Pelas Pistas Podcast entrevista Max Verstappen e Gabriel Bortoleto #PelasPistasPodcast

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♪♫ to have an extra program, a special program. So, it's here for you now. Let's break the internet today with a special program with Max Verstappen and Gabriel Bortoletto. That's right, the two together here at Pelas Pistas. So you already know, like the video, subscribe to our channel, share with everyone who likes racing,

even with those who don't like racing, share with everyone that today's show promises and promises too much. I'll give you a warning that follows us, which is the following. We're going to do the whole show in English, because since Max doesn't speak Portuguese, we want him to feel at ease here in our show, to understand everything that's going on in our conversations, even in the chat we have only with Gabriel Bortoletto. So, rest assured, we'll have subtitles so you can follow without any problems.

But just to make it clear, we'll leave this whole show in English but you won't miss anything with us. Before opening the camera for them... The day has come, huh?

Chris will be more comfortable now, right?

Are we going to start in English now or... Now it's getting a bit better. Now you're flowing 100% in Portuguese. Working for Brazilian television, so...

I need to speak Portuguese.

I need to learn something after a couple of years. I need to try and do something right. What about you? How come you're not speaking Portuguese?

I'm learning. We speak a lot. Great words, honestly. I think in my next interview, it will be great. I think I cannot return to the paddock after, but... Maybe even finish on J. I mean, it depends. It depends how you look at it. Wow, amazing. Max, nice to have you here.

Gabi, again, now as a Formula 1 driver. Yeah, finally. Took some years. The number 33. 33 Brazilian drivers in Formula 1.

The 33rd Brazilian driver in Formula 1.

Good luck, man.

It was good luck, yeah.

And you are now the 40th that's come here.

40th what? Brazilian drivers, Formula 1 drivers that came to Velasquez.

14 F1 drivers. Brazilian F1 drivers that came.

Yeah, that many already?

14.

Ah, okay.

Not 14.

I mean, you had a lot of drivers, of course, in the past, but that's impressive.

Out of the 33, 14 came over here.

That's impressive.

Yeah. Starting for you guys, how this friendship started? You are so close, everybody loves to

see you together. When you became friends? Well, I think the very first thing that now also comes back is that I went to a race, go-kart race 2016, 2016 right? Beginning of the year in Adria.

That was your first year? Second year. Ah, second year. Second year and of course for most of my go-karting career I raced at COG. And yeah, I was there to watch my friends race but at the same time also the factory was there racing and Gabi was racing for the factory of CRG and I walked into the tent

there to say hello to the boss Giancarlo and then... He has a photo.

Like oh he's winning all the races, can I take a picture with you?

With a little boy. Yeah, basically we ended up taking a picture together.

Gabi was, I think, this big.

You do have the photo.

Yeah.

It's all over the place.

Yeah, it's very cute.

But the haircut was still... Back then he was still very cute.

Was the haircut...

No, I have a...

Oh, you for a Brazilian. Yeah, it was like 3 degrees. Here it's like 15, the lowest, 10.

And at three o'clock in the morning.

Yeah, but it was fun.

That was the first thing that I remember. And then the second thing that I remember was in Monaco when I had to go, I think, to the briefing or something. And he had qualifying in the Freka, I think

it was. Okay, you are talking about to the date.

Was it that time?

Yeah, daytime.

You don't remember the night time?

No he was a bit, whoa.

That 12.

Was that the same year?

Yeah. Well Enzo texted me, said and we were at SAS and Nelson, Nelson, where are you this and that, Gabby wants to go out and this and that, so yeah, yeah, I'll have a room over here and then yeah.

And then that room sometimes it's a bit dark and you have to do the memories.

It's a dark, dark room. But during the day, I remember, I mean, all the kids, they were lining up in the championship to go to qualifying. You could see a lot of the kids super nervous, already with the helmet. This guy comes running over, crossing the pit wall, Max, Max, Max, let's take a picture. He had to go into qualifying, it was like five minutes.

It was a race. And I asked you for advice.

And you gave just...

I was like, Max, Max, I'm, I'm starting, you know, front row there, what should I do?

And then you were like, flat out.

What else can I tell you?

Did I give you a whole analysis of what to do?

Send it.

Yeah, send it.

And did you send it?

I think I crashed.

Yeah, he sent it.

In the wall. An issue was committed. That's what I wanted I crashed. Yeah, he sent it. He sent it. In the wall. At least he was committed.

That's what I wanted to see. So those were the first two memories of meeting Gabi and then I would say when you were in F3, right? We started to do more.

Yeah, playing games. Yeah, playing games, more on the sim and then of course the closer you got to Formula One,

the more we were doing stuff together. In the sim and then of course the closer you got to Formula One the more we were doing stuff together.

In the sim?

In the sim, yeah. And then of course eventually then he got to Formula One and he moved also to Monaco so then yeah, we started to meet up a bit more and then of course during the race weekends you see each other here and there. So yeah, it's been good.

Remember when Gabi was here and we were telling him, why don't you move to Monaco? No, Monaco is too expensive. Yes, I remember. It's crazy.

It's too fucking expensive.

It's okay, it's expensive, but I mean, it's not ten times more than where you were before.

No, it's true. No, but it was good. I mean, I like Monaco now that I'm living there. good rookie deal at Sauber. Yeah, exactly. Perfect. Help me out.

When you guys are at the sim, who is better than who?

Yeah, why do you start with me?

It's a sim question.

It's a sim question, exactly. Come on, man.

He never accepts, you know.

I say and then...

Well, I have to make the setup, so I can always control a little bit the feeling, you know, so I can always control a little bit the feeling, if I need more front, more rear.

You make him do the setup for you?

No, it's not that I make, I do the setup. I start with the setup. And then if we are too close, he starts changing the setup. And then he starts to get a bit further away. And then I need to do more laps puts so much front or does something stupid. Is that the same thing he probably does in the real car?

Probably.

Putting a little bit more front.

But we always super close. We race a lot. Like, we don't focus so much on hot lapping because that's not the target of what we do. No, it was a joke question.

But this is what we do.

I mean, at the end, we're all competitive, right? But no, Gabi is very good on the simulator. But yeah, like you said, I think it's more important actually to do the racing together, you know? Racecraft. Yeah, because you don't always get the tracks that well. Like in Budapest, we were racing in the same before

and then when for the first time of the year he was behind me, I don't know, he was sent.

I had no chance to pass you. No.

Because you knew, well you were the only one that was doing the right thing in turn five, no, six? Five or six, the right-hander. Chicane, yeah. Because I kept passing people into the chicane because I kept doing the wide line out of the dirty air. But as soon as I got behind you, you knew exactly how to... I mean, we were doing that all the time on the simulator as well.

Because you get used to what the other guy does, you know.

And talking about, sorry, talking about Sim, what were you going to say?

About Sim, yeah.

Well, my question was, because we talked about SimNow, we had this discussion a lot about a career of a driver starting by go-kart and the one that doesn't have the money and wants to start, can buy a good sim and starts in the sim. Do you know, do you think nowadays with, obviously the good softwares and the games are a bit more realistic. I wouldn't say Formula One, but like a professional GT3 driver, for example, you think a guy

can get there without having stepped on a go-kart? I think so. But it also depends on how you train him, you know, because at the end of the day, I think when you live off the simulator, you need to have a proper fixed schedule, you know, and like in go-karting already when you were a kid, you had your race weekend and everything was scheduled.

So you need to, you get taught of how to live off of a schedule. You cannot miss a practice or qualifying. And in the, I feel like in the sim world, initially they lack a little bit of being strict with time. So you need to just really coach the guy or girl, doesn't matter, in terms of being professional about it. But I do think it's possible, yeah, like you said, F1, I mean, even for a go-kart kid to

make it to Formula One is super hard. It's a very small percentage. But for sure for me, I think when you start nowadays in a simulator with the right guidance with the right people, and then of course when you move to in a simulator with the right guidance, with the right people, and then of course when you move to the real world, enough time to also prepare well, you know, in a real car, because in a simulator when you hit the wall, it doesn't hurt.

When you go in a Rouge with a GT car, I mean, it's fine, it's okay, oh a little moment, I crashed, restarted, you go again. When you arrive to Eau Rouge, for example, the first time in real life, it's a different feeling because you feel the elevation, the compression, the car starts moving a bit and you get a little bit scared or intimidated. And that's where you need to practice a bit more. But I think all of that can be prepared.

So, rephrasing maybe a bit more question. Remember when I said we were coming here and I said, oh, it was for me, it was really hard when I did Formula 2 and then I did one year without doing anything. If I had to pick, okay, or I have a sim, a good sim, whether it's the team one or whatever, or I could do as many days of go-kart as I could, what would you recommend? Well, I would combine the two. I would race and. No, you have to choose one of them. Between not doing it in the Formula 2 season? No, no. When I finished my Formula 2 season, I had a gap year because they said I was going to

test. Long story short, I ended up doing four or three days of testing, whatever.

Who was it?

Your buddy Flavio?

Yeah.

Okay. Okay, if I had to pick, I could do 300 days of go-kart or 300 days in the sim. No, forget go-kart. Once you go to cars, you don't go. That's the problem with our sport, I think a little bit, is that, you know, when you grow up playing football, you play from a young age with the ball. The ball doesn't change. Okay, when you're a kid, the goals change,-kart is not the same as a race car. Go-kart, you learn the basics of racing, starts, defending, overtaking,

but a go-kart does not handle like a car. I mean, you already sit completely different, you have suspension. The go-kart, you always have to slide it, right? Because you have the axle, so it always needs to be free and always need to slide. A car is opposite, because the car for me always needs to be stuck on the rear. And of course, then you try to take as much front end as you can, but in general, the rear needs to be stuck.

So the whole driving dynamic is very different. So then I would always say, go to the sim. I mean, do go-kart a little bit for fun, but not as a proper practice. But I mean, I haven't driven a proper go-kart since 2016. Since you left. Yeah, basically since I started racing in Formula One.

Yeah, but you don't miss it? No, I've done it.

Like, you don't want to go back for, well, yeah, I know you've done it, but only just for fun. No, I mean, not at the moment, maybe later, but for now, I enjoy much more going out in a GT car, like doing testing in GT or racing in GT, or being on my simulator at home, preparing for what F1 or doing other stuff, simulator prep for like the stuff that we have in Holland. But yeah, go karting is fine. I mean, it's very good to learn as a kid, but at one point that's done, you know, you need to move on.

Which scene do you use to prepare for Formula One races?

I think now we use mainly Assetto Corsa.

Yeah, but it's not the Assetto Corsa that you can buy on Steam. It is, but we have a bit modified mods. Exactly, so we have models and then even in the files you can adjust things. That's why I think it's very good for us because then we keep playing around with stuff or we ask the guys that make the mod to adjust stuff for us. And also tracks and everything, we try to get them realistic and then we drive and then

we say maybe this curb is not realistic or is too bumpy not enough and then we ask the guy for making some changes and Yeah, we try to make it as realistic as possible.

And about our racing, who has the best iRacing?

He has it. I have also done so much of racing on iRacing.

What's your favorite car in iRacing? Kind of race that you do in iRacing?

