs. At the time, I didn't realize it, because we took the bait, but we didn't think about the collateral damage it could do. But of course, it did.

And I'm not proud of that.

To talk about the future, what's going to happen... There's a documentary on Netflix that you didn't participate in, called Le Masque, but you can see things like that. You say it's not exactly what happened when you watched it. Did you totally hang on? Totally.

First, I want to tell you, my voice is now known everywhere. And I'm 60 years old today, Guillaume. I don't have that freshness anymore, you know, the golden age of 40. I don't see myself doing another 15 years in prison or 10 years in prison. Certainly not. Certainly not.

You don't want to go back? No, and then by by thinking about all that... Because I questioned myself, for those poor people who lost their jobs. I don't want to go back on that, you understand? No, no, no.

And then I still have Netflix, which will be coming soon. What is Netflix? What is the project? So the project is a Netflix series of 8 episodes, in which all the truth will be told. But I want to tell you, I told you before telling Netflix. Too bad, we'll do it in several series.

Then there is this film, possibly, it's not sure. There is the book that was offered to me. And then there are these networks that I like, because I like to express myself, etc. that I may put in place,

on TikTok, Kik and everything that goes with it. I don't know if I have the right to say it. Yes, yes, you can say everything. Gilbert Chicly, quite simply. I would put the link. Ah, you would put the link, great.

If you want to follow Gilbert, I would put the link in the description below the YouTube video. Thank you, that's nice. In the description, you just listening to on Spotify, Deezer, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Podcasts, there's always a link in the description, you have to click on it, and there will be a link, I'll put all Gilbert's social media if you want to follow him. You got a bit on social media, you said because you had the bracelet, you couldn't go out without it.

Obviously, so I was getting on it. And finally I put the social media... It's a hobby. and a few days ago, I saw that I had 40,000 people following me and that when I went live and we laughed and we talked because time went by, I realized that there are 2,000, 3,000, 4,000 people, 5,000 sometimes. I find it incredible. And so people ask me questions. So, until I can go to your place, of course, I deviate a little from the questions,

to sympathy, whatever you want, but I found it nice. What I'm going to become, I suppose you're going to ask me the question. What do you want? What I'm going to become... Well, first of all, I would like to become what I kept. Well, this legend. That's the least we can say. And maybe, well, I think I'm a myth in some way,

and also a little legend that we are not ready to forget, because we must say that this story has been around the world I want to tell you and finally, there are only memories that we will keep What can we wish you? Good luck

And I think that if you wish me good luck, it's already not bad it's already good that you wish me with good heart because what did you wish me, it's a good luck. And if you knew that we could think the opposite. Do you manage to spend time with your children?

More and more. More and more. You know that I still haven't seen them because of the bracelet. And so they arrive next week. So I'm going to see my children after almost 9 years. You didn't see them in prison at all?

No, I didn't want to. You didn't want to? No, I didn't want them to see this frame of the gays, their father, who can't... You know, girls are really close to their father. You tell them on the phone? Oh yes, all the time.

Obviously, on video. I would like to add something that has touched me a lot in prison, and what I can say about it. When my father died, you know that there are searches in the cells, sometimes to be able to take the phone.

I won't say the name, of course. When my father died, they know because they have immediate information immediate information from the family, etc. I have a member of the penitentiary hierarchy who called me this morning. And this is what he told me. He said to me, Gilbert, how are you? I'm fine, I'm aware of your father, etc.

Gilbert, we'll leave you alone for a month. I will never forget this word. Do you know what that means? It means that for a month you will be able to mourn and see your father on the phone, who will not come to make you run away. And I found that extremely human.

It is a person of the highest rank, of course, whom I thank here, now, right now. And it is extremely important that I say it. We will not say the name of the prison? No, no. We won't say the name of the prison or the name of the person. It's obvious.

But in any case, he will meet me, he will look at me, most certainly, and I want to say thank you. Thank you, Gilbert. I invite you. You came to us.

You live in France now? I live in France. I live in Paris. I am a Parisian. A real Parisian. Do you enjoy freedom? Completely, yes. Every minute, every second, I am a new born. In this new world. Because after 12 years, things have changed. When you get out of prison, it's the same.

It's not the same anymore. Do I have to be called? Do I have to be called? What has changed in the world?

Oh, everything. I should have called him. What has changed in the world? Everything.

Cars, technology? Everything. I was in a bakery when I left. She asked me to pay with the machine. I don't understand what she's asking me. I thought she was asking me to pay with a blue card. The blue card, yes.

But no, I said, Madam, I only have species. Listen to what I'm telling you. She said, Sir, you put that in the machine. And I hadn't understood that there were machines today that you put the money in and it works. Ah yes, the money machine, yes. It didn't exist. At the bakery, there's that.

I can go home. You put coins in it, it's more hygienic. Well, enjoy your freedom. Thank you for your message and everything you conveyed to make the show. Thanks to the whole team for preparing the show with me. Thanks for being more and more friends, for following us on Legendes,

three shows a week with documentaries too, or interviews on Wednesdays, Fridays and Sundays. You can subscribe to our YouTube channel, you are about 150,000, 200,000 to subscribe every month. So thank you for being so many, don't hesitate, it really takes two seconds

and then it helps us to have amazing and exceptional guests like Gilbert today, for example Gilbert Chikli. I'll put all Gilbert's social media in the description if you want to follow him. I send you a big hug, thank you for being more and more numerous and we'll see each other soon for a next video on Legends. and we'll see each other soon for a next video on Legends.

Ciao everyone! Thanks for watching guys!