Wrighty’s Message to Jude & Rooney’s United Contract Revealed | Stick to Football EP 103

Hi everybody. All good? I'll put that under there. No Kieran. No Kieran. Oh no. Oh no, I've lost my glasses. That's a bad start, that is.

No, they're in the car, they're in my car.

I'd say you came in. I'd say a word.

It's quiet, it's never late.

I know, where's the...

Which one am I on? This, Gill's one?

Yeah.

This one here.

Are you ready? Are you ready?

It's all quiet. I haven't done it with Carra with you.

You've done it with Carra on? Brilliant, we've finally got him back while Liverpool still have him on.

I saw somebody bought my hip the other day, by the way. I need to see a specialist, lads.

Told you.

Sore? I need to get it there by the way. I need to see a specialist. I told you.

So? My hip here, honestly. Last couple of months. It's sore today.

Yeah, I think it's not looking good.

You're probably going to have to.

Don't jump into operations.

Do you need anything or are you guys alright?

I'm okay.

Tea?

Tea. I think someone is coming. I told you, but you're not? Yeah, alright. Tea! Tea? I think someone, someone is coming. I told you, but you're not coming to the room.

I was in the queue for age but I'd come here.

No worries, no problem.

No, no, he's coming, I promise, he is coming.

Well, we've got loads of patients around here.

I hope so.

All good, thank you.

There he is.

Forgot my glasses. Oh, you're wearing a hat. I thought you were doing that for a joke. Are you gonna... Who springs to mind? Who are you thinking?

Um, Frank Spencer.

Frank Spencer.

That's class fraud.

Robert Frank Spencer. Franklin Spencer.

Is this ours? Is this...?

I don't know. Is there any...?

So, Kieran's gone to Australia for the Ashes or whatever.

Bruce, he's gone over. Steve?

Is he?

Yeah. Carragher's back.

Not for the whole series, is he? Surely not.

Liverpool haven't lost any international break.

That's what I was saying, Carragher. People are saying, where's he gone?

He don't come.

Can you bring him up?

No, someone just... I haven't had my breakfast.

What's that, a bacon sandwich? Yeah. With what? Brown or red sauce? It's got to be brown sauce.

I'm waiting for brown sauce.

Is it brown?

You're waiting for brown?

Yeah.

I've got to have red sauce.

Is it red sauce, is it?

Nah, brown.

Is that the...

Nah, ketchup.

Ketchup?

No, it's brown sauce. I'd go brown.

Brown? What, brown sauce? Ant and I was at a wedding thing. H&P. Forever want like brown sauce. Ketchup.

Oh, congratulations on the Premier League. What was it, the Hall of Fame? Yeah, it's good, that. Took the heat off you for a bit, didn't it?

LAUGHTER

I thought it was one of them politics things, where you get all this shit thrown at you. What did he call it? A dead cat. Get something out there, let's divert the news.

That's why we took you off for a month.

So who votes for that?

It's the 24 previous winners.

Oh, so not the public?

No.

Oh.

No, it's the 24 previous.

So basically, all the Man United lads who were already there.

James, don't take it away from me. We done it at the same time, man.

Yeah, I'm just saying.

We haven't done it at the same time.

You're going to vote for them.

You're going to vote for him. So stick to football and the Hall of Fame is a bit of a United monopoly. Who's in it?

No, James, you're belittling Gary's team.

I'm trying to work out who voted for it.

It was 24 votes.

How many Man United lads?

I don't know how many are in ROD, innit? There'll be a few.

Who's in it? Eric in it? I don't think Eric's in it. I think Eric's in it. Is he not? Yeah, I think he is.

Scholes is in it.

Scholes is in it.

That's one vote.

Smikey, that's Peter in it. I think he might be.

Rio.

Rio, yeah. You take it up the names there. Yeah, I think Rio might be. Jill's in the jungle. Yeah. Doing Jungle? Doing Jungle Extra? Oh, shit. I missed you. You missed you?

I missed you. Yeah.

What's happened to Liverpool, Cara? Not an urgy voice.

Yeah, Cara, we're not... I go into hiding when Liverpool don't win.

I thought people were joking about that, but you genuinely do.

You think it's a crisis, no? Yeah. Yeah.

You think it is a crisis? I hear people say, is it a crisis? Is it not a crisis? I think it's a crisis.

If you lose 7 out of 10, is that a crisis?

I feel that's a crisis. For the champions, for the champions.

That's pretty boring.

Yeah, it might be.

Why has it happened, do you think?

Why has it happened? Oh my God.

It's a million things, isn't it?

Yes, it's a Bavariette.

Butter.

To be fair, it's not spectator sport, is it? Carro eating a bacon butter.

That done Edmund, the band.

LAUGHTER

Stick to Football is brought to you by Arm Clothing.

Would United finish above Liverpool this season? I don't think so. You're desperate for that, aren't you, Cosimo?

I don't think they're ready for a black superstar. I sent a message to Jude saying, listen, my friend, be ready.

How can we be in a situation where Anthony Joshua is fighting a YouTuber but he's never fought Tyson Fiore?

On the rails.

Oh, they're doing an arsehole.

I think it was a little bit over the top, though. What, at the end? Just a celebration, I thought he was actually qualified, I was like...

You had to check the table. Would that be good wages, then?

He'll tell you, you're on four, weren't you? Yeah, but I was a much better player, I was. You got £3 million, basically.

Is that what that was? And that Liverpool, that would have been cash obviously, wouldn't it? Of course. I've still got it!

Right, let's get back to Liverpool then. So he said, but surely Liverpool pound for pound can just take people on punch for punch and just win more games. I don't understand why they're not...

I like the way they were playing in the first few weeks. Listen, there's probably so many things. What are we going to just repeat ourselves? We probably all said there at different times. Was Salah ever going to have the same season? Again, he was possibly going to have.

Canarta, he's fell off a cliff. You know, things like that make a big difference. Sometimes he plays three games. So I think there's lots of little things. But you know what, if we're being totally honest, when you actually look at the games they've lost and the type of games they've lost, they can't handle the physicality of the Premier League this season.

They can't. When you think of teams that lack something, they normally let you down away from home against teams who have a physical game, if you like, and a physical nature. And they've gone missing too often in away games, the Feyenoord, Anfield.

I think the record, they only lost one, which is the Man United game. I think they lost 22 at home, I think, in the Premier League. So the Feyenoord at home, they've got the fans with them, they feel comfortable.

Homers?

Yeah, Homer. So, with the... But they're just lacking a little bit of... I don't think...

Arnie Sops wanted to move Liverpool. Oh, thank you. You're on red, aren't you? Yeah, but you...

even though they won the league, he always talks about every game sort of went to the wire, the only one by the odd goalie, he almost wanted to have more football, more goals, more entertainment. He loved... When you hear him speak about Paris Saint-Germain last season, it's like, oh my God, that's the football I want,

that's the... I want it, that's amazing. Even last week when he's playing. So when he played Man City last week, he's talking about Pep like he's his hero. Do you know what I mean? And he is probably, isn't he? For probably a lot of coaches. That's his football and I think the Premier League,

he's trying to push Liverpool even more this way. And I think the Premier League's actually probably gone back in terms of physicality. So his team's probably a little bit weaker. And the Premier League's now everyone's just giant, set pieces, long throws, and the team can't cope.

How is he gonna fix it, Jamie?

I'm not sure. I don't think this group of players is equipped to win the league this year, even with the points and how far behind. You look at the difference in the Champions League, they look fine. You know, Wirtz, all his best games have been in the Champions League, haven't they?

But I think they'll have to recruit more physical players, and that's when I look at actually...

You mean in January or the end of the season?

Maybe even January, because I've just seen the Semenyov thing came up and obviously he's got a link with the Richard Hughes who was at Bournemouth but when you actually look at him as a player, lightning quick, big, powerful, Liverpool don't have a lot of pace really when you think of the wide areas, Sarra's not a fly machine, Gakpo's not really but I just think maybe more physicality in the team, more pace,

more power.

They'll regret that decision as well at Kehe in the summer won't they? Oh it's a bad mistake. That looks worse now, the more you look at it. Can I ask you, in all of the places as well, any decision?

I think it was... Liverpool are known as being really smart in the market, and I get that, and not paying over the odds, and really good at selling, but this thing of, like, he's only got a year to go, we've got you by the town halls type of thing, on the last day of the window you have to give us £35 million and they pull out of it. And you just think, that could

cost them. I think if Liverpool don't sign a centre-back in... How long am I taking to open this f***ing thing? I was trying to think, what's that in your hand? I think if Liverpool don't sign a defender in January... They're starting to chat with Link? I think they could.

Would United finish above Liverpool this season?

I don't think so. You're desperate for that, aren't you, because... Not just because, because he got ridiculed, didn't he, for his predictions. So I'm well aware every week he's on the phone to people at Sky saying,

well, what did Cara say in the predictions, what did he say? Well my predictions as we've established in the first day of Monday Night Football are more accurate than yours over time, but I actually think this season you're in a bit of trouble.

Oh Karrar, what am I going to lose my job or something?

What was your predictions, Jack? Well, he had Liverpool winning the league. I had United in the top four, didn't I? They could sneak in to fifth.

You can't. You do this every year.

LAUGHTER

Do you think they could finish fifth?

And get the Champions League?

I said they should finish in Europa League position. No, they won't finish fifth.

LAUGHTER We're just waiting for James to finish eating.

Let's move off of a pool. If we move off, is there anything else you've got to say on that?

Oh no.

We had to just catch up with you for five weeks.

Yeah, because you haven't been about, yeah.

And people have been worried about you and just concerned that you've been not going on for the wrong reasons. You're a show-up type of guy. You know, the accusations have been that maybe you don't turn up. But we were fighting your call. We were fighting for you.

We're losing, but we're fighting for you.

