MAHFUD MD: KATA PAK PRABOWO 'LISTYO (KAPOLRI)... GAK GUNA BINTANG EMPATMU'

I have this data, said Pak Prabowo, I bought it from outside, not from the inside. This company has been eating state money for 34 years. This one, 25 years. This one, 40 years. Eating state money. How can you contribute to the country? It's like this, Pak Pak. You, Pak Mistio, Pak Agus, Pak Limah. It's useless if you ask me to do this.

Mas Darmawan, I'm talking to you, this is not a slander. I will bring the evidence to the meeting. This is the one that hasn't been filed yet. This is the one that has been filed again. There is everything. If there is anyone outside who hears it,

I'm offended. This is what I said, there is evidence. I got it from people who feel underprivileged. In Polri itself, there is an official policy that I heard, that if there is a submission, 30% of the copyright is the copyright of Polri. For example, the new copyright,

30% is Polri. When the professor went in to observe, feel the atmosphere. Do you still have a lot of optimism that this will achieve the target of reforming the police? People's desire for change is 100. Maybe this team can give 60 or 70. 60-70 that Professor can give? There are already many. It was announced yesterday in front of us. If we need to, the draft of the law is delivered to our president.

It's not a recommendation to change the law. No. The plan has been made. The team made it. Bismillahirrahmanirrahim, Assalamualaikum Warahmatullahi Wabarakatuh Malilog friends, the public is worried as they are evaluating the Pory Reformation Acceleration Commission that has just been formed. On one side, there are about four police generals there, and so far the public considers them to be part of the

question, let's just say, of the collapse of the police credibility in the last 10 years. Meanwhile, we can't ignore the very credible civil figures, including Prof. Dr. Mahfud MD, a voice in the midst of so many issues in this country. To unravel, to open up more clearly about this commission, we will immediately invite Professor Dr. Mahbub Endek.

Thank you, Prof. Thank you, Mr. Mohd. Thank you, all of us. Thank you for the invitation. Prof, let's start with something that is still warm. Yesterday, the commission received audiences from various

community organizations, including groups that support the suspects, Mr. Roy Surio and his friends. is not going well in this audience. There is a walkout, and then there is a kind of distrust that comes after that. If we and the audience here know the version of the committee members about the event yesterday. Because yesterday we were visited by another side. And then we have talked a lot about this podcast.

Please, go ahead. to win the public's trust, until the reformation commission works. So, the first thing we do is to invite the public. We have a hotline to give input. Then we received guests who wanted to deliver input. We also visited various places. Yesterday I went to UNER, then tomorrow, on Thursday, Mr. Oto will go to UNER because there was a pro in the police station.

Then there were a lot of There were more than 50 guests, 55 of them had registered. We will hold this event until 7th December. So, we still have two weeks to accept it every day, morning and evening. The purpose is to absorb the aspiration. But absorbing the aspiration is not about solving the case.

This is the key. If we solve the case, thousands of people will report it. There was a woman who was raped by a couple set, and he reported it. That's a case. The chicken was missing, he reported it to the police, but it was not caught, he reported it. There was a divorce, he reported it. That's a case, right?

Yes, that's right.

That's why we said, we will accept the input. What is the problem of Polri? How to solve it? Like that, right? Yes, yes. how to solve it. We all know that there are many impractical things in the police, especially in the case investigation, including the issue of Roy Suryo's license.

We all know the problem. We don't need to report it, we know. But we ask, how to solve this? So, the cases are brought to the reformation commission to abstract the problem. So, the root of the problem is here. That's why Roy Suriow's case, this case, this case. If the case report is not a victim of reformation. If so, when will we finish it?

We are asked to finish the case. There are people who reported to the police station, and they were forced to return. Until this morning, there are so many cases. They reported to the police station, and they were forced to return.

There are so many cases. There was even a general who came to me. I was a two-star general. I wanted to report the criminal. I was asked for money, I was asked to do something,

but I couldn't do it. There were so many cases like that. But what was the abstraction? Abstraction means malpractice, or misuse of practice, or misuse of authority, in political intervention, and so on. Then it will appear. Then, the structure will be improved.

For example, as we said, many people, and yesterday Faizal Hasegab, they want to form a national security minister. What for? So that there is political accountability. But the national security minister is not on the polri. Polri is still directly to the president. But there is a TNI to the government. Some of them are like that. But some of them are not. That's not the problem. We all hear it.

Well, the Roy Suryo case, first, administratively, it was announced that if people are being suspected, they don't have to come because not the end of the story. But, Refli didn't tell Arusuryo that the four of them were coming. He didn't tell him.

He said, I didn't tell him because Pak Jimli will be kind. So, it was just a misperception that made him so popular. Yes. Then, Pak Jim Lee asked the people in front of the stage to sit behind the stage if they wanted to come.

They listened to him. Yes, they listened to him. But they chose to walk out. The four people who were asked to walk out or sit behind the stage were Roy Suryo, Tifa, Rizmun, and Fadilah. They were asked to leave after giving the book. Then the one who accompanied them also asked to leave. There was Mas Eddy Mulyadi.

