Michael Irvin On Cowboys, Micah Parsons, Deion Sanders, Travis Hunter, Cam Newton & Jerry Jones

Let me get the car give me one of them that my check right there y'all That check never million-dollar check. I Left that right there on the table Right in my room. So soon as, hustle paid the price. Want a slice, got to roll the dice.

That's why, all my life, I been grinding all my life. All my life, been grinding all my life. Sacrifice, hustle paid the price. Want a slice, got to roll the dice. That's why, all my life,'ve been grinding all my life. ♪♪

Hello, welcome to another episode of Club Shayshay. I am your host, Shannon Sharp. I'm also the proprietor of Club Shayshay. Stopping by for conversation and a drink today is an NFL icon. He's a Cowboys legend,

one of the greatest receivers of all time. He's tied for the most 100-yard receiving games in the season. He's a three-time Super Bowl champ, three-time All-Pro, five-time Pro Bowler, Pro Football Hall of Fame. He once led the NFL in receiving yards in a single season. He's an all-decade member of the 1990s.

He played his entire career with one team, America's team, a national champion with the Canes. He's won a Florida's, he was on the Florida's All-Century team, University of Miami Sports Hall of Famer, Texas Sports Hall of Famer. He was inducted into the Cowboys Ring of Honor. Fearless competitor, clutch performer, and a vocal leader, sports analyst, broadcaster, seasoned commentator.

He's a father, a husband, a brother, a son, and a great, great friend.

Here he is, ladies and gentlemen, the playmate.

That's your hell of an intro. Oh my God. Did I do you right? Did I do you right?

Yes I did.

You don't even, boy, God. That's all you, that's all you, right?

I always wanted to hear an intro like that, man, but that really means you getting old. That's what that really means, you start getting all them lineups like that. But guess what? You get to hear it. You get to hear it. Cause you know normally when they give you one like that,

you don't know nothing about it. Ty, when they give you that one set of flowers, here's what you need to hear, here's what's on top of your grave at the same time. And you gone. So you right, I get to hear it while I'm in time

and I'm not in. Man, you know, I but it's early today. It's about six o'clock. Man, it's good time. It's good time. This is my cognac.

It's my time.

You know what I mean? And we don't put it into work, Shan. Yeah. We can stop early if we want and do a cognac.

We can do that right now.

Mm, Shan.

That's rich, Shannon. That ain't nothing made on the hood or nothing. That's real stuff. Yeah, that's real stuff, Mike. That's real stuff, that boy.

Mike, we going back 30.

That's real stuff, Shannon.

That's all right, man.

How's that doing? How's the business doing? Doing really well. We're doing really well. We're coming to Dallas. Man, that's there, buddy. I appreciate that. Man, how you been, Mike? I'm doing great, Shannon.

I am absolutely doing fabulous. I really am, man. I mean, I saw you at the hall, what, about almost a month ago, a little past three weeks ago, we was at the hall. You know how we do. We get together in our little group, me, you, we back at the back of the bus, we laughing

and I. Right. And we always cutting up. And I told you, man, I had so much fun. And I'm not going to lie, man, this year, because I've been through things, you know what I mean? And I reach out and tell you I love you and stuff like that when you're going through it. And I was watching it. Because how we see the hall, right? That's our brotherhood. Yes. And I know you felt everybody was trying to get around. You're right.

In here, we ain't thinking about that. Correct. In here, it's us. And just to see that whole night, that whole week, we laughing, messing with each other everywhere, messing around.

And then to see Shannon, to see you up there with your brother, because I know what it means, your brother. And then to see Shannon, to see you up there with your brother, because I know what it means, your brother, and I don't know if people know the relationship I have with Sterling, me, him, Tim coming in together,

always talking, competing together, you know. I knew, I gotta worry about that joker. I gotta worry about that joker. Let me tell you how they got me. I promise you, when I was here, when it come before I came in,

Gil Brent came to Miami and I was playing basketball. I set a workout at a certain time. I did my workout for all the guys. Now I'm shooting basketball. Gil Brent comes late on purpose. And he said, I wanted to see what kind of competitor you are.

He came in, he comes in the gym, and they said, Gil Brant, Gil Brant, from the Cowboys, I said, my workout's done. My workout's done, man. You're done with it? I said, I already did the workout. The Joker came, and Gil, he said,

oh, he just wanted to talk to you, then. He came and talked to me, he said, yeah, You know, we're going to take a receiver. I understand Mr. Workout. I can get it on tape. But I just left Sterling, and boy, did he look good. I said, let's go work out.

Ah!

I said, let's go work out, mama.

Let's go get that work out in.

Ah.

Ah, ah, ah, ah, ah.

That's how they talk. That's how they talk.

That's how we battle, man. That's what brings you that close, man. So, you know, yeah, that was funny, man. But I loved seeing it. And they saw you back on that talk right up there, brother. I'm telling you, I appreciate that.

That did my heart so well. Appreciate that. Of course, I was laughing with you the whole week. So, see, you on time too. But, but then- And put the serious face on in front of the camera. We have fun, we have fun. This episode is brought to you by Prize Picks. You and I make decisions every day,

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Use code Shannon to get $50 in lineups after you play your first $5 in lineups. That's code Shannon to get $50 in lineups after you play your first $5 lineup. Prize Picks. It's good to be right. When I go back and I look at you, you are an outstanding basketball player. Was basketball your first love

or was football always your first love? Basketball was my first love. Basketball was my first love. I'm gonna be straight with you and honest with you. I don't, like, I played with some top guys and played well with guys.

Football just had a different confidence on the court. You know what I mean? And I was like, man, and I'm not a one or a two, you know, I'm a rough guy, so I can rough these jokers in high school and maybe even college. But at six, two, six, three, you ain't going to be roughing them jokers that done the love one, you know what I mean? So I used to be out there. Mitchman, who's my best friend growing up,

Mitch Richman and I, that's who I played with all, we used to play high school and go around beating everybody all the time. You know, Mitch went, he's a Hall of Famer. Yes. So we, Mitch and I, we grew up together.

About two weeks before we got drafted, we were all in Miami. Mitch is about to be a top five pick, top ten pick. I'm about to be a top ten, eleven pick in the draft. And we were eating at Denny's somewhere right across the street from the University of Miami. And I don't know, somehow we didn't got, nobody had any money. Nobody has any money.

Damn. Man, we ate all this damn food. They called the police. And we were like, oh my god, man, don't do this with me. How you mean you ain't got no money? Police come, man. They about ready to take us to jail

because we ain't got no money. And we like, listen, we getting drafted in a couple of weeks, man.

We'll come back and pay you.

The cops took care of it. They paid it. They said, boy, y'all got A's. I swear, I don't know how we messed this up. But Mitch and I was so tight, man. And I always thought if Mitch made it, I could have made it. But Mitch was a shooting guard. Mitch could shoot that thing. And I could shoot, but I couldn't

handle the ball like that. So football, for me, was my way. I've always said, my brother tells the story. Like when you come from rural South Georgia, there's really no one to look to. That if you wanted to be, let's just say a doctor. We didn't know any doctors. If you wanted to be a lawyer,

we really didn't know any lawyers. But if you wanted to be a professional athlete, who would we go? It's not like it is now, where guys are accessible. You have the internet, or you and I to look up to and say, you know what? That's what I want to be like, except on television. But we didn't have access where we could physically touch

or talk to that individual. Our game came from, I don't want to be him.

Yes.

I want to be like him. It's like, I'm not going to be him. That's how we felt. And honestly, because of where we come from, you know, and it's so funny you bring this up, because of where we come from, you sit and be like, man, you know, darn. And you tell somebody, I'm gonna make it to the league.

Boy, who you know made it to the league?

That's exactly what you're saying.

That's exactly, they always say that. Like, why I gotta know somebody? They wanna go do something. That's the first thing they say. Because you know what, Mike? When we was growing up, if you got a job, somebody helped you get that job. Right. If you got a job at the portrait,

you had to know somebody that worked at the portrait. Or the fruitcake parlor.

Whatever, you knew somebody. Who you saw that? So now who you know,

is that the way you gonna do? I don't know nobody. Right, right, right. But I'm going. And I got, you better have a backup plan. Yeah, I'm gonna have a backup plan. Y'all gonna back up when I get my money.

That's what y'all gonna do.

Back up when I get my money. They ain't gonna back up. They never will back up. And I started studying that too. That's funny bringing that up, because I was studying for my kids, my kid. My kid was into music. And we were beating on things, you know, all the time around the house.

And he's rapping now on the Tarantino. And I started studying it, because like you said, no, no, no, saying no to him, you shouldn't say no. Like they say that he may be walking out his talent or working out his talent.

So I have to say to him, Elijah, everybody's not ready to hear that this time. But I don't want to say no, no, no. And they surmise that African-Americans hear the word no, no, no, no so many more times than any other group. Like even if you say, Mom, I think I'm going to quit my manager job and go back to school. Boy, you better not do that, boy. You're going to quit that good job? Boy, you got a good job. I'm going to quit

that good job, but I'm going back to school. I'm going to get better, you know, any other culture. That's a great idea. We'll help you. to get out of that. No, no, no. And really, really learn. But most, I tell my people, look, when you have a great calling, a great calling, something deep down inside of you, the next thing you'll have to show is courage.

Because once you share that calling, everybody else gonna say, boy, who you know? You know what I'm saying? So you gotta have courage. They're gonna try to talk you out of it. Right, and sometimes out of love. It's not even negative.

They love you.

And they're doing it out of love, but they didn't feel the call. So you just gotta go with that call and have the courage to overstep what they're saying, but understand. You remember that 1992, I think it was Foot Locker that put on the slam dunk contest. I think it was you, Griffey, Bonds, Tithe.

Golly, yeah, Tithe, all of us. Boy, that was great. I don't know why they stopped doing that. They stopped doing the NFL fastest man? The way you can bring back the NBA dunk contest is making NFL players.

Boy, I get wrong to you. You let NFL players, like you let a Miles Garrett get in that thing. And dude, I'm going to tell you something. That made me retight. When I started seeing this kind of athleticism,

we were playing a basketball game against Washington. They had just drafted LaVar Arrington. Boy, right here, a reunion, I'm shooting back. We been winning, LeVar gets that ball and from the feet, throw the line. I was like, damn, this is 250, 60 pounds fly.

And I said, boy, it's time for you to tie it. But Mike, they don't remember. The teams used to put together basketball teams in the offseason and they would travel around the Broncos would play the Raiders the Raiders will play the Cowboys the Cowboys We're playing so they just us. I ran the hoop And you know

They would see who had the best boy We we played and we played and we mess around and we play around and then we go mess around, pan around again after the game. You see what I'm saying? We mess around in the game and then we play around.

You're serious at the end trying to win. Exactly. And then after the game, it's a one-two. And when we at, I don't know, we talked a lot about this in the documentary. I don't know if we even brought it up. But we were, oh my God, man, around here,

and we were winning Super Bowls, so we're going to the McAllen, the Brownville, and all of them, and boy, they were, hey, boy. I ran it so I would get the whole floor. I made them rent out the whole floor. I didn't want anybody on our floor because that may be, yeah, we just need to keep it in the family.

You know what I'm saying?

So they gave me the whole floor. And we had some great times. We would win games. You would play the fighting department, the police department. Yeah, that's exactly right.

Right, it's all charity. And you sit around, sign, and then you go to the spot, it's your spot, man, those were great times. They don't do that stuff now. They don't do that stuff. But back then, football teams were more, you know, we did all that. We went bowling, and I tell people this all the time,

I say, I don't know how close teams are, because I've been retired for two decades, you've been retired two plus decades, but we went bowling, we went to movies, we did things together, we went fishing, we did things together. I mean, we rolling dice, we going over to each other's house, rolling dice, we rolling dice.

I mean, we might not get home, practice might end at three o'clock, we got meetings. Guys wasn't getting home till seven o'clock. Man, I remember asking Steve Backward and told the story, I said, man, y'all can get me divorced. I'm gonna roll a dime if you got it. I'm gonna bet on it. I got a wife and kids. But you know what, you know the importance of it. And I try to tell people this.

That's why here in Dallas, they were not going to the hotel the nights before games. I said, well, what are we doing? You know, and you win championships by making a commitment man to man. One man to the other.

That's what I was sharing with Miami. I would get my job done. Now the coach's job is to create moments. So you can make them damn commitments to each other. And the team, that's what we're doing. We're creating moments so we can make that commitment. We'll be in week three and I'm eating dinner with Eric Williams.

And we're eating, after we're all together, I'm like, hey, big fella, week eight, you got Reggie White coming in here. I got him, I got him, I'm just letting you know. Reggie White coming in, you know. Week four, we're doing it again.

Big fella, that was a good win. But week eight, we got Reggie White coming. Leave me alone about Reggie White. I said, okay, he gonna be ready. He ready, he ready. He ready. It's just ways you're trying to get that commitment made, one man to another, and get the job done. Who do you think, what state has produced the best athletes?

Georgia, Florida, Texas, California. I love this battle.

Why?

I love this battle. Why?

I love this battle, because it, you know, I-

It's closer. Look, it ain't but a handful of states that's in it. It's Texas, Georgia, California, and Florida. That's all- look, Louisiana, Ohio, I'm sorry. But it's really a 14 race. It's a 14 race. It's a four horse race.

I'm with you on that. And y'all know where I'm playing my flag. Now, now, now, they got some athletes here. They got some athletes here, man. But it's usually, usually, the greater the pain, the greater the gain. Yes. And we got great athletes in all of those places.