The endurance rounds I would say. Yeah, in general endurance I think is always really cool. I think the most of all, the ones that I really enjoy, it's just driving the Nordschleife. So the 25 race there in the night, that's only on the simulator,

that already is so much fun, because you're just by yourself in the night, just sending it flat out. Yeah, that's something that's why I wanted to be there in real life and experience it as well. And yeah, I mean, for me, it feels very much the same. Of course, you know, we are now we have this experience of like, knowing how to drive or feel in the simulator. And then when you jump in the real car, you know, you know how to adjust, right? But how close was it when you drove to the first flying lap? At the Nordschleife? Yeah. It's really close.

I just needed, the only, I mean, I can dream the track, right? I know exactly where I need to be, I know the curbs. Of course, I looked at onboards because the track evolves also a little bit, you know, some curbs have been adjusted. So you need to know just the height of in real life is just the grip level of the tarmac because the tarmac changes every year in places and I needed to know in some areas the bumps so in the first well the outlap

and the first push is all about just knowing how much the car is compressing and moving and the grip level on the different tarmac but in terms of the lines and knowing where to go and how to position the car, it's not

a problem.

And because of all the sim work you did to get ready for, how do you say it in German?

Nordschleife.

Yeah.

Okay.

When you did your first flying lap, what were you about 95%, 90%? How many laps did it take you for you to be 100% comfortable with the track?

I mean, that also, I think it can depend a little bit on the car, right? If the car is a bit like on the edge, you don't feel so comfortable. But the car was very good immediately. So it gave me a lot of confidence to push. So I think the first lap you drive at 95 because you're still like a little bit under it. But immediately when I crossed the line on the second lap, I saw the lap time and I was like, oh, all right. I mean, it's going quite well immediately. So it's just because you have so much,

I've done two or three 24 hour races on the simulator there. So that's, you know, that's a lot of laps anyway. And then the testing is even more, you know, you do 50, 60 hours easily in terms of just preparing every event. So yeah, it's just, like I said, knowing the car, how it moves, and then you put a new set of tires.

How much time are you guys spending on a simulator per day? More or less?

Well, it depends. It depends, right? I mean, some days we do a little bit more, some days also we are on the simulator, we drive for one or two hours, like we race a little bit, we, okay, that's good. And then we do something else. Then we come back later.

There's not really a routine. It's just, you know, if it depends how it goes. See you later. And sometimes we manage to bring a lot of guys together to drive and then we drive for many hours because it's fun and it's more competitive and stuff like this. But, you know, it's not fixed hour, but yeah, I mean, not every day, but I would say

if we are on it's for a few hours.

And do you enjoy, like you have the sim in your house that you guys enjoy, but you have the sim at work at Sauber. Is it enjoyable as well? Because it's obviously more realistic, there's more engineering around, there's a lot, it's much more sophisticated in several areas, because it's probably, I don't know if it's more difficult, but do you enjoy it as much as being home?

If I'm honest, no, I prefer to, you know, not in the sense of what is more realistic because obviously I cannot do setup work in my home, same what I'm going to test in real life, but I can do this in Sauber, for example. But when I'm home, you know, we are with friends and then we are chatting, we are discussing things and then I don't know, when we are driving together, it's like, oh, Gabi, just watch out for this curb in real life because it's more bumpy actually here and there and stuff like this. So we are constantly chatting.

And then, as you said, like you go for lunch and then you come back and you have more freedom. When you are on the team, I believe it's a bit more professional, you know, it's not like... It's work. It's work. Yeah, it's like this. But at the same time, I'm stuck in that sim, and it's a very big platform. So you are there.

You can start, leave, yeah, yourself. And then, I don't know, sometimes you just crash, and you get frustrated because it takes a while to reset. While in the sim home, it's funny. You just crash, and you to work setup and stuff, the team sim is a bit better in this sense. Which track this year most helped you in this year?

Look, I think we have done a lot of Suzuka, if I remember well. We prepared a lot of Suzuka. I think Budapest was very nice as well, even if it's a track I knew already, I believe was a lot of laps and racing. It was good for the racing side as well. And Spa is always enjoyable to do in the sim, even if you don't have it.

When you're talking about sim, you're talking about you drove in your house, you drive usually the GT cars, you drive an F1 car.

No, no, drive an F1 car We have the F1 mod that we use is very good You guys use the same mod or you're gonna use one? No, no, we use the same one. He has his livery, I have my livery

Okay

And we drive, yeah, but I'm talking about the home scene The other thing we do it for every weekend At least for every weekend But mainly new tracks for me because you know As he said about Nordschleife, basically when he got there,

he felt like he was already there, and it's the same for me, new tracks in F1 this year. So that's why I said Suzuka, because I've never been in Suzuka before. But I felt like my first three laps in Suzuka, even if you check my lap times

comparing to other people or my teammates, I was spot on already. I don't know, I just felt like I've been in that track before, even if I've not been there. But I've done so many laps, not only before the F1 weekend, but other tracks, with GT3, with LMP cars, whatever, just for fun and racing with friends. And when I got there, I just felt like I've been there already.

So it was your first visit to Suzuka ever? Yeah, first ever. It's crazy how the whole dynamics changed, because when I was racing, we didn't have anything.

1916.

No.

Shut up.

Shut up.

Shut up.

Like, sim work never existed. So you arrived, you went for a walk, and then you sort of guessed a couple of things here and there, and that was it.

And it took about what, two outings for you to get used?

But not yourself. You would have done Sim if you had in your time because there's many drivers in our generation that don't do it. Because it's not, you know, I don't think it... They don't do it at home. There are not that many drivers but I mean that's your personal preference as well. But I do think that it doesn't hurt at all because also you're constantly thinking about the car, what you can do better, how you can evolve as a driver.

You know, we practice and maybe you're lacking in one corner, why am I lacking in that corner? Am I doing the braking wrong or am I doing the wrong line or too tight, too wide? You're constantly training your brain, you're constantly busy with what is your job, it's racing.

Yeah, but you guys were brought up in a different way. It's like my daughter, I never taught her to do this and one day she got my iPhone and she went like this and then magic. The whole world changed for her and I wasn't used to being brought up in sim stuff, sim work, like you guys use a lot your eyes, like I use a lot my body and for you to, like when I went to Daytona on a good day for me compared to Nasser, I was a second, 1.2, 1.3 slower than him. We went to Watkins Glen, I was like four or five seconds slower than him.

Like that was on the same.

That was, well, screw you. Come on.. No. No. No.

Come on.

If I was forced back in slow,

I wouldn't be fired on the spot.

Come on.

Just making sure.

Yeah, okay.

Yeah, but they did, I mean,

my dad is the same.

I'm sorry.

But my dad is the same. Like, when you're not that interested in it. Plus the new generation, you know, well, humankind evolves also, right? In every sport you see, they start younger. There is more information about your body and how to perform. And that's the same with us.

Like there's much more information data available now. Plus a simulator in terms of preparing yourself well before you even get to the real track.

It's just how, yeah.

Everyone may well.

Maybe the scene, I'm faster than you in Daytona.

Daytona is five corners.

No, it's very easy. No, no, of course, but how slow were you in Daytona? Sorry? How slow were you, you said you were in Daytona? Sorry? How slow were you, you said, you were in Daytona?

A second, one, a second and two, like, that's it. At the Glen it was worse, like Watkins Glen, the big circuit.

Yeah, the Simracon.

Yeah.

So you skipped the simulator, I guess.

Well.

Not for me.

I only did a little bit of sim work the last two years I was driving like 18 and 19. They sent me to Indianapolis, which, which they had the same simulator as Ferrari was using, which was a Dallara simulator. And then I did a little bit of that. I almost pressed the red button a couple of times because I was on the verge of throwing up.

Yeah.

Yeah.

My dad, the same. If he spends too much time behind the screen.

Forget it. No, it took me about three times for me to get used to it. And then after the third time, like it was, it was okay. But in the beginning, like I did a lap and a half, I was, please stop.

It's a good excuse. Actually, I should do that more.

Bring me home.

Is his behavior the same on the sim than on real track?

You mean racing wise? Yeah. No, he's much more clean in the sim. He leaves space, you know, when we are side by side.

He leaves space.

Oh, but actually, I think if we fought in real life, it would be the same. So, yeah. No, it's jokes apart, I think. Yes. I think that's what I like and this is actually an approach I started to take. I don't know if he does this on purpose or not because normally I was taking the piss

in the sim, you know, I was just throwing the car in the corner and spinning like crazy and just, you know, it's a sim, you can reset. But I never see him doing this. So I stopped to think about it. I was like, why he doesn't do it? No. And it's actually, I don't know if I never told you this, but I started taking a bit more serious even at home. Like, I'm not going to do stupid things. Obviously, you can still dive bomb your friends and have fun. But like, you actually try to catch a snap or something like this, because it keeps,

I don't know, working your brain to be in that situation in case you happen to realize it. Yeah, you're exercising, you're reflecting on everything. Yeah, but I've never thought about that before. I said it's a sim, so you can do whatever you want. That's the approach I started to take now.

Let's get out of the sim world a little bit. Hardest track of the season for you? And try not to be biased if the car was good or bad.

No, no, yeah, well, hardest, I think it depends a lot on the way you like tracks, you know,

but for me...

Well, the most challenging.

Yeah, well, definitely Suzuka, it's one of my favorite tracks ever now, after I drove this year, but it's one of the most challenging ones. I believe just, you know, because if you do a mistake in one corner, it feels like it affects you for the whole sector, basically, because it's one after the other. So, I don't know, but one of the most difficult ones, I think, Austin, you know, is not an easy one as well, very bumpy and, yeah, it's just not an easy track.

And, what else? I think that's it. And for you, Max? Yeah, well, I mean, I don't like street circuits. So I think in general, then that must be the most challenging, just because I don't like it, because I feel like a fun car doesn't belong on the street circuit.

So like, even in Monaco, it's like...

You just said something that we keep talking about almost every week. The sizes that the cars are nowadays, forget it. It's almost impossible to race in Monaco.

They're way too big.

Well, let's say like this, if Monaco would not have been on the calendar ever, and now they would say, ah, can you come and race here? For sure it would not be possible. Yeah. It's just because of the history.

Yeah. And that's fine, but these cars are too long, too wide, too heavy, I find. And that, of course, is also hurting the racing, because I feel like the cars now, even in high speed, you lose downforce when you're behind, but it's quite controlled. But it's more in the low speed, actually, where when you try to get close, you cannot get close because the acceleration, and out of the corner, you're sliding,

and it's just difficult to get out of the corner you lose a lot of time so yeah. The delta needs to be really big to really get... Yeah and the cars are in a way of course too efficient on the straight to really have the drag effect, yeah the DRS helps but it's not in some places not enough and that's why I think for me street circuit so Monaco is always a challenge, I would say. A big one in qualifying, especially when you really need to get everything out of it. And Baku as well.

It's not an easy track, I always find, because of the big stopping speeds in the first sector to get that right. Yeah, those for me are the hardest ones, I would say.

You talked about the card, it's too big to have. Which era of the Formula 1, if you could choose to come back,

you choose, your preference? For you?

Fangio.

Did you watch him?

I saw him.

Now he's also starting already. Early 2000s, so like 2000 till 2005. In terms if I had to choose one outside of my, yeah, I think well, it just already the

noise of the engines.

