Nick Saw It Coming… Harbaugh and Ravens Officially Part Ways 🚨👀 | FIRST THINGS FIRST

Here's Herbert in the playoffs, Danny, your guy. He had that game against the Jags where Trevor spotted him four interceptions, and then in Houston he's like, OK, the way to win the game is at four interceptions.

No.

That's a bold strategy, Converse.

It even works out for him. Nope, he tried it.

Heck.

What would a win mean more for Herbert or Drake may here? Herbert like I Herbert obviously like he would mean more for me. He's in year six Drake Mays in year two Herbert's on his third coach Mays on his second Herbert's 27 Mays 23 like if Drake may doesn't win a playoff game in year two, okay, he wins MVP or is second for MVP,

had this breakout year. We all think he's arrived as a potential top five perennial quarterback, and he's going to be hanging out and have a shot for the next decade to do it. Herbert still has a long runway ahead of him.

I obviously think that. But the longer you go into a career without a playoff win, the tougher it is. So I do think it would mean more for Herbert. Having said that, I just want to also try to be fair, not just because I'm a fan of his, but just to be fair, we shouldn't set up a world where the underdog on the road with the worst team, if he loses,

he's a choke artist, right?

Here we go.

He's not supposed to win.

He's not supposed to win this game, right?

No, but he better ball. He better not go out there and throw three interceptions.

I agree completely, but he's not supposed to win. But so this is, hold on, because I have a different answer than you but to answer that II don't love the setup of this team is the seven. They are in this game as the seven seed as if Herbert was out all year and got dropped in on on the seven seed. Now, we're asking him to win it like

part of the reason the Patriots are the higher seed is because how great Drake May was part of the reason the Patriots are the higher seed is because how great Drake May was. Part of the reason the Chargers are where they are is because the offense, I don't think most of this is on Herbert by the way, in fact we know it I think Herbert's been very good, but they were, they earned their way to this playoff matchup and it was a team that I understand they lost arguably the most valuable player in the history

of pro football, Joe Ault. He's valuable enough to make a Pro Bowl after six games. I'm being serious. He's super valuable. He is valuable. But a team that going into the year, I think most people thought, well, they're better

than the Patriots. But the Patriots had the better season. But we don't, I don't look at the Chargers as huge dogs. I look at it as three and a half point dogs. I understand that they are three and a half point dogs, but I think talent-wise, Chargers Patriots, pretty damn fair fight. I think both coaches, I look at similar caliber.

I think Drake May is better than Justin Herbert, but I understand some folks that feel like Justin Herbert and Drake May are very similar and Herbert, but I understand some folks that feel like Justin Herbert and Drake May are very similar and Herbert's the more seasoned quarterback even though May's had the better year. So, I look at this as a very even matchup that I don't, to me, wouldn't take heroics for Herbert to win it.

And so, I am rejecting your initial setup of that a win and it's unbelievable what Justin Herbert's done and a loss what do you want from him I got to see how the game plays out in

that I think that's fair I would just say the the fatal flaw of the Chargers this year is Slater and Alt and then a bunch of other injuries on their offensive line and Justin Herbert has been pressured and hit at a historic rate, right? Normally, and we just did the last 20 years, quarterbacks don't win playoff games in that scenario. I mean, we can just show, like in terms of most hits taken, but you still make the playoffs,

there aren't that many occurrences of guys getting hit this often and even making the playoffs, but the ones who do immediately lose in their first playoff game.

But you think Herbert's better than all those guys? Better than old Russell Wilson?

Yeah. Which is why...

That was a good Deshaun Watson, right? I mean, that's when he was really good.

And a very good Andrew Luck. I mean, listen, this is... it's... yes. And that's why, not heroic, but I am picking the Chargers to win the game, and I do think it will mean a lot for how we talk about Justin Herbert, because a quarterback who gets hit at the rate that he does with those offensive line injuries normally doesn't win in the playoffs, and it would take a Superman-type effort from Herbert in order to do it.

