“Muslims Will Be OFFENDED” - Sam Shamoun Reveals Quran & Prophet Muhammad Contradictions | PBD | 684

If we all believe the same thing, we'd be the same religion. According to the New Testament, it's gonna hurt people. Muhammad is an antichrist. There are many antichrists who come into the world. You know, I know Muslims will get offended, but it is what it is.

What happened with you and Janko?

Give him some time. It was a misunderstanding. That's fine. Have you guys spoken since or no? where they're at, invite them to Islam, and if they accept, they're safe. If not, take the jizya from them, and if not, kill them until the victor goes to spoils.

How do you go where you were at to now being able to sit down against any Muslim, pretty much, and have a strong debate with them?

Most Muslims are shocked to hear when I say, Oh, Hazrat Aisha, did you know she was nine when Muhammad deflowered her? You're a liar. You're lying. Can you tell me how to invite Jesus? She thought I was crazy. What are you talking about? But I remember crying out to him. You know, I said, Jesus, I don't know how to invite you in, but I want you in my life. I'm not supposed to cry. I'm Jesus. There's something very different

about you that you're a complicated human being

Did you ever think you were

Know this life man for me Adam

The future looks bright

Handshake is better than anything i ever signed right here

you are a one-on-one my son's right okay we have a special guest in the house it's very rare

you will get three assyrians in the room doing a podcast but we're pulling it off today we have Vincent Oshana obviously we know the Assyrian Al Pacino looking Vinny and then we have the great Sam Shimon in the house.

By the way just for the people to know just like you have 12 tribes of Israel we have many tribes of Assyria. And each tribe has a clan. So I'm from the Jilu tribe. If you do a little history about us, we're known as the warrior tribe.

Even we speak like warriors. Agamini, etamarnanush malu. So the Jilus are not gonna be rejoicing now

that I spoke to them.

They're happy.

Yeah, so you know, first time I was turned on by your content was An old friend of ours Marvin. He says you got to watch this guy. No, no, I'm like this guy's incredible So capable talented and then obviously we invited you to have you on a podcast

And then eventually we were able to get you to be here and it's it's I'm happy we're finally doing this. Well, glory to the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. I always ask the Spirit to fill me, to help me, to point people to Christ and not bring attention to any of us because there's a danger among not just politics or even in celebrity figures, even the apologetic realm of what I call cult of personality, where you are drawn to a person and you idolize him. And so by the grace of God in this field,

there can be no idols. So it cannot be about me and how great I am. And because we are all struggling in the flesh, sometimes our ego loves to be praised. And I have to check that, right right so glory to Jesus Christ for the gifts He gives he's given me, but I pray in this session

I disappear and Jesus shines through me and that through this message Everyone will be filled with the Spirit to know that Christ is the only hope of salvation And he has to be the king of every sphere of our life not just religiously but politically.

Sam, if somebody goes and searches you and they type in your name and they go to views, it's you and Muslims back and forth. Let's play one of them. Actually play the other one. Play this one here first.

Oh that was my first public debate.

Is this your first public debate? So this is your first public debate.

Go ahead Rob. A woman can be beaten according to the glorious Quran. Now do you want to get into a long discussion of what is the position of women in the Quran and the Bible? I mean we can do that. The book of Revelation chapter 14 verses 4 and 5 shows that women will not enter paradise.

He talks about Revelation 14 that doesn't work. Read the context. It's speaking of 144,000 of Israel who were specifically chosen for a task. After mentioning the 144,000 this is what you conveniently forgot. Revelation 7 verse 9, I looked and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count from every nation, tribe, people, and language standing before the throne in front of the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and

were holding palm branches in their hands and they cried out in a loud voice, salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne and to the Lamb. That's the context. Do not misquote my scripture.

So, I mean, this is where a lot of the stuff out there for you But what I want to do is before we go in here. I just want to learn about you I want to know your story so walk me through how you go where you were at to now being able to sit down against any Muslim pretty much and have a

Strong debate with them. How did that happen? By the way, this debate, I had just stopped bodybuilding. Just to give you a little background, I come from a family of bodybuilders, so in the 90s I used to train. So when I see some of your handsome, muscular staff, you know, I start getting envious.

You know, envy's a sin. But yeah, I was just looking at myself. Even though I stopped bodybuilding, I didn't stop eating as if I was a bodybuilder. But to give you a little background, I was born in Kuwait, 1972, came to Chicago in 1974. So pretty much I've been raised in America.

A Chicagoan, don't know much about the Middle East. Though our parents are Christian, if you're from an Assyrian background, they'll either be typically part of the Assyrian Church of the East, or in the case if you come from Iran specifically, they'll either be Presbyterian, because we had a lot of missionaries

that came to the Middle East and converted the Assyrians to, let's say, Presbyterianism, but historically the church of the Assyrians is in the West called the Nestorian Church. Now, why do they call us Nestorians? It's not a compliment, and I don't want to boggle you down with the details, but there was a bishop in the 5th century named Bishop Nestorius, who was accused of teaching that there are two persons in Christ. That he's a divine person, human person, and that's blasphemy. And so, the Assyrians have been labeled human person, and that's blasphemy. And so

the Assyrians have been labeled Nestorian, but it's not a compliment. It's meant to ostracize the Assyrian Church, because the Bible teaches and the Church teaches Christ is one person. He's an eternal, uncreated, divine person who became flesh from the Holy Virgin. So to say he's two persons is blasphemy. So they were accused of holding to the two-person theory of Christ, which is not true.

So that's my background. And I don't know if you come from that background. Typically, if you're from that background, you'll be baptized as an infant. But even Presbyterians baptize infants, but for a different reason.

So not to bog you with the details, in the Assyrian Church, water baptism is the means by which the Spirit comes on you, makes you one with Christ, so that you're already part of Christ's body. So, He regenerates you, He makes you alive, unites you to Christ. Presbyterians believe that water baptism is the sign that makes you a member of the covenant community, the new covenant of Jesus Christ, but it doesn't regenerate you,

it doesn't make you one with Christ. That's something you must do later on. So there are some differences. So I was baptized as Syrian Church of the East, but my parents never told me about Christianity. I didn't learn about Christianity from my parents.

Never told me who Jesus was, what the Bible is. I remember going to church. You didn't go to church. Well they would take me to church but I didn't know what we were doing. Like once a week, maybe once every couple of weeks, you know, Christmas. I had no idea. None whatsoever. But my introduction to Christianity came from a nine-year-old Assyrian boy named Raymond

Malco from Lebanon. He preached to me the gospel of Jesus Christ. In Chicago? Yep, at nine. He was nine years old. I think I should know. How old were you? Six and a half. He's nine, you're six and a half. Yes. His grandmother was a godly, saintly woman. She was from a Catholic background, but his uncles on his mother's side, they were taught Baptist theology. So if

you're familiar with what they call the independent fundamental, see I'm giving you too many like denominations, but it is what it is. There are a lot of denominations. And the independent fundamental Baptist denomination believed that you have to go soul winning, win souls for Christ. So you got to go knock on doors and lead them into the sinner's prayer. So his uncles taught him that theology, so he would go soul winning. So he found this soul. And for the first couple of weeks, I just ignored him.

I thought he was crazy. But then one day, he got my attention because he said, Jesus Christ, and I'm giving you the gist. Remember, I'm the six and a half, I'm 53. And it's kind of sad you guys are younger than me. That's scaring me.

I'm better in and healthier. Lord, I pray for that glorified body sooner than later. So, he told me Jesus Christ is the Son of God. See, if I talk about the story, I get a little emotional. And he told me that he loved me so much he died for me. That rocked me. At six and a half.

To know someone would love me that much to die for me so He taught me the sinner's prayer and sinners prayers, you know, you say Lord Jesus. I'm a sinner come into my heart now being a kid, I thought I had to Recite that prayer word for word because we take everything literally, right and he told me do it at night So I took him literally I had to wait till night. So I was afraid I was going to forget the prayer and I kept reciting it and night came and I forgot it.

But I remember that night and I remember that I was in tears. My mom was next to me and I told her, I remember waking her up saying, can you tell me how to invite Jesus? She thought I was crazy. What are you talking about? But I remember crying out to him. You know, and I said, Jesus, I don't know how to invite you in, but I want you in my life. So six and a half. He would do street evangelism.

There are people from the neighborhood, Chicago, Foster and Clark Street. There are people who are listening who are going to remember this. He actually would lead me and he would preach and we'd gather crowds. A nine year old, because it's shocking. I mean a nine year old that he'd preach. Fire and brimstone and hell. And I was just a sidekick. I didn't know anything. Now you fast forward, he had to relocate and I lost my elder brother because he was the

one who held me accountable Sadly my teenage years things happened broken family dad left I was very close to my uncle and he died of cancer and but I believe was 1982 So he was closer to me than my father So I just gave up on everything and I started doing things. I shouldn't have done, you know teenage You go into drinking and you that we're not proud of. But I had a huge emptiness in my heart

because I've always suffered with two things in my life. And these are symptoms of pride. If you actually break it down, symptoms of pride. But nonetheless, I suffered from low self-esteem and body dysmorphia, which is still two demons that I have to slay to this day.

And because I had this low self-esteem and really, really just body shamed myself, I felt more depressed. So I thought the solution would be bodybuilding. Why? Because my older brother started bodybuilding.

And if you know about bodybuilding, you probably have heard of Sergio Olivia.

Of course.

He was a Chicago cop. But he also had a gym.

He's got a son as well right now. Oh man.

Incredible physique.

Oh really?

His son makes his father. He was known for one of the greatest poses of all time. If you go to images, Sergio Olivia, his forearms, he does this pose. The one, the fourth picture. That one right there. Jeez. Look at that. You should see his son. It makes his father look like nothing. Can you pull up his son's picture as well? His son is, Vinny, you won't even believe it.

Look at his son.

That's his son.

Look at that, that's his son to the right. Oh my goodness.

Oh my, damn. These guys are just mad.

He blows us, yeah. Yeah, it was Bruce Lee. I still love Bruce Lee. I just can't get over this guy. And when I hear people saying, oh, he was an actor, it's us, it gets me angry.

What are you talking about, man? In the street fight, I'll gouge your eyes out, you know? The myth of Bruce Lee. So I thought in my very sick mind, maybe I can get into kickboxing and bodybuilding and become the first Assyrian movie star. Hey, if Bruce Lee did it, Arnold Schwarzenegger did it, why not me? Well I realized the more I worked out, the more miserable I became.

So there was a time in which I peaked, I was like around 200, and I'm not trying to talk about, you know, I don't want people to think I'm, just to give you an idea what God is doing. He's allowing me to attain goals to see how empty I'll be. So at one time I got to be about 220 pounds of solid muscle, no fat on me, and I was miserable. I was depressed and I realized, you know what, maybe I should try God.

Now this is around maybe like close to 18. I don't even know the year cause I was born in 72 and I try to remember the exact year, but it's in the nineties. As I'm thinking about God, I used to be the, if you ever valet your car that you have a valet parking, well in Chicago, there was a restaurant called Bob city. It was in a very shadier side of Chicago, Cabrini Green, so they had a parking lot and I was the security guy, security dude, right?

And they call him, the term I'm looking for, the guy who gives you the ticket, I forgot the name for it. His name was Hal and he kept saying, praise be to almighty Allah. Now remember, although my family's from the Middle East, they never mentioned Islam once

to me.

So I have no idea what Islam is or who Muslims are. So he keeps saying, Almighty Allah. Now you know, we speak Assyrian, we say Allah. Allah.

Or Allaha.

Allah.

So he got me interested. So I said, can I ask you a question? How do you know this term? So he started talking about Minister Louis Farrakhan. I have no idea what this guy's talking about. Then he says the Honorable Elijah Muhammad. The Prophet Muhammad and then he mentions Master Farhad Muhammad. Now I'm thinking it's the same Muhammad. Turns out he's a member of the Nation of Islam. Nation of Islam who's now the leader is still alive. Louis Farrakhan hasn't passed away. There he goes. One of the most powerful charismatic speakers. This man will captivate you and he does it from memory. He doesn't have notes as he passed away. There he goes. One of the most powerful charismatic speakers.

This man will captivate you. And he does it from memory. He doesn't have notes in front of him. He'll quote the Bible Koran from memory. This man is amazing in his recall and his speech. So captivating.

And he mentioned the Koran. So I asked, could you give me a copy? Well, I read the Koran and I was flabbergasted because here's a book that mentions the major prophets of the Bible and Jesus, but it gives a different spin on it. So I got really confused. So in the back of the book, you have like, you know, table of contents, not table, I'm

sorry, index of names. So I went look for Jesus and every place that Jesus showed up in the Quran. And I believe the translation was Abdullah Yusuf Ali At that time it was the most popular Quran translation Now it's obsolete But in the 90s, this was the translation that Muslims would give out

And he's got copious notes, right, to indoctrinate you Man, I ate it up I was shocked to find Jesus in the Quran And this is one thing that non-Muslims, when they encounter Islam, the shock effect. Because they think Muslims are the other side, they're all evil, they're terrorists. And then they find out that they have more in common with Christianity than even Judaism

does. This is a fact. Islam is closer to Christianity than Judaism because Islam recognizes Jesus. It says he's the Messiah born of the Virgin in fact the Quran says that the greatest woman Allah created is Mary and she's the only woman mentioned by name in the entire Quran woman aren't mentioned so if we're

looking at his mom not not even the prophets no Muhammad's parents you don't even know whose parents are you don't even know his historical context if you just with the go to Quran it doesn't even situate the crown for you don't know is what centuries this all you know it's in Arabic but when wasn't sent down you need external sources even when Muhammad was born you need external sources because Muhammad is mentioned by name four times but even

then you can make a case that it's not really the name of a prophet but it's a descriptive noun meaning the praised one. And some people actually postulate that what you have in the Quran is actually Christian hymns that were then bastardized into Arabic, originally in Syriac, a lot of theories. Some of the theories are strong.