Mas Reza. Reza hasn't come yet. Saididu hasn't come yet when the incident happened. So, we still wait for the public to come in. But we need a solution. If the problem is a case, it's not the reformation team, it's the police.

There is a procedure. In this just to the police. That's the procedure. In this situation, the police should be careful. If there is a report, it must be processed carefully because there is a reformation team. Many have started to act, the police have started to defend themselves. If so, it's clear, what we get in the news, then we also got other sides. From the reporters, then now we also got a version from Prof.

And Medilong friends, after hearing all this, I think if there is no coverboard site in journalism, then we have done it and friends at home can already discuss from both sides. We go to another thing, Prof. There is an interesting statement from the Minister of Justice yesterday, Mr. Supratman Adi Agats, which is related to the decision of the Supreme Court, Mr. Supratman said that the Polri parties should not be reinstated. This is actually very paradoxical

with what the professor said, that the decision of the Supreme Court was very binding and must be implemented immediately. How do you see the latest developments? According to the Constitution, Article 24C of the Constitutional Court checks and decides the final decision. The final decision is immediately binding. In the Constitution, several times, the Constitution of 1924-2003, it was reviewed several times, but it was stated that the decision of the Ministry of Home Affairs was valid since it was announced.

So, the principle is that the decision of the Ministry of Home Affairs is immediately binding when it is announced, except when it is stated by others. What if it is stated by others? For example, because it is a legal vacancy, then it is given time.

Because this still needs a change of role, it is given time for 2 months, 3 months, and so on. But this one is like ... It's the same as before, what's the name? Wamen's office. Yes, Wamen's office.

It is given time for 2 years. Why? Because there might still be changes in the AD, ART, in the BUMN, the government regulations. If this is directly, it is not given time by the MSM. Therefore, in my opinion, it is clear that the decision of the MSM has has been taken since the binding and since there is a knock, the drawback process must be started. In my opinion, there is a decision of the Ministry of Home Affairs that needs to be regulated first, the new law regulation.

If it's like this, it's directly executable. If you can't, just pull it out. There is no regulation that is needed. What rules are needed? Now, how do we interpret the statement of the Min Qum so that it can make sense to us that the decision of the MKAT is not true? It means that what has been lifted is true. It means that what has been lifted is true until there is a decision.

So, what happened yesterday, even though it was not right, for example, the salary was right, the position was right, etc. But once you are fired, it becomes wrong if you are continued. That's it. That's it. I think there is no dispute, no contradiction.

The termination is like that, between the state officials. That it happens instantly. It happens instantly. Don't think that if the decision of the Ministry of Home Affairs is considered true to the previous one, it can't be. For example, the Ministry of Home Affairs decides on a decision that is already true,

made by the KPU. Then it was canceled by the Ministry of Home Affairs. It's a series of decisions. It means that it can't be continued. It can't be continued. If the head of the region said it can be lifted, then it has to be removed,

it can't be continued. Even though the decision had been made a few months ago. Before that, the Polri also released some content from some professors in some high schools, which contained, let's just say, it's not necessary, then what has been going on, is not wrong. When the statement of this Minister of Justice appeared,

what did the police do by releasing the content of professors who are behind the scenes and the statement of the Minister of Justice itself can be interpreted as what, a defiance of the title? Defiance of the Constitution? The point is defiance of the decision of the Constitution which must be followed by the Constitution. But in order not to be considered as defiance, it can be interpreted. I think I watched yesterday a good member of, Benny Harman. So, it means that the policy is right.

For example, he has been there for 2 years, and his salary is right, his position is right, his decisions are right. But when he is there, he doesn't do it in a hurry. Suarman said that what has been done is right. The future is not right if it continues. I think so.

There are also those who say according to the ASN Law, this is outside the Polri Law, according to the ASN Law, members of TNI and Polri can enter civil offices according to the TNI and the Polri Laws.

Then, if you want to make it as an excuse, you can. It can be included according to the TNI and Polri Laws. The TNI Laws allow for 14. If the Polri Laws are now no longer there, because it is not mentioned. Unless there is a connection.

If there is a connection, for example, BNN, BNPT, terrorism. It's the law that brought the police. It was the law that made the police. Terrorism is okay. BNN is for security,

enforcement of law. Maybe it's applied to a certain level, investigators and so on. If it's needed. But not at the leadership level. That's it actually. If the consequence of just saying, we agreed earlier to say this is a backstabbing,

what is the consequence of Mr. Menkum's statement? Does he have to pull, annul the statement of Mr. Menkum. Should he be interested in analyzing the statement? Yes, he should explain it. Then, what should he do? Because there should be a solution. Yes, if you say,

we can't wait for the pension. Because the structural office, the structural office like the emergency department, can be replaced anytime. It doesn't use the period. It can be changed at any time. It's different with the minister. If the minister has been removed,

there might be a reason. Why? Because the press says, the period is this long, up to this year. If Dirjen, there is no period. Therefore, it can be stopped tomorrow, it can be stopped in 5 years.

