Sarah J Maas: The Wait Is Over

What is up, daddy gang? It is your founding father, Alex Cooper with Call Her Daddy. Sarah J Maas, welcome to Call Her Daddy.

Oh, thank you. So excited to be here.

This is like, I have never had more people asking me, okay, so like, if I buy my own plane ticket, could I just fly in and like sit in the corner and just like maybe meet her?

And I'm like, stop it guys, no, never had more people.

Same, same with you, my friends who like don't give a shit like what I do for a living, suddenly they hear I'm coming here and they're like, oh, like I could be your assistant for the day. And like, have I told you how much I love you? And I'm like, I wish you guys could come, but at the same time, no.

No.

We're like merging our two worlds.

You've made me cool to my friends who usually only see me in my like ugly casual clothes. That's our dress code, ugly casual.

I am honored that you're here. I also wanna give everyone watching the, I just wanna say, spoilers could happen in this episode if you haven't read all of the series. So I would just beware, don't come for me on social media if we talk about things that you're like,

what do you mean? Like, just prepare yourself.

You guys have had plenty of time to read. Plenty of time.

Very true. Okay, you are the best selling author of Throne of Glass, Crescent City, and the ACOTAR series. You've broken publishing records. You have sold over 75 million copies of your books. And I am such a huge fan.

And I'm so excited to sit down with you today.

Thank you.

Welcome to Los Angeles.

Thank you.

What are you in LA for?

I'm only here to be with you. Welcome to Los Angeles. Thank you. What are you in LA for? I'm only here to be with you. You're the only reason that I would actually come to Los Angeles.

Do you come here often? You're like, no. No.

We don't like LA. Well, you know, we used to live here. So of course, I don't like I like LA. But I mean. You're just here for this. I'm honored. Just for you, Alex. I am honored, Sarah. Only for you would I drag myself across the continent to Los Angeles.

Thank you, thank you. Okay, if you are on a plane, can you ever work on a draft or it's like way too risky?

I'm on deadline right now, actually, working on something. But I had to work, I had to work. And then the worst thing was, is that like my husband, who was supposed to be helping with the kids, just takes a nap.

So you're writing and you're holding children.

And the kids are like, mommy, can you get me a new sparkling water? Like, mommy, my iPad turned off. And Josh is just there snoring, the dog's sleeping next to him. And I'm like, what is this? I was about to throw a bucket of water on him. You're like, this is why my fans are mad at me, guys. Okay, I need to lock in and focus. I was like, there is like, we need to like get this going. There's no time for naps, for spouse naps anymore.

I feel like you're also known for your writing playlists. What have you been currently listening to for inspiration?

Weirdly, like weirdly enough, like I heard the soundtrack to that, the Rob Pattinson, like the Batman thing. And like, there was like certain like pieces in that that just like spoke to me. And like, yeah, so that was like,

kind of like the current thing. But then like, I mean, it's not really like inspiration, but like K-pop, Demon Hunters, I'm still playing that nonstop in my house. And like, even my seven year old son has been like, okay, like we're kind of over that. And I'm like, we are never over this movie. We are never over the soundtrack.

That's when you know you've lost it where your kids are like, can we stop mom? And you're like, no.

I know, I'm like pre-gaming in the shower, like listening to the vinyl record. Oh, you're in it, Sarah. Yeah, and I play it. When my kids are at school, I put it on and I play it on repeat to the point where my housekeeper thinks I'm having like a mental breakdown.

Yeah. And the kids aren't there, so you really know you're in love.

Look, it's my jam.

Okay, can you tell us, like,

what is your ideal writing setup? I'm not like a fancy writer. Like I don't write publicly. Like I don't wanna be in a cafe. Cause like I, I like get very into my stuff. So like I'll be crying. Like to feel what my characters feel.

Like I have to like emotionally connect with them. So if it's like a devastating scene or just like a very emotional scene, like I will be sobbing. Oh my God. Yeah, like my husband has like walked in to like my bedroom

where I actually write in my bedroom and he's like seen me just like weeping and he just like quietly closes the door. He's like, yeah, we're not.

Like a normal husband would be like, babe, are you okay? And he's like, got it.

We're on like a big chapter. like classical music movie scores and I'm weeping, sobbing, typing as fast as I can. And he's like, okay, yeah, yeah.

So the bedroom.

Yeah, so I just have a desk in my bedroom. I don't know, they say don't work where you sleep, but I don't know, it's a cozy, happy space for me. When I'm in an office, I'm just kind of like, I don't know, like to have my own little tiny cozy space. And I keep a very tidy desk,

but it's covered with crystals and ridiculous things. Like La Boo Boo. I have a La Boo Boo sitting in a little sun chair with sunglasses on.

It's ridiculous.

It's good vibes. It is good. Things that bring me joy. That's what I put on my desk. It is, it is good. I like, I only, things that bring me joy. That's what I put on my desk when I keep it very tidy. But then of course I have like three coasters on my desk for like one for water, one for like a latte

and one for a Diet Coke. And they always need to be like constantly filled. That's the rotation. And then like space for Cheetos, to eat when you, right? You're like. I know, are you like a puffy or a crunchy? I'm the flaming hot. I've never had one.

I've never had one, I'm scared.

I'm scary that I'm like, like my husband's always like, why? And I'm like, I like it to burn.

Do you like spicy things in general?

Yeah, I do.

Okay, I've never had one, now I kind of want to try one. You need to try one and you need to tell me what it was like. But like, is it like... It's a little painful, but like I...

You're not selling this.

But it's like good.

Like I like the burn. Like it keeps... I, when I'm editing my show, I'm like eating them and I love the little thin ones and I just like kind of take it and I'm editing. It's a vibe. Like when, if you do go out in public and you do ever see fans, like what is the most common thing that people ask you

when they run into you?

People usually don't like ask me things. It's more like they just wanna express like what the books have meant to them. So usually that makes me cry. But I'm also like such a nerd where like if I see someone in public reading my books,

like I go up and say hi to them. Cause like, I want to say thank you to them. Cause like all these beautiful blessings I have in my life, the fact that I can like do this for a living is because of people reading. So like, how can I not at least just like go up

and be like, I just want to say like, thank you. But then like when I do that, I think they don't believe me initially, because again, normal Sarah covered in Cheeto dust. Like I look like unwell on a daily basis. So they're like, I don't think that's actually her. And then I'm like, no, it's me. Like, look, I've got the tattoos.

You're like a psycho being like,

it is me. Guys, thanks for reading my book, so like, who is this?

And they Google you, and I'll like, if I see someone reading, like especially the Agatar books and like, I'll interrupt them. I'm like, what, like, what part are you reading right now? Like, and is that like, is that like your mom, like walking in on you? Like when you're like watching porn or something. Where I'm like, is that like a weird thing?

No one's ever told me that. Like I've- I've had- Would it be weird for you if I was- It would make it 10 times better. If it was like a super smutty-

Wouldn't care, cause you wrote it. It makes me feel- I know, but like, it wouldn't like be like weird for like- No, I feel like I've walked into moments where someone was listening to one of my episodes that was like a bonding moment and it's between the girlies. Yes, yes.

Okay, there are obviously so many celebrities who absolutely love you and your books. Which celebrity fan has left you the most starstruck?

I mean, I respect like so many of these like women, especially so like, I don't know, like Margot Robbie's, like become, she's become, like Margot Robbie's like become, she's become, Margot's become like one of my friends and like, I love, so like meeting her, I just like, you know, she was coming off the heels of like Barbie when we first met and I just like, it was amazing when she and I like first met up,

like we were at like a coffee shop in New York and it was just, it was really, really moving and inspiring to see how many young women came up to her, like not for a picture, not for anything, just to say thank you for Barbie and what that meant to me. And like, I loved, and like, that's kind of like the fan interactions that I have are usually like people saying things like that.

And so like, it was really cool to like, just say, I thought it was like the impact that Margot has had on like, like she's just, I love her. When I like describe her to so smart. And like, it's an overwhelming combination. But she's a marvelous person.

Speaking of Margot, people are obviously dying to know what is going on with this potential ACOTAR TV series. Can you give us any update of like, what do you think is happening?

So I have the rights back to everything now and getting the rights back to all my things has been a big part of my journey in recent years that maybe at some point soon I will talk more about. But right now my focus is on books and it's been a little while

since you guys have had something. So I'm focusing on that, but I look at any TV movie adaptation as kind of like another facet of like the worlds that I've created. And it's something that I want to be in charge of.

Like I want to be figuring out, like I wanna be learning everything that I can. I'm like a type A like control freak a little bit, but like I wanna know like everything about how it gets made, not because of that control,

but just because I love movies, I love TV. I wanna be a part of that, and I wanna see everything adapted the way I envision it, and the way I know fans want it. And I don't ever wanna hear, oh, we need to change this to appeal to like XYZ demographic.

I'm like, no, that's not how you make art. That's not how I create my stories. So like when I do it, like it's gonna be like me and I will like dedicate like everything that I have to like making it right. But like, it will be like, I will be in there like,

you know, looking at like all the design, but also like, what does it sound like? Cause music plays such a big part. Like, so like, I'm not just gonna, like the music is gonna have to be like a huge project.

You'll have to have understandably your hands on every single part of it because it's in your brain. Like you created this world. So to give it over to anyone else would be.

No, I view it as like my legacy in a way where I'm like, I put my books out into the world. That's like one way that the fans are like interacting and seeing these characters, but like the physical version of that, like needs to be aligned. It can't just be like someone's take on that.

I'm like, no, this is.

Yeah, it's yours. Have you seen the fans who have created like the AI world of like the spring court and like the spring court. And like, it's- No, I have not. I need to show you after. Not, I- Is it cool? It is so incredible.

And I'll be on TikTok watching and I'm like, honestly, they made Rhysand look like, I'm like, how are you gonna actually find

a normal human being that looks like this? I know, I know. I sometimes, like, that's part of my problem. It's just like, I don't, yeah. And that's, I'm not gonna like settle for someone cause I'm like being pushed. I'm like, I need to find the perfect person and take however long it takes to find them.

I have yet to find my perfect Reese. I don't really have like anyone. I think that's the thing, I have not found anyone. So I'm like, I can't like be forced to like pick someone. It's gonna happen when it's gonna happen. It needs to be organic. It needs to be like something that comes from me. Yes. And it's like something that I'm proud of, you know.

