XAVIER DUPONT DE LIGONNÈS : SECTE, FUITE AUX USA, CAVALE… LES RÉVÉLATIONS DE SON MEILLEUR AMI

Xavier is just a guy who killed his family. He will put all his crimes in place, he delivers his children from shame, he saves them in a way. He loves his children, he loves Agnes. And we must not forget that he was a good father.

But after a while, he will have to make a choice. Xavier Dupont de Ligonnès is the main suspect in the Nantes murder. Five people were found dead under the terrace of the family home. If he can't leave his family, if he's not the man who leaves, it's his family who's going to leave him. Someone who kills his whole family usually kills himself right after. He thought he would never find the bodies.

How does he do when he finds himself in front of the mirror and sees this family, his children, that he loved? How can he live with that? That's the big question. I'm not the right person, I'm not a lawyer, I'm not a judge. I'm a friend. Hello, my name is Bruno and I'm a friend of Xavier's youth, whom I met when I was 16. We were best friends in the world for decades.

And then what happened happened, this incredible criminal case. I'm going to tell you a little bit about my journey, the investigation, where I think Xavier is hiding, and I'm going to tell you all about it in detail, for the people.

Hello everyone, today, an exceptional show on the case Xavier Dupont de Ligonnès, since we are receiving his best friend Bruno. As a reminder, in 2011, the whole Ligonnès family was found dead. His wife and his four children were found dead at their home, hidden under the terrace of their house in Nantes, and he disappeared without leaving a trace. A few days earlier, he had sent letters to his relatives

to make them believe that he had left the country in a hurry, even mentioning a secret mission. And for more than 15 years, no one really knows what he has become, where he is, is it a suicide, a trip abroad? His best friend Bruno Ligonnès.

You met him in all his privacy. But first, I want to know, is he alive?

Yes, I mean, as a Cartesian, since he disappeared in 2011, we have no sound, no image. But I'm sure he's alive and probably hiding in the United States. Why wouldn't he have died?

Because when you see the operational mode of these crimes, a year before, you understand. I knew him well. He was someone who was more on the sunny side. He didn't want to die. And usually, when you talk to the police or the police,

someone who kills his whole family usually kills himself right after. He thought he'd never find the bodies. That's why he made that mistake, and that's why I think he ran away, and he's hiding somewhere, and he's alive.

What mistakes did Xavier make, in your opinion?

Why did Xavier make mistakes? Because he's not a criminal. He's a desperate guy, who goes to the police, who does anything. First, because he has a supreme vanity. He has a pride that makes him, I think it also also because of his education. He said, I, the count of Ligonnès, will confront the police, the police, the police. Don't be afraid, you'll never find me.

That's what he said in his letter, you'll never find me. He's not afraid of anything. He puts all his scenario, and his scenario worked. Because in 2026, we still haven't found him. Where is he? Where is he hiding? He still managed to do something really strong.

When the family disappears, a week later, the family, the close circle, receives a letter. The famous letter, Hi, hello everyone, where Xavier announces to all his relatives that they have been exfiltrated by the Americans, by the DEA,

the American Stub Brigade, in the United States. So that's why they said, or at least they are facing exfiltration. But in this letter, if you want us to arrive at the family, and especially on the side of Agnes, Xavier's wife, the family in danger, it's not credible for a second. And Xavier makes three mistakes that will be fatal to him in this letter.

The first is the fact of saying, I'm an agent, I work for the Americans, in the drug world, you can't imagine Xavier in a nightclub, it's absolutely unbelievable, especially that we can verify that with the Quai d'Orsay, with the Ministry of the Interior, with the DGSE,

whether a French family was exfiltrated from 6 people. That's not credible. The second thing is that 6 months before the crimes, Xavier inherited his father's Vandelloriff carbine, Uber. Obviously, this carbine is the weapon of crime. And in this letter, Xavier, if you will,

he distributes the roles, he ends up paying the insurance, the refrigerators, the children's guitar, all the furniture will be given to one and the other, the dogs were given to friends, in short, the dogs will be given to friends, in short, he distributes the roles a bit,

so he talks about everything, except one thing, the rifle, the 22-round rifle. And why doesn't he talk about it? While everyone has seen this rifle, since it was registered with his children in a shooting club. Why doesn't he talk about it?