This episode of Stick To Football is brought to you by Armed Clothing. Scotland.

Brilliant.

How good was that last night?

It's like even Ireland the other day with Troy Parrott. That's what it's about, isn't it? Football's about it. That's unbelievable that was. I've had that feeling watching two countries, like nothing to do with me,

but that feeling of happiness from them. It's just unbelievable.

I do think, and I'm thinking maybe from an English perspective, when Ireland or Scotland and Wales qualify for the tournament, I genuinely feel a little bit of happiness with it. Do you feel the same? I feel like there's a warmth of, yeah, I want them there. It's not patronising, that.

I know what you mean. I like Scotland and Ireland a lot more than Wales. I think... Don't worry, it's about Wales.

What have you got against the Welsh?

I've got nothing against the Welsh. I'm happy when they qualify. You always think, obviously, particularly Ireland, you think they'll bring something with their support. Same with the Scots. Yeah, they'll bring something special.

Have they done so?

Have we had goal in this football?

Remember, were you part of the England team when Wales celebrated when England got knocked out? Were you captain then?

Yeah, I was on the coaching staff as well, maybe there's something from that.

What happened? Is that what it is, Wes? No, just...

No, it was him...

I think they celebrated when we went out.

They were in the hotel, weren't they?

Yeah, they weren't playing with us.

They filmed themselves and we got knocked out.

Oh, right. And then they went further than us, didn't they? Yeah. They've got to do that though. No, they did great.

I mean, I wouldn't celebrate Wales going out

or Ireland going out or Scotland going out.

I don't think we would. Because I think, I always remember when I was a kid, sort of growing up, I used to always think of the Everton players playing for like Kevin Shearie to do well and openly did well. And it wasn't until I was about sort of teenager, me dad or just someone saying to me, they hate us, they hate. But I still can't not like that.

You know what I mean?

I always want them to, yeah, I just want them to go through.

We're doing history here.

They say we're United, but it's Mark Hughes

and Norman Whiteside, Joe Jordan, Gordon McQueen, players that played for United that were Irish or Scottish or Welsh, loads of them. You wanted them to do well.

But the week Ireland... Scotland obviously qualified brilliant. But for the few days Ireland had, still a lot of work to be done.

Yeah, I think it was a little bit over the top though.

What, at the end? But do you know, Wayne... I get it, but a little over the top.

When the... Just to sell the pitch. I thought he'd actually qualify, I was like... You had to check the tables.

Ireland, you thought Ireland qualified as well.

I thought, but I didn't want to feel bad.

The only thing I'd say about that, Wayne, Ireland has been so bad from the last few years and to get to win in Hungary, last kick of the game, a lot of work to be done still to qualify, obviously. But no, I wouldn't begrudge him that moment. That's when these teams who have been struggling for so many years to get a bit of a lift for the country and to get two back-to-back big wins,

to beat Portugal, which was obviously huge to give a chance.

No one fancied them.

And then to go and beat Hungary and knock them out and you qualify for the playoffs, last kick of the game. It's massive that. and the players and the manager. I wouldn't begrudge him, honestly. Enjoy that moment.

I love, Roy, you're talking about, I think in the international, we end up talking, maybe even in the show, so we're talking about Troy Parrott, we're talking about Kenny McLean's goal, you know, Keirin Teamey's goal.

So if we're on this show or different TV shows, we're talking about the top teams in the Premier League all the time, these big players, and players who just haven't got careers where you're not quite sure where they are. You mentioned to me before, Troy Padderton in playing in Holland now.

But I think it's brilliant that players

who aren't at the absolute peak of the Premier League.

You go through a lot of the Irish players, a lot of them are obviously a living in the Premier League. And they would have obviously, a lot of them would have grown up watching Ireland, maybe going back to the years and seeing a little bit of success. So why can't they, it's their moment.

Yeah, and I love that.

They've got to enjoy it. They've got a big job to do. And they're not real superstars, I suppose, at the moment.

But they're making a living. I love the fairy-telling in both of those. Even with the Scots, I loved it. Watching it and just feeling, is this going to happen? And then it happens. It was a moment, wasn't it?

What you're thinking about is the sucker punch that could come.

Yeah, no, I get it what you said. I understand that, but I just think it was a little bit too much.

I think to beat Portugal in Hungary is like... It's a freak really. And knocking Hungary out, to go and win in Hungary. Hungary 2-1 it with 10 minutes to go. And a draw would do them, so they probably didn't know what to stick or twist. So for Ireland to find that, and Ireland have struggled over the years,

particularly away from home, you always think there's a big result in them, maybe at home, but to go and get the back-to-back wins.

And obviously they'll need another, from home. So that's the challenge for them. I think you could get lost as well in, because England, we qualify. You can't really take it as, look, we qualified this time, I can't remember which game it was.

Yeah.

You know, you look at Ireland and Scotland and the trouble they've had to try and qualify, finding the players to get to the levels to try and beat these teams. And even the games that Ireland had, no one would have fancied it. Yeah, exactly. The start of the campaign. I think that the reason why they would celebrate like that, and I was celebrating alongside them, is because you could feel a genuine shift in something. Something's happened for them and they've achieved something there. Obviously, Scotland are going to the World Cup,

and Ireland, hopefully, they'll get there, but you feel like something's happened.

I'm up for that. And in Ireland, there's so much competition with sport and the rugby have done really well. So the soccer's fallen way behind, a lot of problems financially, loads of issues going on. So the whole country needed that lift. And at least they can enjoy it for a few months now

because obviously the play-off's on till March.

The Irish in New York.

The draw. Wow. The draw, you need a bit of luck with the draw. The one team I don't want to go to Poland. Wales, obviously, the playoffs, and Northern Ireland as well.

So, yeah, it'll be interesting. I draw tomorrow. It'll be exciting. To be fair, we take it for granted with England, but we shouldn't. Because, I mean, you'll remember, obviously, we didn't qualify back in 2000... 2008.

We should take it for granted when you how easy and how comfortable they're making it, this current group.

That's what you miss, don't you? You miss their moments, what Scotland had last night with England. Group games now, you know England's going to qualify, it's quite boring. Like the last two games England played...

But the consistency.

Yeah.

But not to concede a goal, not to con him a little bit of credit for that, of course. What do you think about England in respect of what are their… I mean we know they've got a brilliant group of players. It's like he's got embarrassment of riches in certain positions. Where are we at with England in terms of sort of what are the challenges that Thomas Tuchel's got leading up to the World Cup? What are the things that he needs to just address?

Because obviously they're in a great place. loads of strength and depth. There's not going to be this big shock that someone's going to be left out. I don't think he's got 26 players, so 22 sometimes. Just injuries now between now and the end of the season.

Just say something happened to Kane or something like that.

Left back, centre-halves, the centre-back position, I think left back and left side.

Who starts at left back? Obviously, he's got Livermanto, he's got Miles Lewis-S Skelly, you've got Nico O'Reilly, he's got Jed Spence. Who do you think he's, I think he's going for Jed Spence, as he says, if Jed, I think.

I reckon, I think he'd go for Livermanto.

Do you think so?

You want a left footer there?

Even Miles backing him, I'm not just saying, you can invert as well, but like,

you probably, I think he young Siddy kid done all right. He's done brilliant. I think he's got a big chance for Siddy. I think if Push comes to shove. He's a big strong boy as well. I think if Push comes to shove in a proper game, where he needs, because his centre-backs are probably one of the weaknesses in the team,

I would probably say. I would say he's gonna think he's more solid and stable than maybe the other three.

What a defensive unit.

You might bring a right back, as you say, who can play left back. So Jed Spence does that or Livery-Mentor, but I think Livery-Mentor is a better player than Spence. No, footballers, they're all three of them better players than Spence. I just think if he said to him, stick to someone who's a good right winger for another team,

I think he may put him in a game whereby push comes to shove.

I'd like to see that, simply because if he picks Spence, it's because he knows that Spence can do it. You know, he can play right and left.

Who would you go for righty at left back? If you said that there's a big game… If the World Cup was next week, you're talking about. If the World Cup was next week... Forget the group games, because I honestly think in the group games, England could sort of breeze through a couple... I'm talking about when it comes to that proper game that's going to come quarterfinal,

could be second round, could be semifinal. Well, that one game where you think, this is a proper game, yeah. It's probably, would it be Stones and... Konza?

No, Gay, wouldn't it?

Gay? You think Stones and Gay will play?

Yeah, I think so. I'd probably say he'd go for Livermento. I'd probably go for Livermento.

Are you talking about like a semi-final, be Francis... I'm talking about who is going to be his back foot in that game where you think, right, we're going to need to be a bit more solid because we've got a lot going on up front, we can score goals, but who is going to keep that clean sheet? Who is going to be that, you know, England... But is that not the problem in terms of what you're saying there is you're thinking about playing a big team and we're thinking about stopping them. to cause them problems so we can go forward, maybe have a better balance, actually being on the ball. Whoever that left-back is is probably going to struggle

to play from that position because he's on his weak foot. I've played left-back as a right-footer.

What about Miles Lewis Kelly as a left-back?

He'd have a chance.

He's the best left-back I've seen in the last 18 months. But he's got to get play in the Bernabeu last year.

Unbelievable, yeah.

Real Madrid.

So who are you starting at left back?

If Miles Lewis-Skelly got to what I saw last season, I'd start him.

Okay, who are you starting at left back?

Miles Lewis-Skelly now. Yeah, I wouldn't disagree with that, but I think O'Reilly could surprise everybody. Was I? I'd go Livermanto. I think he likes Livermanto. That's the thing. I think he likes him as long as he's fit.

I'd go for O'Reilly, but I think he might revert back to him.

You said Jed Spence?

No, I said I think he will go for Jed Spence. I think he might just revert back to being a bit more solid and thinking that he needs that sort of... I'm not convinced for Spence.