Okay, let's go back because to anyone who isn't familiar with your full story. So your relationship with writing kind of started as a teenager. But there was a moment in seventh grade where you stopped reading because it wasn't cool anymore. What was it that made you feel that way? moment in seventh grade where you stopped reading because it wasn't cool anymore, what was it that made you feel that way?

Okay, first of all, we read the most boring fucking books. That like, and I was a big reader. Like I loved reading as a kid. I loved fairy tales. I like I loved all of that. Like I like all the babysitters club, the boxcar children, but we weren't reading that in school. And like, yes, we were exposed to like great writing, but it was so boring for me to be like quite honest, like just at that age that like, I was like, I'm done.

I'm done with it.

And what were you like in middle school?

I was cool. I was a cool, I like, I've like been through eras of my life. I'm turning 40 very soon and I'm having a big girls weekend or it's actually more like a week. I got a week out of everyone in the Bahamas

and the theme is Sarah's eras.

Okay, can you take us through those eras?

So this is because there have been so many versions of me. So middle school, Sarah was like all into like nails, makeup, like Backstreet Boys versus NSYNC versus Spice Girls. I was Spice Girls all the way, always.

Obviously, obviously.

But then I kind of had like this secret life in middle school where like every day I would like run home from school. Like I would chat with my friends and then like bolt down the streets of New York City to get home in time to watch Sailor Moon on like Cartoon Network every afternoon. Oh my God.

And so like Popular Girl was a like anime freak, like obsessed with like Sailor Moon, like all this anime. And then like around seventh grade, I also got into reading fantasy. I figured out, okay, there are books that I do like to read that are fairy tales, but for grownups in a way. So fantasy became a whole thing.

So I was hanging out with my friends, going to the bar and bought mitzvahs, dirty dancing on the floor, and then going home and taping episodes of Sailor Moon on my VHS recorder.

So it all kind of started in middle school where you were like, interesting. I don't like the books in school, but I like these books that I found in this like fantasy

world and you started to kind of have an appetite for it. Yes, and then like around the same time, I realized like, I didn't just wanna read it, I wanted to write that kind of thing and come up with my own adventures.

Well, that's what's so crazy is when I was researching, I'm like, you started writing Throne of Glass at 16 years old.

Okay, so when I started writing Throne of Glass, I was in my emo Lord of the Rings phase, Sarah.

Legolas.

I still have my cardboard cutout of Legolas. And like Josh is weirdly threatened by him. Like he doesn't like to see him. Cause like there's all these like stains around Legolas, Legolas' mouth from like where I used to like make out with him.

Like, like, like.

Sarah, this is, I can't.

It's the worst and the best thing. Cause I didn't go on a single date in high school. Legolas was my boyfriend. My seven-year-old, I told my seven-year-old son that once when he was younger and he literally believes me to the point where we were watching the Lord of the Rings once.

And he's like, hey mom, look, it's your boyfriend.

You're like, yeah, that is.

Yeah, and I was like, I was like, can you believe I left him for daddy? So sad. And he's like, oh, mom. To the point where like even now, like again, I don't really get starstruck. But like even now, if I saw Orlando Bloom, I would piss my pants, shit my pants, vomit on myself, like ovulate, like everything would happen all at once. I wouldn't, I would cry.

I don't know. Every bodily fluid would just come spraying out of me. I would not be okay.

Okay, but this all makes sense though, Sarah, because I was so curious. I'm like 16 years old, you start writing Throne of Glass and I read, I know that you kind of trashed it eventually and rewrote the whole thing, but still to be 16 years old and have the wherewithal to create such a large, incredible world in your head

and be able to pen to paper, that is really incredible.

Well, so middle school, Sarah was cool, had a lot of friends. I went to a different high school where I had to start all over again. And high school, Sarah didn't have many friends and was not very happy, hence the emo, Sarah.

I mean, full on studded belt, the plastic bands. And I was that kid that had my headphones on in the hall of school, probably very, just feeling like a fish out of water there because I went to a very posh Upper East Side high school and I was not like a lot of the other kids.

And so with my books and stuff, like they, I knew I wanted to write, I got like the idea for Throne of Glass and I wanted to write that as an actual story, but then the timing of it was like just perfect. Where like, I was in a place in my life

where like I just needed like an escape from school and life sometimes and closing my door to my bedroom and turning on my, it was one of those square iMac computers. I used floppy disks for the first few drafts

of Throne of Glass. But that was an escape for me. It was like, if things weren't going well at school or at home, or just in general.

But it's so beautiful too to hear you say that this was such a passion of yours. And then obviously you were able to turn that passion into your livelihood and your purpose. And then at 26, you finally publish and come out with Throne of Glass almost 10 years after you came up with the idea,

which I think like, it's like a really hard industry to get into, obviously, anything in publishing, it's like, it's close to impossible sometimes to get your first book published. Did any of your family or friends try to sway you and be like, Sarah, I don't know if this is

the easiest path to go down for a career. Yeah, I got into a number of fights with my parents who, I say this quite lovingly, but my parents are like New York lawyers. My mom was a judge. Like they're intellectual, again, lovingly, but my parents are like New York lawyers. My mom was a judge. Like they're intellectual, again lovingly, snobs.

They read the New York Times front to back every day. But like back, and my dad still insists on reading a physical newspaper. So my parents are- So you're different from your parents. So I am very different.

Whereas like, I'm like, page six, baby.

Like, tell me all the hot gas.

Like I need to know everything.

And so like my parents are like,

oh, did you read this analysis of so-and-so? I'm like, no, but did you see what she was wearing last night? And they're like, what is this? But so I was always like this changeling alien child who was like into the fantasy stuff.

And my parents were great in that they always gave me an unlimited budget, like four books. They gave me the space to write. Like, you know, they let me just go lock myself in my room for hours and work. But like, once like college was kind of like wrapping up, like, they're like, so what are you gonna do?

And I'm like, I'm gonna be a writer. And they're like, well, most people, one, can't get a book deal. And my parents had friends who were either lawyers in the literary world or literary agents. And they were like, it's impossible. You're not gonna get it.

And fantasy wasn't even like, fantasy comes in cycles where sometimes it's huge and then it quiets down. So we were in a dystopia phase. It was like the Hunger Games was kind of starting to become insane around then.

So my parents were like, you're publishing this, like, you want to publish this epic fantasy thing, like, and who's paying for this? Where are you? And you want to go move out with your boyfriend to Los Angeles, and get a car and like, all like you need to so I actually considered like, doing like an MFA thing

just to like, buy myself more time. But I did like, I went to one like interview with like a director of an MFA program. And when she heard that I write fantasy, she literally went like that, like an actual like sound.

And you were like, bye.

I was like, we're done here. I was like, I'll sign a copy of my book for you one day. And I just, I walked out and I was like, I'm not doing that. I don't need anybody to teach me what I've taught myself. Like I was a creative writing major in college,

but like it was a very fun major to have, but it was useless for me because a lot of the classes were all the classes were geared towards writing short stories, poetry. And so like senior thesis time came around and I was like, I wanna write a book, like and I also like want you to spend some time

in our like seminar talking about like how do you get published? Like how do you get an agent? How do you get published? And like it was like,

It wasn't even a contest.

It was like I was the first person who would ever ask that. And I was like, I don't have to take poetry because I would never write a word of poetry in my life. I was like, I can swear to you here and now I'm writing fantasy books. I was like in the office, like 21 years old. I was like, I am writing fantasy books

and I will never fucking write a poem. So exempt me from this class. And he was like, no, you have to take it. You have to take it. And like, I'm terrible. It's like a mathematical component to poetry, like the meter and the rhythm and all that stuff that like Josh had to help.

Josh was a math major and he had to help me with my homework where you'd like diagram out. And I was like, I don't understand.

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drops on March 7, available in Target stores and on target.com. We need to talk about these three series. So when I was talking to my friends about it, I think something that is... quite literally the most mind-blowing thing

that you have been able to do, and a lot of people are so perplexed by how you've done it, is... all of your series converge...

Mm-hmm.

-...in some way or another. -...Mm-hmm. But that must take years of planning. So can you try to explain to me how you have been able to have the foresight that all three of these giant series somehow overlap?

I mean, I don't actually know how I have the brain capacity for this because like on a daily basis, I'm like barely functioning. But I don't, I mean, like, because I started writing so young, I was able to like figure out these worlds,

these characters, and when I was trying to get published initially, like I had a lot of downtime, like waiting for like agents to respond, publishers to respond, and like writing's the thing that I love the most. So like I was always writing writing. So during that waiting time

when I was trying to get Throne of Glass published, Akatar came out of me. The first two books of Akatar poured out of me in 2008, 2009, around then, in a two-month span. The first book is very similar to what came out of me. I wound up rewriting Mist and Fury. The ultimate direction of it was of course the same.

But I've been, and then Crescent City was a passion project for many years that I would write, kind of to, this sounds cuckoo crazy, but I would reach the end of a day having edited Thrown in a Glass or ACOTAR. And I just was done with those worlds

and I wanted to go like, play, and like, at the time, like, there was not as much cursing in like, my earlier books, so I was like, I just wanna write like, fucking shit and damn it all the time, like, and like, and so Crescent City just started as something

I did not have any intention of publishing it, and it was just on the side, I was like, oh, and like, so I had all this time very early on in my career, even before my career really took off to like have a vision of what I wanted to do. Do you have like a map in your house

to like be like, okay, this world? No. It's all,

all in my head. I mean, like I have notebooks where I write things down, but like the overarching like vision of it is all. I wish I could live in your head for a day.

That is crazy.

All you would hear is just Cheetos and Diet Coke on repeat.

And all these worlds bouncing back and forth.

Yeah, no, I mean, it's very strange to have like all of that in your head. Cause like I, and it's almost like a separate thing where like I have like two kids now. So like on a daily basis, I'm like, okay, like, what am I making them for dinner? That's not like boxed mac and cheese. And then like I like switch between these modes where suddenly like I'll be able to put that away when they're at school.