Well, it's a lie by omission, that is, it's the weapon of crime. And the third thing, at the end of the letter, he says, and for all the boxing under the terrace, all the mess, all the disorder, it's not worth touching it, it was there that we arrived. And obviously, it's under the terrace that we will discover the bodies.

So tell us a little about Xavier, is he really your best friend?

If you want, Xavier, that's why it's a story that touches me a lot. He was a friend of my youth, we met when I was 16. I had just arrived in Versailles, because my father was a military colonel. He was named after Versailles, so we have a new house. I was enrolled in a new school, the Saint-Exupéry College, which is a Catholic school. At the bottom of the classroom, there's an office with a guy who's a little girl, with a lot of money, a good face.

And I see his classmate, there's Elvis' picture. Elvis died a month before, he was my friend. And he smiles at me and says, « It's you, Stavandra? » I say, « Yeah, welcome to the club ». And he says, « Xavier Ligones ».

And he's my neighbor, so We became best friends and we live in the same street. We have the same motorbike, the same ideals, Elvis, the Beach Boys. You know, it's the big sentence, because it was him, because it was me.

Could you describe Xavier a little bit, his personality?

He's a charming boy, almost shy, on the side, but he's a generous boy, but he's a generous guy, he's got a lot of humor, he's got a pretty artistic temperament. He's very sensitive to music, books, literature. We have a bit of an ideal of chivalry, it's our education, we're 16, you know, Catholic, Versailles, Aristotle.

But he's a very generous person. If you want, he marked my family,. My mother loved him, my sister... He's really someone... I'm telling you, he's really... He's because he was my friend. So...

It's hard to explain why we love people. It's a kind of friendly spark that will last for years. Even if we'll lose sight of each other, but great friendships are like great loves. You can spend 2 or 3 years together and call each other,

and boom, it's like it was yesterday. Then we had the love of America, the United States. We wanted to change lives. I was already interested in cinema, writing. Xavier wanted to go on adventures, so we shared all that. We had an ideal that was very pure, very rock'n'roll.

Did you already share secrets with him?

What's quite surprising is that already at that time, he was part of his mother's sect, the Philadelphia prayer group. He told me about it. He said, you know, Mom, she has visions, Mom, she's a bit mystical, but if you want, in the Catholic origin, there are always mystics, whether it's the priest Epio or Bernadette de Soubirous, who saw the Virgin at Lourdes. So it's part of the culture, and he said it with a lot of love. I made my first escape, precisely that year, when I was 16. I was angry with my parents, and the first family that picked me up was the Illygonese, you see, it was Xavier's mother. So I was quite attached to them. It was a very warm family.

If we had chosen each other, it's because I loved the guy he was. There was no violence. There was no violence, no aggressiveness. He was a cool guy. A super cool guy.

When you think of Xavier today, I imagine you also think of his wife Agnes, his four children, Arthur, Thomas, Anne, Benoît. If since 2011, I also think of his wife Agnès, his four children, Arthur, Thomas, Anne, Benoît.

If since 2011, I am on the same line, it is for two reasons. The first is to bring justice. We must not forget that a family was murdered. We stole five lives, Agnès' life, who was 50 years old, Arthur's life, who was 20 years old, Thomas, 18 years old, Anne, 16 years old, and Benoît, 13 years old. They were robbed of their lives, and for the moment, they were not given justice. So, as long as I have a breath of life, I will do what is in my power

to give justice to Agnès. We don't go to the prescription saying, that's it, it's over, get out of here, we didn't find the culprits or the accomplices. That's the second thing, as I have the firm conviction, the intuition that Xavier is alive,

is to find him, to put him in front of his crimes. So obviously with the terrible idea that he is in denial, that he says to me, eyes in the eyes, but you know Bruno, I have nothing to do with his crimes, it would be terrible. But I wouldn't be surprised if he told me that, when we see the family context, when we see, and the mother, Geneviève, who has just left us, peace of mind, and the little sister, Christine, who dares to say to justice, these are not the bodies we found on the terrace.

So who are these five bodies?

Yes, because the mother and sister of Xavier are convinced that the family has left and that they have absolutely not been killed.