Because it can be stopped tomorrow, and there is a rule from the court that it must be implemented. I think the public and experts don't need to debate too long about this. Just take the practice, there is already a ban, why are we still waiting for this? Let's just do it well.

How do you think, Prof, it's way, but it can be a solution? Can we give an option to the parties? Yes, that for the police. This is the original sound. But in the explanation, it is omitted. You know, there is a law, there is a explanation. Usually the explanation is quite clear. This is added, which means the civil office, the office that has nothing to do with the Polri's task,

and or not assigned by the Polri, this is a violation, because this is a new norm. Those who are banned by the Ministry of Home Affairs are not assigned, or not assigned by the Polri, are removed, because there are many of them. The ones who are banned by the Ministry of Home Affairs are not assigned to the police. Because there are so many of them.

Now, they are not allowed to be removed or suspended, but they are assigned to do their job. The reason is because of the request. Now, the one who asks for it has to go back, it is against the law if anyone forces it. Whoever asks for it. Isn't it? It's against the law if you force it. Anyone who asks for it. That's how it is.

The solution must be done. And there was a statement earlier, Prof, that Pak Menkump must explain. Yes, he must explain. But I think in the DPR itself, it's the same as us. It's up to Pak Menkump to explain that what he meant is that what was already in the past, it's true. they get their salary. This is an interesting thing. You said that there is a public concern

about the profiles of the 10 members of this committee. There are 4 generals and the public says they are part of the issue. Five generals and the public says that this is part of the issue. There are people like Prof. and Mr. Jim Lee and so on, who are said to be the sources of the journey. When Prof. went inside, observing, feeling the atmosphere, Prof. still has a great optimism that this will achieve the target for reforming the police?

Until now, it's been almost 3 weeks. From July 7th until now, 2 weeks. I think our communication with the generals is still good. We understand each other that this is our problem, this is our problem. This is at the level of the problem, right? That's our problem, that's our problem. Everything is in accordance with our opinion.

There will still be a solution. When we talk about the solution, maybe there will be different alternatives. We will see. But, Mr. Darmawan, the reformation team was formed by the president.

People can't ask me, Pak Mahfud, why did you join the army? You are like that. Why are there generals who have to be reformed but join the army? That's the question. My answer is,

I'm not the one who formed the army. I don't look for friends. If I'm asked, for example, President Mahfud, form a team. If I am asked, for example, the president of Ramaput, to form a team. Maybe it's not like this. Maybe it's not like this. But the president formed it himself.

We just follow it. Why? Because I have confidence now. The effectiveness. I have confidence. A little bit too much, this team will contribute to change. Maybe it's not like what the public imagines, too frontal. If we want to be frontal, how can we make a team like this? The public wants this, the public wants that.

For example, if we choose to be independent, it's not beneficial if we are not elected by the president. So, I just follow the trend. First, I have agreed to join the team. I joined the team even though I had never been told who my teammates were. Suddenly, I met them during the training. I heard rumors that there were A, B, C, D, and so on. But when I was assigned, task, I was okay. I joined the team.

But when I joined, my friend couldn't go back. It was not ethical. I couldn't go back. I was ready to help. And I knew that this help would be useful. Maybe people's wishes, maybe this team can give 60 or 70.

It's possible. It's from the people's expectations. We want to get there. We are all different, right? I have a proof. There is a proof.

If you can't take it all, don't throw it all away. That's the rule in the law enforcement. If you can't punish all the wrongdoers, just catch them. If you're not wrong, it's the rule of thought. If you can't take it all, don't leave it all. You have a role there. Where you can, right? Then pass it on to the community.

There will be changes that may be insignificant at the beginning, but how significant the changes will be will depend on the president. Prof. Yudhoyo Kuluh and others, for the professor himself, maybe it comes from the belief of the opinion of Vicky. But for some of the public, maybe this is a bit heard on the one hand, a little pessimistic, because 60- 60-70 professors who can give it. There are a lot of public hopes.

Isn't this a kind of skepticism towards this institution? No. I see that not all public wishes can be directly agreed upon. But it is still open. We will see. For example, about the relationship between Polri and the institution. It is still a debate in the society. Is there a political accountability or directly to the president. The political accountability is only to the president because he can be used every day by the president.

How many people's wishes have been registered? For example, there are some actions that are not in accordance with meritocracy. For example, people hope that if it's not like that, then they will stop doing things that are not in accordance with meritocracy. People don't have a general yet, and the general has been punished, and then they will be activated again, and so on.

Then there will be debated later, right? Well, that's where the public's desire is not 100% sure, it depends on the wisdom of the reformation commission. But later, everything will be open to the public, all of it will be open to the public so that it can be better. If we want to solve the old case 100%, I don't think we can. For example, if you want to question the election yesterday,

it's done. We are friends. We defend the country. That's why I said, the international election, the election officials, and so on, it's done. It's done. It can't happen again. It means that it's not 100% if you want to be the election official, right? That's what the people want. If the elements that are included, There is a phenomenon of the party-government.