I don't think Jed Spence will go.

You don't?

You don't think he'll go even as a... I think Kane's going.

If he gets injured...

Who?

I just don't know where they're going.

Kane's goals now are getting to a ridiculous... But if you get to India, I just don't know where anyone go. You walked closely with Kane, didn't you? Anyone I've ever... When I speak to who we walk with, our coaches are people who... They speak so highly of Roy, honestly. He's a power and he's a fierce...

Like, a massively fierce determination. Like, he's not... He's hard. You're almost like... I've obviously played with Shearer, who's got that sort of like sense of mentality of just like a brick, just solid as a rock all the way through. Kane, I mean, Kane when he played for England when I was there

was not the football player that he is now. I mean, the football player he is now has evolved in the last eight or nine years, but his character, he was young at the time, relatively young to what he is today, but you could see there was just a meeting I remember. I think I remember it was around, there was a tragedy that happened and we were playing France and there was a suggestion to swap kits.

I tell you what it might have been, something had happened in France. It might have been the concert, the Paris attacks, and there was a suggestion that France would play in their blue kit and we would play in the away French kit. Harry Kane, I think it was 21, 22 at the time, said no we're playing in the England kit. He said we'd never ever go out onto that pitch without the England kit

and I always remember he wasn't the captain, he wasn't in the leadership group at that time. I thought, ooh.

I think I was the captain, I didn't know.

I can't remember it had happened, it'd come from the media or it'd come from the FA. And I remember him just saying, in a very quiet manner, no, we're playing our England kit. We go out there and we're playing. And I just thought, do you know something, just a little thing, obviously he was a great player then as well, he was a great goal scorer.

His training, his always say to him, you watch him, you watch some people, you know they do that shooting and they just shoot. He's never shooting just for shooting. The goalie's either making a great save or it's going in, in that moment. I think to myself, that's what a centre forward

who's just about to play, that's how sharp you should be in that particular warm-up session everyone's watching

and he's always on point. He's a proper character. I mean, Waz, I think you said something about a year ago maybe that you think he could be the greatest England player ever, which is a massive statement when you think of Sir Bobby Charlton and, you know, Bobby Moore, yourself, Kevin Keegan, Brian Robbs, all the amazing, Gazza, David Beckham, all these players that are played. You said Harry Kane.

Yeah, I think... a player, you said Harry Kane. Lineker, Scherer. Lienker, Scherer. Get my guys, bro.

That's true, Scherer, Lineker, all those great players.

I think just his goals he scored and as you said then, his performances. He'll go on and get the caps record as well. You'd imagine the caps he's on. I just think how he's evolved as a player is incredible. It reminds me of Cristiano when he was younger. Sometimes he's in a mad angle and he's shooting and you're like,

what are you doing shooting? He might take and pass it, but as you said then, it doesn't bother him. He'll try it again and he'll keep going. And bolt right and left foot. I just think for me he's the best player, England player.

I do, I absolutely love him. I think he's a little bit underrated, even though we're talking about how great he is. And there was always that thing about trophies, wasn't there? Do you think that's why people think that? I think an interesting one,

right, I know you've just mentioned it, you know, Shearer was almost like the centre guy and he's most goals in the Premier League. And I think if you ask most people up and down the country, Shearer or Kane, I think the majority would go with Shearer. For me, I've always been Kane. Shearer's amazing. But I don't know what you can say against Kane.

He's gone to Bayern Munich and he's getting like Ronaldo, Messi level. He's broke their records. Yeah, and it's like, he's gonna get more goals and caps than sort of, Linekar, Scheeder, Jimmy Greene, you know, or the great you. And it's like, what hasn't the lad done?

What can you throw at him?

You know, people say he didn't win a trophy, I should say. There is a big club bias. Having played for Liverpool, Arsenal and United, if you don't play for one of those three clubs, and I saw this when I was with England, I think it was Femme was the manager and I think it became apparent. You don't get the same... I don't know what it is because he's not won the trophy,

he's been with bit off of radar. There's an element of that. It's a big club bias. It's an element of snobbery, but he's definitely getting... I think you play for Liverpool, United or Arsenal, you've certainly got more scrutiny. You've got more publicity. You've got more PR.

You've got more just noise around you, whereas actually Tottenham can play against Brentford at home and that game might go a little bit unnoticed. No Arsenal, Liverpool or United game really goes unnoticed. And Tottenham are a massive club but just don't have that same level as obviously those three. Do you think that could be a bit of it?

Yeah, there could be something in that. And I actually think, there's this thing about Kane and probably Ash Uwain, you're probably better than most of us to answer that in terms of in the biggest game. So I think there's a lot of Cup finals maybe he hasn't scored enough. Maybe that's that one thing, if he could win the Champions League for Bayern Munich,

get the goal in the final or something. Is that something maybe you look at yourself? You've been there and scored in Champions League finals. Would you look at that?

But I think he's probably been in the underdog team in the finals. I think when you play Liverpool in the Champions League final. You weren't expecting Tottenham to win. I weren't expecting Tottenham to win the game. Yeah, you could throw that at him, but I just think, what he's doing.

His numbers just override all of that, you think. His numbers, because we consider most people... He's football, right? His game now is unbelievable.

But then, Ronaldo, Ronaldo... If you're trying to compare a strike or something,

you do have to look at numbers. Them stats are pretty... His numbers are amazing. So sometimes you have to talk about, has he not scored these finals or he's played for Spurs? Yeah, all this is part of the conversation.

But look at his stats for goals. It's just... Speaks for itself really. I agree, I think the numbers he's gotten is incredible.

The thing I love about him as well is after... I know he's been top goalscorer in the World Cup, wasn't he? But sometimes you watch him in tournaments and he can look a little bit sluggish, I think sort of the end of the season, the heat, pitches are a bit dry, you know what I mean? He can look a bit sluggish and he gets written off a little bit after a tournament like, okay, we've got to move on from Kane.

And he's just there again, isn't he? The next tournament, he's just like, there's no one else. No one's taking my place.

What age is he now?

He's got that mindset, hasn't he?

Yeah.

That mentality. holiday the last two games. He's got that winter break this year for Bayern I think that was helpful. There is an element of towards the end there's definitely a thing that towards the World Cup he has at times tailed or before tournaments he has tailed towards the end of a season that this is definitely his better period my feeling is having sort of worked with him that he does tend to because he's put so much he played every game never misses he gives everything in training every day. There's an element of mental and physical tiredness coming towards him.

If he can get that win to break...

Why doesn't he step back from playing every game? For example, for England. England play the lesser teams, I'm all about friendlies.

Why doesn't he sit out some of them?

You're scoring those goals.

We're talking about Ronaldo, Messi, one player in every game. We give him a thumbs up for that. But if you're unable to peak at the right time, then there has to be an element where you go, you've evolved your game, you've obviously gone to Bayern and maybe diets and different types of training and he's playing for the best team over there. So it's not like Spurs, he's probably getting more chances.

He's maybe not working as hard to get back. Just sit out a couple of these games and make sure you're ready for the more important matches. I give him a thumbs up for wanting to play every match. Ronaldo's the same, the Mercedes boys are fantastic,

but there must come a point where you go, we're just going to ease you for one or two games.

Right, I think that should have come from Tuchel.

I think the last two England games, I don I think he should've just left him out. Coming from you, though, I find that a bit rich, because... Yeah, no... If a manager tried... If someone tried to have a word with you, I remember towards the end of your career with England, if Roy tried to have a word with you to say,

look, you know, you were never accepting that, you would never accept not playing, he won't either. That's where I know Harry Kane wouldn't have, but I think that's where the manager's got to take control of it.

Is that a lack of respect to the staff? Yeah, but then you get the newspaper aspect of it. I say, he's trying to rest Wayne, Wayne doesn't want to rest, Wayne Rooney defies manager.

No, but I think if he actually sits him down,

he's experienced enough now, obviously, to understand...

He never disrespected managers, but what he did say is, no, I'm playing. He would just be, I want to play. That's disrespect.

That's fucking disrespect.

It's not disrespect.

If your manager says to you, you're not playing,

and you say you're playing.

But, Roy, you probably we're a bit older and a bit wiser now, you have to sometimes say to a player about looking at the bigger picture.

I've been resting...

We're on about missing the odd game. I'm not saying leave more players.

I don't disagree with you, but certain characters...

For example, England will have two friendly games before the World Cup, won't they?

Yeah. Two friendly games. It's not just the physical stuff, it's the mental side of it. And then you give another player an opportunity. Sorry, Wayne, you give another player an opportunity to say, listen, if he is missing, you'd be ready. It's that easy.

That happened. I got rested in the League Cup final against Aston Villa. Got rested in the FA Cup semi-final against Everton. When he was in the squad.

How old were you then, Wazza?

14. Mid-20s. Mid-20s. Mid-20s. Because we had Champions League games coming up.

He had school the next day.

I know, I was like, I'm still scoring goals.

Next week's all.

This episode of Stick to Football is brought to you by Armed Clothing. Right, I want to draw towards, on Instagram the other day, and obviously there's a lot of hoo-ha around Bellingham, and I think you're absolutely right. There's a comment that you made off the back of a story that was brewing around Jude Bellingham being unhappy.

You said, they need to create this kind of beef because there's nothing else to talk about until the World Cup so it's going to be all the way to the World Cup. They hate that they can't get to him. They hate that they can't negatively influence his club career like they have done with so many before him. A blessed young man with talent and love in abundance."

When you said they hate that they can't get to him, what do you mean?

They can't... Look, his parents have kept him away from the Premier League. He doesn't play in the Premier League. They kept him away from the journalists. They can't get to him through, like I said in there, through his club, like through Real Madrid, so they can try and taint the way Real Madrid's thinking and say, yeah, we're going to keep him in line and that.