And then like the world's expand again, and I'm living in them. It's like a muscle you have to flex when you sit back down. Yeah. But then also like I sometimes sometimes go back, especially with the music that's inspired some of the scenes in the books, and I will listen to the music that inspired those scenes and relive those scenes. And sometimes I just cry,

and I don't even read what's in there. I just relive that moment of clarity where I saw it. And so sometimes in reflecting and going back, I'm able to think, that moment really struck me and like stood out to me,

like, how can we pull that through in the future? And then like, but then sometimes I'm thinking like books ahead where like, I'll write like one little line and be like, like this will come back. And like, but then sometimes things line up too

in like a really like cosmic psychic way where, I mean, again, I have crystals all over my desk, so I'm like, am I channeling something that's happening in another universe and I'm just writing it down because it all lines up.

Perfectly.

Yes, sometimes there was something recently where it lined up, I had not planned it, but it was my subconscious or some like human wide psychic thing. Like I had tapped into it. It was like, you know, slow pitch over the plate for me to still like, it was there.

It was there. And I just, and I jumped out of my seat and like shut my computer. And I was like, no, like we're done here. We're done. This is like too perfect.

Like this is too perfect, this is planned. I was like, this came from not me. And I don't say that from an egotist, I just literally am like,

it worked out almost to a supernatural level. This makes me so happy as a fan, because I'm like, I was wondering, I'm like, how does this all go down? But now I want to talk about some of your female characters because I genuinely believe in the past, I do think that fantasy,

and I think everyone knows this, like fantasy and that world was more dominated by male authors, obviously. And then you came into the game, and I think people really gravitate towards your work because of these really strong, independent, complex women that you are creating in these worlds.

One of your most beloved female characters in Throne of Glass is Aelyn. What did you want to communicate through her evolution?

I don't... Aelyn came out... of me. Just, and like, there was no planned evolution. Aelyn, in some ways, her journey mirrored so much of me growing up, growing into like I poured a lot like she's not me in any way, but like there was a journey like a mirror journey there.

And a lot of my books are like and what my characters go through is in some ways like a mirror to things I've been going through. But like, Aelyn from the start just came out of me fully formed, kind of like Athena springing from Zeus's head, like that. And she just was there. And like, I almost just let her lead the way.

And like my life life like paralleled it where I could understand the, it sounds like I had no control over her, but I really didn't. And I let her lead me where she needed to go, but also was able to like connect with her.

Like, I don't know, like there were just like moments in my life where I can like look back at those scenes in front of glass and remember like what it was that inspired that scene. And not play by play events, but just a feeling. In the Assassin's Blade novellas,

there's one of the later ones, she's out all night partying and just watches the sunrise and it's out. And I was like, that was me in college, staying out with my friends, having an amazing time at a party.

And just that feeling of like you're young and everything's beautiful and like you are immortal and like, isn't it amazing to be alive and like here? Like that went into that. And so like those were the things, I mean, I was able to connect with her in those moments,

like, and so I don't know, like, and then like her rage and her, and her anger. I'm like, I never got to see women being angry and bitchy the way I often felt. I always felt like everyone had to be sweet and nice. And I was not those things. I was not any of those things.

I was always kind when I tried to be to people, but I had strong feelings about things. I could fly off the handle at something. And I wanted to write about a woman that didn't have to be appealing to anyone, and that I did not give a shit if anyone reading it liked her. Like, this was her.

Sorry. Like, that was who she was. And take it or leave it. Better. And I wanted to let her make bad choices and learn from those choices and grow

in the same way that, like, I also wanted her to have, like, different romantic relationships. Like, I don't know, like, any of my— anyone that, like, has just been, like, I met this one guy and, like, we're in love and now we're getting married and that's it.

Like, no. Like I wanted her to grow with that and take things away from those relationships. And I don't know, she just like, as I was learning all of that stuff growing up and like, you know, like she was too. Like, so there was just a natural mirror.

She was one of the first characters you ever wrote. So it's like to know that there was a mirror there, it makes sense. And I think it's beautiful that you were like, I literally don't care if anyone likes her or doesn't. This is who she is, take her or leave her.

Yeah. I mean, that was the same, like Manon in Throne of Glass, that was an even more extreme version of it. I was like, she's just gonna go with her nails and just like-

She's gonna do her thing. Yeah. who can't kind of be placed in a definable category, which I love, as a woman yourself in this industry, what box have you felt like people have tried to put you in?

Oh.

You're like, oh, sweetie, how much time do we have?

I feel like I should have a sedative before I like completely explode. I just think in general, when a lot of people hear that I write romantic fantasy, you know, like as much as I love my like steamy, sexy, hot scenes, like this dismissal now of like smut,

where I'm like, yeah, I write smut, like I love it, but like that's not what like my fans come up to me to talk about.

Like when they wanna come thank me, like it's like, yes, that's not what my fans come up to me to talk about.

When they wanna come thank me, it's like, yes, we giggle and laugh about the hot scenes, whatever, but they tell me how they left their abusive husband after they read A Court of Mist and Fury. And we cry over that. And so putting me into this box

of she just writes really sexy stuff, I'm like, no, I love writing that stuff. I'll always be proud of it. Like, I mean, granted, like I was like copy editing a scene in Silver Flames once where it was like when Nesta blows Cassian at like the dinner table and my dad was visiting and I was like,

I had like the printed out pages and my dad was like, what are you working on there? And I was like, oh my God, I was like, nothing, we're done. I'm not editing this scene anymore. It was the worst fucking thing. I'm like, dad, please don't read this. No, and like, he insists on it.

I'm like, should I rip out pages for you? But then like the sex, but that's the thing where I'm like, the sex sometimes is tied to the plot. Like Silver Flames, for example, like N sex and like bodily fluids are flying everywhere, but it is like intensely tied to their own emotional journeys and their own journey as a couple. And so like this dismissal of it,

like it's just like smut, like whatever. I'm like, it's fun, I designed it to be entertaining, but it's also moving. And like, I write like what I consider to be like cool shit that like means something to me.

I love that you just clarified that too, because I do believe it is such a double standard, obviously with women, that like, if you at all tap into sexuality or sex in any realm, everything else that you also are contributing in that category is completely dismissed

because people are like, oh, you're just writing like sex shit. And you're like, wait, no, that's like, what? And so it's so frustrating, but I do believe in a gorgeous way, like if people took the time,

that's also just a testament to people sometimes don't give a shit and they want to misunderstand you. If you take the time to understand these female characters that you're writing, yes, they have been so liberating for so many women. They have helped so many people. And it's been an escape for a lot of women,

which you've done an incredible job with.

Oh yeah, yeah. And I just, I mean, I think of it as, like when I wanna reread books, like I'm not going to like the depressing, boring shit. Like I wanna read books that make me happy, that have a happy end. And if you wanna read those other types of books, fine, good for you. But for me, I want things where I go on a journey,

and there's hot sex that I can dog ear those pages and read all of that however many times I want. But then also it brings me joy. And I find that there is a tendency for people to roll their eyes at things that bring joy and bring women joy, especially.

And it pisses me the fuck off constantly. And again, like you were saying, like any time a woman, she writes something and there's like even a little hint of sex that's not like fade to black or like, you know, very like artistically mentioned.

It's like suddenly it devalues the work. And it doesn't matter what else is in that book if there is some kind of like hot graphically. And I'm like, I don't understand though because you're writing a thing that is so accurate to life

and sex is a part of life. I was gonna say, this is one of the, this is the commonality that all of us share in this world is we all have sex, we all deserve pleasure. And so if we continue to go down the path of women shouldn't write about these things or read about these things or talk about these things,

then it really is still just a man's game. So-

It's very like Victorian almost, where I'm like, okay, you're getting into the nitty gritty of your Midwestern alcoholic. I'm like, what about the sex? What's going on with that? That is a key part of anyone's life. I'm like, you wanna have a mirror, an accurate mirror. And you don't have to have sex,

but it's just this idea that having it there, again, devalues the work. I find it a little more than frustrating. But then it's also like anything related to women. Like I, again, like watching like Lord of the Rings or like reading that like as a kid,

like all these fantasy books, like with all these guys in them.

There's like no women.

Well, I would think like, okay, like if I was there, like me and Legolas are running through the Merkwood together, because I totally marry Legolas in my mind.

Obviously, Sarah.

Yes, yes. I'll give you that one.

Thank you, thank you very much. That's my number one fantasy. But I'm going on an epic fantasy quest in my mind. I'm in Mordor, I get my fucking period. What do I do? And I wanna write about that shit. I'm like, that's like, I mean,

it's not only like funny to me, but it's also like, this is a reality. It's like, I'm like, and so like in my books, I'm like, I wanna write about things that like, you know, the sex, the like, you know.

The real stuff.

Like the real stuff. Or I'm like, do you have cramps?

Sarah J Maas is getting the hard hitting facts.

I just wanna know, maybe some people don't wanna know those things, but I was like, I get such, I do such a deep dive into the world, into these characters that I'm thinking of like, bathroom breaks.

When was their last period?

Like all of that. I think it's so obvious, though, that although there, and we always hear the negatives, there's such clearly an appetite for what you've done. I also love how you talk about the real stuff, because speaking of the real stuff, obviously, yes, your books are fiction, but, like, you are hitting very real, honest topics

that you can kind of extract what you wanna take from each. And I think there was a lot of online discourse around Feyre's pregnancy in A Court of Silver Flames, because I think a lot of people were frustrated, right? That she didn't have control or understanding of what was happening to her body,

and her partner did, which we'll get to. But can you talk a little bit about why you chose

to write her story that way? I love my children. I am fucking obsessed with my kids. I hated being pregnant. I hated it. It was traumatic for me every step of the way,

starting with like when I was first pregnant with my son and I was told by like this asshole of a nurse like, okay, this is your weight and you can only gain this much weight while you're pregnant. And like as someone who's had like a history with like disordered eating and stuff like being told like you can you're only allowed to gain between this

month like here and here. Like this is all you can gain during pregnancy. It took every bit of joy away. Where instead of focusing on this beautiful, beautiful baby growing inside of me, I was thinking about the food I was putting in my body.

And then the constant tests and appointments where you're being like, literally like having like probes in you. And like, you know, just like, it felt very, and like, I'm like the person where I like, I have to make myself go to the gynecologist,

even though I love my gynecologist. I'm like, I hate doctors, I hate waiting rooms. I hate all of that. I hate the interruption to my daily life. And so pregnancy was not fun. And then my son was born in an emergency C-section two weeks late.

The people that I knew back then who had had kids were like, oh, like you don't wanna take any of the drugs. Like you will like really hurt like the baby. And it's like the opposite. Like if you're a good mother, like you won't like take the pain medication.