It's done. No need to question it. But in the future, it's not allowed. How can it be no longer allowed? That's the team's job. Okay. Yesterday, our source said,

pessimism. And maybe if it's not pessimism, we can consider it as skepticism. And maybe if we are not pessimistic, we are skeptical of him. The professor said that 5 out of 10 people are ex-cops or police officers who are still active. The other 5 are civilians. Civilians but officers.

Yusril, Pak Tito, and Pak Oto, they are all officials. They are all presidents. We are from the civil society, me and Pak Jimri. Based on this kind of proportion, our source is then sceptical that the voices of journalists like Prof. Zell will be easily defeated by them.

Prof., do you agree with this statement? It could happen. But we have been in contact for almost three weeks. I think we understand each other. Before the meeting, we talked about this and that. The generals were also angry. They were angry at the general.

And among them, there were many who were known as credible officials. They could be the hope. We will see. Hopefully, it will be possible. Therefore, it is possible and impossible if the result depends on the support of the community. If the community continues to vote, the reformation team was formed because the public didn't want it. Now, the public is always saying,

Sir, please cancel it. If the public cancels it, the commission will be good. What's the solution? We are waiting for it. What actually makes the president still involve the general policy? police? No. All of them are pure outsiders. I don't know. Because as I said before, when I was asked, I agreed.

I want to help. When I was invited, I was not told if I wanted to be appointed. So I was in Surabaya, at night was contacted by the head of the police station, and he asked me, where are you now? I said, I am in Surabaya. Can you come to the palace tomorrow? I said, yes, but it's a bit late. What time is it? I was still oldest son of my family who had been left to their parents. So, I had to come there.

Becoming the heir of a big deal. With Saqon Golido. I was supposed to be there at 11.00. If that's the case, you you come at 15.30?" He said, yes, I can. Because there is a flight at 11.20. I said, I will fly straight from Surabaya.

He said, can you do that? I said, I will wear casual clothes. He said, yes. But when I landed, I was called again.

I had to change my clothes.

I wore a jacket and a young blue shirt. So, I bought the shirt. I called my friend and told him to buy me a shirt. In Madura, there are many blue ones. Like this one, it's green, it's blue. The one who told me to buy it is not Madura,

they bought the blue one.

What's the blue one? Donker? Yes, there are all kinds of blue. Sky blue, sea blue, leaf blue, all kinds of blue. It's considered that the mind is blue. I bought the rice.

I had the rice in my bag. I told you about it. I met the members. I even asked them, if they were ready to start the training, and they said they were waiting for Mr. Sigit.

I asked them, did Mr. Sigit become a member? They said yes. I didn't know that. I was just guessing. Mr. Listio Sigit came and then he was appointed. So, we didn't know. We were informed when he was going to be appointed.

And it was unethical. We questioned why he was appointed. We couldn't do that. We had to accept the job of the president. But the interesting thing is, when Mr. Prabowo gave the direction, it was serious. It was serious.

I think it was witnessed by more than 15 people who were there. When I talked to the reporters, I accepted that they should have said it in a polite way, but they still wanted to help the country. I said, I hope you will be more helpful. When I talked to the reporters, I said, you should have said that you would help the country.

We thank you. Hopefully, the situation will get better. After that, the president asked the reporters to leave. The press was outside. The door was closed. The meeting room was really limited. The president was in charge. So, the direction was interesting.

Polri should be better. Now Polri is in the public eye, said the president. Therefore, we have to improve ourselves. Then, this country is facing difficulties. Natural wealth is now being taken away by irresponsible businessmen, the president said. Then, interestingly, the us the data. For example, the export of a coal.

The government reported that they exported 10 million tons of nickel to China, for example. But in China, it was reported that importing nickel from Indonesia was 100 million tons. We are 10. I have this data, said Mr. Prabowo. I bought it from outside, not from the inside. So he knows. This company has been eating state money. This is 25 years. This is 40 years of state money. Do you want to contribute to the country? We have to be nationalists. Police, army.

At that time, there was Mr. Kapolri. There was Kapolri and Mr. Agus, Panglima. The police and army have to defend the people. This is how it is. Our wealth is taken.

It's like this, sir. You, Pak Bistio, Pak Agus, Pak Limah, it's useless for you to be able to jump this. If you can't help the people by solving these things. Therefore, the police must be good. The army must be good.

This country must be good. We have wealth. Well, that's how the spirit, in my opinion, is okay, that Pak Prabowo has a commitment for that. The problem is, now when Prabowo is in office, the people below him are sometimes in a dilemma.

So, where is the problem? The president is already in office, the office is open, the office is closed. He has a lot of stories. For example, why did I create the Patriot Bond? They have been eating a lot of wealth from Indonesia.

The donation to the Republic of Indonesia is gone. All of it was sent abroad. And there are many other things that we heard. That's why we are very enthusiastic, Pak Prabu. It's just that, later, can the commitment be implemented below the level of the Pidato?

Because there are still many problems, right? It's difficult to do it below the level of the Pidato. Like the decision of the Ministry of Home Affairs, right? For example, it has been said that the Minister, the Deputy Minister cannots to join the BUMN. Just like the decision of the Ministry of Home Affairs. For example, the Minister of Home Affairs was not allowed to join the BUMN. But he was given 2 years.