I remember.

I always keep telling you that. Already the noise of the engines, I remember... That van?

I always keep telling you that. Yeah, because the emotions of the engine, you know, when I was like a kid, even when you would rock up, not even in the paddock, but going to the paddock, if these cars would go out, you have like goosebumps, you know? It's like, it doesn't matter if the car was 300 or 350, it was just something that is just incredible.

And now sometimes it's almost like there is a…

Well the Porsche Cup makes more noise than…

Yeah, it's like a Hoover on the straight. That's how we pass sometimes. But it's better for our ears, but the emotion is a lot less, I would say. So that's why I would choose those kind of cars. Plus, I think, like, you know, pushing a bit more like flat out, I think would have suited me as well.

So yeah, that would have been cool.

Okay.

And you, Gabi?

I think the first memories I have from F1, it's back in 2008, 7, 8, you know, I was still super young, but you know, probably my father was watching this. So I think that generation of cars were still very, very enjoyable. I didn't see that, obviously, now on the replay, yes. Definitely I would love to try one day, you know, back in 1990, something like this, the cars there, because they look very different different also compromised, you know It's not downforce, but it's 505 kilos. Yeah, but it looks like it was 35% smaller the car

Yeah, but that's that's why I would like to try you know, it's also a different approach You need to drive and everything But obviously if you think about light and grip and downforce probably this era that he said and yeah It's thousands from 2010 and stuff like this.

Do you talk with Nelson Sr. about this era?

About his? Yeah. Yeah, well, there are a lot of stories have passed when we have talked about it. Yeah. It's beautiful, you know, to learn and listen also about his experiences back in the day and what all happened.

Things also that cannot be said on a podcast, but no, it's always very nice to be able to talk about it.

And he asked you about the actual things?

A little bit. I mean, when I think you've raced yourself, you understand most of it, but of course the technicality now, you know, the battery involved as well with the engine and then in general just the whole format of the race, weekend has changed a bit you know along the way. So yeah sometimes we talk about it but at the same time also not for too long because we don't want to talk too much about Formula One, we just talk about something else.

Sure, well I wanted to ask him, I asked him bit, but people want to know, how's the track in Brasilia?

It's good. Well, I mean, we did two laps and then your dad, I think started to get a bit excited because then he was starting to push already. That was fun to be next to. Yeah, he was driving it. When I a good, when I trust the driver and I'm a good passenger. So, it was all good. I mean, it looks great. The renovations look very

nice. They told me that it would be finished in 20 days, which I think is a challenge, let's say, but I think it's going to be, yeah, it's going to be a challenge. I think it's gonna be a challenge, I hope it's finished because I think the layout of the track is very fast And I think it's a great track to, yeah it's there so Yeah, that tarmac looked good, I hope the grip is fine but again I mean the more you run on it it should be okay

These are the favorite tracks of Nelson and Christian, did you use one?

Yeah it's very nice

how it's put on the wall. Yeah. Probably only that one you wouldn't hang on the wall. Monaco. Yeah. Well, yeah. All that. Yeah. Just cancel all the street circus. It's only that one. Yeah, exactly. The rest is good. Yeah. It's nice. Next time I'll bring a Nordschleife. Oh, sure. I haven't had the chance yet. Yeah, we'll do a smaller version. But yeah, I think it's gonna be good. Looks great.

They're making it look good again.

Nice.

You talk about Nordschleife. Do you have this kind of dreams outside Formula 1 to drive Le Mans, Nordic life or not now?

Well, I definitely do have the dreams to do that. I think actually the first time I came here, you asked you if you had a plan B. If I not get to F1. And I still felt like, obviously, I respect a lot of drivers that race in other series and that's something, again, that I want to do in my life at other points, not right now, because I just got to Formula One, I still need to achieve so much, you know, like I have not achieved anything basically in Formula One yet.

So, I still want to make a successful career in Formula One, hopefully one day. And then after that, I would love to think about doing other things because I'm passionate about racing and in any car, you know, even rally or whatever, I would do it. But if I didn't get to Formula One, I would still feel the same. I wouldn't like to race because it would be a failure for me to do my entire life thinking about achieving something and not doing it. So I wouldn't be happy, probably. I would be very frustrated on not getting to Formula One and not happy on doing any other series.

But anyway, now I'm in and hopefully I stay for long and have a successful time here. But definitely in the future, like Le Mans, I really like it and I think there is a lot of history behind. Nordschleife, it's cool as well, but I think I'm a bit more a fan of Le Mans, probably just from the history of it. And definitely Indy 500. I will do it. Imagine the adrenaline must be incredible, you know, of going so fast. Probably very dangerous, but cool to do it.

What are you doing?

No, I'll come and sit in the pit wall and I'll be your spotter.

You're all clear, all clear.

Oh, sorry, there was someone.

You can come to TV booth with us for Indy 500.

I'll just sit there, I'll be gin tonic, I'll be all clear.

Oh no, I'm not clear.

Gav, are you okay?

These two are the TV commentators for Indy 500, the narrators.

I'm not sure I would be a good commentator.

I think there will be a lot of bleeping.

Okay.

Not good.

You're stupid. I think I know what I'm good in and bad at, you know, so definitely not a commentator.

Is Formula One harder or easier than, easier is not the correct word, is it harder than what you expected or not, or more or less what you expected inside the track and outside of the track?

That was my question.

Yes. Well, inside of the track? That was my question. Yes. Well, inside of the track, again, it's a racing car. It's four tires. Obviously, there's a lot more to think about when you're driving. You have so many things you can change and study with your engineer.

But driving-wise, you need to get used to it. And when you get used to it, it's just another car and you need to push it to the limit and extract everything you have. Outside of the track is much more difficult than what I thought, you know, the amount of media commitments we have during the weekend is just crazy, it's too much. I think we always complain about it and maybe it doesn't look so nice but the truth is, you know, when you're in F3 or F2, you have so much free time compared to F1, You can work more with engineers, you can spend more time thinking about the driving side of things and also relax and not spend too much energy. And in F1, I don't know, I have times a lot with

engineers that are small and then media, media, media, our commitments here and there, sponsors, meet and greet, and then it ends up that obviously it's necessary because, you know, sponsors paying the bill for you to race.

And the salaries.

And the salaries, exactly. So obviously I'm never going to complain about that because I understand, but you know, this is much harder because the amount of energy I spend before going to the track on Friday is crazy. At the beginning of the year I was going, you know, Friday, I was cooked. My mind was...

So imagine Interlagos, his first race in Interlagos, and it's a sprint race. So it's, I wouldn't say double the work, but it's much more work, I would say, than a normal

weekend.

It's more hectic. No, you have one practice session, straight to qualifying, race, straight to qualifying again. Ray, straight to qualifying again? Yeah, but if I said that Interlagos was at the beginning of the year, I would probably struggle more with these things, because I was not used to it. Now I understood a bit better how to manage it. I was taking things too serious at the beginning of the year.

You know, I was too serious. Every commitment I had, I was like, oh, super... Too stressed about it. Yes, and now I'm just to just feel much more relaxed through the weekend. And it has been working out for me, you know, I feel like I'm happier also during the weekends now than probably I was at the beginning of the year, you know.

I was trying to get to the track on Wednesday, you know, and fuck, I just wanted to be there as soon as possible. And now, obviously, I understand that there is a reason why everyone tries to go as late as possible and stay home as much as they want. But you learn that also a bit along the way. I mean, in your rookie season, it's a bit similar, right? You are very keen also.

I mean, you don't know all the dynamics, no, in that place I can arrive a bit later, or it, it only gets better in that sense of understanding how to deal with your, your time. Time management is super important when you, you have so many races, so many marketing days and simulator days apart from what you do at home, you know, so it's all about time

management.

Yeah.

No, pretty cool. You know, so it's all about time management. Yeah.

No, pretty cool. If you had to pick understeer car or oversteery? Yes.

I don't, I mean, I don't know. I just don't like so much understeer. It feels like with understeer, you cannot do really much. You can still do something, but you are limited. With oversteer you can control the car. You can control the car. Understeer is slow, it doesn't matter if you like it or not.

It's slow. If you want a fast car, it needs to be on the nose. And then you can change your driving if it's too much or too little. You can really provocate a bit more the car if you want. But if it's understeer, you're just limited by that. Understeer is fast until you need the final... It depends a bit on the category, but if you...

You can get, let's say, understeering in Q1 is okay, but if you want to do the best lap you can in Q3, you cannot have an understeering car.

Because you will be 2 tenths slower.

Yeah. Yeah, Mario Andretti always used to say this. Especially on an oval. When you went out to qualify on an oval, because it's only two laps, the tyres are going to hold you. And that's it. You need to run it on the nose.

That was IndyCar. And what did Fangio say on F1?

Sorry? It's every week. It's every week like this. I'm not an oval specialist, but when you see the cars going around there, like a car that is set up to just be safe, I mean, safe is slow. It needs to always be on edge.

Yeah, in the race, exactly.

In qualifying, you need to run it on the edge. In the race, you back off a little bit because of the turbulence.

Unless you have margin and you can set it up a bit slow. Safe. But it depends on, I mean, what was it, like two years ago, I think, the Penskis were flying. They could run it a bit more safe because that looked planted, but that was probably because they had a bit of an edge on everyone else, but it just depends a bit how good you are. But if it's tight, you need to squeeze the last little bit out of it. And the only way to do that is to put it on the nose.

Do you enjoy watching the oval races or no?

I like it. I mean, I like watching all different kind of racing. For me it's just that on Oval I don't want to do it just for the risk of injury or when you hit the fence. It's not worth it also if you have done your stuff in Formula One. Maybe you can win more there also. That would be something that I would love but it's not worth the risk of having a really bad accident and you know hurt yourself really badly and I know in the front that can happen as well but there hitting the wall with like 370 or whatever

it's not something that I'm planning to do but it's sometimes not even your fault right I mean anything can happen and sometimes avoid a little bit of the risk. Yeah, if you can, I would do that.

Which is your favorite category to watch? Two wheels, four wheels?

MotoGP. Yeah, like if I could choose anything, like let's say if you couldn't race on four wheels or race in general,

I would say no, MotoGP.

MotoGP.

Would you race? Well, I would say no, MotoGP. MotoGP. Would you race? Wow, if I had the talent. Yeah, we were talking about risk and MotoGP. That is if I wouldn't succeed in anything that I do on four wheels. I mean, you have to do something. I mean, I cannot be a...

Because you did a bit of biking when you were small, no? Yeah I raced on the mini bikes, when I was like 8 to 12 or something. I enjoyed it a lot. I think I quickly realized that I have more talent on four wheels but I enjoyed it and now still I really love watching MotoGP. They're crazy but like good crazy. I really like it.

Talking about risk, it's a relatively similar, well in the subject, having your own daughter now, did it make you think about it when you're driving or not really? Not when I'm in the race, like doing a move or whatever, no. It definitely doesn't make you slower for sure. I mean everyone that says these kind of things, like it's absolute bullshit. It doesn't make you slower for sure. I mean everyone that says these kind of things, it's absolute bullshit. It doesn't work like that.