And so I was like, I came up with a birth plan. I had a doula, I had all this stuff planned out. And if that works for you, like that's fine. But for me, that was my way of trying to like control it. And then that day, I'm like, I'm told, no, like I have to have every medical intervention possible. I have to have an emergency C-section.

But like, worse than that, like I went into the hospital and I was told by the doctor who was going to like induce she was first going to induce me she's like go have a big meal because you're going to be like, you know, pushing this baby out all night. So I get to the hospital after having like a big dinner to repair myself for labor. And then it turns out like I need to have an emergency C section. But the doctor who is there is a man.

And he starts yelling at me saying, why would you eat anything? You can't eat anything. And I was like, your colleague literally told me to go have a big dinner and come here. I did not know I was having an emergency C-section. I'd never had surgery of any sort in my life before this point.

So like for me, even to be in like a hospital gown in a hospital, like I'm terrified. And then this male, this man I've never met before, and like is telling me like, this is what we are doing and like you did everything wrong and he's scolding me. So I'm already terrified, it's my first kid, I don't know what to expect.

And so then they're like, okay, we're taking you back. And I was like, can my husband come back for like the epidural for all, like I'd never seen the inside of an operating room. And they were like, no. And I was like, can he please come back? I need someone there with me. I've never done this before.

And they're like, he's not allowed in there. And so like, they wouldn't let him back. So I'm like in the like operating room, like sitting on the table, they're like ignored, like they did not give a shit. It was the intern, like the med school intern that like saw me like panic, like a girl, and she came over and like held my hand through it. And I was like, whoever you are, and like, I hope like she, she probably has no idea that she helped me like that meant so much to me that day,

that moment of kindness, where I was like, a fellow young woman, woman being like, this woman is terrified and no one is being nice to her. And so then the recovery from the C-section was horrible. The guy sliced me way too high, he was lazy. I'm probably giving you way too many details.

No, you're not, this is the real shit.

He sliced me in a way that was convenient to him, but essentially destroyed the flow and look of my stomach where it never would heal right to the point where we moved to a new state eventually and I got pregnant with my daughter and like it took me a while to even want to have a second kid because what I went through in the recovery from the c-section was so bad it was not fun for me and like I had to have this emergency C-section,

one, because my son was two weeks late, but two, he started going into distress, but he had not dropped. And it was the kind of thing where I sometimes think about this. If I had been born 100 years before, I would have died.

And so that really stuck with me, this sense of I should be dead and my son should be dead from this. And I hope he's listening to this, like not freaking out right now, but like, I should be like not here.

And so like that kind of like has lingered where I'm like, without modern science and medicine, like I wouldn't be here. But then when I had my daughter, I had an amazing gynecologist here in LA actually. And she, in our first appointment, when we met each other,

she took one look at what this man had done to me and she had to walk out of the room. And she was like, I never would have cut you like that. And she was so, she was shaking. She was like, this was unnecessary. I was like, well, why did he do it?

She's like, because he was lazy and he was an asshole. And so then she, and then when it came time to deliver my daughter and she had to like, she had to use the same line and she was so mad that she had to like do this. And like, so it just was like this very traumatic thing. And my body never felt like, with a kid in me,

like it never felt like my body anyway. anyway, because I'm like, there's an alien growing in me, this is weird. And every time they would move and I'd see them, I'd be like, I was not like, oh, I was like, get it out, what is this? And so then to lose complete control, a lot, I did not have easy pregnancies and births. And so Feyre and all of that just

was my own way of processing my shit. And it's not like I didn't die, I wasn't dead like Feyre was, but the fear, Reese's fear even, that probably came from my fear

in thinking about having another kid. And just all of that, and that's the way where like the things I go through in life feed into my books where like it wasn't a play by play of my pregnancy and like obviously my kids don't have wings

that are getting stuck in the birth canal, but like the fear, the trauma, like all of that, like the writing that book allowed me to get it out of my system, in a way, and process it.

Thank you for sharing that, because obviously I've read the book, and this gives so much more color to, like, the why, and it just made me think, too, like, we don't talk about how it is very risky.

Yeah, and there's like a constant, like they're constantly doing tests. Like every ultrasound is terrifying because you wanna make sure is everything okay? Is there a heartbeat even? And you're like, and so there's all,

there's joy in it, but there's fear constantly, like constantly built into the stages of pregnancy. And like, maybe some women do just have pure joy, but I found it to be very stressful, very scary. I just was constantly like worrying that something would go wrong.

I mean, when I was pregnant with my daughter, I actually like broke my ankle and fell down the stairs. Yeah, I like took one step and like my ankle just like crunched and then I fell down the stairs because my ankle just crunched and then I fell down the stairs because my ankle gave way and I was pretty heavily pregnant.

I had to be rushed to the hospital and they'd check that the baby was okay.

That I was-

It's traumatizing.

Yeah, and it just was a level of freak out where everyone's like, oh my God, the worst possible thing could happen and it's happened. It was intense.

Were you nervous at all about the feedback of writing this into Feyre's?

No, I mean, like the thing is, is like, again, with like the sex and the periods, I'm like, motherhood is a thing that so many women experience, for better or worse. And it was something that I wanted to write about where I didn't want, like,

like Feyre's journey shouldn't just end where it's like she's happily ever after and she's punching out kids. I'm like, no, like, there's like a story to be told there. There are things that like will play out from that and like motherhood doesn't need to be like glossed over. It doesn't need to be something that's like seen as weak. Like someone being in a loving relationship with a person and choosing to bring a new life into this world and to share their world and open up their hearts to someone,

that's a beautiful thing. Like however you make a family, like that is a beautiful, wonderful thing and it is not a weakness. And like I have become a stronger person because I'm a mother.

Like I learned how to stand up for myself becoming a mom more than I ever did before I had kids. And I realized like I, who I am now, not just being a mom, but the things I have learned as a mom like I realized like they're like the biggest badasses in the world and like I have learned more

from being a mom than I ever did. And I think that's a strength and a wisdom that like should be shared. It is. And like, yeah. It's beautiful that you did.

I also remember, and I don't know if you can say if it was related to that, but you've said before that you were going through some mental health struggles while writing A Court of Silver Flames. And in the book, obviously,

we see Nesta working through some of her trauma and trying to overcome it. Like, in what ways did your life at the time mirror or influence each other in that writing process? All of my books kind of have mirrored my own mental health journey, even before I realized I had issues. Like, a lot of what, like, Aelyn went through and, like a lot of what like Aelin went through

and like air of fire, all of that, like that was like drawn from like very broken places in me. Mist and Fury, that came out of me and I didn't even realize like what that meant about me, but Silver Flames was really the first time when I understood the connection.

And I, around 2018, I mean, it was the year my son was born, I had three books published. I was requested to come back from my maternity leave, like a couple weeks later to do like copy edits like page like like I just like reviewing stuff and like so I literally like the stuff I sent in was splattered with breast milk

because I was like pumping and pumping like while I'm like editing pages. It was a lot and like there was a lot and it was like like Kingdom of Ash was coming out that year and like, I just kept like refining things and tweaking things and it's about to go to the printer and I'm told like, it's too long. The book is too long by a couple pages. It has to go to print in like two days.

We need to find like five pages to cut. And like, not just like, like, like, so I went through this book, again, pumping, hormonal, recovering from a C-section, frantic to find, like to move texture, like literally, not just like cutting words, but like being like, this line, like you could like bump this word up here,

like all like 1000 pages in a frenzy. I finish it and then I get an email. Oh yeah, we found this space anyway, it's okay. And so like, it was just like, there was a lot going on. And so like, that was the year that I started to have these like panic attacks, where I had this overwhelming sense that

something awful was going to happen, that it was all going to go away and implode. And that like it and it got like I would, I would I had a panic attack that lasted for like two three days out of the I'd never had one before and then they just started happening like more and more frequently until like I got to like the fall of like 2019 and I reached like such a dark place that like I scared myself and I realized like needed to talk to someone, I needed therapy. It was a very, I'm feeling like I'm gonna cry talking about

it, it was a very, very low moment. And going to therapy wound up being the thing that saved my life, It saved my life. And I went because I looked at my son, sorry, and I just was like, I want to be here. This is what I'm fighting for. I don't want to feel this hole. And so I started going to therapy, I got put on medication, we figured it out. It was rough. But out of that, as I was doing that,

that's when I started writing Silver Flames. And so what Nesta feels in that book, I wrote that as I was going through therapy. And so like, I've like never cried talking, I feel very emotional talking about this, but I remember like the exact moment when I like came up with the idea for the scene

where she and Cassieian are taking that hike and she just breaks down. And that was me in New Zealand with Josh at my lowest on a hike, thinking the same thing. And as I was on this hike, I started crying and then I saw Nesta and I saw this scene.

And so that came out. I took notes, I wrote down that scene, that all came out of me. And so where she gets like at the end, like she's not perfect, she's not healed, she's still a work in progress. But like, she was in a hole, I was in a hole,

and like we dug our way out of it together. And like the friends that I like made during that, like it's like the friendship she made, where like the love that I made during that, it's the friendship she made, where the love that you have with your romantic partner is one thing, but then finding girlfriends that get you and don't judge you, that is another thing.

And that was a gift that I was given too. I just basically wrote what needed to come out of me as I was going through all of it. And so that book has a very, very special place in my heart. But now I'm able to look back at, like, Mist and Fury, and, like, Aelin's journey in Tornado Glass, and realize, like, oh, yes, like, I did actually suffer

from a lot of these things for many, many years, and I had coping mechanisms in place that were very effective until they weren't anymore. Can you share a little bit with Mist and Fury,

like what you were going through?

I mean, Feyre's sense of panic, like those panic attacks that she has, where she's describing walls coming in, and like all of that came from feelings that I have, or I didn't even know I was having panic attacks that raced the acid in the blood feeling,

reactions to things, like just like these ups and downs, like all of that. And like I drew on my own like emotional feelings, but I had no idea until I was able to reflect in therapy, like, oh, like, so like high school, like, yeah, like of course that's why I felt the way I did.

Like my anxiety around like tests and all of that and like having to like perform, like so many, like I've uncovered so many things about myself that now make like looking back on my books, I'm like, oh, this is really interesting because like this was the shit that I was going through

without even realizing I was going through that.

But Sarah, like it's so real hearing you speak about this because you sharing your birth journey. And as a woman sitting across from you, I, when you were like, oh my God, I hope this isn't too much detail. I was like, no, no, no, keep going.