But out of all of those places, the greatest pain is coming from Florida. And I said, those boys in Florida got the greatest pain. But yeah, man, we used to joke about that around here, man. Like, think about it. When we were rolling, it's like, hey,

we had the top three dudes from Florida. Dion, Emmett, and me. Florida, Florida, state of Miami. So we were like, we used to be arguing with the dudes from Texas. Joker, y'all wouldn't be winning this if we wasn't here. So shut up, just shut up right now and enjoy.

Enjoy the ride.

Just enjoy the ride.

We used to do that all the time around. All right, I'm asking you this. Give me your Mount Rushmore of Florida players.

Yeah.

Somebody go get left off. I'm gonna throw some names out. You got time on one. You got Ray Lewis you got Sam Emmett the arms one Lamar Jackson D Henry Brian Jockin Oh Joe Cinco Antonio Brown yourself Frank Gore Dude dude and Dude, dude, and some that even got cut short. If Jerome Brown, if Jerome Brown didn't, career get cut short, life got cut short,

and he would be right here to be Deon Jerome Brown.

You know what I'm saying?

People don't really know how good J Boogie was, man.

What, man?

Axe was my receiver coach. He was the one that recruited Jerome Brown. He would always tell us stories. He said, man, listen, I went to recruit Jerome Brown. His dad was over there in Brookville, up under a car, working on the car.

He came on out, shook my hand. And he said, then the car fell off the rock. And he was like, he said he was waiting on him to put a jack back under there and start jacking it up. He opened the door and said, what? Called the wife's name, said, tell JB to get on down here. And JB came on down, what's up man, what's up? The truck, car fell. He said, JB didn't move. Lift the car up, they put the bricks back on, coach said, please sign this scholarship. Please sign this scholarship. He said, please sign this scholarship.

I don't know. I don't know. Well, you're going to see no more. He said, sign this scholarship. JB was the bad boy. But I would have to go down and do Ray Lewis.

I would have to put Ray in there. I don't see myself physically gifted enough to even throw myself on a Mount Rushmore out of Florida. You know what I mean? Not physically gifted. Now I put my hardware up against anybody. What about the U?

What if we put the U players Mount Rushmore? Yeah, and that too, you know, because we always arguing about this. We always arguing about this now. Now, me, Ray, Ed, Reed, Warren, Sapp, and all the people that ain't them

always wanna throw a show on Taylor. I say, y'all stop. Y'all stop. Because all of them boys are bad and they deserve their rights. But I'm the only one on offense.

They can stop that mess right now.

Hey, if it was a quarterback, you had a shot at getting ahead of me, but it ain't no quarterback in here. So it is I. You can stop that right now. It is I.

Yeah, we have that debate all the time, man. What made you wear 47? Man, they give those numbers at Miami. Remember, Eddie Brown wore number 40, Yeah. Stanley Shakespeare were 6. My boy Brett were 33. I didn't want 47.

I went to Jimmy on this, man. I had a long talk with Jimmy. I said, Coach, man, listen, can I just change to 7? As wide receiver, number 7, I'm going to give you some touchdowns, seven points. We need seven. He said, Michael, I'm just a freshman. He said, why receiving number seven? I'm going to give you some touchdowns, seven points. When he said seven, he said, Michael, I'm just a freshman.

He said, Michael, you know what I see when I see you with that 47 on in practice and you be catching them balls, you look like a big 747 catching that thing about to land in the end zone with a perfect landing.

I was like, yeah.

Is that what you said?

I swear, I was like, yeah. Is that what you said? I swear, I was like, yeah. For all of a sudden, that 47 looked crisp again.

Hey, I'm trying

to get a job. If the head coach see me like the 747, I said,

yeah. I was like, okay.

Man, a few years later, we get here and we were having a drink after we did something. I was with Coach. He said, Michael, I can't believe you bought that story.

I said, what story, Coach?

That 47 story.

I'd say you dirty dog, you.

And plus, y'all was in the down stance. You know, Mike, y'all was in the down stance. Y'all didn't stand up wide and split up. Y'all was in the down stance. I was just back at Miami the other day, and we were talking about that. Dude, Mike Rumpnum coming up to me,

because we always argue about who's the best, the 101 team, or the 87 championship team.

Or the 91 championship team.

The 91 championship team, all the championship team. And he was like, boy, you couldn't have got me in no three-point stand." I said, dog, it's impossible to jam a receiver coming up out that three-point stand. It's impossible. It's impossible. So, yeah, I don't know why receivers do it today.

I don't know why they stand up. So, like, if you had, if they had, well, there's just no way. You would have to get down. You got to get down. Because the quarterbacks, look at anybody's quarterbacks. I had to go through Deion Sanders, Daryl Green,

Rod Woodson, Champ Bailey. Aeneas. Aeneas William, and now the other guy just got in, Eric Allen. All of those guys went everywhere I went on the football field, and when they,

they tucked me in at night and handed me the toilet paper when I was sunk and needed to wipe. They went everywhere with you. So I always say, I went through gold jackets to get to my gold rings. And it was a different time back then.

The cornerbacks was real. Why did you tell the Packers not to draft you? Because they had the seventh pick. They ended up taking my brother. I heard, I saw him telling the story. Yeah.

That they were going to draft me. He's right. They were. They called me. Because I was a junior.

Right.

Like I was graduating early. Right. Right? When you were coming out back then, you had to graduate to go to school, go to draft early. But it gave me control over the draft. So if somebody calls me and I didn't want to go, I can decline. I'm going back to school. And that's what I want. I just wanted control. I wanted my,

I was directed towards, you know, somewhere on the West Coast, in New York. I really just wanted to be in Dallas. You know, I always wanted to be in Dallas. So I was trying to work my way. I had saw Bernie Kozar work his way to Cleveland. Yeah. Remember, as a sophomore. It was the supplemental draft.

So I was just trying to, yeah. So when they called, I'm sitting there, we ain't got a dime. It's the seventh pick. It's 17, you got 17 brothers. Right, and they all looking like,

are we rich yet? Are we rich yet? I'm like, no, not yet, not yet, not yet, not yet. All right, all right, stop, back up, back up, all right.

So yeah, they were funny, man. But then I started thinking,

hoo, hoo, hoo, hoo, hoo, hoo,

ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, you know, the weather-wise, I'm coming from Florida, going to Green Bay, and not just weather and temperature.

Weather and- Did you got Chicago? That's outside?

All that, all that, it's just too, no. And Norv Turner, who was with the Rams at the time, had spent that draft with me. Norv, the Rams were gonna draft me at 14, Norv was there with me. They took Aaron Cox.

Yeah, because the Cowboys took me in left.

Yeah.

And Nor was so disappointed. And Nor went back. And then it was so funny. After a couple of years here, Dave Shuler, the office coordinator we had here, he was like, we should trade Michael. And Jimmy was, you know know they were talking about trading me because they come up coming off the knee surgery and

And Jimmy came to me. He said listen The guy pulling the trigger don't think you can do it anymore and he said, uh I've had way more success with you than I've had with him I'm gonna let him go and get you an official coordinator.

Damn.

We're gonna get this thing going. And that's when they brought in Noah.

They brought in Noah. Noah.

Because Noah was at Ernie's Ampeza. At Zampizza.

So everything was bangin' speed up.

I thought I was gonna be with here and Ellen. I thought I was gonna be with, I'm coming off the ACL, right? You know, so my head is like, okay, can I play again? I'm going through this, I ain't never been through anything like I went through with ACL. That took me through something. I don't know if I can play.

He take us out in March. He said, let's go. I want you to see you run this bang eight. I said, what's a bang eight? He said, four steps, hit that one leg, I'm gonna put it on you right there. I said, okay, let's go on it. You know, we go out. We ran the first two routes.

He said, boy, I don't know what they talking about. That's plenty of speed for me. You gotta make sure you catch that bang eight. Yeah, is it gonna be as safe as it is? Let's get it, bro. I mean, then he started putting the game plan together, man. God's blessing for all of us. He put Emmett in the right place to win. He put Troy in the right place to win.

And that just made it great. And it was so funny that he spent, he was with me on the drive. They tried to get me before. So it all worked out. It definitely worked out.

I hear you talking about, and the America's team, the Gambler and the Cowboys. You talk about how difficult that first Super Bowl was. There's all the ones that was the toughest to win. Yeah. Why was that one so tough?

And it was the most gratifying to us. Yes. Because it's right up against all the hard work. It's right up against the three and 13 my first year, the one and 15 my second year. And it's the turn. I'm coming from Miami and I know what it takes to win.

And I'm seeing what I ... You know I used to lose it. Right. And I'm like, dang, what's going on, man? And I got here. I thought, this is it. This is the best right here, you know what I mean?

But then you get in the league, you find out some of these jokers about money, it ain't about being the best. And I was like, dude, I couldn't take that. Like right now, I was talking about Emmett, because I talked with him today, and I was like, man, Jerry knew. I couldn't hold out.

I couldn't hold out. As long as I have held out or stayed away was the wins before the first game, I gotta go play. You know, I gotta go play.

You know, it's just mentality. But they know that too though. Yeah, they know that.

They know you gotta use that. They don't use that against you. Use it against me. He'll be here. Don't even worry about my— Right, right, right, right. But I wasn't planning on going nowhere either. Because remember now, I had my plan from the jump street that I was—I knew I'm going to have some back end. I was making sure my back end going to be good.

I'm going to be right here. You know what I'm saying? And that's what you got to consider that. Michael has to consider that you know, Michael You you get opportunity right now. You're gonna get the highest pay guarantee all those things everybody said well, don't are you gonna risk a million dollars here two million dollars a year here and And you got another hundred million dollar podcast

That's only gonna be a hundred million dollar pocket if you would be out right? It's not a hundred million dollar pocket if you were the Cowboys. Right. It's not a hundred million dollar podcast if you were somebody else. True. So the whole gathering, Micah has to see you're a whole, you ain't no businessman, you're a whole business man and make sure all of your entities up under that umbrella coverage is going to be taken care of.

And that podcast has to have a star on it. That you mentioned that. Have you talked to Micah about that? Like one minute, like Micah, what can't you do with 41, 42, 43 million that you could only do with 46 million? Yeah, but that's logic and that's our world.

That's our world. Their world is not the world of logic like that. It's social media. The world going to know. I'm only making 41 and he making 43. And I'm not saying mine like this, but this is their generation. This is why when we're disappointed, we're going to screw up and all of them do it. Everyone in this generation.

We're disappointed, we're team, we take everything off. Everything with the Cowboys, the Cowboys related or? Right, right, right, everything, oh man. It's like a break up with your girlfriend.

You take everything, all the pictures that you got, we'll go back by five years,

you going back and raising everything.

Where does that come from? I ain't taking all my money off shit. Do you understand what I'm saying? I ain't taking all my money off net. That's what I'm telling y'all. So I don't know where you get that from. So that's what's the difference. Like, do you know what I mean?

It ain't going to matter. And a lot of people won't even see it. It'll just be somewhere in the office. Sometimes somebody say, bring it up. But it won't be every day you got to hear everybody's opinion right that you took a million dollars less Did you see what's going on with Roger Jackson Roger Jackson? I saw him the other night after he did that me. I'm tired of everybody messing with me. I'm tired of calling him

What are you who you mad at these are the people you're inviting you streaming you yes, you're streaming What are you doing? You're streaming, you begging these people to come in and then you don't like what they say and you wanna go break another dude's face because that's where that is. Have you ever thought about, Mike, what it would have been like to play?

You're a playmaker, you're playing for the Cowboys at its apex and there's this thing called social media. Yeah. Have you ever thought about that? But just yeah, yeah, I did I I would tell somebody this story man I did the EA Sports when he first brought in the legends EA Sports I did the appearance and I was speaking at EA Sports conference and and we were talking about Social media and all that. I said said listen I I told him I was

scared I said I would be scared to live in today's and play in today's time I couldn't make it I couldn't make it with the news that he left.

God damn. I ain't got no chance.

I ain't got no chance.

Zero.

So I'm like, hey, man. With all these camera phones? With the camera phone number? I got to stay playing, boy. I got to stay playing. Keep me playing.

I'm telling you. And you know what, Shannon? I know that. I know what's real, you know what I mean? I know what's real. I know what's good for me now. I know what's not good for me now. Like, keep me busy, it's good. The report is that you talked to Travis Kelce.

You had a conversation with Travis Kelce because he was trying to do something that you guys were trying to do, which is three-peat. Nobody's ever done the three-peat. And I believe, and we're going to talk about this after you answer this question, about you believe that you guys, if you'd have kept Junior, you believe you would have three-peated. You believe you, but what did you, what info, what did you tell Kelsey how to approach the season going to the three-peat once they make it through the gauntlet, get through the playoffs and get to the Super Bowl. What did you share with him? Man, first thing I said, man, was, cause then he asked, first thing you go through

is the disappointment of not getting it done. And that's what I was talking to my guys at Miami about even yesterday. Like, dude, I don't know how other people, how are they gonna have peace at the end of it all? I mean, I've won championships on just about all levels,

everywhere, and I still... It's the ones that you don't win that eat you. It's not the one that you win. I should have gone at that ball. I should have jumped up, and Deion, it would have definitely clarified

the passing of Fenix. But I'm thinking, if I can just drop it, if I wait, it'll drop right by him. And it dropped by him, and I'm gonna stretch the thing out, and I'm gonna get that game winner.

I wanted to be the hero. All I had to do was get that ball, and now we're down four. And I cannot let that go. I can't let it go. So you know, man, yeah, man, that's just ... The ones that get away, it's something that

you deal with and live with all the time. But does the three-peat change how people look at Michael Irvin? Well-

Or how we see the Cowboys?