So again, as I read the Quran, I got baffled. But here's where training your children and the way to go pays dividends. Because of that young boy teaching me the Christian faith, planting seeds in my heart, my reaction was to go back to the New Testament.

I go, wait, let me read the New Testament. And I remember reading it, man, I fell in love with Jesus all over again. In fact, I missed him. You know, I missed him. I'm not supposed to cry, I'm Jiddu, you know that, right?

The warrior's showing us all sides.

Jesus makes even the toughest of men cry like babies because he's infinitely beautiful and we are infinitely less than filthy. But as I read the New Testament, I fell in love with him all over again. There's no one like Jesus. Even those who do not believe in religion, when they read, for example, the Sermon of the Mount, they're in awe of his message. They even realize this is not

human. This is heavenly, the way he teaches about to treat your enemies. This is something out of this world, and it is. It's not from this world. It's from a higher realm, heaven. I fell in love with him, but then I had a problem. What do I do with Muhammad? Because I was convinced Muhammad was a true prophet because he was sincere. They gave me a biography because then I forgot to add the details. Then I discovered Malcolm X. I forgot to mention that because Malcolm X is a big figure in the nation of Islam. He was the one who pretty much made the nation of Islam but

then he realized that Elijah Muhammad who was the man who claimed that Master Farad Muhammad sent him. So there was a man named Master Farad Muhammad and he went to Elijah, whose name was Elijah Pool in Michigan, and he said, pretty much I want to appoint you as a prophet to liberate my people. And this theology teaches that Allah is a black man. So it's not Islamic.

You go to predominant Muslim country that practices. You tell them Allah is a black man Your body is going to be over here and your head will be over there on a trophy So this is a but I didn't know so I started reading Malcolm X and then Alex Haley is autobiography by Alex Haley. I didn't understand a lot of the code terms because he kept saying them T H E M in the book Then I realized there was an abbreviation for the Honorable Elijah Muhammad. But a story captivated me because supposedly on a trip to Mecca, he discovered true Islam.

And I thought, man, if Islam could do for this guy, or if Islam could do for me what it did for this guy, maybe Islam is the solution. But that's when I went back to the New Testament, the Lord saved me, but I had read a sanitized biography on Muhammad that made him look very, very devout, sincere. And so I didn't know what to do with him. Because if he's sincere and he's willing to suffer for his claims, then obviously he's not lying.

But what he says about Jesus contradicts what the New Testament says. How do I reconcile that? It took me maybe two years to finally, and I know it's not a politically correct message, but it is what it is. That's why Islam is not Christianity, Christianity is not Islam. We're not the same, we have differences.

So Islam thinks that Christianity has been perverted, corrupted, the New Testament's been changed. We believe that there are many antichrists who will come into the world. I know Muslims will get offended, but it is what it is. Jesus in John 14, 6 explicitly says, I am the way and the truth and the life. No man comes to the Father except through me.

He didn't say I'm one of many ways. I point you to the life and I can bring you to the father among many goes No, I am the truth the life now even from an Islamic perspective No prophet can say he's the truth the life because Islam recognizes those titles as belonging only to the God of Islam Which they believes the God of Abraham. So for Jesus to say he's the truth. He just claimed to be more than a man From an Islamic perspective to say you're the life

You just claim to be more than a man and an Islamic perspective. To say you're the life, you just claim to be more than a man. And he says you want to get to the Father, you want to be with me, you want to dwell with me, you better come to me and accept me as I am. But the Jesus of the New Testament who's the Christ of history is not a Muslim prophet. His name is not Isa Ibn Maryam. He did not announce the coming of Ahmed because the Quran says in chapter 61 verse 6 That the good news of Jesus is that he announced the coming of a messenger after him named Ahmed

That's in 61 verse 6 of the Quran you guys can see it. So if you ask the Muslim, what is the gospel of Christ? Oh, he predicted the coming Muhammad That's 61 verse 6 if you want to see it. can you pull it up 61 verse 6 in the Quran? Yeah. There you go. And remember when Jesus son of Mary said, Oh children of Islam, I'm truly Allah's messenger to you,

confirming the Torah which came before me, and giving good news of a messenger after me whose name will be Ahmed. That's the good news of Islam. He prepared you for Mohammed. Because Ahmed is nothing. Nothing for Mohammed. Right? That's what they tell you. So, that's their good news. That's not the Jesus of history.

The Jesus of history claims to be the very God in such a way that even the Quran acknowledges. No man can claim the titles he claimed. When I said that one of the names of Allah is the truth, Al-Haqq, and he is the life. And he's also the first and the last. Well if you go to chapter 22 for 6 to 7, there you're going to see the names of Allah pretty much plagiarized from what Jesus said prior to the Quran. You'd think if I didn't tell you this is Allah speaking, you'd think that you're reading

the Gospel of John because what is said about God here the Allah of Islam is Exactly parroted from what Jesus says in the gospel of John which comes 600 years earlier here You'll see it. So in chapter 22 verse 6 to 7 says that is because Allah is the truth and haq that's one of the names of Allah and because he gives life to the dead and because he is over all things competent. Now here's an interesting part in verse 7 and that the hour is coming no doubt

about it that Allah will resurrect those in the grave. See only Allah gives life and resurrects the dead and he's the truth. Well if I go to the Gospel of John chapter 5 Jesus said all those things but he applied it to himself. If you open up John chapter 5, you're going to have to open up the entire chapter because we're going to look at verse 21. So now watch here.

Now watch Jesus say what the Quran says of Allah, but he says it's 600 years before Muhammad showed up. So who's plagiarizing whom? It's not Jesus plagiarizing Allah. Now watch here. If he goes to John 5, he'll open it up.

Verse 21.

Yeah, we're gonna open up the entire chapter, if you can. If you go to BibleGateway.com, you're gonna find Bibles galore. You mean I'm moving faster than the great Rob? What happened, Rob, brother? See, you can't keep up with the Assyrians,

especially if he's J John 5, just put John 5, it's gonna open up. Now remember what Allah said about Allah, he's the truth, he gives life. Yes. And then the hour is coming where he will raise the dead.

Sounds familiar.

Oh, John 5, 21. Watch here. Let's go here. 21, now watch.

Right in the middle.

For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it. So father and son both give life. But in 25, if you watch verse 25, verily, truly I tell you now this translation, NIV says a time. The little translation is an hour is coming.

If you read it, it's an hour because NIV is more of a paraphrase. So some Bibles do not translate literally because in translating literally, you lose meaning. So they have to paraphrase. So this is a paraphrase. In fact, we Assyrians can relate.

If I say, if you translate English and I say, what the hell are you talking about?

Right?

Yeah. That's how it is with languages. So sometimes you can't translate literally you got to translate meaning but literally it says very truly I tell you an hour is coming and has now come When the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God not Allah The Son of God and those who hear will live now 28 29 says something amazing because the Quran says

The hour is coming have no doubt about it. Well Allah will raise them from their graves But who does that according to our Bible do not be amazed at this for a time is coming, have no doubt about it, well Allah will raise them from their graves. But who does that according to our Bible? Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out. Whose voice?

The son of God.

So if I were to compare what Jesus says of himself with what is said about Allah, clearly Jesus claimed to be God because the things Jesus says is ascribed to the Islamic deity not to a prophet So a prophet cannot speak this way if Islam is true. So what did they tell you your Bible's corrupt another passage? Oh, you brought it up John 14 6, right? We read that. I'm sorry notice there

He says I am the way and the truth when the names of Allah and the life So clearly the Jesus of history is not Esau. He did not announce the coming of Muhammad. So from a Christian perspective, as offensive as it may be, facts are facts. If we all believe the same thing, we'd be the same religion. According to the New Testament, it's going to hurt people. Muhammad is an Antichrist. That's the New Testament teaching. Because what is the criteria for an Antichrist?

1st John chapter 2, 22-23 tells you. Who is the Antichrist? He who denies the Father and the Son. Islam says Allah is not a father and Jesus is definitely not a son. In fact in chapter 9 of the Quran, verse 30, you know what it says? And the Jews say Uzair is the son of Allah. To this day, scholars are baffled.

Who is this Uzair? And what Jews said it? Now some translations will tell you that Uzair is Ezra, the prophet, but the context is the call to Jihad. A lot of people don't know that one of the last chapters before Muhammad died, now again we're basing this on the Muslim sources. There are people who question the Muslim sources. They say well, yeah because…

Muslims.

They're not in Muslim countries they can't. But you'll have Muslim academics who will tell you, yeah these are later traditions, they're embellished. And not all Muslims believe in what they call the Hadith. Now the largest group of Muslims identify Sunni. In fact you had two of them debating when they were here.

They would be Sunni Muslims. One of them was a Salafi. So though they are Sunni...

Daniel or...

Jacob...what was his name? Daniel...

The other guy, Jake.

Hagiraju... Daniel Hakikachu and Jake Brancatala. Jake, I don't know if it's short for Jacob. Now he's a Salafi. There are differences among them. And though they belong and again I'm not saying these differences prove Islam as false because we got differences among Christians right I mean look fair is fair Islam is not monolithic neither is Christianity right there are flavors of Christianity but point being the largest group of Muslims would identify a Sunni but in that Sunni branch you have people called

Salafis they have a view of Allah that the other Sunnis do not share. We can get into that. So not all Muslims believe in the Hadith. Though it's the largest sect, they would follow what they call the Hadith or the Sunnah. You have Shia. They have their own traditions. In fact, if you come from Iran, it's a Shia majority, right? They would not accept the traditions of Daniel Haqiqa Chou, so when they quote Bukhari, they reject it. They go, we don't follow Bukhari, we have, you know, Ka'fi, Qulayn, they have their own traditions. And then there are a group of Muslims who only follow the Quran.

They're called Quran-only Muslims. So because you know, you're the Muslims Well, I don't accept that I don't care what Bukhari says. I don't care what Muslim says So I have to now stick with the Quran and show them why there are holes in the narrative And the point i'm getting at is that in islamic theology Specifically sunni. There are certain attributes names of allah that no creature can ascribe to themselves. Some of the names I just showed you, but Jesus ascribed to himself.

So now we got a problem. In chapter 9 of the Quran, according to the Sunni tradition, this is one of the last chapters Muhammad gave before he died. These are his final marching orders. And in his final marching orders, if you want to look at chapter 9, it starts at 28 all the way to 33.

This is again, according to the Sunni narrative. Now if you accept the Sunni narrative, then this is one of the last surahs. But if you are one of those Muslims who say, no, these are just later embellishments, well then you have a hard time because you can't situate the Quran. How do you know when the Quran was written? It doesn't tell you.

It doesn't even give you a chronology. If you go to Sunni tradition, there are two periods in the compilation of the Quran. There's what's called the Meccan period and the Medinan period. Mecci, Medani. Again, based on the Islamic narrative, for the first 13 years, Muhammad preached in Mecca, the tone of those chapters that are attributed to that period, very different. To you, be your religion, to me, my religion.

Because he's outnumbered. He doesn't have control. And if he does try to make an attack, they'll squash him. So when you read those chapters from that period, if we take the traditional Sunni narrative, very tolerant. Let's get along.

You know, hey, you don't believe my religion, that's fine. To you, your religion, to me my religion. That's like chapter 109 of the Quran says it, you know, to you, your religion, to me, my religion. That's what they'll often quote, but they quote in the context when they're outnumbered.

Then you have what's called the Medinan period, the period where he now goes to Medina and he becomes head of state, the tone changes. It goes from to you, your religion, to me, my religion, then you enter Medina, okay now, since they oppressed you, you can fight back. Self-defense. Then the final stage is chapter 9.

Now he's amassed a large number of soldiers, according to the narrative, right? One of the greatest scholars in my opinion questioning the narrative, you had him, he debated, Robert Spencer if you want what I consider to be one of the most knowledgeable Christians on the historical Muhammad as well as political Islam you won't get any better than Robert Spencer so if you ever want to talk really oh he's amazing right

interesting no he's got a he's got a lot he gets a lot of hate and he's got a lot of controversy behind them I mean when I announced that I'm bringing him. They were furious about bringing Robert Spencer

Yeah, he's my estimation. You know how people say this guy's the best and that's an ego thing May God crush our pride, but my estimation I don't think there's someone more knowledgeable in political Islam and historical Muhammad than Robert Spencer from a Christian perspective.

Interesting.

He would be part of your, if you ever get an A team, he'd be part of it. Now I mention him only because he would question these sources. But if you're a Sunni, because now my audience is now the Sunni Muslim, like whoever it is, if it's Daniel. According to the tradition, chapter 9, one of the final marching orders, he's amassed a large number of soldiers. Now he's telling them, go and expand Islam.

It's no longer defend yourself, it's now go and expand Islam, politically, economically, socially. That's the context of chapter 9, 28 to 33. But now notice, Muhammad has to give them a pretext to attack. Okay, why are we attacking these people? You're going to see, it doesn't say because they threatened you. This is the Islamic narrative.

It's because they believe differently from you. Writer, black and white, you're going to see it. So they don't think I'm lying. And if they want to get the commentators, Ibn Kathir, we're going to have a field day,

brother.

They can't tell me it doesn't mean this. Wait, wait, what did Ibn Kathir or Qurtubi say? Right. Chapter 9, 28-33, we're going to read it, O you who believe! Now this translation says polytheist, but the term, Mushrikoon, Mushrikeen, it's much more broad than simply a polytheist. The term comes from shirk.

What is shirk? According to the Quran, shirk is the one sin Allah will never forgive. But what is that? When you claim there are multiple divinities or Allah shares his glory or attributes or sovereignty with a creature or God as a son you fall under that category so according to Islam all of you are shirkers you're a mushrik whether you

like or not why because if they ask you do you believe Jesus is God's son? Mushrik you believe Jesus is God's son? Mushrik. You believe he's Lord? Mushrik. Now the Quran says to fight you and to the victor goes the spoils or you pay what's called Jizya. We're gonna get there. So, oh you believe or have believed indeed the polytheists are unclean so let them not approach Al-Masjid Al-Haram. Now without the traditions you have no idea where this is. It's a tradition that tells you this is the Kaaba in Mecca.