Because I think all of us are sitting here being like, yes, we've experienced it. We've all gone to, whether it's a gynecologist and it's been uncomfortable or a doctor. And these are real things that kind of are like hush hush and you don't talk about all the way from that traumatic experience.

And then having your child, you having this moment where the thing that you loved the most of like wanting to have a child and also writing and all of it kind of closing in and not going the way you want it to. And everyone's like yelling at you to get these things done. What used to be such a fun time in your life to just write, cause it was in your brain.

Now it's like, it's a deadline, let's go.

It's a job.

It's a job. And so you started to put too much pressure on yourself because understandably this thing has gotten so massive. And unfortunately as humans, sometimes we literally need the breaking point to slow us down, to be like, something has to change. I can't live like this forever.

Yeah, yeah.

And just like realizing that like I do have a value as a person beyond my books and like my, the love that like the people around me feel for me is not tied to my success. And accepting that whatever happens, that doesn't take away from me.

And the blessings that I have in my life, not in terms of the material things, but my children, my husband, my friends, those are all the things that nothing can take that away from me. And that's what I realized.

I learned to separate it in a very healthy way. Where now, like it is like a job for me now, but it's something that I can approach with joy and like confidence where I'm not operating from a place of fear, which is what started to happen before I had these like massive panic attacks.

That is so relatable and I have also experienced that in my life. So I'm like very in simpatico with you right now. And I think a lot of people can relate to that, of having a feeling in your life where you get something you've always wanted, but then the fear of losing it, it starts to take over your entire body.

It eats away at you.

And you feel like as big as it keeps getting, you almost, you don't have time to stop and process it and enjoy it. And it's like, all of a sudden, your greatest happiness that was this passion thing becomes this nightmare.

Exactly. That only you can kind of re-regulate and be like, if all this goes away tomorrow, I'm still me. I have my husband, I have my family, and it doesn't have to go away tomorrow, but I have to believe that if I need to know, I would be okay if it didn't.

So I can be right. My therapist made me go through a scenario. She's like, okay, it's all done, what are you doing? And like, she made me walk through it. She's like, what do you do? I need to make sure that my kids have, we went through every worst case scenario and she had me figure my way out through it until I realized I will survive.

I am strong, I am able to adapt and pivot if I need to. So knowing that, that gave me a freedom to be like, yeah, okay, I'll do the thing that I wanna do. Worst case scenario, I'll be a florist slash okay, I'll do the thing that I wanna do. Like worst case scenario, I'll be like a florist slash like DJ slash like amateur marine biologist. Like I wanted to be like as a kid.

Did you wanna, okay, when I was in middle.

Florist, DJ, marine biologist.

Yes, okay, like when I was in middle school.

Sarah James asked what?

When I was in middle school, I had this like, I loved shark. I still love sharks. Okay. But I wanted to be a marine biologist as well as a writer. Okay. But like, I had this dream of like living like on the beach and like the Caribbean, like sleeping in a hammock at night.

And then like going out in the morning with like my spear fishing gun and catching my like lobster for breakfast. And then I go out and study sharks all day. And like that was the life I was gonna lead. So you're like, I could tap back into that guys. I'll go back to, I nearly flunked every science and math course, which is why I did not become

a marine biologist, freshman bio. I was like just on the verge of an F the entire year.

It's good to know though. Like if all this goes away, we know where to look for you. Yeah, find me on the open seas. Call Her Daddy is brought to you by Hidden Valley Ranch. Watching a basketball game isn't the same without Hidden Valley Ranch. Am I right or am I right?

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I love that we also just hit on like F the whole system of like, oh my God, she's just talking about sex. And we just went through all this really intense fucking shit. And now we can talk about the sex in a fun way because that is not just what it is,

but it's a huge major point.

My parents, I'm not even telling them about this interview. in a fun way because that is not just what it is, but it's a huge major point. So-

My parents, I'm not even telling them about this interview.

Okay, don't even tell them.

Yeah, don't tell mom and dad, guys.

Don't tell mom and dad. They're never gonna watch this.

They won't even know.

No, they don't know how to use an iPad.

Perfect.

My dad's reading the paper newspaper still. I was thinking about it. You talked about how you love to write about the push and pull in relationships romantically, which obviously we all love it. But what first you specifically really makes you tick about that type of dynamic?

I just like, if I'm like, does that kind of turn me on?

Yeah?

OK, then I'm going to fucking write it. And that dynamic, the characters have to have that spark initially that's almost beyond me me where like, if they don't like, and sometimes like two characters will like get together and there's like something there that I didn't even like play.

I'm like, okay, like we're gonna go with that. And I like the way like that makes me feel like there's something there that I can't put my finger on, but there is like a chemistry. Give me an example. I mean, when I was first writing Akatar a million bajillion years ago, those initial few weeks,

I was just going by like headlight style. I would only write as far as I could just like see like down the road. And so Feyre, I just was writing as it came to me. Like I did not plan that book. It just poured out of me. So, I didn't know what was gonna happen,

I didn't plan it out beforehand. So, Feyre, there's a beast and I'm like, oh, this guy is hot and she gets to his house and I'm like, oh, he's sexy. And then we get to, oh no, oh no, like it's not this guy, it's this guy. And then like, and so like that was like, so like that initial seed, I was like, this is a sweet little romance with like, like Beauty and the Beast with like Feyre and Tamlin.

And then like Paige, whatever, it's like Rhys walks on. And like, I did not plan him. He walked into that scene ahead of time. I was like, I got like writing this in real time, not planning it. I had nothing to do, I didn't have a job at that time. So I just was like writing whatever came out of me that day. And so like, I-

One of the most epic scenes, you're like,

it just happened in my brain. Literally, I was just writing this scene where like I had planned for there to be like, you know, oh no, like this is what we're doing. So it's like that kind of thing where I'm like,

and that's just like, I saw it and it's like felt it all, like, but then like, of course, like, it was so funny when like the first ACOTAR came out and people were like, I love Tamlin so much, I'm so happy. I'm so happy for you. Also, I'm so sorry.

I will pay for the tattoo laser removal in like a year.

Well, no, it was such a mindfuck because I also was falling in love with Tamlin and then I was like, what is happening?

But I wanted it to be like, like, you know, like when you fall in love with a guy and then you realize like he's not the one for you and like he's got a lot of fucking issues. Yes, across your books if you had to say right now today which couple is your current favorite?

Oh my god.

I don't know that's really really hard and depends on my mood.

I don't know.

Okay.

That's the important I don't like that I can't I can love them all. Again, like I have to feel it and like feel that like sexiness. And like, and I have to be like obsessed with them.

Okay, fuck, marry, kill, resand, hunt, rowan.

Okay, okay, okay, okay. You got this. I'm like trying to think of like the realities of my own marriage and like what has worked and what doesn't work. I'm like, which one of them farts the least?

That's the one I wanna marry. Perfect.

Cause I live with that reality.

Well, you know, you know you wrote these people.

I don't know, this is hard. I mean, like I kind of like wanna fuck all of them. I mean, to be quite honest, and marry all of them. I don't wanna kill any of them. You'll fuck them all.

Yeah, I'll just-

Honestly, you make the rules today, Sarah.

Okay. You wanna fuck them all.

Yeah. I'm fine.

My parents aren't listening to this. Yeah, I'll fuck all of them. They have no idea. My son is listening. Your son and your husband are in the other room, but that's fine. like part of your process is you sit and ponder how sexy the character's potential name is

before officially giving it to them.

Oh yeah, again, like I am, like I will always be like a Legolas fan girl and part of that's like his name. And like, like what if his name like, I mean, no offense to anyone, but like Frank. Right, you're like Frank, right?

Like I'm not getting off to Frank.

The elf warrior prince. Wait, are there any names that almost made the cut

in your series but didn't that you could share?

I mean, nothing like, nothing, I don't think I've like named like, every like, I've used up like all my hot, but like usually like, if like someone's attractive, I'm like, okay, let's find the hottest name. And then I'll like go through like baby name websites

and I'm like, sexy Celtic warrior God with abs of steel. What name is that? I wish I could see your Google searches. It would be sad. It would be like, what time's the next La Boo Boo drop? And then like, show me abs.

And what are good names?

And what are hot baby names? That's a sexy, sexy baby names, which I'm sure is a very strange thing to...

I was so messed up from it because when I was reading it at first, I was in my own world and I really thought his name was Rysand. Oh. And then I thought, you're like, oh, you idiot.

And then I thought, you're like, oh, you idiot. And then I thought, Sarah.

No, I allow any and all pronunciations. You do.

It's a safe space.

I am not gonna judge. I am a reader first and foremost. Okay.

So I understand.

Well, because when you shorten it to rise, it looks like rise instead of Reese. And then I remember going on TikTok and I was like, oh my God, I'm an idiot. And so then I had to like retrain my brain, which is fine. And Feyre, I forget.

I think-

Feyre is not a natural one. Reese is an actual like name in this world.

But wouldn't it be R-E-E?

Well, it can be spelled like that, but isn't there like a Phillies player? You're right, I, yeah. Whatever, I don't know his, it's not like, Feyre is a made up name. That one, you have-

How did you come up with that? I don't know.

You just came to me- That was just like, I was like,

what sounds cool, Feyre, done.

Done, put her in.

Done, we're done.

Okay, we need to books, we saw Tamlin, like, trying to justify his controlling tendencies by saying things like, oh, my gosh, I'm just doing it to protect Feyre. Um, then he locks her in the manor, which was infuriating and wild. What were you hoping for readers

to understand about their relationship as that slowly started to progress. Cause you're right, you made us all fall in love with him and get tattoos about him and then, and then.

Yeah, and you know what? I think like people change in relationships and what Feyre and to be fair, Tamlin went through under the mountain, fucked them both up majorly. And Tamlin is someone that, you know,

we haven't delved too deeply into this, but it's been put in the books. Like he had a fucked up family. He did not have any systems in place to cope with that. But he also is a guy who's been like in charge and powerful for a long time.

And then like someone's like, like he doesn't know, he doesn't have the emotional toolkit to handle this. and he implodes and he drags her down with him and that was just like, it just felt natural to me, like it just felt like a natural thing where like I knew who Tamlin was as a person, knew like that this is how he would

react and this like shows who he is. And it's like, Rhys responds to the trauma in a different way, in the way that Feyre needs and connects with. Tamlin can't handle that trauma. And he made his own choices,

but he's also the result of his upbringing. So there's an element of element that I pity him, you know, in the same way I pity anyone who's endured an abusive family trauma, all of that. Like he's been through it and he doesn't know how to cope with it.