I mean if you're there to perform, I mean it's your job at the end of the day. You arrive there and you need to perform and even when you have a kid that doesn't change when you sit in the car and you're going into qualifying, you want to do the best you can or when you start the race, if there's an opportunity, you send it, you go for it. But it does change in terms of how, if you have a good race, a bad race, you can be upset about it, but then actually when you get back home and you see the baby smiling and being

there and you see your family, then you're like, whatever, if you had a terrible race or whatever, you know, if you had a terrible race or whatever, you're like, forget about it. And this is more important than, you know, your racing

results or life in a way.

That it made you realize that or before, before...

Well, I could do that already a bit before. I mean, I think I learned that also along the way that sometimes, yeah, you need to just try and be a bit more relaxed about it. But more now, yeah, having a daughter, it's, yeah, makes you worry. Like, especially the season that I had in the beginning, you know, we had a lot of tough results and not always being happy or enjoying the situation. But then at least I was enjoying the situation when I would come back home

and just spend time with the family.

See, as you're a couple of days away, you're learning with the master here.

He's in good, he's there. But I think Christian is more relieved

because Christian is the team boss of Nelson and Sokka.

He's the team boss.

Well, I mean, I just have to laugh because, I mean, of course, I got a daughter and then he was laughing that he was getting it. I was like, oh, now both of us have a problem.

You also have a daughter?

Yeah, but mine is 15.

Any day.

So the problem is starting now.

Very good.

Very good.

Max, you talk about the beginning of the season when you answer about the daughter.

What do you think was the turning beginning of the season, when you answer about the daughter.

What do you think was the turning point of the season for you?

Probably I would say what we learned in Zandvoort. Honestly, we really tried going left and right with the car, which is very extreme, I think, in Formula 1, because normally it's always about little percentages left and right. We tried it all and it was, nothing was, nothing was really working. So at one point we were like, well, there's only one more thing that we can do. We did it. And that gave us a bit of a direction of, yeah, a bit better balance. I mean, it was still not good enough, but at least since then, every time we got to

the racetracks, okay, sometimes we were fast enough, sometimes not, but in general, we were more consistent from FP1 to qualifying race, we were always or there or too slow, right? It's just stable, where all the races up until Zanfo, we could be really bad, really good, really bad in a good, really bad in a weekend, you know, bad, good, bad.

So yeah, it was, I think from then onwards, at least the car just fell a bit in a window and it was a bit more easier, like a bit easier for me also to drive, which of course helps a lot as well, better on the tires naturally, because yeah.

The question goes for both of you. I mean, was old information from wind tunnel, old, old, um, how do you call it? I don't know what's the right word, but all the numbers you put in the SIM, you guys built the car. So, you know, exactly all the pinpoints of everything

that you put into the SIM. Why wouldn't, why couldn't you find these results at home? At home I mean, in the racetrack, in the simulator. Is there still a small percentage of difference between things you do in the sim to the real

life? I think for us, because I think we had such dominant years, we didn't push the car to extreme. And we had an advantage initially, I think, you know, the cars were all bouncing a lot, right? Our car did not really have that a lot and we were quite good at that. And then we got a little bit comfortable maybe with that. Yeah, not being too extreme.

Did you feel that everything you have done at home as a homework in the team was the sim?

No, the sim is a very helpful tool, but it's not like sometimes things happen differently. Yeah, like in the sim, it's not 100% perfect as well, you know, you need to, we know, I'm not going to be here telling what are our things in the sim that doesn't work or yeah, but there's things in the sim that we know that we cannot test because our sim is limited by some stuff. So we already know that we cannot rely on some information we get from these tests we

do. So basically, yeah.

And sorry for my ignorance. I know it's, I don't know if it's a curiosity that I have or maybe the public also has. In the level that you guys are in F1, from a Sauber to a Ferrari to a McLaren to a Red Bull, is there big differences in sim quality you guys think? I mean, obviously you've been in your team forever. You've been in your team just for one year.

But from the rumors, not rumors, from the information you guys know, is there sims that are much better than

others or everybody's pretty much on the same level? Yes, yes, there are. I mean, I don't know about Red Bull, I've never been there, but obviously we hear rumors as you said. But yeah, our sim, it's still a sim that, again it can be very good in some stuff, but it's a bit of a room for the simulator itself, right?

Because it's all about the software and the time.

That's what I'm talking about.

Yeah. There are big differences. Yeah. It's a never ending learning curve, right? I mean, you keep adjusting, keep trying to be better.

Ties also like they keep changing and you have to keep chasing it.

You can have the best simulator platform, you can have the best software for the car, but if your tires aren't terrible, then what are you going to do? Because I mean, the tires at the end of the day are the only thing that touch the ground.

If you don't have that correct, then forget about all the other stuff. together, like you have to make it all work together. And like you said, everyone knows their limitations. So then you just try to not go too extreme with those parameters

and just work on other things.

Do you think the tire war can be something good for Formula 1?

I mean, it would be good for us, because you get better tires in terms of the manufacturers having to push against each other. But at the end of the day, it's all about the cost. That's why the cost cap has been introduced and of course a ban on testing really. And that's why teams are investing more in the simulator naturally. Yeah, so I think for the drives, it would be good, but then at the same time,

it could be good, but it could be bad, right? wrong manufacturer, then you know your season is lost. So, yeah, I think for best possible tires on an F1 car, yeah, that would be very good. But now at least everyone has the same tires, you know, so then that side is fair. And then you have to work with your team to build the best car and engine.

This is our special program with Max Verstappen and Gabriel Bortoletta. Now let's enjoy and make our Pit Stop moment of today. Our Pit Stop for today, Gabi and Max. What are the main qualities you most admire in Max? And Max, what are the qualities that Gabi has that you most admire in him?

Well, what I like with Gabi is that he's just himself, you know? It doesn't matter what kind of success you have or what you're driving in your career. He's very hungry and he wants to always be better. He's very self-critical as well. And I think that is very important,

especially also when you start, the F1 world can be quite, I think, overwhelming sometimes. A lot of people can come to you, they want to try and become friends. It's very important to understand who your real friends are, have the right people around you to keep you grounded. And I think Gabi has that.

He's just a super nice sweet guy, but a killer on track. And I think that's what you need to have to be successful I think

in Formula 1.

Okay, and you Gabi?

Well, I think…

If it's nothing you can also say it.

Next question. No, I think what I always found very nice from him, you know, is even before when I met him when we were studying the histories in Adria or anytime I met him, he was exactly the same guy. So, you know, I don't want to get in any big polemic here, but 90 percent of the F1 drivers, they're not like this. You know, I don't know if you like,

they're in F1 and things are different or they treat you in a way if you are in F1. But when you are not in F1, they don't treat you well or they don't give you attention. And I feel like Max has never been like this. He always gave me a lot of support even before F1. And not only for me, but you see the other guys that we drive in the sim and he's never different, you know.

And we always joke about it because I think if someone stops Max in the street, and he keeps talking to the person for two hours, even if he doesn't know the person, until you take him out, you know, because it's like this. And I think this is very nice, because this is outside of the track. And when he's on track, he's just, you know, a beast. He goes in and dive bombs and makes the move. And I think this is nice. You know, you separate very well who you are outside and inside the track and people respect you from who you are.

And in the media, he doesn't try to be different and nice to the camera or bad. He's just himself as well. And I think this is the most important thing that I try to be as well, because again, that's a thing I admire in people

that I live with and I try to be like this.

Ok.

That was our moment...

I'm gonna get you a tissue, wanna?

That was our moment of today's Pitstop. The Pitstop network is the largest network of car parts in Brazil and you have the convenience of buying your part on WhatsApp, in the store or through the internet. Pitstop network. The part is at Pitstop, the largest network of car parts in Brazil. of Brazil and you have the convenience of buying your piece on WhatsApp, in the store or through the Internet. Pitstop network.

The piece is on Pitstop, the largest network of car parts in Brazil. Parts in the store, through WhatsApp or the site.

OK, let's continue our podcast with Max Verstappen and Gabriel Bortoletto. Hello, Borto. I think it's the same cell phone as Christian you have.

Yeah, yeah.

Is it the same one? Okay.

It's a nice one.

I broke mine.

He's still learning how to use it. It's flippy. It's flippy. It's flippy, doc.

It's Alcantara or Alcantara?

How do you say? Depends if you're English or from Brazil. Okay. How do you say it in Italy?

Alcântara? I don't know. Tom!

He don't know.

No.

Alcântara is the normal.

What's the most normal way to say it in...

Alcântara?

Ah! Oh!

Since when he's an example of... Yeah, it's true.

Puxa saco.

It's true.

Yeah. Yeah, it's true. Puxa Saco. Yeah, yeah.

But I think it's 3v2. For sure.

I think it's Alcântara. Yeah, in Brazil.

I think it's Alcântara. For sure, 3v2.

I think we have to ask Germany, France, Spain,

China, Japan.

See what we get.

Okay.

Chris? Ask Chris. If you... I don't know what to send. Okay, send it. I don't know what to send.

If you... I don't know what to send. I don't know what to send.

I don't know what to send.

I don't know what to send. Ok, send it. I don't know if enjoyable is the right word, but if it's going to be more satisfying just because of where you were, like sort of in the middle of the season and where you ended up compared to the other championships that you clinched or you just look at it as

another one and I'm just trying my very best all the time.

Yeah, I think the first one is always the most emotional one. Yeah, but that first one, I mean, oh yeah, that doesn't count. So that's why for me it never really will be the same like that. It's like your first win, you know, like your first win, the emotions in terms of on the spot when you cross the line. I've never felt that of course up until winning my first championship.

All the other wins, I mean, of course, they've all been great in their own right, but that same kind of like screaming emotion of happiness I've not felt again. That's why I think even let's say if I win it this year, it's going to be like an unexpected kind of comeback, right? And yeah, if it happens, I mean, great, fantastic. I think it's crazy that we are still talking about the championship, even though for most of the season I felt like I was completely out of it because we were just far off.

And I think even now, we have had some good races lately, but I think on pure pace, we're not, I would say, there yet. But we're just going to give it everything we have. And we have nothing to lose because worst case you're with P3, best case you're first. And then yeah, I mean, that's great. But I always said after my first title that everything else that comes next is a bonus

and I take it and I'm happy with it. And I know of course that every time I sit in the car, I will try and maximize everything that I've got, right? So that's what I'll try to do. And yeah, if we're in Abu Dhabi or whatever, even let's say maybe before, if it doesn't work out, then yeah, it's fine. I mean, life goes on.

I have many things anyway already that I'm thinking about of fun related stuff. So my life continues and you know that result is not going to define if I'm going to be happy or sad, right? I mean, fun is also just in a way, hopefully a short part of your life. So I just think about it as my work, my performance. I enjoy it, but it's not going to define if I'm going to be upset in December and I'm not going to be speaking to anyone or whatever, right? It's just, it's fine. You know, I can easily put it aside, you know,

left or right and just do other stuff or...

So when you, let's backtrack a little bit. When you went to Spain, you, prior to that, when you got the phone call, Max, you're gonna be in the Red Bull. Excellent, I imagine you were happy. Then you went to Spain. When you were on your way to Spain, did you ever expect

to win that race?

No, no, no, for sure not.