But if you just went with this, you'll have no idea where this is. What the heck is Masjid al-Haram? But this means Mecca, the Kaaba. Don't let them approach, after this, their final year. What year, see? Without the Islamic narrative, you don't even know what year this is. This is two years before the

death of Muhammad, right? But I can't tell, I mean what year buddy? Doesn't tell me. And if you fear poverty, now why is it saying fear poverty? The Islamic narrative says that they would make pilgrimages to this day the Muslims do it, to circumambulate the Kaaba seven times, run between the two hills, Saf and Marwah seven times, throw seven stones at Satan, which they claim was instituted by Abraham, but there is no evidence for that. These are pagan practices. So when the people would come, they would barter, they would sell, they would trade. So it's saying, well if you fear by banishing them,'re gonna lose money don't worry Allah will

enrich you from his bounty if he wills and well it's if he was we say inshallah but here it's you know if he was now how will he enrich you this is the question I want you to see by having you fight the infidels and taking Jizya from them that's verse 29 it says it right there Fight those who do not believe in Allah. Does it say fight those who threaten you? Fight those who attack you?

Fight those who want to take your land? No, no. Fight those who do not believe in Allah. Or in the last day. Well, I don't believe in the Allah of Islam. Now, I know people say, well, it's just a name. That's not my debate.

I have no problem using the term Allah. The Allah of the Quran is not the God of the Bible.

So different gods.

Absolutely. Okay. But now you have to qualify that. Do you think the average Muslim even knows the differences?

Probably not.

Absolutely not, they don't. They're told that this God is the God of Abraham. They're told Jesus is a mighty messenger. So you have to distinguish between what the sources say in the person because if I interview an average Christian how many of them know what the trinity is? How many know that Jesus is the God-man? That you must believe he's God and man? If I ask Christians is Jesus a man in heaven or a spirit? I've done

that they'll say he's a spirit. No he's not. The Bible says he's a glorified man in heaven with a glorified physical body of flesh and he's going to come back in the flesh. So how many Christians know that they're supposed to believe that? You'd be surprised.

Ask Christians, say, hey.

I understand.

Yeah, so here, if you don't have the same idea of Allah, they do, that's pretext to fight you.

And Sam, not to go, when you say fight,

is that fight to kill? No, it's UFC. Okay, I wanna make that clear, clear that you're saying fight fight should be they're trying to kill you UFC championship what's wrong with you okay my bad Syrian in you bro yeah okay yeah please continue so and the last thing now real quickly let me describe Islamic last day because I want to show the audience who don't know Islam how graphic this is the last day in Islam means if you pass the test you will

enter Jannah you'll enter. You have maidens of pleasure, Hurul Ain. I can give you even a reference, very graphic, chapter 78, 31, 33. It says that they have swelling breasts, breasts that don't sag. And the Quran says you'll spend all eternity deflowering them. But you won't harm them and they'll return. When I say Quran, Quran says you'll have sex with them, but the Hadiths go graphic.

You will be deflowering them, but you won't hurt them, they'll return virgin again. So this is the pleasures of paradise. And you're gonna have wine, and you're gonna have milk, and you're gonna have meat, and young boys serving you. Youths of perpetual freshness. Now why the hell do I need a young boy in paradise to serve me? Well, things to make you go hmm. But that's the last day. Oh, you brought it up, huh? See? Full-breasted. Companions of equal age. Yeah, so that means you don't need breast

implants in paradise. It's free of charge. Perfect. It's impressive. You see why they love us, don't you? When we come here, we're going to go back to 30, open 30. So now, why should you fight them? I'm sorry, 29. Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the last day, who do not consider unlawful what Allah and his messenger have made unlawful.

So if you don't accept Muhammad's restrictions, like don't eat pig meat, grounds to fight you. Am I making it up? It's right there. Why do you fight them? Who do not consider unlawful what Allah and his messenger have made unlawful? So what you do not forbid and Muhammad has forbidden, you are now an enemy and need to be brought into submission. And who do not adopt the religion of truth. Now guess what that religion is?

Buddhism? It's Islam. So if you do not accept Islam, what must they do? Fight you? Even those who are given the scripture, meaning even if they're Jews and Christians. Many people may not know this, but those who are in the field will know. One of the titles given to Jews and Christians is Ahl al-Kitab, the people of the book. Why? Because the Quran assumes the same God that gave the Quran gave

the scriptures to the Jews and Christians Because it says he's the God of Abraham, right? And it says this is a religion of Abraham. So even if you're a Jew Christian, but you deny Muhammad or Allah said to the Muslims fight them until they pay jizya. Why? Willingly while they are humbled as a sign of your humiliation. That's how Allah will enrich you Thank the Lord. There's really no Islamic state that enforces this. Praise the Lord Jesus Christ. Right? I mean if you ask me

is there an Islamic state? No there isn't. Are some countries more Islamic than others? Yes, but there is no truly Islamic state. Right? That implements what the Quran and the Sharia puts. But you understand this is how Islam expanded. Go find people where they're at, invite them to Islam, and if they accept, they're safe. If not, take the jizya from them,

and if not, kill them, and to the victor goes the spoils. Another thing, this related to Christ. Why then should you fight Jews and Christians? Verse 30. The Jews say, Ezra is the son of Allah, but it's not Ezra, it's Uzair. They tell you it's Ezra.

But with that said, there's not any shred of historical evidence that the Jews ever worshipped Ezra as the unique son of God. Doesn't exist. So where does this come from? Well, the Muslims say, well, there was a particular group at a particular time, but those are the Muslim sources. If you ask them, can you give me any pre-Islamic

or sources besides Islam that there were Jews who worshiped Ezra or whoever, no, they can't find it. But now watch, the Jews say Ezra's the son of Allah, and the Christians say the Messiah's the son of Allah. Now, there they got us. If I ask you guys, do you believe Messiah is the son of Allah? Do you believe Jesus son of God? Yes, it says for that reason they must fight you

It's right there The son of Mary and they were not commit. I'm sorry you skip to 31 That is what they say with their mouths. See that's something you just say for him. You made it up Imitating the sayings of those who disbelieve before may Allah destroy them How do you think Allah's gonna destroy destroy he's gonna come down on a horse who do you think he's gonna use it to destroy you the jihadis am I making ups right there nope this is the context of jihad this is

what Islam this is Muhammad's final marching orders whether you like it or not if they become predominant majority and if they're zealous now thank God most Muslims are not they have to do this

Sam how many times have you read the Quran? I

Don't know really maybe once or twice. I don't know. No, stop it. No, I'm sorry. I don't Literally you've read it maybe once or twice. Yeah, how do you remember everything as I was trying said? I think we said off there in the 90s. I realized Honestly when I would have a conversation, verses would pop in my head. So it's not I trained for it, and I don't want people to be impressed by it, right?

Oh, what was it? No, knowledge puffs up, love builds up. I got a lot of issues that I pray God will show me mercy on the day of judgment, but I just realized maybe it's God's way of gifting me. How many times have you read the Bible? If I go back, I probably read it two or three times. Two or three times? I don't really read it all the way through. Like now, it's just like, you know, I'll go through it

you know, maybe read a psalm here or there or if I'm researching it, it's

I guess like when they drop, really I was dropped a massive because when I sat down with Charlie Kirk and and we would talk to him off-camera He would say he studies three hours every day. Yeah, no matter what he reads and studies three hours every day Yeah, do you have a ritual of studying a lot every day? Do you read a lot every day? Not that way. What I do is I'm always on my blog writing posts for people if not doing livestreams, so I'm not studying I'm writing to equip people with articles so they can use it in battle Because I want to equip people so because look

If the Lord tarries I'm gonna die so at six and a half This nine-year-old comes to you at that time at that time. What's your relationship with your dad at six and a half? My dad walked away when I was probably seven, shortly right after that. So it's right around that time that this is happening to you. Got it. Okay. So that had a massive impact on you.

Huge. Huge. So is that a moment for you where your biological father walked out, but your spiritual father is going to be with you forever? Did that give you that peace as a young man?

Yeah, Raymond was...

Young boy?

Yeah, Raymond was pretty much my dad, even though he was nine. And his grandmother, my mother was a wonderful woman. She left a wonderful legacy, but she wasn't educated in scripture. So, but his grandmother was my spiritual mother. Raymond's, Raymond's Raymond. Yeah, because his mother died when he was young. So his maternal grandmother raised him and his brother How much time did you spend with her? I think from six and a half to ten How often like every day every day we'd go I'd hang out with him every day. We'd go to the house

She would teach us prayers. She would or he would she would she in fact because of her impact I still remember Now I know it's part of the liturgy of the Assyrian Church, but I didn't know that back then. She taught me this. And for some reason those prayers, Qadisha alaha, she taught me that. She also taught me the Ave Maria, but in a different way from where, you know, like Buccelli says it. She taught it this way. Now guys, I'm not a singer, and I'm not going to give up my day job.

So she taught it this way now guys I'm not a singer and I'm not gonna give up my day job so she taught it this way Ave, Ave, Ave Maria so I remember that for some reason it stayed in my mind right she was a wonderful woman. Six and a half years old was

Raymond's grandmother friends with your mother? No. They didn't know each other?

No they were they were in the neighborhood so you know you know how you meet people high and by you know, but you're Chicago Yeah, it wasn't like, you know, we're cousin. No, just he was taught to go soul winning. So when he won me He took me to his grandmother and she teach us prayers. And what what was the denomination? She was Catholic his Uncle on his mother's side became Baptist. So later on at 18 years old when that security guard, the guy you're working with at the valley at this Bob's city, when you worked there and he introduced you to the nation

of Islam and you know, Farrakhan and all these guys at that time, would you say pre meeting

Kim you'd consider yourself a Christian or your lost teenager kind of going through?

Yeah, I had pretty much turned my back on Christianity. When you left at 10 years old? It was about 13. When he hit 10 he relooked but yeah it was I think he was 10 he moved and I started slipping but around 13 I

was just gone. Yeah so 13 to 18 there's nothing? No. No church, no mentor, no father figure, no nothing. Yeah. Did you go to college? Are you a good student in school? No. What are you doing in school?

Uh, I was such a good student I got that honor of high school.

Third year. Yeah.

In high school?

Yeah.

And this is Chicago?

Yep. Then I got a G.D. and never been to college, never been to San Mary, never been to university. You know what what class came easy to you? Are you a math guy? Are you an English guy? You history guy or you I liked history but not in school I just hated being in school because of my body dysmorphia and low self-esteem. I couldn't be around crowds Were you in gangs? Were you a troublemaker? Were you I was with the gangs, but I wasn't the tough guy I mean, yeah, I hung out with like the Assyrian Kings In Chicago. Surrey and Kings, right? So 18 years old you meet this guy.

Did you ever convert and become a Muslim or no?

In my heart I believe Muhammad was a prophet but it's not good enough because if you go with Sunni Islamic tradition you have to take the Shahada in front of at least two witnesses. But the guy who was talking about

Islam, he didn't take me to a mosque, he just was talking and then I started. My curiosity is such that when I get into something, I have to study it. So if I backtrack, like when I like Bruce Lee, I add up every book on Bruce Lee and I would devour hours into Bruce Lee.

I had to know this guy inside and out. When it came to bodybuilding, I would devour every bodybuilding magazine There was Arnold Schwarzenegger's encyclopedia. You know that? Something about me, when I'm into something, I eat it up and nothing else matters. It's like, I'm just focused on this. The world can go to hell.

I mean, God forbid, but you know, I'm not, I'm. And so whatever I focus on becomes the entire center of my life. Everything I do revolves around that. So during this time time I'm thinking, I've deceived myself, I'm gonna make it to Hollywood.

The Lord had a sense of humor.

At 18, at 18.

Yeah, when I was bodybuilding, my goal was that I'm going to get into Hollywood like these guys, Bruce Lee did martial arts, I'm gonna do it somehow. I'm gonna do it somehow.

So are you watching Jean-Claude van damme. Are you watching all these movies? Are you watching watching them? But they never compared to Bruce I would watch Bruce Lee. You know, who's a big Bruce Lee guy Dana white? Yes, you go to his gym in his office Bruce Lee quotes Everywhere when you walk into his office. There's a Bruce Lee quote on the wall in his office like Dana's a Bruce Lee fanatic. So he does think he's a real day. He's not a fake, huh? No, no, no No, he's based on the way I had when I was with him It was a lot of respect for him. His quotes are all over his gym everywhere as he could okay, so 18 years old now is he discipling you is this guy the song did he bring you anywhere?

Did you meet somebody that someone did you meet any of the big names? Nope on a nation of Islam, nothing. It's all independent identity. I just went searching, went to bookstores. 18 years old, there's no internet. There is internet, but there's not the Google and all that stuff because your age, where you're at. I don't remember using internet at that time either. It was more the AOL chat or whatever it was.

You remember that, the slow one.

Yeah, that's right. Net zero and all of that, yeah, so okay so at this time you're going through it, and then you read the Quran and you go through your phase What are you doing occupation wise? What are you doing to make money at that time?

I was working security and sometimes I'd work as a tow truck guy just by time to get into I'm serious I was really I really thought I was delusional all right, but how did I find? How did I research I just go to bookstore. There was a Muslim bookstore in Chicago, north side Devon. There was actually two. One of them is still there.

If the people are watching, they'll know what I'm talking about, it's by Devon, California. It's called Iqra. But in the 90s, it was not at that same spot. So I'd go buy Muslim books. Now, we still have Barnes and Nobles, but at that time, we also had Borders. You guys remember Borders? Yeah, I love Borders more than Barnes and Nobles.