And he does shitty things because of it. And I'm not excusing those shitty things because that is why Feyre moved on. But I wanted Feyre to realize there are different ways to face the shit that you go through, and that's what defines you.

The wedding scene.

Oh yeah.

I loved it so much because I thought it was actually such, again, such an accurate representation of a woman before those doors open. And you see so many women who talk about, I kind of knew before I went down the aisle, so why did I do it? And you slowed it down so perfectly that it was this, like, horrifying, amazing moment that it was just, it was amazing.

Do you think Tamlin will ever have a full redemption arc?

I don't know. It's tricky because I've had so many women, especially including some like very dear friends of mine who've like come up and told me about like how they saw their own abusive relationship mirrored in Tamlin. And so if I were to ever write like more about Tamlin, it would be done in a way where like, it doesn't erase what he has done. It, and it doesn't like invalidate the feelings of like my readers who have connected to that.

Like I would, like, it would have to be done in a way that was genuine to him and to reality, but also like well aware aware of what he means for different types of people and different experiences and to honor and respect them for that. And I don't usually let those things dictate what I write,

but it's something, like one of my very best friends is a survivor of domestic abuse. And she often refers to her ex as Tamlin. And I've actually talked to her about it. How would you feel if just me as the creator, separating us as friends,

would that feel like a betrayal to you? And so we've had interesting conversations about it, but it's something I'd really want to think about. And I've given myself several options because it's something that's probably like the hardest thing for me to figure out. To be quite honest, like that's tricky for me.

It's tricky for me also just emotionally because like part of me wants to be like, that fucker can burn in hell forever. But like as a writer, I'm like, but like what is the story? Like what is like, and like not to excuse him for any of it,

but just explore it.

I love hearing your thought process though, because again, it's like this world and then pulling out of it, like they are such like real themes. And then also hearing the dynamic, like I'm curious, how did you,

obviously Rhys is the highest fey in existence. And so how-

Highest or hottest?

Both.

Ha!

Ha ha ha ha ha!

Both. Both, Sarah. How did you decide like, how Feyre was going to maintain her autonomy in that type of relationship?

I mean, that should be just like a given thing in any relationship, regardless of like, who has power and what, and like, I don't know, I'm not attracted to fucking assholes. Like my husband and I have been together actually

since I was 18, for all my like crapping on like, you know, like people should have multiple romantic partners. My husband was like my first and only boyfriend. Yeah, but like he, we are equals, we are partners in this. I think I just demand that the females in my books have those relationships of respect and partnership

just because that's what I demand of myself and what I expect of myself. And that's the gift that I've been given is someone that respects me and honors me and loves me. And the power dynamic thing, I'm like, I don't know, it's kind of like,

I think it's really kind of hot that the super powerful dude wants to get on his knees in front of this lady. She is in control of him 100%. But she doesn't want control over him. She wants a partner. but she doesn't want control over him. She wants a partner. Like,

she doesn't want like, you know, like they do have like a push pull of like sexy, like who's in charge of what, but like they, they ultimately like they want a lover who is also like a best friend that like they can be equal and speak to on an honest level.

I think the fans perception of Rhysand was really tested when he didn't clearly communicate the risks of what could happen in this pregnancy to her. What is your take on that?

I mean, Rhys is entitled to, like, go through his own shit and make his own mistakes. And should he have told Feyre? Yes, but he was absolutely terrified. Like, faced with, like, like... I don't know, like, I just tried to decide. Like, Rhys in that choice, he made a bad choice, I think.

Like, it was not, like Feyre was obviously upset, like Nesta thought it was fucked up. And like, he, I love Rhys, smoking hot, like I love who he is beyond that. But like, I think it's much more interesting for me as a writer to have him make perhaps a bad call and do it from a place of love and then like be able to reflect later,

being like, maybe I did like the thing here that like the ex-boyfriend like also kind of did and like that's not okay. And like, what do I learn from it? Like, yeah, he's like 500 years old, but he's still learning.

Like he's never like been like, he's never been a mate husband. He's never had a pregnant mate. He's frantic. Like he finds out she's been given a death sentence, but she's full of joy about it. And how do you be that person that takes the joy away? Like how, like, and Feyre would have

wanted to know, but I can understand why Rhys didn't want to tell her because there was just, like, he was so desperate to find a solution. Like, why stress her out until, like, he was desperate for a solution. And like, no, and you're right. It's so much more interesting to read from that perspective instead of like, oh, then I tell her and everything.

Like,

Yeah, no, like they need to have like issue, like they're, it's true love, they're mates, but like they will, like, they do have issues that they need to sort out. They have, they can make mistakes. Both of them can make mistakes.

What do you think was the most romantic moment you wrote between Reese and Feyre?

Starfall, I think when like, she gets like, they get splattered with like the glitter or whatever. Like, I don't know, there's something about that. That scene always stands out for me. I love, like I still hear like,

like that scene was very much inspired by Florence and the Machine's Cosmic Love. And it's like, every time I like hear that song, I'm like taken back to like being at the house of wind, like seeing them.

It's really cute.

Yeah. How, is it so crazy the way that chapter 55 has like, everyone's like chapter 55, chapter 55. You're like, oh my, did you know? Like, what was your headspace when you were writing that?

I just was like, finally, they're finally fucking, like good, like I can't wait for this. So I just like, but like, it was like such an emotional release because it was like the buildup of the entire backstory that I as the writer had been waiting and waiting, waiting to finally reveal.

And I got to get that out of my system and lay it all out there. And then the consummation of that. And I just was like, this is everything. And just was so satisfying. So I was crying, but then also just like,

yeah, this is hot.

And so for it to become a thing, that actually means a lot to me because that was a scene that I had looked forward to writing for so, so long, that when it finally came out, like it's almost exactly like verbatim, like the way it poured out of me,

like not much change between like the initial version of that scene and the published one. So like, it just means a lot that it connected, like it's become a thing.

Oh girl, it hit. You mentioned mates and to just quickly go through that, because I don't know if we still have people that are listening that aren't familiar with the books. I would be shocked.

You should be gone by now.

You should be gone. You should be gone. We're a little too in the weeds, but can you just quickly explain like what that means in the world,

mates? It's kind of like your destined true love in a way, but it's complicated because there's a biological component to it where like you can be mated to someone that is like not actually your true love. So like there's like true true mates and then there's kind of like nature made a mistake,

made like Reese's parents did not love each other. Like it was not a great relationship, but they were mates. There's a biological thing where they're like, we want to be together, but then it's like we're fucking miserable with each other, especially as mom. It's tricky, but then when you find your perfect mate, like Reese and Feyre, Cassian, that is the last little piece of your soul that was a little broken and is now, you found your person.

But the rejecting of mates, is Elaine rejecting the bond with Lucien?

I think Elaine's got her own trauma and shit that she's going through right now. I mean, imagine being transformed into a whole new body, a whole new lifestyle. Like, you are gone from, like, a... I don't know. And, like, the human world there, like, what, 60 years is a good life? To suddenly, like, centuries, like, a millennium.

Like, the world looks very different. And, like, surprise! Like, you've been, like, forcibly, essentially married to a stranger who also was involved in bringing you into this world and betraying you and shoving you into the cauldron. It's a lot. She's got a lot of shit that she's processing.

And so exploring a concept of a free will, like what does that look like with a mating bond? What does that mean? And does nature get it wrong sometimes? Does it get it right sometimes? And again, as a writer, I have to be very,

I'm like, I like to find things that make me interested. You get mated to someone and you don't wanna be mated. I'm like, what do you do? You're stuck with this person?

Like what?

What do you do? But I mean, the guy's like hot, but it's like, what if it's not? Like you don't know. Like it's just, it's something that like I really like find to be an interesting concept

versus like Feyre and Nesta where it was so easy for them. Like nature picked right. But yeah. about chapter 55 and all the things. Like, is it true that your grandmother reads these books? Oh my God, yes. I don't know what's worse, my grandma or my mother-in-law reading them.

Or your dad.

My dad, well, my dad at least has been like, we don't speak of this. Okay, so he won't bring it up. No, but like-

But does he read at all?

He used to, I feel like Silver Flames might have like broken him, or he was like, this isn't for me anymore.

Back to the newspaper.

Back to the New York Times. But yeah, my grandma reads them, like everyone in her, like, I know she wouldn't like the term nursing home, but like old people's community reads them. And so I'm like, are y'all getting like frisky,

like reading this? It's like, she's 95 years old. She's amazing. She is like my number one like icon in my life. But like, she's gotten like all the people reading it.

Wait, did she ever give you feedback?

No, but then like on the opposite end of that, my mother-in-law has like grilled me and been like, are like the sex scenes in this inspired by you and Josh? And I'm like, yeah, when I'm like fucking your son, I am writing down notes. Would you like me to describe everything for you, Linda?

She's like, yes, actually.

And I'm like, no, no, no. I'm like, we don't talk about these things.

That is...

It's mortifying.

What are grandma and mother-in-law's favorite series?

I think, I don't know, actually. For grandma, I don't know.

She's read like all of it. All, she's on it.

I feel like my mother-in-law probably loves Akatar the most. Who's her, does she love Rhysand? Yes, I think she like pretends that it's like Josh, even though it's not. She's like, oh, Josh, Josh is like, no, it's not me. No, no, it is not. The number of times I've had to say like, it is not, he does not.

They have both have dark hair and that's it. That's it. That's the only similarity. I think that's so funny, because I have had that where people, because I have talked about sex on my platform, people feel comfortable to come up to me and talk about sex. Have you had any really wild interactions

where people are, whether they're asking details more about the character's sex, or they're asking you about sex.

Oh God, I'm trying to think of what. I mean, like I had a mother come up to me, like a 50 something year old mother and be like, I just wanna say, like my daughter loves your books and you've completely like revolutionized her sex life. And I was like,

well, I'm sure she appreciates you telling me that.

You're like, amazing.

I was like, I love that your daughter, but I also was like, I kind of love that you guys have this dynamic where like, you know about this.