Look, I agree that if Herbert loses but plays well, you can't kill him to me. Look, I think if they were healthy on the offensive line, I mean, Slater is a whole other issue. But just all, and I might think the Chargers should win this game. Like, I think that's been their downfall this year, the injuries. But if he doesn't play well, then I think that's a problem.

And he's going to really be known as a guy that melts in the playoffs, which is surprising because he had shown, as we talked about earlier, like even when I was at your house, his first start against the Chiefs, and he was great. He got thrown in there, and he was great.

So I expect him to play well. I'm surprised, though, Nick, because I agree with you fully that Herbert has more to win. Like if he, if he wins this game, it means more for Herbert than for May. Reputation. You disagree with that?

I, yeah, I think, I think that there, we have been living in a world where Drake May is going to win league MVP. The Patriots are, in some quarters, believed to be the most complete team on their side of the bracket. They're the two seed, and I think that everyone at this table trusts them more than they trust the one seed.

You know, like, believes in the Patriots' chances of making the Super Bowl more than we believe in Denver's chances of making the Super Bowl. than we believe in Denver's chances of making the Super Bowl. We are simultaneously living in that world while the reality might be in five days, Drake May has not won the MVP and they lost the playoff game. And next year they go from the easiest schedule in the NFL to a far more difficult one and

all the questions of, man, here was Jaden Daniels in year one and year two, here was CJ in year one and year two. Those things start to pop up fast. I also think that the Patriots do have a legitimate chance of making the Super Bowl and I don't think the Chargers do. So I think that just advancing,

there is more championship equity, if you will, in the Patriots advancing than the Chargers advancing. I understand that getting the first playoff, a loss in a weird way, like a loss is more damaging for Herbert than it is for me. But that's slightly to me, KW, I don't know if you understand, I'm parsing too much different question than who does a win mean more for a win for Drake May this year. He stamps this season just one win. You think I yeah. I mean, I think you win a playoff game against what we all think is, you know, a legitimate team with a legitimate quarterback and a legitimate

coach, then you, to me, enter the house money face. It's like, oh, okay, wow, now we're playing for the conference, to get to the conference championship game. If you lose in round two, you deal with it. If they lose this game, it's going to be a lot of, man, I told you guys, who they beat. They beat Buffalo once this year. There will be a lot of that. And I'm also baking in, I don't think he's, whoever should win MVP,

I think Stafford's going to win MVP. And then it's like, so what was this season? You won a division championship. And that's for a team that has real Super Bowl aspirations, it feels different. I'll give you a path. This is what, and I'll try to give you some nuance.

because it takes everything that Drake did and just like puts an asterisk on the whole season. It's just kind of a blanket like you played a bunch of cupcakes you had the third best offense 29 points but he didn't really do much. So I think people push back against that a lot because when you watch Drake it's like you know what Drake would have carved up most of these yeah like we're like, take it on.

This was, it reminds me like early Mike Tyson, like, yeah, there was some tomato cans, but we're wanting to move up the ranks. We think we can win it. The defense, on the other hand, no one talks about like, hey,

your defense is the fourth of schedule comes in. Like, we haven't played a bunch of great quarterbacks. We have played a lot of guys that were riding the bench for the year or just rookies or just not good quarterbacks. So are we really the fourth best defense? On paper, yes.

I'm not sure we actually are.

So you're worried about Herbert having success against you? Yeah, I don't think we're actually the fourth best

defense.

You're not. actually the fourth best defense. I oddly do think we're the third best offense. Well I think it's a huge piece of why the Chargers, in addition to keeping Herbert healthy in Week 18 against the Broncos, they're like, we like our matchup with the Patriots, we don't want the pass rush. Breaking news. Farbaugh gone from Baltimore. Danny, I hate to say it, we're going to discuss this rather and push top 10 Tuesdays. People are like, oh my goodness.