He should not be added. He should be added. He should not be added. He should be added. Because the Ministry of Home Affairs said, the Minister of Home Affairs was given 2 years. So, they added more MPs who have not been elected.

Even though there is already a decision from the MKP. If you have a commitment, you should immediately move to the next step. If you have a commitment, you should immediately move to the next step. The BUMN can be moved now because there is no problem with the regulations and employment promises. Now, they are adding more. What's the problem? Maybe, this is my guess,

maybe Prabowo doesn't pay attention to who is nominated to be the BMN, who is nominated to be the official, because he has spoken globally.

He is only a holistic.

But when it comes to people who should be promoted, maybe he doesn't ask, can we do this?

Maybe.

It's not one by one. Maybe. I don't know. But for sure, the idea of Pak Prabowo is great, but the implementation at the level of the Ministry below is not yet. And many things have happened.

What do you think is related to this? But, it hasn't happened yet. And many things have happened.

What do you think is related to this? You said before you joined this team, you said that the Roy Suryo case was not worth to be suspected because there were more basic issues, but the investigation itself was not clear. Is there a response inside that made the atmosphere a bit less conducive?

In the reformation commission? No, no. We did not discuss Roy Suriow's case at all. I was talking about the technical side. First, each of these members has autonomy in presenting their opinions. Therefore, if you can't attend the meeting, you can't be represented. Now, there are still people who represent.

Okay, you can be represented. Why? Because the people are still listening. But if you have discussed the issue, you can't be represented. You can attend, but you can't be represented. That's one. So, now, if there is a meeting, there will be a lot of politicians.

It is allowed during the audience. If we have a meeting, a decision-making meeting, I said, no. Anyone, minister, or capolery, or ministerial representative, or anyone, cannot be represented if it is a discussion. I have been there since the 7th. It must be close, limited, and closed.

Is there anyone there? Yes, there is. We have 12 people who are considered experts. They don't want to join the discussion, but they listen and write, then classify, and then give alternative decisions. They can come in because they have to listen to the decisions and see what the results are like. With so many audiences, including the one yesterday, Have you or at least the professor himself seen what the people actually want

from this commission?

There are many. I have gathered, one from the meetings, the second from the forums, the third from the people who complained to me. Maybe they complained to Pak Jim Lim Liman, or to someone else. The cases that they experienced due to their unprofessional behavior, even the crimes committed by the politicians. There are so many cases.

So, I have a lot of things to say, but I will abstract it later. There are so many cases like Roy Surio. What is the case? You asked Roy Surio, why Roy Surio should be convicted of false justice. The accusation that the license is fake. So, I asked,

Roy Suryo, CST, what are you accused of? Oh, he was accused of spreading slander because of the fake license. Well, then he should not be suspected before the license is proven to be fake or not. By the court, not by the police false or not. It was not the police. The police did not have the right to collect the evidence.

Then it was delivered to the judge. Then the judge saw which one was the correct evidence. Then the conclusion was, oh, this is the original permission. Then Roy Suriwotu was allowed to be sent to court. But now the permission is not yet. That's my opinion. Pak Jim Lee's opinion, Pak Hibnon O'Groho, a great teacher, and Pak Asusnodo Haji, a former kabaritan, are all the same.

It should be approved by the court. Why was it immediately suspected before the court approved it, and it was declared a fake? Well, that's why I think the procedure is a bit weird. So, it's up to the court's courage. The court's courage. The police will be sent to P21.

It can be reversed. It has to be proven first. It's not worth it. How can you do a jumping from something, demanding this, but the proof is not here. It should be proven here first, so that it can be here.

One. If the public is also in doubt about the judiciary, the judge will say, the judiciary, the judiciary, the law enforcement, starts with the exception that this is not qualified to be brought to court. If the judge states that it is not qualified, but let's prove it in this case. Well, it can be proven first before the evidence of slander.

Before slander and so on, what is the name of the defamation, prove it first. If this is proven to proven original or not, it's a risk, right? Oh, this is original, it turns out. This is continued slander and so on. If this is not original,

it can't be continued, it won't be proven. Is there a mechanism in law to cancel the position or status of the 8 people's allegiance? Now it is suspected, if it is not. It is suspected, but the court is a bit doubtful.

Because the initial process has already started. These are the public feelings that must be reformed tomorrow. In the court, the police are playing. They lost again. That's how public suspicion has always been. Without a trial, can this suspected status be annulled?

Because with the... No, the Jaksa later. Jaksa said it. So Jaksa can say, this cannot be continued. Or Jaksa said,

it's okay, it can't be continued, it's closed. But later it can be exception. Exception in the first session. We make an exception because this, this, this. I think we need a smart judge.

Usually, the smart ones are like that. Regardless of whether we like it or not, like Hotman Paris, he can find things like that. He's smart too, if you look for it. But okay, it's up to the judge. Well, that's it, sir.

The second one, the judge can decide. The judge decides the NO. The NO cannot be accepted. Not rejected, but not accepted. It does not go into the court. Why?