First, there are five bodies, there are three different DNA, there is the DNA of danger, that Agnes' room, the mother. There is Arthur's DNA, because Arthur, Xavier, was not Arthur's father. Arthur's father was called François. And then the three children, who are the DNA of Audanger and Ligoness. You think that the scientific police, they did their job. The police are honest people, they are family fathers.

If you want, it was such a tragedy, the Nantes case, the crimes in Nantes, that all the police, the police, the prosecutor Xavier Ronsin, they did their job, they did it well. The same goes for the legal doctor. So the reports are there, there were the child's dental files, there was everything, DNA, blood, everything. How can a mother and a sister say that it's not the bodies?

What is it? Is it the Albanian mafia? It's nonsense. We are entering a kind of denial, a delirium, which is a period of existence, and for me, which should be condemnable. It's something that has always deeply shocked me. The second of this criminal case, for me,

it comes from the mother, because Xavier never dared to confront his mother, because at one point he wrote to his friends in letters. My greatest pain is to have been betrayed twice, betrayed by my mother, who lied to me for years. So it's a huge suffering for him, because she will build a world that is totally imaginary,

but this imaginary world, which is very strange, since it is based on the apocalypse, on the world, between the world of the living and the world of the dead, there is not a big difference, that the world is divided into two humanities, that of prey and that of predators. When he is going to kill his family, when he is going to put in place all his crimes, he delivers his children from shame, he saves them in a way.

So, if you want, it's a crime that is, we can say, a crime almost religious. And that, necessarily, it comes from the mother. It is she who will arm her arm. I think that's also the real problem of Xavier, it's that he never dared

to confront his mother. Tell her, but mom, why did you tell me all these lies? Because he built on it. And what he does is why he had a brain that was deviant, in denial. Denial of his sister and his mother, who will say,

well no, but it's not the body under the terrace. They are alive, they were exfiltrated to the United States. So, here is the...

How was Xavier with his children? What kind of dad was he?

Xavier loved his family. That's why when we talk about... There are about 150, 200 crimes, what we call altruistic crimes. That's a theory that was invented by the Americans. That is, you kill your family.

You kill your family, but because you love them and you want to protect them from shame, decadence, that's it. And that Xavier, when he makes the choice to suppress his family, as he can't leave them, because his father left his family a few years before,

and for him it was a terrible pain...

His parents were divorced, is that what you mean?

No, never! In Versailles, you don't divorce. You don't divorce. Because for years, when we met at 16, I could see that the father wasn't there. He told me, my father travels to Africa, he's an adventurer. It's true that he's an adventurer, his father.

I knew him, he was a guy, he was a hooligan, he was a seducer. Hubert de Ligonnès, he had a lot of attitude. But he left the family home very early. Xavier already had a very bad reputation in his bad reputation in Agnès' family. He's a loser. He's a guy who started a company that never worked. He taxed, he abused Agnès' heritage. Agnès was a family with money.

There was a theater in Paris. And Agnès, when you talk about it, it's normal. In couples, sometimes you marry a woman who has money. It's normal, Xavier and Agnès shared everything. But it was mostly Agnès who shared a lot. At one point she couldn't take it anymore that her legacy was going to smoke to finance Xavier's companies, even if Xavier was still working.

Everything will go live, in peanuts, the last decade, that is, 2003, when the family arrives in Nantes, and 2011, the time of crimes. Because terrible things are going to happen. Xavier will discover that Agnès is cheating on him. That said, he has not taken care of her for years.

He lives his life. Even if he does not cheat on her, Xavier knows that she does not care. It was not at all what he wanted,'t want to be a recognized, respected CEO, but he never was. One day, he found Agnes' computer and he realized that on his Facebook profile she exchanged messages

and he realized it was Michel Rétif. His best friend is sleeping with his wife, so that's terrible. For him, it's a descent to hell, it's a bit of a shame. Anyway, and then the second thing is that

he's going to rob his best friend's apartment. Emmanuel Turner, who lives in Nantes, like him, because Emmanuel Turner always followed Xavier, and he's going to give him the keys saying, listen, if I'm not there, if you need to go to the apartment, go ahead, and then he's going to steal And he stole Emmanuel's cash, his diamonds.

You see, you can't do that, even if he repaid Emmanuel. And the third thing, he stole his father. His father, who was in the hospital, he stole money from his account. Because he needed money, he was overindebted. He was overindebted, he had the Swiss in his pocket. He had no means to divorce.