It changed how Michael Irvin would have looked at Michael Irvin? Well, it seems that Michael Irvin would have looked at Michael. And let me tell you that, think about it now. Now, when you go and get what Kansas City has done, I don't know what I'm going to do with my mind. Yes, it makes it more important. I regret it more that I didn't get it when Kansas City,

or when New England had their run. You see, now because you want to solidify yours.

I was worried about y'all.

I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa.

Well, we didn't have no chance.

John retired.

Right, right, right, right.

He got hurt.

John didn't want to retire. I said, get your old butt out of there. Stop messing around. I had to worry about y'all right after that. No, they don't, man. I don't care what they say. I want everybody to have great, do great, but I just want to leave me a little mark up there. Something, man.

They leave me something up there. At least something that they can remember me by. Emmitt, it's Emmitt. Like Emmitt, he's all-time leading rusher. Nobody's going to get that record. No, they don't run the ball like that. they'll get that record. I just want something to leave up there for me. Right. Have the Chiefs taken over America's team?

Because you see what happened yesterday. Kelsey and Taylor, they get mad. They the new America team. They done took over from y'all, Mike. I ain't gonna go that far.

I'm going that far.

I won't say it. I ain't gonna say they America's team, but they are, those two is America's dream couple. I'll give her that. Those two right now, America's dream. And I'm gonna tell you, and say, listen, I've said this openly, Travis Kelsey,

I love him more than anybody in the national football. He's amazing. That's my dude. That's my dude. He is genuine, he real. That's my dude, man.

And let me tell you why this is my dude. You know, we were at one of those Pro Bowls. I was coaching the Pro Bowl, you know, and that was one of his early Pro Bowls. And he was coming to me, he said, man, you got to draft me. You got to draft me. Don't leave me out there because he's a worthy, younger guy. He said, you can't leave me out there. They're going to let you down. You know, you go to draft him. We leaving me out here. And I did draft him. I did draft him.

But he was so good. And my son played tight end. My son plays tight end. But he was, man, he was so good with my son. And he didn't have to be, you know. And he really took care of him.

I was like, now that's a different dude. I just telling him, man, listen, don't let this get by you because you'll regret it no matter what you do. You're going to think about it all your life. And they're going to think about it because they got thumped. They got thumped. Because they weren't even close. They were not even close. And they're going to think about it. But yeah, yeah, man, he

was ... And I love that. Think about it. he just won back to back. That's what we were talking about before. That's the kind of guy you know, no matter what he do, he gonna win. He's going to win. And certainly now, you gotta take it.

He won.

He won.

Oh, the fight's over. The fight is over. Call it a career. Call it a career. When you got that signing bonus, what was the first thing you did? That cowboy, were they? That first one?

Yeah.

Oh my God.

Oh my God.

It came from Brookville, Florida. Brookville, Florida, not Brooksville. I'm from Fort Lauderdale, but Brookville where everybody was broke. You know, dude, I was young too, man. I was crazy, man.

I didn't know anything. I first, I bought me a house, dude. I was so crazy. I don't own a lot of houses, but I remember my first house I bought, right? They were showing me all these houses, big houses. I said, what's that one over there? They said, well, okay, let's go look at it. And I bought that house because it had fully, it had the pool and everything,

but it had a eight feet gate. Yeah, all I knew is I don't want nobody to see me in the pool with what I'm doing. That was the parameter that I needed to buy my first house. You already know you're gonna be coming.

Right, right, right. So I know I'm coming in. And then let me tell you what I did. With that first check, let me get the card. Give me one of the cards. That's my check right there, y'all.

That check, that million dollar check, I left that right there on the table, right in my room. So soon as they walked in, they said,

that's your check?

And started just. Oh. Oh.

Oh.

Oh. Big man.

How you doing?

How you doing? I'm very fine. They just. I said, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I had my financial people calling me, telling me, man, send that check. Michael, we're losing. We're losing. I said, what? Y'all tripping, what? Hey, I'm just, hey, but it's real. It was real. It was just real. Coming in, as you mentioned, coming from a large, large family like yours, even though you got a million dollars, man, when you try to break off brothers and sisters,

man, ain't a whole lot left. You know you got to take care of mom and dad. I think your father passed before you got drafted. You got to take care of mom. You got to take care of brothers and sisters. Mike, that ain't a whole lot left over. But back then, that was a lot of money.

That was a lot of money.

Woo!

We admit it.

No, I'm talking. Wait a minute now. Can you give somebody $2,500? You give somebody $2,500, $5,000? Man, I'm coming off, we coming off. This ain't coming from where they come. These dudes now, these kids now, they got NIL, dude. I was getting $20 a weekend and mom took the first 15. Joking, left me with five, dude.

Coming from $5 a weekend to getting them. I left that check right there. I was gonna get every bit of that check. So yeah, now here's the kicker. To all of us that we have to get to, and people have to understand, making money is one thing,

how you let it go is as important. So especially us, too, especially us, because we know there's so many people holding on to the caboose that you got to bring along on this train. It's never just us. Right. It's never just Mike.

It wasn't just Mike. It's never just, yeah, you know, I got grandma, I got, you know, counting on me. And it took me through that first contract to figure out and get the understanding of financial literacy enough to know how to best handle that. So to get everything and put everything into a trust. So my whole family into the trust. So now when I'm handing you money, I'm handing you money,

and I'm going to send you tax papers. So we're handing you money now at your tax bracket instead of me handing you money at my tax bracket. So if I give you a million dollars, I gotta make a mil seven at my bracket to give you a mil, you know what I'm saying?

So now we gotta learn to do that. Throw everybody in your trust. I'm gonna, we in the Irving family dynasty skipping trust. We ain't never paying the government nothing. When we leave town, we ain't giving you nothing. And when I send money to my mom, who, you know, when she got rest of her soul, she was

like, I'm not paying at my tax bracket. These are the things that we have to learn to make sure we stay up. Why were you so forthcoming in the documentary? A lot of the stuff you and I had talked about, and I was like, when I found out the documentary was coming out, I was thinking to myself, how forthcoming is Michael going to be? Is he going to be as forthcoming as he is when he's with me and him talking? Or is or he gonna put that on front of the camera.

And I'm gonna be straight, because you know you my boy to the heart, man. You're my boy to the heart. And even when you call me first and talk about all the things, you tell me, I want you to do this with me.

I want you to do, I was like, oh, damn, Shannon. I don't know. Man, I'm scared, because listen, you guys, you're talking, we're watching your show, your nightcap stuff, you gotta be talking about some stuff. And this is what I was afraid of. And I said, okay, like listen, here's the problem now. I got some real dead bodies out here.

And I don't need nobody coming up out the grave,

you talking about me? Undertaker.

You know what I mean? Nobody coming up out the grave, he talking about me. Undertaker. Yeah, he talking about the Undertaker. I don't need all these grave sites raised and back up. When I say, yeah, well, I was over here with this. Well, I don't need them girls coming up to my house.

Yeah, I saw that check when he was your age.

No, since you're old, my down is too late now. But that's the kind of thing. So I was worried about that. But the reality is, man, if you don't share, people will receive it and put their thing on it. You know what I mean? And not get it in the way that you got it.

Like we were talking about, a lot of the things we did, White House, all that stuff, you can think about the other side of it, the women and all of that stuff. But it was also team building and team bonding. And that's what we did.

So talking about it and getting the stories out the correct way, it's palatable now. It's palatable now. It wasn't palatable back then. They won't take it now. But these kids, they got Love Island,

everybody doing everything with everybody. Hey, that ain't take it now. But these kids, they got Love Island, everybody doing everything with everybody. Hey, that ain't nothing I did. So we good. At the time, I mean, you was like, man, you know what, I think this would be a good idea. You know, let's get a spot right across from practice.

It's like anything else, it grew to that. It grew to that. You know, we had cuz you think about the white house in the hotel, right? The White House was that that was the was the endgame this thing grew it started out You know Hotels, then we had an apartment and then we went to the house

You know what I mean? So so at each spot there were there were issues like you know You know what happened at the hotel.

You know, the hotel.

The doors are nets and the people came. Right, and they set me up at the hotel. You know, I'm so dumb. I got, the girls get in the room. They got the room under their name. I'm thinking I'm being slick,

but I won't put down the Benzos. And they got Playmaker written all on them. I'm still driving, parking them all. What good is doing that if I'm gonna pull up in here in the Benz with Playmaker flags?

Playmaker, Playmaker.

So it's just because you stupid. You don't know. Right. So it went from the hotel, man, how much money we spending on the hotel? Right.

Let's just get an apartment. And then we got an apartment, and I had an apartment, and then you bring a few girls over to the apartment, and then things ain't going right with all the girls, and they over there making all these noise and screaming, ah, what's going on? They kicking in the window.

I said, maybe we shouldn't be in an apartment building. So then we finally got a house to try to move that thing. Well, Jerry finally found out. Leon Lett called me. Dude, I'll never forget it. And New Jack City hadn't been out too long. We had just, I had just seen New Jack City.

And Cat called me. He said, Michael, I'll never forget. I was headed to the campus. He said, Michael, we've been infiltrated. He said, man, I'm telling you right now, shut down the White House.

Huh? Negro, this ain't no movie.

Hey, ain't shut down the Carter.

Shut down the Carter. I ain't shut down the Carter.

Catch him, I'm telling you, Mike, I'm telling you. And about two weeks later, I'm in meetings, and Jerry called me, and it's Wednesday, it's installed. You know, I want to be in here. Like, wait a minute, dude. We're going over to plays.

And they'd peak in the door, Jerry. I said, no, I'll tell him in a minute, in a minute, we're installed. I gotta make sure he put it in the right place. Right now, he said no. I'm gonna see you right now. I said we can't wait. He said right

You know, so I go and he asked me about he said Michael the story breaking

About some house y'all got over here somewhere a white house. I said, oh

Shit, I thought about kid. I said I should have shut down

Man he asked me about it. Who Do you know who dimed it out?

Yes, I do.

I know, well, a few people dimed it out. But yeah, yeah, we know. We know the guy that. When he asked me, though, I ain't got no answer. Jerry would tell the story. He said, I came in, I'm sitting there, and he said, just be honest with me. You know I'm gonna be with you.

I'll fight for you as long as you're honest. And I thought about it, and I just told him, I said, boss, we were trying to do the wrong thing the right way. I said, we were trying to do the wrong thing the right way. I thought through it, I thought through it,

but it just, you know, here again, we start, we're going to park at the complex and bring over one car. So all the cars, we went out with a whole bunch of cars. We already had the hotel, we got all our cars identified. So we'll park at the complex and come over here in one car. And then, you know, as you get more and more loose with that, and you're out drinking, you're coming to the club, pretty soon we had a whole parking lot out there.

And that really gave us away. Them old people that were living next to us said we were making too much noise. That's what they were saying. So, yeah, but yeah, it was crazy times. Do you remember the first time

you were introduced to drugs? You know, it's funny, it's so funny. When I went through the thing here at the hotel, Jerry set up a meeting with the district attorney, named Mike Gillette. It's a private meeting. We met to talk about the case.

I said to him, I said, Jerry said, man, listen, this is, let's just get this case out the way so we can get back on the field. I need you to set up, I need you to go talk with him and just be honest with him, be straight with him and let's see if we can get this thing.

Because right now it just seems like he's after you.

He's after you.

I said, okay. Now, you guys got to understand, now, that night in the hotel when all of this went down, when the police came, they arrested the girl. I went home. I went home. Now, then they hired this new guy, Mike Gillette, they hired this new district attorney, three, four months later.

And he went back. Now we're into getting ready to work for the season. He went back and looked at the case and opened it up. Right, OK. And opened up the case. He reopened it.

He reopened all of it. He said, well, because I didn't have any standings. You got to have standings. That means the room was not in my name. Right. The room was in her name. They found the things with her. So they said, okay, we can just take her,

or, and let you go if she says it's hers. And she says they're mine. She's a good girl, she's a good girl. And that hurts me too, to be, listen, she really was a good girl. And what happened with her was just not right.

You know, cause I really liked her. She was a good girl. She wasn't a dancer. I had met her at a club. But, you know, they put her out as a prostitute. It was just wrong.

Because she was, I had, before we went to the Super Bowl, I had a feeling. Was this the first Super Bowl or the second Super Bowl? No, before we went to the second Super Bowl.

Okay. Was this the first Super Bowl or the second Super Bowl? No, before we went to the second Super Bowl.

No, this happened when we got back from the third Super Bowl. This happened when we got back from the third Super Bowl. Before we went to Super Bowl, the third Super Bowl, you know, you get all them tickets. Yeah, they used to give you boatload of tickets. They used to give you about 30 tickets back then, Mike.

They used to give you about 30 tickets back then. They cut it down. Yeah, yeah, they cut it way down. But they know you get them 30 tickets and them people out there waiting, they'll give you three, four, $5,000 a ticket. Boy, I had about a hundred on me. We were hanging around.

I said, hey, listen, I pull up like a night. I said, hey, go get an apartment. Because when I come back, I do not want to come back to these hotels. Go get an apartment. And she was like, I don't want to take your money like that. I was like, no, no, you're not taking my money. Go get an apartment.

Because we don't want to be in here. And I come back, and then when I get back after, I go, I want to see her.

I go see her, and I go, I want to see her, I go see her,

and I ask her, she came back, she gives me back the money. I said, what did you do, what are you doing? I don't want to be like that, you know? So she was a real good girl. And then all of this goes down, you know? So it made me feel extra bad.