They cannot get to this guy, and this is somebody who is very much an achiever. He goes out, he's a winner, he wants to do it, he wins. What they said about Jude not celebrating that, it was complete fabrication, a lie. So what they're trying to do, they're trying to build something because England have qualified so easy, they've not conceded any goals,

they've won all the games easy, so they need to have something else to pile on top of the narrative. You know, you've got a manager who's very, very honest in everything he says, we spoke to him, he's him the question. I said, are you worried about, or have any regrets about your honesty

and giving so much detail? He said, no, because I said the same thing in there. So they know that, them journalists will know that, and they will try to ask him something that he will answer that they can run with again. And I'm worried for Jude simply because

he's somebody that they can't control. You can't control him. Obviously, coming off of the Uwe Olsson, what he done in the World Cup, he's showing people that, you know, I'm here, I'm black, I'm proud, I'm ready to go. All that vibe is something that a certain man can't deal with.

I agree with you. A personal experience, and I've spoken about this in 2016, that Raheem Sterling came to see me in the tournament that it was unfair and it was basically not relating to football. And I remember at the time me giving him a completely and utterly inadequate answer and I've spoken about this publicly since where I said, look, Raheem, it's because of your quality and who you are and what you are that they're criticising you.

I remember they did this with Wayne Rooney, I actually name-checked him. They did this with David Beckham, they did this with Paul Gascoigne, the best players, the biggest names. But actually what I didn't read at the time and to be fair what he was actually crying out and asking me for help for was around the fact that this wasn't relating to his football performances, which it was with maybe yourself or with Gazza or with Becks.

It was more around the colour of his skin and this persecution around how if he had a car that was this and another player had a car that was this that was white, there was a difference in reporting of it. Do you think that is happening again in front of our eyes here?

You know something, I remember saying I had to do something for GQ not long ago and I said I don't think as Englishmen, there's certain Englishmen, I'm an Englishman, I can't hide from that. Even though when I was younger people would say,

yeah but you're not really English, I'm like yeah I just said. He goes out there, he performs, he does what he does. He says, who else? It's too uppity for these people. Something that they used to say back in the day,

if you're a black guy or a black man who's, I can, you know what, I'll put it in a football term. So everybody, they love N'Golo Kante. He's a humble black man, gets on with what he's doing. I'm not saying that he's an Uncle Tom or anything, just saying that's how his personality is. But if you get a Pogba or a Bellinum and you get that kind of energy,

that does not sit well with the people, that kind of person. So someone like Jude, for some reason, frightens these people because of his capability and the inspiration he can give. It's something that you're taught when you're, as a black man, when you're going out there,

you just want to try and do the best you can and keep your head down and be, what, for want of a better, a humble fucking slave. This is where this is coming, this is dragging up from that kind of energy. Because if you are outspoken, black,

and doing that kind of, playing to that kind of level and not caring, that frightens certain people. And that's what's gonna happen with Jude. This guy who I'm telling you about in respects of, he's obsessed with him, he's moving off of that energy. He can't look and see a black man doing what Jude's doing

and think that that's not uppity. He's not an uppity n****. That's where I'm going with that. That's where that comes down to.

I mean, that's some speech that righty. And I think it does definitely, because I remember with Raheem coming to see me, placing it back into, I was thinking, right, I've got to pick him up because he was low.

It's very hard.

He was really low. He was down on, for him to come. Because he don't know where to go. There's nowhere to go. And he had nowhere to go. So he comes and sees me and I've not got the ability, the probably education or the understanding to be able to give him the answers and the understanding that he was coming to me with. And I remember at the time, and it only actually, I remember seeing,

it was something on X a year later where it showed an article, the articles on Rahim where he had a car, house, jewellery, a watch, and articles about a white player and what the headlines were and the difference and you could see this complete and utter bias that just right, now I get what he means. I only saw it a year or so later,

but that's something that I can see at the moment, it is happening with Jude Bellingham.

You know what, again, it's a tiring thing, it's a tiring exercise to talk about, and I sent a message to Jude, right, saying, listen, my friend, be ready, you know, I feel something, you can feel it.

When was this, right?

Before the England game. This just now? Yeah, before the England game. And I just said, just be ready.

Well, it's good that you can help him, right?

Well, the thing is, you know what the thing is, though? And I'd say, and maybe, you know, of course it's private, but he said, ready for what? And I said, listen, it's coming and I'm here. I'm going to be here. because what happens is that it just comes and it just keeps coming, it's like a tsunami. And unless you play well and do something to kind of,

and that just shifts it for a little while because as soon as you play again and you don't play well, it comes back. And so he said, Woskar, I said, just be ready for it and it's here.

It's funny with Bellingham, I think the older we are and the more we're sort of away from the game. If you don't know players, maybe obviously you've got a bit of a relationship with you, but we don't know players that well. 22 as well, you know. 22. But he's the one, right?

Sometimes we'll see players, won't we, around the interview areas, or they might join us and that. And when we do Champions League stuff for CBS, now and again, if you go on the road, you go in the mix zone, and players have to do interviews, you know, it's contractual.

And when I read reports about Bellingham, sort of how he's perceived or how he's supposed to be around the camp, and I'm not just saying this, What you're saying is he is the best player who sort of speaks to me. He asked me about my son, how's he doing? He knows where he's playing, how he's doing for Malta.

You'd have a laugh, a joke, and he looks genuinely interested in speaking to you. It's not just like, oh yeah, sort of moved on. So you read things, and that probably does influence people. We know that, how powerful the press are. And listen, we're part of the media as well, we shouldn't forget that. But he is completely different when I see him face to face

than what I read about. He is an absolute diamond.

You know, it's a shame because I think that his parents, they read The Room very well. They don't speak to no journalists again. It's everything what you're not…

It's a bad thing because… You know what?

Remember Dez, Dez was on… Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Dez said the same.

But would it help if they did?

To see the other side…

Then what, Suz? Then you have to have somebody who will go to him and then that guy holds you to, Yeah, but he doesn't need to do that. No player really wants to do it. But I'm just saying if they could see the other side...

Not because...

Obviously, they have to do it when they're in Europe. They have to do it because they're contract-wise.

And James is just saying...

But speak to the journalists.

Yeah.

Most footballers I know don't really want to speak to journalists, but they think it's part of their job. Is that enough? I'm just saying we don't see the other side to the kid, you know what I mean, that James just spoke about. And maybe that would just help that, instead of getting bogged down by what the media are chasing and trying to append the image of the kid.

Well, maybe you look at it from the parents, they're not fussed about how he has to deal with it, they just want to keep that away from him.

And that's fine, of course.

Which is their choice, obviously. Go on. Well, how... Jude Bellingham is definitely England's biggest star. He's playing for Real Madrid. He's the biggest talent. So naturally, I think journalists are going to ask about the fact that Thomas Tuchel is leaving him out of the team. That's natural, I think, because he's such a...

It's that balance, isn't it? And that fine balance of being able to make sure that you can ask the questions about the football where it doesn't become a persecution. And that's what I think you're talking about, isn't it?

Without a doubt. You know the thing as well, I don't think Jude's got any problem with Morgan Rodgers being the number two. He's got to dislodge him because Jude will believe he can dislodge him. And you'd like to think that Morgan Rodgers would say, That's how England end up winning the World Cup, is that great players have to wait their turn, and when they come in... Yeah, competition, but anyway.

Thank you, Royce. So Jude ain't got no problem with that, but it's all just the fluff around it to try and build more onto that. And then anything happens. Like they say he threw his arms up when he got substituted, and Tuchel said, well. He didn't say that. Yes, he did celebrate with the guys. So that's those little foolishness thing. Those foolishness kind of actions that they're trying to take

is what kind of just slowly builds, like what Jamie said. Seems like a nice guy. But people, like you say, Roy, you read about it, you listen to what you're reading and you think, yeah, he looks like that.

Look at him. Who's not vexed if you get taken off? Who isn't? But you know what you're saying right at the end of the game, you see the clip on social media, you think, oh, Tuchel's maybe having a little pop at Bellingham. But he's getting asked the question, he's getting pushed into that directly, he's got no idea, he didn't really know, did he? As soon as the question's asked, you know, players to be together. And before you know it, it becomes something, doesn't it? But from Tuchel's point of view,

I actually think he's handled it pretty well. In that, I think if you go back to the last tournament, it did feel like it was Bellingham, it was just like all about Bellingham and he was scoring the goals. And it was like, if Bellingham is not playing,

England can't do not. And it probably takes me back to sort of Stevie at Liverpool. And I always remember something Ferguson said about Brian Robb, so when he first come to United, where sometimes you have this figure and everyone feels if they're not playing, you can't win. It's almost like, oh my God, they're not playing.

And I think what Thomas Tuchel has done in the last, yeah, I think no doubt about that But there's also probably this fear in the team as well that If Jude is injured or the manager decides to leave him out, he can still win a game He can still play, he can still have a decent tournament So I actually think it's been really good for Jude

And really good for Thomas Tuchel and the squad over the last couple of months in terms of the selection and who's playing. No one's got a 100% starter, there's other players come in and done well. So I think Tuchel's handled it really well in terms of the selection and sending a message to the rest of the squad.

So if you can get Kane, Rice, Bellingham, Enderson's there as well, Stones. That looks like a really good leadership group. That's got to be together, surely. You're on board Jude, saying,

obviously, it's nice to speak to you and get some advice, but you hope there's other lads in the squad helping, because you forget how young he is. You hope there's Kane and these other lads having these chats. That's where the senior players are so important. If they do see a player who thinks people are after him

for the wrong reasons, not footballing, then hopefully he's getting that help from players within the squad. Surely.

Tell me if you'd like to see your players in the most of it, right? Maybe that's why Henderson's coming. Maybe that's why as well.

When he replies, ready for what? He obviously means he can't see what's coming.