But I don't know, man, I just, I don't know, I just liked it. Maybe the colors, who knows? But I would go there and try to get books, and Muslim bookstores, obviously, but what really did it for me is,

I would buy VHS tape debates. We're living in a time of the VCR, VHS. I know some people say, what is that, right? I think it's like the way of the dodo bird. Betamax and we had VHS. So they would sell Muslim Christian debates. Now all those debates are online on YouTube,

but that time we didn't have YouTube. So I bought them, and I'll tell you how I got into apologetics because that was because of some Muslim guy who challenged me but when I watch the debates I'm designed in a weird way. I learn more from attacks on the faith than I learn from defending the faith because it forces me to think. So I was watching the Muslims slaughtering the Christians and it got me

to think how do I answer this guy? So that put a fire in me to find answers. Now I was never discipled. I didn't have a pastor. I didn't have a priest. I didn't have... I had to just rely on God's spirit to guide me to the right sources, find the right, let's

say authors or listen to the right Christians. But when it came to Christian Muslim debates, the Christians were getting slaughtered. I cannot tell you of any Christian that I think won a debate decisively in the 90s. There were some close, but for some reason the Muslims were slaughtering the Christians.

What was their angle? What angle did they take that Christians didn't have a way to defend themselves?

Even when it came to Christian topics, the Christians were doing bad. Like is the Bible God's word? You would have scholars like, in fact, it's on YouTube, like the late Dr. Gleason L. Archer, who was professor emeritus of, now it's closed, but in Deerfield, Illinois, you had Trinity Evangelical Divinity Seminary. This man was a beast. Now he's since been with, he's gone with the Lord. He would read and write 25 languages. He's amazing.

But when it came to debate, he was getting slaughtered. And by neophyte Muslims who don't know biblical languages. And on topics you think it would be easy for him. He was just getting slaughtered. You'll find on YouTube, Leeson Archer, Muslim debates. Disappointing. Trinity, getting slaughtered.

Topics that we should win. It's one thing when you're debating a Muslim topic you're not familiar with and you know you have the advantage you're a Muslim but when it comes to your own topics and you are... and he is brilliant but he's not a debater. See you'll see some of the debates right there. Gleason Archer versus Jamal Badawi, the authenticity of the Quran. I mean it was heartbreaking because I'm not a scholar I'm just a you know teenager and these scholars, you know Is there a response so to tell you how I got into this so see how God works

When I finally did embrace Christ and realized that Muhammad was deceived an antichrist first John 2 22 23. I Had a friend who used to teach me out of box because I used to teach him out of bodybuilder I don't want to mention his name I don't know what happened to him since. I don't want to mention his name. I don't know what happened to him since. And I don't want to get him in trouble. I don't know if he's still in the faith,

but he was from a Bosnian background. His father was a boxing coach. And so he would teach me boxing. I would teach him how to lift weights. Because remember, I'm going to him about Christianity, he started getting interested. Now remember, he's Muslim background.

Bosnian Muslim background.

Interesting.

So he started not going to the Jummah prayers, Friday prayers, and his community college, Wright College. So the Muslims started noticing. So they asked him, what's going on? He goes, well, you know, I'm starting to get into Christianity. Who's the guy who's been influencing you?

Well, I'm a neophyte. I'm green. I don't know much about it. I'm just learning. So I met a couple of his friends. They brought in a big gun.

I don't want to mention his name. I don't want to give him publicity. South, is it South Asia? We'll leave it at that. He walked in the church that I was in, it was a Korean church. He had like a folder, you know, binder, I don't know what they call it, but you know, we don't have it anymore. But he came in, he opened it up,

you know, where they have those rings, paper. It was ready, man, he had a combat kit. It's called the, later on I realized they call it the combat kit. In fact, it was made famous by another Muslim debater named Ahmad Didat. Ahmad Didat, who since deceased in 2005, he became famous when he debated Jimmy Swigert as the Bible God's Word. And from the Muslim perspective, Swigert got destroyed.

That made him international. He's from South Africa. If you look at it from a logical perspective, he't win but debates are not won on substance. It's won on rhetoric Personality and flesh and he's very charismatic He's another guy carried Jimmy Swagger did but he won if you look at just the facts So I heard one but the rhetoric and the confidence of need art. He was a very huge fellow

Right just impressed and bedazzled the Muslims. He was the biggest Muslim debater at that time. The second biggest was Jamal Barghu, who debated Gleeson Archer. But coming back to this guy, you'll find it here. Didat, Ahmed Didat, Jimmy Swagger. See? These are some of the historic debates that are setting the ground for future apologists. Some of the debates.

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So this guy had a combat kit, because if you put in ahmadi.combatkit, he wrote books for Muslims to take, right, there it goes, see, Against Bible thumpers. This guy had his own combat kit. So funny. Yeah, so what he did was he had verses of Bible that contradict. If it's God's Word, then what about these contradictions? Now I'm green, I don't know nothing. I have no idea, brother. I just came into faith. Give me a

break. No, he came... This is one other reason people say, why are you so aggressive? You know, you're very, like sometimes you can be very nasty. Because I think what he did to me impacted me because he was very nasty to me and he bullied me. And there's something about me that triggers me. When I feel I'm bullied, right, that's it, yeah,

I'm a D-dot, yeah, so.

Would you feel you're bullied?

Yeah, I've been bullied, but sometimes I've been the bully because to my shame, but when I get challenged, something kicks in. It's not like I want to be this way and I go into like, I got to take you out. Now I'm not a fighter physically, so how do I do it? I do it verbally. Because the way he approached me, now had he approached me maybe in a nice manner, things

may have been different. He was nasty, showed me no compassion, wanted to humiliate me, and he did.

Is this recorded?

No, he did, he humiliated me. I had no idea about the Bible because he would give me verses and then the Trinity, well, how can Jesus be God? And I was destroyed, disgraced, and I was discouraged. How old were you at the time? I was close to, I think I was already in my 20s,

it's in the 90s. And my buddy was there, I almost gave his name, I don't want to give his name, Lord help me not to mention his name. I almost came out. He was there to witness it.

But he didn't like, lose his faith in Christianity. So I remember going at night and I started praying and this was my deal with God. I said, God, if you give me answers to these questions, I swear to you, I will commit my life to never allowing another Christian to be humiliated ever again by a Muslim. And that set the emotion.

So when you made that prayer, what happens next? What is given to you?

The Lord is just directing my steps here. Read this, read that, study this. So you know how...

Debate with Ahmad Didad. How many people are around while this is taking place?

I didn't debate Didad. I debated someone who was an admirer of him.

So you debated the realtor that used the manual that he created to debate you?

That was influenced by him. Now he has his own manual, but he had his manual that was influenced by D dot I got it. So it's not but he's the trendset. He's the one I got it, right? He sells his own but this guy had his folder with all is this realtor guy still preaching or no? Is he still out there? You know this thing or no the last time I saw him glory to God vindication I'll just tell you a little ego cuz you know, he's serious., we gotta win, right? When I came back a couple years later, he ran between his tail between his legs and I felt vindicated.

That was the last time, so I don't know if he's alive or dead. So that was in your 20s, that's a long time ago. Yeah, so that's in the 90s, and he was already maybe in his 40s, so I don't know. Got it. that what what who came into your life? No one person.

It was still the spirit guiding me. That's why I was saying I would go to stores and I've met few Christian authors and lecturers but it's all on VHS but it wasn't how they shaped me when it comes to defending defeating Muslims I learned a lot from two individuals in particular but but their approach was good, but it wasn't like, devastating. The two names that really influenced me when it came to refuting Islam, and they're actually

online for the website I write for, answeringislam.info, John Gilchrist. He wrote a series of booklets and books, because he was also in South Africa. He was the response to Didad. So if you go to answeringislam.info, I'll walk you through it. Answering Islam, all right, yep.

Now if you look at individual authors, if you go down to the red, right there, individual authors, you're gonna see John Gilchrist. It's, yep, that man right there. He wrote a series of books and booklets responding to Didad. I learned a lot from him. But his arguments were not devastating. So he, if you want to say, I would say he's

an influence. Another man that really influenced me because he taught me how to think logically is even here, I'm just saying the website, if you go to William Campbell, William Campbell is right there to your left, all the way to your left, Campbell, and then right there, you see?

Right in the middle, right?

He wrote a book, The Quran and the Bible, Light of History and Science. If you click on that, phenomenal book. Phenomenal book. That book, man, I ate it up. Because he was writing a response to a man named Maurice Bouquet.

He was the physician for the king of Saudi Arabia. He wrote a book in 1975 I believe, the Bible, the Quran, and Science. So he as a non-Muslim claimed, whereas the Bible is full of scientific errors, the Quran has none. In fact, it's a miracle. No, exactly. That book was being shoved down the throats of Christians. The Bible, Quran, and Science. Dr. Maurice Bouquet. Conveniently he's the physician of the King of Saudi Arabia and he found no mistakes in the Quran. Is that a coincidence? Yeah. No, no. Completely

unbiased. So this guy took him to the, you know, took him to school, obliterated his arguments. That book right there, I can say, I probably read that book maybe 20 times. Because he introduced, there's a chapter talking about deductive reasoning, right? And, you know, how to think logically and how to avoid the etymological fallacy or how to avoid chronological fallacy where you read a later meaning of word into an earlier period of time So you can't do that. So if a word means X now that doesn't mean I had the same meaning 300 years ago

So you cannot apply modern definitions to words in an earlier context You have to see how those words were used at that time. He blessed me because the Muslims. Oh, yeah Well, the Arabic means this well that mean it means this now What did it mean at the time of Muhammad? Because words evolve, like even the word pig ironically. A hundred years ago, now you put it, and one of the entries, a metaphorical slur, policeman,

cop, right? That would be one of the definitions. Was that the meaning 200 years ago? No. So words evolve. So you can't tell me because the Arabic means this now, it meant that at the time when the Quran is written. So he taught me on a thing critically. Now the only problem is

this guy debated Zakir Naik and I was in the audience and sadly he got slaughtered by Zakir Naik so his book was discredited. William Campbell. Yeah he got, because he's not a debater. He was an older gentleman. See some people, see if you want the most effective take down of anything, you got to know people's strengths and weaknesses and you got to then put them in their areas of strength, keep them away from areas of weakness.

So if I know you're a phenomenal speaker but not a debater, I'll let you speak. This guy's a devastating debater, he'll do the debates. If you're a phenomenal writer, not a good speaker, you do the writing. And if you're specialized, let's say, in the Trinity, you only talk about the Trinity. He specializes in destroying, let's say, Hinduism. You don't deal with anti-Trinity. That's not your field.

Stay in refuting Hinduism. You're great at Islam, you don't deal with Jehovah's Witnesses. You suck in that. Here's a guy, that's how you got to do it. You got to know people and there is a saying like Robert Spencer, you won't find anyone better in political jihad and historical Muhammad. You put them there, he's going to shine. No one's going to touch him.

So you got to know the person and put them in their area of expertise. So like me, I don't know much about science. I don't know much about atheism. The most stupidest thing I can do is debate an atheist because if it's about the glory of Christ, I don't want to go embarrass myself and destroy faith. So let me bring those lions, Christians who spend their time eating up atheists. So that's how you have to strategize. So Campbell was a great writer, not a great speaker. He got destroyed by Zachary. This is the debate. Yep. That's a clip from the debate. So whoir Nai. That's the debate? Yep.

That's a clip from the debate.

So who have you debated that's a high-level scholar, known Muslim debater?

That's hard to say. I think it would be my first debate with Shabralli. I think that's the only one credible. Everyone else tried to make a name, but it didn't go too far. There's not many great Muslim debaters, even today. They're popular ones, but that doesn't mean they're great.

Who were the popular ones?

Daniel Hakikachu, very popular. Muhammad Ajab exploded. He's very popular.

Would you debate him?

Absolutely.

You would debate Muhammad Ajab?

Absolutely. In fact, one thing though I have to share because I know how to bring down Islam, you have to know what to debate. This is the problem with many Christians who set up debates, they don't know what to debate. If you want to see Islam destroyed, you have to know what to debate.

And when you propose these debates, they'll try to make 10,000 excuses not to debate them because they'll know it's the end of the century.

Such as what?

The one thing I always start with before I debate a Muslim, what did Muhammad say about

the Bible?

It's called the Islamic dilemma. Islamic dilemma, we put a Muslim in a dilemma. What's the dilemma? Well, just like my New Testament confirms the Old Testament, so as Christians we can't attack the Old Testament. We're stuck with it. So when they tell me, what about these wars in the Old Testament?

I can't say, ah, Jesus told me the Old Testament is God's word. So I got to join with the Jews in defending the Old Testament. Sometimes it's hard. But if I believe Jesus and I believe in his Lordship, he told me the Old Testament is God's word. It's not the Vedas. I'm stuck. You know, we love you Lord, you didn't make it too easy. Right? We have to deal with all these, wipe everything that

brings. Muhammad put them in a similar situation. All throughout the Quran, Muhammad said one of the proofs of his prophethood is that my Quran confirms your scriptures. It agrees with them. No it doesn't. My Bible contradicts your Quran that means the Quran is false But see the Muslims see that and say all you must have changed the Bible But the Quran never says it's been changed They try to take a verse here and there out of context and what you read the context

It'll either refer to the misinterpretation of the text or a particular group in a particular area, but not the entire Community itself. So one side debate that anytime they not the entire community itself. So once I debate that, anytime they attack the Bible, I go, so you agree Muhammad is wrong? Why? He said my Bible is not changed.

You said it is, so that means he's wrong. So are you gonna renounce Muhammad? See, this is how you have to do it. But then they'll come back and say, if they say, well, no, the Bible is right. Well, Muhammad is wrong again Because my Bible says that what the Quran says about Jesus is wrong. So Islamic dilemma damn if you do damn if you don't

See once you do that everything else falls in place

So you would debate him and what what what topics would you debate him on?

I would love to get these guys to debate me Islamic Islamic dilemma, whether the Quran is perfectly preserved, free of contradictions. Does Islam teach Tawheed? Meaning, does it teach the absolute oneness of Allah? Believe it or not, it doesn't. That's what they'll tell you. They'll sell you that script. And does the Bible teach a trinity and or the deity of Christ? These are the foundational issues. Right? These are it. This is where you destroy Islam. Because Islam's bread and butter is, we have the purest form of monotheism. More so than you Christians, you worship three gods, right?