All right, Nick, you were on this for months. Your immediate reaction to this news breaking. I would like to congratulate the Baltimore Ravens in making it so much easier to keep Lamar Jackson. I am trying to do this as Professionally and without making myself the subject of this week's sports media ombudsman where I eviscerate myself. I

Have tried all year long to point to publicly available things to demonstrate what I knew was a real rift between Lamar and John Harbaugh. And so I pointed to the fact that the head coach and the quarterback don't communicate about injuries, clearly. And the fact that, and I thought that article was pretty clearly, to mix metaphors, a Hail Mary, I felt by John Harbaugh, to signal to the organization,

guys, I know you think if it's one or the other, it's, you gotta go with the star quarterback. But, that was my, that, I don't know, that's my read.

The only way to read that story was that it came don't know, that's my read. That's my read.

The only way to read that story was that it came from the Ravens and Harbaugh.

It definitely came from the Ravens.

Right, and Adam Minimal. And so this is a very, very risky maneuver. I don't know, again, who the best available head coach is, because I don't even know who the best available D coordinator for the Cowboys is. And I don't know, for the Ravens, their appetite of, with two years left on his deal, giving Lamar a fully guaranteed top of the market deal, which is the only thing he'd want. Like the, one would, he would be justified

in asking for that. The market's moved 20% since he signed his deal. He wanted a fully guaranteed deal before he won a cup or an MVP to first team all pros. But this was coming. And even if they won this weekend,

barring this team making the Super Bowl, I believe this was coming. And I thought it was the biggest story in the NFL the last three weeks, and now it's

here. Look, you may be right about Lamar and Harbaugh. Obviously, Lamar didn't give him, forget ringing endorsement, an endorsement at all when he was asked about this the other day. But regardless of that, unless Lamar Jackson was like adamant, I want, John Harbaugh's my coach. He has helped me become what I've become.

He must be here. Barring that, it was time. I don't care if Lamar liked him but was like, hey, whatever, we got to win. It was time. We saw year after, and again, Harbaugh will be,

just like Stefanski, although he's obviously done more than Stefanski, Harbaugh will, may get another job, he'll certainly get interviews with some of these teams that are looking for head coaches. So he's a good coach. But 18 years, the last, after they won that Super Bowl, he missed the playoffs four out of the next five years.

And then Lamar popped, because it wasn't going well, Lamar's rookie year, and then he put him in for Flacco, and the rest is history, they became a contender. But we saw so many times where things I look at as coaching. I thought they were an undisciplined team with a lot of the penalties in critical situations,

taunting, unsportsmanlike fouls, you know, just not being able to get a full complimentary game together. I look at a lot of that as coaching, and so I thought it was time whether him and Lamar got along or not.

And so it is risky in that you know you had a good coach. Now you got to get a good coach, but you still have Lamar Jackson, Derrick Henry, and some other good players. So I think they'll be fine, and this was the right move.

And I think it's actually less risky just to build off that for a second. This is immediately the best job opening by far in the NFL, and it's not close. Right. I just think people that otherwise would be like, the Giants, the Cardinals.

That's interesting.

Oh, wait. I can coach Lamar Jackson at 29 years old and work for one of the best organizations. To me, the coaching market changes immediately with this news. And we should just think bigger on it. But also, sometimes it's just time.

I obviously used to work in Chicago, would cover the Cubs very closely. Theo Epstein used to talk about this all the time. He said he got it from Bill Walsh, like 10 years, and then it's about time for leadership to change, both for the leader and for the team,

because the leader needs a new challenge, and the people receiving the message from the leader, it can just grow stale and so it's best for both parties to...

Why I had to give the show over to Wild.

Right, yeah.

Exactly.

Ten years from now, who knows where I'll be. And Brew mentioned this because I've been sounding the alarms of like one of the longest, I don't know who's longer term, him or Tomlin. I think Tomlin's the only one. Tomlin's one. He was two. So he spent, I think, 18 of the 30 years. And we were just talking, Coach will be on after the break,

on how deep your roots are within the organization.

Oh, it's massive.