Because there is no evidence. So, the NO is the NO. But, it's the NGO. But if it's the NGO, it can be tried again. But, okay, we will be tried again. But first, the trial will be finished by the judge. By the criminal judge.

What is a criminal judge? Not another court. There are some who are confused. Mr. Mahfud said, we will be tried again, by the PTON data.

No, I have said that the PTON data cannot be judged. The court of appeals is different. It is a new case, especially for the justice. Or the court should start first, to prove whether the justice is original or not. This is only fair, the court.

The court can judge it later. Because we have the original document, we have the original document, fair. The court will be fair. The court will be fair. The court will be fair. The court will be fair. The court will be fair. The court will be fair. The court will be fair. The court will be fair. The court will be fair. The court will be fair. The court will be fair. The court will be fair. The court will be fair. Is it possible that there is no process to confirm

whether it is true or not, but the trial continues, it means the trial is not fair. Of course it is not fair. If there is no evidence to prove it, it is not fair.

But you know, the decision of the trial is fair or not, it's binding. Do you agree or disagree with that? It's binding. Unless there is an intervention from the president, he can do deponeering or suponeering, or whatever. The president can do that. But if the judge says that, it's still binding.

Even though it's not wrong, it's still binding. The judge will be judged by the judge himself. It's not that the case is canceled. If every judge is accused of not properly cancelling the case, there will never be a case solved. That's why it's good to have a law.

The decision of the judge to solve all the cases, even though you don't like it. Sometimes it's used by the judge. I win. I have the right. I represent God on earth. Prof, we're back to the reformation of the polytechnic.

What is it that the professor in the last two weeks has realized will or is considered the biggest obstacle to the reformation of the polytechnic? Not yet. I'm honest, there's nothing yet. What is honest, I haven't. What do I want to say? First, I have a position to say something that I think is good. If we want to reform, it doesn't have to be the same as the opinion of the civil society.

But it also has to be the same as the opinion of the poll results. It doesn't have to be the same. We have our own position. Secondly, those who are on this team, those 10 people, especially the generals, said, we are willing to build a good and credible police department according to the reform. Therefore, we want to change. We want to fix our mistakes.

It means that they are open. They even have an official presentation of the police department. It's the same as the public's assessment that there are many secret police. We even just learned from the presentation that in our country, 67% of the police officers are not performing. 67%?

That's more than 2 out of 3. And there are dozens of police officers who do not meet the requirements. Actually, their performance is not at all. the police force that doesn't meet the requirements. They know it. The arrest, the beating, they know it. They have registered it. It's up to them to solve it.

If we do it, it will be different. And they have a lot of problems in the police department. There are many problems. There are political interventions and so on. It has been known by the police, by us, and by the community. Even many, but I have to protect the name. Many people from the police department, the internal police, from the high-ranking officials,

from the active police areas, reported to me. They reported to me, sir, that the police is not different here. This is the case, this is the proof. And later I will open it in that meeting. They want to change because we want to be a people's police, right? We are born from the people, they said. That's it.

That's what the generals in this team said. We know what they are. If we compare it to the police performance, it looks like a paradox. What makes them difficult while they are the generals? The police still have the command. No, the generals are all retired.

Mr. Listio is still there. Yes, Mr. Listio is still there. Mr. Listio didn't have a chance to talk about it. But the other generals, Mr as Pak Listio, rarely attended. Pak Listio attended the first meeting. He was never represented. But I said, you can't be represented.

If you have a discussion, you have to come alone and make your own decision. I think it's fair. It's okay. We will hear it too. He must be given the right to make a decision and to defend that what he did needs to be continued or changed. And I said, the reform commission is not here to question or to judge.

No. We are here to find the good ones. So, we are not looking for the winner, but we look for the right one to fix it. I got information from the professor that Mr. Listio Kepori still holds the command, still holds the authority, Is this a form of lack of willingness to accept the trust? While he was given the trust by the president to join the team to fix the problem. Every time there is a meeting, Mr. Listo always has other tasks. Mr. Yusril was not present, he was only there twice. Mr. Tito was there twice.

But everyone gave information in the group. That I am now in charge of this, I am now in charge of that. I ask to be represented by this. Okay, if tomorrow, I can't be the representative. I said, it's fair that the press of this formation gave the right to determine this. So, in my opinion, Mr. Listio has a lot of tasks. It's like a ministerial office.

Like Mr. Yusriel, he will be in Japan for three days. He can also be present. I was in Japan for 3 days. And then I was still able to attend. But at some point, I was absent. I couldn't attend at the same time. As a person who is involved in the state affairs,

did you see any leadership issues that are related to policing? Well, I think the conclusion is that all the problems that become the people's problems are the same. The identification of the people, the police, why is it like this? Why is there this case? Why is there this case? What is which is made by Polri and identified by us in the community, it's the same. The feeling, the backing, everything is known by Polri.

Why doesn't it work? So, there are two keys. Meanwhile, one is leadership. There is no one who can explain this, except for leadership. The second is political intervention.

Two.

So, later we will talk about how leadership The second is political intervention.