Yeah, it made me feel extra bad for her, man, because she didn't deserve it. But when I was dealing with Mike Gillette, and Jerry asked me to go meet with him, and she took it. She took it. She took it. She took it so I could go home. And I always respect her for that. And she's just one of the good people.

But he had me in a private meeting.

And you and him?

Me and Gillette. Me and the distributor. Me and the distributor, me and him. Private meeting, and this joker sits down with me, man, and he says, he says, I said, Mr. Gillette, I'm gonna tell you what happened, I'll tell you the truth.

I said, now, I got off an airplane, because I had an autograph session, so, and I came to the hotel. You have a girl claiming that those are hers. I said, now, I'm not telling you I've never brought drugs to the hotel.

I'm just telling you this time. That night I didn't. I didn't bring the drugs to the hotel. You know, trying to be honest and trying to be straight. I said, I'm trying to be honest. I'm being straight with you.

His exact words was to me. And he jumped in early, he says, let me tell you what I think. He said, first of all, the truth is what I make it. And you'll find that when we get in the courtroom. And then he told me, I promise you, he said to me, he said, you know, I personally think you're a piece of shit. And you're using your fame to take

advantage of these poor white women, the white girls, and I'm going to put you away. He said, his exact words were, I'm going to fillet you like a fish and leave you in that alley. I was like, oh, oh, oh. Now all of Fort Lauderdale is coming up out of me. Now you, you, you, you, you, you, you, he was talking. I was trying to. You tried to bite him there. You're like, okay, I just got to, I got to run. But I do understand.

It was my first case. This was my first offense. So I just, then, then, then it got south after that. It got south. I said, let me tell you somebody. You look short. I said, I mean, that's my first offense. I said, you can do what you want to do,

but you can't give me any time. You give me probation. Somebody gonna pay me millions to catch the football because I know how to do that. And you're gonna be down here broke. He said, well, I'm gonna show you tomorrow

when I have them cameras and everything here. I said, okay, I'm going to show you tomorrow when I have them cameras and everything here. I said, OK. I'm going to show you, too. That's why I wore the mink coat. How the f- you wore mink coat? That's why I wore the mink.

In Dallas, Texas. It was 90 degrees. You got on a full mink. You got on a full mink. Full mink with Versace glasses, and that's all they talked about. You see, that's all they talked about. He thought he was gonna get words in. He wanted, and he was trying to say, I introduced him.

I want, he said, you are taking advantage of you. I wanted to say, what do you mean?

They gave me drugs. I didn't even know, they did it to me.

I was here. I was innocent. Right, I was the one innocent. They started this. What are you saying? So yeah, man, that was it. And I remember the two girls, the two girls that, yeah, here.

I don't want to call their names, but I remember them. So did you do drugs in high school? Did you do drugs in college? No, no. And I never did any drugs during the season. That's what I was telling.

Earlier when we were talking about it, I could do, I don't know, I had it. Because we played until February. I'm in the Super Bowl, Super Bowl ends in February. I would say, Jimmy said, let's get away. I had about a month in there. This happened March 4th.

March 4th, month. My birthday, March 5th. I always had that one last hurrah, hurrah, hurrah. And then I'm training. And then I'm training, and then I'm going, and I don't, you know, and it goes.

And I'm thinking, I used to be looking at people like, man, I can't understand why y'all have problems stopping. Why can't you just stop? Right. You know, because I could just stop and go play ball and not worry about it. But after I retired, I realized, okay, I ain't as strong as I thought. It wasn't that I was strong. I was just switching addictions. Right.

You know what I mean?

You had football.

I had football, right? You had something to do to replace. You hit my mind, right. And if I had a real good month, I'm going to work out real hard because that's the yin and the yang. That's just how I train my own head. So yeah, I'm like, I'm going to have fun. After that birthday, because we always start training.

Yeah. Bottom of the season. Second week in March. Second week in March. So it worked out for me. That's what I thought worked out for me anyway.

It's so funny though. That night I went to the hotel, I promise you dude, after already trying to get Angela to get a hotel room and everything, I remember driving to that hotel that day and I swear to you, as God is my witness on my mother and father's grave, as simply as I'm talking to you, God said, don't go to that hotel. I still, I think on this every day, I swear to you,

as simply as I'm talking. He said, do not go. And I went.

Yep.

And I went. And he must have set me up before. That's why I said, that's a good apartment. You know what I mean? We didn't, it just did not, you know. But yeah, as I said to you, I guess, yeah.

I wish that never would have happened. Man, I mean, not that what I was doing, you know, I ain't gonna say I wish I never did that, cause you know, that was what it is. I was young. We were just out there.

But I just wish, because it changed things. You know, it changes things. It just changes things. Your cowboy team were never the same, right? I was never the same. I was never the same.

And it just felt like, well, it it wasn't the same. You couldn't lead the same as Fella, you know what I mean? Because people looked at you differently. Yeah, yeah. Well, you felt they looked at you differently. They're different. Maybe they didn't.

And that changes everything. And it changes everything. Because you feel that. You feel it like, dang, you know? So I was never the same. I was never the battery. You was the energizer. You were the receiver, one of the very few receivers

that led a team. When you got a Gold Jacket quarterback, you got a Gold Jacket running back, you've got the players on the defense, you got Haley, Gold Jacket, you got Tyme, Gold Jacket, you've got those guys, but you're that battery.

That was rare. How were you, they might've not knew to the extent, but they knew you liked to get down, Mike. How were you able to do what you did over here,

but get on the field, be first in the sprints, and lead?

Because we were having fun. It's not like I'm over here in the corner with some blip-blip-blip going, you know what I mean? This was, all of this stuff gets introduced in the process of the womanizing and chasing and all of that stuff.

But I didn't see it as, oh, you got an issue. And so we're all having a good time for this month. And then we get back to training. And the guys, we were all having a good time. We had a month off and we got back to training. I never saw it as a problem. Now, once that thing went down, no tell, everybody, it's almost like you got drugs. I'm like, okay. You can see I had that kind of a drug problem. I didn't know I had a drug problem until after I retired.

After I retired, and then I was like, okay, you know what? I had a good time. That's it. Let me get back in shape.

I said, That's it. Let me get back get back in shape. I

Said that's it. This will be last weekend I'm start focusing getting back works hard putting out the career together and and then you know You go out another day and you're back out there. He said wait a minute. This is the last week So I was about three or four last weekend It's about three or four months. He right right and you were like, whoa This is what they've been going through. Oh, you know.

I never knew that, right?

I never knew that side. Cause once I had football, man, I ain't got time for that right now. I gotta get ready. I gotta go chase Jay Rice. But, but yeah, so, so it got different for me then.

Then I realized, okay. Okay, and and that's when that's when I started I had to start searching more answers about me Yes, trying to find out things about me since I didn't have football to keep me off of the streets You said that that situation taught you a lot about you is that? The one time but what about the other hundred times that I was out doing? Being playmaker? Right, right, right.

Right. You're talking about, what are you talking about, like getting caught that one time? The one time.

I got caught.

And the problem is, here's what you try to do, what you do. You try to justify, all right, all right, all right. Many times I didn't get called. Even though I don't think I did so well, I'll mark it up, chalk it up, or whatever. That kind of thing. But I look back and I'm like, I was young. I was young.

I was young, we were having fun, we were on top of the world. You were like the gladiators or the warriors. You go win and you get the prize. You keep having fun. People always always say, like, you know, you have fun doing anything. It's like anything, drinking, smoking,

you're just having fun having fun. Right. When does it become a problem? When it becomes too fun and you don't know how to start having that fun. Or when you don't have something else

to turn your attention to. You also mentioned the situation, you had just gone through that, and the judge gave you probation, and said, look, Mr. Irvin, basically you say, I'm paraphrasing, you're getting a reprieve,

but don't come back before me. Don't come back. And then right before that, there you go, you get into a scuffle with a teammate about a haircut. Yeah. Did you go home like, Lord, I'm going to jail? Yeah. Lord, you got me out of this situation

and I promise you, Lord, I say, Lord, if you get me out of this, I promise you

I won't do this again.

Were you in that room when I was saying that, boy? You was really, boy, hard, boy. You joking, you Hey, you saw it. Hey, you saw it. That first day, that first day I went to court, what? Walked in there bad like I don't know what. Full link, mean, Versace, boy, after them folks had done put me through the wringer.

Man, a couple weeks later, I'm coming up in that court, blue suit, all in.

No!

Please just let me out of this, man. God, all right, we're done, boy. I was done. With Manny, I was like, I ain't never coming back here again. And then that situation at training camp happens with Everett MacGyver, man, and everybody. And this is why you asked me earlier

why you tell the story. Everybody comes in. I hear this one guy going around telling the story. It's not like I came up, grabbed the seals, and slice them out of your throat. We had been out drinking. We had been out early,

because we got off early. We had to get haircuts and get meetings later. We had been out drinking. And MacGyver was the new guy in. And I always rig and get on my linemen, because I wanted them to be tough. Biggie came in, I would be getting Bigfella.

What's your plans, Bigfella? What are you trying to do? I gotta take care of my mama. So then I start, listen, Bigfella, because you ain't gonna win without the linemen. I said, listen, Bigfella,

when you hear Troy say, blue 18, blue 18, shit, you look up and you look at that joker across from you and you say, you trying to stop me from feeding my mama. And then you say, Hut, and you tear him. You know, I'm setting him up, him, Larry, all of this. And Everett was the new guy.

Man, I'm working and we messing with Everett, we messing with Everett. And Biggie and the guys, they started messing with him. You can't let that little receiver mess. Dude, dude, I'm like, come on, Everett, stop playing, man. Come on, this is how we do it. This is how we do it. This is the order of this team. It's with everything. We have taping angles. You got to follow this. Now, come on, let's follow this. And everybody,

over here, could we, just we were trying to get ... Okay. And then Eric, because we had drinks, he'd get up, dude, to be truthful and let people know I was getting my ass kicked. This big old joker was whipping my butt. I mean, this big push, man. I said, hey, man, stop, man.

I said, stop, dog, stop. And he did. And I shouldn't have. It's still not an excuse. I should never have grabbed the scissors. But I was in fight or flight mode, you know what I mean?

And dude, I went back to my room right after that, and there's blood everywhere. Blood all over me. And Big Cat came in. He said, man, they don't know. You know, they don't know. I just said, I barely missed an artery, you know.

And dude, that was as difficult a thing as ever. Because you're in this kind of friends to fight thing going on. And then all of a sudden, Once you come down after that, you realize what you've done. Oh my God, I sat in that room thinking,

Lord, I done killed this man. I'm going to jail. I'm going to jail. They killed this man, and somehow, if he survives, I'm still going to jail, because the judge just told me,

boy, if I see you again, I promise I'm going to give you 25 years. You know? And yeah, Everett, me and Everett talked after that, man. And I shared then, and I'll never forget that. And I thank him again today, and I apologize to him again today on it, you know?

Because I've been thinking about it lately, because you watch a documentary, you start thinking about, oh my God. You relive all those moments all over again. All those moments, man. And I just, he said to me, when he said that to me, he said, Michael, you know, he said,

I know the severity of what would happen if the truth got out. And he said, man, I don't want to take you away from your kids like you always took, almost took me away from mine. Dude, that was, that was. Did you break down? Yeah. Yeah, no doubt.

Yeah. Because I didn't expect him to do that in my own mind. Cause at that moment, he showed you more grace and mercy than you showed him. He showed me grace.

He showed me grace, yeah. And I wouldn't be here without it. I would not have been here. I wouldn't be here without it, you know? So, so yeah, I tell you, man, I, again, I apologized to him a million times, you know.

Did you have a situation in Miami? Did you get in a fight with somebody at Miami?

Yeah, I got in fights at Miami. Yeah, Jimmy was telling first day

Are you just getting school, right? I know I

Don't know man. I but I told these guys cuz I know I said, oh my god, so funny I don't mind doing freshman stuff guys, but Listen, man, we got nothing man. I'm here to try to get my family somewhere. And I was saying this, I know, you know, it's so funny. I was just saying, come on, man, I just gotta get my family. So we were playing these games with me. This was on the training table the first day.

The first day, you know, the guys are sitting there, freshmen's gotta eat last. Yeah. The protocol, that's the rule. Protocol, protocol. I'll try to wait, I'll try to wait. And then, so they kept making us wait. And then I kept saying, let me go, let me go.

He said, first, shut up and get back.

I said, okay. And then, and then the Joker went and picked the food that I wanted. This was my first time seeing the training table. I'm coming from the ghetto. Yes! Fort Lauderdale, dude. We ain't never seen no food like that.

No abundance of food like that.

And see, they don't, they didn't think about it. It's like, y'all see this all the time, you know. Remember, Howard, Baird just gave Howard Snellerberger the okay to go in the ghettos and get us. Yes. And I was like, oh my God, look at this. And yeah, after they messed with us and messed with the freshmen, sit down, eat last.

Then that Joker, I snuck by him and picked out a steak and they pushed me and put me back. And then after he finally went, he took my steak. Man, I cracked that joke over the head, man. With the tray and started whooping his butt. Hey, Jimmy called me in the office.

I said, this is Joe Goldfinger sending me home. I just got here. I just got here. Right? And then a couple weeks later, we're freshmen's working at a freshmen's workout, right? And we get in the music box. Then the linebacker come in.

Freshmen, shut up. Y'all don't play, and they change the music. I said, what, we get to work out for 10 more minutes. Right. And then you guys come in.

Turn this music.