So what I would be worried about is Belichick. And I know their system is different, Belichick and New England. You don't, I don't know if you want to be the guy after the guy. We've seen a lot of quick turnarounds, but like, there's a lot of untangling that you need to do. But like, Mike Vrabel, for example, in New England, he has a clean slate.

Gerard Mayo was dealing with like signage in the building and like really trying to undo, untangle Belichick. angled Belgian. I wonder if you're doing that with Harbaugh and like are we gonna see someone come in immediately like Ben Johnson and turn it all around or do you spend a lot of time trying to un-Harbaugh the whole franchise?

I think that makes sense and that's a good point. However, most of those times you're not going, you don't go in there where you got a two-time MVP in his prime at quarterback, not to mention one of the best running backs in the league. That's the difference like Mayo even though he had made was a rookie year, you know, it was starting with a whole clean slate.

I just also I again, I think the look I think that the Lamar contract stuff is going to be troublesome no matter what. I'm really interested in what the phone call is like. It's like, hey, Las Vegas Raiders, who have never gotten the quarterback right, you have the number one pick

and you have an unhappy Max Crosby. And we're thinking about hiring Kurt Cignetti. Would you give us the number one pick where we can draft Fernando Mendoza and Max Crosby for Lamar Jackson? Just think about it.

Just think about it. You get your quarterback, we start fresh, we add Max Crosby. That's certainly a trade that is, it's fun for shows like this.

It's fun for shows like this.

I think it'd be nuts.

It would reset everything, but the. But if you're resetting.

It would be a resetting.

Yeah, but you don't know if Mendoza's gonna be doing anything. No, you don't know any, but it would be resetting. I think Lamar's gonna stay. And this predates Lamar. So this is, and it's not even Harbaugh's fault. It just means maybe everybody needs a fresh start. 2016, the second to last game of the year, they are playing the Steelers for the division title on Sunday night football.

There's ten seconds left, they have a lead. Antonio Brown is at the one yard line and extends over the goal line to win the division. The Ravens miss the playoffs. 2017, final game of the year, win in your end of the playoffs. They have Andy Dalton in a fourth and 12, 60 yards from the end zone.

He converts it, they're out of the playoffs. 2018 had the bad playoff game of Mars rookie year. Who cares? 2019, you're the number one seed unanimous MVP. You play the worst playoff game as a team to the Titans and Derrick Henry, and you lose.

2020, you have a 99-yard pick six to lose to Josh Allen in a 10-3 game at the one-yard line. 2021, you miss the playoffs when you're 8-3 because Lamar gets hurt. 2022, looks like you're going to miss the playoffs. You make it with Huntley. You have a 99-yard fumble six to lose that game.

2023, Zay Flowers extends. 2024, Mark Andrews drops the ball. 2025, Tyler Loop. That's eight of nine years your season came down to a moment and you lost eight different ways. You're just trying to torture Brutus right now? No, no, I'm saying.

That was probably a hardball's argument. Like look at this guy. I mean, this is a lot.

Guy makes a kick.

Right, but I'm saying, like, I just think there's too much scar tissue. Like, you have to find a way to start fresh. And now you have to start a contract negotiation with Lamoore. John Harbaugh out after 18 years in Baltimore.

An undeniably successful 18-year tenure, the second-longest head coach in terms of one team, one organization in the NFL, just him and Mike Tomlin at the top of that list. Only three losing seasons, won that Super Bowl back in 2012.

Coach, your reaction to an undeniably successful coach and a very successful tenure coming to an end after that heartbreak and loss to Willie Steelers.

Yeah, it seems like it's reactionary, but maybe this has been a long time coming in terms of them thinking that they need a fresh start. From his perspective, if you do kick the field goal, it's a 40-yard field goal, we're not having this conversation. And maybe they would have gone to the playoffs and after a playoff loss, we'd be having this conversation.