And for him, it would have been a terrible failure. First, because he needed Agnès' money. And he didn't want to be like his father. He didn't want to... You see, Xavier, he missed his life. And he's divorcing. Agnès is going to ask him for food pension, which he can't pay. So that's why, in his psychological pattern,

he can't be the man who's going his family, it's impossible. And so, if he can't leave his family, if he's not the man who leaves, it's his family who will leave him. And that's why he's going to set up the whole criminal strategy, I mean, practically a year before the crimes, where he's going to invent this story of exfiltration in the United States. And the second question is that once he's going to kill his family, what's he going to do with the bodies?

Because the police will discover that in the week he killed his family, he has, if you want, his cell phone, he's going to hang out near the forest of Nantes. So he's looking for places. And then finally he's going to say no. The best place is under the terrace. He's going to make two mistakes. The first mistake is to set up the purchases, that is, a 100-liter trash bag,

strings, ropes, cement, and above all, hot water. And when the prosecutor and the commissioner will analyze all the bank cards, they will say, wait, the guy, but he's a guy who's going to bury bodies.

So that's the first mistake, and above all, when he's going to bury the bodies, the cement will be wet. For me, the most terrible thing, maybe, in this criminal investigation, is when two days later,

when the next day he goes to get Thomas. Thomas is his first son. He's the real Ligoness. Arthur is Agnes, she had him with someone else. Thomas is his first son. And if you want, without being snobbish, but in aristocratic families,

the name, the one who will inherit the title of count, it's important, it's Thomas, it's his son. And his son, he goes to get him at the pension, he invites him to a restaurant. I think Thomas has no news at all from his family It's important, it's Thomas, his son. And his son goes to get him at the boarding school, he invites him to a restaurant. I think Thomas has no news from his family for two days.

He says there was a car accident, I think. He says his mother was run over by a bike, well, his mother was on a bike, she was run over at the hospital. Which is not credible, because Agnes didn't ride a bike. But Thomas loves his father, why would his father lie to him? He goes to a restaurant, and Thomas was a musician,

he was an adorable boy. Thomas doesn't touch his plate, he's sick, he goes for a walk in the garden. Anyway, he always brings Xavier back to his pension, but Xavier wanted to kill him that night. So he made him take a sleeping pill

during dinner at the restaurant? And the next day, he tells her, Thomas, you have to come back to Nantes, your mom is in the hospital. And that's what's terrible, we have all the messages from Thomas and his friends. Yeah, I'm arriving at the Nantes station, it's 11pm,

Dad is coming to pick me up, he wants us to watch a movie, Midnight Express, the famous movie I saw when I was 16 with Xavier when it was released at Versailles. And at 11.15pm, no sound, no image. Thomas is asleep on the couch. His father gave him a herbal tea with semifer.

And he died. Two hours later, that's it. So Thomas is the last one, and he's the first body we'll find under the terrace, when we're going to dig up the...

In two days, Xavier doesn't say to himself, I'm killing my whole family, I'm going to save one. No. Between Sunday and Monday, he kills Agnes,

he kills Arthur, he kills Agnes, Arthur, Anne, Benoît, and his dogs Labrador. But I think there is one alive. Two days later he brings back Thomas, Thomas arrives in an empty house, where probably the bodies are. Maybe there is one dog that Grav kept alive to give a little life.

But if you want, it's logical. Xavier tells Thomas, your mom is in the hospital, Arthur sleeps at his girlfriend's, at his girlfriend's, Anne sleeps at a friend's, and Bledoin sleeps at a friend's. So that's why the house is empty. But Thomas doesn't know that he's condemned,

he only has one... Well, it's terrible.

Was the crime scene found afterwards or did he leave with it?

No, the crime scene was never found. And it's true that when he disappears in the background of the camera in 2011, in this famous hotel in Royal Bruns on Argent... In the South? Yes, in the South. It's true that he has something... Is it a staging? I would have an explanation for that.

We have the impression that it's the weapon of crime. But it's obvious that he didn't help enough. I think he threw it somewhere. Xavier wasn't stupid, he knew what he was doing. He disappeared in the camera's axis, a bit like in a movie. Especially that we saw him taking money from distributors.