Make it put in. I said, but that's not putting us to sleep. It's our music. Freshman year? I said, dude, this is our time, dude. I got 10 more minutes.

10 more minutes, you take over.

And he pushed me. Boom, pushed me down this way. I said, these jokes gonna keep messing with me. So, then we go upstairs in the big meeting room.

Yeah.

And Jimmy calls a meeting and he says, I can't believe this. Michael, get down here right now. And he called the player and he said, I told you, we can't be fighting each other. Stop it right now.

We're gonna shake hands right here in front of everybody

right now.

I'm fresh out of the ghetto. I ain't got, I'm a little rough around the edges. Right, I'm fresh up out of that ghetto. So in front of the team, he said, I want y'all to shake hands right now. This is a true story, too. I said, I'm on fire.

I'm on fire from what that joker did, man. I reached out my left hand, and he reached out his left. I grabbed him. Whop! And he reached out his left, I grabbed him. And he was, you know, and man, and then I hit him again. And Coach was like, listen, boy, listen.

Listen, let me tell you something right now.

Lord have mercy. I know you had it hard. We here now. We trying to help you get out. You can't be fighting us. That was it, man.

And then he said, look at him, he said, you sure you want to play football?

You ever thought about boxing?

I'm not kidding, I'm joking.

He asked me that, it's me.

I said, no, Coach, I want to play football. I'm just kidding, I ain't joking. He asked me that, it's me. I said, no, Coach, I wanna play football. I'm playing football. But to all of that, those situations, never in my guy situation. After I retired, I had to figure out why, why, why, why. Did you fight with your, because you're like,

of 17, you're like 15 or 16, right? I've been fighting all my life So you you had to fight up you like, you know what I ain't taking nothing else like nobody else I don't took it off of them for 18 19 years Yeah, it stops here today And then I had to go study and learn and if you go through it now

You'll tell you in a mother's third trimester, if she is stressed, pressured, her body releases cortisol that goes to the brain of the baby to tell the baby to prepare for fight or flight. In this child, you will have a smaller cortex, bigger mammalian, that's the base. So your fight or flight state, you're more apt to fight than reason. I'm more apt to fight than reason.

It serves me well on the football field. So you come up, but off the football field. Yeah, you're such a small time on the football field.

Right, right, right. And that's what I said, I had to football. Yeah, you're such a small time on the foot right right, right?

And that's what I said. I had to learn do joke stop They tell you understanding and studying is not a 75% to beating it So now even when I'm riding and somebody comes by and cut me off Hey, I said, that's just your reptilian brain. Yeah, calm it down. Yes, you know brawler skills, you know, but you gotta calm it down You gotta know calm it down right now So, you know

I I had to study that figure it out learn it and try it so I can try to get through this thing without get Through this thing called life without football Had you had you known what you know now back then? Are you still the same Michael Irving? Oh, man. Because that served you well, like you said, in playing football.

Now you go get the help, the treatment that you need to be able to reason. Right, right, right, right. Do I get there? You know, that's a great question. That's a great question. You know, because the fight in me was the fight here, the fight here.

But all these other fights away from here, they were problematic. They were problematic. You know, so coming up the way I came up, I was like, yeah, I need that come up. I need that come up. I just need to learn what I know now sooner. You see what I'm saying? So I could have stopped a lot of the stuff. Understanding that's just your reptilian brain. Just calm it down. You're not on the field right now. Be reasonable. So from where you grew up, how you grew up, high school, feel like you always got to fight,

you get the dollars, and Mike, you got everything. You got everything. And I tell people at the time, no matter how much you have, you don't think about what you got. You just think about somebody trying to take advantage of you. Somebody trying to, what we say, you trying to punk me.

Oh, you think because, oh, you bigger than me, you go, nah, it ain't going to work like

that.

Because you're not living in your now, you're still dealing with your yesterday. Yes. You see it in the mirror. Yes. You're like, and you asked me about finances. That's what we do in finances. We buy out of our pain.

We don't think about our purpose. Our purpose is what we're going to do ahead of us. Our pain is what's behind us. So now you get that $5 million signing bonus and what do you do? You go spend $2 million on a house. You go spend another million on your mom's house. You go spend some money on cars.

Now the $5 million is down to $1 million. And you ain't paid no taxes. And you say to yourself, that's all right, though. I paid mine. I bought it. I paid it all.

Ain't no ... Because you're dealing with the pain of watching your mom lose her house, and watching your cousin lose their house. So now you made a stupid financial decision by buying it outright when you should have borrowed and you know what I mean?

Bargain the money that you got.

And left that principal there and used the interest on that to help pay down. You see what I mean? Yes, absolutely. But we do it out of our yesterday, not thinking about our tomorrow. So yeah, you got to be careful Dealing in your pain and that's what I was doing a lot of times Even when I was making it I was still dealing in my pain the trauma from yesterday. I'll show up today

Yeah, and that's all of us You get through that The 96 season you get suspended. I think you got suspended the first five games in 96 five games. Yeah I remember getting that letter from Paul Tagliabue saying, you know, you have enjoyed the fame and notoriety of playing for one of the biggest and well-known franchise in this league, the Dallas Cowboys.

And for that, we think we should, for that, we should give you an extra game. So I got five instead of the four.

Right.

I was like, well, damn. Yeah, well, all right, wait a minute, wait a minute.

Right, right.

I thought the league was supposed to be about being fair. Being fair, you don't give everybody the same thing, but he was like, no, we're gonna give you one extra. So yeah, they gave me a five game vacation that I didn't want, but they gave it to me anyway. They gave it to me.

During that time, I know just how important, because we wired a lot of light, how important the game of football is. And when I can't do it, not from my own volition, something is missing. Not only is it missing, I'm letting my teammates down

because I want my teammates' respect and trust. I want my coaches' trust, I want their respect. I want the fans' appreciation. I got none of that now. Who am I? What actually am I at this very moment when I'm not the playmaker? Right. And you know what, Shannon?

That's why I said I was never the same. When I got back, I was never the same. Because I demanded accountability. And where was I for five games? I cried on the sideline one time because I realized I couldn't get them back. We had just won the Super Bowl and all of that went down at the hotel, man. And after, I wanted to get back to that Super Bowl

and let's get back to a Super Bowl so we can celebrate again and have a whole full celebration in the off season. And just, we could never get back. I was never the same. I was never the same.

But Mike, your accountability was on the field. You caught the passes, you ran the routes, you was in shape. Yeah. But you felt that what you had done off the field somehow had crept, and now I can't be the general to stand up in front of you and says,

this is what I need, because you felt they were gonna question you.

That's not what you did.

Yeah. The authenticity, the authenticity. You know, I studied a lot of things, you know, trying to figure out, trying to figure out me, excuse me, trying to figure out me, you know, because God has blessed me in a great way to have to accomplish great things and do some things and financially and everything. And now that I don't have football, I want to make sure I don't mess that up going forward, you know. I've always said, I mean, no bones

about it, if I wouldn't have had football, I wouldn't have made it. So they did that one time, what would you do if you didn't have football? And I jokingly said it, but I don't know if I was all the way joking. I said I would probably imprison a dad, you know, because I'm going to find and try some way to be successful. And I needed an avenue to try to go do it. And football gave me an avenue.

I was going to do it. And if I didn't have that avenue, I could have gotten in a lot of things to try to get it done. Could you separate, could you ever understand football was what you did, but not who you were? Could you ever separate that? Or was football tied to Michael Irving

and Michael Irving tied to football? I could separate once I got enough to live. You know, to be real. Football was the only way out. There was nobody around you that you saw got out. The only thing you saw on TV was the football. That's how you get out. That's

the way you get out, you know. So that was it. There was no other way for me. There's just no other way. Now I graduated. I got my degree in business, but I got all of them. My mom told me from the day I was born, dude, from the day I was born, I'm the 15th of 17 kids, she said, baby, I was crying when I got pregnant with you. She said, I was like, I can't have another baby. I was in church crying.

And God put his arms around me and said, Fred Knotborough, this is the one that will make your latter days greater than your former days. My mom told me this every day. Every day, I swear, every day of my life. Almost like you were preordained for this.

Every day of my life, she said. I remember her opening the refrigerator with nothing in there. And I don't know how I remember this. Oh, God, it's my witness. I don't know how I remember it. But I remember her saying, look at this. That's all right, baby.

God gave me you. He told me, you're going to make my latter days better than my former days. I was on that mission. I was on that mission. And I kept telling everybody, I'm on this mission. I got to get here.

I got to get here. So football is everything for me. It allowed me the opportunity to provide for my family. Even though I got those business degrees, minor in communications, it wouldn't have given me It allowed me the opportunity to provide for my family. Even though I got those business degrees, minor in communications,

it wouldn't have given me that instant help like football did. 96, that happened, 97, 98, your last season, 99. You in Philly, old vet stadium. Routine play, catch it, get tackle,

but the first thing hit is your head. And it kind of pushes your head, jars your head backwards. Did you know at the time that it happened that something was wrong? I knew, you know, she dizzy. You know, I'm trying to straighten her out.

I'm shaking her up, shaking know, you dizzy. And I'm trying to shake it off. You start getting cobwebs out of you. I'm shaking it up, shaking it off, shaking it off. And then everybody comes out, and I'm sitting, and I'm hearing them tell me, uncross your legs. I think I was like this. Uncross your legs, uncross. And I thought I did.

And they said it a uncle's like, hey. And then I look up, and it was Dion. Dion was there. And he was, whoo, whoo, whoo. That's what made me scared. Seeing Dion pray like that, I was like, oh, just adore him.

Because we called him Head Dings.

Right, yeah.

What's going on? What's going on? And then that's kind of how I got it. Then they gave me this little thing that willed it to me. Let me know if you feel anything. And they said, let me know if you feel.

I said, all right. Like I was waiting on it.

You're waiting.

You're like, OK, well, go ahead. And then when I look up, I see Dion. That's when I knew. That's when I knew. But I found out, right? I didn't know what I had was called stenosis. Stenosis. It's a narrowing of the spinal cord. Narrowing of the spinal cord and the spinal column, and it presses against my spinal cord. And it's so crazy.

They were like, any other hit can be your last. And I'm thinking, what? Like, what are you talking? This was my route. This is the slant route. I live in the slant route. This is it.

This is it.

And that's what, dude, I went and tried to find a doctor that put me back on that field. You know, I wanted to keep playing. And I found one that said, Michael, you've had this forever, you know, you played this long with it, it's a risk, it's a risk, I gotta tell you that, but you can continue playing and I talked to my wife about it and she was like, you know, Michael, there's no way you can do that and I thought, she's right, she's like, because you're gonna, you're gonna

be out there trying to prove to people that you're not thinking about it and you're not scared and you're going to hit somebody trying to prove and something's going to, like you can't put us through that I'm going to be worried, everything. So yeah, I had to finally walk away. But that was hard. That was hard because I knew that's my lifesaver, football.

Football was my life. That was it. Yeah. Because there ain't no senior circuit. In golf, you got a senior circuit. In golf, you got a senior circuit. Right, right, right. Basketball, you got a big three. You got a big three. That's basically your senior circuit. NFL is over.

This is it. And when it's gone, it's gone. It's gone. And what you said, we can't… It's what we did and not who we are, but separating the two when what you did made you who you are, coming from where you came from, was very difficult. It was very difficult, because you know, well, you know, yeah, it gave me the confidence.

It gave me everything. Mike, you came with, you was Coach Landry's last draft class. Last first round, last first round. And those vets, Randy White, Ed Tuttle, there were a lot of guys from the glory days, those 70 Cowboys that were still on the team.

Yeah.

But the story's like, they was telling you you was going too hard at practice. And you went to the gym, you said, Jimmy, I got a list for you. Well, what happened, that first year we went through, dude, I'm coming in from Miami, we're about to win, I just won last championship,

I'm gonna put the Cowboys, I watched all these years with my dad, watching the Cowboys, I can't wait to get here. This is story franchise, and yeah, we get here that first year, and it wasn't like the Randy Weiss,

and those dudes, they're like us, Shannon. Them the dogs. Them ain't the ones you gotta worry about. They had their old ass out there going hard as they can. They wanna hug. But they ain't your 14, your 15.

Right, right, right. But they had other dudes around them. Cause see, when they were carrying the team, they could carry, but now they couldn't carry the team. And the guys they got around them now, when I caught in, I'm trying to get us back here,

I'm crying when we lose. I'm crying, no, this, they're like, come on, Rook, Rook, we don't do that in the NFL. We don't, we don't act like that. Come on, we pick up a check on Tuesday. There were actually dudes saying this I was like, what are y'all talking about man?

What about the game? It's about winning, right?

That's what I work my heart out to get here. Yeah, play you jokers and this how y'all thinking, you know So so yeah joke every dude that talked to me and said that to me I wanted to tell coach Johnson because we you can't win with that. You can't win with that. I don't mind that you want to make money. I want to make money. I don't mind whatever. You want to be famous. You want to meet girls.

Whatever. But we all got to focus on winning, and you can get that. But you can't be sitting here telling me not to hurt. It's okay to lose, Joker. The only way we're going to stop this losing is if it hurts. If it hurts enough. And the more you, and this is what I tell people, Mike. I say the more you put into

something, the more it hurt when it doesn't work out. Right. I say because if it does not hurt when it doesn't work out, you didn't put enough into it. You didn't put enough into it. It's really that simple. And that's the game. That's the game we play. That's the game we play.

And that's why it's not just ... And I tell people this. Our game is not just about skill. It's about will. You can have a better skill set than me and still get your ... But look, every cornerback I named earlier, every last one of them, D'Arcy andl Green, Roberts, think about these, all of them better physically, the physical skill set, that kill me.