That's a lie from the pit of hell. Islam is anything but monotheistic, if you really study its sources. But if you let them just give you their spiel and quote a verse here and quote a verse there, and catch you off guard? Yeah, it sounds like it's more monotheistic than Christianity. It's actually very polytheistic.

In what way?

Well, if you deal with the Sunni Muslims, let's go with that. Not Quran only Muslims. They believe the Quran is the uncreated speech of Allah. So here's another problem that Christians have. They will debate the Bible versus the Quran. Wrong debate.

Wrong debate. Because the Islamic understanding of the Quran is our view of Jesus. And this is something amended by Muslim scholars. What do I mean? In Christianity, Christ is the uncreated eternal word of the Father who became flesh. Well, that's what they believe about the Quran. The Quran is the uncreated word of God that became a book. So your view of Jesus is their view of the Quran. It's not your view of the Bible. None of us think the Bible is the uncreated Word of God. Impossible. Because God used human authors and used their personalities. So if you're gonna

say it's the uncreated Word of God, then you're gonna say those human authors also aren't created. It doesn't work. But Jesus is the uncreated Word of God. John 1,1, in the beginning was the word. The word was with God, the word was God, and then 14, the word became flesh. So they took that idea of Jesus and applied it to the Quran. Something admitted by Muslim scholars. Now, if the Quran is the uncreated word of Allah,

very easy dilemma. Is the Quran Allah? Is it the same as Allah? Now, in Islamic theology I'll say, it is not Allah and it's not other than Allah. And they'll say, Billah khaif.

It's not Allah, it's not other than Allah. What does that mean? Meaning, no, it's not identical to Allah, but it's not separable from Allah. So it's not identical to Him. Because Allah is not the Quran, Allah has a set of attributes. But here's the problem.

So if you say the Quran is not Allah and it's uncreated, how many uncreated entities do you have? Two. But I thought there's only one uncreated entity. Now they have to sound like Christians saying, though they're distinct, they're inseparable,

so they're one. Oh, welcome to the wonderful world of the trinity. That's the first step. Now I can go further in their tradition. The Quran actually speaks. There are sound narrations where it says on a day of judgment the Quran will appear as a man interceding for you. Now I'm kind of confused on that. If this is a speech of Allah, who is it speaking to? Well it's speaking to Allah. So Allah is speaking to himself? No no no no the Quran is speaking to Allah so it's not Allah. Oh so the Quran has its own

consciousness, it can interact with Allah so they're not the same person, they're different conscious entities but they're inseparable? Wow you're sounding more like a Trinitarian the more we speak. Now if you multiply with the chapters even the chapters speak and they appear. It says chapter 2 and 3 of the Quran will appear as birds and They will cover you with the wings and they'll go before you arguing with Allah to defend you

Does that sound like Islam teaches absolute unity of Allah, let me ask you in regards to The religion itself on how it's grown over the years. And I'm sure as you're going through it, they've had a lot of success. They've grown at a pace where you can look at data on by what you're, you know, the world's going to be a majority Muslim, I think it's 2060 or something like that. 2060, 2070.

And they're not slowing down. I mean, you see the growth they're having in UK in 1980 was only a half a million people living there, give or take. Today they got four and a half million people, five million people living there. And you're seeing London growing the way that it is.

The mayor is a three term, only three term mayor they've ever had, Sadiq Khan. And you're seeing what happened in New York with Mamdani getting elected, right, Muslim, Democratic Socialist. They're growing, okay? On the Christian side, I don't know if, you know, Charlie Kirk played offense. Charlie Kirk was out there doing a lot and getting a hold of young kids who, turning

point USA, wanted to grow up and be able to defend their faith in a strong way, and he was becoming unapologetic, right? The way he was doing it, Charlie was. Yeah. Um, why do you think their church is growing the way that it is?

Yeah. Well, if you look at it really and compare it, it's not really so much conversion. Yeah, they get converts, but even statistics have shown now, I don't know when the last statistic came out, but I remember years ago, one statistic showed that about over 90% of converts leave Islam in five years. Because they're giving a sanitized version of Islam that when they study, they realize it doesn't correspond to what they were taught.

So over 90% of converts leave within five years.

That was a statistic that was mentioned years ago, but find out maybe, yeah, but they don't last the majority of them don't. But those who end up, let's say remaining, it's not much on conversion, but believe it or not, it has to do with procreation. If you look at it, unless they're completely Westernized, right? If they're bought into the Western dream and having more kids means greater financial responsibility

So have less kids if they're not westernized typically they have larger families and because of that if you have a Muslim Who has a wife who has four kids, but then multiply that with two other wives on the side we got problems They're gonna outnumber you but the thing is also we even with that said we have to be careful Islam is not monolithic Just because you have majority Muslims. they don't all believe the same. And many Muslims are secular, they're not even devout Muslims, they're Muslims by name. And secondly, Muslims turn on each other.

So even when we say they're growing, it's not one branch of Islam that's growing. It is simply these populations who are then governed by Islam, many of whom don't know their tradition or they don't have the same tradition, and they're growing because of procreation more so than conversion. And then at times they become their worst enemies. In fact, if I'm correct, I'm not into the political thing, but what about the fights

between Shia and Sunnis, even in recent times? In fact, I've seen videos where you'll find Sunni, the terrorist in Iraq, killing more Shia than non-Muslims. Why is that? Because they think Shia is even worse because of their views of Aisha.

Not all Shia are extreme. So they turn on each other. They're not all in agreement. They're not monolithic. So even when you say, oh, they're going to be over 2 billion. But 2 billion Muslims of different mindsets, of different sects, that don't all agree.

And at times they turn against each other and anathematize one another. Same thing with Christianity. So I'm not trying to say Christianity doesn't have that problem. We Christians, okay, when you say there are two billion Christians, well among those you're counting Jehovah's Witnesses, and you're counting Mormons, and you're counting all these cult groups that identifies Christianity. You're not just counting historic Christian churches. You're not just counting the Catholic

Church. You're counting all who sign off as a Christian, and some of them are Christian by name but live like the devil. So are they really Christian? When you have a Muslim saying he's a Muslim but he drinks and eats pork, and you know they do that. Of course. We've met them, especially in Chicago. My teenage years I had a couple of good Muslim buddies. They were anything but Muslim, right? So it's, to say you're Muslim is one thing, but to say practicing Muslim is how many of you?

Let me ask this, because you know, you'll talk to some people who are Jewish. They'll say I'm Jew ish, right? You know Adam will say I'm Jew ish, you know, I'm not really Jewish and more Jewish You know and but you have that, you know the watered-down, you know Christians Jews and Muslims. Okay, however Which one has more? radical true believers

of their faith? Okay, so forget about the two billion. Forget about the 2.1 billion Christians. Forget about the 15 million Jews. Forget about all those that we can go through. Which one has a bigger percentage of true believers

that they have fully bought into their vision long-term and they're imposing, they're driving?

Yeah. That's the number you got to look at, right? Yeah, but that's the thing, I haven't done any intensive study on Christians who are devout Christians, but you have a revival happening right now. You're having a revival where the youth are not just nominal Christians, they are being sparked up to be on fire for Christ. So this is why I say I can't really give you a number if there are more zealous Muslims than Christians, but to say that in recent times because of recent events

the spirit is moving in such a way that I'm also astonished seeing the hunger among youth to want to now come back to their Christian roots or even, by the way, you're having an explosion of converts of Islam and Muslim lands. They even say that the church is exploding in Africa and in Iran. They go there are a lot of Iranians who become Christian, they're underground.

But even with that said, like I said, when I say Christian, see this is again, we have to be fair. They're converting to a variety of forms of Christianity. Some are becoming Mormons. Well, do we consider them Christian?

Right?

Jehovah's Witnesses or Oneness. So, to say how many are zealous, I'd have to look at the statistics, but we, from my own experience seeing online, I'm seeing the youth come in droves on fire to reclaim their Christian faith and on fire for Jesus. I'm seeing it. When I was doing it in the late 90s, early 2000s, it wasn't the way it is now. So the YouTube is having a huge, well whatever, not just YouTube, but you get what I'm saying, having a huge impact.

It is causing people to look into Christianity and I am seeing a lot of Muslims leave Islam for Christianity, but I am seeing people who convert to Islam, but those are the Christians, and I have to say, very poorly catechized and being given a sanitized version of Islam.

Because I've interviewed people who said, I became a Muslim five years ago, but then I found such and such or such and such, and I saw and I was shocked that this is what Islam teaches, I can't be a Muslim five years ago, but then I found such and such or such and such, and I saw and I was shocked that this is what Islam teaches. I can't be a Muslim anymore, because they give you a sanitized version of Islam.

See, the difference with Jesus Christ, here's the difference. The more you get to know Muhammad is teaching, the more repulsive it turns out to be. The more you get to know Jesus, the more irresistible He is. The more you fall in love with Him. He is beauty in the flesh.

If you want to show a person why not to become Muslim, just compare Muhammad to Jesus. Because Jesus makes everything else look ugly. Because He's just beautiful. What can you say bad about Jesus? I mean even from the Islamic perspective, one of the ways I even argue my case

that Jesus is superior to Mohammed, I use the Islamic Jesus because I don't believe the Islamic Jesus is the real Jesus, right? Because Paul told us, if you go to 2 Corinthians 11, he warned.

He's warning the church. 2 Corinthians 11, verse 104. He's warning the church. He goes look I Converted you basically so you are my spiritual daughter Because he's their spiritual father. He goes I have betrothed you as a chaste virgin to one husband Because the church is the bride of Christ. So this is spiritual It's nothing carnal nothing physiologic because we have to emphasize that because we have people Sick minds who think that Christ is going to come and have a physical wife. No, it's the church, the spiritual bride of Christ, but there is something called spiritual virginity.

Paul uses it. I want to present you as a chaste virgin to one husband, but I am afraid that as the serpent deceived Eve by his cunning, you too will be deceived from your simple devotion to Christ. Now, how does Satan, the serpent, rob us of our spiritual virginity? He says it. In verse 4 he says, because if someone comes and preaches another Jesus than we preached, or a different spirit from the one you received, or a different gospel, you put up with it easily. So he's saying the way Satan makes Christians lose their

integrity, virginity, is by presenting another Jesus and you tolerate it. Well, he's talking about the Islamic Jesus. And I'm not saying he knew about it, but the other Jesus is the Jesus of Islam or Mormonism or Jehovah's Witnesses. It's not the same Jesus. There's only one Jesus. You've got to get him right. So the Jesus that Paul preached was God in the flesh, one with the Father and the Spirit. Any other Jesus is Satan's way of deceiving us.

So when we say to Muslims, yeah, you know, we all honor Jesus. No, we don't. I don't honor your Jesus. Your Jesus is not my Jesus. So but when Christians go with it, Paul says, see now you let the serpent con you.

You just fell for his trick. That's his trick. That's his trick. Yeah, you believe in Jesus, I believe in Jesus. No, your Jesus is Isa, who announced the coming of Muhammad. My Jesus is the God of Muhammad, before whose feet Muhammad will bow and confess he is Lord. Is that your Jesus? They'll say no.

Then your Jesus is not my Jesus. So this is the mindset you have to have.

Go ahead, you want to say something. For women, you know, the part that... I watched this young lady, and I want to ask this because to me, I think about it on what benefit it has, right? This young lady is asking, you know who she's asking, obviously.

Yeah, Zechariah Knight. Yeah, Zechariah Knight, that's right. That's the one who defeated William Campbell.

That's right, that's right. So she's asking him, hey if men go to heaven, they get 72 virgins, what do women get? And this is his answer. Very good question. Go ahead, Rob.

Mother said that if Muslims go to heaven, then they get 72, 72 women, the men. What will the women get? And as far as the first question, your second question, I'll answer first and then come back to your first question. As far as the question is concerned, that if the men go to heaven, they will get 72 purr, that beautiful woman, what will the woman get? The same question was asked to Hazrat Ayesha, may Allah be pleased with her, who is the wife of the Prophet.

So the wife of the Prophet replied that the woman will get that which her heart hasn't desired, what her eyes haven't seen, what your ears haven't heard. So inshallah if you go to heaven you will get something good which inshallah you will be satisfied. But the question is first you have to enter heaven.

If you don't enter heaven you won't get that something which is good.

What does that mean?

Did you see the, he didn't answer the question? He didn't answer it at all. know, pay attention to his trick. Oh yeah, the Quran says, you know, a woman will get what eye hasn't seen, right? Okay, well hold on. Does that mean she's gonna get 70 men? He never said yes. Did you catch that? Because he can't say that. That would be a lie from the pit of hell. So he's an excellent politician. He knows how to get around it. Because if you pay attention, he never said women will get multiple men. He can't say that. So but you're gonna get the lights that are mind-blowing. Okay, I understand that. Does that include that the woman gets multiple men? Oh but you're gonna get what the eye has never seen or the

mind has comprehended. Okay, but does that mean I'm gonna get more than one husband? See this is the rhetoric I'm talking about. What do women get in the Muslim religion? Well, in Islam, you know, can I tell I tell you? You will be part of the Huris that your husband will deflower for all eternity.

Tell me more.

Okay, now let's say you're a good Muslim woman. You married a Muslim man. Now it's difficult to ascertain if you've been married multiple times which Muslim man. But if you pass the test and you had a good Muslim husband, Allah will then make you part of those hoodies for your husband at the flower. You'll be one among many. It's a crappy deal for the girl. Why do you think she asked? And notice he never said, oh you're gonna get 70 men.

He can't say that. He knows he'd be lying. So that means a Muslim woman, she'll have huge breasts, firm breasts, 7'8", 33. She'll be part of the Hurul Ain, you know. If I tell you where that word comes from, our English word whore comes from that word, by the way.

I was just gonna say, it sounds really familiar to whore.

Just throwing that out. Yeah, you know, really, it's not, yeah.

When he said, you're going to be a whore?

I was like, okay, we ain't doing comedy.

Look at his eye, look at his birthday, by the way.

What is it?

October 18th.