But he's not right to do it. Because when he disappears in the field of the camera, no one looks for Xavier. We didn't find the bodies. he has nothing to flee, he doesn't flee anyone. At the moment, the police is trying to contact him by phone to tell him, Sir, we are looking for you, you are... And we are looking for 6 people. We didn't find the body, we are looking for 6 people. So there is no need to worry, Xavier is pretty cool.

So if you want, what is interesting is to say, OK, he puts a staging when he leaves the camera, when he leaves the hotel in the field of the camera. But what is he do at that moment? Why does he leave his car in the parking lot? He leaves his car in the parking lot because he knows that this car is numbered, it is unregistered, the police will soon find it. And indeed, the police will find it in the parking lot. And it's a family car. So as we are looking for 6 people, we say to ourselves, we are looking for the C5 with the 6 people, the Higueness family. But if you want, for now, in 2011, he's cool.

So he leaves the car in the parking lot, and he goes on foot. So what did he do after? For now, we don't know, but it's very likely, as he's not wanted, does he walk, does he go to a taxi station? Since he's not wanted, so no one knows his face.

The taxi driver Or a friend, a friend, or someone he met to exfiltrate him. Because between the moment he leaves the hotel, on April 15th, and on the 21st, we'll find the bodies, he has five days. And in five days, you can go very far. You can cross France, you can take a cargo ship to Hamburg,

you can take a plane to Italy.

And you, when you learn that there are bodies under the terrace, do you think, ok Xavier is on the run?

We know that there will be a press conference, I think it's on Thursday morning at 11am. But the day before, what we don't know, is that the commissioner and the prosecutor had the blue cards. With the show, the cement, the trash bags, the ropes,

the planks, the planks, the planks... Everything a serial killer would do to hide bodies. And so, the day before the press conference, when the prosecutor had a chat with the commissioner, he told the commissioner, well, all this stuff is not for repairing the house, so go to the garden. So he told the commissioner, send a team tomorrow morning. My press conference is at 11am.

At 8am, send the best team to the garden, try to find signs. And that's where they're going to fall under the terrace, the cement that is fresh, and they're going to find the bodies. At that moment, it's like a terrible outburst. And at 11am, when Xavier Ronsin comes to the journalists,

he says, we're on a criminal investigation and there is a body missing, it's Xavier's body. Where is the family father hiding? And of course he becomes the number one suspect. And then I tell myself, this is where it suddenly comes to my mind. I say, Xavier, he would have killed his own family. And it's not credible.

It's not credible. And then, as time goes by, I'll go into the investigation. It's going to take me 10 years. And then I'll discover Mr. Xavier Dupont, whom I don't know.

And then I'll say, oh my God.

Did you ever imagine him capable of doing that?

No, you never imagine... You know, every person in life has a secret. And Xavier... If you want, it's the question of a mistress. How could this boy I adored, practically the same education as me,

sect, religion, all that, how could he think that the best solution to save his life is to kill his family, the people he loved the most in the world? You can't understand that, it's incomprehensible. It's tragic, by the way, it's a tragic question.

And the second question was that I thought when I learned very quickly that the family had disappeared and that we found the bodies, the fundamental question, which is the question of my book, La Mie Impossible, is when you love someone, love or friendship, do you set a limit? Do you say, it's going too far, he's no longer my friend?

For me, it's not my education. When we love people, we go all the way. And that's also the question that upsets what I'm obsessed with, finding Xavier again. Finding myself in front of him and saying, Xavier, what have you done? Why did you do that? And he answers me in the eyes.

That's what I'm after.

Do you think it's the money that pushed him to do that? Or the shame, or the desire to start over, to start from scratch?

It's all this mix, it's a man who doesn't stop putting temporary bandages on wounds that will never heal. That come from childhood, from his mother's education, from religious education,

from the fact that he was lied to. It's a family that built itself in lies. And after a while, if you want, it's an image that is seen in the ice, that crumbles, that falls into pieces. And he has to find a solution. Because he had the solution.

Because finally, when you analyze things as they are, Xavier has 130, 130,000 euros, 130,000 euros in debt. For a guy like Xavier, it's not huge. He's still young, he's 50 years old, he can work. And especially Agnès, she has a large family, there are houses, there are castles. The children are practically out of business.