A physical skill set, that kill me, that kill me. They all run four ones and four twos. I, best I'm gonna run a four five, but I'm gonna run the first quarter, second quarter, third quarter, fourth quarter, fifth quarter, sixth quarter, and seventh quarter. If we go eight, I'm still running that four-five.

You're going to be at a five, eight out of five flat by now. I'm going to still be running this four-five. You know it from a four-one to a five flat. I'll be that four-five all day long because you're not going to outwork me. You know what I'm saying?

So skill is one thing, but I got here on will, and you gotta commingle those two. That's what makes our sport so unique. We're the only sport that ask a man to move another man against his will.

Yeah, yeah.

Mike, I ain't going nowhere. The hell you say you ain't? You fit to get up out of here? Get up out of here, boy. I don't know what you gonna do next week. You can do something next week.

But you losing this week, bro. You're gonna lose this week. Absolutely. And get used to it. And I tell them, well, get used to it, boy, if you're playing me, because I ain't having it. I ain't having it. When did you know you guys had turned the corner and you had the guys assembled

that could go win a Super Bowl? You know what? That third year we came back, I came back, we just got drafted in it. The first game we played in, all three of us together, was Tampa Bay. I was coming back off a knee surgery,

and I had, at that ACL, I had missed the first four games of that season. It was the fifth game of the season. Yeah, yeah. And I was on injury reserve. You know, missed the rest of the season,

first four games on injury reserve. Came back that fifth game, called a game-winning touchdown, the cornered end zone. First time all three of us was on the field, and we won that game.

And then we won a few more games that year. Big game against the Rams in LA. And then we were like, oh, okay. Now we're turning the corner. Now we're starting to turn the corner. And then that next year, that 90.

The 91 season. That 91 season, we were different. That's the year Emmett and I, we both won receiver and running back of the year. We went off. And from there on, it was over it was over

Once you get a taste of what you win the Super Bowl cuz nobody Everybody thought it was gonna be you gonna win the 93 C. Right, right, but you win the 92 C. So will you yeah, dude But see that's what but once you had gone through that 315 at 3 and 13 that 1 in 15 And now we're sitting in San Francisco. They thought both. San Francisco, they were like, I don't know if they beat San Francisco experience, and

they don't have experience to beat Buffalo in the Super Bowl. Man, what do, that San Francisco game, I don't care. There was no way on God's green earth we were losing that game. I told, I tell people all the time I was walking around, I remember before that,

cause we were coming from the three and 13, that was fresh enough. That was three years ago. That wasn't like that. That was just yesterday. Y'all remember this.

We were just there. And I remember walking around, I'm talking, dude, I'm talking about I'm ready to die before I leave here defeated. We were all, we were ready, we were all ready to die before we leave there, boy. We were not leaving without that victory.

And we were-

But you know whoever won the NFC championship

was gonna win too. That's who won the Super Bowl. That's how we saw it. Even when we got there, they said, well, Buffalo has experience. And I was like, I don't give a damn about experience. Yeah, I run a deep end in the parking lot.

It doesn't matter.

But boy, when I walked in that Super Bowl, I was like, oh, wait a minute.

Maybe I should have cared.

This is crazy. Because it's different, dog. And you're already 50,000 already. I'm like, I can't breathe, what's going on out here? You know, you can't breathe. You can't even believe it, man. There was nothing like it.

Greatest day of my life after that game was the greatest day of my life. I know, bar none, I know. Nothing like that first one. Nothing like it, man. I sat in that locker room and did not leave because I just wanted to remember that I remember I used to sit in that lock sitting in locker room crying when we lose and and now I'm sitting in this locker room

Looking at the Lombardi trophy that was dude I stayed there all night when Jerry tell you when Jerry when Jerry tells you guys We're gonna make a trade for Charles Haley, you know the story about Haley. Yeah, you Haley Haley the different cat He's he's very different now than he was then and he was very he was very And I knew it I knew cuz right right he's a friend and Daniel Stubb they drafted stuff Yeah, so stubby was over there. And even when he was playing for San Fran

Stubby don't mind me telling this, and that's the game I got hurt against San Fran. Stubby used to call, he'd say, hey man, do you guys got a play? Will you crack him back? Will you crack down on the D-end?

I said, why? He said, dude, I write you a nice check, man, to take out Charles Haley's knee. He said, I hate this joker. You know, because I admit, Charles was all, I mean, Charles had been all over Danny Stubbs. So he was trying to tell me, come in and take out his dude. Just take him out.

You know, I was like, man. Hey, Haley was all over everybody. I ain't coming in and take out no guy. It's taking some extra time to purchase deal with him. Right, right liked you. Boy, but if he...

Right, right.

But if he didn't...

Boy, he gonna stay on you. He gonna stay on you. But no matter what he is, if you put him on the field and say, C-E-Q-B, he'll get that. C-E-Q-B, you could do that. He could do that real good. I don't care what nobody said, man. He was the difference for us on defense.

He was the difference. He ran that defense. Now, in 94, you went 92, you went 93. If Jimmy, because I believe, because Jimmy was your coach in college. And I know how you felt about Jimmy.

I know how you feel about Jerry. But do you think, do you ever think about like, man, why these jokers couldn't just get along like Mr. Krapp and Coach Belichick for 20? That's perfect too. And I was thinking about that.

I mentioned, I was meaning to bring that up because you're so good at this, because that's the perfect example. And you know why? You know why? You know why? Because Jimmy spoke to the media. You see, Belichick never speaks to that.

So they couldn't take Belichick words, run them back to Kraft, twisted them into one. They couldn't take Kraft back to Coach Belichick.

Right, right.

Because neither one of them really did. Because Belichick don't want to hear. He ain't giving you the time. You know what I mean? So it was able to do it for so long. Now Jimmy though, Jimmy looking at, even I look at the documentary, I can see, I can

see it. I know Kotex, he sees it now. But like us, he was monomaniacal, single focus. He couldn't see it then. Look at what this league is now. Honestly, you all can say what you want, it's because of Jerry. CBS, they talk about documentaries. CBS wanted to give less money.

And all the other owners were saying, okay, because we're good old boys. Because CBS really was the first network. Good old boy network. Jerry said, ain't no good old boys here. No, no, no. CBS, you out.

He brought in Fox. Made Fox a whole network. Right, right. Made Fox a whole network. Now everybody starts growing again. Everybody's coming back in. CBS tries to, wants to work back in. He's doing the same thing with Netflix.

In the salary cap, coaches making the kind of money they are making, quarterbacks making the kind of moneymoney making. If somehow they could have worked that out, let Jerry show off the team so he can build a league like he's building the league. If you just do your thing, it would have been perfect. Jimmy would have been known as the greatest coach ever because Jerry was going to promote it that way.

Because you guys were supposed to be the Patriots before the Patriots became the Patriots. Because when you won your third Super Bowl, Mike, you was 28. Right.

Emmitt was like 25.

Dude, isn't that crazy?

Troy was like 26, 27.

You had Larry Allen, you had time, you had your, you had. We had it it man. Yeah, we it was it dude. It was hmm You do you couldn't keep it together? Turn I go god almighty could keep that together y'all but y'all y'all could have three feet I asked him a day I asked him about that day cuz I saw it there old I saw that interview in the Documentary when Bob Costa set Jimmy up pretty good.

When he said, you know, Jerry said, he could coach this team. Do you have any respect for Jerry's football argument? He said, well, yeah, as an owner, as an owner. And then Bob came back. And Jimmy thought about it.

And Jimmy's smart enough. I wish he should have handled that. I know he looks back now and say, I could. Like when he asked, but as an equal, as an equal, it's a setup question. How the hell you going to ask this man is there equal to him? Yeah.

You're not equal to him as a coach. Now, I wish Jimmy would have said, well, listen, I don't expect this man to make me an equal to him in business when he's bought Dallas Cowboys, because he's been doing that for 35 years. I've been coaching for 35 years, so you can't expect me to think he's my equal like I don't expect him to think I'm his equal. Give an answer like that and leave him some room to wiggle, you see, because he's standing

right next to it. I think that was the killer. I think what really hurt Jimmy is that he said there anybody could coach this team But the question is could anybody have built this team and that that's a good that's a good assess That's a good because and to go to get Troy to draft in me to trade her What and I think the thing where it started and who traded her so good way. That's who traded her

So they were like Jimmy said I did it to think where it started. And that's a good way. Who traded Hershel? Jimmy said, I did it. Jerry said it was a collective thing. And it kind of, and then you know you have success. You know you have success. Everybody thinks they have success,

even the people that cook the food. Everybody. But you know that food, that's the best food y'all had.

We don't cook that.

Y'all won a Super Bowl with it We want a super random slant routes. Yo, I think I'd nothing to do with no food you put on the table But everybody does say Why are you going? But you're right and that's why winning at that kind of pace is so hard new deal because Everybody wants to get more credit than they deserve. Than they deserve.

And that's why it's hard to keep it together. Yeah. Mike, you almost got traded to the Raiders. Yeah. Yeah, you know, they have players. I would have loved to go to the Raiders.

If I was going to get traded, Raiders would have been. Al, you remember Al had, Al Davis, you know how he used to walk around when you're working out and always come by. I don't know why that wasn't tampering. Why they never put Al with tampering? Al come right on by and watch you work out. Boy, you work out like a Raider.

So you'll want, he would always, so you'll wanna be a Raider? I'm like, what? Hey, what? I ain't, what? That's his favorite word. The first time, though, listen, though. If you a good player, now David got close to you, he gonna ask you. He come walking by, he always walk by, he wanna, and for us, that was like, boy, that was like Michael Corleone inviting you into the family. Yes, yes.

Bro, I was like, boy, that was Michael Corleone. He actually knew. What? You saw him all the time. That mean you know he knows. And he said, you one of them dogs, because we only want dogs over here. So he played that great, man. I loved Al, man. I loved Al.

But Jerry even said, he said when they were talking about trading me and everything, Al Davis was the one told him, because he was new. Jerry was new, he said, you don't treat people like that. You should trust me, you don't treat people like that. So you know, so you know, Al,

I had a great respect and love for Al Davis, man. I really did. When y'all got time, did you know the time was up for, like 49ers, I'm glad y'all enjoyed that championship, but you're not finna get it. Right, right, right, right, right. And I was, you know, I had called Tyme. We had talked.

Dude, I got Tyme here. He called me when we talked on the phone. I said, he said, Michael, man, what is it like? I said, what was that like going from Atlanta to San Francisco? He said, two multiply that by 10.

Come on, let me show you. That's my verbatim word. Dog, that Joker Kane, that third, I done been all on the ready, y'all.

Primetime party, Thursday night. Come on and make me, help. Y'all. Y'all. Y'all. Y'all.

Y'all.

Y'all.

Y'all. He's always been that. He's always been a show man. So you put that show on man, and I got time. I was so happy to get him man. That's my boy. I love him. And I was like, man, we've been beating each other up for a long time. Let's join forces.

Let's stop this mess, man. Let's come on and play together. And then that made that Florida thing that we love. You've been outspoken about Shador and how the Browns have handled that situation. And I've said, look, I ain't say the man should start, but I do believe that he played well enough in the one game because I was in a very similar situation, Mike. I got drafted in the seventh round, played really well in the preseason game,

and then I started getting repped with the ones and twos because the coaches wanted to see, OK, he did that against the threes and fours. Let's see what he could do against tougher competition. I just thought that was the natural progression. I'm not saying he takes all the rep with the ones, but I'm saying, don't you want to see if he could perform at that level with better competition against better competition? Correct. Yeah. And, yeah. And that's the process.

That's the process of his progress. I want to see that. I want to see. Now, now, what they did, and honestly, I knew they would, what they've done now is put it in a situation. Oh, this is about to be one of the most interesting seasons for the Cleveland Browns that we've

ever seen for the Cleveland Browns. The way I see this thing happening, and you call it a prediction, I'm saying this, I'm prophesying, I know it'll go down this way. I don't know, but old Joe, he'll play first four, five games maybe, and if this team is 0-1, 4-1, and 5, something like that,

and know you're not going anywhere, or Joe gets hurt, dude, Cleveland five, something like that, and know you're not going anywhere, or Joe gets hurt, dude, Cleveland is going to be, it's going to be the first in-season quarterback battle between rookies. If I'm Cleveland, I'm almost saying, this thing wide open.

I'll start dealing one week, should do it the next. Do you know how many people are going to tune in and watch this live, in-season quarterback battle? Joe Flacco hurt. Let's find out. And we got to find out which one of these, if any one of these can do it.

Oh, we're going to have to go back in the market.

We got to go back in. This is about to be a very interesting season for the Cleveland Browns. And I believe Shadur will get those reps that you were talking about to see. And once you get the reps, I want to make sure you put a game plan together for him. The other day, he had no time back here with those guys. Why are we doing regular dropbacks?

Either give him a quick game, just give him a quick game. And to give him a quick game, even though you don't got linemen to block, give me some receivers that can work the quick game. Hit, hit, hit, hit, hit, hit, to give me some movement, you know what I mean?

And usually it takes a quarterback two, three years to really learn the quick game where I can take these bad lin lines and still make a play. That's Tom Brady stuff. That's Patrick, that stuff is gonna take you a little time to learn.

So yeah, I'm anxious to see what happens. And I think the thing is, Shadur, he fell into the thing, and you know this better than anybody, Mike. You're not gonna make every play. And sometimes he falls into the trap. Correct. He's giving up, bro, you can't give up that kind of ground. Sometimes a one, two, check it down, throw it away.