He's born on the same day, we have the same birthday, 13 years apart.

Well, thank God. Yeah, thank God. You're a muscular, handsome, Assyrian beast.

Very different, buddy.

Surrounded by muscular beasts, too, but anyway.

My man. So, so, okay. So, so the contradictions of what a man gets versus what a woman gets. If, if I'm a logical guy and I'm truly looking for religion and I'm open-minded and I'm looking to the Christian church, I'm going, you know, studying Judaism, maybe I can go that direction. I'm studying Scientology, LDS, oh, and I'm, and I'm also putting becoming a Muslim, right? 72 virgins. How can I buy into that if I got anything but a B or higher in math in high school? Do you understand what I'm saying? I don't know if you got what I'm saying. So how does the math add up?

Yeah, you mean Islam?

How many billions of Muslim men have died? Yeah. That means there is 72... Like the math... The math, yeah, yeah, yeah.

So help me over...

This is a math question I'm asking.

You underestimate the greatness of Allah.

Yeah.

That's probably what it is.

The problem is Allah can meet the demand by just giving you, just creating as many huralayn as you need. See this is why you're a kafir brother, you don't have faith. Allah can do with no eye, didn't you remember what no eye has seen brother? No heart has come. By the way, that's a plagiarism of Paul. He was quoting Paul because Muhammad took Paul's words. That statement comes from 1st Corinthians 2 verse 9. But Muhammad heard it and misapplied it,

misappropriated it. So if you go to 1st Corinthians 2, you're gonna see that the context is about what God has in store for believers who love him. It's 1st Corinthians 2 9. But Muhammad took it, adapted it, reinterpreted it. So ironically, Muhammad is quoting Paul, not Jesus here. Because if you go to 1 Corinthians 2, you read nine, all the way to 12, you'll see what the context is.

It's in verse nine. What no eye has seen. Wow, sound familiar, brother?

Yeah.

Hmm, what no ear has heard. What no human mind has conceived. The things that God has prepared for those who love him.

Wow, I heard that. Can you play that again? Sounds familiar. Can you play that again? Go ahead. that if the men go to heaven, they'll get 72, that beautiful woman, what will the woman get? The same question was asked to Hazrat Aisha, may Allah be pleased with her, who's the wife of the prophet. So the wife of the prophet replied that the woman will get that which your heart hasn't desired, what your eyes haven't seen, what your ear hasn't heard about.

Weird, I've heard that before.

That means inshallah, if you go to heaven. Pause the rap.

Yeah, that's interesting. So what is, what is the, is that, how much of the selling point of becoming a Muslim is that? Is that a big part of it or is that a small part of it? I mean, why would somebody who's a green, who is open, you know, Muhammad Ali doesn't give me the vibes of being a guy that's

not smart, right? Malcolm X doesn't give me the, you know, vibes of a guy that's not smart. I mean, you're very intelligent. Even Farrakhan, you see, what gets them to say, you know, I'm converting, I'm going, a lot of people I know who, you know who have gone that direction, these are smart guys that I've had dinner with, I've had lunch with, I sit down with them, intelligent,

good citizens, good families, good upbringing, even some of these guys are very good, net positive to society. What is the selling point?

You can be smart in one way and completely oblivious in another way, right? So when you say smart, in what sense? Business smart, okay, but it does not equate to being theologically smart that's true so Muhammad Ali if you really know why he converted it was more because of the emphasis on black supremacy he became a member of the Nation of Islam Nation of

Islam is just black supremacist mindset so when you're oppressed and you have someone saying hey you are the original man and all as a black man and the white man's a devil. If you feel oppressed and inferior, that kind of gives you the false pretext that no, you're special and that's why you're being oppressed. So his conversion wasn't because he knew Islam.

He knew black supremacy, black centric Islam, which is contrary to the teaching of historic Islam. So when you say, why did he, yeah they're smart, but are they smart in religion? Have they studied their sources? Do they understand? Because you have brilliant Christians who are millionaires but don't know a lick of the Bible. So I don't deny their intelligence in one way, but it doesn't mean they understand their sources. Now when you say, is this a selling point?

This is one of the things they don't mention. This is why I was saying that within five years when people study Islam and see the horrific, horrendous aspects of Islam, they're shocked. That's why they accuse us of lying immediately. When I say it, the Quran says it, you're lying. Because they're shocked. So I don't want to give the impression that the Muslims are the villains. They're not. And I'm not saying to be politically correct. Most Muslims

have no idea what Islam teaches. They're just cultural Muslims. They'll go pray five times a day and they just want to get along. It's those fanatical Muslims that are dangerous and they're about 10% if you they say statistically about 10% that are fanatic. But 10% of 2 billion, that's still a large number, right? Most Muslims have no idea. Most Christians have no idea.

Christianity, if I ask a Christian about the Old Testament wars, they're shocked to hear that too. In fact, if I recall in the debate, didn't they bring up some of the Old Testament wars? They try to scandalize the Christian debaters. Because even Christians don't know about, hey, kill everything that breathes. There's a context to that. I mean, Jesus forces us to try and understand the logic. You know, I mean, even when I came to the faith, it was difficult.

But then as I understood and I studied, oh, I understand now. But we can get into that. Point being, just like a Christian will be shocked to hear what's in his Bible, if he's not properly trained, most Muslims are shocked to hear when I say, oh, Hazrat Aisha? He said, Hazrat Aisha. Did you know she was nine when Muhammad deflowered her? You're a liar.

You're lying. Right? But wait, you're so, then they say, well, it was acceptable at that time or no, these are lies. These are later traditions. So not every Muslim is on board because not every Muslim knows. But

if you're convinced, now here's the problem, if you're convinced it's the truth, you're stuck with it. Okay, what option do I have?

In one of the conversations with a woman, she's talking to you about being a Muslim and then you tell the story about how he did something to his wife because she got fat and unattractive and left

her. Oh yeah, Sauda Bin Zama. Yeah. Boy, you've really been watching me. You still like me, invite me?

Oh yeah, I've been watching the last two days. I don't know how many hours of content of

yours I've watched. Yeah, according to, again, you have to go with the Islamic narrative, right? Some people say well that's just later tradition. Surah Al-Nisa chapter 4, 128. If you want to open up, I'll give you the context. 4, 128. You're gonna see the context here. Yeah. Surah Al-Nisa chapter 4, 128. Yeah, if he opens it up. I don't know, I would recommend a browser but I don't know which one the one I have for the website. This is in the Quran? Yep watch here 120 chapter 4 128 not 1 to 28 sorry 128 this is the context of the passage I'm gonna explain it here now if

you're not a Sunni you can reject this if you're Quran only Muslim you can reject this because this is based on the hadith because if you want to know okay what was the context of these verses? They have what's called Azbab al-Nuzul, the occasional reason revelation. So you got to go into the commentaries, you got to go into books and it's, oh, this verse was revealed because of this, but that's not in the Quran.

So someone wants to reject it, they'll say, well, it doesn't say so. He'd be right. But then I'd say, I'd turn back and say, well, what's the context and how do you know? When was this composed? If he tells me on 6th century, I go, well, the Quran doesn't tell you 6th century. How did you get that? Oh, from the same sources I just quoted that you rejected.

Hmm, interesting. So you'll go to them when need be, but when it disproves your point, no, it's now suspect. same sources that told you that this is revealed in Medina and at this year because the Quran doesn't tell you. But nonetheless, if we read it, here's the thing. And if a woman fears from her husband contempt or desertion, there is no sin upon them.

If they make terms of settlement between them and settlement is best. Now, what is that about? If I go to the tradition, Muhammad had at one time, 11 wives, even more than has God allowed for others. If you go to chapter four, verse three, the crown, you don't need to turn there, but four, verse three, it says you can have two or three or four wives. If you, if you can be fair, if not have one, but then it says, and as many as your right hands possess,

say that part is not emphasized. So the Quran allows unlimited concubinage. So while you hear stories when you have people who go to Saudi Arabia to be maids, they don't know they're signing up for sex. That's part of the deal. Because in Islam, if you are a maid or a servant, the man has conjugal rights to sleep with you. You're signing up for that.

That's in chapter 4 verse 3 of the Quran. It's there. I didn't write it. You know, don't get angry at me and put a hit on me or my friends. I didn't write it. Quran 4 3? Chapter 4 verse 3. If you want to show it to them, then we can come back here. You'll see. A maid? Yeah, well it's called your right hand possesses, meaning that which is under your control. Whether a servant or a maid or anything here for and if you fear that you will

not deal justly with the orphans, then marry those that please you of other women two or three or four but if fear that you will not be just then marry one or those your right hands possess. Right hand possession means your concubines you're free to have as many as you want but if you want to marry you can only have up to four. But it doesn't tell you, okay, the four plus the slave girls or the maids.

That's authentic Islam, Sunni and Shiite tradition. There's no, because it's in the Quran, right? So that part seems to have, you know, been glossed over. I guess many people didn't get the memo.

So when you, Go ahead, brother. I'm just curious how so many... I know you're not political, but how so many of these Ilhan Omar and all these women of Muslim faith, like they're my body, my choice and everything, but then every single thing in the Quran is anti them. Like those 72 virgins, Sam, for every guy that goes and has all these virgins like what type of life is it as a Muslim woman

that you die and your eternity is up there having sex with all these guys

like it doesn't make any sense to me.

Well it does one of two things it makes them leave Islam or remember if you've been convinced that Allah is God and this is the only religion well hey what choice do I have? You see, understand? Yeah. Okay, if I have been duped and beyond any reason without convinced this is true, I'm stuck. What do you want me to do Vinny?

Yeah.

This is how Allah, hey, Allah does what he wants. I'm just glad I'll be there. I won't be burning in the fire. See this is the, why do I say you have to be careful demonizing all Muslims? Because many of them are victims of the system. Right? I don't know. I was gonna say something, but anyway, they're victims of the system. But coming to the explanation, I'm gonna explain 4.1.28. Now remember, how many wives can the Muslim have? Up to four. Two, three, or four. Yeah, see, you can have two, three, four. Okay. If you could handle it. Yeah. Yeah. Muhammad had eleven. When he died he widowed nine.

Now what makes it more tragic and disgusting, this is why I cannot believe, if someone knows Jesus he'd leave Jesus for Muhammad. So I say if you want to really get people to never consider Muhammad, say look what Muhammad did compared to Jesus. Jesus's beauty will show you how disgusting these teachings are. Right? Focusing on look at Christ, look at my... In fact, comparing Muhammad to Paul, the Apostle, a glorious holy servant of Christ and all he was was a servant. If you see his

lifestyle, his purity, he makes Muhammad look filthy and by comparison. Just Paul who's not our God in the flesh but nonetheless, only in 4 128 if you go back did Muhammad treat one of his wives unjustly every single wife of Muhammad after he died could never remarry again that's in the Quran you cannot have his wives after him so he left some of them widows Aisha was 18 they say and others in their 20s widows and some of the lived to their fifties without ever being able to marry, have children. This is what he did to them.

And you're telling me he's a mercy unto mankind. Seriously. And what does it tell you about a man who had nine wives and couldn't get any of them pregnant? Right? They say that his first wife Khadija bin Khuwailid, that was his first wife, she was 15 years his senior, she was actually his boss, he used to work for her. If we go with the, again, remember, we're going by the Islamic narrative,

he used to work for her and she was so impressed by his conduct, she proposed marriage and he married her. According to Islamic tradition, she was a wealthy merchant woman because she had married two wealthy men and they died. She left their fortune. And he used to be a caravan trader for her. So she was his boss. According to the Sunni tradition, he married her when he was 25 and she was 40. And so she supposedly mothered all his children.

But every son he had died as a toddler. None of his sons lived even to adulthood. his children, but every son he had died as a toddler. None of his sons lived even to adulthood. Now he only stayed with her until she died. Now I'm going to explain to you why this is significant. After that he went crazy.

He started just collecting wives. All his children, not only the sons died as toddlers, but even his daughters who got married later died The only child that outlived him was his daughter Fatima who then died six months later And she was married to Ali Ibn Abu Talib who's his first cousin and hence you get the Shia and Sunni divide because Muhammad's lineage is traced to his daughter Fatima because she gave him two grandsons Hassan Hussein

This is where the Shia trace Ahlulbayt so this has significance with the Shia and the Sunni they don't get along Fatima right Ali who supposedly the rightful successor Muhammad but he was robbed she gave him his two grandsons because he had no boys he had no successors Hassan Hussein Ahlulbayt the family line of Muhammad supposedly comes from that line but But with that said, oh supposedly he got Khadija pregnant when she was 40, okay we'll give him that. The other wives, he couldn't get any of them pregnant, but then he had

a sex slave, Maria al-Qubtiya. Mary the cop sent to him. He supposedly got her pregnant, she gave birth to his son Ibrahim, and he died when he was two. Okay so maybe something happened. He got lucky with her. There's some questions whether that was really his son but we don't get into that. My whole point is of all these women he only got one woman supposedly pregnant after Khadija, son who died. None of the other women who can get pregnant, not even Aisha who married at nine, left them all childless and widows who could never remarry again.