Or you expected like just to have a good outing, finish in the top four, top five, like first

race is going to be good or did it even cross your mind, I can win this thing?

No, not at all. But I'm anyway a little bit like that. I'm always a bit like, we'll see. I don't really stress about it too much. Even now, I don't think about the Grand Prix yet, because for me it's just a waste of energy in my brain. And that's actually a discussion that I've had a lot with my dad from when I was very young, because he saw it as a bit of a laziness or not being interested enough. And I said, no, I mean, I know that when I sit in the go-kart or in the car, you know, I know what I need to do and I know that I will give it everything I have or more.

It's just that I don't want to waste, for me at least it feels like that, I don't want to waste days before arriving somewhere that you're mentally thinking about it so much. You're just tiring yourself for nothing. And that's why the same there, I mean I was busy anyway, I was on the simulator and preparing and talking to the engineers and then, so we'll see what happens.

I mean when I jump in the car, I never driven the car also in real life, so I was like, oh we'll see in FB1 how I feel with the car and then just go from there, like work your way through the weekend. And then immediately the car felt quite nice. I felt comfortable, but still I was such a rookie. I was still really getting up to speed in general, even in F1. So throughout that weekend, yeah, working with new people,

I mean, a whole new engineering group. It was just about, yeah, finding the limits of the car, every session a little bit more. And then I got a little bit upset with myself in qualifying because in the final run in Q3, I locked up in the last sector, which is killing in Barcelona.

So then, you know, it's again, learning moment, you know, you haven't found the correct way of driving yet with the car. So then when I was on the grid for the race, also the team told me like, just score points.

I didn't even know where I qualified, P5 or P4.

I think it was P4, yeah.

P4, so I knew a good result would be possible, right? But I already had two times a P4 with Toroso, so it was also not like I had a lot of pressure or stress to not have a good result. But I knew, okay, I need to do a good start, stay out of trouble, don't hit my teammates. You know, in your first race, you have to be super careful with that. So that's why in turn one, I was quite careful.

And actually I lost out to Seb, but then I passed him around the outside in turn three. So like those kind of moments, okay, I'm getting to the limit of the car in stressful situations. And then of course the whole thing in turn four happened.

I was like, maybe a podium is possible today, but a lot still has to go right, because I think back then it was two stop, three stop, like it was very close. So then, yeah, I just settled in, tried to find my rhythm with the car, and then, yeah, the race just evolved. I try not to overthink as well the situation, just, you know, follow your instincts, I think as well, and yeah, just go from there. So then of course, when I crossed the line, yeah, it was crazy.

And I had a very fun night, of course, for sure. Yeah, so yeah, but back then, that was a bit easier. I mean, I would say in 2016 already, like you could still go out, people were not really bothering you too much. You know, you could really have a good time with everyone now. Every time you want to go out, it's like people with a phone all the time.

So it doesn't feel great. But back then it was really fun. And yeah, a great start to the team. I mean it takes also a little bit the pressure off because I think at the time not everyone in the team was fully convinced of putting me in the car.

So that was like, yeah, great start.

Couldn't be any better. Yeah. And your move in Mexico on the outside at the end of the last race, was it planned or sort of it happened because the whole situation designed itself and then you had to make a fraction of a second like... I mean, I took a bit too long to overtake him.

Yeah.

When I got to him, you know, I had, we stayed out for longer with the first, with the mediums, so that the tire that I started, like this, we tried to create a bit of advantage on tire comparing to Isaac. And then when I got to him, you know, it's very difficult with these Depon cars. You really need to have a big advantage and I don't think I had that much. When I got to him, I managed to get twice close to him. He defended very

well. But I mean, I was P11, he was P10 and I knew he was the position for the point. So in that last moment, I just said, you know, I go for it, I tried already twice, in the outside it didn't work, so I said if I crash now I crash, but I need to do something because I was already getting frustrated. I was too long behind the guy and I didn't want to finish there, you know, because I generally had a bit more pace. So I think, you know, I tried to go in the inside and then he defended on the inside, so I just remember pulling out and it was already a moment of breaking. So I didn't really realize it was a moment of breaking, but I worked so late

and then I combined in the corner quite a lot and I think I squeezed him quite a lot in the curve and it looks very nice from the outside, but inside the car everything happened so quickly, you know. And it ended up being a very nice move. Plus, it didn't show in the TV because they missed a lot of moments in the middle field, but we actually kept fighting until T6. Because it was funny, because even if I overtook him, I ended up so wide out of T1

that I didn't have the angle to do T2 and T3 properly. And you need to cut very well that corner. If you don't cut it well, or if you cut it too slow, you jump all over the place. So I managed to cut it, but I didn't cut it with enough speed, so I was jumping on the traction zone.

Even if I had the arrest, you know, if you're in the gearbox of the guy, you don't have the arrest, you can still pull away in the last moment. So he did that and my engineer was in the radio like, good job, good job. I was like, don't talk, don't talk, don't talk. Because he was still side by side.

And then in T5 he's standing in the outside and then in T6 I run the, no, sorry, T4 and then in T5 I run in the outside on him again. So until T6, I was still side by side. It didn't show on the on-board camera. It doesn't show because in my on-board camera, I think it's showing... They choose certain angles because they cannot... all the cars have all the angles, right? So then, yeah.

Maybe in Isaac's car, we can see something. Isaac's car was in the rear wing and my one was the front wing. So you cannot even see the side by side. You can see that I take a very wide line in T5. Okay, we need the CCTV of the track.

It was nice. But talking about these rookie drivers,

I mean, four drivers came from F2 to F1 this year, right? Yeah, at least four.

Oli, Isa, yourself and... Antonelli.

Liam, but Liam was already last year in F1.

Yeah. And Franco. Well, yeah, but these four were fighting every weekend in Formula 2 last year, basically. Has any of them surprised you or been a bit, how can I say it? You know, maybe it's, maybe I don't know if it's easier or harder to judge in a Formula 2 car because people are in different learning phases. Some people have done two seasons, you were in your rookie season.

So for sure there were a lot of things that Isaac did better, but when you do two seasons in Formula 2, it changes a lot of things. I mean, you have so much little testings and when you go there for a second time it helps a lot. But now going to Formula One, all of these guys, I know everybody's in different teams, again it's difficult to compare but has some of them really said, well he's doing better

or has it changed your opinion about how they've been driving? One thing with F2 is that you need to sometimes be aware when there's a car change. I think some of them did one year with the old car and one year with the new car.

That's not good.

Okay, so it's not that much of an advantage.

Well, it would always be better if you have the same car, right? Because I think some of them did the final year of the old car and then the first year of the new car, which is a lottery.

I mean, it would be better to start-

But the tires were the same.

Yeah, I think so. They were already on the big tires, but that is not always easy because you might be in the wrong car, wrong team, right? They don't get it right with run the car. It's actually crazy. That can be a problem. That I think has been a little bit, I mean-

Masking maybe some of-

Masking maybe some of the talent, because I think the difference in some cars was a bit bigger than it should have been with setup. But yeah, normally you don't have that. I mean, it's a few years, right, that you have that maybe that you do one year in the old car and one year in the new car. But in F1, well...

So just to start up the answer, for example, from us looking from outside, Oli is doing much better job, let's say in F1, than what he seemed to be doing in F2.

But that's what Mike said, for example. I think Oli has been always talented enough to do what he did to be doing in F2. But that's what Mark said, for example. I think Oli has been always talented enough to do what he did in Mexico. I just feel like in F2, I believe also because he was doing so much FP1s and stuff like this, maybe his focus was,

it's not that he was not focusing on F2, but you cannot focus completely in F2 when you are doing a two-schedule program, you know? Plus it's a big change of grip between one session to another. And you only... they were doing literally F2, and then you don't even have time to talk to your engineers, you jump in an F1 car, and then you need to go straight to quali.

And it's not easy to make the switch again when you only have, what, two laps in Bali, proper laps, you know, with new sets. So it's not easy for sure. Some tracks can be an advantage, you know, tracks that we have done FPs in the wet in F2 and then they did in the dry in F1. So they got a bit of running with dry track. But this is a bit of inconsistent thing.

But I think what Ollie has been doing recently is good. But again, I think it's difficult to judge. I think we shouldn't judge drivers by results only, but by the same thing I'm saying that Franco is not doing a good job, because it's not true. He's doing it, in my view, you know, obviously he cannot score points because he doesn't have the car capable of doing that.

You see, he's not far away from Gasly, for example. So, I mean, it's just difficult to judge because no one is talking about him because he doesn't have a card to score points. No one was talking about me at the beginning of the year, even if, OK, my evolution was big through the year. Yes, I believe so, because I also have not done any F1 testing before.

But we also brought big upgrades that put us in a position to score points. So if we didn't bring these upgrades, probably we wouldn't be here talking about good results I did. We would be only saying, oh, OK, you're having a tough season in F1, like a lot of people do. So also Haas brought upgrades recently, and you can see the step up they did, because now they have been fighting on the points for three races in a row already. I think RB has been strong since the beginning of the year, to be honest. You know, since Melbourne, I think, Tsunoda was in the top five in qualy. So I think that they

have a very good car and it's just difficult to compare, you know, but I think all the rookies that are here this year, they deserve to be there. I believe we all did good results in F2.

We all proved somehow, you know, let me. Let me maybe add a little bit more then. Is there any other drivers from F2, from the last season you did, that you think, well that guy, he's very good, he deserves as well to be in F1 for example? That you've seen, that you've raced with, that you've...

The problem is that I think there are a lot of drivers that deserve a shot at Formula One, isn't it? Even that never made it to Formula One and are in endurance or GT, you know what I mean? Like, there's so many people that maybe deserve a shot, some maybe make it, some... And I mean, you can say the same of people that are in Formula One, do they deserve to be in Formula One or not, right? But yeah, sometimes you just get a bit lucky or not, that you just hit the right spot at the right place, right time. Yeah, you know, so yeah, it's a tricky one.

Unfortunately, there are not enough seats in Formula 1 to really test everyone, I guess. And yeah, some people, they never really get the full opportunity to do it. And like I said, I think F2 sometimes can be a very tricky championship as well. Just to really show all the talent. I mean, the real, the proper big talents will always shine, right? But if it's like, tough to make it and you just

need that one more one year where you need to shine and F2 is maybe not always the right place but at the end, the other series like it's all getting like pushed towards F3 and F2 now. Nowadays, it's not anymore like a 3.5 or... I mean, super formal I think is great, but the problem is that it's so...

Far away.

Isolated, right? In Japan, unfortunately, while it's a great car, I think.

But yeah.

Hala?

No, I was just gonna say, you know, I based on results in F2, Berman was not supposed to be in F1. Not even Kimi. But yeah, sometimes you need to trust the talent and the process. And yeah, I'm sure there are many drivers that have not reached F1 and they did F2, but they were very good, capable of being good Formula 1 drivers, probably, but they never been in a good team or maybe didn't have the money to do so.

So it's difficult. Talking about F2, now I have a tricky question for you guys. How do you think this whole Colton Hurta next year, him moving to F2 to try to reach F1, would it be something you guys think is going to be interesting, you guys think

is going to do well?

I mean, how do you... He has to do it, right, for the superlicense points. I think the big one will be just to understand the tires, because the tires are very different,

I think, to...