Right. I'm like, I think that's really cool, but also like, I don't know what to say to you as the mother of this child who's... Maybe though it is so, there's a weird thing maybe because it is fantasy, there is like, it kind of is the,

it bridges the gap of just like, episode three of Call Her Daddy, me being like, this is how you give head. And then like, meanwhile, with like, Rhysand and Feyre and Tamlin, all these dynamics, it's a little bit more like,

yeah, like you can ease the blow when you find out that your mother or your sister or your friend is reading it.

Yeah, you know, like I actually learned probably more about sex from like books and stuff because it just seemed a lot less scary to me and felt like very safe and like connected to like things like plot in the world. And so like that was like how I like learned like I would not have like so I think you're I think you're absolutely

right. Call Her Daddy is brought to you by Sephora. Girls, how many of us have woken up after a night out and realized we completely forgot to take our makeup off? Yeah, we have all been there. The mascara is smeared everywhere, the concealers all over your pillow, and your face is already starting to break out. I know that morning after skin can completely ruin my confidence, but luckily Sephora has become my trusted

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me out. Just because we have to throw a couple extra layers on doesn't mean we can't still enjoy ourselves, right? And that includes finding some time to crack a few claws with our friends. Whether you're at your favorite dive bar,

warming up in the crowd at a concert, or just having friends over to watch you know, watch a football game. The best winter nights are really just about doing something together. Personally, I love getting together with my friends in the winter because it's an excuse to make every hangout even cozier. I'm talking blankets out, fuzzy socks on, and white claws in hand.

There is nothing better than sitting by a fire with your friends, catching up all night long, and never leaving the house. So pick up a pack from your favorite local spot and grab life by the claw with your favorite flavor this winter. Please drink responsibly hard seltzer with flavors. White Claw Seltzer Works, Chicago, Illinois. So you're in Los Angeles. Yes. You're here for Call Her Daddy. Yes. But I need to ask you a pretty pointed question. Okay, I feel like you've like asked me a lot of intense questions so I'm very eager to hear what you could be. Okay. I think we need to address your Instagram post.

Which one, Alex? Well, Sarah, the one that quite literally lit the internet on fire, where fans could not tell if it was an arrow, or if it was a six to eight, like, everyone has been freaking out. And so I have the pleasure of sitting across from you.

And so I have to ask, Sarah, what is going on? Okay, well, first of all, I guess I have really shitty handwriting, like really fucking shitty handwriting. If my like arrows and like numbers look messed up like I'm ashamed of this. And it is for the next ACOTAR book, which is coming out on October 27th of this year. I've been working and working on that. It's been a long time coming.

It's something that I it took me a long time to write. Just because there were enough things going on in my life that I had to like sort through and I had to like, and again, like I will talk about that perhaps in more detail one day. I've already cried once today.

Don't make me do it again, Alex.

I don't, yeah, like my makeup stayed intact. Let's not push it. But that, it's taken a while because it took me a while to find the right story and to be in the right headspace. And then what poured out of me was this and it poured out very quickly. I was in Montana this summer and I don't know,

I think there's some kind of energy vortex around Big Sky because I just got there and like it clicked. It all came out of me. So like talking about like deadline, like that's what I was working on. Like I've been working on like this next project.

Not gonna tell you the title yet, but like it's or like cover any of that. No, like I've seen some of it.

Can you tell us length?

I mean, it is, I mean, no, I don't want to say any, I feel like ever, I mean, like it's long, it's long.

You can't tell us who's POV it's from?

No, and that was one of the like surprising things for me and like writing this and like what came out, like it's, you get a lot of like insight into like various things.

Like it's-

Okay, hold on though. Because if I know anything about you, you all, there's always a plot twist. You've always got something also that's like, oh, you thought this, but also this. So is there anything else you want to share

here on Call Her Daddy today? Okay, well, part of why I guess it's tricky to talk about the length of this book is because this book's coming out October 27th and then on January 12th, like two months later, I can't do math, whatever that is, the next ACOTAR book will be coming out.

So there will be two books within like a very short span. And what that means and giving you like a glimpse into this project is just the story that was finally ready to come out of me was big. Really, really, really big. And as I started writing this in this Montana energy vortex,

it came out of me in a way that surprised me. And by the time I reached, I like to do parts in my part one, part two, part three. By the time I got to the end of part one, it was 400 pages long. And there is a certain reality to books,

like Kingdom of Ash had to be like two pages, because the glue will not hold books together. But what I was writing felt right. That was what the story that needed to be told. And so I decided I wasn't going to approach this project from a traditional format of a book.

And what if this story, like what if this book was really fucking long? Like what if it took me more than a thousand pages to tell the story that needed to be told, the arc that I wanted to create from start to finish? What if that took a long time?

Like what if that took beyond the constraints of a single volume? And what does that look like? How do I tell that story? And so part one was this huge, huge thing. And then I realized it was gonna be four parts,

a book told in four parts. So then I wrote part two and part three, and those were really fucking long. And so like, and then part four has yet to be written because I'm right now, I'm trying to just get part one, which is out in October and then parts two and three,

which will be out in January, is like one combined thing. So it's basically gonna be like three physical volumes, but it's like one thing altogether, that like no amount of glue in like any publishers like factory could ever like hold this. So it's meant to be read ideally as like one massive, massive story as opposed to like install like a trilogy. It's not a trilogy, like arcs aren't

like wrapped up. It's like in the way like, you know, you take my book, it's like, if you expand it all apart one, all apart two, all apart, like all apart, like it would be huge like that. And so I just decided like, I've never told a story that way. This is how it wants to come out. Why do I have to be held back by the realities of like the glue that we need to hold, like hold the pages in

or just like placement on a shelf. And how do I get this story out to my readers who've been waiting so patiently as soon as I can? I could not live with the idea of publishing part one and then being like, you gotta wait a year for, I was like, no, I want that in everyone's hands. And so that's why we're doing like this

like back-to-back release. So there's gonna be like a lot of ACOTAR in a very short time. And then eventually like the conclusion will be like written like once I get, I want to get these, like I don't want anyone to wait any longer.

But it's like, it's a different, it's, you know, it's at Qatar, but just I'm telling it in a way that's exciting to me and like gives me like the space that the story demanded and the characters demanded.

Oh, yeah.

I'm trying and I'm sure everyone's trying to do this right now. I'm trying to rack my brain around like every Easter egg you just gave us of like, who's, what story needs to be told, all of like the way that it's being formatted,

but like, I cannot wait for October. I am so excited that you, cause the last time you came out was 2021 with the last ACOTAR.

Yeah, yeah, I think it was, God was it, oh my God, that was so long. I know, it's been, and that's why I was like, I'm not playing by anyone else's rules. Like this is like, I want, the most important thing for me is to write these stories

the way they need to be told, but to also like honor my fans who like make all this possible. And I'm not playing by industry rules. I'm not playing by marketing. I'm doing what feels organic and good for me and my readership. And I wanna do it in a way that's fun

and we can all have a great time where it's just like, the story will unfold in the way that I feel would be the most fun to for all of us to like come together and be like, oh, like what's going on?

And like, what- I am like, what the fuck are you doing over there?

Like, I can't- There's a lot of scheming happening. And what was it like coming back to the ACOTAR series

and like writing and getting your head in this headspace?

It was obviously like hard. And again, there's like an element to it where I'm like, okay, like shit that was like tricky, like unrelated to the books, but related to the books that I had to like navigate and like figure out. And I wasn't ever gonna force myself to write a book cause like that doesn't make a good book. But I'm also someone who like I take no shit from myself

or I'm like if I feel like I have writer's block, I'm like get your ass in the chair and work. But this was different, this was different. This wasn't like me like just wallow, like this was a level of like I needed to get some things sorted out first.

And so this came out like when I was, when it was ready to come out, when I was when it was ready to come out when I was right like when this right story hit me like it hit me hard and I had a vision from the start of like what it would be how I would deliver it to you guys and like that's what I want to do and like getting to be in the driver's seat and decide like this is how I want to tell stories and like if I want to adapt it for like every new book or like just like arc,

I can do that. Like I can do that and like, why not? Like, why can't we tell, like why do we have to like stick to like these boxes of like, this is how you tell a story from A to B. I'm like, no, like what if we do something different?

Like- I am like, what are you up to over there?

I can't, oh my God, the theories are gonna go crazy. Oh my God, I'm like, what did you do? Well, now I'm thinking that I'm just like, I'm juggling editing two books at once, two massive, massive books at once. So I'm just like, that's why I'm like pounding like Diet Cokes and coffee.

Okay, well, we're almost done. We are gonna end with some rapid fire. And I don't know if you'll answer any of these, but I'm gonna try. Because I'm a fan and I've got to try

for the girlies out there.

Okay?

So shut me down, but shut me down easy. We're gonna start from the beginning. We're gonna start with the throne of glass. What did Lorcan do? Oh, someone explained this to me. Like a couple months ago.

I don't know. I didn't know how to feel about it then. I don't know how I feel about it now. I mean, like maybe like bonus content and like surprise present, Christmas present sometime for all y'all.

Okay. Where is Vaughn?

You know, that's actually a thing that I think about a lot.

A lot. And that's all I thing that I think about a lot. A lot. And that's all I'll say about that. Okay.

Is the settling the same or similar as the drop?

I don't, I don't, you're asking, okay, let's skip.

Just skip, just skip, just go, go, go.

Why, you're like skip, just say skip if you can't answer it. Why did Ailyn have to lose her powers?

I mean, I do think that like, I actually really grappled with that one where I was like, I hate the idea of her having to give up something that she learned to love and embrace. But at the same time, like, I do think that like there needed there needs to be some level of sacrifice when it comes to making a decision that big to give up something that you love for something else. That's powerful and I don't think it would,

the ending would have felt as deserved. But then I also think it opens up, again, in my endless thinking about things. Just in me as her creator and writing this, what does it look like for her after that? You know, like you go from like all this power,

then you give it up and like, how does that feel? Like, I just, I find that there was like, even with that as an ending, it felt like a different start of like a journey for me. That just like was fascinating for me.

I feel like people online have expressed frustration that some of the female characters like her and Nesta have had to sacrifice their powers and strength while male characters have not. What is your response to that?