Or throw it away. It's really that simple. An incompletion sometimes is the best thing that you can have. But when you play in a desperation, it's just like you said. Okay, okay. So just like you, you're seventh rounder?

Yep. So now you gotta go in here, Joker, I know, like the old vet that been here for, I know you don't want me to, but I'm about to block you real hard because I don't know if I'm gonna be here, buddy. So you can let somebody else get in this game because don't ask me to go easy

because they gonna send me home. You know what I'm saying? You got to work through that because he had different plays. He's got to try to make a play. You got to try to make a play because I got to make this team. If you're first rounder, you threw the ball away. Nobody going to say that. But you know you're in a competition.

So yeah, that's kind of the balance. Sometimes the incompletion is a good play. It's a good play. And guys got to learn. You know what I want to ask? And that's the part that most young guys have learned in the NFL. They do. Throwing it away, zero is better than minus 12.

You go back and look at your team that won. You guys got Charles Haley, you took the next step. You ain't got Deion, you went back. You guys had an opportunity to get Randy Moss in 98. If you get Randy Moss in 98, do you guys get? We do it.

Yeah, no doubt. Randy gives me life. What he added to Chris Carter, he should have added here. You know, I had spoke with Randy during that draft and Randy, we had already started a friendship. I really thought he was going to get drafted here.

And Jerry talked about it just because of the stuff that we had gone through here and the way the media came at it. They backed him up off Randy. And man, oh my God, if we would have gotten Randy Moss, that would have been the difference. That would have been the difference because he was what he ate us up to every time he played. Oh, that Thanksgiving Day game?

That Thanksgiving Day. He went three for 163. I'm playing him, you know, so we ain't get him now. I got to match up on him. I think I had like eight for 135. I mean, I was like, God, this mother beat my buddy in here tonight.

You know what I mean?

I was supposed to get this dude, man. Golly, I heard. That bothered me, too. That was another one. When you look at the things that you say. The Eric Williams car accident. Yes. That cost us one.

Even with Dion in San Francisco, with Eric Williams, we win that Super Bowl. We win that Super Bowl. We win another Super Bowl. You know, and then you get them, we were certainly gonna win. Those things right there.

We get Randy, you know, these are plays that, man. Yeah, yeah, we're definitely, well, we could have won five in a row. Five in a row, should have won me six or seven by myself. No doubt, no. I should have won three straight national titles, too, before I got to Dallas.

I should have won three straight national title games. I should have won all them jugglers, too, man. But yeah, yeah. You mentioned the differences between Jimmy and Barry. Jimmy was a guy, he going to grind you. He going to ride you. He he gonna grind you. Grind you. He gonna ride you.

Right.

He gonna take you to the limit. He gonna push you, take you right up to the line and he gonna ask you to look over. He gonna ask you to look over the line. Cause you going to the line now, Mike. You going right up to it.

You gotta go. You gotta go. Oh, that's as far saying that I love that says, only those who risk going too far truly knows how far we can go. You know what I mean? And yeah, that's how we've been doing it.

And it's great on the field, but sometimes not so great off the field. But then you get Barry, and Barry was a guy, you're a professional, you're a grown man, you know what you're supposed to do, go handle your business. And it don't, that's a great thing to say,

but it's not a reality in life. No. In no kind of way. No. Everybody has to be held accountable to what we're trying to do and everybody's not going to have the same accountability if you leave it to them on

their own. Correct. So we have to set the standard for accountability. That's why they got people that self-check out. Right. Because they know you're going to scan one and put one in the bag. You're going to put one in the bag. Scan one and put two in the bag. You gonna try. And most people are going to try to slip a corner if you don't watch it, if you don't pin it down. To win championships, there is no corner slipping.

Nope.

There is no way around it. Nobody can give it to you, Nobody can hope it for you. It's will. You've got to go take it. So I can't play with you in the practice because they're not going to play with you in the real.

You've got to go get it. That's just what it is. Mike, where are you on this? And I've kind of gotten away from this. I was really never big on this, going back and forth with current players or former players. Because Tyron told me this.

He's like, man, the problem that you have, he said, you're not wrong. He said, but because you have a gold jacket, it carries more weight than when anybody else says anything else about them players. So when you say something about a player, you got a gold jacket. You're credentialed. Because for the longest, they're like,

well what did you do? They can't ask Michael Irving what did he do. He got three of them things. He was an all decade player in the 90s. And what number are you? I'm 267, what number are you?

232. 232. So you speak of. People get upset, they call it hating. Because you can't have an opinion now,

you can't critique a play now, Mike, you hating.

Right, right, right, right. Because of who you are. And Shannon, that's the power of what you do. And what we have. And let me do this to be righteous, because I love you, brother.

And let me apologize to you here, live, while we're on. Because even when the Travis Hunter stuff went down, with his girl, and I was like, come on, man. And then we finally talked about it. What did we talk? I said the same thing to you.

I said, Shannon, I want you to think about that's you saying. Because everybody's talking to this girl. I said, everybody's you saying. Because everybody's talking to this girl and saying, I say, everybody's saying stuff. The only one he would, I said, the only one he's going to remember is what Bob said. And we're going to need you one day to go lift him up.

And he's going to bring back up, oh, man, you tried to talk to my woman, man. You know what I mean? And that's what I was talking about. You just said it. A million other people can say it, but they ain't got that jacket. It'll go right off his back. But he's trying to get and be you.

So he's going to hear it from you. And now, you won't ever have the ability to go give him what he needs as he takes his journey. And that's what I was saying when I said, Shannon, we're going to need you. When I called, I said, Shannon, we gonna need you. When I called, I said, we gonna need you.

We gonna need you. This brother gonna need you. I don't want him to turn an ear off to you. You're one of our greatest spokesmen out here. I need you to be, and you didn't do anything wrong, but he gonna take it that way.

Because I was like, you trying to help him. But but but but his girl he gonna be like he won't protect his girl You know what I mean? And you know that kind of cuz I told me I don't understand when you were growing up and your mom or your dad your Grandparents told you not to see that boy or not to see that girl. It drove you close Maybe now you know, yeah, so now right you trying to pull them apart They're gonna band together almost like a Romeo and Juliet. Right, right, right, right. So.

And then blame you, cause you know, like you did something to them. This generation different now. They very different. They're different now. You know, I told my son the other day,

listen man, I don't want you with all these girls in the house, and all these women. He's like, hey man, that's a joke. I'm like, hey, dad, like. Joe, this is my house. I do what I want in my house. I'm telling you what I want you doing at my house. That's what I'm trying to, whoa, whoa.

I don't want to hear that. You can't be doing that at my, you know, this generation. My son, Elijah told me one time, I said, like, did somebody take my money out of there?

Did somebody steal my money? And somebody, he said, dad, did you take the money? He said, yeah, I got it. I said, I didn't steal your money, dad. I took it, you're my dad.

I can't steal from you. You took my money! That's how they see it.

You're my dad, what's yours is mine. You can't, I can't steal from you.

I said, okay, this boy crazy, you know what I mean? But they believe that. This generation believe. My dad would have grabbed that belt and Waka-chow, waka-chow. But we ain't no more money around here. Waka-chow, waka-chow.

All year long, you can't be, you know. It would have been a whole different thing. But this generation different. What do you think about today's receivers? Uh, compare, because it's different. I mean, the game is different. The way you attack the receiver, the way you can attack the wide receiver, the space in

which they play in. But they physically gifted now. Ooh! From the time that their mother and brother were. Always. Mike, you didn't have no one-on-one.

You didn't have no seven-on-cam Newton, seven-on-seven. You ain't have none of that. We learned to play in the backyard. And these receivers in this passing game, it's just- Quarterback, they got quarterback coaches in middle school, in junior high, in high school. I was telling people, when we were playing, you had the big receiver and the fast receiver.

Yeah.

Now the big receiver is the fast receiver. They all won, man. And it's so amazing to see the talent and skill set. You got the seven footers dribbling basketballs all the way up the floor. Shoot three. Because everybody now, sports have become such a big business.

Now, it's like when you tell your kids, go be a doctor, go be a lawyer. Go be an athlete. So you start training three, four, five years old, and they train all their lives. The fat guys used to shake fat. Now they're just ... Man, these are 350 pound wide receiver looking dudes. Like Aaron Donovan, there's not an ounce of fat on these jokers, man. It's a whole different game.

Look at Miles Garey. He ain't supposed to be that.

He ain't supposed to be that size and bend the edge like that.

It's amazing to see that.

It's amazing.

I don't care what you say, he ain't supposed to be like that. I had a moment where I saw Alonzo Spellman. Have you ever seen Alonzo Spellman walk through a locker room naked with all them muscles sitting on top of him? And all of them low. And all of them low. I said, God darn, man.

Oh, I would hate to make that joke or mad. I mean, just a physical beast, man. And boy, yeah, Miles Gale, they're different athletes. They're different athletes. They're different now. Now, the physical skill set. Physical skill set. Now, mentality, they are different also. I see receivers now tapping heads on third down. Coming out the game. Oh, I ain't never coming out on third down. That's the money. I'm going to get that ball.

They going to get that. I see you tap your helmet on third down. Coach, get him out the game. Don't ever bring his ass back. Don't you, you keep, you leaving now, we need third down. Yeah. You wanna, we need to go get these other downs. Right.

Right now.

You can go some next, but you, if you leave on this third down, don't ever wanna, I don't ever wanna play with you again. You got all the physical skill set, all the physical skill set. But sometimes I question the desire when I see guys walking off the field on third down.

Denzel has some very, some very,

some very strong comments to say about them Cowboys.

You heard what he said.

That Denzel Washington? Yeah.

Love Denzel.

Yeah, yeah, he said, he said, I don't know. Yeah, I heard him talk about Jerry, say all money ain't good money. You know what I mean? I guess when you get up there with the kind of money they got, for me all money. I guess when you get up there, I can't wait to see that day.

You know what I mean? I wonder what day we go.

And I'm sure like,

ha ha ha,

have some bad 50,

have a bad 50 million.

Ha ha ha ha, hey. if you have bad 50 million. Hey, that's a bad 50 million. Now, I don't know if you want that. Well, let's sit it over here anyway. I decided on it. We'll find later. All right, right.

I don't know about that all money ain't good money. But I get the gist of what he's saying. You know, I get the gist of what he's saying. It's about, let's get it to the field, let's get back in the championship challenge and everything. And I believe, and he's right about that.

He's right about that. And that's why, and I know Jerry does business with, but that's why I thought this time, this time is the right time to get Michael Parson done. Let's not go through what it went through with Dak and CD. Let's make Michael, I wanted him to Micah to Patrick Mahomes of this team. I thought that would have been smart. Right.

The expectations. You got George Pickens. CD comes back healthy. Dak says he's feeling good. The only thing really, the uncertainty is your defense, but you're going to be reliant on your offense because your best player, three of your best four players, Michael, for me, is the best player on this team. But you got Seedy, you got Pickens, who's coming from Pittsburgh, extremely talented, but, you know, hey, he wasn't getting the ball, he wouldn't mope,

he wouldn't block, and do you have that? What is your expectations for the Cowboys this season? What you have to look at this year, and especially in this league, Cowboys probably the last year had those three 12 and five seeders. They were averaging about 28, 29, 30 points a game in those years.

They were pretty tops in offense. In this league, if you can put an offense on the field, you can win some games. Yes. You can put an offense on the field, and you can make some plays late, you can win some games. Yes. You can put offense on the field and you can make some plays late, you can win the game.

Now, my problem is I have that on offense. The issue I'm having with, and when you do go up and put them points on the board, now you just set the defense up to pin their ears back. The best ear pinner you have, you're not even paying. So how are you working harmoniously to get to a Super Bowl? So Michael Parsons' value went up when you got George Pickens. Because now, every time you gave, given back two receivers, he came away 12 and 5.

He was in the top offense, and you know you got, he has that now. Right. Michael Parson should have more value because he can get to the quarterback, and if you're going to put up 35 points. That's the surprise that I think will hit a lot of people this year because the Cowboys will put up at least 30 points a game. I think it was last year, you spoke about your wife

who's been by your side through thick and thin. My baby. And you said she's going through early onset dementia. Yeah. How has that been on you, dealing with that? I mean, at such a young age,

and to see the woman that you've been, she was a cheerleader after you, you met in college, and to see her go through that. And with the support that she's given me over the years, you know, my wife, I'm 59, and we recognize some things were going wrong with her

about 10 years ago, actually. Really? We thought it was menopause, and you know, you go through it and you start going to the doctor. Now, I'm coming off of burying my mother-in-law. Well, I buried my mom. She

had Alzheimer's. My mother-in-law was living with us because she had Alzheimer's. And we were taking care of her. And we thought my wife was going through menopause at 49 because she's coming in 50. So in about a year, year, year and a half of testing, we find out it was early onset. So we had been dealing with this eight, nine years,

you know, going back and forth. And it's been, you know, what's difficult is, you know, it's quite hard to take care of someone 24 hours a day. 24 hours. And she has that agitating Alzheimer's. And I have to keep a 24-hour nurse with her all the time.

And these people now, you know, she's getting agitated, Alzheimer's, and she hits you. They take that nurse out, send another nurse, and they put more charges on. I mean, they're running a bail up on me. But she, if anybody, has earned the right to be in her home.

Yes.

You know what I mean? And no matter what, she will be in her home. And I have to deal with it. And it gets hard. But football gets me, like, I'll do what I gotta do all week. I didn't get to go on the weekend and talk football or somewhere, watch some games, have a good time.