And tracks, it has not been...

Yeah, tracks.

But he's raced a little bit in Europe. And the sim also helps you quite a bit. Yeah, for sure that will help a bit. When you have only one FP session, the big one is really tires. It's not easy, you know.

Tire management, that's what I think he needs to really get on top of.

Do you think all his experience in IndyCar... I heard it, don't manage so much.

It doesn't really look like this.

No, not managing tires, but when I went to F2, the delta of speed was enormous compared to F3, to F2. So it was not only getting used to the track.

The IndyCar and F2 are fairly similar.

Yeah, but what I'm saying, it took a while to get used to. There were some of the tracks I didn't know. Tire okay, because we had the groove tire that had the lines on the tire. But also the speed of the car, you know, it's a bit intimidating the first couple of races, you know, he's gonna be-

I mean, he's already testing with the old car now. So I think he will be over that phase of-

No, but he's, you know, he's gonna have an advantage because he did what, how many seasons in IndyCars?

Six? Yeah, but like I said, I think the big one is the tire. Like to understand the difference between what you're doing in the US and Pirelli tire, it's very different. So, and is this F2 tire, I don't know, maybe it's a random question, but is this tire is how you can buy to go testing or not really?

Is the same as an F1? No, or not. How do you do the testing? Yeah, a similar tire.

Yeah, you have similar tires. That Pirelli sells? I believe so, yeah. Pirelli sells similar tires. It's not very, it's exactly the same, but yeah.

It's like an old GP2.

You'll get the picture of overheating and deck, that's for sure. Yeah, definitely. That's what he needs.

Talking about different drivers, for example, Kalle Hovenpera, coming from Helyally and he wants to do Formula 2 and Formula 1. Do you think it's possible to do this transition?

Anything is possible. But I mean, I'm very excited to see the project that he's going to do. It is going to... It's not going to be easy. I mean, it doesn't matter if you go from Formula to Rally or Rally to... Like, it is very different. But I like it. I like that he takes on the challenge.

I just hope that with the team around him, that they give him a good opportunity, they prepare him well, put him in the right team. At the end of the day, of course, you need to be quick, you need to prepare yourself well, but you still need to make the right decision with going to the right team, in the categories that you're going to race at. I'm going to follow for sure, you know, how he's gonna do. And I mean, I hope for him that of course

is gonna be a success story and that he can be competitive of course, quite quickly, you know, to the people that he's racing. And I mean, in general, I think even for us, if you have to move to Japan and race in Japan is a culture shock.

It's the same as for them coming to Europe. You know, it's very different dynamics and having to talk to your engineering team, they're mainly Japanese, the language barrier sometimes as well, it's normal. It's going to take a bit of... Yeah, well, even for him, I think, to realize, well, what am I doing?

It's going to be quite different.

And you talk about IndyCar and this transition from Cotonerta to Formula 2. What do you think about Alex Pallou? That he's dominating the category, the IndyCar.

He was my teammate in go-karting at CRG.

And Red Line also.

Yeah, even did some races together with Alex on the sim. So he honestly is a super nice guy first of all and I mean what he has achieved so far in IndyCar is really impressive. And also the way he did it, he's raced a lot of different things and even went to Japan, moved to the US and lately has been just dominating the series and I'm very happy for him because

I think he's making a great career and it suits him and I think it's perfect.

I think Thiago's question was more shouldn't you think he's a talent that could be in Formula

One? As you said there are so many guys that should have got a shot and yeah. Yeah for sure yeah would he have does he need a deserving yeah yeah for sure.

Okay my question is.

See if I would be in his shoes.

You wouldn't leave there.

No.

Why would you, because it's only like a few select people that, uh, have an opportunity to win or whatever, make good money because they don't really, we all

need to live, we all need to make a bit of money. Right.

And if you are in a dominating position and you know, you you can secure yourself also good life there. Why would you risk throwing all of that away? for a few years of Formula one in well, you're not going to start in the top team anyway Yeah, so yeah, it can also very easily go Go the other way, but then in the other hand, you can also say well, you know, fuck it. I'm i'm doing it and

So why it works out but why why wouldn't one of the top teams in F1, like say Red Bull or McLaren or one of these ones, would look a bit more close. A guy is dominating, we know the championship is not easy, the cars are all practically the same. Obviously there's setup, there's big teams, there's a lot of engineering behind it. I keep asking ourselves why there was no more interest maybe of...

I don't know how much he spoke to other teams, but at the same time, uh, yeah, I guess with some teams you, you have a junior program in our team. Of course, already we have sometimes already put a few people in the car outside of the program. I mean, at one point, if you keep doing that, then what are you doing with the program, right?

It's better to sack off the program. So at one point you need to also stay true to the program. But like you said, yeah, for sure, it's a bit weird. But at the same time, like I said, if I was him, I would not even bother trying. But at the same time, if you really believe in yourself and you're like,

no, no, I will do it, then why not? Forget politics, how many cars should be starting a Formula One race nowadays, if you were to

pick?

I don't know, it's a tough question. If I'm out of Formula One and I want to get a seat, 100 cars.

But realistically, the way car management is with all the tracks and

everything like for the show also.

I think I raced in F3 with 30 cars and smaller cars and everything is already too many. I think 22 is already going to be, but at the end of the day, I think it's also just how professional the team is. You know, you don't nowadays, you don't want any more of these like...

No, no, okay.

Let's say we had all professional teams.

Okay. Well, yeah. Again, it depends a little bit on the space on track,

but like 22, 24 is really the limit, I think. Pushing, yeah. Pushing for 24, yeah.

So that's a lot.

20, 22 for me, yeah. Okay. That's a lot, 2022 for me. I mean, don't get me wrong, I would like to see like 30 cars, but it's not, I mean, with the size of the cars and how big the teams have become nowadays, you can't physically fit it into the paddock or the pit lane or so. Or we reduce the teams to one car each.

I don't think so.

It's crazy to think about that because like in, I think I started a race of 35 cars.

F1?

Yeah, F1.

F1?

No, no, pre-qualifying and then pre-qualifying a bunch of them got knocked out and then that

was...

72.

Oh my God. out and then. 72.

8, 9, 6, we have 36 cars in a 1989 season. We have a 36 car.

Grid?

Going to qualifying. I think in my first race in 92 in South Africa, there were 34 cars.

And then. How many were allowed to race? 26. So then out of the 34, a lot of them got knocked out and then went to qualifying. It was breaking down quite a lot back in the time. Oh yeah, it was completely different.

You race 26 but before the start 5 is already gone.

I mean, maybe a few laps. I mean, yeah, for sure there were a lot more mechanical.

No, it was different.

A lot more mechanical than nowadays. Nowadays very, very seldom you get any mechanical problems. Yeah, good point.

Good point.

No, I mean, I think 22 is already, it's going to be quite busy.

Let's say like that.

Yeah, but then the cars were a lot smaller in those days.

So you could. They're going to get smaller.

So hopefully they're going to go.

Yeah, tiny bit like this.

Tiny bit.

Tiny bit. I mean, in direction it helps.

Coming back to Mexico, Max, how did you, didn't crash the car in the turn one?

Good question. I thought I was going to crash. Especially when you look at the in car.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Opposite lock.

Like I thought I was going to hit the wall. Like I was already like trying to like hit the textural like this, you know, that you can like continue a bit of rallying experience with my dad in the car. You learn, I actually asked the team next time I need a handbrake. So I could turn the car a bit better. But yeah, well, the problem was that, you know, the run to turn one is so long. So you will naturally always create these kinds of issues to turn one.

So I chose to go left and you kept getting squeezed and squeezed and squeezed. But at one point, you know, you're going over 300. You cannot just suddenly brake because then you also cause a crash, right? So you stay, and the point was that I kept moving left to avoid a touch, that at one point when I brake, the plank was on the curb, so I just kept jumping.

I could not brake anymore. Even on the onboard, it looks, you can't really see, but I kept going like that, and of course I had to go straight, and yeah, I went in the grass. The grass, I don't know why, but at altitude it felt even more slippery than normal.

So I was like just, yeah, full lock, accelerating a little bit to try and slip the car in a better angle. And, uh, yeah, it was, uh, I didn't try that grass. Yeah, it was a big one, big moment. But once I crossed the grass, I was like, ah, that was actually not too bad. So did you change your underwear after the race or was it fine?

No, no, no, that was okay. I looked. It was fine, but yeah, it was super slippery. Anyway, in Mexico, when you go offline, it's already super slippery. So then bottoming, little flat spot, offline, into the grass, it was like everything in once, you know, and then it's quite an eventful race for me. What happened in the practice start after FP in Zandvoort?

Yeah, so normally when you arrive to the grid the tires are quite cold, right? This is the first race after the break? Yeah, I normally always put the brake by his back, but as I'm doing the start, the first corner is banged, I don't need to put it back, I was like, oh, I'm doing the start. The first corner is banged. I don't need to put it back. It's gonna be fine.

I'm gonna brake a bit early.

Yeah, then I hit the brakes. I immediately lock, and then you cannot get out of the lock. And then I'm going to travel, and like just jumping. I'm like, oh my God.

I remember I stopped. I was like, oh, you should ask him after. Yeah. What the fuck did it look like after the finish line? Yeah. Yeah, that was a new floor as well.

It was like fantastic.

Oh, amazing. New floor.

Gabi, for you, how was the stressful moment in your season?

The most stressful moment?

Yeah, most stressful moment.

Beating me on the simulator.

Yeah. Well, to be honest, sometimes it's more stressful in the sim, actually. Yeah? The heartbeat goes quite a bit. Sometimes I go to the toilet, I can hear in the headset...

Aargh!

Fuck's sake!

Well, in this season, I think... Look, I think this... I'm not... My emotions they normally don't go like very up and or down because whatever I'm living I'm living, you know I'm not I'm not gonna be too worried and I I honestly have a very good support from the team behind me, you know, I see I see a lot of teams That put pressure on the drivers,

not saying this is right or wrong. But luckily with the team I have, even through the beginning of the season, when I was still finding my way with the car and how to put it in the limit without making mistakes, in a couple of races I was still not quite there. In Qualy, making a couple of things here and there.

I was very disappointed. I feel like that moment I was very upset because I just want to perform the best I can. I knew the speed was there but I was not able to put it together. But the team was very supportive. So that's why I think there was not really a stressful moment because of that. So I would say probably at that

moment at the beginning of the season where I think all the mistakes were happening because I didn't have any experience before jumping in the season basically. I just came straight to F1 with basically no practice. So I was making mistakes in the races that maybe if I had done a bit of practice before, I would have not made them. But then, with time, they were fixed, normal progression, and reviewing, learning, analyzing yourself and listening to more experienced people as well around you, and yeah, got better. I think that is super important, to have a team behind you that fully supports you and

makes you feel good. You know, because I know of course the people that he works with and you feel of course that they fully believe in Gabi, they give him all sort of time, but that can make or break a driver, you know, because if you don't feel that you're already, when you start your first race, you don't feel fully supported. You're like, I need to be perfect from race one. I cannot have a bad race.

That can be very stressful. But as a driver, you always put this in yourself.

It doesn't matter how much support you have, you always win.