Like these books are about women coming into their power. But also like taking away the magic doesn't take away from their strength. And I think like that's what like Nesta and Aelyn realizes that like they're still fucking badasses. And I think that's why it's so easy for Nesta and Aelin realizes that like, they're still fucking badasses. And I think that's why it's so easy for Nesta in the end,

cause she's like, this wasn't, that's didn't define her. And she's still like, she's still Nesta. And so like losing that, like doesn't make you any less of a hero. Doesn't make you any less strong.

Love it, yeah.

Okay, will we ever see our Throne of Glass characters again?

I mean, obviously I've told, I think about them all the time, so who knows? There's gotta be something. If my children let me sleep in past 5am, sure.

Perfect. Kids, come on. Josh, get it together. Where is Manon now? I mean, is she working to rebuild the Wastes? Like what are we doing?

I mean, she's, honestly, she should be in therapy.

Okay.

That's where she is right now. Let's assume she's in therapy because she went through a lot, a lot.

What happened to the world of Throne of Glass book? Will that ever be released?

That wound up being a project that I wanted, I thought would be easy. And then I realized like, no, like I need to actually, this means a lot to me and I need to dedicate a lot of time, but I don't have that time because I want to focus on getting these books,

the actual books out. So maybe that's something that I, like it's still something I want to do, but maybe it comes at a different time.

All right, Akatar, why is there a pool of starlight in the spring court? Is it a portal?

Who thinks of these things?

You!

I mean, I do, I do.

Look at that face.

People read too close, I don't know, I don't, I'm not answering any of this. I'm not answering that.

Okay, how do Fae get into the house of wind because they don't have wings? Like, do they climb the stairs?

This might be something that you find out.

Okay. What is Rhysand's last name?

I'm not telling anyone. There's so much pressure now.

Does it even matter?

No, I mean, like, he's one of one, right? Okay. What is the King of Highburn's actual name? Fred. Frank.

Frank.

I don't...

Actually, yeah, because y'all want to fuck him.

That actually might be something that... We could find out. ...that is discussed. Okay. What are Moore's powers? Like, truth.

Truth.

But you, like, have other powers beyond that, but I don't, I'm not gonna reveal any more about, there might be more about that.

Hey, I'm just trying to get things out of you.

You know what, everything is possible. Everything you're asking me right now could just be like, yes, yes, the answer is yes, you'll find out.

Okay, can you tell us anything about the desk court and are you gonna explore any of it in your next book?

I don't know.

Yeah, but you have to know, like, what do you want me to say, Alex?

What do you want me to say here?

I love you.

What do you want me to say?

Okay, okay, okay, we're moving on. I just, if anything, I'm just getting pleasure out of asking, you don't even need to answer. Okay.

Tell me if I'm pronouncing this right. Where did Bri Axis go? Good, that was good. Thank you. I mean, where do you think she went? What do you think she is up to? I mean, fear itself, what does that, like, where does that go?

Who is Mama Archeron? Is she a descendant of the Iron Teeth Witches?

You're like, you're putting me in pain. I'm gonna serve like an alcoholic drink here. I feel like I need wine. I need a spicy margarita. Okay we're going to Crescent City. Okay. We never saw the body so is Cormac actually dead? Where did you find these questions? All of me and my friends putting this together being like, this is the time of our life. I can like see you with like string

and like putting things on me.

My husband was literally like, what's this episode? I'm like, don't worry about it.

What isn't it?

Exactly. Are Bryce and Hunt end game?

Yes, where does that come?

How could it be?

Well, there are a lot of theories

that Bryce's true mate is Asriel. Is there any truth to that? I don't know. I can tell you, right, I'm sorry to anyone that's shipped that and has been like ride or die with that, but like, no. Bryce and Hunt.

How did the Book of Breathings and The Walking Dead end up in Jezebel's library?

I don't know. You'll have to stay tuned for answers. There are a lot of theories that Rhys and Rune are related. Can you confirm or deny?

You're like, fuck off. You can say fuck off.

I'm not saying that. I like you. I'm not gonna. Okay, fair, fair. Is Maeve related to any of them? I mean, like, what? Like, I feel like I should just hand over my notebooks to you and you can like comb through them for like all the little notes that I've made.

Okay, I have to ask, why are there otters in Crescent City?

Why aren't there otters? It's like, their otters are one of my favorite animals. Like I lose my shit. Like river otters, sea otters, I don't know why I lose it. And so I just was like, what's the cutest thing that like an otter could do? And it's like kind of like an aquatic,

like, you know, like city, like what if otters were just like messengers

with their little paws handing letters?

I love that. You're like, I just put it in there cause I like it.

It just sounded cute to me. Okay, it just sounded cute. What is Fury Axtar? Is she the mercenary that Feyre met in the first Akatar? Okay, these are like, again, these questions that are like, you're asking me things that I'm not sure if I could, should confirm or deny, or just like, let people, am I ruining people's dreams

by answering these things?

I don't know. We've all seen the now deleted Twilight of the Gods Pinterest board.

Really?

What's going on there?

That was just like a story that I like, it was kind of like Crescent City where like I always have like manuscripts and other stories in my head. Like I think I have probably like three or four like unpublished

full books for like different series like on my computer that just like, I don't know if they'll ever see the light of day, but like sometimes I just get a story in my head and like I wanna start writing it and like I like get like ideas for it and it comes out

and sometimes I wanna share that with the world and sometimes I don't.

Okay, who would win in a fight? Bryce, Ailyn, Farrah, or Manon?

They wouldn't fight. They would all be like, this is dumb. We should support each other and let's go get like in and out burger together.

Okay, you obviously are in a success and like a league of your own. You've had just like such an incredible career already. And I know we've talked about the pressures and also the beauty of it. How do you define success at this point in your

career? I mean for me it's two things. Success is two things. One, it's getting to tell the stories that I want to tell how and when I want to tell them. That's a gift. That's a wonderful blessing to have. That's all I ever wanted from when I was a kid. But it's also like, am I happy?

Am I happy in my life doing this? Am I like, what is the balance? And like, do I feel successful in that? Do I feel like I'm able to create from a place of joy and curiosity and excitement, while also having a life that is fulfilling and fun?

And I get to be a mom to these two incredible kids and a wife to an awesome husband. Having that and finding joy from that, from things outside of my books, that feels successful to me. Like I've built something beautiful,

completely unrelated to that, but yeah.

It is so beautiful. And also like, what is so cool too, is like you have completely changed the way that people think about romanticy books and you have given essentially legitimacy, I feel like to an entire genre that was either dismissed

or overlooked at one point.

How do you feel about your legacy in the literary world? This is gonna sound like silly and you probably like won't believe me, but just like talking about things like legacy is like beyond for me. When I started writing, when I started trying to get published, I told myself like, you

know, any time I got a rejection, I was rejected by every single agent except one, every single publisher except one. And those times I told myself it didn't matter if it took me until I was 90 years old to publish a book. If it wasn't the book I was trying to get published, I'd write the next one and the next one and the next one until it happened.

And so like I was willing to have a life where like just one book eventually made it. And that was like, and that still was kind of like, that was the dream. And so everything else beyond then has been insane, like insane to me, because I'm still very much that like girl in middle school or high school, like sneaking off

to like watch anime or like drool over Legolas. And like getting to go like play in these worlds in my head and like do the thing that like makes me come alive every day is like, that's incredible. And so talking about these books going beyond that and meaning something and playing whatever role they have

and letting other similar books get out there and be appreciated and those authors be appreciated,

that's all. books, like get out there and like be appreciated and those like authors be appreciated like that.

That's all like I I just like I feel very, very blessed, very humbled. Like I,

I love that people are reading like people like I mean, as a kid, I just wanted someone to read my shit and be like, it's good. Like, that's all I wanted. I also think it's such a great, inspiring story because someone like you, again, like a lot of times we get the success stories, right? You're sitting here and you're so well-known and you've had such success, but a lot of people could be sitting right now

watching this being like, I've wanted to be a writer or I've wanted to be whatever it be. And when you are told no so many times, that can be depleting. And the fact that you are where you are today, even though people looked at you being like,

you're insane, this isn't gonna work. You had people in jobs look at you and roll their eyes about writing fantasy, right? And look at the empire that you've built. Like what an incredible testimony to women listening. Like, if anything, I genuinely believe

that when people are telling you that you're crazy for wanting to start something or do something and they're all looking at you kind of cross-eyed, that is like your first indicator that you're onto something incredible.

Oh yeah, anytime someone told me I couldn't do something, I would say, watch me. Just watch me, just watch me. You said you're like, I'll send the book one day.

Yeah, yeah.

Where are they now?

Yeah, where are they now? And just like, I don't know, like I wrote the thing that I love, like I wrote the stuff that I love, that I've always loved. And like, I was always flabbergasted that anyone,

especially like older adults would tell like a young person, like it's not worth your time, it will never happen. I'm like, why can't we all be supportive of our dreams? And like, but thankfully, like I knew what I wanted. Like I knew this was what I wanted to do. And so there was nothing that was gonna stop me from that. But I also was willing to like,

if it took me till I was 90, that was just what I want. Just one book that came out when I was 90 years old, like that would have been wonderful.

And look how many you have and more to come.

And more to come.

I cannot thank you enough for sitting down with me. I'm sure you can feel, I could have kept going. Like I have so-

No, I'm very comfortable right now. Like I could sit here forever.

I have so many questions. There's so many questions. There's so many like world-building questions and character arcs. And I recognize I was trying to do a balance of getting to know you, also getting into your psyche. And I think we found a good balance of the themes in your life that have inspired some of these incredible worlds and characters.

But it was really fun to sit down with you because I've been a fan from afar. And now getting to sit with you, I feel even more invested weirdly. And I'm like, now I need to go back and read all of these before October.

No pressure, I just need to find some time.

I'm very glad that I didn't like disappoint you and you were like, she was the worst and like the most boring. If anything, I don't want you to leave. When we turn off the cameras, Oh, and one more question, another question, another question. I'm going to Montana. You want to come to Montana with me? Yeah, let's go. We're going to Montana. Bye, everyone. I'll show you the vortex where everything...

Where you rode it all. Yes, I'll show you the magic vortex. Sarah, thank you so much for coming on here, this was a big, big deal for them. And thank you for making me feel cool.

My friends.

You are cool.

I don't know about that. I mean, like cheetos. You are, you are.

You are literally so cool and you are building worlds that all of us are obsessed with. I don't know what could be a cooler job. Like what you have in your brain has made all of us into this insane fandom. Like bow down to you.

Great work.

I love it. I love it.

Great work.