Arthur works. Agnès, Xavier would say to Agnès, listen, we're going to separate, in the amiable way, without saying anything. You live your life, you go back to your family home, drowned in this river.

The children are studying. There is no problem, There are hundreds of families in France who live like that, where parents separate the friendly. Xavier would have found a job. He would have been re-educated, little by little. There was no dead man.

And why did Xavier suddenly... And that's the real reason. Why did he choose this solution, saying, no, no, I'm going to suppress my family. Why did he decide that? Why all of a sudden, in his intellectual mechanics, he will say it's the best solution? Because he can't lose face.

He wasn't raised to lose face. And since he was raised as an elected representative, that's what I'm telling you, I'm not going to leave my family. It's my family that's going to leave me and I'm going to cover it all up with a huge lie. We were exfiltrated to the United States by the DA. Yes, because the letter, the cards, the show, the 500 liters bags, it doesn't make sense. And he's dealing with, even in 2011, with cops who know the story.

You don't tell stories to guys, you see.

When you heard the news, were you surprised?

No, but when I was told in early April, so from April 4, 5, 5, 6, that a family had disappeared, he was right. We're in France, it's a free country. And Xavier was a traveling pigeon, he was a guy who had traveled a lot.

And even before the crimes, he liked the idea, he had told Emmanuel Turner, that they would probably go to Australia. So they have the right to go, a family has the right to travel. So if you want, between the 3rd and the 9th of April, when the letter will arrive in the family, the family has disappeared,

there is no place to worry. There is just the family who will call the police saying we have no news, yes, but then they have the right. And so, there is no place to worry.

Your theory is that he is in San Francisco.

I am a Cartesian, so if you want, we focus on what is real, credible and verified. For now, we are all in the black. Since 2011, we have no more sound, no more images on what happened to Xavier Ligonnès.

There was the Glasgow case in Scotland, it was not him. Every time you have people who say, we saw him, we did not see him. The only testimony that happened to me a little less than 5 or 6 years ago was a family from Nantes. They knew Xavier very well

because before arriving in Nantes Xavier was going to live in Pornic for 3 years. He rented his house to this family. So they knew this family very well and they knew him very well because every month he paid their rent, ruby on the nail.

In 2011, there were crimes. In 2015, this family, I'm not going to give their name, of course, but they are six children, they go to San Francisco because the eldest of the family works for Hubert, he is an IT engineer. And this family, they are in the Chinese neighborhood. They're walking around, and the mother, who's called Catherine, says at some point, I don't know, she's buying food, I don't know,

she's in a line, there's a guy behind her who's backing up, who's pushing her, who's turning around, and she, if you want to look into her eyes, she sees, she sees who? She sees eyes, you can see that she sees Xavier. Xavier recognizes her, they know each other very well. Xavier goes back and they disappear in the corridor. End of story.

They never talked about it. She is very shocked because Xavier has been missing for 2, 3, 4 years. But she talks about it to her children who are there. Because her children can see that... End of story. And obviously, when they go back to Nantes, they won't talk about it, for two reasons.

The first one, what will they say to the police? We were in San Francisco, we came across Ligoness, do you have pictures? No. Are you sure it's him? It's not credible, especially since Xavier is nowhere to be seen. And the second thing is that when you talk to the police or the police station, three days later, you have the journalists at your place.

And it's a very discreet family, a family of notaries, we don't talk about it. And yet we put pressure on this family. Tell me, tell me simply, is it lard or pig? And in addition, the first witness, this famous Catherine, she has been dead since then, she has been sick. So, I never had the certainty.

I put it with a question mark. But for me there is a credibility in the sense where the very close who told me the story, they never questioned the fact that it was a credible story, since it was in the family circle, they were joking a little, but it was really what had happened.

But she didn't try to call him, to tell him, to call Xavier, to call him, she was afraid.

No, she wasn't afraid, she wasn't afraid, she said, no, but above all, you think the guy is dead, you think the guy is dead, and he's right there in front of you. And for me, there's something to be verified from there. For me, the San Francisco track,

is a track that shouldn't be left behind. Or at least with what we call, you know, the facial recognition software, especially what Xavier liked, the country, the country festivals, the classic arts, the old car exhibitions of the 50s and 60s,

that's all Xavier loved. It's something that should be checked.