I don't know, but I think it looks dramatically different. So that feels a bit reactionary. With the amount of smoke in terms of the Lamar Jackson article, and it seems that there's some underlying conflict there. I guess Mr. Brachotti felt like it was time for something to change. But from his perspective, he's got three years left on his deal. He could easily sit out one year, two years, and he's going to be the most sought-after

coach next year if he decides to do that. All these openings, I'm sure they'll want to talk to him. But in the interim, he should go hang out with his brother and help him coach in the playoffs if he wants to do that. And, you know, maybe add some insight

that helps the Chargers win.

Yeah, this is tough because I didn't think he deserved to be fired, honestly. I thought he was a mainstay. I thought this season, you know, we talked about the Baltimore Ravers being a contender, not a team that was in trouble in any facet. Validate never took into account Derek Henry's ball control issues, Lamar being hurt, the defense playing not up to par, but then we saw

them being one game away from being in the playoffs and I thought John, Hall ball coach Hall ball, did a good job for the most part of taking all the arrows, right? Because there was a lot of criticism going his way. Nevertheless, everything they need to do in the offseason is more of a facelift.

It's not a crisis in identity. So I didn't think the firing was warranted. Nevertheless, man, I think right now, what's the next step? I think the next step is, where does this organization go? If you want your defense to be the spearhead of your team, you got to go get a defensive-minded head coach. Go get Brian Flores. If you want an offensive-minded head coach,

you go get Mike McCarthy, because you know what he can do, especially when he gets the best out of quarterbacks. See what he did down on Dak. and he's ran an operation before. So I think it's about the next move being the best move. And if you do pay Lamar Jackson that season, you can't be in a situation next year questioning his worth and what he can do, right?

He has to erase all the deficiencies for the Baltimore Ravens.

And what people don't realize is when you fire a head coach, there's so much transition that takes place in the organization. It's not just the coaching staff, the scouting staff has to get used to you, the group that does free agency, they have to understand what the new coach wants. So there's a whole personnel perspective. A lot of the roster

gets turned over. You may change your medical department, your PR department. There's layers to this, and then everybody's got to get used to the new person. So teams that have continuity also have efficiency and take advantage of teams that are constantly churning over guys. Now, the one thing that the Ravens did with John that was very different is he was one of the only special teams coaches to ever become a head coach. So I could see their head coaching search being a little bit different than maybe the traditional

head coaching searches where they could look in that realm for another guy.

Listen, I think that they're going to have their pick. It's the most attractive job on the market. That's the part about what's next, right? You get to go work for an organization. They've only had three head coaches in the history of the Baltimore Ravens, right? It was Ted Marchabrota, Brian Billick, and now John Harbaugh.

I was there with Ted Marchabrota.

Were you? I believe it.

Really? First time a Ravens team, yeah.

Really? So a bit organizational stability, and you get a two-time MVP who will be 29 years old for next season. coach and I know you're not going to come out and like support coaches getting fired and you said that he didn't deserve it. I would just say that...

It's not to cut you off and I apologize. No, you're good. And I think it goes back to your point. We're watching other teams look for their head coach like the Giants and other teams like that who have blue bloods and I didn't say the Ravens are but what coach is saying when you get a new coach it's not just about what they, it's the philosophy change. That changes the makeup and creed of the building. That doesn't, you're not gonna, that takes years. You know what I mean?

That's not like a one year fix type situation.

I mean, listen, I understand that John Harbaugh was very entrenched and so undoing that or changing some of that will take years. Ben Johnson seemed to do it in one year. were not on the same page.

I don't know about that, DP. I don't know if that's overblown.