Yeah, because he obviously can't. Because, you know, why would he?

Would you think it's impacting him right now, in respect of the level of tension that he's getting and the scrutiny and the stuff that you're talking about?

No, I don't think so, because I think it's another... I think that Jude's the kind of person that will use that as fuel. But he has, that's what he's done.

He'll use it as fuel, because even the other day, he got married in a match. That was his frustration of coming off, wasn't it? His frustration was being left out of the previous squad and then he starts this game and he hasn't scored. That was his frustration.

He got a player to match for the game. Should have scored in the game, he'd admit that himself. But I think they're trying to portray somebody who's not the person they want him to be in respects of the flash, arrogant, I'm gonna cause problems in the camp, he's not that guy. But he's somebody that is not afraid to say how he feels.

He's not afraid to do the who else. That really rankled a lot of people and what for?

Do you know what the great players do? They do deal with that stuff, don't they? There'll always be that in football and sport. People go after people for the wrong reasons, almost mafia feel with some of the media, they'll chase a certain player, but the top people, and you've experienced it, right, just push that to the side.

Absolutely. Focus on the game.

It's like Beckham, bro. Beckham, yeah, they can deal with all that.

That's what makes them brilliant players. Yeah, I mean, obviously you received scrutiny with England for different reasons than potentially we've just discussed there with Righty on Jude Bellingham, but did it ever get to you, because you're the person around this table that probably received the most scrutiny when you played with England at times?

Yeah, he gets here, of course, and obviously a lot of mine was... Again, because I was controversial and with things I've done probably more off the pitch than on the pitch, and I've spoke about it, it was almost like you were getting bullied and there's not really much you can do about it. So I get what Wrighty was talking about there,

that's why I stayed quiet on it really, but I get it, I understand it, but not from a racial point of view, so I can't really comment on that bit, but in terms of,

I felt like, yeah, you...

But did it affect your under pitch?

Not under pitch, but under pitch is where I just felt... At ease.

...felt safe, yeah. What about on a daily basis, just every day when you wake up, you're ready to go and there's something else?

Yeah, no. Something else. It's horrible and you think more about your family back home, that's what you think more about.

So you were glad of the games? You were glad when the games?

So when the game today, that was the easy part. The games was the easy part, but dealing with it and a constant judgment, basically, that was tough, yeah.

This episode of Stick to Football is brought to you by Armed Clothing. Do you think we're going to have to be more careful moving forward as pundits? I'm not just talking about boats and football, just generally the whole of the actual sort of... You know, I think when I first came into pundish 14 years ago, I think the idea of being very direct about what you would say about a player,

to be fair, was deemed as being sort of, that's what everyone wants. You want the enthusiasm almost like you think of yourself as being knowledgeable about the game, but you're trying to be like a fan in the pub and connect to that sort of football fan. Do you think what we're talking about and how we say things now, we have to change how we do it, don't we, I think?

I'm not talking about the Jude thing specifically, I'm talking about just generally the responsibility of words and what damage they do to players. I said about David Luiz that he was like basically a nine year old being controlled by someone in the, he's like he's being controlled by a nine year old on a PlayStation in the crowd.

I at the time thought it was a great line.

Everybody thought it was a great line. Because it was-

Except David.

No, but you know something, it says that. He actually direct messaged me about four or five years later. I didn't repeat the line, but I sort of said that, you know, there he goes again type thing. And he actually direct messaged me and it had an impact on me because he said, here you go again, my friend. And I thought, do you know something?

He's a human being. That stuck with him. I'm not saying that it was fair. I was trying to think of an analogy of someone at the time. We think about back fours used to be very solid. You didn't used to see sort of defenders charging out and sort of doing things, which is more of an international,

Brazilian, Argentinian, Uruguayan. Maybe sometimes Southern European defenders do that. You know, you think of sort of Laurent Blanc when he came to United. He used to sometimes, you know, do that sort of,

where's he gone? and it catches you by surprise. So you're trying to do it with a bit of humour, a bit of intent, but the impact that that would have had on him

would have gone... I've been pundit and entitled to make a mistake as well, of course, but that's been going on for years. If you remember Luke Chadwick, Chad's came out years later, remember he used to get heavily crit...

He said it really affected his life. No, it wasn't from the fans, it was people on the TV. What was that programme? Oh, sorry. Yeah, you're right.

What's that programme? The Fantasy...

Captain something. Yeah, you're right. The quiz thing. We'd go about it and he said that had a huge effect on him mentally. So, yeah, as pundits, we do have to be careful, but we can't become robots either. I think we're also, we're emotional, we're watching games. I'd hate to be sitting doing a match as a pundit and going,

you know, you do get emotional about games.

But I was critical...

When you move away from the football and it starts getting personal.

But I was critical of Harry Maguire and I kind of, did I cross the line? I apologised to him. So I think as pundits if we do cross the line and you do think you're affecting a player and you've gone overboard, then you do apologise to a player. If you've done it, and I've done it, I'm sure, I don't know if you've done it either, if you think... Because on a match day you get emotional sometimes, you do get carried away and you get frustrated with a player.

It can be, I might be frustrated with Maguire,

but it doesn't mean I don't think he's a bloody good lad or a decent kid. If you think when we were playing, I think of England teams, and you think of the media way then, I think the media, as in the press and the papers, I think is a bit softer now than maybe it was when we were playing with them. It's really over a player after a tournament. But I actually think us, ourselves, are probably a bit more direct than what Pundit were 20 years ago, where it almost felt like...

Maybe they would just look after the mates on the pitch or the manager they knew and so I think we're probably a little bit more on the front. Yeah I think punditry is definitely more punchy and on the front foot and I actually think players would probably be more worried about what we'd be saying than maybe what Mark Dior in the paper is when we were playing it'd be like what's on the back page.

Yeah the journalists, yeah. I think the journalists... And there's a lot more games on the TV now, isn't there?

Yeah, and there's a lot more pundits, there's a lot more TV, there's social media. I don't think players are sort of... I wouldn't say I was worried about the press as such, but there was definitely a feeling around England that more worried about what we say. Yeah, you're talking about Brian Wolno, Stephen Howard, Harry Harris, that sort of group around that time that were deemed, you thought you were being abused, basically, you thought it was bullying,

you felt as though their power was so great.

But actually- Are you giving them the power?

Are you giving them the power by taking so much notice of- The newspapers, so media has changed, Roy. Back then, the newspapers were a phenomenon in terms of, you basically, if you remember the turnip on Graham Taylor's head, or you remember David James getting depicted as something, you think of the big sort of, Steve McLaren,

the, you know. Can I tell you something, Neb? Sorry, don't underestimate the Irish media.

The Irish media are up there with all that stuff.

Yeah.

They too.

Absolutely. I'm sure. They go after people. I've experienced that in Ireland. Yeah.

They go after you. But now I do think the papers are more responsible actually. I think it's actually social media and probably the sort of... You're right. Back when I was playing sort of with England maybe 20 years ago or 15 years ago, I can't even really remember who was on television criticising us

because I don't remember anything standing out. Obviously the Alan Hansen line, if you can't win anything with kids, was a brutal line, but it wasn't a brutal line as in personal. It was more a case of, I don't think you can win things with young players.

I don't think it was that bad.

Remember Des Kelly? He done a piece in his paper. We'd probably say exactly the same. No, but he was... We saw a young team with a young player in the league. Really personal with me to the point, I cried when she read out what I was speaking about. I thought to myself, I don't speak about people, I'll critique what they've done as a forward.

I would never critique the individual, but some of the things that he was saying, even up to this day, you know what I mean? Even now, it's still with me, what he's, some of the things he's said. We do have a responsibility in that way,

because I don't think we do need to go for the individual. You can say anything about what he's just done on the pitch and how he's played. You can say anything. I put terrible pasts from him. You can say things like that. If you're a footballer and you get upset for that, then you're not in the right place.

You should be able to be critiqued about your play and what you've done and if you've got something wrong. But you should never, ever go to personal and going behind the scenes of people, what they're doing, never, ever as a pundit. Yeah, but again, as a pundit,

you've got to bring something to the party. I think if we all sit there as pundits like robots, and just, if we're just there to analyse certain games, you have to bring something to the game as well, don't you?

I don't mean go after players. I remember I had a bit of a banter with Madison. And players can give you a little bit back. I like that. If players take it in the right spirit, if you're going, oh, he's got to do better, he's got to get in the team a bit more, there can be a little bit of humour to that.

I just feel that with the social media, Roy, and everybody is doing something on the... Whoever the team is, it's all about the... the criticising the players and what they've done wrong and how bad they've been. And they garner so much attention through the negative. And this is why I feel like the players are like they are.

But after five minutes, I guarantee if you walked into a dressing room, Wayne, you obviously have managed recently, most players would be on their phones within five minutes. So as much as we're saying, don't take too much notice, sometimes they're chasing that, they're chasing that and almost in a madness, they're obviously looking for good stuff but a lot of times

it will be bad stuff and if the players are the first to start looking for it, there also has to be a response to be the players going, don't, you're not going into that world, you're

looking for trouble and I'm on about within five minutes after a game. even think to go on social media as a player, good and bad. I think you just have to have a complete blanket ban and just stay away from it. Even as a pundit?

It's true. It's true.

I don't look at comments. I can't see comments. I don't look at any like that.

Oh, God.

But if you're a player, why would in five minutes after a game

would you be checking your phone?

Because you're addicted to the love or the hate. You know what I mean? You get so much love, oh they love me, and then you get one person say,

you're a f***ing j***er.

And that's the one you remember and you think to yourself, you've spoiled my f***ing day. Why have I spoiled my own day? Looking at the comments. Turn them off.

Take them off.