I remember we will talk about how the leadership of Polri is from every level. I don't say Mr. Alistio's leadership. Leadership is in the three stars, the capolda, everything is needed. This is leadership. How to arrange the leadership in a orderly manner? According to the order and the order of the king, it is already good. The vision and mission will be in order.

If it is translated into leadership, it is extraordinary. That's it. Prof. You said that after the 7th, after you took all the public aspirations, all the team members will meet and discuss, and at that time, the possibility will be not a friction, actually, but a clear difference of opinion. What will be the limit of the professor?

So that the professor can say that this is successful, this is not. And at the extreme point, the professor comes out. What is the red line? I have not thought about it. But we try to talk objectively. And in the process of discussion,

the alternative I give is not the right solution, but there is a better solution, or it can't be. It's discussed there. So, I don't know if there is an extreme point that must be brought out. No. It's very hard. We use deliberative, from heart to heart. If the decision is like this, how? If not, we will compare it. Maybe, maybe. We will leave it to the president.

Sir, this one, this one, this one, this one, are equally important. You decide, for example. Is that what the professor said earlier as a form of leadership? There are two solutions earlier. The second is politics. Politics. Politics means, more precisely, the goodwill of the president. But it's not only that.

If it's about the police, the politics is not only intervention from the president, but also from the political party. You know, the political party likes to spy on people, spy on the authorities, the DPR, etc. It is clear that there is a policy in Polri. I heard that if there is a subsidy,

30% of the proceeds will go to the Kapolri. For example, the subsidy for the new government, 30% of the population is capolri. Is the capolri corrupt? No, because they have a political relationship that cannot be rejected. For example, if someone is in the DPR, they will be expelled, but later they will be treated well. I was so happy. I was so happy. I was so happy. I was so happy. I was so happy.

I was so happy. I was so happy. I was sent to the Army. In the past, the education system was the same. The Army and the Police were the same. I was sent to Pak Adi, he was a good person.

I told him that I could not send the money, because I had already sent the money to him. I had already made a list of the money.

I sent the money to Mr. Adi.

He said, he had already paid the money. I was the one who paid the money. But he passed away. He passed away after waiting for so long. He just passed away three weeks ago. People who have been waiting for so long have just died.

Prof, in your opinion, is it normal to lose 30% of the country's GDP? Or is it something that must be lost to make this country a better place? Yes, it must be lost. So, everyone must be meritocratic. If people want to be promoted, what is the reason? What is the size? Don't let people who haven't been promoted ...

There is a rule, for example. I don't know the exact number, but if people want to be promoted, the minimum task in the political party is a maximum of 26 years in the field. What if someone who is only 22 years old is working?

It's already clear.

Yes, it is. It should not be. There is no meritocracy. Some people are not clear, and suddenly they become a couple rescue. Meanwhile, those who want to be a couple rescue,

the better ones, according to them, are many. It's just a mere bureaucratic measure. That's why there is a principle. Tomorrow, the capolists don't need to ask for approval or consideration from the DPR. And I agree with that. And not only Kapoli, but also Panglima. Even the state institutions, like BPK,

and people who didn't pass the exam reported to us. I asked them to provide the funds. They all reported. Now, imagine BP financial inspectorate, only two of the bodyguards have been imprisoned. The officers are the ones who are on duty on the ground.

Back then, when Mr. Darmawan was in charge of the reformation, the DPR was too weak. So, we were excited about the reformation. in power, the DPR was too weak. So, we were so excited about the reformation. Now, all the people are going to the DPR. Then, it happened. It was not wrong to declare the DPR.

In the Nasar Act, there is no such thing as the pandemic must be handled by the DPR. It's in the law. It's easy to put it in the team. It's because of the things that are not normal. Because the Kapolri is burdened by politics.

The budget... I will talk to you about it. It's not a slander. I will bring the evidence to the meeting. This is the one that hasn't been done yet. This is the one that has been pushed back. There are all kinds of slander. If there are people outside listening, it's not a slander. But if there are people inside, it's a slander. So, I will bring the evidence to the meeting. This is the evidence that hasn't been published yet. This is the evidence that has been published.

There is everything. If there is anyone who hears it, they will be offended. This is what I said, there is evidence. I got all the evidence from people who feel under the influence.

This is it, sir. This is it. There are various NRP. Therefore, I want to come here and talk about it. We can talk about the past. There is no problem.

Let's just move forward. Let's look ahead and build Indonesia together. There is a small country, Georgia. We know what corruption is like in the police. Then they cut off one generation. After two weeks, the professor was there,

got a lot of input and so on. The professor saw that the canker has been so bad, so it becomes one of the alternatives

that we should think about.

That's an alternative. But I think it's too far. Because the police are only broken by the law. The police is not... The police is okay, the services are okay, the housing is okay, the protection is okay, but the enforcement of the law is the problem.

So, you see, there are 84 villages in Indonesia that are safe. The illegal police are limited in cities and the number is also limited. So, it's not good to go to Georgia. In my opinion. But I will be biased. Georgia is a small country, with a population of 3.8 million,

the police force is 20,000, 16,000, and they are all suppressed. It's good until now. But there are other countries in Brazil, in Espirito Santo, Espirito Santo is a district.