Yeah, exactly. But even when you make a mistake in the beginning, you're not super happy, but the team will come and put a hand around you like, ah on, don't worry about it. You're a rookie driver. You need to make mistakes. This can help so much for a driver. I think that's why I think Gabi is in a really good environment.

And the best moment?

I mean, obviously my best result of the season was Budapest. I think I was coming in such scoring points every round and it was getting better and better. I think going to Q3 with very good laps in my view, they were very good moments. I think Budapest race was just amazing. I managed to do a very good start, overtake a couple of cars, put the strategy in a good place and good pace. I think that was a very good moment and the best result of the season for me. So yeah, I would say that.

And again, Mexico I think was a good race. I think we made a lot of overtakes with our pace that we had. Obviously, it's not a P6, it's a P10, but still it was a very solid race. Good tyre management, good callsals, good communication. I think that's what we need to look at, you know, because we're not here to fight for P6.

I want to be what they're fighting at the top. And I feel like Mexico, as a race itself, it was a very complete race as a team. You know, we were communicating very well between me, my engineer, the strategist. Medium soft? Yeah. Yeah. Can I say it? No, because we went to have dinner the night before

Mexico and I came up with the idea in my mind. I wanted to start on the soft, you know, and I was like, I want to start on the soft because you know, softer compound, I want to make some moves in T1. And then

he was like, oh oh don't fucking do that

you're gonna cook the tires in 5 laps

so I was like, alright I'm starting in 5 laps in the morning after, I came my brother was with me there and I wake up the next morning, I was like, I'm starting on the medium

why, what the fuck changed?

I had a dream. And then with the engineers, the same thing. I arrived and I think I go on the medium. The guy looks at me and I'm like, fuck, I prepared three hours of flight to come to

you.

I was like, no, no, but you know, I had a couple of conversations. I had a dream. When I lined up and my engineer was like, everybody around you is on soft.

Just you Gabi.

And I'm like, or we are incredibly smart, or we are incredibly stupid to not understand that the soft was really good.

But it worked out well because at the end of the day, the longest stint had to be then on the worst tire for most really. And we survived in the first stint to be on the worst tire for most really. And we survived in the first stint to be on the worst tire of the two. And then in the second stint, you fly, no, you've good pace, better grip, could make some moves.

Yeah, for me at least, I mean, everyone was good. It was some of the guys in front of me were doing a two stop so they moved out of the way, but it was definitely the faster way of doing the race, I think. Yeah. of doing the race, I think. When we got to the grid, they told me the tyres, I was a bit like, oh. Hopefully you don't change our mind.

We needed to debrief if it was not going well after the race.

Do the tracks in general change a lot from the beginning of the race until the end or is it pretty much the same, just a car that gets a lot lighter and more user-friendly towards a softer tire in the end

of the race.

Yeah, I mean it depends of course also when you start, what time of day. In some tracks you get also a lot of marbles. Austin was a lot of marbles I think. Crazy. Yeah, it was crazy. You know, on the straight, you have to be a bit careful with that going offline in some

places. But yeah, in general, it's like just the fuel effect that makes a big difference. And then yeah, the tyre behaviour at the end of the race, because how you manage your stint is different to the beginning of the race.

They can be quite sensitive to heavier car, the tyres. And it's always nice when you can make it work with the soft compound at the end of the race, because lighter car, the tires. And it's always nice when you can make it work with the soft component of the race because you know lighter car, soft component.

And then you're driving something good underneath you.

Yeah, it's better than hanging it out on a part that is cooling down and at one point

you have very little grip.

Do you think you'll keep this relationship if one day you share the same team in Formula 1?

I think at the end of the day, you always have a healthy kind of competition and you always will want to beat each other, right? But at the end of the day, the personality of the person, whatever you do off track will decide if you can be good friends. And yeah, that I think we have seen already in the past between other teammates have, well, it's not been great, you know what I mean? And with that, they could not be friends anymore or they had some issues. But yeah, I mean, I already said to the team before I even got to FOMO and keep an eye on Gabi.

But yeah, now we're all here and let's just see how it evolves, right? already said to the team before you even got to formal and keep an eye on Gabi. But yeah, now we're all here and let's just see how it evolves, right? I mean, first of all, I don't even know how long I'm going to do myself, you know? I mean, I know that I have a contract until 28, but after that, nothing is agreed or what I did. I don't even know myself. I hope, let's say in general, I just hope for Gabi that,

of course, he gets an opportunity within the next three, four years, of course, to really be competitive in the front and fight for podiums. And then if that's in the same team, I mean, even better, because that means that we are both fighting for the best positions.

Okay.

I truly believe the relationship can be the same. Obviously there is limits in the sense of if we are fighting for a world championship or something like this, he's not going to tell me the strategy of the tire. The only thing, the difference might be a little bit of course, like if you're the same age, it's a bit different, right?

Because then you've...

The same moments of your life.

Same moments of your career, but sometimes if you're a bit the older driver and let's say you've achieved already a lot of great things and then you're a more younger guy, an up and coming guy, I think it does create a little bit of a different dynamic.

Okay.

And you look at me and Nico, for example, we have a very good relationship. I really like to work with him. He's a great guy. We hang out outside of the track as well, you know, in Monaco or wherever you are, wherever he is. And it's just cool, you know. I think we have respect to each other. Obviously, I want to beat him on track because he's my teammate, has the same car as me. He wants to beat me on track, but we have very good respect to each other. And when we are there, we are professional, we talk about what we need from the car, and I think I made it very clear since the beginning of the year, you know, I have a long-term deal with my team and I believe in the project, so it makes no sense on trying to ruin an atmosphere inside the team now, you know, like we need to build,

we are fighting in the back right now, if we start creating tension inside the team when you're in the back, you're never going to push the team forward. If that, I don't think it's

needed, but to have a relationship a bit difficult. I think what Max said as well, being in different places of your career, different ages, that helps a lot as well because there's always going to be one that is more mature, one that is looking at things differently than the other one. I think most of the, let's say the issues that teams have had in the past were drivers that had the sort of similar age or moment in their career and then it's much easier

to have a clash I would say you know I think you know what you're going through you know he seems like a very nice guy but also he knows that he has one two three more seasons you know it's different than you that has another 10 15 20 seasons ahead of you it's it a different moment. But I think it would be a lesson for team bosses to not put two young guys wanting to

kill each other because it's not going to help anybody.

It's not ideal.

And I think if you look at the best partnerships in the past of how to win championships, team and driver.

Like my dad and mental. They were exactly sort of in the same moment.

Yeah, that's not ideal for a team. I think that stress is not always what you want. And you also, I mean, when you have the same age, I think honestly for me, and you know, actually who does that really well in football is Madrid, right? So I mean, I'm a Barcelona fan, but Madrid does a very good job at having a squad,

starting 11, current, amazing, but already making sure that once the older guys are at their end to immediately replace them with a good young talent that can fill the gap, right? So that's, I think, what you need to try and achieve in a way in Formula 1 as well, that

you have one older guy that is at his peak or close to going over the peak, that immediately you have the other guy to step in to make sure that you don't also as a team go backwards, to immediately make sure that the other driver is also there to take over in a sense. This has been always a tough conversation between me and the gray hair over here.

Now you always need to have the two best drivers next to each other.

They will always try to mess with each other. And at the end of the day, even if the team is very successful now, eventually it will break it up. And I think you will see that very soon happening in Formula 1 as well.

I think, and I will agree with you guys in the Formula 1 that exists nowadays because the majority of the cars finished the race. But back in the 80s and 90s when 50% of the cars didn't make it to the end of the race. You need to have a backup plan because you can't have one car running in first and the other car, your teammate running in P10 for example.

It cannot be that big of a difference. But I'm more worried about the internal fight that you create and people will leave. If it's the driver, very important people up top that have to at one point, if it's such a mess between the two drivers, you create, it's a two sided garage, right? Like you have one side and the other side and at one point, even it doesn't matter how successful you are, it will break it up.

It will create problems eventually. Can do a deal with it one year, quite intense, maybe two years, but it's not sustainable

for me personally.

Especially if you're fighting for championships. Yeah, yeah. Of course, if you're not fighting for championships, it's less of a problem. Less, yeah, there's not really high stakes right? At the end of the day you really see the true color of people when you fight for championships. But yeah it is very tough and if I would be a team boss I would never do that risk to

drivers fighting like that. And if both of you guys were team bosses right now or team owners whatever you want to say.

And we had the opportunity to bring back all the greats in Formula One.

We were talking about this. Which would be your two picks?

Two picks of everyone.

Christian Fittipaldi.

Flanjo.

Flanjo is a good friend.

I don't know.

It's not important for Flanjo to learn with this.

No, no, no. Take you out of the equation, take you out of the equation. Like you never raced, you were only team owners, team bosses.

That's it. The thing is, what might sound a bit controversial, right? But if you would have to have them drive the current car, they would struggle. The older, yeah, older generations. It's like I said before, right? In sports, people evolve, sports evolve, become more professional. And that's why I think it's always very important to just leave the greats in their era because they were the best in their era with what they knew, what the world knew, humankind knew. Right?

And that's why I find it always very unfair, you know, when people ask me this, first of all, who do you think is the greatest? For me, it's impossible to answer because every generation or era had their own greatest driver and then maybe you have another era where

yeah like I said it evolves or it's just different. Changes a lot. The car from 40 years ago to now.

The driving style that what you need to go far it's completely different.

No it's like if you watch like a soccer game. It's different nowadays and if you watch it 40 years ago the whole dynamics of a soccer game is completely different.

I mean, the great, like, let's say a great coach in the, when Brazil was winning all

the World Cups, like in the sixties, you know, like, do you think you would be successful

now?

It's impossible to know, first of all, but it's a completely different way of playing also, you know? So it's the same in racing. It's just impossible to, to answer that or give an honest answer. And the people that answer those questions, I understand you are, are, are fans, journalists, team bosses that have never maybe been drivers to understand these differences, you know, and, and we were talking about this

on the car on the way here, you know, it's like, it's, you put my dad 10 years ahead or 10 years back, you put your dad or your uncle 20 years ahead, you know, qualities of drivers every 10, 20, maybe

the last 20 years, no, but like from 1985, 1990 backwards, the fact is they

were the best when they were competing. I think that should say enough, right? Because they were dominating at the time that they needed to dominate. That's all you needed to do. So I mean, you can ask the question, who would you like to see and if it would be interesting to see how they would be working, you know, in their prime, you know, that for sure.

I mean, for example, I think it would be quite cool to see how Michael in his Ferrari days, being there and observe how he was with everyone and is there something to learn, how to be within the team, stuff like that for me. And at the same time, you can argue, would you want to be in the team when Ayrton was fighting with Prost? To see what was inside, yeah. Maybe, probably not. Probably you wouldn't want to be there when they were fighting. in the team when Ayrton was fighting with Prost, you know, like that maybe probably

not or you wouldn't want to be there, you know, when they were fighting, but at the same time, you know, they were winning and dominating as a team also. So you learn and it's I think just very interesting to be a part of.

Oh, yeah.

Interesting.

No answer.

But do you agree with this?