Talk about spoiling the day. Super 6 are giving you the chance to win £250,000 this weekend. It's completely free to play. Just predict six scores this weekend and the money could be yours. And don't forget to join our mini league. You must join our mini league using the code S6-STF. S6-STF. Get your Super 6 picks in before 3pm on Saturday the 22nd of November for a chance to win 18 plus TNCs apply.

Oh we had a nightmare.

Did we have a nightmare?

You did.

Of course we did.

I think we only got 20 points.

Do I need to move you?

Yes, you're on that side Wazza.

Oh on this side? Yeah you're on that side, Wazza. Oh, on this side? No.

Yeah, you're on that side.

Seriously, was he looking at...

I wasn't looking at him. I was looking at him.

You know what? I'm going to stop contributing to this because I'm not good.

We had it.

What's that shirt on there, Ben?

Super 6.

Thanks for asking, man. Okay, see, I know the script. Right, Ben, come on, let's go. Super six, let's go. We only got two. We're coming back, Carra.

If you enter the league, you win a signed shirt.

You really sold that, Ben.

Hold it up properly, anyway.

You just...

Beautiful.

I was trying to get some... We was trying to get more Z on our side. Oh

Righty we only got I think we only got two points and that was me

It's Jill's it's Jill's full city beat Liverpool. We miss you Jill, but you're not good at this. What did I have?

Right, I think I'd say a bit of a pull down

Last week Gary and Jamie you got eight point

Top 23 percent of players.

Wow, we're really in front. We're catching us up. We got two. I know we got two. Maximum.

If we got more than two...

Look at Ben, let me see his face.

He's buzzing.

Oh!

Joe Gillanian, you got two.

Oh!

On the rails.

Oh, they're Aransal.

How many points were we in front? I know, but if the league finished today, we'd be champions, wouldn't we? You would be, yeah.

Alright, so...

Okay, so...

It doesn't matter if it's one or two. You know, when you get a medal, it doesn't tell you how many points you want to play.

You're aware with that. 2-1 Liverpool. Yes, they're the home record's good.

2-1.

I don't know. They were the only team to win there last year, weren't they? Yeah.

Why don't we just compete for every one of their scores and we'll win the league by a point?

Next week they'll probably...

Find a way going for it. You fancy Forrest to win at Liverpool? No. That's a meme, that, on Sunday when they said, you know, like, Forrest, do we look Liverpool?

You know what?

If Forrest beat Liverpool, no.

I don't want this.

No, you think it's Liverpool.

So what are you going on for the fact that Liverpool are going to be... Because they're still very good. Forrest will make it very difficult. United beat him, right? Forrest won there last year. Mm-hmm.

United beat him, right?

Forrest won two years ago. 1-1. I think 3-1. I don't want to copy them.

I think 3-1.

3-1.

Right, you two got to do something.

You've got the answer, Spurs. I bet you stink. A Hungarian had to be crawling in your hole.

Bournemouth, West Ham, 3pm. You love Bournemouth.

Bournemouth are winning that. I don't know, West Ham, away from home, sit in, counter.

I like that we have every game. Yeah, Wolves had a back-up.

Come on, what are you thinking?

Come on.

You took 20 minutes for the Liverpool game.

Bournemouth 3-1. Well done, Ben.

Can you just add a brown pen? This is a different one. I like the top. That one. You know, I think you don't want stuff like that. I think you'd either go fully open or just...

I don't like that.

Cheers, mate.

That's the confidence I need to do a segment.

2-1, we'll be born with it.

2-1, we're going to need to be a bit braver.

2-1, 2-1, I like that.

That's great.

You're our next palace at Wolves.

Bournemouth West Ham.

What are we doing, Cara? Bournemouth West Ham? I think if you're right to sign that as well. I'm thinking, yeah. Shall we go 3-1?

Bourne with 2-0.

You can say it now. Bournemouth West Hingham. No, we're 2-0. 2-0, 2-0. Love a brother. That's what I felt like.

Wolves Palace.

I'm like under you because you're the boss.

Is your hand alright, mate?

It looks awful. Yeah, it's fine.

Terrible pen. It should have been a silver pen.

I'm not sure about this game at all.

I couldn't even call. first home game, would I be happy with that? 1-1. Yeah, we'll go 1-1. Draws are no good to them, they need wins.

Yeah, but...

Palace are beating them.

Palace, Palace are all the...

Come on, you eagles.

What do you think?

I think rules are gold at home.

3-1.

Go 3-1 Palace.

3-1.

Wow.

Good wow. It's before the Arsenal game as well. Is Arsenal 8 o'clock Saturday night? No, Sunday 4.30.

Sunday? Yeah, I'm doing the game.

So, are you before the game?

Yes, so if they win...

Are you a bit worried right now?

Oh, he's worried. It's not that I'm worried, but you know,

this is what the league's about now.

It's 16-16.

It's 16-16. Yeah, so if they win... We'll see what happens. 1-1 or 2. Are you a bit worried right? Oh, he's worried.

Yeah, because it's not that worried, but you know, this is what the league's about now. This is what it's about. This is what everyone's saying about how great our squad is. Yeah, it is. But this is when we find out what we're about.

Stop crying it in you, will you? Yeah, but we've got Mosquera. Yeah, we've got to discuss it there. Yeah. This is big if City win this.

I probably would have gone 1-1.

I need to find out somebody else.

I think Arsenal winning at Newcastle was big.

I said exactly the same.

Liverpool have won there, Arsenal have won there.

This is my newspaper column on Saturday. Oh, is it? Can you tell us what it's in there? I just don't want people to think that I've copied you, I've already done that. Yeah, exactly. No, but I just think if Arsenal win the league, I think everyone will just look at that. There'll be obviously other games coming, but that Newcastle game will feel massive. I think if City do, because I think if City win this, I think it puts big pressure on Arsenal going into that game the next day. Because they'll all be a little bit nervous.

Come on, let me see your predictions. I'm not sure City are winning the game. I'm not, I know. 2-2. We can't go draw because they... We can go draw, we go 2-2. What do we want for the Premier League? We want City to win so it juices up Sunday, doesn't it?

Yes.

For us, for Sky.

I like the manifesto.

Sky till I die.

Sky can make, change everything. Yeah, the narrative. If we give City a bit of confidence and they get that done. Go on then, what's the score?

Let's go with City.

We'll go 2-1 City.

Go on, I like that.

I need the two, I'll come with.

Leeds Villa, Sunday 2pm.

Villa.

Ah.

We're going Villa, Calum.

I think Villa.

2-1 Villa. 2-0? 2-0. 2-0? 2-0.

Biller.

I said 2-0.

Yeah.

You think?

Leeds are going down now.

Wow.

They were dreadful against Forest.

I said Leeds were going down after watching them on the first game of the season, even though they'd beat Everton.

I thought, not right, that. I just thought Leeds. This is why I'm no good at them. Why am I giving somebody a goal just because they're at home? Yeah. Jesus Christ.

Could it be the end where Villa goal went 2 or 3 in the early game or they're doomed? Villa away from home? Yeah, Villa. Are we going with Villa, bro? Are we going with Leeds a goal?

You've been struggling to score, haven't you? Don't give Leeds a goal, unfortunately Leeds. I love you but bro. 1-0 Villa.

Is he going to go 1-0?

1-0, yeah we just come up with it.

I always remember your goal there right to the chip.

Do you remember it?

That was a brilliant goal.

Arsenal's 4-0 lead at the time.

Was it one of them?

I know it was 4-0.

What a big goal.

He's talking about a swing. It's not a big goal when it's 3-0. Right, come on, this is the big one. Big one.

3-2.

Oh!

True.

You're giving him two goals. Oh wow.

Gabriel injured.

Yeah, but Mosquero's coming in.

That's alright.

It means you won't score from a corner though.

Arsenal win this all day.

It means you won't score from a corner now.

It'd be a good game. No, I'm not giving Spurs anything. 2-0, Arsenal. You have to give them one thing. 2-0 if they can't score from a corner, with no Gabriel. No, we won't need to set a piece this week. We'll save it for next week or something.

So you think Arsenal will win 2-0?

I'm going 2-0.

I don't think they'll win 2-0. I think it'll be a bit more of a sort of, a bit more scruffy than that. I think it'll be goals. 3-2-e. Yeah, I think it'll be a bit messy.

A bit Lionel? What are you going to do then?

Hmm.

Jesus.

I think 2-1 Arsenal or 3-2. I'd go for it. I can't see Spurs scoring 2.

I know, I think they could, it's that type of game. Arsenal's too strong, the Spurs don't like scoring at home. I didn't see us conceding two against Sunderland.

That's away from home though.

If you go 2-1 then.

Sunderland would have won.

2-1 Arsenal. Right.

Can't believe you're getting it.

He slagged our score off, going,

oh no, I've been them? 2-1, Arsenal.

2-1.

2-2-2-2-1.

The most popular score in football.

Thank you very much.

Rubbish, thank you.

Right, so I was at my mum's a couple of weeks ago.

Oh, yes, you can.

I told you this, I was bringing my contracts in. This is like a sort of, think of it as like a raffle. I'm going to study your contract like you studied mine. So, this is your boot contract and everything, yeah. These are just contracts. Oh, Adidas contracts.

Adidas, when were you with Adidas?

Yeah, I was with Adidas for a period. There's another football contract. 2001, David Gill. Oh, your mate looked after you, didn't he? Yeah. Theodore, the Theodore contract, right? Oh, I see that one, in case you get more than me.

Look at that one.

What did you say?

That was another Adidas contract.

That's horrible.

He said, did you sign your new deal? Yeah. What did you get?

Yeah, so they bring them in.

Let me go to the money bit. It's at the back of the thing. Oh, so... You know when they ask you to sign it, what part of the fucking part is that?

It's at the back of the thing.

It's at the back of the thing.

Looking at the money bit. You need to pull the papers out.

It's very manifold.

Just a little thing.