It's actually called Santos Sakra, Espirito Santo.

Well, the police there are always wrong. They ask for a guarantee that they won't be arrested, they are always blamed. I was asked to pay the rent, but I was always blamed. I was blamed for murdering people, for prostitution. When I went to the police office, they said, I don't work there. I was blamed for murdering hundreds of people. I was blamed for going to the office of prostitution shops.

So, for example, not only in Georgia, but also in Brazil, a regency. When there is no police. Yes. So, let's solve this problem. Don't intervene too much. The police will be aware. And I hope that the awareness make us feel relieved. Every time I go to the police station, I say, we want to be good, but please fix it.

It means politics. Leadership and politics. We should be good. If we can't, we will wait for the destruction. If we can't fix it, we will wait for the destruction. If it can't be fixed, we are waiting for the destruction. That's for sure. In the past, the police were under the control of the government. And the power was like that.

Now, the police are also very powerful. And the performance is similar to what we have discussed. Can we say that the police in the era of Maaf Orde Baru compared to now is better than before or better than now? I'm sorry, but it's not about the leadership. The police in the early days of the reformation.

The leadership of the SBI was still good. I don't want to compare it to the leadership of Mrs. Migah. It was good because Mrs. Migah intervened.

Yes.

The political intervention made the police bad.

No matter how people say, the police has been bad for the last few years. So, the term, Parcok, has been used since 2019. Even in the era of Pak Jokowi, the first period, it was still okay. There was a backing, but it was only for Diano. In the first period, Mr. Jokowi was still okay. There were some backing, but it could be done by Diano. It could be shown to the public as something that was then finished.

That's why we need to be aware of the political intervention. And those who are in the police force, who are aware that they are not in the leadership, they will realize that they are too many, and they are mixed up. So, they are not professional. What is the proof?

We can't reveal it to the public. I will tell you, Dian, in the inside, with this note, I want to make amends. I don't want to make amends. He didn't want to question the past.

The past is over, we accept it. We accept it as a journey of the nation. What is it that you think the president should do from this team? I think the president will join this team. Of course, there are some teams that are very strict. For example, yesterday, on 5th August,

there were some teams that had to change the law. The law, not the basic law. The law was like this, and the law was like that. So, when we were in the pres we will have to change the rules. Because the president doesn't like to discuss. We will be concrete.

If we give him an alternative, we will discuss. We don't like the FGD version. Especially the FGD-FGD. We already know the problem. We will prepare the rules. If we have to make a law, for example, what is the rule and how If we have to make a law, for example,

what is the article and how do we want to change it? And is it true that if we change it, it will be better? So that the president will be clear. That's if it's a decision-making process. There may be an alternative, right? There are certain things, and there are alternative options. The problem is, Sir, the choice is these three, for example.

The choice of the solution depends on you. The President can choose. But if I look at the President's direction yesterday, he really wants to fix this policy. It's not entirely possible that this team will give a kind of legal plan. Yes, it was even announced yesterday announced it yesterday in front of us. If we need a law plan, we will deliver it to the president.

We don't have to say, it's a recommendation to change the law number. No. The plan has already been made by the team. That's why we hire those experts. But it's not to sell the policy, because there are also some people who have to find the experts. But it's not only for the police. There are also some people who have to think about

whether it's true that the law has been changed. For example, if the police department becomes the president, we can just make a draft law to change the policy. It's like this.

The president will be elected in a formal way so that there will be no debate, or it will be proposed as a draft of the necessary laws. And it can be done in a week, because the law must be done in a day.

It's important.

It's only a week.

I thought the president had a good idea. This is important. Just for a week, right? Just for two days. Four months.

I think the president has a good intention. But we will not corner the president politically, the police politically, etc. We have gone through this in the past. This is to support Indonesia. You have to be saved in a good way.

Thank you very much, Prof. Thank you, Darmawan. Sobat Madilog, in the end, this nation always returns to one question. Is our justice function only to protect power or is it brave enough to protect the common people? The Polri Reform Commission will be tested not by the press conference, but by the courage to touch on the most uncomfortable issues,

including public questions about the dignity of a president and the fate of those who ask him. Professor Mahfud MD stood at that point, the cross between personal integrity and structural challenges. Here is the importance of clarity, because genuine reform does not come from the noise of the afternoon, but from actions that arestill against temptation and pressure. And maybe at a time like this, it would be wise if we remember the words of Imam Abu Hanifa,

one of the greatest founders of the majab in Islamic law. Justice is the right of anyone who is oppressed, even if he himself is against the whole country. Meanwhile, Imam Jaafar Ash-Shadiq reminded with a soft but hard tone the meaning of truth does not need a helper to stand up, what it needs is only humans. So what are we waiting for from this commission?

Simply, the courage to uphold the truth, even if it is not popular, and the determination to improve the institution, even if it is challenged. If both of those things work, this nation can finally breathe longer. If not, history has too often recorded how reforms change only to be mere decoration. Thank you for watching. how reforms change only to be mere decoration. Thank you for watching.

Assalamualaikum Warahmatullahi Wabarakatuh. Thank you.