And he's a mercy unto woman? Where's the mercy in leaving these women without a husband or children for the rest of their days? That's merciful? Women have needs, right? They want companionship, they want intimacy, they want children, and he left them with none of that and you're telling me He's a mercy unto mankind now to show you how cruelly is that's where you're gonna come for 128 Now you're gonna see the cruelty of Muhammad now

You're gonna see how this man is considered a mercy and I have no idea man If he's merciful then you and me Vinnie we're in trouble Now it says if a woman fears from her husband contempt or desertion there is no sin upon them if they make terms of settlement between them. Now the context is Sada bin Zama. She was an older wife of Muhammad. Now when he was married to Khadija he never got married. When she died it says that then he multiplied

wives. Second wife was Aisha. My memory fails me if it was Umm Salama the first one but nonetheless he married her among the 11 wives but he was no longer attracted to her. This is in the Muslim tradition. I don't write this. Sahih Bukhari, Sahih Muslim, you know, they're writing this so I don't want people to condemn me to hell. They can look at any commentary and she feared that Muhammad was going to divorce her. There's even a Hadith in Bukhari that says she would go out to the call of nature,

but because she was a huge fat lady, you, you, you know, you wouldn't miss her. You know, it's her. Hey, what are you doing? We can see you. Right. So it describes a huge fat woman fat lady. So she's a Large woman and an older woman she feared Muhammad is gonna divorce her So she made a deal with him keep me as your wife But you don't have to visit me because part of the deal was

He would have to visit these wives on successive days, but the Quran says it's up to him He could choose not to you know, I'm not gonna see you. I'm gonna see you the Quran says it's up to him. He could choose not to. You know, I'm not going to see you. I'm going to see you. The Kron says it's up to his discretion. That's chapter 33 of the Kron versus 50 to

51. Which wife you want to see and which wife you don't want to see. Yeah, up to you. So

there's not a set schedule calendar you have to follow. So that means you'd be thankful look don't divorce me keep me as your wife now remember each wife has to have her own house and she cannot go out unless there's a need and with his permission so can you manage your under house arrest pretty much you can only go if it's a need or he gives you permission so he has 11 wives 11 homes they have to stay home until he says you can come out or if it's something really like hey I got to run to the toilet. Okay. This woman said don't divorce me, keep you keep me as your wife and the day assigned to me you

can give it to Aisha. So Aisha had two days. The nine-year-old. Yeah and he left this woman in a house all by herself the rest of her days and Then Kron says good agreement if you agree to it no problem So his God said that's the deal go with now. Why did she want to be his wife? See this is again because the Kron says that all of Muhammad's wives will be his wives in paradise So she was hoping that if he didn't divorce her, she'd end up with him in paradise.

See the mindset? Please don't divorce me, let me die as your wife. So at least in paradise, I'll be your wife. And he left this woman alone in a house without, you know, and having no children with her, all because he was not attracted to her and she knew it.

And she said, don't divorce me. Now, if Muhammad was merciful, you know what a merciful God and a prophet would say, what are you crazy? I love you just as much as the first day I laid my eyes on. In fact, I love you more. What do you mean? No, you're my wife and I'm going to honor you. Okay, good deal. Let's go for it. And it's sanctioned in the Quran. See what it says? If a woman fears from her husband contempt or

desertion, there is no sin upon them if they make terms of settlement between them and settlements best. So if you agree to this, all right, good deal, go with it. But who wins in this deal? The men. The men are winning. The women are getting abused. I don't know how in the world this guy is a mercy unto mankind and when people tell me respect my prophet How can I respect such a man who has not only destroyed the people around him?

Sam how much When you walk in the streets How often that have Muslims approached you, you know, what kind of threats are you getting when you're out there saying what you're saying?

Interestingly tik-tok and Instagram the made me famous, not because I wanted to. So if I'm going places, I'll get recognized. But Muslims, even if they recognize me, will try to avoid me. Because remember, unless it's a fanatic wants to kill me, they're not here to kill or go to jail.

So if they even recognize me, they won't come up to me. Because again, this is a stereotype stereotype not all Muslims are killers not all Muslims are terrorists So I haven't run into the 10% Yeah, I haven't run into them. Got it. Yeah, so thank God. Yeah

No, that's a very good thing. You know how to break things down well.

I don't know if I can with this earring.

What happened to Syrians? We used to have a country, you know, the fall of Babel. What happened to us?

If you're asking me from a theological perspective, because Old Testament history, because it's not just prophecy, it's history. Well, we're told in the book of Nahum, if you're asking me now, just as a Christian, see the political landscape from the revelation God has given. Because that's the only source I have, right? I mean, if we can conjecture all we want, your opinion is just as good as mine. But if I

believe the Bible is God's Word, and this is God's perspective, He's a reality. The Lord will often destroy nations who've reached a limit of sin of how much he tolerates. The Bible says there's like a debt ceiling. There's so much sin he tolerates and then that's over for you. So we're told in the book of Nahum, this is the judgment of Nineveh, he says because of the Assyrians being steeped, and it's not just Assyrians, see this thing, God

does this with all the nations. You can just start reading from Isaiah chapter 10 on, all the way you're going to see, all the way to 19. God is talking about the judgment of all the nations, like the Moabites, the Ammonites, the Babylonians. Because why? God owns them all. This is where people must read the Old Testament. They go, oh, this book is the Old Testament and he's the God of Israel. If you read the Old Testament, God keeps saying, I'm the God of all nations. The reason why I'm working through Israel is to move them to worship me.

This is the theme in the Old Testament. And point of fact, I wanna ask you guys a question as I answer this one. When was the last time you were told that there's another group set to be God's people in the Old Testament says there is another

group that is said to be the people of God? It's the very passage every Assyrian and his mother quotes that talks about Assyrian Egypt. In Isaiah 19, 23 to 25, specifically 25, it goes, Egypt my people, Assyria the work of my hands, Israel my inheritance. Does that sound like a tribal God? He says Egypt is my people. So when we read the Old Testament,

sometimes we're misreading it due to particular theological dispositions or political points of view. The God of the Old Testament is quite clear. The response of Israel was to be his priest to lead the nations to him.

And do you know the one group of people that are the most attacked in the Old Testament are the Israelites. Now what that tells me is this is a brutally honest record because if you're making up stories, you're gonna sugarcoat things, right?

Are you talking about the Forgotten Nation of Prophecy by John Bocco? No, I'm not talking about the book. Okay. He wrote a book, I'm talking about Isaiah 19. I get that but he talks about that in the book right? So yeah he's trying to focus on a certain... I actually met him I think he went to be with the Lord. Good man. I don't know if he's still around I saw him years ago but my point about future per se. God in the Old Testament talks about the nations and his love for them and his desire to save them. He doesn't talk about Israel. The

role of Israel in the Old Testament as I'm preparing to answer your question because I want to give a context to the Old Testament because if I just say well God says he's gonna destroy Nineveh, look at this, this Old Testament. No. God says to the Israelites, you see what I do to nations? I'm gonna do worse to you if you don't toe the line. So I know this book is, look, if I'm making up a book, I'm gonna make myself look as good as possible.

The people that are the thorn in God's side that God has the hardest time with are the Israelites. So that tells me this is a brutally honest record that's not trying to sugarcoat and make one people superior. On the contrary, God keeps reminding them, do you dare discriminate against the Gentiles?

If a Gentile comes to live in your midst, treat him as a native Israelite. He's not less than you. And I can give you the receipts. So with that in the context, because what is God's heart for Assyria?

He doesn't want Assyria to die. Isaiah 19 23 to 25 tells you there'll be a highway between the land of Egypt and Assyria and then they'll come and then he goes Assyria the work of my hands. The book of Jonah is all about God wanting no nation to perish not even the Assyrians because he said to Jonah give them 40 days 40 days and the great Sinaita will be destroyed but when they turn to national repentance God turned back from his wrath and then Jonah says something interesting if you go to Jonah chapter 4 verses 1 or 3 if you open up specifically to look what he

says he goes see I know this is the kind of God you are and that's why I wanted to run because I want you to destroy, because I knew if they repented, you would forgive them. Because that's the kind of God you are. You don't want anyone to perish. His hatred for the Assyrians was so great, that he knew if he reached them and they turned, God would spare them, because God loves all people. And this is the God of the Old Testament. Because people always go to the New Testament. No, I'll show you from the Old Testament, it's the same God. So if you open up Jonah chapter 4, verses 1 to 3, you're going to see it. So this is the context in which I will put the book of Nahum. Jonah

4, look at our, and Jonah knows it. Now when I look at you handsome warriors I can see why he wanted you guys wiped out. You were a thorn in the side of his people. But look what he says. Jonah 4, verses 1 to 3. You can open up just Jonah chapter 4.

Yeah, that's it. You don't need to put chapter 4 I think. You just put Jonah and then 4.

It's like man, I can't keep up with this guy. It's not my fault you're not a Syrian brother.

Now watch your... But to Jonah this seemed very wrong and he became angry. Angry at what? He didn't destroy the Ninevites.

He didn't destroy all the Jilus, right? He prayed to the Lord.

Isn't this what I said Lord when I was still at home? Meaning isn't that what I reasoned myself that if they turned you would spare them?

Now, why?

That is why I tried to forestall by fleeing to Tarshish. I knew that you are gracious and compassionate God. Slow to anger and abounding in love, a God who relents from sending calamity. Now Lord, take away my life for it is better for me to die than to live. He hit depression that you didn't wipe out the enemies of my people. You see the God of the Old Testament doesn't want the enemies of Israel to be destroyed.

A very timely message for today. He wants all peoples to be saved. I want you to see this Old Testament. The God of the Old Testament says I don't want the nations surrounding Israel to be destroyed. I want them to turn to be saved because I created them and I love them. They're my creatures. Don't you dare look down upon them because they're not an Israelite. Jonah's the one who wanted to wipe them out.

But then God gives him a lesson, a parable. It's scorching heat, if you read it, and we won't need to read all of it, but just, and then he makes a gourd, miraculously, to give him shade, and he's, ah, comforted. Then he commands a creeping, crawling thing to nod, and it withers away overnight. And then it says that the heat pounded him and he's like, God, let me die from this heat. Now look what God says, look. We're gonna read from verse eight.

When the sun rose, God provided a scorching east wind and the sun blazed on Jonah's head so that he grew faint. He wanted to die and said, it would be better for me to die than to live because of the heat. Now watch verse nine. But God said to Jonah, is it right for you to be angry about the plant? You're concerned that a plant die, huh? A plant?

But you didn't give a damn that over a hundred thousand people were gonna die? You had more concern for a plant than a human soul created in my image? That's what he says. Right?

Is it right for you to be angry about the plant? It is, he said, and I'm so angry I wish I was dead because it was, you know, shielding me from the heat. But the Lord said, you have been concerned about this plant, though you did not tend it or make it grow. It sprang up overnight and died overnight. Now watch. And should I not have concern for the great city of Nineveh, in which there are more than 120,000 people

who cannot tell their right hand from their left, and also many animals. You didn't want me to care for them, because they're your enemies, but it doesn't mean they're my enemies. Don't make your enemies my enemy.

Just like I created the plant, I own it, I created them. And I didn't create them for destruction, I created them to live. See this is the heart of God. This is God. So when I tell you what he did to the Ninevites, it's not because he hated them, because God does it to all peoples.

He even did it to the Israelites. Their judgment was they were exiled out of the land the first time. The second time because of the land the first time and the second time because the rejection of Jesus said it because he rejected me I'm gonna reject you temple will be destroyed land will be destroyed for over 1,900 years they were left in exile what sin does the Bible say they committed that would have resulted in them being exiled for over 1,900 years because the sin that result in

destruction to the first temple it says bloodshed, immorality, idolatry. So then he brought the Babylonians, right, started around 604, first deportation at 597, then 586, they burned the temple and destroyed Jerusalem. But he returned them 70 years. So no matter how great their sin was, it only lasted 70 years. But whatever sin they committed during the second temple was so heinous that God scattered them for 1900 years. That means their sin during that period was greater than their sin in the first period.

Now what's the point I'm trying to show you? God does to Israel what he'll do to the nations. See he's impartial, unbiased, and fair. Just because you say you're an Israelite doesn't mean I'm going to wink or look over your sin. No, all of you are my creatures and I'm gonna hold you more accountable.

Do you know why? Because they don't know me, you do. That's what he says in Amos chapter three. So I'm gonna give Bible here. If they wanna argue with me, say, hey, Amos, 3, verse 1 or 2, he says to Israel of all the families in the earth,

I only know you and that's why I'm going to punish you for your sins. Amos chapter 3. Here's the word that the Lord hath spoken against you, O children of Israel, against you, O children of Israel, against the whole family,

which I brought up from the families of the earth, therefore I will punish you for all your iniquities. No, I'm not going to give you a free pass. Your judgment is going to be worse than the Assyrians who don't know me. See, this is the God of the Old Testament. So why did he destroy Nineveh? Because sadly, God doesn't have grandchildren. So you can claim the faith, but the faith is yours. It's not your child. Unless he believes and continues, your blessing won't be your child's blessing. Because if he turns from the Lord, then that generation will be in wrath.

So although the generation of Jonah repented, the next generation went back to their polytheistic paganism. God says, now I have to scatter you. So number one, they were scattered because God only tolerates so much sin before he brings judgment on a nation and replaces them. This is in scripture. I mean, I can show you, it says, look, why didn't he,

for example, why didn't he drive out the Canaanites at the time of Abraham? He says it, because the sin of the Amorite has not been made complete. If you go to Genesis 15, 16, he says, I'm waiting for their debt ceiling to hit.

Genesis 15, 16, it says it. You can open up Genesis 15, 16. So he waited 400 years. Now, that tells you the mercy and compassion of God. So Genesis 15, 16, in the fourth generation, meaning 400 years in the context,

it's the fourth generation in the context, it's four generations, 100 years. Your dead son will come back here, for the sin of the Amorites has not yet reached its full measure. Warning, there's so much sin I'll tolerate from a nation, but I'll wait patiently to see if you're gonna turn. But he's already telling them he won't, they won't. But I'm a fair God, I don't just rush to judgment

because I don't want anyone to be destroyed. It's going to take them 40 years when I say enough is enough. I'm done. I can't handle this. 400 years. You know what that means? Each generation of children grew up to be just as wicked as a generation before. And if you want to know their atrocities, he mentions the Leviticus 18. Leviticus 18 he tells them, this is what the people did in the land and that's why the land is throwing them out. And he says Israel if you do the same I'll do the same to you. And he says what they did, bestiality, incest, homosexuality, infanticide.

He goes because of these sins that I put up with for 400 years I'm disgusted. They gotta go. But I'm gonna evict you if you do the same thing. It's in Leviticus 18. So this is the context of the punishment of all the nations. But who comes first on the list of punishment? The Israelites. Why?