Someone asked me,

what bring you mind? Why do you keep these or what is it? She went the other week and she was clearing them up. How much did they get paid off the Adora, was there? I couldn't see, man.

What's this one? Euro?

To be fair, I thought you were going to be a lawyer. Last time you came in you said you were going to be a lawyer. So, Neville, you're on 1.75. Am I reading that right? What year was that, Roy? So that, when is that? So that, when is that? So that's... That was 2009.

That's my last contract at the club, but I wasn't... That was on...

This isn't a thing...

I think the signed-on fees are different.

...contract, this one.

It was 1.75, basic.

In 2009?

Yeah.

You happy with that, Jamie?

No.

You think that's... underpaid him?

Overpaid. Under. Massively underpaid.

Oh yeah, 100%. I always was.

Why?

Nobody's saying it, Anthony.

We're everybody's saying it.

Jamie's saying it because he knows he's on double now, on treble.

You could walk into Tergy's office, fair, you improve a little bit. Let me just have a look at that. Let's have a look. So it's 1.7... He's bullied you for 20 years. You should not be...

No, I'm not...

I don't know, Jim.

He got looked down for the last few years. Oh, did he?

That's 2009, that's his last year, isn't it? He had some say on it, Gary. He never once offered me a contract. It was always done via...

So you're saying he doesn't know how much you're going to get?

Jamie, he didn't kick a ball for the last two or three years. He was on that... I mean, if you're not kicking a ball...

What's been signed off for? He was officially retired on his last season. I was on... He stayed around the club for six months getting paid. find it in this contract. Oh yeah, offshore. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Offshore. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, it says here, right, in 2001, let's say,

I'm trying to picture your creation.

2001, so I'm 26, 25, 26.

Prime.

Just won the treble, prime.

Prime, right?

You're on 1.5 million. Listen, I know it's a lot of money and all that, but... A week. So that's, what's that, 30 grand a week?

Yeah.

So in your prime, in 2001, you're on 30 grand a week. I suppose we'll put players in and then... Would that be good wages, then?

He'll tell you, you're on four, weren't you?

I wanted to tell you.

You're on four? Yeah, but I was a much better player, obviously. I'm not debating that.

I'm like the contract runner, but we keep saying, but you kept signing long-term contracts, so you could never do good bad in a position.

I remember. Did you sign a seven-year contract?

Yeah, six years, seven years, yeah. Why?

Because he loves Man United.

Do you know something, Cara? It was never a focus for me. I never, do worried about the money side of it. I thought, if I can get to the end of my career at 35, 36 and go to United, I know I'll be alright. I know I'll be alright. I won't earn as much money by signing this long-term contract,

but I thought, do you know something? That worked for you Gary. My post-football career, I thought being a one-club man, being at United was the right thing to do. When they offered me a seven-year contract at lower money, it was better for me than going for four years or three years at higher money and thinking my contract's going to run out.

Back yourself as a player.

But you get injured. I always thought in a more cautious way that if I got injured or if I got... So this contract...

There's nothing wrong with that, Gal.

Look at you now, look at us. All this because of you, Gal. Just quickly, right?

This contract here, right? So this contract, imagine this contract, right? I've signed for 1.75 million. That's basic though, Gary, isn't it?

Is that including your sign-on fee? No, sign-on fees.

I don't know where it is in there, though. There is a sign-on fee on top of that. Yeah, exactly, you'll remember, was out for a year. And my contract ran for another four years, right? I'm still at Manchester United at the age of 34 because I signed that long-term contract,

because I was out of contract base, because I was injured for like...

So your safety net was perfect, you was right to...

Your tactics worked, yeah, it worked for you, though.

I had to get to the end of my career at United. I couldn't bear the thought, and it's not disrespectful to any other club, because it's an amazing club, I couldn't see myself in another shirt. I just thought it would have made me so unhappy. I just thought I had to get to the end of my career at United.

Jamie, you the same?

What did you earn at the end of your career, though? Double that, treble that? No! I'm thinking you were a man, you had an IT degree with England right back. But was you double that? No, the most I ever earned on a... When you talk about your basic salary, I'm just trying to think now. So when we won the Champions League in 2005,

it was just that time when I was due for a contract, so I went to about 40 grand a week, whatever that was a year, but it was about 40 grand a week. I'd have a signing on fee for about, I had almost four 250 grand things. So it was like a signing on fee was one.

Another one was one if we qualified for the Champions League.

So you were about three million a year.

And another 250 was for paying 25 games in a season, which I always did, I always played like 50 games a season. And the other one was if I played 20 league games. Do you understand what I mean?

So you got 3 million, basically?

Is that what that works out? Yeah.

So you were double what I was on?

And that Liverpool, that would have been cash, obviously, wouldn't it?

Of course.

Double. And no tax.

I've still got it! I've never seen a man carry as much cash as him in my life. Why do you have so much cash?

Showing people your cat suit.

You're too much. You've got so much cash, I don't like it. I've got a gig for you mate.

But you never got paid as much, did you, if you stayed at the club?

If you come through the academy at the club, you never got paid as much, did you, if you stayed at the... If you come through the academy at the club, you never got paid as much as players coming in.

Wayne's been quite about contracts. Yeah, we get yours on the table.

LAUGHTER

He's laughing at you, Derry, wasn't he? You might not want to answer this, but you also might want to take it out, What would your biggest contract have been at United? Biggest... Because I'm your team-mate, basically, 2010-11. I'm on 1.75. I'm captain.

Yeah, biggest, I think, was 17 million a year.

At United? I think I should have got paid a little bit more.

Did you say 1.7 or 7? Yeah. 1.7.

That's amazing. Well done. Congratulations.

Yeah, yeah. It was a different time, wasn't it?

More than Paul.

Paul's still with me as well.

Let's have a chat after, I think I need an agent.

Paul's up there looking good.

All that stuff I said over the years about not needing an agent,

you need a fucking agent.

£17 million, yeah, that's unbelievable, was it?

Wow. It was changing's unbelievable, was it? Wow.

It was changing then, weren't it?

Yeah, absolutely, yeah.

I think so, yeah.

I feel underpaid now.

Roy, what was your biggest one then that you ever had at the end?

Did you get up to five?

Yeah, about five or five and a half maybe, yeah. And that was big, I mean that was huge back in 2003, four, five. Yeah, but I got better, no, I keep saying, but my contract was run, no, a couple of times, so I was in a good bargaining position, whatever.

I could have left a couple of times on a free.

No, the sound was working, you didn't. I did say 17 million, yeah. I'm just checking if everybody's heard it right. Wow! And let's get to my D'Eodora contract. Is this one here?

This says... Andrew, it's this one.

This is Tiger Sports.

Let's see if you earned more than Roy.

Roy, what were you on with D'Eodora?

Oh, God, no.

I wouldn't know. I wouldn't have a clue, honestly. Seriously? With a Nike card?

I don't even know what I was... The boot contracts were just a bit of a bonus, you know what I mean?

Yeah.

But you would have got big money for playing and wearing them in Champions League finals and stuff like that. 2002.

You know the only thing I'd say about that?

I thought I was a moron.

The only thing I'd say about that. What? When you go in with a contract, it's always a bit of a game You're trying to get more for the club, they're trying to get a bit cheaper I get that, but when you think what you did for the club I'm being serious, every week, man Do you not feel like they've almost let you down a little bit? I'm not saying you should be on, you know what I'm saying?

You should have been on more I think they've took the piss a little bit I know something, it sounds crazy now, but even with like... I earn good money now, but if someone offers me a contract, I can't be... Look, if I'm happy, if I'm really happy somewhere,

I tend to just think, honestly...

It's easier to do that, Gary. Especially in what we do now, if you're on good TV shows and they're going well, it's like, you don't want to ruin that. I totally get what you're saying, I get it, but I feel like that's a little bit of a...

You know, when you're defenders, lads, when you're doing contract at a club, have you a different mindset as defenders, truthfully? Would you not be thinking, like, obviously the attackers and midfielders, I know it's wrong, but would defenders feel,

yeah, they deserve more money? because Gerrard was a brilliant player, but other players at Liverpool who were attacking players going... Would you be thinking that at all in negotiations, that we're not going to get as much as them?

Truthfully?

Yeah, I think that the attacking players are the best players, aren't they?

Right.

So yeah, yeah.

But if you've come through the ranks, basically you've cost nothing to the club,

so you could try and make up for that a little bit by going... Obviously good timing for me, I've won the Champions League two years ago They come to you and I'd gone into the training ground in the summer to see the doctor The manager was there and I thought everyone's in a good mood We won the Champions League and I go to see the manager, Vinita And he goes, I need to speak to you about your contract So at that time I was on about £30,000 a week or something like that And just won the Champions League So he said, I thought he said

I don't want to be able to give you any more money And I thought, I've just won the Champions League When I signed that, when I actually signed that contract I broke my leg, I broke my leg I blackbailed when I'd signed that one He said because, he said we've got Zenden coming in on a free

He said we've got to give someone a free I went I'm a fucking free I'm a free, every time I sign I'm a free But that's what I mean, it does get forgetting But when someone comes on a Bosman It's always a free transfer But the local ad coming through You know what I mean, we don't cost anything

They try and take advantage of that I'm guessing

Yeah

Jesus

I'm just trying to imagine your mindset as a defender

Going in and negotiating a deal, and if you've got two or three years left, it is hard to negotiate if the club's going to... You've still got two or three years left. Roy, for me, I used to go in on my own, partly because I wanted to just basically do it myself.

The idea of sort of... We can see that now!