And I can come back and do what I gotta do again. You know what I mean? And take care of my wife, take care of my family. But football still. Football playing football brought me out of the ghetto. Now, being around the game, it keeps me sober

and gives me that lift so I can go deal with everything else I need to deal with the most touching thing That I took from that documentary is that when you got in that trouble and your wife said The Lord told me I am your wife And whatever else you did you got to work out that with him gonna make but I'm your wife And I'm not leaving but you got not leaving, but you got to work out what you need to work out with him. When you told a story

and it almost like you broke down, it's like that broke me. Everything else I had been through, I thought I was strong enough to overcome. But when I heard a lot of those words, that broke me. It's the fight in me, right? I told you about the reptilian brain. I rather her fight Here not physical fight because I never hit a woman by wrestling. What is wrong with you? What are you doing?

How could you do it? How could you do me like that? Then I what I've been taking care of everybody You know that that's I'm gonna take care of my family your family. I'm going to do you you can run to that Yeah, you could run to that. Yeah. You can run to that. But she didn't fight me. She says, I'm going to get out of the way.

And now she makes that fight between me and me. Now I'm looking. And she just showed me in that moment how much she doesn't deserve, how much I don't deserve her. In that moment. And she's saying she's not going anywhere.

What you go in the room and say to that? What do you do? I was hoping she was going to fight me and we get in an argument, I can walk back out the door and go do some more.

Right.

Or she said, I'm going to divorce you. If you want to be out there, I'm out. Do what you got to do. I'm gone. I'll go back and do some more. You know what I mean? But when she hit me with that, it was, oh, yeah. Boy, that was the hardest. When you found yourself alone with yourself, did you ask God, God, what did I do to deserve this woman? What did I do to deserve her? What did I do to deserve your mercy?

Yeah. Something like that. A woman like this. And my mom, my mom, man, she was always like, you know, you meet people as you go through. And my mom would always say, that's a good girl, baby, but she's not the one. Like, that's a good woman, but she's not the one. Or that's a girl, and she's not the one. I like her, but she's not the one. As soon as she met Santa, she was like,

that's it, that's the wife. That's the one. My wife and my mom were very close, you know, very close. And me and her mom were very close because her mom put me back together. Like even when I was out all night, messing around, come back home,

her mom would say, baby, come on now. It's just the devil that we're trying to take our blessings. She said, I got you. Just, we're going to get you back on your feet. She would pray, feed me, say, nobody going nowhere. We're going to get you back on your feet.

That's the old school, though.

Yeah.

That's how my grandparents, that's how they came up. And it happened in the day, that's that village. Yes, absolutely.

When they say you can take a village.

That's the village. They're going to look out and take care of you. And she was like that. Her mom and I were so close. I miss her so much, man. Because she just helped me with everything. She just helped me. But yeah, that's been hard. And the thing was, after watching what my mom goes

through, and then us picking her mom up off the floor, even at the house all the time, when we realized it was Alzheimer's, my wife, she made a promise. I don't want anybody to said, I don't want anybody to know. I don't want anybody to know. I don't want anybody to see it. That's why people never found out. I've

been dealing with it 10 years because she didn't want anyone to know. And how they found out is I brought everybody, because I told everybody, you can come live at the house. It's a big house. It's just us. You can come live at the house. It's a big house. It's just us. You can come live at the house, help out. And then her brother and sister get in a fight at the house, and I'm working, and they're calling me all the time.

He has to go, he has to go. Then I had to get her brother to leave, and he didn't want to leave. I had to take him to court to leave out, and then it all came out in a little court because I had to get them to leave right and instead of you know and it was just it's mess this is so hard on families disorder because every family member loves the one that is sick and they think they know what's best and you got you arguing about treatment and who's gonna take care of her and this thing requires an anointing.

I can't do it 24 hours a day, every day. So I got, I have to get help. It takes an anointing to take care of people. So I'm praying for everybody out here that's dealing with it. And there's a lot of people that are dealing with it.

You know, a child, taking care of a child, pick the child up, you can carry him around, but you're talking about an adult. That's not as easily manageable. Correct. Correct.

And like you said, she's at that state where she gets agitated and she fights you back and you try to calm her down, and it's a huge undertaking. And with a child, you have hope of tomorrow. I'm doing all of this now, but the kid's going to learn, and they'll be able to do it.

So you got an end game. There is none here. She's not going to get better. We're going to continue to do this. And so you just got to keep that support and keep people around her.

Like the doctor said, bring as much family around as you can. Does she recognize family? She doesn't recognize. You know, it's so funny you say that. For the first time, about three months ago, and I promise you, man, in at least seven, eight years before she said, she looked at me, you know, she said, uh-uh, uh-uh, and I held her hands out. Like, come here, baby.

And she hadn't done that in, you know, seven, eight years. About six years ago, six years, seven years ago, she came, we were in the room, and she looked at me like, who is this in my bed? And that's when I knew, yeah, yeah,

I can't be in the room anymore. So I had to go to the other room. Cause she was like, who is this man in my bed? You know, so yeah, she had to have her own room.

Damn, sorry to hear that Mike. in my bed, you know, so yeah, I should have got my own room. Damn.

It's hard to hear that, Mike. You touched on it briefly. Rampage Jackson, his son, Raja, got into a situation with a psycho, Stu. And he gets on the internet. The internet's a blessing and a curse.

It is a blessing and a curse. Because you've seen it make careers, and you've seen it end careers, and sometimes people perform it for the camera. That's really not who they are, but they perform for the cameras.

I mean, if-

All the time, ain't no sometime. Most of the time. Most of the time. If you could, like, if that was your child, I mean, how would you go about it, Mike? How would you like, man, you know, I thought Rampage, you know, he came out and says, look, I want to apologize for my son.

That's really all you can do because the act has already happened. You just hope that people will give him mercy, will give him grace, show him leniency. But there's really nothing yet. I mean, it's happened now. Yeah. Yeah. I tell you what, now, I know they're trying to say all of this and everything, and they

told him part of the scheme and all of that. There's a lawsuit coming.

I don't apologize.

Who apologized to who? Whatever cycle Stu going through. And somebody going to get Cycle through and and, and, and, and, cause somebody gonna reach, get cycle suit and say, listen, we got money here. Right. We got some soul.

There's a lawsuit coming. I just, I, I, you know, I just want, like, if, if, if you're going to be doing all this, and streaming, and inviting people in, understand you're inviting in their opinions too.

Yes.

So you can't, after inviting all these people in, go crazy on somebody else, because all these people say you soft and all that, you know, because that's what he was, look at me, calling me, ain't this, ain't that. Well, you invited them to this show.

Yes. You told them that their opinions matter and you allowing them now space in your brain and these things happen. Yeah, I think, I used to always say, I'd rather somebody, I'd rather be around somebody

that's, I understand mental illness is real, but I'd rather be around somebody that's really mentally ill than somebody that's acting like they're mentally ill. Because somebody that's acting like they're mentally ill will take it too far to prove the point. You know what I mean?

And if somebody's mentally ill, you can kind of see it and deal with it and work with it. And I don't know. I don't know about him, but I was like, I'm worried about what I see with that. Dude, wait, it's a wrestling match. We all know this is fake. Correct. And that can he hit you with, ain't no sport puttin' that can was already soft and prepared for that hit.

You didn't even move when he hit you. It wasn't even that serious, and you understand. But for you to go after all of that time and wail like that and think that was okay, that's a little crazy. Right.

That's a little crazy.

And you might say, well, that's crazy, Michael. We talking about that. We just talked about you cutting, dude, throwing, all of that. Yeah. Yeah, but that was woof.

I mean, you just pounded 25 times on this man, and he's out.

That's, yeah.

What's it been working like with Camden Mays? I love those guys. They're funny dudes. It reminds me a lot of Dion and I. You know, that old friendship that's been around a long time. You got those hidden things to mess with. But they're smart dudes. They are smart dudes, man.

I love what they've done. And I love the brand because our people spend a lot of time music and sports. So when you start blending those two, you can grab a good audience because that that's what that's what we do And that's you know that so I love having that opportunity to talk to us to talk to that audience

I enjoy being with cam Cost of criticism cam Newton when he said Jalen Hurst He don't see think Jalen Hurst of the top 10 quarterback and everybody Now they try to under man undermine his career cam was a phenomenal player. No, oh my god Wonder how has been trophy for normal? I mean, are we no longer allowed to have opinions Mike? Yes, you can have an opinion you can have an opinion but you got it

I'm gonna have an opinion on your opinion. Right. That's just what it is. And if you deliver the opinion and you come off of anything where people feel you are staying professional and you go personal, then they're going to go personal. Correct. And it's just what they may see.

Every Eagle fan, once you say that about Jaylon Hurts, come on, man. Hey, this man just gave him a Super Bowl. Took him to two. Gave him the last one, so you're going to get some pushback and you didn't win that Super Bowl.

You just got to get ready to handle that. And you're going to get, everybody going to bring up, you're not diving on that ball. You just got to be ready for that. And be ready when you go in. You know, be ready to go in when you go in and understand that's what's going down.

That's what's going down. I'm gonna get you out of here on this one, Mike. Your dad raised 17 kids. You don't nearly have that many kids. What type of father is Michael Irvin? How close of your father, how he raised his kids,

are you to raising your kid? My dad was more hard on us. He was more difficult, tough, you know what I mean? My dad would say, when I was a kid, he'd say, you know, teach me about being a man. He said, being a man is about making decisions. Living and dealing

with the results or the consequences. That's what we got to do. And so I remember being young and thinking I was slick. I said, oh, okay. So I said, well, Dad, I'm going to make a decision. Try to wake me up when I made a decision. I think I want to quit school. He said, well, Dad, you know, I'm going to make a decision. Try to wake me up when. I made a decision. I think I want to quit school. He said, OK, son. Let's go.

I said, I just made a decision. I thought you should be a man and make a decision. Right. And I said, yeah, that's the decision. The other side of it is the consequence. Let's go. You're going to go to work with me? Dude, dude, I went to work with this joker that first day.

Oh, and he was a roofer. Like, we went on the roof. Yeah. And laid tile in Florida.

Yeah.

My dad died of a brain and throat tumor. To this day, I know it was the sun in Florida beating down on his head. Because we worked Sunday, sunlight, sunlight. Yeah, but you had to get those those ties up you had to cut the tile upstairs I'm carrying I'll be on top of the roof because now they got a machine that'll ride it up there for you

dude that's what he is like and I had to put on ropes pull that stuff up you had to grab him so he worked me to death when I when I went to car I worked every summer with him I went to college I took the pants and the shirt with all the semen on it. Dude, it was on my wall in college. I said, well, if you don't make football work, that's gonna be work.

Yeah.

I'm never gonna work that. I'm never going to work that. Now, what I tell Kia, have a lot of jobs when you're growing up because it'll tell you what you don't want to do. What you don't want to do. Because if you can't do that job as a child,

when you young and got full of energy.

Energy, right, right. Having a dog. No time for it, no time for it. So it's a different, and it goes back to what I was saying when we started. In our areas where we grew up, we didn't have, I want to be him. I want to be him. I want to be him.

Them pants and shirt, I don't want to be him. That's what I know. I will not be him. And that's how you got it. That's how you got motivated. 2026 Super Bowl champ Cowboys?

2025, the plays in 2026. Cowboys got a chance here. Cowboys got a chance here. Cowboys got a chance. We got a new head coach and there's so many things, you gotta see how he handles in game. In game.

But in this league, if you could put 25 to 30 points on, you can win any game in this league. And the Cowboys have an offense that can put up 30 points. 27 to 30 points. You can win games.

When you re-watch America's team, the Gambler and the Cowboys, when you re-watch all that, what goes through your mind? Man, it's, first of all, I'm so glad they showing these highlights, man.

Because they forgot to play.

I don't forget how bad a brother, man. Because they forgot to play. I'm not mad at brother. I forgot how bad I was. I ain't mad at them.

I forgot.

I was like, God dang.

I did all that. Two touchdowns and 18 seconds.

What?

Shannon, that boy, hey boy.

God, I didn't know why we like that.

Why them highlights? I was like, whew. Everywhere I go now doing speaking engagements and they play these highlights, I was like, give me a copy of that. I got a copy of all of them. Yeah, I want all the highlights, you know what I mean? So first, it's always you go through

and you go over those moments, man. But people, what I want them to take from it, and what I want these current Cowboys to take from it, is what we talked about, the closeness it takes to win championships. I always say this, football teams and organizations will never win a championship. It's too hard. It has to be a football family. Think about championship teams. Man, you in football, you in baseball, Reggie, Jack, Reggie,

he can have a problem with the manager. Y'all ain't got to get along. You can still win. And basketball, you can probably still win. It ain't happening in football because everything is interconnected and interdependent on one another. So we can't have these strife, this gripe. This division.

This division. You can't be ... So that's the whole game. If you become this close, this is what it takes to be a champion. And you can talk about all of the talent we had, but you get to see the work we put in

and the determination we had to turn it around. And honestly, there's nothing greater when it starts at the bottom and you raise it to the top. That's the greatest journeys that you can take.

Playmaker.

Bye, my dog.

Love you, my brother.

Appreciate you.

You my brother.

All my life, been grinding all my life.

Sacrifice, hustle paid the price. Want a slice, got the roll of dice. That's why all my life, I been grinding all my life. All my life, been grinding all my life Sacrifice, hustle pay the price, wanna slice All my life, been grinding all my life Sacrifice, hustle pay the price, wanna slice Got to roll the dice, that's why, all my life I've been grinding all my life