Because the greater the blessing, the greater the accountability. The more you know, the more you're accountable. So if the Assyrians didn't know God like Israel did, yeah, they'll be punished, but who do you think is going to be punished more severely? If you have two sons and you instruct one son not to do something

But you didn't tell the other one and they both do the thing you don't want. You'll be angry with both But who you'll be angry with more? The one you told right? God is telling Israel. You're the ones who are making me more angry than any other nation. Because you know better they don't and you're supposed to influence them. But what you're doing is you're driving them away from me. How are they driving people away from God? When you go worship their God,

you know what you're telling them? My God is not a big deal because if he was, I wouldn't be worshiping yours. I like your God better. So when you do that, what are you telling them? That I'm a God that doesn't compare to theirs. So this is why he destroys the Neva. But now, why? Well, it's the opposite.

Even though we don't have a land, the fact that we haven't wiped out is a testament of God's goodness to us. We survived. Brothers, we survived impossible odds. Not only did we live under the yoke of Rome, then later they came the Zoroastrians. A lot of people don't know that in the 5th century, even the church at large ostracized us. They condemned us as

heretics. So when I say us because the church of our ancestors, what do I mean? This is going to be related to your questions, so I have to unpack this. In the 400s, because of Nestorius, remember I mentioned Nestorius? Because he was accused of teaching there are two persons of Christ. The Assyrians were now identified with that teaching. So the church at large says, you are heretics, you are not Christians, to hell with you.

So now we didn't have the backing of the Byzantine Empire. But we're under the duress of the Persian Empire. Then Islam rises. So we had it bad from every angle. So now I'm going to ask you, how do we survive against impossible odds if Christ wasn't preserving our people?

Do you know at one time in history, the largest church in the world was the Assyrian Church of the East? This is a fact. We reached all the way to China. They even found Aramaic script, Syriac script, This is a fact. We reached all the way to China. They even found Aramaic scripts, that is attributed to the Nestorian church.

But Nestorian church is the church of your ancestors, my ancestors. This is a testimony that God has not abandoned Assyria. Because if he did, you wouldn't be here as an Assyrian, speaking your Assyrian mother tongue and the Assyrian church would have been wiped out of the planet. So what are the likelihood that

Assyrians get their country back in the middle of Iraq similar to what Israel did? What's the likelihood? You're talking to a guy who's very pessimistic. Okay. But how was your relationship? I saw you and because we had Marmari here, we had you and we had Wonderful. Yeah, and we had Jenko here. It's a great conversation. I'm trying to find a way to put a Leadership type event together for Syrians to come together. Yes. What happened with you and Jenko?

well, I don't because your platform is huge and Boy people want to find out details I can but I want I want to say something, and I know George is going to listen to it. Two things about George. He's Christian and he's Assyrian, and because of that I love him. More so I love him because he's Christian.

You can be Christian, not Assyrian, and I love you. He is a passionate young man. He reminds me of me over 20 years ago, when because I didn't have, I'm not saying he doesn't, I'm just saying, I didn't have someone to disciple me and I was just learning and growing in my faith, right?

So, and I became very passionate. See, there's something we call the beginner's zeal, where you think you've discovered something and you become so zealous you want to convert the world, but in so doing, you do more damage than good. That was me. That was me. Back then that was me.

I did a lot of damage because I thought I knew better. Hey man, you're pagan, what are you doing? Hey, what you got? I didn't know, but my intention was sincere. George is a bright young man who loves Jesus Christ and he's gonna grow and be on fire for the Lord but we got to give him time just give him time because only God knows what kind of knowledge you'll have when he's 53 remember I'm 53 so give him some time it was a misunderstanding and that's fine so have you guys spoken since or no not really spoken but I wouldn't mind speaking to him because I have no animus

towards him I can't for two reasons. Number one, cause he's Christian.

What was the issue?

The issue was about, you know, the traditions of the church. Because if my journey is very complex, I came out of.

Purely over traditions. That's all it is.

Yeah. It's, uh, these traditions that these ancient churches hold to, you know, like the Eucharist becoming the body and blood of Christ or Mary, perpetual virginity. Why do you guys believe it's not in the Bible? See, that's where I was 20 years ago. One thing I can tell you guys, this is a fact. The more you study church history, the more you're going to see, this is a fact, before God I will answer if I'm lying.

The ancient churches that have been there from the beginning, and I want to tell you the change of church, Catholic Church, I know that's demonized by the world. I don't care what the world thinks. Syrian Church, Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, these churches have been there from the beginning. And the fullness of the truth, the correct application of Christianity is found in these churches. Sadly, they're in schism. I came to that conclusion studying church history meaning the second third fourth centuries of what Christians taught I was shocked it troubled me and people know me can testify I

Had a dilemma in my hand Either all of these Christians were heretics which would be blasphemy because that means Jesus failed the church. That's blasphemy Christ said he'd be building his church, the spirit would be guiding the church, and the apostles would appoint leaders filled with the spirit to preserve the truth.

And Christ taught this will be an unbroken chain. So they cannot be false teachers, because that means then Christ failed. That means they were the true Christians. But then they taught stuff that as a Protestant I was taught are false heretical doctrines. So that led me in one or two...

Either they're false teachers and it's happening, or my teachings are not ancient, not biblical, because we're misunderstanding the Bible. And so it took me 10 years to want to just say, you know what? I got to go back to the ancient churches. And so that shocks a lot of people when you're taught sola scriptura, total scriptura.

That's the pure conflict. That's it. There's nothing more than that. Yeah. I'm a big fan of him. Very big. God bless him. I'm a big fan of you. I think he is an incredibly, because when you think about the Assyrian community, and you think about Avengers, you said something very interesting earlier, which I fully agree with. You said, you know, if I want to debate an atheist, I'm the wrong guy.

Bring somebody else, because I don't know nothing about atheism. I didn't study atheism. But if you bring me against Muslims' Quran, I've studied it, I'm a good guy to come in, but I've no guys that are Millionaire Christians who know nothing about the Bible and I know you know that whole thing that you're talking about, right? This is it. This is a guy that was a mainstream youth with Logan Paul in that entire community as An Assyrian guy who chooses to choose as his faith over fame Walks away does his thing and is doing his best to be amicable with everybody.

I'm so impressed by him, him and his wife, what they're doing. And then with you, I see you as an animal. You're a very unique animal, very, extremely necessary.

Because I'm shaped like a buffalo, is that what you're saying? No, man, there's something very different about you. There's something very different about you. There's something very different about you that you're a complicated human being. No, no, you're very complex because when I publicly said I want to bring you on, I wish you could see what text messages I get, what things people send me. You have to watch this video.

You sure you want to have this gun? Do you know what happened when I'm in his past? Do you know what's going on? All this stuff that sent my way, right? And I get it. I mean, you know, I'm not, you know, this guy's not a representation of this. That guy's not a representation of this.

Listen, I don't know why God uses complex human beings to do the impossible. I don't know why, but he's always done that. If you would have told me, who's gonna be the guy that's gonna go up against the establishment, it's gonna be a guy like Trump, I would have said, you're out of your mind,

but he chose him. Is he a man of faith? Is he gonna go out there and sit with you in a conversation about Bible and he's gonna be able to hang? No that's not him. Is he a guy that's gonna be... no but watch what he's doing right now with all the different dealings. I think he chooses

complex people and I think you're a complicated individual yourself but brilliant. Those two typically go together. You look like you want to say something. No I want to comment. The Bible pretty much tells you why he does that. So no man becomes a center of attention but Christ. The Bible says he takes broken vessels so that people will know the power is not in you it's from God because God does the impossible with individuals that no one would think would be possible that they could be used so he can get the glory.

This is in 1 Corinthians 1 18 and 31 says it right there. 1 Corinthians 1 18 and 31. God wants to show his glory by taking humans who are oppressed, rejected, looked down upon, so that people know that can't be him. There's something in him that's doing it. Driving so he gets the glory. So that not only does he get the glory, but no man becomes an idol. So this is what has been disgusting me on the social media. Everyone who has some type of gifting

in the eyes of others, draws a cult following. And this is wicked and evil in the sight of God. God doesn't want cult of personality, doesn't want idols. He wants you not to focus on the person

because he's gonna disappoint, I'll disappoint you. Right, in fact, even as you're talking about it, as I said, coming to this broadcast, I've never been attacked spiritually in my life than prior to this event. Stuff of my past, my ex-wife, lies and slander

being used to discredit me. That hasn't happened to me in years. There's something about you and your, that Satan came after me. I got so tired, I almost wanted to give in and say, man, maybe I shouldn't be here. It was that bad. So the warfare is real because we are imperfect.

In fact, if you read the Bible, the greatest characters of the Bible are some of the worst sinners imaginable. You go look at David, David committed adultery, murdered the man to cover up his sin. Go look at Solomon. Go look at it. Because God is telling you, look, your eyes shouldn't be on them. They're flesh like you. They'll disappoint you. Be on your eyes.

Be on me who works through sinners to give you hope that if this center can be forgiven and be used, I can use you too and secondly as long as you keep your eye on me I will exalt you but if you exalt yourself I will have to humble you because I'm not putting you in the business to have people be your followers I'm putting you in the business to make them followers of Jesus Christ and I'm gonna give you a principle from 2nd Corinthians where

Paul says he was afraid he was getting puffed up because Paul was a super apostle he did more he says that I've been more miracles than the other apostle he wasn't boasting and I reached more people but then he says something this why he's my hero when I read Paul man he's my hero I can't hold his sandals and he was a maggot in comparison to Christ but look what he says in 2nd Corinthians 12 so when I call I mean the man

He just wanted to be forgotten and wanted everyone to see Jesus. He didn't want you to focus on him. Stop focusing on me Focusing on the Lord who loves me and saved me and didn't give me what I deserve here 2nd Corinthians 12 Look at 6 to 10 what he says, you know He's talking about the context as he's talking about a man, and he's talking about himself by the way, but he's talking about him as a third person because he doesn't want attention.

He goes, I know a man, whether in the body or not, I don't know if he, I left my body or my body, who 14 years earlier was caught up to the third heaven. It's him, but he doesn't want to say it's him. But he doesn't know, did God take me in my body or is it an out of body experience? It doesn't matter. He saw inexpressible things, things that cannot be expressed.

Now look what he says. He gives it away basically. For though I might desire to boast, I will not be a fool, for I will speak the truth. But I refrain, Here's the key. "'Lest anyone should think of me above what he sees me to be or hears from me.'" See that line right there? "'I don't want anyone to make me a superstar.

So I fear when I tell you the things I've done, you're going to idolize me. I don't want you to idolize me. See, that's why I have to be careful what I say, lest I impress you to focus on me, and I will disappoint you." That's what he's saying. I don't know of any Christian. Myself, I disappointed so many people.

I don't know if I'm right. I always think I'm right, and they're wrong, but that's the other side too. They're right. We're just biased. Now watch what he says. God allows you to struggle with demons. Here's the wisdom of God. Unless I should be exalted above measure by the abundance of revelation,

meaning unless I thought I was a super Christian because I was getting so much revelation more than Peter and John, lest I feel like, look at me, I'm the man. So when people tell me I'm brilliant, it's not I'm trying to be fake humble. I don't want to believe it because I'm afraid I'll get puffed up. You understand? Because the same gift that God gave me,

you can take it away. But here, I want to not believe, I want to finish this. A thorn in the flesh was given to me, a messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I be exalted by measure. Concerning this thing, I can't handle this. Remove this agent of Satan. He doesn't

tell us how Satan's attacking him, but Satan attacks. But he doesn't tell us how. Was it a disease? He doesn't say. He goes, but God, I can't handle it. Look at Jesus' response. I've pleaded with the Lord three times, apart from, the depth of that one statement, my favor is all you need to endure. I'm not going to deliver you, but I won't let it consume you. I will preserve you through it, but I'm not gonna take you out of it.

You know why? Because I want you to know you're nothing without me. When you realize how weak you are, then you're gonna appreciate it's my power it's not you that's the wisdom of Christ and that's why he says therefore most gladly I will boast in my infirmities I won't talk about how great I'm I'm gonna talk about how weak and wicked and useless I am why so that you know it's the power of Christ that's

giving me the grace to do this therefore I take pleasure in infirmities and reproaches and needs and persecutions and distresses for Christ's sake for when I am weak then I am strong then I know where my strength lies not in me not in my money not in my political connections that's all gonna go but if you have Jesus that's forever see this is why sometimes we go throughout to remind you hey Patrick get off that horse but I'm not saying but you get off that horse you are what you are because I was pleased

to put you in the right circumstances. But I can take it away like this.

I fully believe that. This was great. I wish I had more time. I got an 11.30 meeting I got to run to. The guys are texting me. I would like to do another one with you because I probably have 20 other topics I haven't

gone into. But this was a lot of fun. I really enjoyed it. Where can people... I do think you're on Manechna. Did you guys talk about Manechna?

They want to set me up on that.

Okay, so we're going to put the link below for Manechna. I'm sure a lot of people are going to want to talk to you. And then where would you like people to go to learn more about you?

That's a good question. forth, they can go to Shemounian, S-H-A-M-O-U-N-I-A-N. Like I said, it's gonna be a lot of- Shemounian's a website or a YouTube? No, it's a YouTube channel. Okay. But like I said, a lot of controversial issues, things coming up that unfortunately has to come up,

but there it is. See that fester?

That's my twin brother right there. to go learn more about you. I look forward to our next one. Truly, I look forward to it. This was an amazing conversation. I'm so glad we did it. I'm glad you kept your word and came down because I know we've been trying to do this for a long time. Yeah, but thank the Lord. And if you have more

questions, I'm here tomorrow or whatever day. No, we'll figure it buddy. Bye-bye, bye-bye. Hey, guys, Vincent Oshana here. I recently released a new shirt for my faith-based line, Faith Over Fear. There's a cross on the front and Hebrews 11, verse 1 on the back. As Christians, we've never seen Jesus face-to-face, but we believe. That's what having true faith is, we even have a female line. Rock the shirt, rock it with purpose,

and let the world know who you stand with. and let the world know who you stand with.

Peace and love.