I agree. It's difficult to judge. I think, as Nelsinho said, it is when you are a journalist or a fan that maybe you don't

know what is data. You don't know the small driving techniques we have today that make such a big difference in the car that 30 years ago they didn't know because they didn't have the data to do that, you know. And again, they were the greats when they were there.

What I admire and I always say is for me, I admired, let's say, Senna, for example, because from the people I know that knew him very well and stuff, he was very ahead of his time, for example, with many stuff. I was not there to see that, but this is the type of thing that I admire on people, is when they are able to make that switch of generation. You know, like... of generation. Like I didn't want to put him in as example, but with the same thing, I think he was the first one to start with this sim in the new generation.

And I believe that in 10, 15 years, we're not going to see a single driver in Formula One that doesn't do crazy amount of sim at home. He's already now with all the young drivers that are coming from Go-Karting. They all do SIM, you know, so all the good ones. All the F2 drivers, most of them are in the SIM. Well, even before, like from 12, 13, 14,

they're all buying simulators, they're all starting to do it. And honestly, I think it's great because you already start driving cars a bit of a feel of understanding of what to do in a car before you even have driven it in real life. I remember when I did my first car test, I didn't really do so much on the simulator. So the first every time I was in the car, it was like, whoa, what the hell is this? How are you already in the seating position? I was like, what? I cannot see anything. And then your brake inputs and

everything, it's very different. And I think with the younger generation again now, like, they are, yeah, again ahead with

that. I remember exactly the first time I drove a car in Brasilia and I went into the wall with my dad's car in turn one, two, three in Brasilia. The long ride. Yeah. Because in the go-karts, you kind of, you used hardly use the brake, you know, you

kind of throw it and then I did the same thing with the car and it just kept sliding.

Yeah, four wheels, boom.

But that's what I find nice, you know, that people that are able to make that switch in generations and in 15 years, 20 years, there will be someone that is able to make the next one, the next one. The next one. And the next one, I don't know, maybe there will not be, but that's, I think it's nice because everyone is such in a high level where we are right now. And I think when you are able to be the leader of making such a big change... Making, being the pioneer, being a pionero, right? I hear like Senna, you know, the technique he had on the driving and stuff like this.

He was always blipping the throttle.

That's why they were always, they were the greats in their era. That's simple, right?

Facts that, you know, they dominated in the time that they had to dominate. Exactly.

But talking nowadays, Max, have you ever woken up in the morning, looked in the mirror and thought, I'm the best four-mile driver right now?

Every morning.

I am not the guy that stands in front of the mirror and I'm like, look at myself. But yeah, that is the point. You have to believe that you are the best one. Otherwise, at least that's how I grew up. You have to believe that you can beat anyone. And that's how Gabi is as well. He wakes up and he needs to believe,

I am the best one out there and I can beat anyone. Now, of course, when I arrived to Formula One, I said, I'm the best one, but I also know that I need to learn. I need to have more experience to be able to understand the race weekend better to really put everything together and be consistent, right? People can have great weekends, peak, but there are a lot of drivers that are like this

a bit. And I think if you want to win a championship or fight for a championship, you need to be consistently good. You have weekends where you're naturally a bit better or worse, but the worst, like a bad weekend cannot be a shocker, you know? And that's what I think over my years always tried to work on, you know, not to have a really shocking weekend or like that you're completely out.

And yeah, naturally as a driver, you need to believe that you are the best.

Yeah. Amazing. Is your grandfather still with us?

No, no.

Because I remember him taking care of your dad's cart. Like in the world championship, I remember very well him pushing the cart and he was

always with red shorts, no t-shirt.

Yeah, back in the pictures of like back in the day, it was always quite funny to look back at also the hairstyles and everything.

It was really cool.

My dad also had to laugh a lot about it.

But yeah, I mean, also from that side, like with my dad, right, in his go-karting years, he learned so much. I mean, we talked about it on the way here with like understanding the mechanical side of things, like the tuning. When I was racing in go-karting,

I raced for the factory of CRG, but we would take the go-karts back home. We would prepare it ourselves. And my dad was tuning the engines as well and especially in my final year in go-karting we definitely did it like that and it was in the shifter category and yeah we basically we won everything but that's very special because you do it all together right like my dad preparing the

engine taking everything home in our workshop making sure that you know you prepare it in the best way possible and then also when you win these races together is something that, yeah, it's almost like, like for my dad was like a second career, you know, because he wanted me to be better than him first of all, in go-karting, but then also of course in, in cars. And yeah, that's what we worked on from when I was four all the way till yeah, 17, 18. Direct drives or shifters? Shifter.

And you?

What I prefer?

Yeah. I did very little on KZ, but if I need to pick a kart to drive, I pick KZ. You know, we're going to be banging wheels at the end of the year.

I wouldn't.

Grange.

I mean, I'm going to be...

Lots of horsepower. I'm going to be fucking... Keep your eyes there. I wouldn't go. Granger. I mean, I'm gonna be. Lots of horsepower. I'm gonna be fucking, keep me arrested.

Well, I was thinking about that.

It's fine. Yeah. Yeah.

I always advise everyone before they go to cars, at least do your final year in go-karting and shifter, because you learn how to use the gears in the dry, in the wet, in the start, in lap one, how to use the gear to go one down or whatever. When you're defending, attacking, it's very different. Brake bias, you can already adjust it. Not many people listen, but I do think it's very, for me at least, it was super helpful

because then when you go into cars, you know exactly how to use the gears or play with the gears because when you're high RPM, low RPM, the go-kart reacts different. It's the same in the car, right? The higher RPM, lower RPM, you get a whole different balance of the car. And that's why I think doing at least one year or at least a few races, you know,

to understand what's going on. Because most of the kids, they go to cars and they're like, spamming the gears, not really understanding how to use it also for balance or rotation, stuff like that? My initial plan actually was never to do Formula 4, but to do a year in KZ and then move to I think F3, FIA was a big step from go-karts straight away. But who was always pushing a lot for this was Tinini, that was the boss of CRG.

He always told me that F4 was bullshit.

I agree. No, F4 and F3 now I think is a very big step because the car also got very fast. But I think if you do one year shifter, you can skip F4, because I think it's a bad car. And you go to the... Yeah, Breca.

Breca, that's already fast enough to have a good understanding of a race car.

Because for me F4 is too basic of a race car.

I fully agree, but at the same time, I need to... Because we have an F4 series in Brazil.

Promotion, one second, promotion.

No, but what I think, and if you have a career already, you start go-karting in Europe, I don't think you should do F4. But the level of the kids that race in Brazil in go-karts and never go to Europe, it's quite a big disadvantage. No, of course, of course. So I believe it's for the kids that don't go to Europe before stepping in a single-seater,

it's important that they do at least one year of F4, just because they are not in the level of the European guys that did go-karting in the best level ever. For sure. But if you have the level already, and if you have done already go-kart your entire career, I wouldn't do F4 in Europe, because it's a very basic car. And it's for, you know, it's basically a bit of a step back, I would say, because you drive such a different way. Especially when you're driving KZ in the top level. Exactly. So I mean, I did only two races. It was the only one race that was the world championship. You know, I was quick, but I didn't know how to start.

So I was stalling everything.

P10 after the start.

Yeah, no, P10.

I was last. I was starting P8, but you know, my first race ever, boom, last. I was like, fuck think you're right. If you don't do the European go-karting scene and... But even in not only in Brazil, but in any other, you know, you need to do the World Championship in karting, European Championship, WSK, all these championships, because they prepare you to go to Freca if you want to go straight away in a better way. But if you try to go from Brazil karting to spend. So you do one season that you are terrible, you are already out of the loop there.

So, yeah, that's my view of it. So if I could change something in my career, everything worked very well for me, but would not do that year in F4.

So if you're from South America, five seasons of Brazil in F4, and then six.

Yeah, six, just to guarantee.

Full program. Yeah.

We are at the final moments of our show with Max and Gabriel Bortoletto. Like the video, subscribe to our channel, like the video. And I have a gift to you guys.

We have a gift. A gift.

A gift. Adhemar Cabral. Come in, ladies. Come on. Oh have a gift a gift. All right, if I they mark about come in ladies, come on. Oh

Oh my god one careful with the camera. Oh, they got a camera. I'm this way come this way

Look at that

And then whoa

Oh my god Wait, let's put it... Almost. It's so good.

This is for Max and... Another one for Gabi.

You have the hard tires, you see?

Why do I have the hard tires? You need to go for a long stint.

Here's for you.

Amazing.

Incredible. He's an artist. He's not the smartest guy, but he's an artist.

Oh my God.

It's fantastic.

Well, thank you.

That's really beautiful.

Obrigado.

Nice one.

What material?

You hit Shrek or?

Carbon.

Carbon fiber.

It's not carbon fiber?

It's so carbon fiber? Well, you already have one in your house or two?

Two.

I have one, one the normal livery and then one the golden one.

The golden one, yeah.

It was all made by this guy over here.

No, it's beautiful. It's really cool.

So you just put it in your hand luggage and you can take it. It's small, you know, it fits anywhere.

Yeah.

Yeah, do you think it fits in the plane?

It depends. Is Kelly going?

Yeah, no, it doesn't actually fit.

Well, the plane is full, actually. We fly back like this.

Oh, it's amazing, guys.

Thank you.

Thanks for coming.

Thanks for coming.

Max, Gabi. Thank you.

Best luck in the season.

Best luck. We're hoping it's going to rain a lot.

If it doesn't rain, we'll make sure we have a lot of hoses around the track. You personally going to stand there?

Yeah.

I'm going to drink a lot tonight.

He's ready for the weekend.

I enjoy.

Good stuff.

Okay, Max, thank you.

Thank you for coming.

It's a big pleasure for us. You're welcome. Guys, thank you very much for coming.

It was really cool.

And talking about liveries, the nicest livery you ever had is the Japan car.

I agree.

Yeah, the white. The nicest liver you ever had is the Japan car. I agree. Yeah.

The white, yeah. Bit tougher cleaning, but it looks amazing.

Amazing.

Amazing.

Really cool.

You don't like Chirac car?

Sorry?

If I don't like what?

Chirac car?

I don't understand.

The Hulk car?

Yeah, my car.

Yeah, incredible Hulk.

Yeah. They call it Hulk actually.

Exactly. Yeah. E.T. E.T.?

You definitely know.

E.T.?

Yeah. E.T.?

I know E.T.

You were not born when E.T. came out.

What do you mean?

The movie.

No.

The movie.

He doesn't even know the movie.

Oh, he doesn't know the movie.

The one that they go on the bike. I got the Brazilian version, you know?

How do you say it in Portuguese?

Logozinho?

Thanks for coming kids, because they're kids, and we'll see you guys on the track.

Yeah, all the best this weekend and for the end of the season.

We're going to see you in our suite at Pedal Club, I think. Right Enzo?

Yes or no? Maybe? Yes?

He's still negotiating the prize. I think it's a yes. So the questions there are going to be a bit harder.

So.

You're allowed to kick people in the balls there.

First target, second target.

He doesn't have it anymore.

He's frying you today.

Today?

Every week.

Ok.

Good stuff.

Turma, valeu demais, thank you guys. It was a big pleasure. Pelas Pistas volta next week with more here. Thank you so much! What a show, huh? What a show, huh?

See you later! ♪♪