This just happened. He didn't give him a vote of confidence at the end of the year. If Lamar Jackson wanted him back, I've got to imagine he would be back. Sometimes it is in everyone's best interest for there to be a change. Andy Reid in Philadelphia it happened. Sometimes it's just time for people to part ways and go and hey, all

the best. Thank you. Best of luck to you as well. And look, Philadelphia made the decision. That's a really, really good organization. They were able to win two Super Bowls without Andy. But imagine if Andy had stayed and they'd gotten Patrick Verhulms, what that could have been. And, and we'd look at the new England situation. That's so unique because Mike Frable was a part of that, that

organization and the start of the dynasty, and then you bring in Josh McDaniels. So there's, that's a different package. package and we see coaches all the time come in and win one year. It's whether you can win over time and that's what John has proven. He can win over time and we can disregard that, but that's a

unique, unique talent. I thought one of the things that came out in the piece we read, the big article that came out, was that Eric DaCosta didn't talk to John Hall. But John Hall only talked to Steve Bichotte. And it felt like that was a disconnect. Because usually the head coach, GM, owner, that's one triangle that has to be the core foundation of your team as far as communication.

So maybe that was a tell that there was something coming down the line. But nevertheless, I think John Hall is a hell of a coach,

I just felt like it was premature. Sorry, Coach. No, no, no. I was there when we hired Eric DaCosta, too, when he was a really young guy. And I know him personally, and he's a good guy, and John's a good guy. I think when they say he didn't talk to him, he reporting structure was head coach to owner, GM to owner. That's the ultimate way. So I don't think it's about them not getting along as much as just the way the power structure is.

Do you think that John Harbaugh and Lamar Jackson were aligned?

I think that a lot of people didn't want Lamar Jackson. And John Harbaugh said yeah I want him and then he brought in a system with with Greg Roman that really lent itself to help Lamar grow and

blossom. No I think no question it worked in the past I'm saying right like now

this year. Well things do change like any relationship or you know a marriage or any long-term relationship things can change over time it doesn't mean that they can't work together they just may have some differences that they have to work out.

What does an alignment look like to you? Just a question. Because I watch Hallmar and his presser come out and say, hey man, me and Hallmar is fine. I don't know where all this is coming from. And maybe it could be smoke, I give you that.

I think action's over words. The action's that they parted ways with their coach. And if they thought it was just bad luck with injuries and a missed 44-yard field goal, they wouldn't be doing this. Like Lamar Jackson and John Harbaugh, yeah, maybe grew apart. But again, I referenced it with the other guys. It's just something that I've always thought was really insightful.

Theo Epstein said that he learned it from Bill Walsh. He wrote about it. Sometimes it's just something that I've always thought was really insightful. Theo Epstein said that he learned it from Bill Walsh. He wrote about it. Sometimes it's just time. They call it 10 years of leadership. It's in the best interest of John Harbaugh to get a new challenge, and it's in the best interest of the Ravens to hear a fresh voice.

No football team in the league has more losses than the Ravens do of five points or less. I showed you guys the number yesterday in the last 18 years since Harbaugh has been there. They've lost close games. They've lost

double-digit leads. They've had heartbreaking losses at the end of season. It might just be

time for a change. But when you're there for 18 years, you're going to have hard-earned losses.

But I'm saying more than the Browns or the Jets or the Bears over the last 18 years. Not just one coach. Any organization in football, they've got the most close losses. It's just, it might have just been time. It's not that John Harbaugh's a bad coach.

He obviously isn't a bad coach.

Well, you don't get fired if you're a good coach.

I'm saying it just might not be a good coach for the Ravens anymore.

That's a reasonable thing. Sometimes people get divorced and then they both end up happier. How are all those new voices for the Giants working since they got rid of Tom Coughlin?

How about for the Jets every year?

Yeah, those fresh voices helping out?

To be very clear, you also could do way worse than John Harbaugh. It is a risk.

Yeah, he's gonna have his pick of... if he sits out a year, next year every single job...

I wonder if John Harbaugh will take it. We also, to your point, you brought it up a little while ago, like, Harbaugh vouched for Lamar. There was a trust there, there was a relationship there, there's that comic, there's that clip that they keep showing, like it was like a fourth and one, and Harbaugh walks into Phil Lamar, should we go for it? That's two people learning about each other

and believing each other, and that's broken now. So now you're putting all this faith in LeBron to be the difference, and a head coach has to have that same belief that Hallbar has in him, has to have that same belief that Hallbar has in him, and that takes time.