Yes, you think he's in the United States because it's easy there, he's not sought after, he loved the country,

he loved the country. He visited 48 states out of 50. So he spoke the language. And in the United States, especially, because there is a kind of idiotic thing when you talk to people about the case, it's that they say, yeah, but you know, a horse, it costs a lot. A horse, it costs a lot.

When you're wanted by Mossad. Xavier is just a guy who killed his family. He is in 6th or 7th position. He is not even on the FBI's list of wanted people. The Americans don't care about Xavier. If tomorrow he is arrested because he went too fast,

he will pay a fine and that's it. There is no extradition. So Xavier doesn't interest anyone. So his ride can last for another 15 years. And besides, on the American Ligoness, the famous John List, who also killed his family and was found 17 years later, you see, you sleep well.

The only thing is, if we don't get his portrait old, there must be a stake. The French justice must has to put pressure. But for now, that's not the case. They have too many problems with terrorism, with drug traffickers. Nobody cares about their life.

When I think of our 16, our 26, our 36, our 46 years old, Xavier was on the side of the light. I also think that's why he was my boyfriend. He's not a guy't want to die. The only question is how he does in the evening when he brushes his teeth, how he does when he sees himself in front of the mirror and sees his family and children he loved. How can he live with that? That's the big question.

How can he say, I'm the murderer of my family, what I did is abominable, unforgivable. How can he live with that? Either he has a mental switch, or he does something that few people do in life. He does a reset. He reprograms himself.

And that is only possible with the education he got from his mother. I mean, I go from the other side of the mirror. I do a reset, I become another character. So yes, I think he redid his life. I think he I become another character. So yes, I think he redid his life. I think he seduced another woman. If this woman says,

it's funny, you look a lot like a Frenchman that is searched everywhere. And here Xavier, if you want, he has the mental power and imagination to say, yes, yes, I know, I know, it's me. We killed my whole family.

If I give up in France, they will murder me too, it's a high cost.

Do you think you will have signs of him one day?

I tell myself that Xavier is like me, he is on the internet, that's why I testify today, that's why I write books, that's why I participate in a lot of things, I keep talking to him. I kept... you see, this thread between him and me. Why? Because I was trying to wake up in him this 16-year-old boy that I knew and who was my friend. It's as stupid as that. And I tell myself that maybe

where he is, one day he will listen to this voice, he will say to himself, I have to face my crimes, I have to face justice. Would you like him to come back? I'm ready to take the first plane to go get him.

If you have a sign of life right now, what would you do?

It's already planned.

You're not going to the police?

No, because I'm not the good God, I'm not a lawyer, I'm not a judge. I'm a friend. So I stay on this profile. I tell him, Xavier, come back with, take responsibility for your crimes, you're my friend, I'm ready to listen to you because I want to understand, and not only for me, for the justice of men. Why this guy, you see, there are people who are at the end of the road, who kill their families,

but we understand why, and generally they kill each other afterwards. But Xavier doesn't. Xavier had all the cards in hand to not kill his family, so I need him to explain to me why. But my hantise, you know, it would be like if he were in my eyes and he were saying to me Bruno, I have to tell you something,

it's not me, it's not me who killed my family. He would be capable of that, you see. That he would be in total denial, like his mother was, like his sister, it's not the squirrel under the terrace. Xavier tells me, no Bruno, I assure you, it's not me who killed my family.

And it could become your friend again?

I tell myself, yes, I tell myself, because you have to go further than... I mean, I'm a Christian, let's say more in the sense... the Greek etymology, Christian, it means Christos, Christos means the witness.

And I am the witness of our friendship, so I need to understand, you see. Yes, to go see him in prison, you see, to reconstruct the film, so that he explains to me why he killed his family. You can't put that aside, it's impossible. It's a duty.

If you could send him a message right now, what would you say?

Be a man, assume your crimes, give yourself justice, go all the way to the end of why you were raised in a way of tolerance, of religion, of love for others. Become the Xavier I knew, this boy who was sensitive, generous, honest. Give yourself a chance to become a human being again, with a face of a man worthy of that name,

and not an assassin who is hiding somewhere and who doesn't take responsibility for his crimes.

Thank you, Bueno. Thank you, Bueno.

Thank you.