LAUGHTER It was important to me too. It was important I went in on my own. Why? I just... Do you know stuff, and to be fair, I think now it probably stands me in good stead as I get older, and improving what I was doing outside my football, because I was starting businesses and stuff. And I used to think, Joe, something,

the length of the contract was the most important thing. So they would never start off with a seven-year deal. I'd start off with a five-year deal. They'd start off with a four- year deal, five year deal, normal length. I go, no, I'll sign it if you give me a seven year deal at that, but there's a renegotiation clause in after three or four. So I would always say, length of contract

was meaning security. So I knew that when I was 24, I'd sign that seven year deal, they can't kick me out of this club till I'm 31 and I ain't leaving. So I was locked in and I had security. And then at 27, 28, I'd obviously go in again and do it till I was 34.

And it was always for me the most important thing to stay stable. That worked for you, didn't it? It worked for me, yeah. You also weren't given agents, like, percentages.

I was happy to say that as well, Roy.

But I admire Roy for, at the time, which was quite, to be fair, new at the time, No one ever thought in the dressing room, Roy is out of order for going to negotiate his own contract. Even for you, when I look back now, maybe the statement that you made I don't think was particularly great, but I think you were right to push the club and get the best contract. You were the best player in the world. You were absolutely here.

You should have been paid the best money in the world. I actually completely agree with that. I used to think also as a defender, the lads up front, lads in midfield, they were winning us the games every week. They should be on a lot more than I'm on, you know what I mean? I was grateful that they were doing what they were doing.

I used to feel like that. So when they scored a goal, I'd be like, oh my God, what was your best deal? You know what? You're a bit before this.

Yeah, but the thing is, I think when I left to go to West Ham, I think I ended up with about 1.25 million.

That was your highest contract?

Yeah, yeah.

Because at Arsenal all the time...

Do you know more than that at Arsenal?

No. Remember, I told you when we got to Arsenal. You know what I mean?

No, I know, but when you were there, I'm on about when you were there for a few years

and you were like doing the business.

No, even when I was flying.

Because you were there with Boracay,

all the Boracay, all them. All through there, yeah. And all the time, this is what I'm saying And I believe I could have, like, especially when I was... I got to Arsenal at 28. After that, I started to get some interest. There was some interest from... It was a Palmer. I think it was a Sampdoria.

Stuff like that. And you start to think about it, because I'm thinking, I'm not earning nowhere near what I should be earning at Arsenal. And even when I went to Arsenal, It worked out to about three, four hundred pounds more a week than I was at fucking Palace. And Palace offered me three times what Arsenal would have offered me to stay. And I said, no, I'll go.

Because like you, Gary, I just wanted to go and be there. I wanted to be there and feel like it's going to change. It didn't change.

Yeah, don't...

It didn't change. I wish I went in with an agent.

He regrets not having an agent sometimes, but you have to have the right agent as well. That's the thing. You just want people to fight for you.

I wouldn't be able to go in like Gary. I probably would go in like you with an accountant who knows what's going on. But I don't think I'd have been able to go in there and fight for myself. I didn't have that kind of mouth. Some people are good negotiators. really good, don't get me wrong. But you have to get them to fight with. That's playing well. You know how it made me feel in the end? It didn't make me feel like I was at the time,

when I was a striker at the time, being at that level, where I know what the other strikers would have been on that. I didn't feel... Why? Because I didn't feel what Shira was doing, but I was there. I was up there in all those lists, those goal scoring lists.

You know, before you... You know, you're talking about, sort of, it takes me back. I keep going back to 2005 and you're talking about the age. I said, obviously, the Benitez thing brought me into the office. And what you said about Ferguson there, I said to Benitez, I remember he said to me, we can't up your money type of thing.

that's what we... I remember when I'm...

Because maybe he admired you as well, I think you have to fight your corner. I obviously was like called it's not being greedy it's called self-worth, what you think it's worth and I think managers I remember trying to sign

players when I was a manager and I'm hearing what they're asking for and deep Deep down, I admire these lads, I tell you. Good on you. They'll pay you as less as they can, won't they?

Yeah.

So unless you actually stand up and say, right, well, this is what I'm worth, actually. This is what other players at your level are getting paid around the world. And it tended to be outside of England where they were paid more. You know what, when I had that problem with Bruce Riok, when I had that problem with Bruce Rioch, when I had that problem with...

Glen Odo was at Chelsea at the time, and Chelsea offered me double and more what I was on at Arsenal.

But it wasn't in your soul.

That's the thing, so I'm thinking to myself... You can't move for money. If you move for money, you're dead. In the end, you know, it's just... Can you imagine if I did? It would have been a nightmare. It would have been the biggest regret of my life.

Righty, you wouldn't be here now.

Probably not.

Honestly, part of his soul died.

No, I'm serious. If you'd have played for Chelsea, you wouldn't be sitting there now. He wouldn't have picked you out.

To be fair, Jordan's a good example. Jordan, to be fair, obviously went to Saudi, but he will feel, because he's a good guy and he's a good man, he'll have thought, and he won't have enjoyed it. I think when you want that sort of post-football career and you want to make sure, of course, you'd like to negotiate the best contracts and go and get the most money out of them,

and to be fair, lads around this table have obviously done that, maybe right you didn't, maybe I didn't, but you couldn't leave the club for more money. You don't do that, that's ridiculous. I mean, unless you think it's an equal club whereby... but you couldn't have gone to Chelsea with

your love for Arsenal. And then you lose that thing that you're talking about, I always look at Jordan. I spoke to Jordan at the time, he wasn't going to be in the team, Klopp was bringing new midfielders in Jordan Henderson would still be doing what that Endo was doing for Liverpool now

Yeah, yeah

And he would have got the big send-off and I always think of Jordan, I just think, oh He missed something at the end of it, he still thought of as a brilliant Liverpool captain I was okay with Jordan going, Carragher, I was okay with Jordan going You're the captain in the club who lifted every trophy. You missed that thing at the end of the season, getting a really big... I was OK with Jordan going, but obviously as he gets over there, he's not felt it himself, has he?

That's the thing.

I was OK with him going. If you can get a life-changing amount of money, and I think he would have done some good with that money, I think he would have for clubs and contracts. And I know this player, I won't mention his name, he told me he went to United years ago, back in the day, and he was due negotiating

with Martin Edwards, I think in Ferguson. He says, I want my Brian Robsons on. They were like, oh no, and they went, no, I want, and they went, all right, you sitting down with Robbo going, yeah I got what you got, that's what I negotiated. And he went, what did they give you? And he went, I gave you that.

They gave him that. And he went, I'm on a way more than that.

LAUGHTER

He just believed what they said to him. They give you a Brian Robertson's game.

Because it was the number he was happy with. Same to me. This episode of Stick To Football is brought to you by Armed Clothing. We'll finish with, there's some boxing fans around the table and Jake Paul versus Anthony Joshua.

Jeez.

What do we think of that?

You know something?

Are we getting to the point of ridiculousness or?

If...

Well it's coming off with a Tyson fight because we don't know what happened. It felt fixed because Tyson could have...

If it's not fixed... Yeah, if it's not fixed, then it's ridiculous. I don't know how it's being passed.

It shouldn't be in there with him. It's crazy. If Joshua goes for him... Did you see what he did to Ngannou?

Did you see what he did to Ngannou? Is that a bit like what we were talking before about going to Saudi? Is that almost like a... Are we saying now Joshua's like... Is that almost like him going to Saudi as a footballer? Do you know what I mean? So, I can't take... I mean, Joshua's serious now, he's like a world title sort of... It's almost like if he's come to the end of his career, fine,

he's gonna get him on, Gal. We've got to get him on. Make a call. When he fought Nganu, it's the same thing, obviously.

Yeah, loads of money.

Jake Paul's a better boxer probably than Nganu is. But he's just not... Size difference, everything about the fight is just wrong.

Listen, if... I think, fair, go and get your money. I've used respect for boxers, but all that stuff, that carry-on is ridiculous.

He must fancy himself, Jake Paul. He must feel he's got a boxer's, like a puncher's chart, if he's got that, because we've seen with Antti Joshua, if you catch him, he's gone. But at the same time, if Antti Joshua puts a couple of combinations on him,

catches him, it could be dangerous for him. There's different levels to boxing. It's alright to fight Tommy Fiore and whatever, but it's a similar size. To go and fight Anthony Joshua, it's dangerous. If something seriously happens to Jake Paul, it's going to be serious questions.

Boxing would be in a bad place. I watched a Ben Eubank fight on Saturday night. There was something I felt uncomfortable in that fight about the rehydration stuff that Eubanks doing and how gaunt he looked.

He did look gaunt, yeah.

I just thought, how the fight played out, you think, it's not right that is it? There's something just a bit like...

But if it's just again about money for somebody's fighters, I have huge respect for boxers. We go back in the 80s when the great boxers were fighting the other great boxers, that's where your legacy is built. But these lads now fighting these fights when it's just about money. That can't be right either.

It's about footballers, if you're moving just for money,

that can't be right.

The reason you're talking about that, Roy, it feels like when you go back to boxing, we all go back to, most of us are old enough, to go back to the 80s and Hagler and Henes and all, they've got that legacy because them great fighters were actually fighting each other. And sometimes it's not about, you forget who won. It was just like, it was an unbelievable boxing match.

But when you see this, what it is now, a little bit, it is, and listen, I go into the Rotunda, I train, and you see the boxers and some of them, most of them don't earn good money. fighting trying to get to the top. Yeah, it's not easy. They have to take it. It just feels like it's lost something. How can it be in a situation where Anthony Joshua is fighting a YouTuber, but he's never fought Tyson Fury?

Yeah.

How can that happen? How is that allowed to happen in boxing? These two sort of big fighters have never fought.

I just, it pisses me off a little bit, to be honest. It's like you, man. I didn't want to see that fight no more.

Which one?

It shouldn't have happened years ago. It shouldn't be allowed not to happen.

There's too many belts as well.

Yeah, 100%.

Right, that's it. End of the episode. Well done, everyone. Well done, everyone.

Well done. Good stuff, Kel.